No paingiver is inaccurate and only measures who was faster it's not an accurate measure we use a program called ACT -advanced combat tracker
Yes at the level you are talking about CN and edemo -low end content .
It's a pretty even field and anyone can come out on top.
A lot of times you may see someone with 2500 gear score that could have rank12 bonded companions which would destroy someone with a 3500 gear score without. We are speaking of FBI ,MSVA,SPC level content where a TR will Never keep up with a CW or GWF of equal gear and skill.
And as far as stealth you are talking pvp builds - in pvp yes TR still can troll with the best of them and as long as they aren't hitting or damaging mobs stealth can last .
In pvp against players things work much diff.
In pve if you HAMSTER it will knock you outta stealth.besides bosses and most endgame mobs can see through stealth it also does not reset Aggro.
I am at a BiS level and can go in random pugs and smash it.
Or pvp with 2 members of our guild vs 20 randoms in DV and win ..but this has to do with severely outgearing people and skill level rather than class.
And don't get me wrong I will occasionally run across someone from crusaders or lotus guilds that will kick my teeth in lol I fought a GF the other day 1v1 that had 300k health I was hitting him with 185k shocking executions ,another 70k CB and he would heal right thru it bull rush me and knock my liver out.so in pvp anyone can top anyone class only matters when you have 2people of the same gear level /skill level
TR hasn't been touched for about 6 mods now and is not competitive at end game level .
But is still mega fun to play as it's learning curve is so much greater than other classes .
I have 4 other classes at the 4K level and love TR and wouldn't give him up ever but I won't delude myself into thinking he can keep up with other classes either .so I try to spec things and play to help the group even gear and mount bonuses that help my party rather than just damage cause theirs others that can do that better..
If you doubt this....take a TR and try to get in a FBI run see if they will take you over a CW or GWF .
My friend. have you notice that during enchant testing time, we used test weapons, with fixed 100 dmg.. Why do u think we used them? To make sure all players would had same weapon stats. Different ranked weapons, different arti weapons type could interfere in testings.. Same goes for class testings. You remove gear, make sure u don't have boons, companions, mounts, and other non class related elements. And put x class with his feats, encounters, at wills, daily powers and class features vs other class which also don't have any non class related buffing elements.
Put on uncommon non arti gear set on TR and par against GWF, thats how testings are done. Not like, ohh look GF outdps me in FBI dungeon. And latter we found that u had like lesser bonding runestones while GF had r12 bondings + orcus arti set. Which ends have no relation with TR class at all.
My mentioned TR's where not overgeared compared to remaining groups. I don't put in comparison like 4k++++ vs ~2.5k GS.. Not my style.
Also question, what do u expect. TR bulldoze through dungeon? In non of my known mmorpg games, assasin type/class characters where not ment play otherway than being sneaky, tricky.
Always same classic way> You get behind enemy>, stab in back>, get out in safe position>repeat. Assasins/rogues are not class which bulldozing through game contents..
As for got hit while u in stealth by boss. Well now question for you, stealth is dodge mechanic or not? Last time I checked it's not. It's class mechanic. It's like SW's curse. And it's not ment like u go stealth, Give middle finger to any monsters and take them out while smoking weed. Imagine you play with DC, and x class player enter your group. your dc receive hits, while that x class player jump in hide(stealth) and receive no hits. While he still hit enemies.. What kind reaction u will have? With DC u dodge incoming hit, while that player give middle finger to enemies.
I played one cool game which name I will not write.. There where also rogues classes(3 of them) All had skill(power) hide(stealth). But once you activate it, you are invisible for 10s. However you can't hit. If happens u land any hit, you lose stealth. So what we did? We used it wise, we use hide power to get close to enemy, get combat advantage and strike in right moment. rather HIDE>brainless attack.
But I think I am not in position to convince you anyways.. So more less I will had make TR and do content runs... Last time I was told templock sucks, but it's seems its fine.. I was told heal DC sucks, but it where fine.. I was told HR sucks, it where fine.. Oh well it's time for TR.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Lol my friend.. I suggest you go to our tr balancing thread in which 5 of the best players in the game will tell you Also testing balance by taking off all boons gear is uh ... wow!! I won't even say anything on this as it shows me a lot without even saying anything at all..
Stealth and stuns boss mobs and most end game mobs are immune to it bro hide to get combat advantage??? We always have combat advantage coming out of stealth... have you ever even played a TR! we have timed our runs time and time again using different players.. 4 support 1dps Average time 17-20 mins,4support 1TR average time 23-25 mins this is using 25 different players or rather groups(this was to make sure it wasn't just the player. It rather the class itself .I can send you the unedited videos .
We like to show and prove rather than just talk and tell so like I said to others I can invite your rogue on our next FBI speed run and you can see how you hold up against our GWF and CW ...if you can come within 50% of total damage I would be surprised. I can usually tell what class people play by what they say . I would guess you are a GWF and don't worry I don't think they should be nerfed I just think TR needs a buff as do most experienced players in the game right now . We constantly see in looking for group chat. " lf1m hdps no TR please " Why if you say TR is fine does every group want everything but? Anyways .. I will leave you to your thread I see we are at very different levels as far as gameplay.
"Sometimes it is better to stay quiet and have people think you crazy than to open your mouth and prove that you really are."
Try out different builds? Lol Another non TR player obviously ... Uh... yeah we only have one viable build at the moment and as far as running with elitist groups I am lucky enough to be part of an amazing endgame alliance that will bring us along even though we are not optimal class but sucks for others not as lucky But thanx for all your insight and knowledge guys ..
But again my offer is always open to come on a run with us so you can see for yourself or show all of us these mad skills that you may possess that none of us do.
I personally enjoy my current master infiltrator saboteur trickster, and I don't want any of my mechanics changed.
If they want to buff up some weak powers or make bait and switch fight and deal damage good.
If they want to speed up the atrack animation for gloaming strike good.
If they want to make tenacious concealment grant the entire party stealth when I stealth plus speed boost even better.
There are many little tweaks that can be done to make tr better without destroying the class.
I would say start by thinking about the above listed things.
Don't give us more dot powers...
Even MIs suck now. So outside of altering SE, there is no reason to expect a nerf. Look at the "top" TRs. Not a single one of them run solo. They are always, at the very least, dual-queued and more often than not, in a full pre
We'll likely get damage increases, hopefully they don't make us overpowered. People cry twice as hard if they get owned by something they cannot always see. Outside of that, I don't know how in depth they plan on going with a rework.
I would assume (based on the cleric changes) it's going to be very broad, not in depth . Hopefully they don't put stuff in the patch notes that they didn't actually fix like they did for clerics.
I do agree that all classes except GWF, GF and DC need damage buffs. I just do not want them to go overboard the way they did with GF. That is all....
I just want to ask you something have you played a pvp gwf? They need the largest damage buff in pvp. This is crazy hrs, trs, gfs absolutely murder everything lol. All the other classes do good damage except gfs they hit wayyyy to hard to be a "tank".
What they need to do is start making enemies in dungeons no longer totally CC immune so people can actually play their classes there the way they are supposed to be. This way when they "balance" the game they dont give them more damage to compete with melee strikers and still have the Highest CC too.
Oh wait thats what happened to the GF when they gave them HUGE DAMAGE increase to literally everything so they had so they could do their dailies easier. This is supposed to be a team game and thats SUPPOSED to be the downside of picking a gf, dc, pally or hunter ranger. But no.. they give them all damage to make it easier on them and totally mess up pvp at the same time.
Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
Cw and hr Definately don't need a buff. SW maybe, probably nerfed them a little too hard. Tr's need to be balanced, OP in pvp and under performs for the majority of TR's. Can't buff them in Pve without thinking about pvp.
Definately not trying to put other classes down, everyone who masters a class won't have an issue with underperforming.
I do agree that all classes except GWF, GF and DC need damage buffs. I just do not want them to go overboard the way they did with GF. That is all....
I just want to ask you something have you played a pvp gwf? They need the largest damage buff in pvp. This is crazy hrs, trs, gfs absolutely murder everything lol.
People are so blinded by the pain giver chart in PVE. That is why this game is so unbalanced. GWF's should do the most damage bar none. No dodge mechanic (immunity frames), 90% close range attacks, no invisibility and NO CC except dailies should.... = THE HIGHEST CLOSE RANGE DPS. even higher then combats, trs or gfs.
Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
PVE: Minus the GF's, gwf have the highest survivability of all dps. You see more gwf's soloing dungeons than any other class. Not sure you will get many on board with highest dps and survivability. The paingiver is a revolving door anyways, easy way to make $$$ off the people who chase it.
Having no utility minus battle fury, which most don't use, is a dev problem. Hopefully the can figure out what to do with the other 2 gwf's trees. The one trick pony build must get old.
PVP: Neglected and unbalanced, doesn't really matter unless the devs starts revamping it.
All classes can solo but you see more videos with gwf soloing than any other class. The point is that out of the primary dps classes, gwf has the most survivability in pve. Most other classes can take one or two hits but usually no more.
I already know your stance with the gf @defiantone99 and I for the most part agree. I'm not really considering them as a primary dps class.
All classes can solo but you see more videos with gwf soloing than any other class. The point is that out of the primary dps classes, gwf has the most survivability in pve. Most other classes can take one or two hits but usually no more.
I already know your stance with the gf @defiantone99 and I for the most part agree. I'm not really considering them as a primary dps class.
sure gwfs have a lot of suvivability in pve but in pvp we have the worst survivability... funny how the game switches up on your completely depending if you are pve or pvping lol
Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
All classes can solo but you see more videos with gwf soloing than any other class. The point is that out of the primary dps classes, gwf has the most survivability in pve. Most other classes can take one or two hits but usually no more.
I already know your stance with the gf @defiantone99 and I for the most part agree. I'm not really considering them as a primary dps class.
sure gwfs have a lot of suvivability in pve but in pvp we have the worst survivability... funny how the game switches up on your completely depending if you are pve or pvping lol
@defiantone99 I agree, the two other trees is the real problem. Im really interested in seeing what th y really do. I really don't see the gwf as an offtank unless they drastically change something. The class doesn't need a nerf or buff, just revamp the other two trees.
@trentbail21 Pvp just needs a major overhaul. It all about the "cheese"class of the month like perms CB tr, combat hr, permanent repel cw, one rotation GF and etc. I know you already knot that, but it isn't going to change anytime soon.
Someone mentioned the idea of new stats curves, probably one of the best ideas for pvp in a long time. Do this or just get rid of boons, companions and the stable from pvp all together, but it won't happen.
Lo < "Sometimes it is better to stay quiet and have people think you crazy than to open your mouth and prove that you really are."
My friend have you even read what you wrote?
The way how u evaluated TR performance itself is biggest trolling. You pick 4 supports and 1 TR, and simply wanted everything kill with single blow. Now GWF is more aoe, because due defence/deflect, HP pool. < and u fail to beat him in speed run, and thus now complain about TR performance..
TR = assasins. Thats mean best class for single target elimination. It's not ment go face2face aoe fight. yet you want opposite. master infiltrator path>name itself says, Infiltrator = sneaky assasin. Not offtank.
Also did u even though about companions, mounts and insignias interactions.. That GWF perhaps have better compiled companions that u do. Thats why I mentioned that in order to evaluate x class performance there must be no other factors than class powers and feats..
Also it's just speed run comparisson. It's not like 30 min difference. and your complains sounds like TR can't do anything at all..
Also I spoken with TR from friendlist and other TR which I know.. The ones who did end game runs. mSP, FBI, mSvardborg. And when I asked them do TR sucks in endgame content.. They laugh. Most of them assured that there is not case that TR can't do neither laging way behind others.. It's simply require slightly different gameplay than usuall Dungeon bulldozing.
I am not against TR rebalancing, yet I prefer rebalancing between TR builds itselfs.. To make other builds more viable. But not brainless buffing.. Also before that, We need proper class performance evaluation. feats, simple non arti gear. No enchants. No boons, no campaign boons. No mounts, no insignias, no companions.. TO see core of TR performance. Not performance of faill builds..
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
@bloodyspamer Yeah I won't really get into it as it's obvious you have never played a TR .
And any TR you spoke to that says we are comparable to other Dps in endgame content is high!
Like I said go to our TR balancing thread where you will see the feedback from James ,Blur, quilla,Mike Undoubtably THE best TRs in the game . And no we are all at the same BiS level where you can't do anything else to squeak out any more damage.
But again like I said 5x Bring your best TR we will invite him on a run and show you how horribly mistaken you are . Also 30 min difference??? What the hell are you talking about ? It's about a 3 min difference With pvp it's a different story TR is definitely viable in pvp maybe not against a GF or a properly spec HR I have a respectable 5357 kill 1070 death 5-1 ratio not the best pvper or the worst .. and I do not have complaints about TR in pvp only in PVE
And yes I have also played rogue in other MMOs in world first guilds like Built Horde Tough and Envy but comparing rogue in WoW to rogue in Neverwinter is apples and oranges as they are not even close to similar mechanic wise or class style And no we don't expect TR to bulldoze thru dungeons or have amazing epic solo videos like GF or GWF or CW We have paper armor at best and little range or aoe. The prob is we have 1build we all use and 5 skills 99% of us use that's it! If you are using gleaming cut or shocking execution and first strike in PVE you have much to learn anyway The prob is TR is good for one thing... Dps ..that's it and we are not even the best at it While a GWF can do offtanking and dps. Or CW can CC and other capabilities as well as dps ,all these classes have multiple functions . TR does not .. So when picking dps you are of course going to pick one that adds the most to the group ..if you say not your either lying or crazy. But anyways we have a few devs that acknowledged we need more utility and buffs in PVE and even had a visit to the thread from mimic King so I am hopeful .. As far as you I really am not trying to put you down but some people you can slap em in the face with a sock and they will still say..I talked to people and they laughed and told me it's not a sock. So if you don't believe me,or the devs that posted,or the top players that make the builds that's your TRs are using or the community acknowledged best players of the TR class .. Then it's obvious there is no convincing you ..but I will invite you to any content you pick and show you the skill difference between us if be that will convince you it's def not the player in the chair as you say..
@ Demon ,Dave ,m1ke you are right there is no winning here lol
Tanky at the cost of major dps, gwf can almost have the best of both worlds. 30% DR with unstoppable (for what I remember), temp hit points on top of a negation. Most use azures in defense slot, pretty much getting to the DR cap.
Any skilled player can solo a dungeon regardless of class and most have survivability tools to do it. I not disagreeing with you there, what I'm saying is IMO gwf has the best survivability tools of all of the primary dps classes. You have to have some kind of trade off between surviveability and dps.
This is the main issue in Pvp. For instance, GF's, combat hr's, and some tr builds have high burst, amazing survivability tools and have amazing control. They have the best of everything without any trade offs, not balanced. The trade offs are the balance IMO.
@defiantone99 if you would just stop for 5 seconds and read what I posted, no where does it say "nerf" gwf. What I said is gwf shouldn't be top in dps and have the highest survivability. That's not balanced at all. Currently, I don't think the gwf is atop of the paingiver atm, the gwf is actually in a really good spot minus the two other useless trees. I'm Definately not person who calls for nerfs, nerfs request usually just end with Cryptic smashing a class with the nerf hammer.
The other classes have great survivability in PVE, to say GWF is special there is just wrong. Watch some solo videos of other classes. People often confuse gear and enchantments with the class. Anybody with Trans. Negation, high HP and high lifesteal can be tanky.
Do other classes tanky in pve due life steal, Well its yes and no in same time. Yes, because when facing group of trash monsters, even receive hits, their lost HP gets covered due Life steal. And it's looks like CW, SW, HR, TR, GWF can tank easily.. Now line NO< it's because. Lets say u facing group of monsters, like 5 of them. Each of them deal dmg which takes 20% of your max HP. If one of them hit it's not big deal. You hit them all 5, triggering life steal, and restoring own HP pool fast enough and you can mess up with these mobs all day/night. Even if 2 of them would land hit, it would not be problem..
However if 4 of them or all 5 of them land hit in same moment... Then even if you would have gazilion amount of life steal and life steal severity.. It will not help you.. U die.
Same goes for regeneration like SB"s borrowed time.. Players think due this class feature SB is tanky.. Well against trash mobs yes. But even if u have gazilion life steal, gazilion HP regeneration per 2s. That will not help u survive strong single hit. Thus players die, and latter you read posts, in x dungeon players got oneshot. And all problem is simply.. They pick ~5k defence,, 0~200 deflect. 9k life steal.. But such set up don't help you survive strong impacts.
What makes GWF more special than other classes.. Well by nature it's ment to be face2face, melee fighter. And design for such class is classic.. High/top dmg in close range. High HP pool Higher than average Defence,
Combined with life steal it's obvious that make gwf more tanky than other non tank class.
However as design in most mmorpg games such class have weakness. Slow, weak against ranged.
Here in neverwinter GWF have dash, and also there is no separate magic and physical damage.. So part of design weakness lacking make less reasons pick other class, and also increase hatred toward GWF.. And this situation is nothing new, have seen in many games same problem, same argumentations, hatreds and so one. --------------------------
Now to balance GWF I think developers should reevaluate some stuffs.. Firstly if u increase more offensive stats, you should gave up some defensive.. I know lot of GWF guys would rage on me for such talks.. But hear me out.. I think 3 trees should be 1) glasscanon = high dmg =low survivability, thats mean its main role just dmg, and not ment offtank by any case. 2) balanced =mid dmg=mid survivability , thats mean can go most stuffs solo, due ability stand against dmg which first tree can't. However can't beat glasscannon in term of dmg. 3) offtank.= thats mean highest survivability among these 3 trees, yet lowest dmg output.. This tree should be one when you go offtanking.
Now how to fix, I suggest add berserk life effect to final destroyers feat. Which increase x dmg output by percentage, yet, in same quantity give up defensive stats... Thus not allow them offtank, yet it will let them inflict more devastating dmg..
Such solution is kinda common in many games... You gain x offensive stats, and in exchange you gave up x defensive stats..
SO skilled players would be more powerfull, while suckers die more offten :P
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
This is not a nerf thread. As I can see in the link I posted, I know you want to nerf GWF. You are not going to convince most rational people that nerfing GWF survivability more will balance this game. It will just make DPS GF a more desirable primary DPS in runs. GWF is a front-line fighter. It has one ranged skill and no dodge. You do not understand what it means to be a melee striker/defender, it means intercepting hits so others do not have to take them. There is nothing left to nerf on Destroyer. You must not play GWF. Countless Scars is only used in PVP. Unstoppable DR was nerfed in Mod 4, nerfing it will cause us to have no defenses, since we have no dodge. Our Temp HP that we got to make up for nerfs was itself nerfed. So.....
No I don't want nerf as you think.. I just want to make differences between builds.. If one build, lets say my mentioned glass canon, can bulldoze through dungeon.. Do you think anyone would pick other 2 possible builds.. 99% chance nop. All players stay with max dmg build, thats mean other 2 builds become worthless.
You say destroyer is nerfed.. Well you say so.. But so far its mainstream build.. Why?
Also if you read my post, I didn't say lets adjust/nerf gwf power.. Nop. My proposal is just in fight reallocate part of defensive stats to offensive.. Thats mean gwf dmg output increase. But that also make him weaker. Skilled players will handle this class.. Random player nop.
And as for about knowing melee/tank gameplay.. My friend, neverwinter didn't invent something new. Classes have same desing as most other mmorpg games, and roles within group are same too as many other mmorpg games.
And I am familar with tanking, healer, archer, rogues, mages, debuffers roles. Either single party or massive pvp. or massive pve..
So more less, no need lecture me about it.
Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Comments
To make sure all players would had same weapon stats. Different ranked weapons, different arti weapons type could interfere in testings..
Same goes for class testings. You remove gear, make sure u don't have boons, companions, mounts, and other non class related elements.
And put x class with his feats, encounters, at wills, daily powers and class features vs other class which also don't have any non class related buffing elements.
Put on uncommon non arti gear set on TR and par against GWF, thats how testings are done. Not like, ohh look GF outdps me in FBI dungeon. And latter we found that u had like lesser bonding runestones while GF had r12 bondings + orcus arti set.
Which ends have no relation with TR class at all.
My mentioned TR's where not overgeared compared to remaining groups. I don't put in comparison like 4k++++ vs ~2.5k GS.. Not my style.
Also question, what do u expect. TR bulldoze through dungeon? In non of my known mmorpg games, assasin type/class characters where not ment play otherway than being sneaky, tricky.
Always same classic way> You get behind enemy>, stab in back>, get out in safe position>repeat.
Assasins/rogues are not class which bulldozing through game contents..
As for got hit while u in stealth by boss. Well now question for you, stealth is dodge mechanic or not? Last time I checked it's not. It's class mechanic. It's like SW's curse. And it's not ment like u go stealth, Give middle finger to any monsters and take them out while smoking weed.
Imagine you play with DC, and x class player enter your group. your dc receive hits, while that x class player jump in hide(stealth) and receive no hits. While he still hit enemies.. What kind reaction u will have? With DC u dodge incoming hit, while that player give middle finger to enemies.
I played one cool game which name I will not write.. There where also rogues classes(3 of them)
All had skill(power) hide(stealth). But once you activate it, you are invisible for 10s. However you can't hit. If happens u land any hit, you lose stealth. So what we did? We used it wise, we use hide power to get close to enemy, get combat advantage and strike in right moment. rather HIDE>brainless attack.
But I think I am not in position to convince you anyways.. So more less I will had make TR and do content runs... Last time I was told templock sucks, but it's seems its fine.. I was told heal DC sucks, but it where fine..
I was told HR sucks, it where fine.. Oh well it's time for TR.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
I suggest you go to our tr balancing thread in which 5 of the best players in the game will tell you
Also testing balance by taking off all boons gear is uh ... wow!! I won't even say anything on this as it shows me a lot without even saying anything at all..
Stealth and stuns boss mobs and most end game mobs are immune to it bro hide to get combat advantage??? We always have combat advantage coming out of stealth... have you ever even played a TR!
we have timed our runs time and time again using different players.. 4 support 1dps
Average time 17-20 mins,4support 1TR average time 23-25 mins this is using 25 different players or rather groups(this was to make sure it wasn't just the player. It rather the class itself .I can send you the unedited videos .
We like to show and prove rather than just talk and tell so like I said to others I can invite your rogue on our next FBI speed run and you can see how you hold up against our GWF and CW ...if you can come within 50% of total damage I would be surprised.
I can usually tell what class people play by what they say .
I would guess you are a GWF and don't worry I don't think they should be nerfed I just think TR needs a buff as do most experienced players in the game right now .
We constantly see in looking for group chat. " lf1m hdps no TR please "
Why if you say TR is fine does every group want everything but?
Anyways .. I will leave you to your thread I see we are at very different levels as far as gameplay.
"Sometimes it is better to stay quiet and have people think you crazy than to open your mouth and prove that you really are."
Another non TR player obviously ...
Uh... yeah we only have one viable build at the moment and as far as running with elitist groups I am lucky enough to be part of an amazing endgame alliance that will bring us along even though we are not optimal class but sucks for others not as lucky
But thanx for all your insight and knowledge guys ..
But again my offer is always open to come on a run with us so you can see for yourself or show all of us these mad skills that you may possess that none of us do.
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
What they need to do is start making enemies in dungeons no longer totally CC immune so people can actually play their classes there the way they are supposed to be. This way when they "balance" the game they dont give them more damage to compete with melee strikers and still have the Highest CC too.
Oh wait thats what happened to the GF when they gave them HUGE DAMAGE increase to literally everything so they had so they could do their dailies easier. This is supposed to be a team game and thats SUPPOSED to be the downside of picking a gf, dc, pally or hunter ranger. But no.. they give them all damage to make it easier on them and totally mess up pvp at the same time.
Definately not trying to put other classes down, everyone who masters a class won't have an issue with underperforming.
Character: Vendetta
Having no utility minus battle fury, which most don't use, is a dev problem. Hopefully the can figure out what to do with the other 2 gwf's trees. The one trick pony build must get old.
PVP: Neglected and unbalanced, doesn't really matter unless the devs starts revamping it.
Character: Vendetta
I already know your stance with the gf @defiantone99 and I for the most part agree. I'm not really considering them as a primary dps class.
Character: Vendetta
@trentbail21 Pvp just needs a major overhaul. It all about the "cheese"class of the month like perms CB tr, combat hr, permanent repel cw, one rotation GF and etc. I know you already knot that, but it isn't going to change anytime soon.
Someone mentioned the idea of new stats curves, probably one of the best ideas for pvp in a long time. Do this or just get rid of boons, companions and the stable from pvp all together, but it won't happen.
Character: Vendetta
The way how u evaluated TR performance itself is biggest trolling. You pick 4 supports and 1 TR, and simply wanted everything kill with single blow.
Now GWF is more aoe, because due defence/deflect, HP pool. < and u fail to beat him in speed run, and thus now complain about TR performance..
TR = assasins. Thats mean best class for single target elimination. It's not ment go face2face aoe fight. yet you want opposite.
master infiltrator path>name itself says, Infiltrator = sneaky assasin. Not offtank.
Also did u even though about companions, mounts and insignias interactions.. That GWF perhaps have better compiled companions that u do.
Thats why I mentioned that in order to evaluate x class performance there must be no other factors than class powers and feats..
Also it's just speed run comparisson. It's not like 30 min difference. and your complains sounds like TR can't do anything at all..
Also I spoken with TR from friendlist and other TR which I know.. The ones who did end game runs. mSP, FBI, mSvardborg.
And when I asked them do TR sucks in endgame content.. They laugh. Most of them assured that there is not case that TR can't do neither laging way behind others.. It's simply require slightly different gameplay than usuall Dungeon bulldozing.
I am not against TR rebalancing, yet I prefer rebalancing between TR builds itselfs.. To make other builds more viable. But not brainless buffing..
Also before that, We need proper class performance evaluation. feats, simple non arti gear. No enchants. No boons, no campaign boons. No mounts, no insignias, no companions..
TO see core of TR performance. Not performance of faill builds..
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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Yeah I won't really get into it as it's obvious you have never played a TR .
And any TR you spoke to that says we are comparable to other Dps in endgame content is high!
Like I said go to our TR balancing thread where you will see the feedback from James ,Blur, quilla,Mike
Undoubtably THE best TRs in the game .
And no we are all at the same BiS level where you can't do anything else to squeak out any more damage.
But again like I said 5x
Bring your best TR we will invite him on a run and show you how horribly mistaken you are .
Also 30 min difference??? What the hell are you talking about ?
It's about a 3 min difference
With pvp it's a different story TR is definitely viable in pvp maybe not against a GF or a properly spec HR I have a respectable 5357 kill 1070 death 5-1 ratio not the best pvper or the worst .. and I do not have complaints about TR in pvp only in PVE
And yes I have also played rogue in other MMOs in world first guilds like Built Horde Tough and Envy but comparing rogue in WoW to rogue in Neverwinter is apples and oranges as they are not even close to similar mechanic wise or class style
And no we don't expect TR to bulldoze thru dungeons or have amazing epic solo videos like GF or GWF or CW
We have paper armor at best and little range or aoe.
The prob is we have 1build we all use and 5 skills 99% of us use that's it! If you are using gleaming cut or shocking execution and first strike in PVE you have much to learn anyway
The prob is TR is good for one thing...
Dps ..that's it and we are not even the best at it
While a GWF can do offtanking and dps. Or CW can CC and other capabilities as well as dps ,all these classes have multiple functions .
TR does not ..
So when picking dps you are of course going to pick one that adds the most to the group ..if you say not your either lying or crazy.
But anyways we have a few devs that acknowledged we need more utility and buffs in PVE and even had a visit to the thread from mimic King so I am hopeful ..
As far as you I really am not trying to put you down but some people you can slap em in the face with a sock and they will still say..I talked to people and they laughed and told me it's not a sock.
So if you don't believe me,or the devs that posted,or the top players that make the builds that's your TRs are using or the community acknowledged best players of the TR class ..
Then it's obvious there is no convincing you ..but I will invite you to any content you pick and show you the skill difference between us if be that will convince you it's def not the player in the chair as you say..
@ Demon ,Dave ,m1ke you are right there is no winning here lol
Any skilled player can solo a dungeon regardless of class and most have survivability tools to do it. I not disagreeing with you there, what I'm saying is IMO gwf has the best survivability tools of all of the primary dps classes. You have to have some kind of trade off between surviveability and dps.
This is the main issue in Pvp. For instance, GF's, combat hr's, and some tr builds have high burst, amazing survivability tools and have amazing control. They have the best of everything without any trade offs, not balanced. The trade offs are the balance IMO.
Character: Vendetta
Character: Vendetta
Yes, because when facing group of trash monsters, even receive hits, their lost HP gets covered due Life steal. And it's looks like CW, SW, HR, TR, GWF can tank easily..
Now line NO< it's because. Lets say u facing group of monsters, like 5 of them. Each of them deal dmg which takes 20% of your max HP. If one of them hit it's not big deal. You hit them all 5, triggering life steal, and restoring own HP pool fast enough and you can mess up with these mobs all day/night. Even if 2 of them would land hit, it would not be problem..
However if 4 of them or all 5 of them land hit in same moment... Then even if you would have gazilion amount of life steal and life steal severity.. It will not help you.. U die.
Same goes for regeneration like SB"s borrowed time.. Players think due this class feature SB is tanky.. Well against trash mobs yes.
But even if u have gazilion life steal, gazilion HP regeneration per 2s. That will not help u survive strong single hit. Thus players die, and latter you read posts, in x dungeon players got oneshot.
And all problem is simply.. They pick ~5k defence,, 0~200 deflect. 9k life steal.. But such set up don't help you survive strong impacts.
What makes GWF more special than other classes.. Well by nature it's ment to be face2face, melee fighter. And design for such class is classic..
High/top dmg in close range.
High HP pool
Higher than average Defence,
Combined with life steal it's obvious that make gwf more tanky than other non tank class.
However as design in most mmorpg games such class have weakness.
Slow, weak against ranged.
Here in neverwinter GWF have dash, and also there is no separate magic and physical damage.. So part of design weakness lacking make less reasons pick other class, and also increase hatred toward GWF..
And this situation is nothing new, have seen in many games same problem, same argumentations, hatreds and so one.
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Now to balance GWF I think developers should reevaluate some stuffs..
Firstly if u increase more offensive stats, you should gave up some defensive.. I know lot of GWF guys would rage on me for such talks.. But hear me out..
I think 3 trees should be
1) glasscanon = high dmg =low survivability, thats mean its main role just dmg, and not ment offtank by any case.
2) balanced =mid dmg=mid survivability , thats mean can go most stuffs solo, due ability stand against dmg which first tree can't. However can't beat glasscannon in term of dmg.
3) offtank.= thats mean highest survivability among these 3 trees, yet lowest dmg output.. This tree should be one when you go offtanking.
Now how to fix, I suggest add berserk life effect to final destroyers feat.
Which increase x dmg output by percentage, yet, in same quantity give up defensive stats... Thus not allow them offtank, yet it will let them inflict more devastating dmg..
Such solution is kinda common in many games... You gain x offensive stats, and in exchange you gave up x defensive stats..
SO skilled players would be more powerfull, while suckers die more offten :P
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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All players stay with max dmg build, thats mean other 2 builds become worthless.
You say destroyer is nerfed.. Well you say so.. But so far its mainstream build.. Why?
Also if you read my post, I didn't say lets adjust/nerf gwf power.. Nop. My proposal is just in fight reallocate part of defensive stats to offensive.. Thats mean gwf dmg output increase. But that also make him weaker. Skilled players will handle this class.. Random player nop.
And as for about knowing melee/tank gameplay.. My friend, neverwinter didn't invent something new. Classes have same desing as most other mmorpg games, and roles within group are same too as many other mmorpg games.
And I am familar with tanking, healer, archer, rogues, mages, debuffers roles. Either single party or massive pvp. or massive pve..
So more less, no need lecture me about it.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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