You don't get it my friend i stack the r8 from shatandar and tyranny because its the only thing with real value for my gold.
You want me to sell them to buy gold to buy keys that will give me nothing ?
Let's say i do everyday sharandar, in a month i have 30 X 50k ( during x2 event).
It means 1 500 000 rp !
Lets say i buy a key everyday instead, what will i get from 30 keys, if im lucky a compagnon or green artifact i absolutely dont need and theirs value drop everyday... My only drop in 2 dozens of extra keys used gave an 250k artifact not to mention free vip keys...
The math is easy here, in the long run. By now everyone with a few months of playing on ps4 should have most of the artifacts they want and just need to upgrade them. You just need the rp... I had some keys before update like around 25 keys, all i got from using them was a 250k worth artifact and its price keeps going down...
Why the 2 dunjeons with the chance at bests rewards ( rings and wand) are easier to make than epics dunjeons that require my gold ?
Im not rushing anything... I m stucked to 2900 gs until march... Last x2 refinement was december if im right... December to march for the next x2 event. When is the next x2 ad too(not even scheduled at all) ?
We use to have more of these events you remenber ? Dont you see the patern here ?
They keep slowing you down... They keep adding every means to prevent you from acquire or upgrading your stuff unless you pay...
There is a decent limit of the amount of money you should put in a free game... I spend 150e since the game was launched on ps4... Not a single euro will go out of my pocket for these con artists, i just have 3 months vip and then bye bye ( no pun intended ). Maybe even before with Mass effects coming soon. At some point Ctyptic need to show us some love instead being greedy and always more greedy.
You don't get it my friend i stack the r8 from shatandar and tyranny because its the only thing with real value for my gold.
You want me to sell them to buy gold to buy keys that will give me nothing ?
Im not rushing anything... I m stucked to 2900 gs until march... Last x2 refinement was december if im right.. December to march for the next x2 event. When is the next x2 ad too(not even scheduled at all) ?
We use to have more of these events you remenber ? Dont you see the patern here ?
They keep slowing you down... They keep adding every means to prevent you from acquire or upgrading your stuff unless you pay...
There is a decent limit of the amount of money you should put in a free game... I spend 150e since the game was launched on ps4... Not a single euro will go out of my pocket for these con artists, i just have 3 months vip and then bye bye ( no pun intended ).
Maybe even before with Mass effects coming soon.
At some point Ctyptic need to show us some love instead being greedy and always more greedy.
You don't have to sell them all (my statement was not suggested that you do so). Selling 1 Dragon's Hoard enchantment on the trade house will produce enough gold for about 4 keys (that require 5 gold, more if they require less).
Player's wanted better drop rates and they got them, consequently value of various items have gone down because there are more available. You can't have higher drop rates and high value for the most part.
New content not even a full week old that has relic weapons that require RP's just like artifact weapons, wouldn't make much sense to have another x2 refinement so soon when not many players have had a good enough chance to get everything they need to even restore, let alone upgrade them. It also gives the players who want a chance to be "first" to spend money and or AD to get it done. Players don't have to wait until x2 refinement (crowding their bags, bank, etc.), it's not like the items are locked until x2 refinement, players have to weigh their options and go with what works for them.
Again if speed bumps are not put in without a cost(s) players will rush the new content then complain that there isn't content when there is PLENTY of things to do and they choose not to. Declined content is STILL content.
NO player is forced to play this game or to spend ANY money, it can be done solely from in-game effort, what it is is that players see others at higher and higher ilvls, having various items, enchants, etc. then wanting the same things and or wanting to progress faster putting pressure on themselves to do so. That's like going to a store spending money then complaining that you spent money on something you wanted rather than needed. You can't fault Cryptic because players want to be great and do what they do to achieve it (spend money, etc.). Cryptic has shown PLENTY of love already by providing players a FREE-to-pay game... if nothing else they have done that.
People have a few options in regard to Neverwinter: - Don't play. - Put in in-game effort to progress. - Put in more in-game effort to progress faster. - Pay some here and there to progress even faster. - Pay frequently to progress even faster than that.
Post edited by trinity706#8838 on
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
I see so everything is well handed in this game, it's just us that discovered what an mmo is with NWO and dont play it right... My bad then...
You probably are a pc player... You remenber we only got NWO on PS4 a few months ago ? To be concerned by the new relics upgrading would mean that we already upgraded everything else and have only new relics to work on...
This is so far away from our reality on PS4 my friend... Many players still strugle to get twisted set...
So maybe for you the x2 makes no sense but what about us on PS4 ?!
Do you really think that it's possible for free to get your artifacts, runes, enchants maxed in 3 or 4 months ? Or only get a decent GS to be accepted by partys who want to run tings very fast? And then not giving us a x2 refinement for 3 months is a good move?
Sure i can put all these refinements in my artifacts now and it will be a pure waste...
I should record chat just for a minute on PS4 so you can understand what's happening... It's only : " need hight dps for 12min run CN" "Need tank" "Need DC" If you don't fit in any of these you can just wait hours in queue that will lead to a party with a 2300 tank that will not wistand Orcus... God i have to kill him myself alone or with other dps class as a warlock most of the few time i manage to get to the boss... (please don't go with alliance, most of them left the game with all this bs)
What do you mean by efforts ? I do sharandar/outerdark/dunjeons/skirmish everyday and now icewindale.
What do you want more ?
Im amazed by how you flip the reality and totally ignore what is obvious...
Our discussion is pointlesd tbh... Your consider us players doing shiit and Cryptic handling everything like it should be.
Maybe these 24 pages are just kiddies that need to grow up or grow a brain after all...
Or maybe we just know when things goes too far and dont like to be treated like cash cows... Our money and time invested respected instead to have always more walls to make us pay more.
I see so everything is well handed in this game, it's just us that discovered what an mmo is with NWO and dont play it right...
My bad then...
You probably are a pc player... You remenber we only got NWO on PS4 a few months ago ?
To be concerned by the new relics upgrading would mean that we already upgraded everything else and have only new relics to work on...
This is so far away from our reality on PS4 my friend... Many players still strugle to get twisted set...
So maybe for you the x2 makes no sense but what about us on PS4 ?!
Do you really think that it's possible for free to get your artifacts, runes, enchants maxed in 3 or 4 months ?
Or only get a decent GS to be accepted by partys who want to run tings very fast?
And then not giving us a x2 refinement for 3 months is a good move?
Sure i can put all these refinements in my artifacts now and it will be a pure waste...
I should record chat just for a minute on PS4 so you can understand what's happening...
It's only : " need hight dps for 12min run CN" "Need tank" "Need DC"
If you don't fit in any of these you can just wait hours in queue that will lead to a party with a 2300 tank that will not wistand Orcus...
God i have to kill him myself alone or with other dps class as a warlock most of the few time i manage to get to the boss...
(please don't go with alliance, most of them left the game with all this bs)
Not all PC players are here for long, and some dont play that much time as the others or have more toons (like me, i have 4 toon to refine stuff) I Agree with you 100% we need those 2x Refining weekends ...
(plus get a mount with Wanderer's fortune and some Dragon Hoard enchants, it helps a lot)
The mount Bear with wanderer boonn was my 1st buy in the game, and it wasnt on purpose for refinement stones, back then i did not realise how much you need these.
I enjoyed the first hours playing and back at the time i thought : Free games dont exist so i'm gona buy a mount just no to stay behind my guild farming particules as i always arrived after them and didnt get the particules xD Plus when i like a game even free, i buy to support. Even when i could download "free"games on pc , i bought the game in the end just to support devs.
It should be that way, you enjoy the content, you naturally support the devs. With cryptic it's the opposite, you dont spend because you enjoy the game but just to jump other these damn walls...
something similar hapened with Destiny, a great game design but soon with the sucess they became greedy and killed their game and in the process they lost 80% of players...
Making maximum people pay for a small fee is reasonable... Making it so pricy that only a small amount of players can offord it is a pure non-sense.
I thought 300 zen for 5 keys that I could choose when to take the loot was reasonable and I bought 5 for each of my charters that I play.
If the keys are taken on every chest, for loot I may or may not want, I will not buy the keys unless they are 5 for 100 zen which is approximately the same AD cost as epic keys from the wondrous bazaar.
Even at that price they are not worth the loot in the underdark skirmishes so that content is dead to me unless we can get the timers down a bit on the campaign keys.
Any way we can get mod 5 pvp gear/ the old draconic templar gear as earn-able transmutes from a skirmish or something? Would be awesome!
Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
You probably are a pc player... You remenber we only got NWO on PS4 a few months ago ?
Incorrect. I play on PS4 and follow what's going on on PC to better prep myself and players I play with to what is coming down the line. Neverwinter has been out on PS4 for at least 6 months now (a "few"?).
To be concerned by the new relics upgrading would mean that we already upgraded everything else and have only new relics to work on...
This is so far away from our reality on PS4 my friend... Many players still strugle to get twisted set...
Incorrect. The Twisted set is no longer "top tier", I don't even have a twisted set. Instead of fighting to get into MDemo runs back then I was running Dragonflight, questing and ranking up my gear, artifacts and the Guild I am in. The new relics would allow players who don't yet have BiS weapons to skip going for those and make progress towards a set that is more powerful at rank 1 than rank 45 artifact weapons.
Do you really think that it's possible for free to get your artifacts, runes, enchants maxed in 3 or 4 months ? Or only get a decent GS to be accepted by partys who want to run tings very fast?
Yes (though I have my Artifacts and belt Legendary, everything else is Epic). Are you not in a Guild/Alliance? Being in a Guild and or a Guild within an Alliance alleviates waiting longer periods of time to queue for a dungeon(s). Playing by yourself pretty much substantially increases the time it takes to progress within this game. Making friends and helping each other goes a long way, can clear daily quests in a zone in less than half the time, make your own dungeon groups, share resources, etc. The players that supposedly left pretty much were not cut out for this game, pretty much all they wanted to do was run dungeons (not that there's anything wrong with that) and not put in the effort to keep it going after the key change. There are still tons of players to replace them.
I do sharandar/outerdark/dunjeons/skirmish everyday and now icewindale.
What do you want more ?
"Efforts" meaning pretty much anything that you are currently not doing that will help you progress faster than you are now. I have posted a number of examples in previous posts...
Im amazed by how you flip the reality and totally ignore what is obvious...
Our discussion is pointlesd tbh... Your consider us players doing shiit and Cryptic handling everything like it should be.
What is obvious is that players seemingly think Cryptic is forcing them to play their game and is going into their pockets and taking their money, either pay with money or use in-game efforts to fund the progress you want. If you don't "pay" it will take you longer, not as a punishment but as a reality of the game itself (it's an MMO it's SUPPOSED to take a considerable amount of time & effort). However long it takes a F2P player to reach whatever pinnacle(s) is pretty much how long it was intended for it to take. The Zen market allows for shortcuts to be taken, those shortcuts come with a cost that can be paid in $$$ and or AD take your pick. Players that produce considerable amounts of AD can do much more than players that don't within the same time frame.
How do you think free-to-play games stay alive? By giving the players the "selfish" things/changes they want without the option of getting something in return? Ok, let's say Cryptic lowers the requirements to craft keys, the players would be getting what they want, what would Cryptic get, more happy F2P players that "might" spend some money but more than likely won't because they are getting more from the same/less effort than before, where's the trade off?
Players again and again loom that players will spend money if XYZ happens but it isn't guaranteed and in doing business guarantees are what get a lot of attention. All the players that complain(ed) that if keys didn't cost as much more people would buy them will "soon" have the opportunity to have their statements tested when LDK's go down to 250 Zen. If the number of keys bought with real money doesn't go up by a considerable amount then what? Should Cryptic turn a blind eye towards such claims in the future?
It should be that way, you enjoy the content, you naturally support the devs.
With cryptic it's the opposite, you dont spend because you enjoy the game but just to jump other these damn walls...
There are pretty much FAR more F2P's than those that spend money and a number of those F2P players complain all over the forums about a game they themselves are not supporting, the changes they want being ones that will further them being F2P players, not ones that benefit both the players and the developers/publishers. Again, there is NOTHING in the Zen market that is REQUIRED to progress in this game. Anybody willing to bet on this?
Making it so pricy that only a small amount of players can offord it is a pure non-sense.
If a player's only option to get something was to spend real money then that may be true though if those player's can get it some other way(s) then the amount doesn't matter/matters less.
Again, a lot of players feel that 300 Zen is too much for 5 LDK's (it really isn't if you invest in the game effectively). VIP will pay for itself over time and there are great drops to be gotten from epic chests (Thayan Book of the Dead last night, 500k), if players don't want to buy keys then they don't have to, they will just be opting out of an additional chance at something good which is what the dungeon chests essentially are.
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
I see it as put in the effort required to get the desired result(s), you see it as you are being forced to pay real money in a game that you can earn the same currency in-game with effort.
Just because I don't agree with all of your statements and you all of mine doesn't mean we are not effectively communicating our points of view.
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
I said i will not continue this debate but let's clear something if you are ok with that .
You keep saying that you can afford everything without money... You keep saying that but in fact, you never really say how to to achieve that. Someone quote earlier if i'm right you too before with a "such as ?" (meaning how ? )
You want to be honest ? List us in details how to achieve the same result without paying anything. The same things that took years on pc..
By that i mean: - acquire the artifacts feeders or not. - acquire the goods enchants ( negation/dread /vorpal ect not the useless ones ) - the bondings runes - all the enchants - all the insigna - the legion of marks needed to refine - the gigantic amount of rp needed to refine artifacts, runes, enchants. - the goods pets - the goods mounts - ect ect. Because i'm sure forgeting other stuff to do.
When you'll prove me that there is an easy way to afford all that in 5 or 6 months with a life ( i mean 8 hours work + transport + wife/kids + house works + friends). Then i'll eat my hat.
Otherwise what you are stating make zero sense at all. Because even then, you said that if it's too easy to get stuff by being selfish, it kills the f2p... But at the same time, you're telling us you can achieve everything with just " play the game". So which one it is ? Because if the second statement is right, why pay anything at all to cryptic ?
I will not leave my guild until the last person in my guild leaves. The captain always stays last on the sinking ship.
I like this, thanks for saying it.
@sundance777 I am sure plenty of people feel that way.
I am happy with my guild. Before this last key change i finally got back the people who left . This change is kinda messing that up.
In the end we are all still here. Aren't we. Playing and writting in order to change dev minds, since we like NW and the people we met on this game. My guild , i love it. People in it are like my second family. I do not wish to leave them. And i do not wish for them to leave the guild.
So what i said. I stand by it. If the ship sinks i am going with it .
When you'll prove me that there is an easy way to afford all that in 5 or 6 months with a life ( i mean 8 hours work + transport + wife/kids + house works + friends).
Then i'll eat my hat.
I will humor you, though I will not go into "too' much detail
-36k AD on main character (however a player see fit) + 16k on 3 additional characters (bought with AD after the first week) is about 84k AD daily (could squeeze in a few more but will go with 4 for the sake of this example) - about 588k in a week - about 2.35kk in a month (28 days)
By the end the initial month it would be about 3.07kk AD/month from running a main character (quests, etc.) and 3 other characters - 1-2.5 hours a day Monday-Thursday - 4+ hours Friday-Sunday - 8 hrs of sleep, 8 hrs of work (Monday-Thursday) - 5+ hours a day for family, friends, etc.
Here's a rough breakdown of what could be bought/acquired/gained over the first 6 months of Neverwinter's release with the above strategy and not spending a dime:
- About 1.190kk/month AD in sales from the enchanted key opened lockboxes with VIP. - About 1.4kk/month in AD sales from professions on one character (1/3 nothing, 1/3 at least 50k, 1/3 100k, all underestimated), 2.9kk on 2 characters (not calculated in), 4.3kk on 3 characters (not calculated in) - x4 additional character slots (after the first week) - VIP for over 12 months from AD conversion (the first month being covered after about 2 weeks) - 3k+ ilvl on main character -3 Epic Zen market mounts - 2 event epic mounts - Multiple Runic bags - Multiple Bank/Shared Bank expnaions - x3 Bonding runestones from event or bought and ranked up to 10+ - Utility enchantments bought/ranked up to 12 - Offense and defense enchants bought with trade bars (R7) and ranked up to 10+ then BiS enchants bought with AD - Transcendent Negation (5kk) - Transcendent Dread (6kk) - x1000 preservation wards (over estimated) - x5 Coalescent wards - 15 Epic insignia's (between 60k and 120k AD each) - All 4 Archons (2kk AD) - 5th companion from event - x2 BiS Artifacts bought - 1 BiS Artifact as a drop from dungeons - 1 BiS Class Sigil - All campaigns at 100% (Storm King's Thunder at 80%) - Various marks from celestial bag, Dread ring, Sharandar, Wondrous Bazaar and professions - 2-3+ professions at level 25 - Enough RP from wanderer's fortune + Dragon's hoard + fey blessing + quartermaster to at least get all artifacts, necklace and belt to Legendary, and weapons to Epic. - An active Guild running Dragonflight on weekends and sometimes during the week - Guild boons, Guild dungeon runs
I overestimated a number of the costs to compensate for variables like fluctuating AD exchange rate and trade house prices, also didn't calculate in but 1 rare dungeon drop. With the above strategy and the current content arguably it may be "easier" for a brand new player given the Sea of Moving Ice campaigns grants high value items that can be sold and a number of artifacts have dropped in price by over half.
Post edited by trinity706#8838 on
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Thanks that exactly what i thought and i supose you know what kind of answers you'll get against this strategy... Playing many characters to generate ad and save it..
You are assuming : -that verybody own 4 characters when most players struggle with 1 and when they do posses others characters it is mostly mules because bags cost an arm in this game... -that everybody on PS4 where hardcore gamers that began the game from day one knowng exactly how the economy works, on what to invest to maximaze profits. Avoid all beginners mystakes and even more ... they created new characters from the very beginning to play this strategy...
The reality is that me like many players discovered a free game some weeks after release and even now and they did not jump on wiki and reddit or here to anticipate what to do before playing...
A game is fun when you discover it step by step... I made a lot of mystakes when i started and discovering things months after release, that's also part of the fun...
You are basically asking of a new player to invest straight away for multiple characters, vip and play the long and boring farming long run while knowing everything about mechanics in advance like this is even just imaginable...
Honestly, this isnt fair to exept that from us, you realize that right ? ...
In fact this strategy is exactly something that an old pc player knowing the future release on PS4 coming, would anticipate and prepare to dominate ah for exemple ( a little zen could really help from the begining )...
I perfectly undestand this strategy and hey, why not if you have the time and patience ( lets call it this way to not be rude ^^)
Believe me, most of us humans we just can't...
It's absolutely not a pattern that the "casual" players can follow.
It's almost like practicing the game as dayly ritual, a routine implanted in your life... Play kinda dayly ok, but not like this... Just my opinion, everyone enjoy theirs game like they want , i respect that.
But i really think you should reconize that this is absolutely not viable for most of players and too late anyway...
That said i really apreciate that you took the time to explain, maybe it will help others interested in the game.
Thanks that exactly what i thought and i supose you know what kind of answers you'll get against this strategy...
Playing many characters to generate ad and save it..
I'm not assuming or expecting anything, especially not players spending money, you asked me how a player could achieve a number of things in 5-6 months without spending a dime and within certain parameters, I pretty much laid it out and now it's something else LoL.
What I did not include (at first) was that the additional characters are covered by the AD gained from the first week and soon after VIP is covered as well, you seemingly overlooked the three sets of numbers I first posted. Taking those numbers and calculating the amounts and comparing it to the Zen prices would have shown that the Zen items I listed as gotten are well within the AD gained from running those characters.
The underlying agenda behind that post is to show people that this game requires considerable amounts of effort to achieve the sizeable progress a number of people expect to be able achieve with "minimal" effort. The items sold on the AH are items produced by professions and are ones that players purchase everyday, you don't have to know what's going on on PC to discover PS4 market trends and or what sells for higher amounts, etc., you just have to look and pay attention.
My definition of "casual" and or "fun" may differ from that of people here which is fine. Going by my example using 4 characters it would take about 6 months, it's safe to assume that running 2 characters would take 12 months, 1 character, 2 years, so you are in part correct about players on PC taking years to achieve a comparable amount though the information shows that utilizing even 2 characters will significantly reduce the overall time. Of course that may require longer play sessions and or number of days of the week played but it's doable which is also part of my point. Buying LDK's running 2 character is quite doable even with the 2nd character pretty much only doing dungeons, add on a lucrative profession or run 1 character and a lucrative profession and a "casual" player (one that doesn't play daily) could buy more LDK's than they could pretty much ever use.
Pretty much any course of play is viable if a player is willing to put in the effort whether it is 1, 2 or more characters.
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
I'm not sure where i can find the list of forbidden websites. So i hope, i'm not violating a rule of this board. But think a lot people will find this article very interesting about what's going on around the world about lockboxes and gamble in video game.
Looks like it would be a good thing for devs of every game with lockboxes to really anticipate new laws concerning this bizness model.
I consider lockboxes that need enchanted keys "good gambling" because of the generally good value stuff in it but the extra chest seems to fall in " bad gambling " category ^^'
I consider lockboxes that need enchanted keys "good gambling" because of the generally good value stuff in it but the extra chest seems to fall in " bad gambling " category ^^'
Im opening lockboxes everyday for years and I never got anything good...Sorry but I really rather see unbound or bound purple mounts companions and artifacts from dungeon chest then artifact packs with some trade bars.
I'm opening them everyday since a few months and i only had once an "epic compagnon lockbox" wich i sold for 380k.
Plus i don't buy keys at all exept when i have a voucher for an enchanted key ^^
What i meant by good value is for exemple yesterday i got a "frozen companion box" and with a coupon an hour later, an other frozen compagnion box. Theirs prices is 44000k, i put them on ah for 39999k and they were sold in seconds
So with the fees, i got 75k, one key was "free vip" the other with the voucher 75zen.
So overall it is ok for me
To be honest, i sell everything i get from enchanted chests because i never had any luck and sometime Cryptic is just puking on us with whats there is inside...
For exemple i opened many "Evil treasure box" and all i ever got from it was a hamster transmute that worth 15 da... 15da...
Stuff like that in an enchanted chest is an insult to the player who will open it.
There is more garbage like ostrian relics or crapp like that but still i believe if you are not a gambler and sell evrything, it's valuable.
The giant boxs gave me a lot of epics marks, jewels for refinement, ect that i could sell too but keep for my use.
On the other side, epics extra chests will give you pure <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> 90% of time.
So i prefer "decent stuff i can sell everyday" than pure garbage most likely binded in extra chests dunjeons.
IIt's not a secret i just hate Cryptic for their greedy politic but VIP is the best value imo in all that bs f2p system. ( why i'm still here ? Because i love D&D and the game still have fun components )
what should be implemented so that it isnt totally out of balance is that if you have 100% completed a zone the key cost for those zones should be get 1 free weekly w/ a production time of 10seconds and everyone after that all resources and time is cut in half.
this allows players to strive to 100% complete zones (or buy the zone completion packs which im sure yall dont mind) and also rewards those players who do so.
Hey everyone! We are definitely still reducing the price of the Legendary Dragon keys as announced. We're hoping to get this in ASAP.
@nitocris83 You mean, now that you suckered those willing to give you guys the benefit of the doubt into buying a few keys and pretty much everyone is deciding they're just not good value for money and represent at best a second rng reroll, NOW you're doing the changes to price that were promised to begin with and which should totally have been made when the key change was put into effect.
Seems legit.
This would be laughable if it wasn't so sad. We're now a week into the key change and while I could say that there is a slight net benefit for middle tier players (those who are still building up their toons and who hover in the 2.5-3k ), my overall status is, not impressed. here are my impressions
- I start with the positive, getting the artifacts you actually want for your build is now within the reach of the aforementioned class of players and that gives them something of a new goal and a realistic possibility of achieving it. Kitting out my tank with Seldarine gear was nigh on impossible before this change. - Dungeon runs at tier 1 feel a bit more profitable as a result,which in turn frees time to run other content. Nowhere near profitable enough to free up the time, but enough that I prefer going into Lostmauth rather than the nth visit to cloak tower. - That said, the loot from the extra chest is still very lacklustre, and the poor drops are the norm rather than the exception. RNG is still RNG after all, but while I appreciate that regular chests have a chance to drop special loot (don't change that), you won't convince everyone to invest neither time nor money into the special keys. - The key change also completely killed all motivation for running the SVA and getting the relic gear. I for one will stick to my twisted guns and hold out hope against all hope that whatever comes with mod 11 is both worthy and fun to obtain. The grind is so bad in mod 10 and 10.5 that I actually am developing stockholm syndrome for the "good old days" of farming motes. What I said about the tier 1 dungeons doesn't apply to SVA due to the absurdly random chance based nature of the refining process, and it gives me very little to look forward to in the end game aside from a repetitiveness designed to disguise a lack of actual content. In other words, this change still shafts the top players. - Binding stuff on account is ludricous and takes away the joy of getting something. We won't want very single new piece of curio that drops, but the person next to me might want it. even as a ploy to trick me into buying more companion slots, it fails. - The ability of players to obtain their coveted artifacts creates a new void when it comes for new shinies to strive for. New artifact sets are needed to keep our eyes on the prize and keep running your skinner box. The new sets of gear that have been dropping are very much a mixed bag that do not scratch that itch at all.
If these impressions largely resemble the negative feedback we were giving before the change, it's a sign that the fears of the community were largely justified and even the net positives were poorly communicated (how much flak would have been avoided had you guys simply stated "don't worry, we increased the drops for non bound rare items in the regular chests as well and the legendary keys simply souble your chances"? would not solve the woes of those farming relic gear, but it would probably calm those running the remaining dungeons) or implementend in a somewhat haphazard way.
Im opening lockboxes everyday for years and I never got anything good...
If you would, define "good"...
I'm pretty sure over time the value of what you did get (and hopefully sold) has met or exceeded the value of those "good" items. One time before I bought 40 enchanted keys and more than doubled the AD from that purchase...
To be honest, i sell everything i get from enchanted chests because i never had any luck and sometime Cryptic is just puking on us with whats there is inside...
Pretty selling whatever (or using) is a good move to make because at least you get something, when you open whatever comes out you are taking the "double or nothing" route.
On the other side, epics extra chests will give you pure HAMSTER 90% of time.
Hmph, I don't know what you see but trade house prices have dropped by over half on a lot of things so "90%" is quite exaggerated, you can't compare your drops to everyone else's and still say it's "bad", a lot of somebody's are getting something which means something good is going on overall.
what should be implemented so that it isnt totally out of balance is that if you have 100% completed a zone the key cost for those zones should be get 1 free weekly w/ a production time of 10seconds and everyone after that all resources and time is cut in half.
this allows players to strive to 100% complete zones (or buy the zone completion packs which im sure yall dont mind) and also rewards those players who do so.
Again, looming "players will pay for it" does not bode well. On one hand you got players getting something tangible immediately with having to put in less effort to achieve this or that and on the other end you got Cryptic hoping that the vast amount of players that already don't want to spend money on the game will buy 4k Zen campaign completions... that's not remotely an even trade-off. Players already have incentive to "100%" a campaign, boons, vouchers and keys with the latter two also being incentive to return to them.
What is "out of balance" is what players are doing in-game. What I mean by that is the end game zones all have something to gain from them (resources for keys, vouchers, etc.), a player's time is limited so what they actually want to do is as well and a number of players are choosing to do whatever it is they want to do then seemingly complaining that they weren't able to do this or that as well. Players are seemingly flocking to the new zone (Sea of Moving Ice), spending a lot of time there and not seeing the effect on what else they are trying to accomplish (in other words players are spreading themselves thin). The new content isn't going to disappear... Whatever amount(s) of time a player spends doing this or that DIRECTLY effects other tasks. I don't mind it taking 2-3 sessions to complete "everything" (daily/weekly quests, etc.), it takes the pressure off. I used to run multiple zones on a daily basis and even though I could handle it quite there was this pressure to keep it up. Soon as I stopped trying to do it all daily not only did it go away but as weird as it may seem, it allowed me to accomplish even more overall.
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
There isn't some point when you think : "Ok, 99% of players think there is a problem and i'm the only one saying the exact opposite... "
Count how many different players have posted in this thread and then compare it to the thousands of players that play this game, does 99% even seem remotely accurate? Not at all. A small percentage of players have expressed their concerns here, what that means depends on how someone looks at it. If I'm the only with this type of perspective it still doesn't make me wrong and everyone else right.
In so many words where have I stated that I don't see a problem and or there isn't a problem with the key change? Even if one time I'm pretty sure you can see/have seen the other posts where I have stated what players can do make the change work more in their favor, have I not? Instead of not playing this game I'm suggesting players do things in-game to help alleviate the results of the key change, if they don't want to that is their choice but there ARE things players can do to get around it without spending money, it just takes effort (a little here and there is better than not at all while just complaining).
A number of players don't want to put in any more effort than they currently had been and the results of not doing so is their progressed is slowed plain and simple. With the amount of content the same amount of effort as before isn't going to cut it. The players that have more limited time may want to prioritize/rotate what they do during their play sessions (it's ust a suggestion). Do I want everyone to run multiple characters, no, do I want them to increase their AD potential to help fund the things they want to do, yes.
Post edited by trinity706#8838 on
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
trinity said it makes no sense to lower the cost/time of making keys because it lowers the incentive to buy keys.. but then goes on to talk about not buying keys wiht cash money but ad converted to zen.. so net for PW is Zero cash. lets get that out of the way. for 99.9 percent of the players they aren't spending real money.
and teh cost of the keys in zen isn't worth what you will get back out of the average key. so it's not really worth it.
people who spend real money are gonna spend if its easier to make the keys or not because they aren't the types to be bothered with any kind of grind.
If they wanted to see a lot of actual cash money they'd need to make it a good deal. 50 keys for five bucks off the zen market in game but in the actual store where you must pay money. I might go for that. I bet a lot of people would. there is some value for your five bucks there. enough dungeons to actually make a difference.
but 5 bucks for ten keys. no way. absolutely no way.
realistically, it will make zero bottom line difference for them if they make it faster to make the keys or not.
this is a dungeons and dragons game. the core of this game is dungeons and dragons. those things should be free to play. not gated. there should be no discussion of oh then they won't make a buck off us. bucks should be gained in other ways that are not strong arming if they want to maintain their player base and the good will of the player base.
trinity said it makes no sense to lower the cost/time of making keys because it lowers the incentive to buy keys.. but then goes on to talk about not buying keys wiht cash money but ad converted to zen.. so net for PW is Zero cash. lets get that out of the way.
Just to put it out there, that was not my entire statement. Since the keys can be obtained in two different ways them being in the Zen market period will pretty much ALWAYS offer an incentive to obtain them. Btw, to convert AD to Zen somebody has to buy the Zen in the first place (PW getting revenue), players can't just throw AD into the air and Zen come down, no bought Zen, no AD conversion.
Go back and look, a number of people are complaining that the keys are too expensive and aren't worth the cost (money or AD) even though they clearly and simply offer a chance at better loot, not some static value that must be reimbursed every time one is used. As a result of those complaints I offered them solutions on how to get the LDK's without spending money and how to increase their AD gains... If players could bring in 100's of thousands of AD a day this would arguably increase their incentive to get them (people with more tend to spend more).
As someone stated "What about shortening the timers for making campaign keys to 2 hours and removing the gold cost? That seems like a better idea." I replied in so many words that there aren't enough daily quests to even be able to utilize that suggestion for any campaign other than Underdark and it's crafted Greater Demonic Key thus players seemingly want to farm Demonic Encounters to pretty much completely circumvent the incentive to obtain the Zen market LDK's (through money or AD conversion) with MINIMAL effort through farming Demonic Encounters. How hard is to hit a few demons and stand around until the encounter is finished by other players? I'm pretty sure people see it quite often and it's pretty much one of the reasons players tend to skip Demonic Escape overall (they can't hit a few, stand around and be rewarded). Do you or anyone else really feel that this type of game play should be rewarded at an increased rate?
realistically, it will make zero bottom line difference for them if they make it faster to make the keys or not.
Oh really? How it is now do you think there is more or less incentive to obtain LDK's than if players could simply farm demonic encounters and craft Greater Demonic Keys themselves 10x as fast? For players that seemingly don't want to support the game financially and want things the easy way all the way around (skim through the pages and read the posts) a change like that will decrease the chances of them spending even further.
this is a dungeons and dragons game. the core of this game is dungeons and dragons. those things should be free to play. not gated.
Dungeons are F2P, just not free to farm the chests, there's a difference. Players can run as many dungeons as they want but the number of chests they can open depends on the effort they are putting into the game and or the amount of money they are willing to spend.
Post edited by trinity706#8838 on
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
they aren't free to play if you don't get the chest at the end. that's the purpose of doing a dungeon. getting the chest at the end.
zen is a made up currency. it's not real. they feed zen into the market. I've seen it happen. people do not have to buy zen for there to be zen. furthermore, pw gets nothing once the zen is bought. when we do trades when we convert our ad to zen.. that equals no new revenue for pw. people would have to be buying the zen for the purchase of these keys in order for it to translate over to them making a profit off this. you'd have to be saying. "Oh, that's value. I'd shell out real money for that convenience. " and the appropriate thing to go after that phrase is (said no one ever)
the things that people will shell out real money for are vanity items and things that have value for the player. no one is going to spend cash money for this set of keys. it's a 5 dollar min. so ten keys for five bucks. When odds are still a plus one for the effort? no.. people aren't doing it that way. they're farming and converting their ad to zen to buy keys rather than pay for them. (if they decide the keys are the best value for their ad. which for the most part they probably won't.) they'll probably do something else when they run out of keys. that's going to translate into a much smaller dungeon playing pool... which is going to translate into a much smaller player base over all
making it a shorter timer/lessening resources to make keys is a way to keep good will with the player base. if they want money they should offer a 50 pack for five bucks that you cannot buy with zen outside of the ingame store. that has value for the money. and would definitely compete even with people who don't mind farming.
I could probably go on and on at length about things and my suggestions relative to keys and drops, but I will try to be concise. Let me first explain before I seemingly go off on a tangent this all relates to the bound/unbound loot question.
I enjoyed exploring the new zones, facing new enemies, and experiencing a new story, but I don't like the new zones, purely and simply because I don't like spending 15 minutes traveling to and from the places I need to get to to complete the things that take 10 seconds, or spend 15 minutes searching for a thing or a specific type of mob that takes 3 seconds to kill. And I especially hate having to do things I don't enjoy or are mindless over and over and over again for an extended period of time like fishing, I have little patience for it. Don't get me wrong, SoMI Day 1 I was out there with everyone else fishing my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off and seeking out treasures, got tired of it quickly, but did it for a couple weeks for the weapons.
Then I discovered the situation with the marks (and I do kind of feel like it was a GOTCHA! move, considering drop rate and how many marks they need to reach legendary compared to previous arti weapon mark requirements) from SVA and realized I'd have to be doing the same stuff I am growing to hate 6 months from now and got extremely discouraged. I'd much rather engage in the areas of the game that I enjoy, spontaneously engage in raids and dungeons, help friends or guildies out, enagage in events, or do something or see something in game I haven't done in a while. During that time still earning ADs, even if its a long term investment pay off, so I can purchase the things I would have otherwise gotten from content I don't enjoy. I would much prefer to be able to purchase the marks for the weapons off of the AH, and reward another player for their hard work and effort, but alas that is not an option.
I have no problem with SVA, I enjoyed it when I ran it, but like all raids and dungeons, there is only so much of it I can take at once. Because of that it would probably take me a year to get the new weapons without the key change anyways, because it would take me that long to do it a few hundred times which it appears is what it takes. By that time new and better weapons will be out (meaning why even bother to work for these anyways?), hopefully with a lot less grind to get. For that reason alone there is no reason for me to get LDKs for them, and even if no better weapons were ever going to come out, there are cheaper/easier/better 'cost effective vs time spent doing something I don't enjoy ratio typa tasks' that far outvalue LDKs. Maybe, just maybe I might buy a few for the chests you need to do SoMI dailies to open. I guess what it would boil down to is, are the 15 minutes it takes to get them done worth 25k AD to me? The answer to which would be influenced by a number of different factors, probably mostly my mood and willingness to drag myself through those 15 minutes.
I've been playing for a while, and right now there isn't much for me to do. I avoid content I don't enjoy and some of the older content I still enjoy I can do blind, so its not as much fun anymore. I love pvp, I think it is the true endgame content, just... not here in Neverwinter. It needs a lot of love, and I am eagerly looking forward to whats coming in hopefully the near future. I'm kind of a one toon person, so building up a new class beyond 2k doesn't really interest me. So what should I do while waiting for the new mod and sporadically engaging in most recent and older content? I could work on earning more ADs, but I've got several million burning a hole in my wallet (same again if I liquidated assets) yearning to be spent on something. It'd be really nice if I could spend it on those marks for the weapons, or even the armor from FBI for my class. Not much else to spend it on at the moment. Ironically, if I could buy the marks on the AH, it'd actually serve to get me more interested in trying to farm SVA, because it would mean one lucky run could save me a bunch of ADs.
Sorry, I meant this to be shorter, so I will wrap it up. Let me just say lastly that, it was a mistake to make some of the really great drops and items you get from chests that were previously always unbound, now occasionally bind on pickup. I've already got my Orcus shard. The idea that I could run CN and possibly get another one that is bound discourages me from even wanting to set foot in that dungeon. Or worse, the person who both needs an Orcus shard themselves, but also plans to farm for more of them to sell on the AH. Imagine the dilemma when they finally get an unbound one. Knowing my luck I'd hang onto it for a while and try to do some more CN to see if I got another, finally decide to keep it, and then get a bound one on my next run. (and actually that might as well be what happened to me, because I broke down and bought one off the AH and then got a shard to drop on the next run of CN) Honestly, increasing drop rates on chests and then giving a chance for some of them to be bound is a case of taking steps forward and then steps back. The question of how many forward and how many back only you can say because you know the drop chance increase and the chance of that item being bound, and we do not. So for me, because there isn't much I need or want from chests or drops for myself, but rather would sell them, I would probably only run the content that I wanted to and enjoyed, as opposed to doing it with AD profit considerations. And for people who also don't really need anything from a specific drop pool, but are farming dungeons to sell stuff, using their zen to buy LDKs for dungeons would not be as profitable as using the zen in other ways. Not to mention how much less time it would take.
Anyways, I hope this was useful.
PS as an after thought, regarding stuff for me to do in game, anyone have some decent foundry suggestions? Please, nothing that takes more than an hour, hour and a half :)
Comments
You want me to sell them to buy gold to buy keys that will give me nothing ?
Let's say i do everyday sharandar, in a month i have 30 X 50k ( during x2 event).
It means 1 500 000 rp !
Lets say i buy a key everyday instead, what will i get from 30 keys, if im lucky a compagnon or green artifact i absolutely dont need and theirs value drop everyday...
My only drop in 2 dozens of extra keys used gave an 250k artifact not to mention free vip keys...
The math is easy here, in the long run.
By now everyone with a few months of playing on ps4 should have most of the artifacts they want and just need to upgrade them.
You just need the rp... I had some keys before update like around 25 keys, all i got from using them was a 250k worth artifact and its price keeps going down...
Why the 2 dunjeons with the chance at bests rewards ( rings and wand) are easier to make than epics dunjeons that require my gold ?
Im not rushing anything... I m stucked to 2900 gs until march...
Last x2 refinement was december if im right...
December to march for the next x2 event.
When is the next x2 ad too(not even scheduled at all) ?
We use to have more of these events you remenber ?
Dont you see the patern here ?
They keep slowing you down... They keep adding every means to prevent you from acquire or upgrading your stuff unless you pay...
There is a decent limit of the amount of money you should put in a free game...
I spend 150e since the game was launched on ps4...
Not a single euro will go out of my pocket for these con artists, i just have 3 months vip and then bye bye ( no pun intended ).
Maybe even before with Mass effects coming soon.
At some point Ctyptic need to show us some love instead being greedy and always more greedy.
Player's wanted better drop rates and they got them, consequently value of various items have gone down because there are more available. You can't have higher drop rates and high value for the most part.
New content not even a full week old that has relic weapons that require RP's just like artifact weapons, wouldn't make much sense to have another x2 refinement so soon when not many players have had a good enough chance to get everything they need to even restore, let alone upgrade them. It also gives the players who want a chance to be "first" to spend money and or AD to get it done. Players don't have to wait until x2 refinement (crowding their bags, bank, etc.), it's not like the items are locked until x2 refinement, players have to weigh their options and go with what works for them.
Again if speed bumps are not put in without a cost(s) players will rush the new content then complain that there isn't content when there is PLENTY of things to do and they choose not to. Declined content is STILL content.
NO player is forced to play this game or to spend ANY money, it can be done solely from in-game effort, what it is is that players see others at higher and higher ilvls, having various items, enchants, etc. then wanting the same things and or wanting to progress faster putting pressure on themselves to do so. That's like going to a store spending money then complaining that you spent money on something you wanted rather than needed. You can't fault Cryptic because players want to be great and do what they do to achieve it (spend money, etc.). Cryptic has shown PLENTY of love already by providing players a FREE-to-pay game... if nothing else they have done that.
People have a few options in regard to Neverwinter:
- Don't play.
- Put in in-game effort to progress.
- Put in more in-game effort to progress faster.
- Pay some here and there to progress even faster.
- Pay frequently to progress even faster than that.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
My bad then...
You probably are a pc player... You remenber we only got NWO on PS4 a few months ago ?
To be concerned by the new relics upgrading would mean that we already upgraded everything else and have only new relics to work on...
This is so far away from our reality on PS4 my friend... Many players still strugle to get twisted set...
So maybe for you the x2 makes no sense but what about us on PS4 ?!
Do you really think that it's possible for free to get your artifacts, runes, enchants maxed in 3 or 4 months ?
Or only get a decent GS to be accepted by partys who want to run tings very fast?
And then not giving us a x2 refinement for 3 months is a good move?
Sure i can put all these refinements in my artifacts now and it will be a pure waste...
I should record chat just for a minute on PS4 so you can understand what's happening...
It's only : " need hight dps for 12min run CN" "Need tank" "Need DC"
If you don't fit in any of these you can just wait hours in queue that will lead to a party with a 2300 tank that will not wistand Orcus...
God i have to kill him myself alone or with other dps class as a warlock most of the few time i manage to get to the boss...
(please don't go with alliance, most of them left the game with all this bs)
What do you mean by efforts ?
I do sharandar/outerdark/dunjeons/skirmish everyday and now icewindale.
What do you want more ?
Im amazed by how you flip the reality and totally ignore what is obvious...
Our discussion is pointlesd tbh... Your consider us players doing shiit and Cryptic handling everything like it should be.
Maybe these 24 pages are just kiddies that need to grow up or grow a brain after all...
Or maybe we just know when things goes too far and dont like to be treated like cash cows...
Our money and time invested respected instead to have always more walls to make us pay more.
I Agree with you 100% we need those 2x Refining weekends ...
(plus get a mount with Wanderer's fortune and some Dragon Hoard enchants, it helps a lot)
I enjoyed the first hours playing and back at the time i thought : Free games dont exist so i'm gona buy a mount just no to stay behind my guild farming particules as i always arrived after them and didnt get the particules xD
Plus when i like a game even free, i buy to support.
Even when i could download "free"games on pc , i bought the game in the end just to support devs.
It should be that way, you enjoy the content, you naturally support the devs.
With cryptic it's the opposite, you dont spend because you enjoy the game but just to jump other these damn walls...
something similar hapened with Destiny, a great game design but soon with the sucess they became greedy and killed their game and in the process they lost 80% of players...
Making maximum people pay for a small fee is reasonable... Making it so pricy that only a small amount of players can offord it is a pure non-sense.
If the keys are taken on every chest, for loot I may or may not want, I will not buy the keys unless they are 5 for 100 zen which is approximately the same AD cost as epic keys from the wondrous bazaar.
Even at that price they are not worth the loot in the underdark skirmishes so that content is dead to me unless we can get the timers down a bit on the campaign keys.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
Incorrect. The Twisted set is no longer "top tier", I don't even have a twisted set. Instead of fighting to get into MDemo runs back then I was running Dragonflight, questing and ranking up my gear, artifacts and the Guild I am in. The new relics would allow players who don't yet have BiS weapons to skip going for those and make progress towards a set that is more powerful at rank 1 than rank 45 artifact weapons.
Yes (though I have my Artifacts and belt Legendary, everything else is Epic). Are you not in a Guild/Alliance? Being in a Guild and or a Guild within an Alliance alleviates waiting longer periods of time to queue for a dungeon(s). Playing by yourself pretty much substantially increases the time it takes to progress within this game. Making friends and helping each other goes a long way, can clear daily quests in a zone in less than half the time, make your own dungeon groups, share resources, etc. The players that supposedly left pretty much were not cut out for this game, pretty much all they wanted to do was run dungeons (not that there's anything wrong with that) and not put in the effort to keep it going after the key change. There are still tons of players to replace them.
"Efforts" meaning pretty much anything that you are currently not doing that will help you progress faster than you are now. I have posted a number of examples in previous posts...
How do you think free-to-play games stay alive? By giving the players the "selfish" things/changes they want without the option of getting something in return? Ok, let's say Cryptic lowers the requirements to craft keys, the players would be getting what they want, what would Cryptic get, more happy F2P players that "might" spend some money but more than likely won't because they are getting more from the same/less effort than before, where's the trade off?
Players again and again loom that players will spend money if XYZ happens but it isn't guaranteed and in doing business guarantees are what get a lot of attention. All the players that complain(ed) that if keys didn't cost as much more people would buy them will "soon" have the opportunity to have their statements tested when LDK's go down to 250 Zen. If the number of keys bought with real money doesn't go up by a considerable amount then what? Should Cryptic turn a blind eye towards such claims in the future? There are pretty much FAR more F2P's than those that spend money and a number of those F2P players complain all over the forums about a game they themselves are not supporting, the changes they want being ones that will further them being F2P players, not ones that benefit both the players and the developers/publishers. Again, there is NOTHING in the Zen market that is REQUIRED to progress in this game. Anybody willing to bet on this? If a player's only option to get something was to spend real money then that may be true though if those player's can get it some other way(s) then the amount doesn't matter/matters less.
Again, a lot of players feel that 300 Zen is too much for 5 LDK's (it really isn't if you invest in the game effectively). VIP will pay for itself over time and there are great drops to be gotten from epic chests (Thayan Book of the Dead last night, 500k), if players don't want to buy keys then they don't have to, they will just be opting out of an additional chance at something good which is what the dungeon chests essentially are.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Cryptic are perfect, everything is free and easy to get without throwing our life in the game...
And if you play on PS4 and dont see what's hapening there is no reason to keep talking at all...
You hold the truth and like you said we are just selfish for wanting something in return for our money or time.
I see it as put in the effort required to get the desired result(s), you see it as you are being forced to pay real money in a game that you can earn the same currency in-game with effort.
Just because I don't agree with all of your statements and you all of mine doesn't mean we are not effectively communicating our points of view.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
You keep saying that you can afford everything without money...
You keep saying that but in fact, you never really say how to to achieve that.
Someone quote earlier if i'm right you too before with a "such as ?" (meaning how ? )
You want to be honest ?
List us in details how to achieve the same result without paying anything.
The same things that took years on pc..
By that i mean:
- acquire the artifacts feeders or not.
- acquire the goods enchants ( negation/dread /vorpal ect not the useless ones )
- the bondings runes
- all the enchants
- all the insigna
- the legion of marks needed to refine
- the gigantic amount of rp needed to refine artifacts, runes, enchants.
- the goods pets
- the goods mounts
- ect ect. Because i'm sure forgeting other stuff to do.
When you'll prove me that there is an easy way to afford all that in 5 or 6 months with a life ( i mean 8 hours work + transport + wife/kids + house works + friends).
Then i'll eat my hat.
Otherwise what you are stating make zero sense at all.
Because even then, you said that if it's too easy to get stuff by being selfish, it kills the f2p...
But at the same time, you're telling us you can achieve everything with just " play the game".
So which one it is ?
Because if the second statement is right, why pay anything at all to cryptic ?
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
@sundance777
I am sure plenty of people feel that way.
I am happy with my guild. Before this last key change i finally got back the people who left .
This change is kinda messing that up.
In the end we are all still here. Aren't we.
Playing and writting in order to change dev minds, since we like NW and the people we met on this game.
My guild , i love it.
People in it are like my second family. I do not wish to leave them. And i do not wish for them to leave the guild.
So what i said. I stand by it. If the ship sinks i am going with it .
-36k AD on main character (however a player see fit) + 16k on 3 additional characters (bought with AD after the first week) is about 84k AD daily (could squeeze in a few more but will go with 4 for the sake of this example)
- about 588k in a week
- about 2.35kk in a month (28 days)
By the end the initial month it would be about 3.07kk AD/month from running a main character (quests, etc.) and 3 other characters
- 1-2.5 hours a day Monday-Thursday
- 4+ hours Friday-Sunday
- 8 hrs of sleep, 8 hrs of work (Monday-Thursday)
- 5+ hours a day for family, friends, etc.
Here's a rough breakdown of what could be bought/acquired/gained over the first 6 months of Neverwinter's release with the above strategy and not spending a dime:
- About 1.190kk/month AD in sales from the enchanted key opened lockboxes with VIP.
- About 1.4kk/month in AD sales from professions on one character (1/3 nothing, 1/3 at least 50k, 1/3 100k, all underestimated), 2.9kk on 2 characters (not calculated in), 4.3kk on 3 characters (not calculated in)
- x4 additional character slots (after the first week)
- VIP for over 12 months from AD conversion (the first month being covered after about 2 weeks)
- 3k+ ilvl on main character
-3 Epic Zen market mounts
- 2 event epic mounts
- Multiple Runic bags
- Multiple Bank/Shared Bank expnaions
- x3 Bonding runestones from event or bought and ranked up to 10+
- Utility enchantments bought/ranked up to 12
- Offense and defense enchants bought with trade bars (R7) and ranked up to 10+ then BiS enchants bought with AD
- Transcendent Negation (5kk)
- Transcendent Dread (6kk)
- x1000 preservation wards (over estimated)
- x5 Coalescent wards
- 15 Epic insignia's (between 60k and 120k AD each)
- All 4 Archons (2kk AD)
- 5th companion from event
- x2 BiS Artifacts bought
- 1 BiS Artifact as a drop from dungeons
- 1 BiS Class Sigil
- All campaigns at 100% (Storm King's Thunder at 80%)
- Various marks from celestial bag, Dread ring, Sharandar, Wondrous Bazaar and professions
- 2-3+ professions at level 25
- Enough RP from wanderer's fortune + Dragon's hoard + fey blessing + quartermaster to at least get all artifacts, necklace and belt to Legendary, and weapons to Epic.
- An active Guild running Dragonflight on weekends and sometimes during the week
- Guild boons, Guild dungeon runs
I overestimated a number of the costs to compensate for variables like fluctuating AD exchange rate and trade house prices, also didn't calculate in but 1 rare dungeon drop. With the above strategy and the current content arguably it may be "easier" for a brand new player given the Sea of Moving Ice campaigns grants high value items that can be sold and a number of artifacts have dropped in price by over half.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Playing many characters to generate ad and save it..
You are assuming :
-that verybody own 4 characters when most players struggle with 1 and when they do posses others characters it is mostly mules because bags cost an arm in this game...
-that everybody on PS4 where hardcore gamers that began the game from day one knowng exactly how the economy works, on what to invest to maximaze profits.
Avoid all beginners mystakes and even more ... they created new characters from the very beginning to play this strategy...
The reality is that me like many players discovered a free game some weeks after release and even now and they did not jump on wiki and reddit or here to anticipate what to do before playing...
A game is fun when you discover it step by step...
I made a lot of mystakes when i started and discovering things months after release, that's also part of the fun...
You are basically asking of a new player to invest straight away for multiple characters, vip and play the long and boring farming long run while knowing everything about mechanics in advance like this is even just imaginable...
Honestly, this isnt fair to exept that from us, you realize that right ? ...
In fact this strategy is exactly something that an old pc player knowing the future release on PS4 coming, would anticipate and prepare to dominate ah for exemple ( a little zen could really help from the begining )...
I perfectly undestand this strategy and hey, why not if you have the time and patience ( lets call it this way to not be rude ^^)
Believe me, most of us humans we just can't...
It's absolutely not a pattern that the "casual" players can follow.
It's almost like practicing the game as dayly ritual, a routine implanted in your life...
Play kinda dayly ok, but not like this...
Just my opinion, everyone enjoy theirs game like they want , i respect that.
But i really think you should reconize that this is absolutely not viable for most of players and too late anyway...
That said i really apreciate that you took the time to explain, maybe it will help others interested in the game.
What I did not include (at first) was that the additional characters are covered by the AD gained from the first week and soon after VIP is covered as well, you seemingly overlooked the three sets of numbers I first posted. Taking those numbers and calculating the amounts and comparing it to the Zen prices would have shown that the Zen items I listed as gotten are well within the AD gained from running those characters.
The underlying agenda behind that post is to show people that this game requires considerable amounts of effort to achieve the sizeable progress a number of people expect to be able achieve with "minimal" effort. The items sold on the AH are items produced by professions and are ones that players purchase everyday, you don't have to know what's going on on PC to discover PS4 market trends and or what sells for higher amounts, etc., you just have to look and pay attention.
My definition of "casual" and or "fun" may differ from that of people here which is fine. Going by my example using 4 characters it would take about 6 months, it's safe to assume that running 2 characters would take 12 months, 1 character, 2 years, so you are in part correct about players on PC taking years to achieve a comparable amount though the information shows that utilizing even 2 characters will significantly reduce the overall time. Of course that may require longer play sessions and or number of days of the week played but it's doable which is also part of my point. Buying LDK's running 2 character is quite doable even with the 2nd character pretty much only doing dungeons, add on a lucrative profession or run 1 character and a lucrative profession and a "casual" player (one that doesn't play daily) could buy more LDK's than they could pretty much ever use.
Pretty much any course of play is viable if a player is willing to put in the effort whether it is 1, 2 or more characters.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
But think a lot people will find this article very interesting about what's going on around the world about lockboxes and gamble in video game.
http://massivelyop.com/2017/01/17/__trashed-3/
Looks like it would be a good thing for devs of every game with lockboxes to really anticipate new laws concerning this bizness model.
I consider lockboxes that need enchanted keys "good gambling" because of the generally good value stuff in it but the extra chest seems to fall in " bad gambling " category ^^'
Plus i don't buy keys at all exept when i have a voucher for an enchanted key ^^
What i meant by good value is for exemple yesterday i got a "frozen companion box" and with a coupon an hour later, an other frozen compagnion box.
Theirs prices is 44000k, i put them on ah for 39999k and they were sold in seconds
So with the fees, i got 75k, one key was "free vip" the other with the voucher 75zen.
So overall it is ok for me
To be honest, i sell everything i get from enchanted chests because i never had any luck and sometime Cryptic is just puking on us with whats there is inside...
For exemple i opened many "Evil treasure box" and all i ever got from it was a hamster transmute that worth 15 da... 15da...
Stuff like that in an enchanted chest is an insult to the player who will open it.
There is more garbage like ostrian relics or crapp like that but still i believe if you are not a gambler and sell evrything, it's valuable.
The giant boxs gave me a lot of epics marks, jewels for refinement, ect that i could sell too but keep for my use.
On the other side, epics extra chests will give you pure <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> 90% of time.
So i prefer "decent stuff i can sell everyday" than pure garbage most likely binded in extra chests dunjeons.
IIt's not a secret i just hate Cryptic for their greedy politic but VIP is the best value imo in all that bs f2p system.
( why i'm still here ? Because i love D&D and the game still have fun components )
this allows players to strive to 100% complete zones (or buy the zone completion packs which im sure yall dont mind) and also rewards those players who do so.
Seems legit.
This would be laughable if it wasn't so sad. We're now a week into the key change and while I could say that there is a slight net benefit for middle tier players (those who are still building up their toons and who hover in the 2.5-3k ), my overall status is, not impressed. here are my impressions
- I start with the positive, getting the artifacts you actually want for your build is now within the reach of the aforementioned class of players and that gives them something of a new goal and a realistic possibility of achieving it. Kitting out my tank with Seldarine gear was nigh on impossible before this change.
- Dungeon runs at tier 1 feel a bit more profitable as a result,which in turn frees time to run other content. Nowhere near profitable enough to free up the time, but enough that I prefer going into Lostmauth rather than the nth visit to cloak tower.
- That said, the loot from the extra chest is still very lacklustre, and the poor drops are the norm rather than the exception. RNG is still RNG after all, but while I appreciate that regular chests have a chance to drop special loot (don't change that), you won't convince everyone to invest neither time nor money into the special keys.
- The key change also completely killed all motivation for running the SVA and getting the relic gear. I for one will stick to my twisted guns and hold out hope against all hope that whatever comes with mod 11 is both worthy and fun to obtain. The grind is so bad in mod 10 and 10.5 that I actually am developing stockholm syndrome for the "good old days" of farming motes. What I said about the tier 1 dungeons doesn't apply to SVA due to the absurdly random chance based nature of the refining process, and it gives me very little to look forward to in the end game aside from a repetitiveness designed to disguise a lack of actual content. In other words, this change still shafts the top players.
- Binding stuff on account is ludricous and takes away the joy of getting something. We won't want very single new piece of curio that drops, but the person next to me might want it. even as a ploy to trick me into buying more companion slots, it fails.
- The ability of players to obtain their coveted artifacts creates a new void when it comes for new shinies to strive for. New artifact sets are needed to keep our eyes on the prize and keep running your skinner box. The new sets of gear that have been dropping are very much a mixed bag that do not scratch that itch at all.
If these impressions largely resemble the negative feedback we were giving before the change, it's a sign that the fears of the community were largely justified and even the net positives were poorly communicated (how much flak would have been avoided had you guys simply stated "don't worry, we increased the drops for non bound rare items in the regular chests as well and the legendary keys simply souble your chances"? would not solve the woes of those farming relic gear, but it would probably calm those running the remaining dungeons) or implementend in a somewhat haphazard way.
I'm pretty sure over time the value of what you did get (and hopefully sold) has met or exceeded the value of those "good" items. One time before I bought 40 enchanted keys and more than doubled the AD from that purchase... Pretty selling whatever (or using) is a good move to make because at least you get something, when you open whatever comes out you are taking the "double or nothing" route. Hmph, I don't know what you see but trade house prices have dropped by over half on a lot of things so "90%" is quite exaggerated, you can't compare your drops to everyone else's and still say it's "bad", a lot of somebody's are getting something which means something good is going on overall. Again, looming "players will pay for it" does not bode well. On one hand you got players getting something tangible immediately with having to put in less effort to achieve this or that and on the other end you got Cryptic hoping that the vast amount of players that already don't want to spend money on the game will buy 4k Zen campaign completions... that's not remotely an even trade-off. Players already have incentive to "100%" a campaign, boons, vouchers and keys with the latter two also being incentive to return to them.
What is "out of balance" is what players are doing in-game. What I mean by that is the end game zones all have something to gain from them (resources for keys, vouchers, etc.), a player's time is limited so what they actually want to do is as well and a number of players are choosing to do whatever it is they want to do then seemingly complaining that they weren't able to do this or that as well. Players are seemingly flocking to the new zone (Sea of Moving Ice), spending a lot of time there and not seeing the effect on what else they are trying to accomplish (in other words players are spreading themselves thin). The new content isn't going to disappear... Whatever amount(s) of time a player spends doing this or that DIRECTLY effects other tasks. I don't mind it taking 2-3 sessions to complete "everything" (daily/weekly quests, etc.), it takes the pressure off. I used to run multiple zones on a daily basis and even though I could handle it quite there was this pressure to keep it up. Soon as I stopped trying to do it all daily not only did it go away but as weird as it may seem, it allowed me to accomplish even more overall.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Are we all brainless to you :* ?
In so many words where have I stated that I don't see a problem and or there isn't a problem with the key change? Even if one time I'm pretty sure you can see/have seen the other posts where I have stated what players can do make the change work more in their favor, have I not? Instead of not playing this game I'm suggesting players do things in-game to help alleviate the results of the key change, if they don't want to that is their choice but there ARE things players can do to get around it without spending money, it just takes effort (a little here and there is better than not at all while just complaining).
A number of players don't want to put in any more effort than they currently had been and the results of not doing so is their progressed is slowed plain and simple. With the amount of content the same amount of effort as before isn't going to cut it. The players that have more limited time may want to prioritize/rotate what they do during their play sessions (it's ust a suggestion). Do I want everyone to run multiple characters, no, do I want them to increase their AD potential to help fund the things they want to do, yes.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
I think if you got 20 keys for 250 zen all this would go away and you'd still be making bank.
and teh cost of the keys in zen isn't worth what you will get back out of the average key. so it's not really worth it.
people who spend real money are gonna spend if its easier to make the keys or not because they aren't the types to be bothered with any kind of grind.
If they wanted to see a lot of actual cash money they'd need to make it a good deal. 50 keys for five bucks off the zen market in game but in the actual store where you must pay money. I might go for that. I bet a lot of people would. there is some value for your five bucks there. enough dungeons to actually make a difference.
but 5 bucks for ten keys. no way. absolutely no way.
realistically, it will make zero bottom line difference for them if they make it faster to make the keys or not.
this is a dungeons and dragons game. the core of this game is dungeons and dragons. those things should be free to play. not gated. there should be no discussion of oh then they won't make a buck off us. bucks should be gained in other ways that are not strong arming if they want to maintain their player base and the good will of the player base.
Go back and look, a number of people are complaining that the keys are too expensive and aren't worth the cost (money or AD) even though they clearly and simply offer a chance at better loot, not some static value that must be reimbursed every time one is used. As a result of those complaints I offered them solutions on how to get the LDK's without spending money and how to increase their AD gains... If players could bring in 100's of thousands of AD a day this would arguably increase their incentive to get them (people with more tend to spend more).
As someone stated "What about shortening the timers for making campaign keys to 2 hours and removing the gold cost? That seems like a better idea." I replied in so many words that there aren't enough daily quests to even be able to utilize that suggestion for any campaign other than Underdark and it's crafted Greater Demonic Key thus players seemingly want to farm Demonic Encounters to pretty much completely circumvent the incentive to obtain the Zen market LDK's (through money or AD conversion) with MINIMAL effort through farming Demonic Encounters. How hard is to hit a few demons and stand around until the encounter is finished by other players? I'm pretty sure people see it quite often and it's pretty much one of the reasons players tend to skip Demonic Escape overall (they can't hit a few, stand around and be rewarded). Do you or anyone else really feel that this type of game play should be rewarded at an increased rate? Oh really? How it is now do you think there is more or less incentive to obtain LDK's than if players could simply farm demonic encounters and craft Greater Demonic Keys themselves 10x as fast? For players that seemingly don't want to support the game financially and want things the easy way all the way around (skim through the pages and read the posts) a change like that will decrease the chances of them spending even further. Dungeons are F2P, just not free to farm the chests, there's a difference. Players can run as many dungeons as they want but the number of chests they can open depends on the effort they are putting into the game and or the amount of money they are willing to spend.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
zen is a made up currency. it's not real. they feed zen into the market. I've seen it happen. people do not have to buy zen for there to be zen.
furthermore, pw gets nothing once the zen is bought. when we do trades when we convert our ad to zen.. that equals no new revenue for pw. people would have to be buying the zen for the purchase of these keys in order for it to translate over to them making a profit off this. you'd have to be saying. "Oh, that's value. I'd shell out real money for that convenience. " and the appropriate thing to go after that phrase is (said no one ever)
the things that people will shell out real money for are vanity items and things that have value for the player. no one is going to spend cash money for this set of keys. it's a 5 dollar min. so ten keys for five bucks. When odds are still a plus one for the effort?
no.. people aren't doing it that way. they're farming and converting their ad to zen to buy keys rather than pay for them. (if they decide the keys are the best value for their ad. which for the most part they probably won't.) they'll probably do something else when they run out of keys. that's going to translate into a much smaller dungeon playing pool... which is going to translate into a much smaller player base over all
making it a shorter timer/lessening resources to make keys is a way to keep good will with the player base. if they want money they should offer a 50 pack for five bucks that you cannot buy with zen outside of the ingame store. that has value for the money. and would definitely compete even with people who don't mind farming.
I enjoyed exploring the new zones, facing new enemies, and experiencing a new story, but I don't like the new zones, purely and simply because I don't like spending 15 minutes traveling to and from the places I need to get to to complete the things that take 10 seconds, or spend 15 minutes searching for a thing or a specific type of mob that takes 3 seconds to kill. And I especially hate having to do things I don't enjoy or are mindless over and over and over again for an extended period of time like fishing, I have little patience for it. Don't get me wrong, SoMI Day 1 I was out there with everyone else fishing my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off and seeking out treasures, got tired of it quickly, but did it for a couple weeks for the weapons.
Then I discovered the situation with the marks (and I do kind of feel like it was a GOTCHA! move, considering drop rate and how many marks they need to reach legendary compared to previous arti weapon mark requirements) from SVA and realized I'd have to be doing the same stuff I am growing to hate 6 months from now and got extremely discouraged. I'd much rather engage in the areas of the game that I enjoy, spontaneously engage in raids and dungeons, help friends or guildies out, enagage in events, or do something or see something in game I haven't done in a while. During that time still earning ADs, even if its a long term investment pay off, so I can purchase the things I would have otherwise gotten from content I don't enjoy. I would much prefer to be able to purchase the marks for the weapons off of the AH, and reward another player for their hard work and effort, but alas that is not an option.
I have no problem with SVA, I enjoyed it when I ran it, but like all raids and dungeons, there is only so much of it I can take at once. Because of that it would probably take me a year to get the new weapons without the key change anyways, because it would take me that long to do it a few hundred times which it appears is what it takes. By that time new and better weapons will be out (meaning why even bother to work for these anyways?), hopefully with a lot less grind to get. For that reason alone there is no reason for me to get LDKs for them, and even if no better weapons were ever going to come out, there are cheaper/easier/better 'cost effective vs time spent doing something I don't enjoy ratio typa tasks' that far outvalue LDKs. Maybe, just maybe I might buy a few for the chests you need to do SoMI dailies to open. I guess what it would boil down to is, are the 15 minutes it takes to get them done worth 25k AD to me? The answer to which would be influenced by a number of different factors, probably mostly my mood and willingness to drag myself through those 15 minutes.
I've been playing for a while, and right now there isn't much for me to do. I avoid content I don't enjoy and some of the older content I still enjoy I can do blind, so its not as much fun anymore. I love pvp, I think it is the true endgame content, just... not here in Neverwinter. It needs a lot of love, and I am eagerly looking forward to whats coming in hopefully the near future. I'm kind of a one toon person, so building up a new class beyond 2k doesn't really interest me. So what should I do while waiting for the new mod and sporadically engaging in most recent and older content? I could work on earning more ADs, but I've got several million burning a hole in my wallet (same again if I liquidated assets) yearning to be spent on something. It'd be really nice if I could spend it on those marks for the weapons, or even the armor from FBI for my class. Not much else to spend it on at the moment. Ironically, if I could buy the marks on the AH, it'd actually serve to get me more interested in trying to farm SVA, because it would mean one lucky run could save me a bunch of ADs.
Sorry, I meant this to be shorter, so I will wrap it up. Let me just say lastly that, it was a mistake to make some of the really great drops and items you get from chests that were previously always unbound, now occasionally bind on pickup. I've already got my Orcus shard. The idea that I could run CN and possibly get another one that is bound discourages me from even wanting to set foot in that dungeon. Or worse, the person who both needs an Orcus shard themselves, but also plans to farm for more of them to sell on the AH. Imagine the dilemma when they finally get an unbound one. Knowing my luck I'd hang onto it for a while and try to do some more CN to see if I got another, finally decide to keep it, and then get a bound one on my next run. (and actually that might as well be what happened to me, because I broke down and bought one off the AH and then got a shard to drop on the next run of CN) Honestly, increasing drop rates on chests and then giving a chance for some of them to be bound is a case of taking steps forward and then steps back. The question of how many forward and how many back only you can say because you know the drop chance increase and the chance of that item being bound, and we do not. So for me, because there isn't much I need or want from chests or drops for myself, but rather would sell them, I would probably only run the content that I wanted to and enjoyed, as opposed to doing it with AD profit considerations. And for people who also don't really need anything from a specific drop pool, but are farming dungeons to sell stuff, using their zen to buy LDKs for dungeons would not be as profitable as using the zen in other ways. Not to mention how much less time it would take.
Anyways, I hope this was useful.
PS as an after thought, regarding stuff for me to do in game, anyone have some decent foundry suggestions? Please, nothing that takes more than an hour, hour and a half :)