@thefabricant You keep dragging that out, but it's irrelevant to this discussion. We're discussing issues with gear that was meant to be replaced, not artifacts (see @asterdahl's comments).
Also, if you read those same comments, you'll note other changes are coming G.
So please stop trying to deflect away from the topic by dragging out other issues. If the loss of the set bonus isn't a big loss to you, stop yelling so loudly.
We're aiming to continue addressing these problematic areas, we even have some additional adjustments planned for this module. This is a first step we felt we had to take to ensure that as we continued to make these adjustments we were affecting groups equally.
Obviously this issue has remained stagnant for a long time so I can understand those who are skeptical of impending changes. All I can say is: please continue to watch for future adjustments and continue to provide feedback. It's very valuable to us.
Then why, exactly, is this item...
... in the next lockbox?
We reported it several times. It's quite rare now, but if you put it in the nex lockbox, everyone will spend money to upgrade it, just to see it fixed when it's a bit too late.
1)I wouldnt even trying get it for 10 seconds duration. 2) debuff scaling yes but read 1. 3) a smaller and normal debuff with higher duration is better than > 10 seconds with cooldown 60 or you think the whole pt will get token for 100% uptime? that would be crazy.
hmm, well I'd certainty get it, now should i get it , before the nerf as it is now , or after the nerf so that i'd possibly minimize the loss of lot's AD again
@thefabricant You keep dragging that out, but it's irrelevant to this discussion. We're discussing issues with gear that was meant to be replaced, not artifacts (see @asterdahl's comments).
Also, if you read those same comments, you'll note other changes are coming G.
So please stop trying to deflect away from the topic by dragging out other issues. If the loss of the set bonus isn't a big loss to you, stop yelling so loudly.
The loss is big for everyone wearing their respective set. What they are trying to do is balance the game though, if they came to the point that they need to cut the sets which are being used by fairly little population in the game then of course they need to know that commander strike is overworking since most of the guardian fighter population is using it.
If they are doing this, they need to refund everyone the AD they spend on purchasing the sets. They seriously have a screw loose.
You're kidding right? The only idiots are the ones spending millions to acquire those sets. I LMAO every time I hear someone bought either a piece or the whole set for the price of an island. Glad they are finally being addressed by my god Cryptic take forever to fix things. I predict that Bondings will finally be addressed properly in 2019.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Last time we had rewards in the game... Mods 1-4 with old GG/T2s & old CN around.
I agree...but think about this. When did this "runaway" power creep start to really build?
Module 6.
When did the game stop really feeling good about dungeon rewards, upgrades and loot?
Module 6.
So do you think that perhaps the fact that they're finally starting to address this runaway power creep might actually lead back to more challenging and rewarding dungeons?
No. The problem is they changed things in a very bad way since Module 6. I don't believe the current crew knows what they are doing. The player experience will continue to go downhill and the playerbase will continue to contract.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited October 2016
i have dps thaumaturge end game build yesterday made solo 1 scorpion in 15 seconds in elol the one i got away from the party. How i did that without a vizier or a buff debuff with striker companion which it is not have a debuff ability also?
EVEN if you nerf buff-debuff i will still able to do that and you will only achieve to punish new players or lower item level players.
AS DPS i see noone judge me increasing my aggresive stats to hit harder. SO why we have to judge someone trying to offer to the team the best possible efficiecency?
If they are doing this, they need to refund everyone the AD they spend on purchasing the sets. They seriously have a screw loose.
You're kidding right? The only idiots are the ones spending millions to acquire those sets. I LMAO every time I hear someone bought either a piece or the whole set for the price of an island. Glad they are finally being addressed by my god Cryptic take forever to fix things. I predict that Bondings will finally be addressed properly in 2019.
Your missing the point. They have been in existence since the beginning of the game. There is a certain expectation when something has remained for that long. Could you imagine buying a car and then the next month they make cars illegal to drive? Do you laugh at people that spend 20,30 or 100K on cars? Should we worry that they will be illegal next year? Sorry, but they do owe something more to their playerbase. This sets a very bad precedent and I won't be spending a penny more on this game.
i have dps thaumaturge end game build yesterday made solo 1 scorpion in 15 seconds in elol the one i got away from the party. How i did that without a vizier or a buff debuff with striker companion which it is not have a debuff ability also?
EVEN if you nerf buff-debuff i will still able to do that and you will only achieve to punish new players or lower item level players.
it's because your build is endgame then scorpion couldn't be much of a threat to you, and since you are not using any of the sets that are subject of change why should they nerf you?
This is agood idea for the long term, it is a hard one and I will back the devs here. But I would just like to add that the High Vizier set was the only thing tha allowd my Opressor CW (the CC focused tree) to be invited into dungeon runs. Without its bonus, my Opressor is useless now for endgame PVE content.
I would just like to remind the devs here that CC focused trees (for all classes, except HR - Trapper is in a good place) are in a very bad position, without a role to play in end game content.
There was an amazing game from Crypt that had it right - City of Heroes/City of Villains, where the Controller archetype was AMAZING to play. I loved my Controller in CoH/CoV.
And what made it great? CC + Debuffs. One thing I would like to recommend, that would fix both issues (underperforming feat trees + old set bonus removal), would be to add more debuffs to CC focused trees (CW Opressor, HR Trapper, TR Scoundrel, GWF Instigator, etc)
If the CC focused trees had access to more debufss, this would create more gameplay diversity, and would alleviate the pain from removing the old sets.
If they are doing this, they need to refund everyone the AD they spend on purchasing the sets. They seriously have a screw loose.
You're kidding right? The only idiots are the ones spending millions to acquire those sets. I LMAO every time I hear someone bought either a piece or the whole set for the price of an island. Glad they are finally being addressed by my god Cryptic take forever to fix things. I predict that Bondings will finally be addressed properly in 2019.
Your missing the point. They have been in existence since the beginning of the game. There is a certain expectation when something has remained for that long. Could you imagine buying a car and then the next month they make cars illegal to drive? Do you laugh at people that spend 20,30 or 100K on cars? Should we worry that they will be illegal next year? Sorry, but they do owe something more to their playerbase. This sets a very bad precedent and I won't be spending a penny more on this game.
The thing is that they've anticipated the way that people like you will react and still have no intent of compensating anyone.
This doesn't really set a precedent because there really aren't any items that have been treated similarly to mod 5 armor. Otherwise you're going to have to find an item that was removed from drop tables due to balance issues and remaining copies were left untouched despite this. People were buying pieces at exorbitant secondary market prices in spite of the clear intent the devs had when they removed them from drop tables. Anyone buying them took a risk and knew it.
If they are doing this, they need to refund everyone the AD they spend on purchasing the sets. They seriously have a screw loose.
You're kidding right? The only idiots are the ones spending millions to acquire those sets. I LMAO every time I hear someone bought either a piece or the whole set for the price of an island. Glad they are finally being addressed by my god Cryptic take forever to fix things. I predict that Bondings will finally be addressed properly in 2019.
Won't even be mad about bondings at this point. They'll still be good after whatever nerf Cryptic makes and even if they nerf them next year I've gotten plenty of use out of them.
Your missing the point. They have been in existence since the beginning of the game. There is a certain expectation when something has remained for that long. Could you imagine buying a car and then the next month they make cars illegal to drive? Do you laugh at people that spend 20,30 or 100K on cars? Should we worry that they will be illegal next year? Sorry, but they do owe something more to their playerbase. This sets a very bad precedent and I won't be spending a penny more on this game.
Not a valid comparison. Just because something has been around for a long time doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed. Features come and go. Devs can change anything they like. If the player base doesn't like it, they can leave.
The OP should try to sell it. Hopefully he can find the next greater fool before the music stops for good and he is left holding the bag.
They should have did this long ago, like with the Underdark module. By that time, people had plenty of time to get their strongholds or elemental/protector sets. There was no need for the old set unless to exploit their outdated features.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
This is agood idea for the long term, it is a hard one and I will back the devs here. But I would just like to add that the High Vizier set was the only thing tha allowd my Opressor CW (the CC focused tree) to be invited into dungeon runs. Without its bonus, my Opressor is useless now for endgame PVE content.
I would just like to remind the devs here that CC focused trees (for all classes, except HR - Trapper is in a good place) are in a very bad position, without a role to play in end game content.
There was an amazing game from Crypt that had it right - City of Heroes/City of Villains, where the Controller archetype was AMAZING to play. I loved my Controller in CoH/CoV.
And what made it great? CC + Debuffs. One thing I would like to recommend, that would fix both issues (underperforming feat trees + old set bonus removal), would be to add more debuffs to CC focused trees (CW Opressor, HR Trapper, TR Scoundrel, GWF Instigator, etc)
If the CC focused trees had access to more debufss, this would create more gameplay diversity, and would alleviate the pain from removing the old sets.
Just an idea.
if you are the master of flame opressor you have access to the debuff part but not to buffing( renegade).
Please don't nerf the old sets. They aren't the problem. You are making a poor decision doing this to your players that have stayed loyal this long. Very upsetting to hear about this.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
@torontodave Oh, I have to imagine that one's coming, too...I've already pick up all the cheap land up in the hills around the coast, because when that shoe drops, there will be so many tears, I'll be sitting on prime beachfront property.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
SInce the thread talking about balancing make the content trivial i will say this. The Stat critical is about to have as much critical hit you can. ON offensive stats it says 100% critical chance that chance is not anymore a chance at 100%. I think critical needs a cap to 80% and more diminshing returns to power this.
Your missing the point. They have been in existence since the beginning of the game. There is a certain expectation when something has remained for that long. Could you imagine buying a car and then the next month they make cars illegal to drive? Do you laugh at people that spend 20,30 or 100K on cars? Should we worry that they will be illegal next year? Sorry, but they do owe something more to their playerbase. This sets a very bad precedent and I won't be spending a penny more on this game.
Not a valid comparison. Just because something has been around for a long time doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed. Features come and go. Devs can change anything they like. If the player base doesn't like it, they can leave.
The OP should try to sell it. Hopefully he can find the next greater fool before the music stops for good and he is left holding the bag.
They should have did this long ago, like with the Underdark module. By that time, people had plenty of time to get their strongholds or elemental/protector sets. There was no need for the old set unless to exploit their outdated features.
Sure they can do whatever they want and that includes taking down the game servers permanently. But clearly it devalues everything in the game (enchants, bonding stones, legendary mounts) as it is clear nothing is safe and nothing is worth buying.
Your missing the point. They have been in existence since the beginning of the game. There is a certain expectation when something has remained for that long. Could you imagine buying a car and then the next month they make cars illegal to drive? Do you laugh at people that spend 20,30 or 100K on cars? Should we worry that they will be illegal next year? Sorry, but they do owe something more to their playerbase. This sets a very bad precedent and I won't be spending a penny more on this game.
Not a valid comparison. Just because something has been around for a long time doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed. Features come and go. Devs can change anything they like. If the player base doesn't like it, they can leave.
The OP should try to sell it. Hopefully he can find the next greater fool before the music stops for good and he is left holding the bag.
They should have did this long ago, like with the Underdark module. By that time, people had plenty of time to get their strongholds or elemental/protector sets. There was no need for the old set unless to exploit their outdated features.
Sure they can do whatever they want and that includes taking down the game servers permanently. But clearly it devalues everything in the game (enchants, bonding stones, legendary mounts) as it is clear nothing is safe and nothing is worth buying.
Again, it's disingenuous to imply that there's anything that has been treated in the same manner as the mod 5 sets.
so disappointed to hear about this. it would be terrible for the section of the PVE community consisting of both long-standing loyal players who held onto these sets and newer players who spent millions of ADs to be able to use them in later mods. this could ruin a lot of people's experiences playing NW and I imagine the resulting scandal would mirror, or possibly even go beyond the complaints received during coal ward gate. these sets are far from your biggest concern when addressing issues in game. please reconsider.
I'm torn on this one. Have to agree with @thefabricant that the Mod 6 sets are a weird spot to start the "debuff balancing", but it had to be done anyway.
In case you haven't gotten the memo: Crytic is trying to balance their resources more than anything and there are simply too many areas of concern right now for them to fix at once. Which is not a testament to the initial design, but that's another story. Nerfing the sets is not the most logical but easiest thing to do.
The main point OP was referring to was that some players got (and still have considering the "vivid traffic" on the forum) a headstart and rip other - including him - off.
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
The main point OP was referring to was that some players got (and still have considering the "vivid traffic" on the forum) a headstart and rip other - including him - off.
OP got ripped off because he bought a piece that was posted well under the market price at the time without checking to see if there was a reason why the price had dropped so much. Now HV pieces are going for 300k. Honestly I don't have much sympathy for someone that's buying HV pieces at 300k without at least trying to figure out why the prices have dropped so much.
Similarly anyone buying HP armor for 900k knows that pieces were going for 3+ million before.
Your missing the point. They have been in existence since the beginning of the game. There is a certain expectation when something has remained for that long. Could you imagine buying a car and then the next month they make cars illegal to drive? Do you laugh at people that spend 20,30 or 100K on cars? Should we worry that they will be illegal next year? Sorry, but they do owe something more to their playerbase. This sets a very bad precedent and I won't be spending a penny more on this game.
Not a valid comparison. Just because something has been around for a long time doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed. Features come and go. Devs can change anything they like. If the player base doesn't like it, they can leave.
The OP should try to sell it. Hopefully he can find the next greater fool before the music stops for good and he is left holding the bag.
They should have did this long ago, like with the Underdark module. By that time, people had plenty of time to get their strongholds or elemental/protector sets. There was no need for the old set unless to exploit their outdated features.
Sure they can do whatever they want and that includes taking down the game servers permanently. But clearly it devalues everything in the game (enchants, bonding stones, legendary mounts) as it is clear nothing is safe and nothing is worth buying.
Again, it's disingenuous to imply that there's anything that has been treated in the same manner as the mod 5 sets.
I'm not implying anything about mod 5 sets, these are mod 0 and mod 2 sets. They aren't "nerfing" these sets, they are removing them. As has been pointed out in other threads, these sets are not as OP as people think they are but that is besides the point. I have a problem with them once again removing content from the game.
The main point OP was referring to was that some players got (and still have considering the "vivid traffic" on the forum) a headstart and rip other - including him - off.
These people are clearly clairvoyant and in no way receiving inside information ... that's just not possible s/
which is "When should level 60 gear outperform level 70 gear?" (Answer: never)
What does that say about all the armor sets we've had since then? (Answer: they haven't been great)
I agree, there is no diversity with any of the new sets. The only thing that is looked at are the stats and that funnels people to those pieces that give the "best" stats for them. I liked the diversity of the old sets, yeah lots of people still funneled but there were more and interesting options and you could build around those sets. Now.... oh look this give me .04%(pulled this from my kittens) more power over last mode set, i guess i will grind it out cause i got nothing else to do..... just saying
Your missing the point. They have been in existence since the beginning of the game. There is a certain expectation when something has remained for that long. Could you imagine buying a car and then the next month they make cars illegal to drive? Do you laugh at people that spend 20,30 or 100K on cars? Should we worry that they will be illegal next year? Sorry, but they do owe something more to their playerbase. This sets a very bad precedent and I won't be spending a penny more on this game.
Not a valid comparison. Just because something has been around for a long time doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed. Features come and go. Devs can change anything they like. If the player base doesn't like it, they can leave.
The OP should try to sell it. Hopefully he can find the next greater fool before the music stops for good and he is left holding the bag.
They should have did this long ago, like with the Underdark module. By that time, people had plenty of time to get their strongholds or elemental/protector sets. There was no need for the old set unless to exploit their outdated features.
Sure they can do whatever they want and that includes taking down the game servers permanently. But clearly it devalues everything in the game (enchants, bonding stones, legendary mounts) as it is clear nothing is safe and nothing is worth buying.
Again, it's disingenuous to imply that there's anything that has been treated in the same manner as the mod 5 sets.
I'm not implying anything about mod 5 sets, these are mod 0 and mod 2 sets. They aren't "nerfing" these sets, they are removing them. As has been pointed out in other threads, these sets are not as OP as people think they are but that is besides the point. I have a problem with them once again removing content from the game.
Woo lets harp on semantics instead of addressing the point.
The sets are still going to be in game. They're just removing the set bonus. Now they're in-line with lvl 60 armor like they should be.
The main point OP was referring to was that some players got (and still have considering the "vivid traffic" on the forum) a headstart and rip other - including him - off.
These people are clearly clairvoyant and in no way receiving inside information ... that's just not possible s/
Just like anyone that's getting ripped off isn't clueless for not wondering why prices have dropped so much.
The problem is the game makers keep changing the game by taking "stuff" away or making it useless for the sake of balancing the game. What the point? All its going to do is make so it takes longer to complete the same (not new content) for the same rewards (90 percent of which is blue salvage). How does any of this make sense? Take gateway away, nothing or no plan in place to help people how used it. Take dungeons away with the promise of them returning (1.5 years + now). When was the last time a new class was added to game?
Don't get me wrong the new content is visually stunning and lots of work went to it. But come on, empowered gear.... and the campaign is not alt friendly like underdark was...
We have no idea once everything is "balanced" out what then happens? Do they add drops to the game were its worthwhile to spend and 1+ hours in a dungeon? No idea what its going to look like. All we know is its going to take more time to complete this content for the same rewards, just terrible.
I am a concerned player, and at this point so much take take take, the game is not the same as mod 1, it is so very different from when it was released...
Mod 1 though 5 was neverwinter 1.0, Mod 6 to current is neverwinter 2.0, how do the 2 compare???
Post edited by uptondarkdiamond on
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darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
@imperiousshini So maybe you'll answer this - why should level 60 gear outperform level 70 gear?
If it's that big of a hit to you, then it shows the devs are making the right move.
Or if, as Fabricant says, it's not a huge boost to use those sets, you really aren't losing that much.
If you can get 3 percent (or whatever it was) boost from different gear would you use it? So, yeah old time players had that option available to them now they don't.
The game makers continue to take, take, and take all in the name of "balacing" or "bots". At least when they did it with lostmauth they gave us the options of trading that set in, it was a well thought out move. This and gateway I don't think are as well thought out.
Comments
Also, if you read those same comments, you'll note other changes are coming G.
So please stop trying to deflect away from the topic by dragging out other issues. If the loss of the set bonus isn't a big loss to you, stop yelling so loudly.
Methinks @thefabricant doth protest too much...
@cdnbison The loss is big for everyone wearing their respective set.
What they are trying to do is balance the game though, if they came to the point that they need to cut the sets which are being used by fairly little population in the game then of course they need to know that commander strike is overworking since most of the guardian fighter population is using it.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
EVEN if you nerf buff-debuff i will still able to do that and you will only achieve to punish new players or lower item level players.
AS DPS i see noone judge me increasing my aggresive stats to hit harder. SO why we have to judge someone trying to offer to the team the best possible efficiecency?
I would just like to remind the devs here that CC focused trees (for all classes, except HR - Trapper is in a good place) are in a very bad position, without a role to play in end game content.
There was an amazing game from Crypt that had it right - City of Heroes/City of Villains, where the Controller archetype was AMAZING to play. I loved my Controller in CoH/CoV.
And what made it great? CC + Debuffs. One thing I would like to recommend, that would fix both issues (underperforming feat trees + old set bonus removal), would be to add more debuffs to CC focused trees (CW Opressor, HR Trapper, TR Scoundrel, GWF Instigator, etc)
If the CC focused trees had access to more debufss, this would create more gameplay diversity, and would alleviate the pain from removing the old sets.
Just an idea.
Leliana C.W. - Opressor CW
Lelian O.P. - Bulwark Paladin
This doesn't really set a precedent because there really aren't any items that have been treated similarly to mod 5 armor. Otherwise you're going to have to find an item that was removed from drop tables due to balance issues and remaining copies were left untouched despite this. People were buying pieces at exorbitant secondary market prices in spite of the clear intent the devs had when they removed them from drop tables. Anyone buying them took a risk and knew it. Won't even be mad about bondings at this point. They'll still be good after whatever nerf Cryptic makes and even if they nerf them next year I've gotten plenty of use out of them.
The OP should try to sell it. Hopefully he can find the next greater fool before the music stops for good and he is left holding the bag.
They should have did this long ago, like with the Underdark module. By that time, people had plenty of time to get their strongholds or elemental/protector sets. There was no need for the old set unless to exploit their outdated features.
The Stat critical is about to have as much critical hit you can.
ON offensive stats it says 100% critical chance that chance is not anymore a chance at 100%. I think critical needs a cap to 80% and more diminshing returns to power this.
In case you haven't gotten the memo: Crytic is trying to balance their resources more than anything and there are simply too many areas of concern right now for them to fix at once. Which is not a testament to the initial design, but that's another story. Nerfing the sets is not the most logical but easiest thing to do.
OP got ripped off because he bought a piece that was posted well under the market price at the time without checking to see if there was a reason why the price had dropped so much. Now HV pieces are going for 300k. Honestly I don't have much sympathy for someone that's buying HV pieces at 300k without at least trying to figure out why the prices have dropped so much.
Similarly anyone buying HP armor for 900k knows that pieces were going for 3+ million before.
The sets are still going to be in game. They're just removing the set bonus. Now they're in-line with lvl 60 armor like they should be. Just like anyone that's getting ripped off isn't clueless for not wondering why prices have dropped so much.
Don't get me wrong the new content is visually stunning and lots of work went to it. But come on, empowered gear.... and the campaign is not alt friendly like underdark was...
We have no idea once everything is "balanced" out what then happens? Do they add drops to the game were its worthwhile to spend and 1+ hours in a dungeon? No idea what its going to look like. All we know is its going to take more time to complete this content for the same rewards, just terrible.
I am a concerned player, and at this point so much take take take, the game is not the same as mod 1, it is so very different from when it was released...
Mod 1 though 5 was neverwinter 1.0, Mod 6 to current is neverwinter 2.0, how do the 2 compare???
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
If it's that big of a hit to you, then it shows the devs are making the right move.
Or if, as Fabricant says, it's not a huge boost to use those sets, you really aren't losing that much.
The game makers continue to take, take, and take all in the name of "balacing" or "bots". At least when they did it with lostmauth they gave us the options of trading that set in, it was a well thought out move. This and gateway I don't think are as well thought out.