So the day before the change the shard was over 5m and the day of it dropped by about half indicates that the demand dropped? There was no undercutting before? Why would anyone drop their price by that margin if the ones in the market were priced so high? Lostmauth's horn was over 600k and after the change it dropped below 200k and there are plenty in the AH as of late (more than 30 pages), many more than before and none of this doesn't indicate higher drop rates? Ok LoL
No convincing necessary.
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Post count may mean something to you but to me it's just a number, anyone can post on the forums and get their count up, so those numbers mean what? Moderators can reset my post count outside of the bug reports and threads I started anytime I post and it wouldn't reduce my activity on the forums (I give them permission to if it will make a difference).
Any posts that are not in line with the negative posts against the change are considered to be made by employees, hired in's and or to raise post count? And yes you edited your post and yes this post contains a response to your original version.
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Why is the price down? Low demand and undercutting. Players will, instead of buying, wait for it to drop for them. You are not gonna convince anyone to your side, and we can't convince you. So why do you keep going on and on?
It's still a BiS artifact set for multiple classes. If demand was low it would drop to be in line with other artifact sets with low demand.
So the day before the change the shard was over 5m and the day of it dropped by about half indicates that the demand dropped? There was no undercutting before? Why would anyone drop their price by that margin if the ones in the market were priced so high? Lostmauth's horn was over 600k and after the change it dropped below 200k and there are plenty in the AH as of late (more than 30 pages), many more than before and none of this doesn't indicate higher drop rates? Ok LoL
No convincing necessary.
You are just trying to raise your post count. Most players are very unhappy about the change.
And you're busy lying in contradiction to reality. Good luck with that.
-Since healers can't progress without being carried - there is an extreme shortage of them to get into the new dungeons and higher level content
There's a shortage of healers because new players go straight for DPS toons. Support characters are in shortage in every MMO.
Most of what you're complaining about has nothing to do with the key change too. It has more to do with problems that have been there for years and no one complained about them until the key change because apparently getting 1 extra piece of salvage (and an artifact every 200+ runs) was enough to make all these problems bearable.
naw, a lot of the support classes are alts of people that main dps. I have alts that I use on dungeon runs when needed. I can see my dc is needed for the new content but for the life of me I cannot get the enthusiasm up to run it thru all the dps dailies needed to get fbi opened to it. they really need some alternative means to get there for the healers/buffers and tanks. missions that focus on the skills these critters have or have a free pass for support. maybe a free pass for support if you have a dps toon who has cleared it. If I were maining a dc or tank I'm not sure I'd not be skipping these last two mods anyway or maybe I'd have fired up a dps to run instead. it's a real problem imo
So the day before the change the shard was over 5m and the day of it dropped by about half indicates that the demand dropped? There was no undercutting before? Why would anyone drop their price by that margin if the ones in the market were priced so high? Lostmauth's horn was over 600k and after the change it dropped below 200k and there are plenty in the AH as of late (more than 30 pages), many more than before and none of this doesn't indicate higher drop rates? Ok LoL
No convincing necessary.
yes the drop rate has increased. that's obvious but that doesn't make the key price worthwhile. and it doesn't erase the many current problems that go along with it. it's great that they've increased the drop rates and things you can get from dungeons. that's great but the marks drop rate is not improved and the better drop rates are still very much rng. some people are getting lucky and many many more are seeing nothing. Where the drop rate is now for special things and the variety it has is where it should have been for the last couple years. but the drop rate for things that help people who are trying to level. salvage and what not is not good enough the cost of their key is not covered. they should be able to make the money to improve their toon running dungeons and they won't be able to.
I could go on but I'd just be repeating myself as I already am. I should know better than to reply to your posts. you don't listen to anyone but yourself. it's just the same thing over and over. I'll be keeping quiet going forward.
-Since healers can't progress without being carried - there is an extreme shortage of them to get into the new dungeons and higher level content
There's a shortage of healers because new players go straight for DPS toons. Support characters are in shortage in every MMO.
Most of what you're complaining about has nothing to do with the key change too. It has more to do with problems that have been there for years and no one complained about them until the key change because apparently getting 1 extra piece of salvage (and an artifact every 200+ runs) was enough to make all these problems bearable.
naw, a lot of the support classes are alts of people that main dps. I have alts that I use on dungeon runs when needed. I can see my dc is needed for the new content but for the life of me I cannot get the enthusiasm up to run it thru all the dps dailies needed to get fbi opened to it. they really need some alternative means to get there for the healers/buffers and tanks. missions that focus on the skills these critters have or have a free pass for support. maybe a free pass for support if you have a dps toon who has cleared it. If I were maining a dc or tank I'm not sure I'd not be skipping these last two mods anyway or maybe I'd have fired up a dps to run instead. it's a real problem imo
@thefiresidecat I main a Cleric. Second main is a Pali. Let me tell you it is a pain in the butt. I do not need extra help , but it takes me a bit longer then an average dps . Had three choices. Quit the cleric and run a dps char instead. Skip the content . Or do it for the guild . I was asked really nicely. They needed a cleric to run FBI and MSVA. So ... i did quests every day. Defending the dale every day, SOMI every day and weeklies every Monday. With skipping a few days ofc. Plus the extra stuff now that i need to run to get keys. It is freaking driving me nuts! I can not take the grind ... was so close to quit it, all together a few times now. But since other boys and girls decided to quit their support classes and put them in a closet i do not have that option. 3 active clerics on 150 accounts. 3 ! And one of them skipped the grind.
-Since healers can't progress without being carried - there is an extreme shortage of them to get into the new dungeons and higher level content
There's a shortage of healers because new players go straight for DPS toons. Support characters are in shortage in every MMO.
Most of what you're complaining about has nothing to do with the key change too. It has more to do with problems that have been there for years and no one complained about them until the key change because apparently getting 1 extra piece of salvage (and an artifact every 200+ runs) was enough to make all these problems bearable.
naw, a lot of the support classes are alts of people that main dps. I have alts that I use on dungeon runs when needed. I can see my dc is needed for the new content but for the life of me I cannot get the enthusiasm up to run it thru all the dps dailies needed to get fbi opened to it. they really need some alternative means to get there for the healers/buffers and tanks. missions that focus on the skills these critters have or have a free pass for support. maybe a free pass for support if you have a dps toon who has cleared it. If I were maining a dc or tank I'm not sure I'd not be skipping these last two mods anyway or maybe I'd have fired up a dps to run instead. it's a real problem imo
@thefiresidecat I main a Cleric. Second main is a Pali. Let me tell you it is a pain in the butt. I do not need extra help , but it takes me a bit longer then an average dps . Had three choices. Quit the cleric and run a dps char instead. Skip the content . Or do it for the guild . I was asked really nicely. They needed a cleric to run FBI and MSVA. So ... i did quests every day. Defending the dale every day, SOMI every day and weeklies every Monday. With skipping a few days ofc. Plus the extra stuff now that i need to run to get keys. It is freaking driving me nuts! I can not take the grind ... was so close to quit it, all together a few times now. But since other boys and girls decided to quit their support classes and put them in a closet i do not have that option. 3 active clerics on 150 accounts. 3 ! And one of them skipped the grind.
Apparently the drop rate hasn't increased (according to defiantone99 and others). The drop rates for XYZ are "RNG" anyway. A number of players have already upgraded their relic weapons and those are the players that more than likely didn't let a free key and crafted keys hold them back (or were extremely lucky).
The cost of the keys more than likely won't be covered since it's an optional chance at something more and the keys always give something whether it is wanted or not, if a chest could sometimes be empty, that would be a different story. It goes back to what a player is willing to do, continue digging themselves into the "dungeoneer hole" or fund additional runs, equipment, etc. via other aspects of the game.
I see the concerns and perspectives of some of the players that do not like the change, I just don't agree with them all and this is fine though some seemingly feel I or others have to agree or there is a problem.
Actually that particular post was in response to someone stating they couldn't accrue gold to craft keys and I gave them some suggestions on how to do that though I can see it being applied to moving around bonding stones as well.
As far as grouping up, entering a zone and typing a simple lfg message and re-posting it periodically can speed up the completion time if someone joins your group or invites you rather than doing it alone and not posting a lfg message, I didn't mean sit around idle looking for a group. If there are "stealable" objectives fight mobs on top of them if you can that way players trying to take them will probably be brought into combat and unable to interact with it, of course there are ones that mobs can't "conceal" but it's better than nothing, not to mention in a group, group members can complete objectives elsewhere in the zone giving you credit for them shortening the overall completion time (referring to kill quests, not pickup XYZ quests). Stacking keys for a day or more is a suggestion, just like the bulk of my posts, they aren't required though they do grant a number positive effects over not doing them.
Everything in this game isn't going to be "fun" to everyone, the "not fun" things more than likely have some benefit to them and players that continue to only do the few things they see as fun are eliminating other opportunities for progression and what I am witnessing here on the forums, in-game, chat, etc. are players complaining about the opportunities that they have limited themselves to.
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Apparently the drop rate hasn't increased (according to defiantone99 and others). The drop rates for XYZ are "RNG" anyway. A number of players have already upgraded their relic weapons and those are the players that more than likely didn't let a free key and crafted keys hold them back (or were extremely lucky).
The cost of the keys more than likely won't be covered since it's an optional chance at something more and the keys always give something whether it is wanted or not, if a chest could sometimes be empty, that would be a different story. It goes back to what a player is willing to do, continue digging themselves into the "dungeoneer hole" or fund additional runs, equipment, etc. via other aspects of the game.
I see the concerns and perspectives of some of the players that do not like the change, I just don't agree with them all and this is fine though some seemingly feel I or others have to agree or there is a problem.
Actually that particular post was in response to someone stating they couldn't accrue gold to craft keys and I gave them some suggestions on how to do that though I can see it being applied to moving around bonding stones as well.
As far as grouping up, entering a zone and typing a simple lfg message and re-posting it periodically can speed up the completion time if someone joins your group or invites you rather than doing it alone and not posting a lfg message, I didn't mean sit around idle looking for a group. If there are "stealable" objectives fight mobs on top of them if you can that way players trying to take them will probably be brought into combat and unable to interact with it, of course there are ones that mobs can't "conceal" but it's better than nothing, not to mention in a group, group members can complete objectives elsewhere in the zone giving you credit for them shortening the overall completion time (referring to kill quests, not pickup XYZ quests). Stacking keys for a day or more is a suggestion, just like the bulk of my posts, they aren't required though they do grant a number positive effects over not doing them.
Everything in this game isn't going to be "fun" to everyone, the "not fun" things more than likely have some benefit to them and players that continue to only do the few things they see as fun are eliminating other opportunities for progression and what I am witnessing here on the forums, in-game, chat, etc. are players complaining about the opportunities that they have limited themselves to.
We do not have to agree. We do not have to disagree. You do agree with some concerns and you do not agree with some concerns we put out there. That is fine. As i said before i do not think any of us do not respect what you say . We may not agree , but that does not mean we do not respect it. You are arguing your point and we argue our point. Some do it better, some like me, do it maybe worse. We all do try.
I am too tired on so many levels Trinity, to continue arguing my point . I believe i said what i came here to say. And that is enough. Maybe they change things and maybe they do not. It is not up to me to say .
Again thank you for putting yourself out there and giving us another perspective. That is always welcome, even if we do not change our way of thinking.
If some of us reacted too emotionally ( aka me , for example ) , that is cos this change is hurting our guild in so many ways. Even if there is alternative ways of achieving goals some people do not accept things and leave. Smaller guild player base, less running content together, less communication.. and etc..
I ll gladly run with any of people here on the forum. So just to put it out there, if you ever need a not dps cleric, that is not 4k pm me.
-Since healers can't progress without being carried - there is an extreme shortage of them to get into the new dungeons and higher level content
There's a shortage of healers because new players go straight for DPS toons. Support characters are in shortage in every MMO.
Most of what you're complaining about has nothing to do with the key change too. It has more to do with problems that have been there for years and no one complained about them until the key change because apparently getting 1 extra piece of salvage (and an artifact every 200+ runs) was enough to make all these problems bearable.
naw, a lot of the support classes are alts of people that main dps. I have alts that I use on dungeon runs when needed. I can see my dc is needed for the new content but for the life of me I cannot get the enthusiasm up to run it thru all the dps dailies needed to get fbi opened to it. they really need some alternative means to get there for the healers/buffers and tanks. missions that focus on the skills these critters have or have a free pass for support. maybe a free pass for support if you have a dps toon who has cleared it. If I were maining a dc or tank I'm not sure I'd not be skipping these last two mods anyway or maybe I'd have fired up a dps to run instead. it's a real problem imo
Erm, that's pretty much just elaborating on the problem I pointed out. New players start with a DPS toon, then of those new players there's a fraction that plays their toon long enough that they'll play T1/T2s. Then out of those players there's an even smaller amount that will make an alt they can play through T1/T2. So you're talking about a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of players that will actually make an alt capable of running T3s and said alt won't necessarily be a support toon even.
My two cents: I very much approve of the key changes, as a player who plays multiple toons IN MODERATION. VIP gives me a free legendary key daily, plus my daily dungeon key, plus demon keys, any dragon keys I craft... I spend almost three hours PER CHARACTER using all of these, and I've gotten plenty of loot I'm happy with, including two of the new items, several +4 rings, and a Sphere of Black Ice. The dungeon key change has helped me gear up as a 2.3 player, to 2.7.
This is the same nonsense that people argue that when they say that the refinement success rates are lower than they are. The rates were improved for legendary rings and artifacts but everything else is the same so the chest will contain the same garbage as usual most of the time.
You've got any prove for that claim?
Um artifact prices on the AH dropped to half of what they were or less. I've gotten 4 +5s since the key change. I regularly see multiple +5s drop in edemo/ndemo. If you really think the drop rates were not improved then you're not playing the game much.
Comments
So the day before the change the shard was over 5m and the day of it dropped by about half indicates that the demand dropped? There was no undercutting before? Why would anyone drop their price by that margin if the ones in the market were priced so high? Lostmauth's horn was over 600k and after the change it dropped below 200k and there are plenty in the AH as of late (more than 30 pages), many more than before and none of this doesn't indicate higher drop rates? Ok LoL
No convincing necessary.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
I could go on but I'd just be repeating myself as I already am. I should know better than to reply to your posts. you don't listen to anyone but yourself. it's just the same thing over and over. I'll be keeping quiet going forward.
I main a Cleric. Second main is a Pali. Let me tell you it is a pain in the butt.
I do not need extra help , but it takes me a bit longer then an average dps .
Had three choices.
Quit the cleric and run a dps char instead.
Skip the content .
Or do it for the guild .
I was asked really nicely. They needed a cleric to run FBI and MSVA.
So ... i did quests every day. Defending the dale every day, SOMI every day and weeklies every Monday.
With skipping a few days ofc.
Plus the extra stuff now that i need to run to get keys.
It is freaking driving me nuts! I can not take the grind ... was so close to quit it, all together a few times now.
But since other boys and girls decided to quit their support classes and put them in a closet i do not have that option. 3 active clerics on 150 accounts. 3 ! And one of them skipped the grind.
I feel yah
Apparently the drop rate hasn't increased (according to defiantone99 and others). The drop rates for XYZ are "RNG" anyway. A number of players have already upgraded their relic weapons and those are the players that more than likely didn't let a free key and crafted keys hold them back (or were extremely lucky).
The cost of the keys more than likely won't be covered since it's an optional chance at something more and the keys always give something whether it is wanted or not, if a chest could sometimes be empty, that would be a different story. It goes back to what a player is willing to do, continue digging themselves into the "dungeoneer hole" or fund additional runs, equipment, etc. via other aspects of the game.
I see the concerns and perspectives of some of the players that do not like the change, I just don't agree with them all and this is fine though some seemingly feel I or others have to agree or there is a problem.
@kalindra
Actually that particular post was in response to someone stating they couldn't accrue gold to craft keys and I gave them some suggestions on how to do that though I can see it being applied to moving around bonding stones as well.
As far as grouping up, entering a zone and typing a simple lfg message and re-posting it periodically can speed up the completion time if someone joins your group or invites you rather than doing it alone and not posting a lfg message, I didn't mean sit around idle looking for a group. If there are "stealable" objectives fight mobs on top of them if you can that way players trying to take them will probably be brought into combat and unable to interact with it, of course there are ones that mobs can't "conceal" but it's better than nothing, not to mention in a group, group members can complete objectives elsewhere in the zone giving you credit for them shortening the overall completion time (referring to kill quests, not pickup XYZ quests). Stacking keys for a day or more is a suggestion, just like the bulk of my posts, they aren't required though they do grant a number positive effects over not doing them.
Everything in this game isn't going to be "fun" to everyone, the "not fun" things more than likely have some benefit to them and players that continue to only do the few things they see as fun are eliminating other opportunities for progression and what I am witnessing here on the forums, in-game, chat, etc. are players complaining about the opportunities that they have limited themselves to.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
You do agree with some concerns and you do not agree with some concerns we put out there. That is fine.
As i said before i do not think any of us do not respect what you say . We may not agree , but that does not mean we do not respect it.
You are arguing your point and we argue our point. Some do it better, some like me, do it maybe worse.
We all do try.
I am too tired on so many levels Trinity, to continue arguing my point .
I believe i said what i came here to say.
And that is enough. Maybe they change things and maybe they do not.
It is not up to me to say .
Again thank you for putting yourself out there and giving us another perspective.
That is always welcome, even if we do not change our way of thinking.
If some of us reacted too emotionally ( aka me , for example ) , that is cos this change is hurting our guild in so many ways.
Even if there is alternative ways of achieving goals some people do not accept things and leave.
Smaller guild player base, less running content together, less communication.. and etc..
I ll gladly run with any of people here on the forum.
So just to put it out there, if you ever need a not dps cleric, that is not 4k pm me.
Erm, that's pretty much just elaborating on the problem I pointed out. New players start with a DPS toon, then of those new players there's a fraction that plays their toon long enough that they'll play T1/T2s. Then out of those players there's an even smaller amount that will make an alt they can play through T1/T2. So you're talking about a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of players that will actually make an alt capable of running T3s and said alt won't necessarily be a support toon even.
Yes, opening the chest uses the key.