well, to a point its a matter of how you choose to look at things: the first epic key per day and char is free for everyone(from the white bearded dwarf with the quest icon above his head next to the wonderous bazaar in protecters enclave, for thouse who don´t know him yet) so you can calculate it as 0 investment, it was free after all, and consider it a gain no matter what you find in the chest, or you can expect 5k plus AD from the chest alone, since buying an epic key at max price would cost 5k AD, then you´ll feel like your making losses...
@ravenskya well, running elol doesn´t, VT: you can complete the DR weekly(slay three red wizards) there, and obsidian fragments(I think they´re called) can be traded for vanguard skripts...but how I prepare most of my VT keys is this: grab purple gauntlet, run the daily DR lair(which offer an acceptable chance at purple marks, and with a lot of luck even a GMOP, SMOP or bound artefakt, also nearly always drops unbound green or even blue refinement stones) it also gives 5 thayen scrolls and a thayen cipher...open campaign window, select the "trade thayen intellegence" task, which trades the thayen cipher for all 15 vanguard scripts I need for my key, this takes around 5 minutes, since I take it slow... leaves only the gold, for me the leadership profession + what I find while playing covers that...
So you are agreeing that eLoL is not a break even. This dungeon is now a losing venture. As are all of the others in that range.
AND you are stating that to make VT break even you need to level up leadership since gold is the limiting factor.
By the way - I ran VT last night, opened both chests, got a single bit of alliance gear, elemental seals and a rank 5 enchantment out of each of the chests. The whole dungeon was a net loss for me. Unless you can explain to me how 2200AD for salvaging the alliance ring, the rank 5 enchant, and the 30 or so elemental seals is worth the time and effort that goes into making the key...
I've stopped making keys completely.
How many hours do you play per day to get the 3 gold per VT key? how often are you running dungeons each night?
Have you started trying to upgrade the new relic weapons with the keys made in the sea of moving ice campaign? Because though I'm not thrilled with how this is playing out in the dungeons I run for fun. I'm about a weekend or two away from starting that bit - and I'm really unhappy with how I expect this change to affect my ability to upgrade these new relic weapons. I'm annoyed enough to ignore them and just run the campaign for the boons.
Yes I am making my points about dungeons that I really don't care about - I have 3 full lostmauth sets, a full valindra's set, a lathander's set and a full seldarine set. I don't NEED to run any of the dungeons. I LIKE to run the dungeons because that is what is fun to me. And when I run them I like to open the treasure chests at the end. If I want to upgrade these new weapons I have - apparently I am going to need a lot of keys. I'm told that there is a 1:10 drop rate on something I need to upgrade them, so now that means I will need to make 10 keys (or with cryptic math that's actually 52 keys) to get ONE of something that I will need many of. Think about that then go work on your leadership and defend the math on drop rates.
It's pretty bad when I'm in a chat and I just keep hearing "so which game are we headed to next and when does it come out?" instead of talk about how to get/upgrade some bit of gear or make it through some dungeon.
Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold" Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
Its not like leadership is the only easy way to get gold, the potions from "return of investment" in caer coenig sell for good coin.
Before the key change, gold was completely worthless ime, and its actually nice that now its possible to put it to use or trade it for useful items.
I most often do two dungeons and two skirmishes, or 2 dungeons and one esot with key, since it allows me to get both piles of daily extra ad with one run. Sometimes I run some extra dungeons. And since I also have VIP keys every run is a plus. The refinement items in the second chests in T1 dungeons, together with the other drops, are worth more to me than the campaign currencies involved in creating the key, now that I can either auction them or move them to a char that can still use them.
Regarding Relic weapons: I started running esva b4 making the investment of restoring the relic weapons, and after experiancing how unlikely it is to get all the orange marks, I´ve sold the restoration ingrediants I already had on the auction house instead. Still, I´m running SoMI dailies and the weekly for the boons, and if reputation piles up I run a few esvas to not let it go to waste...got a few useful other things^^.
Took me 30 runs to get 2 Legendary Uvar marks which is 30 keys. And for what? A simple upgrade mark. Drop chance should really be increased for those marks since its nothing special, upgrade material, not a legendary ring or some rare item.
About these changes. I like them and dislike them. What I like is that after finishing a dungeon rather than just looking in a chest and not taking anything I actually have to take my rewards. This has led me to have tons of rough astral diamonds. Plus I have come out with a few rewards that I'm happy about. An epic demo belt out of a skirmish. White dragon soul. And a +5 ring. The one that makes you invisible every thirty seconds or something. So on that aspect I like it. Overall I'm pretty happy with the changes. I guess what makes me not like it is when you complete a dungeon and all you get is a +1 ring and that's it. I have ran about 75 total runs or so since the update to get the items I listed. So it has led me to farm dread ring skirmish and master of the hunt. I figure I'll run those about ten times and by that tenth time I'll get something. That's were all my items have come from. Other than the +5ring of course. So that part makes me a little upset. I get that I can't get the best reward after every dungeon because then I would have everything and there would be no point. What I would like to see is first with the +5rings, give us a loot box. Let us choose what ring we get. I mean the rings are rare so when you finally get one you should be able to choose which one you actually want. I would also like to see a I forget the word. But let's say you run ten dungeons and haven't really gotten anything the system should know that and give you a good prize. It makes me sick going through the auction house and seeing the same dude post 3 legendary choice packs and orcs Wands. I have. Ever received even an epic from a lot box and these people have multiple. That's lame. So things like that I think would improve the game. I just want to have fun running the dungeons and get rewarded for my efforts. This is a step in the right direction you guys have made you just need a few more tweaks to make it perfect. Thanks for all your hard word I love this game. Sorry for my spelling I'm on my phone hahaha good day
I'm with @blur#5900 on this. The drop rates are simply atrocious for the legendary marks. I've ran msva well over 100 times and have only one of the rarest legendary marks (xbox). 1. I need 10. So 900 more runs and I might be able to take my main and offhand to legendary. Ridiculous.
Also, am I the only one that is seeing absolutely no difference in dungeon and skirmish drops?? What was a +1 before in demo, throne.. whatever.. is a plus 1 now.
For me gold is not a problem, even without leadership (which rakes in more than enough), I pick up pretty much everything to refine/sell and it adds up fairly quickly. In about an hour or less I should have enough to make about 2-3 keys or more (depends on the area and how I'm running) all the while completing daily quests, etc.
The items gained from running a dungeon may not be "directly" useful but can be "milled around" and used for a number of things.
Items > salvage > RAD > AD Items > RP Seals > items > salvage > RAD > AD Seals > items > RP Enchants > AD or RP
There is value per dungeon run and overlooking it does not make them nonexistent...
If players don't want to upgrade their relic weapons (run the endgame dungeons) without having ran a considerable amount of endgame dungeons or at all that is their choice, they can rank them up to "ready to upgrade" or leave them at rank 1 and still be powerful though them making an argument about a system that they are opting out of makes little sense.
A number of players I interact with have been getting pretty good drops from the epic chests in dungeons (150 ilvl gear, artifacts, sellables, et.), with very few runs, not to mention getting those things (in a few runs) is more than worth the "value" of daily epic keys/5k epic keys/VIP epic keys.
As far as players that are talking about others game, I for one ask them why are they still playing Neverwinter, the dungeon key change is live, you don't want to do a little more to gain more so what's the point of playing if you don't have VIP?
Playing a tank/healer and going at quests alone will increase the time it takes to complete them significantly. I can pretty much guarantee that there is someone somewhere willing to help a tank/healer run daily quests so the people making the argument that it takes them longer when they seemingly are willfully running content alone makes very little sense to me. I look out to help tanks/healers because they a part of most dungeon groups, if they can't get in, well, you get it. They may not be part of any dungeons I run (due to queuing full/partial group) but they can be part of other groups and also helping someone with quests I'm running anyway doesn't hurt me at all.
As far as "fun" goes there are a number of things that some may or may not consider "fun" though I will state this, the end result from the efforts I have put in are quite "fun" to me, betting with other players on who pulled in the most from AH sales, who can level up a profession the fastest, who can do this or that is "fun" to me even though the journey to get there may or may not have been/be "fun".
Dungeons are not necessarily fun for me, I tend to run dungeons after I have finished with the daily quests I want to run for that session because how I look at it is I'm guaranteed to get something from making Guild vouchers (Boons, upgraded structures, etc.) or selling items on the AH and if I do those things first and get not so good dungeon drops I still have something else to show for from that session. I don't depend on dungeon drops to supply me with items/AD, that's why I invested into other parts of the game that are far more rewarding (in regard to AD) than dungeons IMO. Sometimes players have to do things they don't like to reach a goal(s) faster and if they don't yet complain, it makes little sense (if any) to me.
@trinity706#8838 they added worthless items but did not increase the drops on stuff we actually need, like the legendary marks. Ask a pc player, i bet getting one of those legendary marks per 100 runs was pretty much par for the course before the changes.
My post was in response to dungeon/skirmish drops, there is a difference in them, the AH shows the results of the increased drop rate. A number of players can use the artifacts, etc. that are dropping more often (feeders, AD, etc.), not to mention the revenue from such drops and other things can fund a number of things like multiple dungeon runs which means more chances at those marks which will allow the already power relic weapons to become even stronger (they should be more rare).
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
You may not have been "blessed" as of yet but it is CLEARLY happening for a number of people meaning the system has improved.
You mean applying an excessive model drift as a fix ? Yep. Just gate it all behind RNG and you are good to go. I know some people love gambling. But you know, it never was my thing. I was always bad with the games of luck and chance.
There should be a defined answer , if you are using a " maybe you get it " system. Example : You run a dungeon for : __________ . You will receive : ___THIS ___ and __THIS ___ if you do that. If you do not do that then you ll receive ___THIS___ and ___THIS__ .
Not a " chance " to receive a HAMSTER , but in case you are LUCKY, you can receive a better HAMSTER in a year or so. And look, that HAMSTER has a ribbon and it is pink too! And next mod , guess what, it will be a yellow ribbon with sparkly violet shade , but that is not all, if you pay up now, you can maybe get a pink Unicorn ! JUst hurry up and pay , right now! We have only 3 more sets to go.. Does it remind you of something ?
This is exactly what NW is turning into. A game of chance and luck. Spending money or not spending money.
In the end it will reduce unwanted players who are not wanted . You will grind. You will buy keys. And in the end you will do what they want or quit. It is simple. And people like you love it. That is okay. We all have our own preferences. But if you can not understand some of us will never agree to be happy with that kind of a system. And if you can not respect our way of looking at things. That is not okay.
I have decided that this is my last post on this topic. No response from the devs yet so blah.
@trinity706#8838 Your argument to everything is "I don't have that problem" and though I appreciate you wanting to defend the game. You will have to eventually realize that if there aren't changes that you will be playing with a much lighter crowd on the PS4. PS4 players are among the most fickle on the planet - in March you have Mass Effect and Ghost Recon coming out. Those have multiplayer in them - which is the only reason some of my friends came back from FF15 - we promptly lost that same crew to ARK. In our guild - over 75% have preordered those two big named games. They are staying on Neverwinter hoping that it gets better before these release.
If it isn't better by then they, will be gone. Same thing happened in the Division - sure I know that they have fixed a lot of things in the Division and added a bunch of DLC's but we all felt burnt by the Devs when we left, and no one has had the desire to go back and even look at the new stuff.
When this game has turned into a job - which is the direction they are taking it - you will see a large % of the population leave. You will then be left with the people who would have been here anyway that dump money in and are truly bonded to the game. That will be a much smaller crew to run dungeons with, less people to find to run Tiamat with. Have you seen how quiet protectors enclave has gotten over the weekend? Only one or two people screaming about needing an IL4K for eLoL?
They are turning this game into a job. I have to run dailys on each character to acquire the stuff I need to progress, on top of that I need to fish and do heroic encounters. Along the way I need to pick up enough voninblod to recharge my gear (because that was a great freakin idea). Keep in mind that I have to use 40+ preservation wards to upgrade something at a 20% chance. All of that while (according to you) picking up every piece of trash on the ground to sell for gold so that I can make keys to open the chests for the ONE THING I WANT TO DO IN THE GAME - run dungeons.
We have, as a group elected not to go after restoring the new weapons - because we all already have jobs, and they actually pay us rather then asking us to pay them. We will wait for the river district and see if there are equal or better weapons in there - and how stupid the tasks are to get them. If they are less desirable then the stupid fishing weapons then it will be much easier for us all to leave the game in March because we will have progressed as far as we intend to.
MMO's are only fun when there are other people in them to play with - remember that.
Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold" Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
I was one that used to be a critic about this change and i think at some places like FBI it will be (or already is) a big problem, but for my experience the drop rate of new (and old) drops have grown quite a lot in dungeons, still a luck try but faaar better than it used to be, and the new stuff is not bis, but some are nice to have in alts.. and equip alts was really annoying
I've also used the preview a bit and i think that with next mod online the feeling is tuning back to what i had before, is being nice to play the last days and frarm and GET the new equip... I hope that the feeling i got from one night in the preview is real...
About this changes:
In the end that is my opinion, is good for more casual player (that don't play more than 2 dungeons a day) and is really bad for those hardcore that like to run a lot of times the same content...
Don't get me wrong, i used to be a much more hardoce player ( i got my drowned set in one weekend and that was 100 crab HE's) and i remember i've leveled 3 toons from 60 to 70 in one week (monday to friday) because i was in vacation ... I just feel that the game change he's style and for me is not a bad change, is the first time i really have a reason to play my alts in a loooooong time, now i get some nice gear for them and i HAVE to play them to get more dungeons...
i'm not a hardcore, i dontplay everiday, i usually play 2 or 3 hours when i play and i gor the mask from Tuern, the boots from Kessels, on energon from DR skirmish, on armor from Throne D. Gods, one armor from Temple of Spider and a good buch of +4 rings (i got a useless +5 that became salvage, a store to trade those would be nice...) was reaally hard to someone that play the time i play to get even +4 rings...
I really cant complain...
OBS. i still dont think this will sell keys in zen store, but i belive it may sell some vips...
You mean applying an excessive model drift as a fix ?
In the end it will reduce unwanted players who are not wanted . You will grind. You will buy keys. And in the end you will do what they want or quit. It is simple. And people like you love it. That is okay. We all have our own preferences. But if you can not understand some of us will never agree to be happy with that kind of a system. And if you can not respect our way of looking at things. That is not okay.
No. What I stated is after the change drop rates have increased, trade house prices have gone down on Artifacts (and other things) meaning more players can afford them meaning more players getting the Artifacts/things they need/want to be more effective.
I also stated that players who are not dungeoneers can get AD which used to be tucked away in dungeons requiring four other players and also "RNG" to get the things they need/want.
Do you/others not see any of the above as positive things for the game as a whole? Do you/others not respect my personal opinion and or the opinions of others who are not opposed to the dungeon key change? Let's make this clear, just because a person doesn't oppose something doesn't mean they like it.
If anyone here cannot answer yes to those two questions then you all are doing the very thing @araneax just stated is not okay ("And if you can not respect our way of looking at things. That is not okay.").
Where have I stated that I buy keys, even more so with real money? Where have I stated that this change was the answer? I have in so many words pointed out the positive aspects/results of the change myself and others have witnessed and what players can do to be able to gain the things they want/need. I can see how the change effects a number of players though I also see opportunity for others. I have even agreed on some of the points made here by players who don't like the change, I'm seeing it from multiple perspectives but when someone makes posts and doesn't not like the change they come under fire and their posts are not given the respect the nay sayers are seemingly demanding for theirs.
Again, this is not a bash Cyrptic/Developer thread and if people can't handle opinions and views that differ from their own then essentially they can't effectively be constructive in this thread.
My argument in part consists of what I had done in-game since I started playing that eventually put me in the position to be able to run multiple dungeons per session if so I choose, in other words a response to the people complaining about the price of keys (which has been reduced, about 15k per 5).
I have seen fewer players and less activity so I'm not oblivious to it though I do not agree with the "only way forward is to buy keys with money" type statements which are seemingly one sided, biased and not respecting those that do what they do to get over "hurdles" other than spending money showing others that there are alternatives and so many seemingly stand in front of those "hurdles" waiting for something to happen and not even attempting to jump, "I ONLY like dungeons so to heck with that other stuff". How can players that strictly follow a beaten path in a game expect to succeed when things change? The game has changed, if the changes stick and players leave because they don't want to change up what they are used to I wouldn't blame Cryptic for the most part, I would focus more on the players who seemingly want the game their "easy street" way since they are things that take minimal effort to get going that will alleviate a lot of self inflicted stress later on (starting professions tasks and letting them run).
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Oh honey - it's not about the keys... it's about the direction that everything took with this latest update.
-Healers are having a hard time progressing because everything has to be done via a DPS test - which most can't pass -You cant queue into a dungeon without a healer unless you private queue -Now if your healer drops out - you have to 4 man the dungeon while it hunts forever for a replacement healer (4 of the elol I ran this weekend we 4 manned and one we 3 manned when the tank and healer disconnected together) -Since healers can't progress without being carried - there is an extreme shortage of them to get into the new dungeons and higher level content -Fishing... they seem stuck on fishing... 3 things now with fishing in them (winter festival, bryn and now sea of moving ice) and most of us don't like fishing we like dungeons and dragons and fighting demons and rescuing people and looting treasure. -Sure now the drop rates of things are supposedly better, none of us actually knows what the drop rates are. I still haven't gotten anything new to drop from all of the dungeons I've run other than the orcus hat. -My friends that are attempting to upgrade the new weapons have pointed out that the drop rate of what we need to upgrade these weapons is so low that it's almost pointless -The majority of the chests still don't = the value of the key, even in salvage (they would have pre-salvage nerf but not anymore)... and now the chests are hosed up - it takes up to 25 minutes for what you got out of a chest to pop into your inventory. Half the time you can't even see what you got until it shows up later and you suddenly discover your inventory is full from a dungeon you ran a half an hour ago. -Yes it makes me happy that my friends are getting companions and mounts out of the chest - that does make the dungeon run far more palatable in the end. -I still don't like that the weapons and armors are still bland when it comes to who is running what. There is no originality - every IL4k that you see is running the same gear with maybe different enchants. -a 20% chance to upgrade should not regularly take 40+ preservation wards to upgrade -Keys shouldn't take 20 hours to make, and shouldn't take more ingredients than you can acquire in a single set of dailys -Either gold needs to be taken out of the key making requirements - or there needs to be gold in the chests as well
Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold" Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
-Since healers can't progress without being carried - there is an extreme shortage of them to get into the new dungeons and higher level content
There's a shortage of healers because new players go straight for DPS toons. Support characters are in shortage in every MMO.
Most of what you're complaining about has nothing to do with the key change too. It has more to do with problems that have been there for years and no one complained about them until the key change because apparently getting 1 extra piece of salvage (and an artifact every 200+ runs) was enough to make all these problems bearable.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
So I got the memo... vip is what makes drop chance higher.. jk
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
So you are agreeing that eLoL is not a break even. This dungeon is now a losing venture. As are all of the others in that range.
If you were breaking even Cryptic would do a bad job. It is your and my best interest to break even on dungeon runs. Cryptic tends to disagree and wants us to spend ZEN on keys for opening boxes and have a chance to get a valuable item. I don't like it, but I can understand it.
I am free to leave at any time once I find the key to open those shackle on my leg. (the keys in the ZEN store don't fit, I tried them already)
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
Well...did again 15 MSVA runs. I only need 2 uvars. So i only open 1 chest. Did i get a uvar? Ofc not. I got "nice" and fancy charbounds things. I dont know how i can farm so many keys that i get my uvers with this droprate. This change can make som BIS players happy if they kept all the keys from vip. But its still a PITA for legendary marks and a gamebreaker for new players.
Support characters(healers and tanks) don´need to be carried, things are going really smooth for me on any rarely played severely undergeared alt. You just need to know a few things if you want to solo: 1. you need roughly 30% resistance ignored to do full dmg when up against level 70-72 mobs(bosses can go up to 36%, but we´re talking about soloing single player stuff here) and roughly 50% against lvl 73 mobs(55% for frost giants). Sadly that means either a second set of gear with arp on it, or being in a guild with stables(3000 armor penetration at guild rank 10, stable rank 5 for example). 2. even if you have enough resistance ignored, debuffs decreasing enemy dmg resistance(defense, mitigation, the game is rather inconsistent in what is called) still increase the damage the target takes. 3. some of our powers can control or at least interrupt enemies who´re about to do something nasty, like heal themseves or other monsters or use some otherwise annoying move. 4. the powers and thouse passives where you can only have two slotted, which are best for soloing are different ones than thouse for your role in multiplayer content. But every single class has enough tools. On an Oathbound Paladin for example: "aura of courage" gives some nice extra dmg based on our hit point number, like adding around 3k dmg to every hit of randiant strike(our multi target at will power) its own dmg is something like 1.7k(varies with rank and the weapon used) so thats almost 3x. putting a cricle of power on the floor adds another 30% dmg, plus either dmg resist or better self heals for you depending on paragon. Vow of enmity really speeds up melting tough targets(60% on rank 4, yay, it really works now...on PC...not sure if its already fixed on other platforms). Templars wrath for burst dmg and control, and a nice bonus depending on paragon. I´m useing "aura of wisdom" as my second, haven´t experimented with aura of solitude yet... might be an option.
No. What I stated is after the change drop rates have increased, trade house prices have gone down on Artifacts (and other things) meaning more players can afford them meaning more players getting the Artifacts/things they need/want to be more effective.
I also stated that players who are not dungeoneers can get AD which used to be tucked away in dungeons requiring four other players and also "RNG" to get the things they need/want.
Do you/others not see any of the above as positive things for the game as a whole? Do you/others not respect my personal opinion and or the opinions of others who are not opposed to the dungeon key change? Let's make this clear, just because a person doesn't oppose something doesn't mean they like it.
If anyone here cannot answer yes to those two questions then you all are doing the very thing @araneax just stated is not okay ("And if you can not respect our way of looking at things. That is not okay.").
Where have I stated that I buy keys, even more so with real money? Where have I stated that this change was the answer? I have in so many words pointed out the positive aspects/results of the change myself and others have witnessed and what players can do to be able to gain the things they want/need. I can see how the change effects a number of players though I also see opportunity for others. I have even agreed on some of the points made here by players who don't like the change, I'm seeing it from multiple perspectives but when someone makes posts and doesn't not like the change they come under fire and their posts are not given the respect the nay sayers are seemingly demanding for theirs.
Again, this is not a bash Cyrptic/Developer thread and if people can't handle opinions and views that differ from their own then essentially they can't effectively be constructive in this thread.
Do you/others not see any of the above as positive things for the game as a whole?
This change is not just black and white . It is not just positive and just negative. It is in between. And it is going to negative more as the time passes. In order to buy something from AH , you actually need to run dungeons/ heroics to receive something you can actually sell. You keep forgetting that. You need to run dungeons and kill bosses in order to receive loot you can salvage and loot you can sell on AH. Answer me this. What happens when people stop running dungeons ?
You keep saying how things on AH right now are cheap. That is correct. It is cheaper. For how long until people decide they had enough and demand gets higher then loot received? The prices will sky rocket again. And we will be back to where we came from. Except You ll have to spend your keys.
We are now trying to show them it is more negative then positive.Do we expect a change ? Some of us do, some of us do not. We shall see what happens. Correct ?
Do you/others not respect my personal opinion and or the opinions of others who are not opposed to the dungeon key change?
I read your comments a few times, in order to see If i understood it correctly. If i managed to capture the point you are trying to make , since there is always a possibility i am wrong and your point is right. I do try to appreciate your opinion even if it is different from mine. And some things i have applied to my guild and alliance. We all try our best and no one can say you are not doing the same.
However, what grinds my gear is the following : You keep talking about how you are offering viable solutions to the players. You are. But. You yourself, refuse to do the things if they do not suit you. And if we think in a the same way we are categorized as people who want least effort required ?
You " feel" the solutions offered in here, are not reasonable. With that i would even agree if you did not mention one thing.
players choosing the "least effort requiring route(s)" and complaining that they aren't getting what they want.
We offer a solution as for example, lowering the time for crafted keys. And you say :
Just like with the suggestions about lowering the crafted key timers. 20 hrs for a key from a "minimal" amount of effort (a few quests, even faster in a group) in my opinion is more than reasonably.
We say it is too much to spend money on keys and your opinion is :
I mean I enjoy Neverwinter, it's a fun game for me and for the most part that's how I treat it, though such "money grabs" if I choose not to partake in them I just use AD instead of allowing it to hinder my progress and or cause me "discomfort" as many players seemingly do.
We say it costs us too much time and effort for smaller prizes and the grind is hideous and you say :
Group up. If players run zones alone of course it will take them longer, I'm assuming this is the case here since I haven't seen anyone mention it. Again, players don't have to run daily quest for currency, start a key and run dungeons each session they play, save the keys for a day you can run straight dungeons and or DF, Influence, etc. (just a suggestion). Seems to me a number of players are consciously making it harder on themselves.
We all are basically saying nonsense and you do not understand where we are coming from.
We are making unnecessary obstacles on our path ?
Yes there is more players here not agreeing with you. I do not think any of us are looking down on you. On the contrary i feel it is a good way of looking at the other side of the coin when you are not capable of doing it yourself.
If someone tried to flame you , that is on him or her. I do respect your opinion ,sometimes you poke people and then expect no reaction. That is all.
I put spoilers in for the people who do not wish to read my really long post...
This will be my last entry here, i decided to leave the game when Mass effect will be released so you won't find me complain about anything anymore.
I'm stuck to 2950 since black Friday until march and i've done the maths, i'm not sure, i'll have enought rp to go past 3100 and finally run my 1st fbi...
So far since update i got : - orcus shard - 6 demonlord visage ( yeah 6) - 2 epics mounts binded - 1 green artifact sold 250 000 - 1 blue artifact worth 40 000 - 2 green pets binded
I needed the orcus shard so no income from there, the 250 000 i got from selling an artifact are gone in buying 3 x 5 ldk wich gave me nothing back to sell...
I couldn't wait till march to updgrade shard at least to epic because i runed so many CN to get it that keeping it in my bags 2 months more wasn't a option...
Now, i'm left with very few rp points ( i have mount with wanderer and 2 r10 hoard dargon, 1 r10 fey enchant. They work well a few minutes then not at all for a long time and then it works again. It's like there is a cooldown or something i don't really understand)
Anyway I just hoped that i could play an hour or so and then play an other game so that it would not feel like i'm working for Cryptic and paying for that. Unfortunately that's not my experience and for many others too.
While i'm grinding and grinding i'm not playing other amazing games.
I think maybe i just got sick of how mmo works nowadays maybe i'm too old for that playstyle, i don't know...
I got sick with Destiny, i got sick with The Division and now i'm sick of Neverwinter.
I log, i run 1 cn and an other dunjeon, 2 skirmish, i progress throught the new campaigns and that's all basically.
We live in a world where everyone want and do things faster. Maybe playing a game during years everyday for hours isnt what we want anymore, i'm sure that's not what i want at least...
Anyway. I hope it'll get better for those who w still want to play fully the game.
(PS: Don't answer to me please, it was just some kind of conclusion not to create a debate or asking for solutions from anyone)
Keys may not be part of your particular argument but it is for others & for some, a major one.
As for gold, again, leadership does well, if players didn't level it as they were playing it's still a opportunity at this point (x2 Profession XP was not too long ago & I'm assuming not many partook). Leadership takes no additional resources other than the profession people & eventually two other items that are reusable there's little "excuse" in regard to that (gold).
Picking up drops & selling may be a "tedious" thing to do but it grants silver & or gold per item at higher levels. Yes it takes effort but not putting in the effort will more than likely result in "0" gold so not doing so means a player essentially has no room to complain.
As far as crafted keys, name a key(s) that the appropriate daily quests/effort won't grant per day...
AFA pwards, I keep a running log of how many preservation wards it took/takes me to upgrade various things & for the most part the results are pretty dern good. A number of times I have upgraded at 1% chance using a small amount of wards, yes sometimes the higher percentages take more but getting those 1%'s with such few wards more than evens it out for me. Claiming percentages taking a considerable amount of wards regularly is a bit far-fetched. As many times as I have gotten 1%'s & others fairly quickly until I spend more than what I have saved in AD using preservation wards instead of getting coalescent wards the numbers are in my favor.
In other words for every coalescent ward not gotten, even if a player spends half the value of the CW on preservation wards & successfully upgrades that players has NOT lost.
AFA a shortage of support classes, @urabask made a very good point.
Seems like a number of players are attributing a number of "unrelated" effects to the key change with little supporting details. I sometimes assist tanks & healers, sometimes I ask would they like to join our Guild since apparently theirs isn't assisting them, sometimes they join, sometimes they don't & sometimes I help or I don't but overall, support classes CHOOSING to run alone then complain makes little sense.
What do you attribute the Shard of Orcus' Wand going from about 5m to about 1.6m AD to? They didn't pop out of thin air... Clearly drop rates have increased though players are claiming they haven't because they themselves have not personally experienced it even though the results are right there in front for all to see.
Though you are quoting a number of my posts out of context...
Professions don't need dungeons & provide the first profession person for players to use, how they continue from there is their choice. there are a number of non-end game dungeons that are relatively easy to complete even without a high level in the group, they all grant RAD & various items to do whatever with (chest or no chest). My suggestions, etc. can be applied to a character of pretty much any level.
What happens when everyone stops running dungeons? More than likely it won't, there will pretty always be players/Guilds that run dungeons. Even if dungeon runs were stopped cold turkey (highly unlikely) there are still other aspects of the game that players enjoy (Guild building, skirmishes, leveling, professions). Again when players focus on one or a few things & it/they change to their dislike they have put themselves in a position of not liking the game as a whole even though they don't participate in the game as a whole.
Speculating on the future is well & all but trying to use such speculation by applying it to what is happening now can only go so far. You are speculating that AH prices will rise, you don't know if they will & or by how much but are trying to use it to support your argument (which you can), but it will probably be argued against until it comes to pass.
Correct, we shall see what happens.
The difference is things I choose not to do, I don't complain about because I chose not to do them, players here are choosing not to do things for whatever reason(s) & complaining about the outcome & trying to use "fun" & or time per session they play to support their statements (which I'm not arguing against for the most part), what I am arguing against are the results of actions in which players take & are complaining about in light of the alternatives available.
If I see a different route to reach the same end that I find more suitable I more likely will take it, on the other hand you have players that see the multiple options & choose seemingly depending on the level of effort required & or what they like to do (not faulting them for that) & or they choose a way that clearly takes more time & more effort then complain about it, if a person reads those & addresses it then there it is. What a player prefers to do in game & or the time they have per session does not shield them from opinions or criticism on what they do in-game.
Do you really think/feel the suggestions about reducing the amount of time to craft are for all keys or predominantly Greater Demonic keys (that are the only key that can be utilized since the other keys don't get enough currency granted per day for more than one)?
How much effort does it take to stand around 1 of 2 demonic encounters for it to spawn, get a few hits & receive credit, queue into a skirmish & do the same & or complete a few daily quests & start a key? Are those not examples of "minimal effort" for a key that gives the opportunity for a reward valued much higher than the effort it took to craft in the first place?
Do I feel all players behave this way, no, though I see it pretty much every session I play. Players are doing those things now (negatively engaging in encounters/skirmishes) & reducing the crafted key timer will reward those players even more which I don't agree with, I'm not against reducing the crafted key timer, that's why I suggested a reward system like the one with the skirmish but taking into account offensive/defensive input/output to determine rewards that way players who try to abuse the system to get rewarded are either rewarded minimally or not at all. Again reducing the timer on crafted keys is fine as long as abusers are not rewarded the same as players that actively participate & for those that don't agree I will state are probably ones that abuses the current system, in other words players actively engaging wouldn't be effected negatively.
Currently with Heroics players can do little yet still have a chance at good stuff, I have gotten to a Tier 3 Heroic encounter in the SH just before the bosses were killed, got some hits in & got the Fadeless Walkers, I don't feel that is was right for that to happen since there were others there from the beginning & didn't get such a high value drop.
Currently with Heroic encounters Tanks/Healers have a much harder time getting credit for completion because seemingly damage dealt is a major if not the only factor contributing to determining the rewards. Incorporating the Skirmish type of system can help alleviate this though the system would also need to incorporate individual factors as well to determine rewards. If the groups overall gets Silver & a Tank took considerable amounts of damage, a healer healed for considerable amounts & or a buffer buffed which increased the output/input of other characters those factors should weigh in on a characters personal loot as well.
Completion rank + offense/defensive input/out = range of loot that can be obtained.
The players who come in & do very little even though they can hurt the overall completion rank won't completely negate the efforts of the other characters who should have considerably increased chances at better rewards while the characters who didn't put in much effort "should" have the overall completion rank/range of rewards that the completion rank would have granted lowered, this will help prevent players from coming into a completion rank (Gold, Silver, Bronze) & benefiting without contributing a considerable amount.
Completion rank (Gold) + low offense/defensive input/out = lower range of loot that can be obtained (granted solely of Silver or Bronze without an increased chance due to low input/output).
Again, even if I don't agree with a number of posts/perspectives, etc. doesn't mean I don't/can't see where others are coming from. If I see that a person is making statements from a "selfish"/easy street perspective I will & have addressed it, it doesn't mean that I am right nor that I feel that I am. Do I feel some posts here are nonsense, no.
The path(s) players choose to take determine how they progress. Using professions as an example, a player that leveled professions along the way has more opportunities to gain AD than one that did not (or at all) so when the choice comes up to:
1.) Do daily quests & wait on a 20 hr key, 2.) Obtaining LDK's with a few button presses 3.) Spending real money & obtaining LDK's
The first player has 3 choices, the other player has 2, one of those choices requiring time, the other money.
You can play Neverwinter as much or as little as you want, no one is rushing you (unless you are putting that pressure on yourself). Whenever you log back on you can pick up from where you left off, you won't be the only one at that same point in the game. Neverwinter isn't like other MMO's where players can just speedball the content & I feel some players are trying to turn it into that.
But what I do see is a lot of players pressuring themselves into reaching various goals, to complete content, etc. though to a point where they are not enjoying the game, for them I suggest they slow down.
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Comments
@ravenskya well, running elol doesn´t, VT: you can complete the DR weekly(slay three red wizards) there, and obsidian fragments(I think they´re called) can be traded for vanguard skripts...but how I prepare most of my VT keys is this: grab purple gauntlet, run the daily DR lair(which offer an acceptable chance at purple marks, and with a lot of luck even a GMOP, SMOP or bound artefakt, also nearly always drops unbound green or even blue refinement stones) it also gives 5 thayen scrolls and a thayen cipher...open campaign window, select the "trade thayen intellegence" task, which trades the thayen cipher for all 15 vanguard scripts I need for my key, this takes around 5 minutes, since I take it slow... leaves only the gold, for me the leadership profession + what I find while playing covers that...
So you are agreeing that eLoL is not a break even. This dungeon is now a losing venture. As are all of the others in that range.
AND you are stating that to make VT break even you need to level up leadership since gold is the limiting factor.
By the way - I ran VT last night, opened both chests, got a single bit of alliance gear, elemental seals and a rank 5 enchantment out of each of the chests. The whole dungeon was a net loss for me. Unless you can explain to me how 2200AD for salvaging the alliance ring, the rank 5 enchant, and the 30 or so elemental seals is worth the time and effort that goes into making the key...
I've stopped making keys completely.
How many hours do you play per day to get the 3 gold per VT key? how often are you running dungeons each night?
Have you started trying to upgrade the new relic weapons with the keys made in the sea of moving ice campaign? Because though I'm not thrilled with how this is playing out in the dungeons I run for fun. I'm about a weekend or two away from starting that bit - and I'm really unhappy with how I expect this change to affect my ability to upgrade these new relic weapons. I'm annoyed enough to ignore them and just run the campaign for the boons.
Yes I am making my points about dungeons that I really don't care about - I have 3 full lostmauth sets, a full valindra's set, a lathander's set and a full seldarine set. I don't NEED to run any of the dungeons. I LIKE to run the dungeons because that is what is fun to me. And when I run them I like to open the treasure chests at the end. If I want to upgrade these new weapons I have - apparently I am going to need a lot of keys. I'm told that there is a 1:10 drop rate on something I need to upgrade them, so now that means I will need to make 10 keys (or with cryptic math that's actually 52 keys) to get ONE of something that I will need many of. Think about that then go work on your leadership and defend the math on drop rates.
It's pretty bad when I'm in a chat and I just keep hearing "so which game are we headed to next and when does it come out?" instead of talk about how to get/upgrade some bit of gear or make it through some dungeon.
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
Before the key change, gold was completely worthless ime, and its actually nice that now its possible to put it to use or trade it for useful items.
I most often do two dungeons and two skirmishes, or 2 dungeons and one esot with key, since it allows me to get both piles of daily extra ad with one run. Sometimes I run some extra dungeons. And since I also have VIP keys every run is a plus.
The refinement items in the second chests in T1 dungeons, together with the other drops, are worth more to me than the campaign currencies involved in creating the key, now that I can either auction them or move them to a char that can still use them.
Regarding Relic weapons: I started running esva b4 making the investment of restoring the relic weapons, and after experiancing how unlikely it is to get all the orange marks, I´ve sold the restoration ingrediants I already had on the auction house instead.
Still, I´m running SoMI dailies and the weekly for the boons, and if reputation piles up I run a few esvas to not let it go to waste...got a few useful other things^^.
Also, am I the only one that is seeing absolutely no difference in dungeon and skirmish drops?? What was a +1 before in demo, throne.. whatever.. is a plus 1 now.
Good stuff.
@ravenskya
For me gold is not a problem, even without leadership (which rakes in more than enough), I pick up pretty much everything to refine/sell and it adds up fairly quickly. In about an hour or less I should have enough to make about 2-3 keys or more (depends on the area and how I'm running) all the while completing daily quests, etc.
The items gained from running a dungeon may not be "directly" useful but can be "milled around" and used for a number of things.
Items > salvage > RAD > AD
Items > RP
Seals > items > salvage > RAD > AD
Seals > items > RP
Enchants > AD or RP
There is value per dungeon run and overlooking it does not make them nonexistent...
If players don't want to upgrade their relic weapons (run the endgame dungeons) without having ran a considerable amount of endgame dungeons or at all that is their choice, they can rank them up to "ready to upgrade" or leave them at rank 1 and still be powerful though them making an argument about a system that they are opting out of makes little sense.
A number of players I interact with have been getting pretty good drops from the epic chests in dungeons (150 ilvl gear, artifacts, sellables, et.), with very few runs, not to mention getting those things (in a few runs) is more than worth the "value" of daily epic keys/5k epic keys/VIP epic keys.
As far as players that are talking about others game, I for one ask them why are they still playing Neverwinter, the dungeon key change is live, you don't want to do a little more to gain more so what's the point of playing if you don't have VIP?
@kalindra
Playing a tank/healer and going at quests alone will increase the time it takes to complete them significantly. I can pretty much guarantee that there is someone somewhere willing to help a tank/healer run daily quests so the people making the argument that it takes them longer when they seemingly are willfully running content alone makes very little sense to me. I look out to help tanks/healers because they a part of most dungeon groups, if they can't get in, well, you get it. They may not be part of any dungeons I run (due to queuing full/partial group) but they can be part of other groups and also helping someone with quests I'm running anyway doesn't hurt me at all.
As far as "fun" goes there are a number of things that some may or may not consider "fun" though I will state this, the end result from the efforts I have put in are quite "fun" to me, betting with other players on who pulled in the most from AH sales, who can level up a profession the fastest, who can do this or that is "fun" to me even though the journey to get there may or may not have been/be "fun".
Dungeons are not necessarily fun for me, I tend to run dungeons after I have finished with the daily quests I want to run for that session because how I look at it is I'm guaranteed to get something from making Guild vouchers (Boons, upgraded structures, etc.) or selling items on the AH and if I do those things first and get not so good dungeon drops I still have something else to show for from that session. I don't depend on dungeon drops to supply me with items/AD, that's why I invested into other parts of the game that are far more rewarding (in regard to AD) than dungeons IMO. Sometimes players have to do things they don't like to reach a goal(s) faster and if they don't yet complain, it makes little sense (if any) to me.
@raymond00713
The loot tables were added to and the drop rates increased, the lower valued items were not removed from the loot tables.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
My post was in response to dungeon/skirmish drops, there is a difference in them, the AH shows the results of the increased drop rate. A number of players can use the artifacts, etc. that are dropping more often (feeders, AD, etc.), not to mention the revenue from such drops and other things can fund a number of things like multiple dungeon runs which means more chances at those marks which will allow the already power relic weapons to become even stronger (they should be more rare).
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
You may not have been "blessed" as of yet but it is CLEARLY happening for a number of people meaning the system has improved.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Yep.
Just gate it all behind RNG and you are good to go. I know some people love gambling.
But you know, it never was my thing.
I was always bad with the games of luck and chance.
There should be a defined answer , if you are using a " maybe you get it " system.
Example : You run a dungeon for : __________ .
You will receive : ___THIS ___ and __THIS ___ if you do that.
If you do not do that then you ll receive ___THIS___ and ___THIS__ .
Not a " chance " to receive a HAMSTER , but in case you are LUCKY, you can receive a better HAMSTER in a year or so.
And look, that HAMSTER has a ribbon and it is pink too!
And next mod , guess what, it will be a yellow ribbon with sparkly violet shade , but that is not all, if you pay up now, you can maybe get a pink Unicorn ! JUst hurry up and pay , right now! We have only 3 more sets to go..
Does it remind you of something ?
This is exactly what NW is turning into.
A game of chance and luck.
Spending money or not spending money.
In the end it will reduce unwanted players who are not wanted .
You will grind. You will buy keys. And in the end you will do what they want or quit.
It is simple. And people like you love it. That is okay. We all have our own preferences.
But if you can not understand some of us will never agree to be happy with that kind of a system.
And if you can not respect our way of looking at things. That is not okay.
@trinity706#8838 Your argument to everything is "I don't have that problem" and though I appreciate you wanting to defend the game. You will have to eventually realize that if there aren't changes that you will be playing with a much lighter crowd on the PS4. PS4 players are among the most fickle on the planet - in March you have Mass Effect and Ghost Recon coming out. Those have multiplayer in them - which is the only reason some of my friends came back from FF15 - we promptly lost that same crew to ARK. In our guild - over 75% have preordered those two big named games. They are staying on Neverwinter hoping that it gets better before these release.
If it isn't better by then they, will be gone. Same thing happened in the Division - sure I know that they have fixed a lot of things in the Division and added a bunch of DLC's but we all felt burnt by the Devs when we left, and no one has had the desire to go back and even look at the new stuff.
When this game has turned into a job - which is the direction they are taking it - you will see a large % of the population leave. You will then be left with the people who would have been here anyway that dump money in and are truly bonded to the game. That will be a much smaller crew to run dungeons with, less people to find to run Tiamat with. Have you seen how quiet protectors enclave has gotten over the weekend? Only one or two people screaming about needing an IL4K for eLoL?
They are turning this game into a job. I have to run dailys on each character to acquire the stuff I need to progress, on top of that I need to fish and do heroic encounters. Along the way I need to pick up enough voninblod to recharge my gear (because that was a great freakin idea). Keep in mind that I have to use 40+ preservation wards to upgrade something at a 20% chance. All of that while (according to you) picking up every piece of trash on the ground to sell for gold so that I can make keys to open the chests for the ONE THING I WANT TO DO IN THE GAME - run dungeons.
We have, as a group elected not to go after restoring the new weapons - because we all already have jobs, and they actually pay us rather then asking us to pay them. We will wait for the river district and see if there are equal or better weapons in there - and how stupid the tasks are to get them. If they are less desirable then the stupid fishing weapons then it will be much easier for us all to leave the game in March because we will have progressed as far as we intend to.
MMO's are only fun when there are other people in them to play with - remember that.
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
I've also used the preview a bit and i think that with next mod online the feeling is tuning back to what i had before, is being nice to play the last days and frarm and GET the new equip...
I hope that the feeling i got from one night in the preview is real...
About this changes:
In the end that is my opinion, is good for more casual player (that don't play more than 2 dungeons a day) and is really bad for those hardcore that like to run a lot of times the same content...
Don't get me wrong, i used to be a much more hardoce player ( i got my drowned set in one weekend and that was 100 crab HE's) and i remember i've leveled 3 toons from 60 to 70 in one week (monday to friday) because i was in vacation ...
I just feel that the game change he's style and for me is not a bad change, is the first time i really have a reason to play my alts in a loooooong time, now i get some nice gear for them and i HAVE to play them to get more dungeons...
i'm not a hardcore, i dontplay everiday, i usually play 2 or 3 hours when i play and i gor the mask from Tuern, the boots from Kessels, on energon from DR skirmish, on armor from Throne D. Gods, one armor from Temple of Spider and a good buch of +4 rings (i got a useless +5 that became salvage, a store to trade those would be nice...)
was reaally hard to someone that play the time i play to get even +4 rings...
I really cant complain...
OBS. i still dont think this will sell keys in zen store, but i belive it may sell some vips...
I also stated that players who are not dungeoneers can get AD which used to be tucked away in dungeons requiring four other players and also "RNG" to get the things they need/want.
Do you/others not see any of the above as positive things for the game as a whole?
Do you/others not respect my personal opinion and or the opinions of others who are not opposed to the dungeon key change? Let's make this clear, just because a person doesn't oppose something doesn't mean they like it.
If anyone here cannot answer yes to those two questions then you all are doing the very thing @araneax just stated is not okay ("And if you can not respect our way of looking at things. That is not okay.").
Where have I stated that I buy keys, even more so with real money? Where have I stated that this change was the answer? I have in so many words pointed out the positive aspects/results of the change myself and others have witnessed and what players can do to be able to gain the things they want/need. I can see how the change effects a number of players though I also see opportunity for others. I have even agreed on some of the points made here by players who don't like the change, I'm seeing it from multiple perspectives but when someone makes posts and doesn't not like the change they come under fire and their posts are not given the respect the nay sayers are seemingly demanding for theirs.
Again, this is not a bash Cyrptic/Developer thread and if people can't handle opinions and views that differ from their own then essentially they can't effectively be constructive in this thread.
@ravenskya
My argument in part consists of what I had done in-game since I started playing that eventually put me in the position to be able to run multiple dungeons per session if so I choose, in other words a response to the people complaining about the price of keys (which has been reduced, about 15k per 5).
I have seen fewer players and less activity so I'm not oblivious to it though I do not agree with the "only way forward is to buy keys with money" type statements which are seemingly one sided, biased and not respecting those that do what they do to get over "hurdles" other than spending money showing others that there are alternatives and so many seemingly stand in front of those "hurdles" waiting for something to happen and not even attempting to jump, "I ONLY like dungeons so to heck with that other stuff". How can players that strictly follow a beaten path in a game expect to succeed when things change? The game has changed, if the changes stick and players leave because they don't want to change up what they are used to I wouldn't blame Cryptic for the most part, I would focus more on the players who seemingly want the game their "easy street" way since they are things that take minimal effort to get going that will alleviate a lot of self inflicted stress later on (starting professions tasks and letting them run).
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Oh honey - it's not about the keys... it's about the direction that everything took with this latest update.
-Healers are having a hard time progressing because everything has to be done via a DPS test - which most can't pass
-You cant queue into a dungeon without a healer unless you private queue
-Now if your healer drops out - you have to 4 man the dungeon while it hunts forever for a replacement healer (4 of the elol I ran this weekend we 4 manned and one we 3 manned when the tank and healer disconnected together)
-Since healers can't progress without being carried - there is an extreme shortage of them to get into the new dungeons and higher level content
-Fishing... they seem stuck on fishing... 3 things now with fishing in them (winter festival, bryn and now sea of moving ice) and most of us don't like fishing we like dungeons and dragons and fighting demons and rescuing people and looting treasure.
-Sure now the drop rates of things are supposedly better, none of us actually knows what the drop rates are. I still haven't gotten anything new to drop from all of the dungeons I've run other than the orcus hat.
-My friends that are attempting to upgrade the new weapons have pointed out that the drop rate of what we need to upgrade these weapons is so low that it's almost pointless
-The majority of the chests still don't = the value of the key, even in salvage (they would have pre-salvage nerf but not anymore)... and now the chests are hosed up - it takes up to 25 minutes for what you got out of a chest to pop into your inventory. Half the time you can't even see what you got until it shows up later and you suddenly discover your inventory is full from a dungeon you ran a half an hour ago.
-Yes it makes me happy that my friends are getting companions and mounts out of the chest - that does make the dungeon run far more palatable in the end.
-I still don't like that the weapons and armors are still bland when it comes to who is running what. There is no originality - every IL4k that you see is running the same gear with maybe different enchants.
-a 20% chance to upgrade should not regularly take 40+ preservation wards to upgrade
-Keys shouldn't take 20 hours to make, and shouldn't take more ingredients than you can acquire in a single set of dailys
-Either gold needs to be taken out of the key making requirements - or there needs to be gold in the chests as well
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
Most of what you're complaining about has nothing to do with the key change too. It has more to do with problems that have been there for years and no one complained about them until the key change because apparently getting 1 extra piece of salvage (and an artifact every 200+ runs) was enough to make all these problems bearable.
It is your and my best interest to break even on dungeon runs. Cryptic tends to disagree and wants us to spend ZEN on keys for opening boxes and have a chance to get a valuable item. I don't like it, but I can understand it.
I am free to leave at any time once I find the key to open those shackle on my leg. (the keys in the ZEN store don't fit, I tried them already)
This change can make som BIS players happy if they kept all the keys from vip. But its still a PITA for legendary marks and a gamebreaker for new players.
1. you need roughly 30% resistance ignored to do full dmg when up against level 70-72 mobs(bosses can go up to 36%, but we´re talking about soloing single player stuff here) and roughly 50% against lvl 73 mobs(55% for frost giants). Sadly that means either a second set of gear with arp on it, or being in a guild with stables(3000 armor penetration at guild rank 10, stable rank 5 for example).
2. even if you have enough resistance ignored, debuffs decreasing enemy dmg resistance(defense, mitigation, the game is rather inconsistent in what is called) still increase the damage the target takes.
3. some of our powers can control or at least interrupt enemies who´re about to do something nasty, like heal themseves or other monsters or use some otherwise annoying move.
4. the powers and thouse passives where you can only have two slotted, which are best for soloing are different ones than thouse for your role in multiplayer content. But every single class has enough tools.
On an Oathbound Paladin for example: "aura of courage" gives some nice extra dmg based on our hit point number, like adding around 3k dmg to every hit of randiant strike(our multi target at will power) its own dmg is something like 1.7k(varies with rank and the weapon used) so thats almost 3x. putting a cricle of power on the floor adds another 30% dmg, plus either dmg resist or better self heals for you depending on paragon. Vow of enmity really speeds up melting tough targets(60% on rank 4, yay, it really works now...on PC...not sure if its already fixed on other platforms). Templars wrath for burst dmg and control, and a nice bonus depending on paragon. I´m useing "aura of wisdom" as my second, haven´t experimented with aura of solitude yet... might be an option.
@trinity706#8838
I will answer what you asked :
Do you/others not see any of the above as positive things for the game as a whole?
It is in between. And it is going to negative more as the time passes.
In order to buy something from AH , you actually need to run dungeons/ heroics to receive something you can actually sell. You keep forgetting that.
You need to run dungeons and kill bosses in order to receive loot you can salvage and loot you can sell on AH.
Answer me this. What happens when people stop running dungeons ?
You keep saying how things on AH right now are cheap.
That is correct. It is cheaper.
For how long until people decide they had enough and demand gets higher then loot received?
The prices will sky rocket again.
And we will be back to where we came from.
Except You ll have to spend your keys.
We are now trying to show them it is more negative then positive.Do we expect a change ? Some of us do, some of us do not. We shall see what happens. Correct ?
If i managed to capture the point you are trying to make , since there is always a possibility i am wrong and your point is right. I do try to appreciate your opinion even if it is different from mine. And some things i have applied to my guild and alliance. We all try our best and no one can say you are not doing the same.
However, what grinds my gear is the following :
You keep talking about how you are offering viable solutions to the players. You are. But.
You yourself, refuse to do the things if they do not suit you. And if we think in a the same way we are categorized as people who want least effort required ?
You " feel" the solutions offered in here, are not reasonable.
With that i would even agree if you did not mention one thing.
We offer a solution as for example, lowering the time for crafted keys.
And you say :
We say it is too much to spend money on keys and your opinion is :
We say it costs us too much time and effort for smaller prizes and the grind is hideous and you say :
If players run zones alone of course it will take them longer, I'm assuming this is the case here since I haven't seen anyone mention it. Again, players don't have to run daily quest for currency, start a key and run dungeons each session they play, save the keys for a day you can run straight dungeons and or DF, Influence, etc. (just a suggestion). Seems to me a number of players are consciously making it harder on themselves.
We all are basically saying nonsense and you do not understand where we are coming from.
We are making unnecessary obstacles on our path ?
Yes there is more players here not agreeing with you.
I do not think any of us are looking down on you. On the contrary i feel it is a good way of looking at the other side of the coin when you are not capable of doing it yourself.
If someone tried to flame you , that is on him or her.
I do respect your opinion ,sometimes you poke people and then expect no reaction.
That is all.
I put spoilers in for the people who do not wish to read my really long post...
I'm stuck to 2950 since black Friday until march and i've done the maths, i'm not sure, i'll have enought rp to go past 3100 and finally run my 1st fbi...
So far since update i got :
- orcus shard
- 6 demonlord visage ( yeah 6)
- 2 epics mounts binded
- 1 green artifact sold 250 000
- 1 blue artifact worth 40 000
- 2 green pets binded
I needed the orcus shard so no income from there, the 250 000 i got from selling an artifact are gone in buying 3 x 5 ldk wich gave me nothing back to sell...
I couldn't wait till march to updgrade shard at least to epic because i runed so many CN to get it that keeping it in my bags 2 months more wasn't a option...
Now, i'm left with very few rp points ( i have mount with wanderer and 2 r10 hoard dargon, 1 r10 fey enchant. They work well a few minutes then not at all for a long time and then it works again. It's like there is a cooldown or something i don't really understand)
Anyway I just hoped that i could play an hour or so and then play an other game so that it would not feel like i'm working for Cryptic and paying for that.
Unfortunately that's not my experience and for many others too.
While i'm grinding and grinding i'm not playing other amazing games.
I think maybe i just got sick of how mmo works nowadays maybe i'm too old for that playstyle, i don't know...
I got sick with Destiny, i got sick with The Division and now i'm sick of Neverwinter.
I log, i run 1 cn and an other dunjeon, 2 skirmish, i progress throught the new campaigns and that's all basically.
We live in a world where everyone want and do things faster.
Maybe playing a game during years everyday for hours isnt what we want anymore, i'm sure that's not what i want at least...
Anyway.
I hope it'll get better for those who w
still want to play fully the game.
(PS: Don't answer to me please, it was just some kind of conclusion not to create a debate or asking for solutions from anyone)
Keys may not be part of your particular argument but it is for others & for some, a major one.
As for gold, again, leadership does well, if players didn't level it as they were playing it's still a opportunity at this point (x2 Profession XP was not too long ago & I'm assuming not many partook). Leadership takes no additional resources other than the profession people & eventually two other items that are reusable there's little "excuse" in regard to that (gold).
Picking up drops & selling may be a "tedious" thing to do but it grants silver & or gold per item at higher levels. Yes it takes effort but not putting in the effort will more than likely result in "0" gold so not doing so means a player essentially has no room to complain.
As far as crafted keys, name a key(s) that the appropriate daily quests/effort won't grant per day...
AFA pwards, I keep a running log of how many preservation wards it took/takes me to upgrade various things & for the most part the results are pretty dern good. A number of times I have upgraded at 1% chance using a small amount of wards, yes sometimes the higher percentages take more but getting those 1%'s with such few wards more than evens it out for me. Claiming percentages taking a considerable amount of wards regularly is a bit far-fetched. As many times as I have gotten 1%'s & others fairly quickly until I spend more than what I have saved in AD using preservation wards instead of getting coalescent wards the numbers are in my favor.
In other words for every coalescent ward not gotten, even if a player spends half the value of the CW on preservation wards & successfully upgrades that players has NOT lost.
AFA a shortage of support classes, @urabask made a very good point.
Seems like a number of players are attributing a number of "unrelated" effects to the key change with little supporting details. I sometimes assist tanks & healers, sometimes I ask would they like to join our Guild since apparently theirs isn't assisting them, sometimes they join, sometimes they don't & sometimes I help or I don't but overall, support classes CHOOSING to run alone then complain makes little sense.
@defiantone99
What do you attribute the Shard of Orcus' Wand going from about 5m to about 1.6m AD to? They didn't pop out of thin air...
Clearly drop rates have increased though players are claiming they haven't because they themselves have not personally experienced it even though the results are right there in front for all to see.
@araneax
Though you are quoting a number of my posts out of context...
Professions don't need dungeons & provide the first profession person for players to use, how they continue from there is their choice. there are a number of non-end game dungeons that are relatively easy to complete even without a high level in the group, they all grant RAD & various items to do whatever with (chest or no chest). My suggestions, etc. can be applied to a character of pretty much any level.
What happens when everyone stops running dungeons? More than likely it won't, there will pretty always be players/Guilds that run dungeons. Even if dungeon runs were stopped cold turkey (highly unlikely) there are still other aspects of the game that players enjoy (Guild building, skirmishes, leveling, professions). Again when players focus on one or a few things & it/they change to their dislike they have put themselves in a position of not liking the game as a whole even though they don't participate in the game as a whole.
Speculating on the future is well & all but trying to use such speculation by applying it to what is happening now can only go so far. You are speculating that AH prices will rise, you don't know if they will & or by how much but are trying to use it to support your argument (which you can), but it will probably be argued against until it comes to pass.
Correct, we shall see what happens.
The difference is things I choose not to do, I don't complain about because I chose not to do them, players here are choosing not to do things for whatever reason(s) & complaining about the outcome & trying to use "fun" & or time per session they play to support their statements (which I'm not arguing against for the most part), what I am arguing against are the results of actions in which players take & are complaining about in light of the alternatives available.
If I see a different route to reach the same end that I find more suitable I more likely will take it, on the other hand you have players that see the multiple options & choose seemingly depending on the level of effort required & or what they like to do (not faulting them for that) & or they choose a way that clearly takes more time & more effort then complain about it, if a person reads those & addresses it then there it is. What a player prefers to do in game & or the time they have per session does not shield them from opinions or criticism on what they do in-game.
Do you really think/feel the suggestions about reducing the amount of time to craft are for all keys or predominantly Greater Demonic keys (that are the only key that can be utilized since the other keys don't get enough currency granted per day for more than one)?
How much effort does it take to stand around 1 of 2 demonic encounters for it to spawn, get a few hits & receive credit, queue into a skirmish & do the same & or complete a few daily quests & start a key? Are those not examples of "minimal effort" for a key that gives the opportunity for a reward valued much higher than the effort it took to craft in the first place?
Do I feel all players behave this way, no, though I see it pretty much every session I play. Players are doing those things now (negatively engaging in encounters/skirmishes) & reducing the crafted key timer will reward those players even more which I don't agree with, I'm not against reducing the crafted key timer, that's why I suggested a reward system like the one with the skirmish but taking into account offensive/defensive input/output to determine rewards that way players who try to abuse the system to get rewarded are either rewarded minimally or not at all. Again reducing the timer on crafted keys is fine as long as abusers are not rewarded the same as players that actively participate & for those that don't agree I will state are probably ones that abuses the current system, in other words players actively engaging wouldn't be effected negatively.
A post from another thread
Again, even if I don't agree with a number of posts/perspectives, etc. doesn't mean I don't/can't see where others are coming from. If I see that a person is making statements from a "selfish"/easy street perspective I will & have addressed it, it doesn't mean that I am right nor that I feel that I am. Do I feel some posts here are nonsense, no.
The path(s) players choose to take determine how they progress. Using professions as an example, a player that leveled professions along the way has more opportunities to gain AD than one that did not (or at all) so when the choice comes up to:
1.) Do daily quests & wait on a 20 hr key,
2.) Obtaining LDK's with a few button presses
3.) Spending real money & obtaining LDK's
The first player has 3 choices, the other player has 2, one of those choices requiring time, the other money.
@diloul31
You can play Neverwinter as much or as little as you want, no one is rushing you (unless you are putting that pressure on yourself). Whenever you log back on you can pick up from where you left off, you won't be the only one at that same point in the game. Neverwinter isn't like other MMO's where players can just speedball the content & I feel some players are trying to turn it into that.
But what I do see is a lot of players pressuring themselves into reaching various goals, to complete content, etc. though to a point where they are not enjoying the game, for them I suggest they slow down.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen