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Update on the Dungeon Key Change

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  • diloul31diloul31 Member Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    Sure Ambisinisterr.

    But i assume by "together", you mean players and Cryptic.
    But where is Cryptic input on that matter ?
    Would it hurts to participate a little instead of watching us fighting each other ?
  • mightyerikssonmightyeriksson Member Posts: 842 Arc User
    ravenskya said:

    -The queue is endless for DPS because of the lack of healers



    -There aren't many healers because it's frustrating to be a healer -you can't get credit on heroics because of lack of damage not counting you as participating, so it's hard to progress



    -you have to run your DPS character to get what you need for you healer character unless you want to either spend $ or play the AH, OR have a group of people that you regularly play with that know how to work the heroics so that you get credit.



    -You can't get your DPS character into a queue because you need a healer, so dungeon delving on your DPS to upgrade your healer just got harder



    -Healers don't actually need high IL to be effective - my healadin works just fine at IL2600ish for any dungeon - it's not like increasing my heals past a 1mil heal marker is going to do anyone any more benefit. So there isn't much to encourage me to upgrade her other than wanting to get into FBI... but she can't do the damage to get credit in heroics so what's the point?



    -some of the healers that could be running dungeons are busy trying to make it through 2 days of daily quests to make a key for the dungeon they want to run - it takes a while to do those with a healer



    -any healers that have friends are being sucked up by those people to get into the queues

    ^ Pretty much this, I can rarely pug on any of my DPS, but on my DC it pops in less than 5 seconds, no matter what I'm queueing for...

    I have a great alliance to fall back on, but for those that don't, getting in a pug is a real problem.
  • ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User
    It would be interesting to know if Cryptic feels that what we are seeing now is actually what they intended when all of the changes were implemented.
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    diloul31 said:

    Sure Ambisinisterr.



    But i assume by "together", you mean players and Cryptic.

    But where is Cryptic input on that matter ?

    Would it hurts to participate a little instead of watching us fighting each other ?

    Actually I meant everybody in this thread.

    People were on two opposite poles of the debate and there was little reaching to the other side. Whether you like or dislike this change I think there are aspects players can agree are lacking whether you look at is as "this update wouldn't be so bad if this was done" or "this update would be better if this was done."
    Disagreeing doesn't mean you can't find common ground.

    The devs will likely not respond unless there is something they can clarify. They do read the opinions posted and will use those opinions to make any course corrections. Due to how developers responses are viewed by players in general it is hard to have any actual back and forth discussions as somebody always ends up taking a discussion as promissory. :(
  • ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User
    edited January 2017


    Actually I meant everybody in this thread.

    People were on two opposite poles of the debate and there was little reaching to the other side. Whether you like or dislike this change I think there are aspects players can agree are lacking whether you look at is as "this update wouldn't be so bad if this was done" or "this update would be better if this was done."
    Disagreeing doesn't mean you can't find common ground.

    The devs will likely not respond unless there is something they can clarify. They do read the opinions posted and will use those opinions to make any course corrections. Due to how developers responses are viewed by players in general it is hard to have any actual back and forth discussions as somebody always ends up taking a discussion as promissory. :(

    I'll bite - here you go with some possible solutions

    The key problem would have been tolerable if they dropped the requirement for making keys from 19 hours down to 1 hour or less. Also the ingredients to make more than one key should be available each day. At least 2 of each key should be possible on a daily basis if you complete all of the available quests for the day.

    The lack of healer issue - heroic encounters should count anyone who had participated even if they never hit a thing - that way buffers and healers can get credit and farm more effectively for moats/new weapon restoration bits etc. so that they can progress and get into the higher level dungeons

    Another possible solution to the queue issue is - allow private queuing to ignore item levels. If a group wants to take a lower level healer in and the healer has the everfrost blah blah but not the item level - then let them private queue in.

    Support only characters need a way to get keys - this is a DPS game that is punishing to anyone who is trying to play support. Not everyone is as lucky as I am to have a good guild to get my healadin through dailys. A possible solution to this - striker companions on healers/buffers do significantly more damage when not in a group. IE put on a striker and their damage output is suddenly useful as long as you are soloing, once in a group it goes back to normal.

    Are these great solutions? Eh, I don't know - but they are the first that popped into my head.
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • sundance777sundance777 Member Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    Seconded on changing the time to make keys and I think I said it three times already in this thread. The one campaign key a day is too slow, I feel like we should be able to make at least 2 per day in every campaign. 1 hour would be nice for those of us that can not be on all day every day, but something less than 20 hours please.

    I stand by my conviction that a reward at the end, meaning the stuff in the chest, should be of more value than the cost of the key, currently 5000 AD. If the minimum rewards from the chest are worth less than the cost of the key, we are basically paying admission to run the dungeon instead of being rewarded. I should not have to spell out how to do this, either drop the price of the key - hint a blue ring is 2K AD, or change the minimum rewards or if all else fails just open the dungeons for entry with no game play in the way and we can call the dungeons lockboxes... :)
    TR - Sun: 16000 IL
    OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL

    Casual Dailies
  • diloul31diloul31 Member Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    I totally change my post to share my most recent experience...

    I like to complain but when something good happen, i like to share too.


    I've been complaining a lot about all my keys being used for nothing, all keys i had before update and with crafting...

    I thought let's buy 5 keys, i don't have much more zen anyway...
    3 ldk used, bloody visage
    my demonic crafted today gave me Orcus Wand...

    Would lie if i'd say i wasn't happy...

    Finally maybe the wheel turned a little...

    I hope my fellow unlucky players will have the same treatment soon too.

    Well i must say a nice win for once help to allegiate the whole thing a little...
    Post edited by diloul31 on
  • edited January 2017
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  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    Seconded on changing the time to make keys and I think I said it three times already in this thread. The one campaign key a day is too slow, I feel like we should be able to make at least 2 per day in every campaign. 1 hour would be nice for those of us that can not be on all day every day, but something less than 20 hours please.

    I stand by my conviction that a reward at the end, meaning the stuff in the chest, should be of more value than the cost of the key, currently 5000 AD. If the minimum rewards from the chest are worth less than the cost of the key, we are basically paying admission to run the dungeon instead of being rewarded. I should not have to spell out how to do this, either drop the price of the key - hint a blue ring is 2K AD, or change the minimum rewards or if all else fails just open the dungeons for entry with no game play in the way and we can call the dungeons lockboxes... :)


    it's 15k per key for the zen key that allows you to open chests in edemo and secondary chests. the only chest that comes near that on a regular basis is the cn secondary chest.

    I think the time and ingredients for keys should be far less per key and maybe make 5 keys at a time. I also think they should offer 50 keys for 5 dollars (no zen) outside the zen store.

  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Nothing can be done to fix this key crisis other than revert back to peaking...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • blur#5900 blur Member Posts: 490 Arc User
    Biggest problem of dungeon key change is Svardborg. Its the latest content and its destroyed bcs of the dungeon key change. Reputations farming time is over, barely any1 is still fishing and doing SOMI HEs. One Svardborg run consumes 3 keys or 3 reputation points. Drop chance is bad, at least the legendary marks for those who still need them and seems like many still do, including me. I dont remember the last time when i got the Legendary mark of Uvar, it wasnt in last 20 runs for sure. First time ever i bought 20 legendary dragon keys and i still didnt get the marks i need. Simply its not worth it. All im getting are useless marks and character bound purple rings. Accumulating rought astral diamonds on one character and preventing us to actually use those.
    Even worse situation is normal version of Svardborg. It has actually pretty good armor piece but who is going to run and spend Legendary dragon keys on it without even having a chance for legendary mark or legendary ring.

    Other content for me sums up to basically one CN run and one POM run to use Demonic keys and few Demogorgon runs without opening the chest.

    Our runs are limited due to 1 campaign key per day and drop is bad and Cryptic wants us to buy keys for the bad drop?
    image
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  • araneaxaraneax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 639 Arc User

    Seconded on changing the time to make keys and I think I said it three times already in this thread. The one campaign key a day is too slow, I feel like we should be able to make at least 2 per day in every campaign. 1 hour would be nice for those of us that can not be on all day every day, but something less than 20 hours please.

    I stand by my conviction that a reward at the end, meaning the stuff in the chest, should be of more value than the cost of the key, currently 5000 AD. If the minimum rewards from the chest are worth less than the cost of the key, we are basically paying admission to run the dungeon instead of being rewarded. I should not have to spell out how to do this, either drop the price of the key - hint a blue ring is 2K AD, or change the minimum rewards or if all else fails just open the dungeons for entry with no game play in the way and we can call the dungeons lockboxes... :)

    This i support fully. + 1 from me!

    1. Changing the time to make keys in the campg. Shorten it.

    2. Rewards at the end , meaning chest prizes should be updated to suit the dungeons and the players.
    Since we HAVE TO open a chest without peeking. A change we did not ask for and do not want.
    If i am to get 2.2k alliance ring after finishing T1 or a helmet at the end of ETOS that is 4.4 , the value should at least be equal as a key that can be bought in PE from the key vendor. 5 000 AD per Key.
    We are not counting in VIP discount since not everyone have a VIP bought or a discount to count on.

    3. Legendary keys are still high in price. If you want people to buy them, make them same in price as P. wards. People buy wards dont they.

    4. MSVA marks are still a problem , The grind is horrible and possibility to get them too small.
    d7d81448-df6b-48cf-94a0-cf1ba87d861a_zpsish6zr2v.jpg

  • spideymtspideymt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 710 Arc User


    The devs will likely not respond unless there is something they can clarify.

    Wait a minute...they cant clarify that the droprate in MSVA for marks is still a PITA? Srly? So we got a end "dungeon" for a whole module and its like a punishment to get theese marks? Srly?
    And sry, but i see a lot good posts with a lot good points....but i cant find a single post from a dev since the change where it says "Ok...we have to check things like SVA drops or FBI". Do you?


  • wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    devs dont get it correctly, it is suppose to be a game and entertianment, and we are paying the price and getting milked so hard for our hard earned cash, and they seem never get enough cash and wanted more from us.
    they are using RNG to hurt us and get mental breakdowns, and we no longer trust them since mod 6.
    they made game very frustrated and unfun.
    i think FUN isnt thier vocabulary and only word they knew is greed. it has to stop.
  • diloul31diloul31 Member Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    It's not about what they should do but what they shoud NOT do to...

    Just take the exemple of xp exploit for rerolls...
    Maybe it wasnt intended and considered an exploit ( then it lasted too long like the peek bug)

    They fixed it. Let's say ok... Why not...

    But in the very same time they give a new service to buy a fully leveled 70 toon... for 4500z...

    It's like "What you are doing is wrong, you cheat the game and use an exploit !!! But, for 4500z, we close our eyes" >:)
    If only they were smart enought to fix the exploit in a mode and then ad the new service in the next one, it wouldn't feek like an other attempt to milk us....

    Yesterday i checked zen market and i czn't find this service anymore...
    Instead it was replaced by x2 boost xp for 5000z !!!! ( 45€ !!!)
    Add to this, 5x 4000z for finished campaigns and this 25000 in total...

    In what word is it ok to spend 25000z more than 200€ to make a reroll or even a main character in a game ?

    Isnt this pure madness ?

    For the price of a toon leveled and booned in NWO, you can buy 4 or 5 full new game...

    Is this isnt Greed and stupid then i don't understand...
    Post edited by diloul31 on
  • nameexpirednameexpired Member Posts: 1,282 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    diloul31 said:


    For the price of a toon leveled and booned in NWO, you can buy 4 or 5 full new game...

    Is this isnt Greed and stupid then i don't understand...

    I disagree. It's pure ingeniousness!
    It can't believe it, but people buy it! And out of respect I will refrain from calling players stupid. We get what we want.

    Tomorrow PWE might come up with a sticker "I leveled to 70 and got all boons in Neverwinter Online" for 500$ and people would buy it - to avoid playing the game!
    Humans are a crazy bunch ...

    Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    edited January 2017

    Ya, I am up to around a million AD in keys to get the wraps from ndemo with no luck so far. Most runs net 2 blue rings and a peridot. In one run, I got an account bound scroll of life. That is around 25k AD for 7k AD in drops. That is an 18k AD loss per run. I could have bought MW gloves, so this is not sustainable for the game.

    You do realize that in mod 11 you'll be able to queue for ndemo whenever you want so you could just farm it without keys, right?
    I8r4ux9.jpg
  • blindmonkeyzblindmonkeyz Member Posts: 289 Arc User
    So out of 10 runs of CN, i have gotten the same +1 to +3 rings. 1 +4 ring of deflect and a twined rope of dexterity. I honestly dont see a fix here. I know people have gotten good stuff, but seriously. I dont see a point of me continuing to run dungeons if i get the same trash i got before the fix. I dont expect something out of every run, but at least something different. You would think when you run a dungeon and there are 2 chests, that the chest you need the special key for, would give you better stuff than the epic key chest every time. not worse stuff. My twined rope came out of the epic chest. The loot tables need to be different between the 2 chests and give different items. not the same
    XB One
    LGPG Alliance
    Reagents of Death - Leader
    CW - Phoenix lvl 70 4034 (Main)
    GF - Spectre lvl 70 4012 (Main)
    GWF - Ice lvl 70 4010 (Main)
    SW - Zor lvl 70 3230 (Main)
    OP - Box lvl 70 3002 (Retired)

    PS4
    Look Good Play Good
    GWF - Ice lvl 70 3875 (Main)
    GF - Spectre lvl 70 2669 (Alt)

  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    urabask said:

    Ya, I am up to around a million AD in keys to get the wraps from ndemo with no luck so far. Most runs net 2 blue rings and a peridot. In one run, I got an account bound scroll of life. That is around 25k AD for 7k AD in drops. That is an 18k AD loss per run. I could have bought MW gloves, so this is not sustainable for the game.

    You do realize that in mod 11 you'll be able to queue for ndemo whenever you want so you could just farm it without keys, right?
    the wraps come from the chest so.... not sure how that follows. at least thats where mine came from.. but I do gotta wonder why anyone wants them? the new gear is so weird and unbalanced. seems gimmicky and silly. but ymmv of course :)
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  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    edited January 2017

    urabask said:

    Ya, I am up to around a million AD in keys to get the wraps from ndemo with no luck so far. Most runs net 2 blue rings and a peridot. In one run, I got an account bound scroll of life. That is around 25k AD for 7k AD in drops. That is an 18k AD loss per run. I could have bought MW gloves, so this is not sustainable for the game.

    You do realize that in mod 11 you'll be able to queue for ndemo whenever you want so you could just farm it without keys, right?
    the wraps come from the chest so.... not sure how that follows. at least thats where mine came from.. but I do gotta wonder why anyone wants them? the new gear is so weird and unbalanced. seems gimmicky and silly. but ymmv of course :)
    They can drop from the rewards outside of the chest too. They're only really good for power sharing on DCs and only if you've got enough recovery/AP gain that you can give up the stats from your armor.

    urabask said:

    Ya, I am up to around a million AD in keys to get the wraps from ndemo with no luck so far. Most runs net 2 blue rings and a peridot. In one run, I got an account bound scroll of life. That is around 25k AD for 7k AD in drops. That is an 18k AD loss per run. I could have bought MW gloves, so this is not sustainable for the game.

    You do realize that in mod 11 you'll be able to queue for ndemo whenever you want so you could just farm it without keys, right?
    Have you started Mod 11 on Preview? It is an unholy grind, makes Mod 10 dailies seem like a walk in the park. I will spend Mod 11 doing Mod 11, farming the weapons, and running SP and the new skirmish. I will not be grinding ndemo. My point is that there is no improved drop rates. I get the same stuff as I did before the change, I just lose keys. I would have declined every single chest so far.
    This is the same nonsense that people argue that when they say that the refinement success rates are lower than they are. The rates were improved for legendary rings and artifacts but everything else is the same so the chest will contain the same garbage as usual most of the time.
    I8r4ux9.jpg
  • spideymtspideymt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 710 Arc User
    Great...2 answers and both answers doesnt answer a question or is helpfull at all. I love theese guys.
    Question for the devs:
    Why new loot if the refinement is still so expansive? Why you dont decrease the costs for refining?

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  • wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    i wouldnt mind 5 dollars for monthly subscriptions, but not 14.99 a month, price too high for getting junks from chests.
    ESO has better format and better random loots, so many to pick any set you want, i dont see neverwinter had any choices we like ot wants.
    Daybreaker's (EQ2) subscription has several options, pay 9.99 a month or get 14.99 for higher quality subcription bonus.
    STO was so much better set up than NWO's format, STO gave everyone choice to have a lifetime account with lot of perks.

    only perk NWO had was VIP, but it is weak and full of junks, paying 10 dollars should be expected better quality, it should had some atleast 1-2 coal wards a month from invoking, and some lucky prize atleast once a month for 30 keys, and i still hadnt seen anything good since late Mod 5, lost over 18 months due to bad RNG with pulling commons and greens, in may that would be 2 yrs of junks.
    so i stop invoking and let my VIP expired several weeks ago.
    First 2 years were good and lot of fun, and then now, it is terrible, and I HATE RNG the most, it became more like gambling and that isnt RPG. NWO becoming more like slot machine more than STO's.
  • threat#0783 threat Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    Imagine you walk in MacDonald's because you really really are craving a Big Mac. You give the cashier your money and they hand you your bag. You open the bag, drooling with excitement, and pull out your Quarter Pounder.

    "What the hell?!? I bought a Big Mac!" you tell the cashier.

    "No," she says, "you bought a CHANCE for Big Mac. Looks like your RNG pulled a Quarter Pounder. Try again and see if you get it"

    That's what a RNG key is. No one wants that. I would never pay money for "the chance" to get something. I will never buy Zen for keys.

    I've only recently starting playing because my friends wanted to try it. Im still a new player on PS4, so I'm still learning and haven't even seen real endgame content. But everything I ever get in this game will have to come from ADX. I have VIP and would have happily paid real money for the signpost because I love QoL stuff like that. I will run a dungeon or two with my VIP keys and maybe get a second chest if I have the campaign key. But probably not.

    The concept of paid RNG to recieved a reward is so grotesquely outdated it's shocking to see.
  • btairbornebtairborne Member Posts: 352 Arc User
    You would think more than 75 different people might have chimed in their opinion or something about the key changes since it was announced about a month ago on Jan 4 (page 17)...but nope. That's all and less if I'm strict about it. I was curious so I counted. The far majority are upset but not all seemed that upset. I know there are other threads but it's basically the same people padding their post count in the threads (diloul31 vs. trinity706 go!).

    SO I CHALLENGE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO HAVE NOT POSTED, POST YOUR OPINION and let the cards fall as they may. I'm tired of seeing the same 10 people never run out of things to say here. I'm sure the Devs are too!
  • araneaxaraneax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 639 Arc User

    You would think more than 75 different people might have chimed in their opinion or something about the key changes since it was announced about a month ago on Jan 4 (page 17)...but nope. That's all and less if I'm strict about it. I was curious so I counted. The far majority are upset but not all seemed that upset. I know there are other threads but it's basically the same people padding their post count in the threads (diloul31 vs. trinity706 go!).

    SO I CHALLENGE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO HAVE NOT POSTED, POST YOUR OPINION and let the cards fall as they may. I'm tired of seeing the same 10 people never run out of things to say here. I'm sure the Devs are too!

    @btairborne

    I was told to speak for my whole guild, By my guild leaders and other officers.
    That would be full 150 accounts. Lets say 130 are every day active.

    For the whole guild. Everybody got asked what they think of this change.
    My guild leaders also posted in this thread but it went into the bad zone.
    :P
    d7d81448-df6b-48cf-94a0-cf1ba87d861a_zpsish6zr2v.jpg

  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Don't speak of the bad zone.... it's like asking for the bye bye man....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • araneaxaraneax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 639 Arc User
    edited February 2017

    Don't speak of the bad zone.... it's like asking for the bye bye man....

    @demonmonger
    Someone had to do it.
    :P
    ( P.S. i know where this post is going ) lol
    d7d81448-df6b-48cf-94a0-cf1ba87d861a_zpsish6zr2v.jpg

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