@diloul31 Pretty much all of my other posts contained the same overall concept... Where had I mentioned that players were doing it wrong? Have I not been giving suggestions on how to accomplish the same things without relying on dungeons? If any of my posts offended anyone or seemed inconsiderate I apologize because it was not my intent.
The better service and low prices can bring in more customers but even then it's not guaranteed, it can appeal to a lot but for sure not everyone, it's like having a business with great customer service and low prices but overall bad products, sure it will attract the "penny pinchers" and the occasional spenders but overall it won't.
Lowering base Zen prices too much and or period will effect how much they are bringing in (they already do so temporarily via sales and coupons which drop quite frequently and did with the 250 Zen LDK's). So for every 5 LDK's bought via cash there's 50 Zen worth not coming in per transaction as it did before. Every 5 sets of keys bought with cash Cryptic essentially gave a set away, though that set is going to the players.
Just like with the suggestions about lowering the crafted key timers. 20 hrs for a key from a "minimal" amount of effort (a few quests, even faster in a group) in my opinion is more than reasonably, especially when taking into account the numbers of ways to generate large amounts of AD to get keys much faster. If campaigns didn't have the craftable key option I'm pretty sure I would feel different. Cryptic is giving players a number of options to reach a goal(s) and what I don't agree with is players choosing the "least effort requiring route(s)" and complaining that they aren't getting what they want.
@ravenskya How about stacking keys for a few days to give yourself more room to run dungeons without having to always quest first to get the requirements for the next day? Or even save them for the weekend or a day you have more breathing room to play? You don't have to always:
Quest > Start key > Use key > Repeat
You can
Quest > Start key > Repeat a comfortable number of times
Then
Use key > Use key > Quest > Start key
or any combination while having additional keys ready to use. You can also spend about 3k AD here and there for items that sell for higher amounts of gold.
Matter of fact I'm willing to help you at least here and there with questing (even better if when you get on to play I'm in that groove), sometimes I run zones on multiple characters. What about that?
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
I appreciate your offer - but in the same vein you made my point.
My friends and I are dungeon crawlers. We went through the campaigns already and only 1 of us likes fishing (not me). We are now put in a position where we have to do parts of the game we aren't as fond of and do it more frequently in order to get the treasure we are hunting in the parts of the game we like. Basically we are being told - you like this part of the game? Then do this other part that you don't like for a few hours every night and THEN you can play the part that you like on the weekends for a few hours.
Half of the group is already drifting into other games. The chats have stopped being about getting the next best BIS gear on Neverwinter and are instead about two games that come out in March. This is what is making me sad - I loved this game. I wanted to be part of it for a long time. I wouldn't have built a 125 person guild if I hadn't planned on being here for a while. But we are dungeon crawlers and everything about this game seems to want to force us out of our happy place.
Am I personally fine with the changes? No, but at the same time I've never gotten anything good out of this game... my RNG on here is terrible (yeah 48 preservation wards on a 20% chance - I'd like to slap someone over that math). I've known all along that I wouldn't get anything out of this game. So frankly getting nothing good out of one chest or getting nothing good out of two chests is all the same to me - I am here for as long as my friends are here.
And they are slowly disappearing. Even the head of our alliance is talking about abandoning ship... I want them to make it better before that happens.
Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold" Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
@ravenskya I'm sorry that the change is effecting you all in that manner. Would invite you all to our Guild/Alliance though I wish not to insult you by doing so.
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
@trinity you keep defending pw because they are a business adn they need to make money. but we are the "customers" and want to see a successful game because we like this game and want to continue playing it. the problem is they are making some serious blunders. there are ways they can make money and keep their player base happy instead of HAMSTER their playerbase over and making them very unhappy. We dissent here because there is the very far chance someone might actually take a hint and change things a little in a path that might actually make their player base happy. there is always more than one way to a solution and pw seems to have a way of picking the most insulting and heavy handed. they lack the understanding that you have to give value for the money demanded in a f2p game. Dungeons are the core of this game and right now the dungeons are (if you disagree or agree) pay to play. the cost of a key exceeds teh amount you are likely to get from it. the dungeons are also part of a bigger scheme of get the ad this way to "improve your character" obviously this doesn't hold true for the end end game players but the majority of the player base is NOT yet in the 3k range. some do NOT have vip. the second chests are even more of a loss in value except for maybe cn.
they need to ungate that and find a way to make the player happy and make money from us. I still think they should just ad a 50 pack of keys for 5 dollars outside the ingame zen store. its a low enough price point that even the grinders would be happy with it and something that would work for a repeat purchase. and just ungate the keys you can make with grind.
Just because a business is a business does not mean they have to make stoopid business decisions to make money. you make LESS money when you make hamhanded business decisions than you would if your business decisions are still somewhat generous towards the customer.
Yes people can choose to not give money.. and a lot more are goign to choose no to giving money than choosing to give money with business decisions like these.
@diloul31 Pretty much all of my other posts contained the same overall concept... Where had I mentioned that players were doing it wrong? Have I not been giving suggestions on how to accomplish the same things without relying on dungeons? If any of my posts offended anyone or seemed inconsiderate I apologize because it was not my intent.
The better service and low prices can bring in more customers but even then it's not guaranteed, it can appeal to a lot but for sure not everyone, it's like having a business with great customer service and low prices but overall bad products, sure it will attract the "penny pinchers" and the occasional spenders but overall it won't.
so they need to change their services to offer good products. it's in their control. they're going to get a lot more money by changing some things than keeping it as it is.
Lowering base Zen prices too much and or period will effect how much they are bringing in (they already do so temporarily via sales and coupons which drop quite frequently and did with the 250 Zen LDK's). So for every 5 LDK's bought via cash there's 50 Zen worth not coming in per transaction as it did before. Every 5 sets of keys bought with cash Cryptic essentially gave a set away, though that set is going to the players.
well you could say that, but it's not really so. it's enticing people to buy more. they're probably going to get many more sales than hypothetical lost one for that key price reduction than they would have gotten before. the lower your price the bigger your market. you make a lot more in nickle and dime sales than trying to ask for a donkey load every time. their prices are egregious as a general rule. even 250 is too much for this particular product. its NOT cheap it's over priced. really over priced.
Just like with the suggestions about lowering the crafted key timers. 20 hrs for a key from a "minimal" amount of effort (a few quests, even faster in a group) in my opinion is more than reasonably, especially when taking into account the numbers of ways to generate large amounts of AD to get keys much faster. If campaigns didn't have the craftable key option I'm pretty sure I would feel different. Cryptic is giving players a number of options to reach a goal(s) and what I don't agree with is players choosing the "least effort requiring route(s)" and complaining that they aren't getting what they want.
well glad you think so. but 99.9 percent of us DON"T think so. yeah you can generate ad and buy the keys but it's a terrible value for your money and do you REALLY think fishing is NOT a grind????? honestly????? for the price of the keys you can just go out and buy the fun things in this game that you "might" get from a drop in a dungeon and come out money ahead.. what's the point of playing the game at all then? if people want to spend their time making money and grinding JUST to make money sure they can. they've always had that ability but that's NOT THE POINT.. the point is people enjoy hanging with their friends running the dungeons and seeing what they get. PWE has basically made that hard for people to do now and they're going to lose the casuals over this and they NEED the casuals. we need the casuals. it should be easy and free to run the dungeons with friends. after a certain point in the game it should be the POINT of the game. running mindless dailies should NOT be the point of the game. this game does start to feel like WORK after awhile that somehow we're PAYING to do.. that's backwards. reallly backwards and some people are smart enough to say whoa nellie.. ENOUGH.. some say whip me more pls. I don't get the masochists..
@thefiresidecat I'm defending the other opportunities other than dungeons players can tap into to afford pretty much whatever is they want. The examples I stated about revenue, etc., etc. are pretty much how Cryptic is looking at it, as well as the opinions on the forums though they still hold the decision on what to do about it.
If a number of players stop spending cash and Neverwinter stays producing revenue then to Cryptic they will probably see it as they are still doing pretty good (a number of players are complaining on the forums though we are still bringing in considerable amounts of revenue).
Again (agree or disagree), they are ways to continue running multiple dungeons and improving ones character without spending a dime, this will pretty much remain true as long as the AD exchange exists with Zen in it. Whether a player wants to or not the other options still exist and ignoring them doesn't make them go away.
The "core" of this game depends on the player.
Again a number of players here think that the SOLE purpose of the key change was to make money and nothing else, no player here knows the reasons behind the key change, only speculation and people are basing their negative thoughts and feelings off of this speculation.
Again, don't spend cash and let's see how far it goes...
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Yes with no exchange it will be problem, but right now you can save some zen and use it later. Honestly even without zen exchange, 9.99 e per mounth for game you enjoy isnt too much. About dungeons.. I have no problem get party in guild or channels, but yea I get what are you trying to say, without keys is no point to run dungeons. Did you run ecc,etos all day before ? I doubt it. Maybe a few times for salvage but you dont grind it, there was no point to do it. So I take this little chance for something then nothing. Dude If you are really play this game from beta you know you cant have big expectations, just play it till you get bored. Its never gonna be better q:D
I got to admit something.
Actually i did grind ECC . Not for salvage, or the money. We actually did it in order to learn that dungeon and to achive no deaths. You remember how hard that was. My skills where not so high and IL was not so important back then.
And tru that. No big expectations are needed. I do know that. I am just sad my guild is losing players over something that could have been solved long time ago. But it was not. It was " fixed " now. When NW is not on its beggining. You see my point i hope.
@thefiresidecat I'm defending the other opportunities other than dungeons players can tap into to afford pretty much whatever is they want. The examples I stated about revenue, etc., etc. are pretty much how Cryptic is looking at it, as well as the opinions on the forums though they still hold the decision on what to do about it.
If a number of players stop spending cash and Neverwinter stays producing revenue then to Cryptic they will probably see it as they are still doing pretty good (a number of players are complaining on the forums though we are still bringing in considerable amounts of revenue).
Again (agree or disagree), they are ways to continue running multiple dungeons and improving ones character without spending a dime, this will pretty much remain true as long as the AD exchange exists with Zen in it. Whether a player wants to or not the other options still exist and ignoring them doesn't make them go away.
The "core" of this game depends on the player.
Again a number of players here think that the SOLE purpose of the key change was to make money and nothing else, no player here knows the reasons behind the key change, only speculation and people are basing their negative thoughts and feelings off of this speculation.
Again, don't spend cash and let's see how far it goes...
Do you think I have a basic lack of understanding about how they are probably looking at things or where you are coming from? seriously? using phraseology like that is an emotional tool to try and make the other party think you somehow have a higher hand than they do without actually having any such thing. LOL.
condescension.. lovely stuff.
Yes. it's a business we get that. Yes, they make business"ey" decisions we get that.. Derp.. seriously derp.
the problem is they make BAD business decisions and we are trying to HELP them here.
and yes people can have different reasons for playing this game but the core really is to run dungeons and do dragons.. thus it's a dungeons and dragons game. yes you can make money in game without spending a dime.. not the point of the people in this thread.
and thanks for the suggestion not to spend cash and see how far it goes. I hadn't thought of that. (again derp really? ty capt obvious )
and yes the sole purpose of this change is to make more money. The key change was a cash grab. There is no other explanation for it. Every year at this time, there is a drastic cash grab that pisses off the player base and loses a good portion of them. it has been handled as usual, not so well. Although kudos to them for at least making an improvement in the overall drop table per player outrage.
I think really what the problem here is that trinity is a PS4 player. And as such hasn't been around long enough to see and experience first hand as many blunders, terrible business decisions, and blatant money grabs as PC has seen, and to a lesser extent XBox. It's easy to be optimistic about and have faith in something that hasn't burned you yet.
So after a couple hundred Edemos and Demos ran since change, still no +5 drop. Good job increased drop rate. Still waiting on a +5 Brutality...
Increased from 0.0010 to 0.0015 or something in the quality, supposedly, since they didn't claim to have doubled or tripled the chance. That's not somethings many of us will notice, even if we had a correctly implemented RNG at our disposal.
It's ten times the original drop rate so that's not even possible.
My apologies, next time I may include my lovely "general statement" divider to denote when I am addressing readers in general, seemingly since it is so easy for someone to take them personal even though I did not use pronouns such as "you".
If you are pulling "condescension" and or that I am trying to invoke an emotional response simply from words on a screen (how does one allow that to happen to themselves negatively? especially on the forums...) I think that you are reading FAR too much into my statements...
However one may look at their "business decisions", let us remember, from the outside looking in, the "numbers" (player base/revenue) will tell the tale for the most part. Again if the numbers remain even after the key change things will probably stay the same or similar. Now if someone from within can win the shot callers over in favor of the players that would be all well and good, though as I previously stated, if they are satisfied with the numbers then good luck with that.
Again who knows for a fact that the key change was made SOLELY, not partially, to increase revenue and can provide evidence to support such claims? Anybody? Just me and the crickets then. If players are used to the "ebb and flow", why would they not prepare themselves for it (rhetorical)?
So not opting into "money grabs" is not an option on any version of Neverwinter? Are players that into this game that changes can/are effecting them "negatively" in various ways? I'm just asking. I mean I enjoy Neverwinter, it's a fun game for me and for the most part that's how I treat it, though such "money grabs" if I choose not to partake in them I just use AD instead of allowing it to hinder my progress and or cause me "discomfort" as many players seemingly do.
I meant it as I stated it. Let me clarify it though, there are items on the trade house for around 3k AD that sell for 6+ gold a stack, the gold the player I was addressing was stating they were often short of. It can take less than 10 minutes to get gold if AD is used (if no AD is available).
For me it's any map for toons < 2k, any may with a tank or healer < 2.5k and any of the new map, WOD or IWD with any toon.
Group up.
If players run zones alone of course it will take them longer, I'm assuming this is the case here since I haven't seen anyone mention it. Again, players don't have to run daily quest for currency, start a key and run dungeons each session they play, save the keys for a day you can run straight dungeons and or DF, Influence, etc. (just a suggestion). Seems to me a number of players are consciously making it harder on themselves.
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Keys arent the only poblem on PS4... Just before key update, it was easy and fast to join a random group with queue even if most of times it would means no tank/heal .
It's absolutely not possible anymore...
Since the fix, the queue take so looooong and end with no results... Meanwhile you spam chat at town and even with my 3k sw dps/buff, so few groups invit me for a simple CN ( or shoulf i say "us" because i see others spamming with no results)...
Maybe on PC throuht the years, people had time to make viables tanks/heals as rerolls... But on PS4 it's a whole different story for us...
Most of players start the game by creating a dps, it make sense, it's just brutal fun...
It's an other reason i don't understand Cryptic, they trow a stone in the water without even cosidering consequences...
These days even more than the key problem, the lack of successfull queueing is what make quit the game...
Basically on PS4, there is many players that dont have vip keys, dont have ldk and mixed with the queue fix, you spend more time searching for a group than playing...
Good game Cryptic, you nailed it.. You nailed it like a coffin i mean...
So not opting into "money grabs" is not an option on any version of Neverwinter? Are players that into this game that changes can/are effecting them "negatively" in various ways? I'm just asking. I mean I enjoy Neverwinter, it's a fun game for me and for the most part that's how I treat it, though such "money grabs" if I choose not to partake in them I just use AD instead of allowing it to hinder my progress and or cause me "discomfort" as many players seemingly do.
Again, I think it is a fundamental lack of experience with how changes have effected the game and players over the past almost 4 years now that players who only started to play on PS4 are unaware of, that is the problem. Of course no one has to opt into money grabs and bad calls. No one has to grind content they don't enjoy, and no one has to fall victim to the bait and switch tactics they've pulled on us from time to time. Unfortunately newer people aren't aware of how bad it can get, and fall victim to it, making it worthwhile for them cryptic try and pull them in the first place, and players familiar with it see it for what it is and already sick with it become more fed up. When one of us is effected negatively, we are all effected negatively. Every player that leaves because they are sick of it diminishes the gameplay of everyone else in some way. Contrary to a post you made earlier where you asserted that you think millions of people play the game, the numbers are nowhere near that close. I cannot say for XBox and PS4, but it's been suggested that PC has no more than a few thousand players in game at any given time, beyond the release of new mods and content. I'd be surprised if we had more than 20,000 unique visitors a day. Players have left en masse before from terrible decisions like Mod 6 release on PC, and we have never truly recovered from it. I know people who after a few days of the key change gave up because they didn't see anything having gotten better. Some are so used to bad decisions and negative outcomes of meddling with the game they just assume it, and don't even give it a chance.
The anger and dismay you are seeing here is a result of enjoying and being passionate about the game, and not wanting to see it get worse, and wanting more people to play.
There is also the principle of the matter as well. You may not think that using ADs to purchase zen is buying into it, but in a way it is. Most of that Zen was purchased by someone else using real money, and you buying it is part of a cycle that ultimately rewards cryptic and pwe for subpar content, a groundhogs day of grindfest, money-grabs, and bait and switch maneuvers. I've spent money on the game before, but I will not until I see the state of the game improving. For the same reason I refuse to use the ZAX because of that.
In any case if you want some up to date examples of bait and switch, swing by the Neverwinter Preview discussion area and look for a thread about the new weapons.
Of course I'm going to mention being part of a Guild/Alliance.
If a player chooses to stay in an inactive Guild/Alliance that is on them. When players leave, replace them, if your Guild isn't providing what you are looking for find another. Of course there are the instances where players have friends, etc., but they are faced with staying in a ghost town or going somewhere more fruitful.
Queue with a full group and you will almost instantly get into a dungeon, or queue with as many as possible to cut down on the wait time. Add people from past runs (tanks/healers/DPS) to your friends list so you know when they are online and possibly available. Standing around in Protector's Enclave or wherever instead of doing all a player can to ease queuing is self inflicted stress.
As far as the Stronghold XP "abuse" goes some players depended on it so much that when it was changed they couldn't recover. I hope no one really thought getting to lvl 70 within a few hours and skipping major portions of the game/experience was intended...
Players can still help each other lvl up characters by questing together, that has always been available to players even before the instant lvl 70 Zen option. The players that went through the leveling process outside of the Stronghold were unaffected by the Stronghold XP cut, only the players that took part in it felt the difference.
Seeing players focusing on particular aspects of the game almost certainly the developers, etc. will try to figure out a way to monetize it (players want to lvl up fast, ok, let's introduce a Zen item that will grant the same end result for a price). Just like the players who find bugs/exploits and put it all over the internet, guess what, if the developers didn't know before they sure will after.
No matter what has been introduced in the Zen market the fact still remains that players can earn them via in-game activity, as long as this remains true players aren't forced to spend money.
Again, I think it is a fundamental lack of experience with how changes have effected the game and players over the past almost 4 years now that players who only started to play on PS4 are unaware of, that is the problem.
There is also the principle of the matter as well. You may not think that using ADs to purchase zen is buying into it, but in a way it is.
So PWE/Cyrptic are the only one's that provide a F2P MMO that has had similar issues?
It has been mentioned before somebody somewhere is still buying Zen (one side) for F2P's to convert AD into (the other side) and the F2P's are not buying the Zen themselves which is my point.
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
@trinity706#8838 the history is pretty solidly there. and you can see the results without having any actual data pulled. last year at this time there was coalgate. where they did bait and switch with coalwards in the tarmalune store. they told us all that the price would be going down on coalwards significantly. so people hoarded their tarm bars, and sold their enchants before the change and then instead of lowering the price they removed them. there are giant threads about it go read them. they will delineate the details better than me. it was a clear cash grab to get you to buy things from the zen store. over night after that change was implemented the zax skyrocketed. guilds became ghost towns. the way this change was implemented won't show such dramatic results. I think it will be more of a trickle because people are curious about the new rng.. but I do think there will be a change. there was something earlier than that on xbox but I don't remember now. the pc people have more of a history than we do as mentioned. but yeah. I remember the first time it happened. (the thing I dont' remember now) I was also bucking for them thinking people were overreacting. there is a pattern though and they do make repeated bad decisions. sure over all they stay in business somehow. but they've also had a serious rotation in upper management. the way these things work is that you get someone new in the boardroom. they don't play games like these no idea how we work or perceive things. they say hey if we do this we will make a ton. do it. because they need to make a mark. they need to have something to show for their yearly performance review to justify their salary. maybe the devs say.. but... but.... no.. but the new bigwig has a mark to leave.. so it happens. it's pushed thru. it fails the numbers are poor they lose players. they slowly recover. the new big wig is shown as a loss.. eventually they cycle out and a new guy comes in. cycle repeated. just because it's a business decision with the idea they are going to make money doesn't mean it's actually a successful attempt. pointy haired boss is about it.
To be honest now i think you are eitheir a troll or work for PWE or you are just... Well i'll keep it for myself...
Debate is cool but when someone refuse to see the reality as it is, there is no point...
You play on ps4 and dont even see the problem or refuse to see it.. This isnt about "cash grabs" or anything else it is about something that is obviously broken and you don't even admit it...
As long as you have a perfect guild full "people with a lot time" like yourself and full of tanks/heals, the queue problem don't exist... I see...
This is so selfish...
With you, there is no problems at all just solutions and crying players...
Keep going, you might receive a nice peridot by mail from Creeptic for your dedicated "support" and turning a blind eye at reality.
You remind me of politics, they live in a fantasy word and rule it without realising what's going on because they don't feel themselves affected...
I hope you'll never to manage humans, you hability to shape reality to avoid a concrete problem is astonishing...
You could at least say " yes i reconize there is a problem with queue since update and there is not enought tank/heals. But i"m not affected because i have an active perfect guild of happy players pleased by the game"
But no like always with you, nothing is wrong with this game, it's just us the problem...
I never read anywhere in the update, "be part of an active guild or leave the game".
And thanks, i really loled when i read "Cryptic do what they can to make the game better."
Am I stating that PWE/Cryptic are doing everything to better the game and the experience of players, no. What I am sating is that things in the Zen store don't have to cost players real money and as long as they can be obtained without the players that want them having to buy Zen themselves I myself and a number of other players for the most part can/deal with that.
Apparently you are in your feelings about changes to this game to the point where you are misreading a clear statements. I did NOT state that PWE/Cryptic are doing everything to better the game and the experience of players, this is what YOU read even though it isn't what I posted.
How long do I play per session? Apparently you know better than I do.
The reality here is clearly different people have differing views, perceptions, etc. about the game, to "debate" the opposing sides still have to understand and comprehend to the best of their ability the arguments provided by other parties involved, not doing so is selfish and apparently since I don't agree with all/most of your statements/opinions you are selfishly trying to discredit/disregard my statements for that sole reason. No one involved has to agree on every if anything. As previously mentioned a number of times, I see where these opinions are coming from and if I did not have the means to obtain AD/Zen to make purchases and or counteract the "pay walls" and "gating" some have mentioned I can see how I may lean towards those opinions as well, but I do and I am not looking at the changes to the game as unsolvable problems, I am for the most part looking at them as obstacles and at ways I can overcome them, thus I share them with others to try and show them while they are complaining/advocating for change they can still be making progress.
The queue system is not "broken" for me since I queue with a full, partially full group or deal with the wait while doing other things. If there are less people playing (especially tanks/healers) don't you think queues will take considerably longer? Does this mean it can't be "broken" for others, no (in other words if I was asked do I feel the queue system can not be "broken" for others my answer would be no meaning yes it can be "broken" for others). Does this mean I don't care if others are having a problem with it, no (in other words if I was asked do I care if the queue system is seen as a problem for others my answer would be yes meaning yes I can see it being a problem for others).
Don't fault others because they join an active Guild, bring players into their Guild when others leave, have a friends list with various classes (tanks/healers/DPS) of players, or start a tank and or healer themselves to help fill in holes of their queue group. Those players are DOING something about the queue system other than standing around posting and responding to zone chat and complaining that there are not enough tanks/healers. They are not solely relying on the queue system alone to form a group.
Post edited by trinity706#8838 on
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
I didnt ask you to agree with me about anything exept one ( in fact i don't care at all about your opinion but you just keep answering to us when we want Cryptic to answer us)
The queue is endless and there isnt enought tank/healers...
You don't even have to be agree, it's a fact... But even that seems to much for you to reconize, you prefer explain to me that i need to leave my guild and find one with more tanks or make a friend list of tanks/healers that will be at my service...
So after a couple hundred Edemos and Demos ran since change, still no +5 drop. Good job increased drop rate. Still waiting on a +5 Brutality...
Increased from 0.0010 to 0.0015 or something in the quality, supposedly, since they didn't claim to have doubled or tripled the chance. That's not somethings many of us will notice, even if we had a correctly implemented RNG at our disposal.
It's ten times the original drop rate so that's not even possible.
How do you know that? Ppl talking about experiences and you try to repeat a phrase from a develeoper? FGS plllzzzz stop this. I made 782 edemo runs before the changes = o legendary drops. After change i made 89 edemo run = 0 legendary. Also "even not possible"? Its anoying how you defend this change....really anoying.
-The queue is endless for DPS because of the lack of healers
-There aren't many healers because it's frustrating to be a healer -you can't get credit on heroics because of lack of damage not counting you as participating, so it's hard to progress
-you have to run your DPS character to get what you need for you healer character unless you want to either spend $ or play the AH, OR have a group of people that you regularly play with that know how to work the heroics so that you get credit.
-You can't get your DPS character into a queue because you need a healer, so dungeon delving on your DPS to upgrade your healer just got harder
-Healers don't actually need high IL to be effective - my healadin works just fine at IL2600ish for any dungeon - it's not like increasing my heals past a 1mil heal marker is going to do anyone any more benefit. So there isn't much to encourage me to upgrade her other than wanting to get into FBI... but she can't do the damage to get credit in heroics so what's the point?
-some of the healers that could be running dungeons are busy trying to make it through 2 days of daily quests to make a key for the dungeon they want to run - it takes a while to do those with a healer
-any healers that have friends are being sucked up by those people to get into the queues
Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold" Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
Any one else not getting Any rad from dungeons after last update I get them from skirmishes still but only a little about 2000 a day on first chest and about 200 from then on I'm sorry if there was an answer for this I looked for anything but didn't find anything please answer if u know. One more thing when I group up I am instantly dropped out of qgroup but I can finish the dungeons/skirmishes and open chests and get items but no RAD
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
Hey all, let's take it down a notch.
I can definitely understand that people have different opinions on this subject but the best solution is for both sides to work together and determine some common ground that can be improved.
Comments
The better service and low prices can bring in more customers but even then it's not guaranteed, it can appeal to a lot but for sure not everyone, it's like having a business with great customer service and low prices but overall bad products, sure it will attract the "penny pinchers" and the occasional spenders but overall it won't.
Lowering base Zen prices too much and or period will effect how much they are bringing in (they already do so temporarily via sales and coupons which drop quite frequently and did with the 250 Zen LDK's). So for every 5 LDK's bought via cash there's 50 Zen worth not coming in per transaction as it did before. Every 5 sets of keys bought with cash Cryptic essentially gave a set away, though that set is going to the players.
Just like with the suggestions about lowering the crafted key timers. 20 hrs for a key from a "minimal" amount of effort (a few quests, even faster in a group) in my opinion is more than reasonably, especially when taking into account the numbers of ways to generate large amounts of AD to get keys much faster. If campaigns didn't have the craftable key option I'm pretty sure I would feel different. Cryptic is giving players a number of options to reach a goal(s) and what I don't agree with is players choosing the "least effort requiring route(s)" and complaining that they aren't getting what they want.
@ravenskya How about stacking keys for a few days to give yourself more room to run dungeons without having to always quest first to get the requirements for the next day? Or even save them for the weekend or a day you have more breathing room to play? You don't have to always:
Quest > Start key > Use key > Repeat
You can
Quest > Start key > Repeat a comfortable number of times
Then
Use key > Use key > Quest > Start key
or any combination while having additional keys ready to use. You can also spend about 3k AD here and there for items that sell for higher amounts of gold.
Matter of fact I'm willing to help you at least here and there with questing (even better if when you get on to play I'm in that groove), sometimes I run zones on multiple characters. What about that?
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
I appreciate your offer - but in the same vein you made my point.
My friends and I are dungeon crawlers. We went through the campaigns already and only 1 of us likes fishing (not me). We are now put in a position where we have to do parts of the game we aren't as fond of and do it more frequently in order to get the treasure we are hunting in the parts of the game we like. Basically we are being told - you like this part of the game? Then do this other part that you don't like for a few hours every night and THEN you can play the part that you like on the weekends for a few hours.
Half of the group is already drifting into other games. The chats have stopped being about getting the next best BIS gear on Neverwinter and are instead about two games that come out in March. This is what is making me sad - I loved this game. I wanted to be part of it for a long time. I wouldn't have built a 125 person guild if I hadn't planned on being here for a while. But we are dungeon crawlers and everything about this game seems to want to force us out of our happy place.
Am I personally fine with the changes? No, but at the same time I've never gotten anything good out of this game... my RNG on here is terrible (yeah 48 preservation wards on a 20% chance - I'd like to slap someone over that math). I've known all along that I wouldn't get anything out of this game. So frankly getting nothing good out of one chest or getting nothing good out of two chests is all the same to me - I am here for as long as my friends are here.
And they are slowly disappearing. Even the head of our alliance is talking about abandoning ship... I want them to make it better before that happens.
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
they need to ungate that and find a way to make the player happy and make money from us. I still think they should just ad a 50 pack of keys for 5 dollars outside the ingame zen store. its a low enough price point that even the grinders would be happy with it and something that would work for a repeat purchase. and just ungate the keys you can make with grind.
Just because a business is a business does not mean they have to make stoopid business decisions to make money. you make LESS money when you make hamhanded business decisions than you would if your business decisions are still somewhat generous towards the customer.
Yes people can choose to not give money.. and a lot more are goign to choose no to giving money than choosing to give money with business decisions like these.
well glad you think so. but 99.9 percent of us DON"T think so. yeah you can generate ad and buy the keys but it's a terrible value for your money and do you REALLY think fishing is NOT a grind????? honestly????? for the price of the keys you can just go out and buy the fun things in this game that you "might" get from a drop in a dungeon and come out money ahead.. what's the point of playing the game at all then? if people want to spend their time making money and grinding JUST to make money sure they can. they've always had that ability but that's NOT THE POINT.. the point is people enjoy hanging with their friends running the dungeons and seeing what they get. PWE has basically made that hard for people to do now and they're going to lose the casuals over this and they NEED the casuals. we need the casuals. it should be easy and free to run the dungeons with friends. after a certain point in the game it should be the POINT of the game. running mindless dailies should NOT be the point of the game. this game does start to feel like WORK after awhile that somehow we're PAYING to do.. that's backwards. reallly backwards and some people are smart enough to say whoa nellie.. ENOUGH.. some say whip me more pls. I don't get the masochists..
If a number of players stop spending cash and Neverwinter stays producing revenue then to Cryptic they will probably see it as they are still doing pretty good (a number of players are complaining on the forums though we are still bringing in considerable amounts of revenue).
Again (agree or disagree), they are ways to continue running multiple dungeons and improving ones character without spending a dime, this will pretty much remain true as long as the AD exchange exists with Zen in it. Whether a player wants to or not the other options still exist and ignoring them doesn't make them go away.
The "core" of this game depends on the player.
Again a number of players here think that the SOLE purpose of the key change was to make money and nothing else, no player here knows the reasons behind the key change, only speculation and people are basing their negative thoughts and feelings off of this speculation.
Again, don't spend cash and let's see how far it goes...
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Actually i did grind ECC . Not for salvage, or the money.
We actually did it in order to learn that dungeon and to achive no deaths.
You remember how hard that was.
My skills where not so high and IL was not so important back then.
And tru that. No big expectations are needed. I do know that.
I am just sad my guild is losing players over something that could have been solved long time ago.
But it was not. It was " fixed " now. When NW is not on its beggining.
You see my point i hope.
Do you think I have a basic lack of understanding about how they are probably looking at things or where you are coming from? seriously? using phraseology like that is an emotional tool to try and make the other party think you somehow have a higher hand than they do without actually having any such thing. LOL.
condescension.. lovely stuff.
Yes. it's a business we get that. Yes, they make business"ey" decisions we get that.. Derp.. seriously derp.
the problem is they make BAD business decisions and we are trying to HELP them here.
and yes people can have different reasons for playing this game but the core really is to run dungeons and do dragons.. thus it's a dungeons and dragons game.
yes you can make money in game without spending a dime.. not the point of the people in this thread.
and thanks for the suggestion not to spend cash and see how far it goes. I hadn't thought of that. (again derp really? ty capt obvious
and yes the sole purpose of this change is to make more money. The key change was a cash grab. There is no other explanation for it. Every year at this time, there is a drastic cash grab that pisses off the player base and loses a good portion of them. it has been handled as usual, not so well. Although kudos to them for at least making an improvement in the overall drop table per player outrage.
My apologies, next time I may include my lovely "general statement" divider to denote when I am addressing readers in general, seemingly since it is so easy for someone to take them personal even though I did not use pronouns such as "you".
If you are pulling "condescension" and or that I am trying to invoke an emotional response simply from words on a screen (how does one allow that to happen to themselves negatively? especially on the forums...) I think that you are reading FAR too much into my statements...
However one may look at their "business decisions", let us remember, from the outside looking in, the "numbers" (player base/revenue) will tell the tale for the most part. Again if the numbers remain even after the key change things will probably stay the same or similar. Now if someone from within can win the shot callers over in favor of the players that would be all well and good, though as I previously stated, if they are satisfied with the numbers then good luck with that.
Again who knows for a fact that the key change was made SOLELY, not partially, to increase revenue and can provide evidence to support such claims? Anybody? Just me and the crickets then. If players are used to the "ebb and flow", why would they not prepare themselves for it (rhetorical)?
@viciouscosity
So not opting into "money grabs" is not an option on any version of Neverwinter? Are players that into this game that changes can/are effecting them "negatively" in various ways? I'm just asking. I mean I enjoy Neverwinter, it's a fun game for me and for the most part that's how I treat it, though such "money grabs" if I choose not to partake in them I just use AD instead of allowing it to hinder my progress and or cause me "discomfort" as many players seemingly do.
@kalindra
I meant it as I stated it. Let me clarify it though, there are items on the trade house for around 3k AD that sell for 6+ gold a stack, the gold the player I was addressing was stating they were often short of. It can take less than 10 minutes to get gold if AD is used (if no AD is available). Group up.
If players run zones alone of course it will take them longer, I'm assuming this is the case here since I haven't seen anyone mention it. Again, players don't have to run daily quest for currency, start a key and run dungeons each session they play, save the keys for a day you can run straight dungeons and or DF, Influence, etc. (just a suggestion). Seems to me a number of players are consciously making it harder on themselves.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Just before key update, it was easy and fast to join a random group with queue even if most of times it would means no tank/heal .
It's absolutely not possible anymore...
Since the fix, the queue take so looooong and end with no results...
Meanwhile you spam chat at town and even with my 3k sw dps/buff, so few groups invit me for a simple CN ( or shoulf i say "us" because i see others spamming with no results)...
Maybe on PC throuht the years, people had time to make viables tanks/heals as rerolls... But on PS4 it's a whole different story for us...
Most of players start the game by creating a dps, it make sense, it's just brutal fun...
It's an other reason i don't understand Cryptic, they trow a stone in the water without even cosidering consequences...
These days even more than the key problem, the lack of successfull queueing is what make quit the game...
Basically on PS4, there is many players that dont have vip keys, dont have ldk and mixed with the queue fix, you spend more time searching for a group than playing...
Good game Cryptic, you nailed it.. You nailed it like a coffin i mean...
The anger and dismay you are seeing here is a result of enjoying and being passionate about the game, and not wanting to see it get worse, and wanting more people to play.
There is also the principle of the matter as well. You may not think that using ADs to purchase zen is buying into it, but in a way it is. Most of that Zen was purchased by someone else using real money, and you buying it is part of a cycle that ultimately rewards cryptic and pwe for subpar content, a groundhogs day of grindfest, money-grabs, and bait and switch maneuvers. I've spent money on the game before, but I will not until I see the state of the game improving. For the same reason I refuse to use the ZAX because of that.
In any case if you want some up to date examples of bait and switch, swing by the Neverwinter Preview discussion area and look for a thread about the new weapons.
Of course I'm going to mention being part of a Guild/Alliance.
If a player chooses to stay in an inactive Guild/Alliance that is on them. When players leave, replace them, if your Guild isn't providing what you are looking for find another. Of course there are the instances where players have friends, etc., but they are faced with staying in a ghost town or going somewhere more fruitful.
Queue with a full group and you will almost instantly get into a dungeon, or queue with as many as possible to cut down on the wait time. Add people from past runs (tanks/healers/DPS) to your friends list so you know when they are online and possibly available. Standing around in Protector's Enclave or wherever instead of doing all a player can to ease queuing is self inflicted stress.
As far as the Stronghold XP "abuse" goes some players depended on it so much that when it was changed they couldn't recover. I hope no one really thought getting to lvl 70 within a few hours and skipping major portions of the game/experience was intended...
Players can still help each other lvl up characters by questing together, that has always been available to players even before the instant lvl 70 Zen option. The players that went through the leveling process outside of the Stronghold were unaffected by the Stronghold XP cut, only the players that took part in it felt the difference.
Seeing players focusing on particular aspects of the game almost certainly the developers, etc. will try to figure out a way to monetize it (players want to lvl up fast, ok, let's introduce a Zen item that will grant the same end result for a price). Just like the players who find bugs/exploits and put it all over the internet, guess what, if the developers didn't know before they sure will after.
No matter what has been introduced in the Zen market the fact still remains that players can earn them via in-game activity, as long as this remains true players aren't forced to spend money. So PWE/Cyrptic are the only one's that provide a F2P MMO that has had similar issues?
It has been mentioned before somebody somewhere is still buying Zen (one side) for F2P's to convert AD into (the other side) and the F2P's are not buying the Zen themselves which is my point.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Debate is cool but when someone refuse to see the reality as it is, there is no point...
You play on ps4 and dont even see the problem or refuse to see it..
This isnt about "cash grabs" or anything else it is about something that is obviously broken and you don't even admit it...
As long as you have a perfect guild full "people with a lot time" like yourself and full of tanks/heals, the queue problem don't exist... I see...
This is so selfish...
With you, there is no problems at all just solutions and crying players...
Keep going, you might receive a nice peridot by mail from Creeptic for your dedicated "support" and turning a blind eye at reality.
You remind me of politics, they live in a fantasy word and rule it without realising what's going on because they don't feel themselves affected...
I hope you'll never to manage humans, you hability to shape reality to avoid a concrete problem is astonishing...
You could at least say " yes i reconize there is a problem with queue since update and there is not enought tank/heals. But i"m not affected because i have an active perfect guild of happy players pleased by the game"
But no like always with you, nothing is wrong with this game, it's just us the problem...
I never read anywhere in the update, "be part of an active guild or leave the game".
And thanks, i really loled when i read "Cryptic do what they can to make the game better."
Apparently you are in your feelings about changes to this game to the point where you are misreading a clear statements. I did NOT state that PWE/Cryptic are doing everything to better the game and the experience of players, this is what YOU read even though it isn't what I posted.
How long do I play per session? Apparently you know better than I do.
The reality here is clearly different people have differing views, perceptions, etc. about the game, to "debate" the opposing sides still have to understand and comprehend to the best of their ability the arguments provided by other parties involved, not doing so is selfish and apparently since I don't agree with all/most of your statements/opinions you are selfishly trying to discredit/disregard my statements for that sole reason. No one involved has to agree on every if anything. As previously mentioned a number of times, I see where these opinions are coming from and if I did not have the means to obtain AD/Zen to make purchases and or counteract the "pay walls" and "gating" some have mentioned I can see how I may lean towards those opinions as well, but I do and I am not looking at the changes to the game as unsolvable problems, I am for the most part looking at them as obstacles and at ways I can overcome them, thus I share them with others to try and show them while they are complaining/advocating for change they can still be making progress.
The queue system is not "broken" for me since I queue with a full, partially full group or deal with the wait while doing other things. If there are less people playing (especially tanks/healers) don't you think queues will take considerably longer? Does this mean it can't be "broken" for others, no (in other words if I was asked do I feel the queue system can not be "broken" for others my answer would be no meaning yes it can be "broken" for others). Does this mean I don't care if others are having a problem with it, no (in other words if I was asked do I care if the queue system is seen as a problem for others my answer would be yes meaning yes I can see it being a problem for others).
Don't fault others because they join an active Guild, bring players into their Guild when others leave, have a friends list with various classes (tanks/healers/DPS) of players, or start a tank and or healer themselves to help fill in holes of their queue group. Those players are DOING something about the queue system other than standing around posting and responding to zone chat and complaining that there are not enough tanks/healers. They are not solely relying on the queue system alone to form a group.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
The queue is endless and there isnt enought tank/healers...
You don't even have to be agree, it's a fact...
But even that seems to much for you to reconize, you prefer explain to me that i need to leave my guild and find one with more tanks or make a friend list of tanks/healers that will be at my service...
I made 782 edemo runs before the changes = o legendary drops. After change i made 89 edemo run = 0 legendary. Also "even not possible"?
Its anoying how you defend this change....really anoying.
-There aren't many healers because it's frustrating to be a healer -you can't get credit on heroics because of lack of damage not counting you as participating, so it's hard to progress
-you have to run your DPS character to get what you need for you healer character unless you want to either spend $ or play the AH, OR have a group of people that you regularly play with that know how to work the heroics so that you get credit.
-You can't get your DPS character into a queue because you need a healer, so dungeon delving on your DPS to upgrade your healer just got harder
-Healers don't actually need high IL to be effective - my healadin works just fine at IL2600ish for any dungeon - it's not like increasing my heals past a 1mil heal marker is going to do anyone any more benefit. So there isn't much to encourage me to upgrade her other than wanting to get into FBI... but she can't do the damage to get credit in heroics so what's the point?
-some of the healers that could be running dungeons are busy trying to make it through 2 days of daily quests to make a key for the dungeon they want to run - it takes a while to do those with a healer
-any healers that have friends are being sucked up by those people to get into the queues
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
I can definitely understand that people have different opinions on this subject but the best solution is for both sides to work together and determine some common ground that can be improved.