They can do it because they know how to play the game (they are veterans), they have played as a team for some time (i'm fairly certain of this), and they understand the the mechanics.
So tell me are the sets really broken???
Is the problem with them being able to do this located elsewhere???
What exactly is nerfing the MOD 5 sets solving???
The sets make face rolling the content so easy it can be done in pugs. Yesterday I was lucky enough to do a tiamat pug where it ended in phase 1. And in a eToS pug that finished in a fraction of the normal time. Most of the time the set owners run in a closely knit group benefiting only those few people. They make so much AD that there were probably the only people not to cry when the invoke AD was nerfed.
When you critics run new content for hours on teamspeak perfecting the mechanics and coordination required to pull off the efficiency that you see demonstrated by @thefabricant and his team, then come back and make comments. These guys not only learn the most effecient ways to run this content, they also share that knowlege with the community, while also pointing out the bugs. They prove where the bugs/exploits/OP power combos are, and then surprisingly share that information. Then on top of it, prove that they can almost (within a few mins runtime) do the same thing with what those that can't call "legit". Human nature is a strange thing to watch sometimes.
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
When you critics run new content for hours on teamspeak perfecting the mechanics and coordination required to pull off the efficiency that you see demonstrated by @thefabricant and his team, then come back and make comments. These guys not only learn the most effecient ways to run this content, they also share that knowlege with the community, while also pointing out the bugs. They prove where the bugs/exploits/OP power combos are, and then surprisingly share that information. Then on top of it, prove that they can almost (within a few mins runtime) do the same thing with what those that can't call "legit". Human nature is a strange thing to watch sometimes.
i never said they are not in teamspeak. i know that. i am asking for more accurate information a run with a paladin and a great weapon fighter at the place of the gf and the warlock. CAN all classes achieve under 20 minutes? OR we are forced to get a gf offensive stats and a sw to do as fast we can?
They can do it because they know how to play the game (they are veterans), they have played as a team for some time (i'm fairly certain of this), and they understand the the mechanics.
So tell me are the sets really broken???
Is the problem with them being able to do this located elsewhere???
What exactly is nerfing the MOD 5 sets solving???
The sets make face rolling the content so easy it can be done in pugs. Yesterday I was lucky enough to do a tiamat pug where it ended in phase 1. And in a eToS pug that finished in a fraction of the normal time. Most of the time the set owners run in a closely knit group benefiting only those few people. They make so much AD that there were probably the only people not to cry when the invoke AD was nerfed.
Lol...I would like to make millions of AD purely from owning the sets. I don't make that much purely from owning the sets, so please stop spreading false information.
They can do it because they know how to play the game (they are veterans), they have played as a team for some time (i'm fairly certain of this), and they understand the the mechanics.
So tell me are the sets really broken???
Is the problem with them being able to do this located elsewhere???
What exactly is nerfing the MOD 5 sets solving???
The sets make face rolling the content so easy it can be done in pugs. Yesterday I was lucky enough to do a tiamat pug where it ended in phase 1. And in a eToS pug that finished in a fraction of the normal time. Most of the time the set owners run in a closely knit group benefiting only those few people. They make so much AD that there were probably the only people not to cry when the invoke AD was nerfed.
Lol...I would like to make millions of AD purely from owning the sets. I don't make that much purely from owning the sets, so please stop spreading false information.
So you don't benefit from being able to speed run all content all day long? I only pug and since mod 6, I can count the number of times, with the fingers on one hand, that I was able to get the benefits of these speed runs on steroids.
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited October 2016
BACK to sets subject. I Read an invalid information after the announcment . How a debuff 30% on high vizier is 6% dps boost when: IF you attack your enemy only with that debuff applied the combat log clear shows you that your damage outside( ) increased by 30% comparing it to damage in ()?
[Combat (Self)] Your Magic Missile deals 1692 (1254) Arcane Damage to Target Dummy.
this is after double ray of effeblement. debuff value is 35%. my damage increased by 35% 1254+35%= 1692.
Try it and report back. Perfect the run with your comp and see how well you can do. There will probably always be a perfect comp, however player synergy as well as class synergy probably has a lot to do with effecient runs.
0
hypergorila2Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 73Arc User
edited October 2016
These sets are not OP by far.... They help a little bit yes, but not that much, certainly not enough to justify paying what some ppl payed for them. I have a righteous DC build for full buff and debuff support and use HP set. From time to time I just random queue for dungeons and skirmishes and most of the times the teams I get, even with all the buffs and debuffs I throw, just take forever to kill something... So it's not the sets or gear that make the player imho. It helps yes, but gear alone does not do miracles. Don't expect that having these sets on a team will make the run go smooth and fast....
They can do it because they know how to play the game (they are veterans), they have played as a team for some time (i'm fairly certain of this), and they understand the the mechanics.
So tell me are the sets really broken???
Is the problem with them being able to do this located elsewhere???
What exactly is nerfing the MOD 5 sets solving???
The sets make face rolling the content so easy it can be done in pugs. Yesterday I was lucky enough to do a tiamat pug where it ended in phase 1. And in a eToS pug that finished in a fraction of the normal time. Most of the time the set owners run in a closely knit group benefiting only those few people. They make so much AD that there were probably the only people not to cry when the invoke AD was nerfed.
Lol...I would like to make millions of AD purely from owning the sets. I don't make that much purely from owning the sets, so please stop spreading false information.
So you don't benefit from being able to speed run all content all day long? I only pug and since mod 6, I can count the number of times, with the fingers on one hand, that I was able to get the benefits of these speed runs on steroids.
The point is, I can speedrun content with and without the sets. 17:05 mins vs 16:37 mins seems rather insignificant, or are you claiming its a major, game breaking difference?
The point is, I can speedrun content with and without the sets. 17:05 mins vs 16:37 mins seems rather insignificant, or are you claiming its a major, game breaking difference?
You do it with your BIS SEAL Team 6. Few can reproduce your results. With the HP set, you just need one BIS or triple perfect bonding DPS and one semi competent tank. Not a very high bar these days.
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
lukejones77Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
As someone who owns two of the faulty sets (HP and HV), I see this as a very positive change and fully agree with all your points. However, I do hope this isn't an isolated incident and that it merely means it's the very first step of addressing the very old and long standing issue that buffs and debuffs stacking is. As you said the game is more about being invulnerable (thank you, anointed army, thank you, fighter's recovery + steel defence) while stacking silly amounts of buffs and debuffs to trivialize the content and ignore the mechanics entirely. .
This is a content balancing effort, breaking the promise of completing class balancing first. As has been the case for the longest time over many modules, the very popular CW class will now be completely screwed, and (although initially shocked) I now don't blame the guildie that finally, recently gave up and sold his account. With DPS HRs and SWs doing so well from the recent "balance" effort, and GWFs still tearing up eveything, the CW is now completely at it's lowest point of relevance. But wait, there's more! Plenty CWs are finally giving up and looking for relevance in buff/debuff - only to find that their cornerstone weapon, the HV set, is being destroyed.
After all this time of neglect, and CWs desperately looking for relevance in a different area, it managed to become even worse
0
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
The point is, I can speedrun content with and without the sets. 17:05 mins vs 16:37 mins seems rather insignificant, or are you claiming its a major, game breaking difference?
You do it with your BIS SEAL Team 6. Few can reproduce your results. With the HP set, you just need one BIS or triple perfect bonding DPS and one semi competent tank. Not a very high bar these days.
I wasn't referring to FBI, which only a relative few can do, and ever fewer at your level of performance and efficiency. I'm taking about the ease of being able to do epic dungeon runs by more typical players.
I'm having a hard time swallowing this pill not just because set bonuses are going away...
And I'm having a hard time playing my alts to run normal dungeons because veterans love to leave mobs behind. And that's without newbies knowing. What veterans did in those runs are no different than what the devs are doing to veterans - face it, you're all bad and I'm tired of being discriminated from those runs. If the morale of this community didn't get fixed, frankly I don't see why devs want to put an effort to listen whatever HAMSTER in this forums.
From newbies perspective, I see this as justice, no matter what logic and reason you pull out here.
This is a content balancing effort, breaking the promise of completing class balancing first. As has been the case for the longest time over many modules, the very popular CW class will now be completely screwed, and (although initially shocked) I now don't blame the guildie that finally, recently gave up and sold his account. With DPS HRs and SWs doing so well from the recent "balance" effort, and GWFs still tearing up eveything, the CW is now completely at it's lowest point of relevance. But wait, there's more! Plenty CWs are finally giving up and looking for relevance in buff/debuff - only to find that their cornerstone weapon, the HV set, is being destroyed.
After all this time of neglect, and CWs desperately looking for relevance in a different area, it managed to become even worse
What? Most of the debuff value of a fire CW comes from powers and class features. HV was merely icing on the cake. Of course it's nice. But it's not a big deal. Content is already trivial enough thanks to all the cheesing spells and buffs/debuffs we have, it's not like people are going to stop inviting CWs. Whatever the new content is, I can make a prediction: Anointed army, fox shift, immortal tankadins, fighter's recovery+steel defence, commander's strike, and so on, are going to make it extremely trivial, because there's no way to make things difficult when players can self heal infinitely, not take any damage, be control immune, and buffs to absurd levels. So have no worries: no one is going to start caring about what class is invited.
Besides I play with a large variety of players, and the sad fact is that even when I'm going full debuffs on my fire CW, I still do far more damage than most players in this game. It's not just about gear. It's about how you use it.
The point is, I can speedrun content with and without the sets. 17:05 mins vs 16:37 mins seems rather insignificant, or are you claiming its a major, game breaking difference?
You do it with your BIS SEAL Team 6. Few can reproduce your results. With the HP set, you just need one BIS or triple perfect bonding DPS and one semi competent tank. Not a very high bar these days.
Stop trolling, i owned a HP set and it doesnt work as u said. Normal pugging with HP/HV will result in a fail run due to incompetent dps and tank to protect and kill everything before we die. If what u said is true i should have full r12 and legendary mounts in stable but i only have a total of 11 mil+ ad stuff despite playing since the game launched in 2013. It is not we dont want to pug, but pug group sucks. If the group can speed run, it always can, HP/HV just cut down one or at the best two minutes than normal party.
I bet u dont know anything abt buff/debuff calculations but in real situations where team have full r12 bondings and legendary pet, ACDC with full relic gear (lightender) can provide similar bonus as HP set due to 3k+ power more from base stat. Stop saying things you dont know and claim to be true, like sharp said, video or it doesnt happen. Dont say i only know abt the BIS team but dont know what happen at 2k+ il. My DCs ranges from 2k to 3k, and yes i have multiple DCs so i know, and im sure u dont have a DC as a main cuz u talk nonsense.
Stop trolling, i owned a HP set and it doesnt work as u said. Normal pugging with HP/HV will result in a fail run due to incompetent dps and tank to protect and kill everything before we die.
While I did not say it at the beginning, I later did say you need one high-DPS and one decent tank (actually ITF using GF) to do these speed runs. I did not imply that the set alone allows one to get rich by themselves. You elitist folks can be pretty touchy.
If the group can speed run, it always can, HP/HV just cut down one or at the best two minutes than normal party.
I'd say tiamat going down in phase one 1 saves more than a few minutes. As for few epic dungeon runs that I lucky enough to get in, the run times were like night and day. If people can run like this on a regular basis with a regular group, they are a lot richer than me.
There's no reason to complain at all and I don't see you hate every single world record holder in Olympics.
I don't think I've complained about these sets in past. As far as I can recall, I think this post is the first time I said anything about these sets. And it was more of a, "its about time" remark. And that these sets can contribute to amazing things like tiamat going down in phase 1 and Lostmeal going down before my ITF resets. Now I get my head bit off for it.
I'd say tiamat going down in phase one 1 saves more than a few minutes. As for few epic dungeon runs that I lucky enough to get in, the run times were like night and day. If people can run like this on a regular basis with a regular group, they are a lot richer than me.
I finally know what thing u misunderstood. Buffs and debuffs works as multiplier to our final dmg, the better your group the better it is. A full 3k+ premade can do tia like what u describe already without those sets, with the sets it will be one or two minute faster. Erm, just as an example, you know what is multiplier right? Your dps is 100, i increase it by 5% it will be 105, but if your dps is 10000, it will be 10500. Now the point here is you are comparing the 5 and 500 and say 500 more dps is too much, and in big encounter, a slight buff or debuff increases the dmg for other 20 dpser so things become 500*20=10000 extra dps. Things works like this so in the end we will have one to two minute faster than others, providing we have enough skill to play with 50k hp lesser and lower stat. Btw, only 3k-4k group can clear tia in one try, with or without those sets, believe it or not.
BACK to sets subject. I Read an invalid information after the announcment . How a debuff 30% on high vizier is 6% dps boost when: IF you attack your enemy only with that debuff applied the combat log clear shows you that your damage outside( ) increased by 30% comparing it to damage in ()?
[Combat (Self)] Your Magic Missile deals 1692 (1254) Arcane Damage to Target Dummy.
this is after double ray of effeblement. debuff value is 35%. my damage increased by 35% 1254+35%= 1692.
1) They were probably talking about High Prophet, not High Vizier (unless I missed that particular post). 2) High Prophet isn't 6% anyway. 3) The mitigation depends on enemy's damage resistance, so maybe a dummy isn't the best choice to test it. Anyway HV set is 30% if your ArP is capped.
I don't think I've complained about these sets in past. As far as I can recall, I think this post is the first time I said anything about these sets. And it was more of a, "its about time" remark. And that these sets can contribute to amazing things like tiamat going down in phase 1 and Lostmeal going down before my ITF resets. Now I get my head bit off for it.</blockquote>
You sobered up. That's good. That drunken rage doesn't help.
Anyway, it's more buff/debuff than high sets. Got an alliance group run with SW and DC. Group consists of 2.4k ILs(no joke). I'm surprised that eToS run is a breeze from buff/debuff (no high sets) way different from my initial thought from "This will take me an hour" to "Oh wow. That was quick".
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
BACK to sets subject. I Read an invalid information after the announcment . How a debuff 30% on high vizier is 6% dps boost when: IF you attack your enemy only with that debuff applied the combat log clear shows you that your damage outside( ) increased by 30% comparing it to damage in ()?
[Combat (Self)] Your Magic Missile deals 1692 (1254) Arcane Damage to Target Dummy.
this is after double ray of effeblement. debuff value is 35%. my damage increased by 35% 1254+35%= 1692.
1) They were probably talking about High Prophet, not High Vizier (unless I missed that particular post). 2) High Prophet isn't 6% anyway. 3) The mitigation depends on enemy's damage resistance, so maybe a dummy isn't the best choice to test it. Anyway HV set is 30% if your ArP is capped.
ray will do the same debuff on real enemy too under the condition you mentioned armor penetration capped ( isnt that the rule for any class build in pve?). on that character my damage is very bad to make the dummy to lose hp and fail the test.
COMbat log is clear for any debuff ingame when you test 1 by 1. you dont need for this simple test math types.
BACK to sets subject. I Read an invalid information after the announcment . How a debuff 30% on high vizier is 6% dps boost when: IF you attack your enemy only with that debuff applied the combat log clear shows you that your damage outside( ) increased by 30% comparing it to damage in ()?
[Combat (Self)] Your Magic Missile deals 1692 (1254) Arcane Damage to Target Dummy.
this is after double ray of effeblement. debuff value is 35%. my damage increased by 35% 1254+35%= 1692.
1) They were probably talking about High Prophet, not High Vizier (unless I missed that particular post). 2) High Prophet isn't 6% anyway. 3) The mitigation depends on enemy's damage resistance, so maybe a dummy isn't the best choice to test it. Anyway HV set is 30% if your ArP is capped.
ray will do the same debuff on real enemy too under the condition you mentioned armor penetration capped ( isnt that the rule for any class build in pve?). on that character my damage is very bad to make the dummy to lose hp and fail the test.
COMbat log is clear for any debuff ingame when you test 1 by 1. you dont need for this simple test math types.
So, if you go to a dummy and use ray of enfeeblement once, a sellword and a trans plaguefire enchantment, what is the effectiveness?
Whats the effectiveness of each debuff by itself?
Now, do the same test on a dragon in WoD, but when you do, reduce your resistance ignored to some value below 40%.
What is the effectiveness of each ability by itself and what is their effectiveness together?
Tell us how the first test result matches up with the second test result and then tell us, when you running fbi, are you fighting dummies?
Btw, only 3k-4k group can clear tia in one try, with or without those sets, believe it or not.
Well, yesterday was the first time I saw tiamat go down on phase 1. I don't advertise my iLvl when I LFG so I just assume I get invited cuz they needed a body. I could have gotten lucky to have shown up at the right time when some nearly filled pre-made just needed a few more to queue. The group did have more than half 3-4Kers, and like eight DCs including me.
Anyway, it's more buff/debuff than high sets. Got an alliance group run with SW and DC. Group consists of 2.4k ILs(no joke). I'm surprised that eToS run is a breeze from buff/debuff (no high sets) way different from my initial thought from "This will take me an hour" to "Oh wow. That was quick".
The bonding will need to be addressed at some point. But don't think they can do much about it in the near future. Lots of whales paid lots of money for their legendary pets and R12 bondings. They have to let them have their fun for a year or two before they can think about nerfing it. People who paid obscene amount of AD for the high set should have invested in bonding instead.
Btw, only 3k-4k group can clear tia in one try, with or without those sets, believe it or not.
Well, yesterday was the first time I saw tiamat go down on phase 1. I don't advertise my iLvl when I LFG so I just assume I get invited cuz they needed a body. I could have gotten lucky to have shown up at the right time when some nearly filled pre-made just needed a few more to queue. The group did have more than half 3-4Kers, and like eight DCs including me.
Anyway, it's more buff/debuff than high sets. Got an alliance group run with SW and DC. Group consists of 2.4k ILs(no joke). I'm surprised that eToS run is a breeze from buff/debuff (no high sets) way different from my initial thought from "This will take me an hour" to "Oh wow. That was quick".
The bonding will need to be addressed at some point. But don't think they can do much about it in the near future. Lots of whales paid lots of money for their legendary pets and R12 bondings. They have to let them have their fun for a year or two before they can think about nerfing it. People who paid obscene amount of AD for the high set should have invested in bonding instead.
Noone is asking for nerfs WE are asking for fixes to the powers/items that are so OP broken that they make the advantage from the HV/HP sets trivial at best. If they are trivial...why do we use them? Because that is what min/max is about. If I thought I could squeeze 1/2 percent performance out of grinding my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off for a piece of trivial gear...I am crazy enough to do it. This mentality may be strange to some, but it does not justify being crucified for pointing out what really needs fixing.
Comments
OR we are forced to get a gf offensive stats and a sw to do as fast we can?
IF you attack your enemy only with that debuff applied the combat log clear shows you that your damage outside( ) increased by 30% comparing it to damage in ()?
[Combat (Self)] Your Magic Missile deals 1692 (1254) Arcane Damage to Target Dummy.
this is after double ray of effeblement. debuff value is 35%. my damage increased by 35% 1254+35%= 1692.
I have a righteous DC build for full buff and debuff support and use HP set. From time to time I just random queue for dungeons and skirmishes and most of the times the teams I get, even with all the buffs and debuffs I throw, just take forever to kill something... So it's not the sets or gear that make the player imho. It helps yes, but gear alone does not do miracles. Don't expect that having these sets on a team will make the run go smooth and fast....
As has been the case for the longest time over many modules, the very popular CW class will now be completely screwed, and (although initially shocked) I now don't blame the guildie that finally, recently gave up and sold his account.
With DPS HRs and SWs doing so well from the recent "balance" effort, and GWFs still tearing up eveything, the CW is now completely at it's lowest point of relevance.
But wait, there's more! Plenty CWs are finally giving up and looking for relevance in buff/debuff - only to find that their cornerstone weapon, the HV set, is being destroyed.
After all this time of neglect, and CWs desperately looking for relevance in a different area, it managed to become even worse
From newbies perspective, I see this as justice, no matter what logic and reason you pull out here.
Besides I play with a large variety of players, and the sad fact is that even when I'm going full debuffs on my fire CW, I still do far more damage than most players in this game. It's not just about gear. It's about how you use it.
I bet u dont know anything abt buff/debuff calculations but in real situations where team have full r12 bondings and legendary pet, ACDC with full relic gear (lightender) can provide similar bonus as HP set due to 3k+ power more from base stat. Stop saying things you dont know and claim to be true, like sharp said, video or it doesnt happen. Dont say i only know abt the BIS team but dont know what happen at 2k+ il. My DCs ranges from 2k to 3k, and yes i have multiple DCs so i know, and im sure u dont have a DC as a main cuz u talk nonsense.
2) High Prophet isn't 6% anyway.
3) The mitigation depends on enemy's damage resistance, so maybe a dummy isn't the best choice to test it. Anyway HV set is 30% if your ArP is capped.
I don't think I've complained about these sets in past. As far as I can recall, I think this post is the first time I said anything about these sets. And it was more of a, "its about time" remark. And that these sets can contribute to amazing things like tiamat going down in phase 1 and Lostmeal going down before my ITF resets. Now I get my head bit off for it.</blockquote>
You sobered up. That's good. That drunken rage doesn't help.
Anyway, it's more buff/debuff than high sets. Got an alliance group run with SW and DC. Group consists of 2.4k ILs(no joke). I'm surprised that eToS run is a breeze from buff/debuff (no high sets) way different from my initial thought from "This will take me an hour" to "Oh wow. That was quick".
COMbat log is clear for any debuff ingame when you test 1 by 1. you dont need for this simple test math types.
Whats the effectiveness of each debuff by itself?
Now, do the same test on a dragon in WoD, but when you do, reduce your resistance ignored to some value below 40%.
What is the effectiveness of each ability by itself and what is their effectiveness together?
Tell us how the first test result matches up with the second test result and then tell us, when you running fbi, are you fighting dummies?