I'm not excited about this one bit. I swap between my mod 5 gear and my current (non-empowered) gear (combo dusk and DF) a lot depending on group situation and the dungeon i'm in. I haven't done FBI because I do not like empowered gear and really don't feel its the best use of time if the dungeons only "high end" reward is armor that has to be empowered to be BIS. I have been playing since a little after the game has been released and through the ups and downs i have enjoyed it (expect Mod 6). I like the new zone they are fun and very stunning. With this change its just seems more stuff is being taking away and make me unhappy... We lose more stuff (mod 5 gear) and gain the grindy empowerment gear... We lost our dungeon selection (I really miss DV and Spell Plague), we lost gateway... I really could use some good news right now....
We're aiming to continue addressing these problematic areas, we even have some additional adjustments planned for this module. This is a first step we felt we had to take to ensure that as we continued to make these adjustments we were affecting groups equally.
Obviously this issue has remained stagnant for a long time so I can understand those who are skeptical of impending changes. All I can say is: please continue to watch for future adjustments and continue to provide feedback. It's very valuable to us.
Then why, exactly, is this item...
... in the next lockbox?
We reported it several times. It's quite rare now, but if you put it in the nex lockbox, everyone will spend money to upgrade it, just to see it fixed when it's a bit too late.
Get rekt? There was no guarantee that the set bonus would remain as is. They made it so they don't drop over two years ago, anyone buying them now should've known the risk involved.
Except that they didn't give a notice way much earlier like....a few months after they don't drop anymore. And as you said, two whole years. Why...now?
Edit: Just only read dev's post about the topic. Okay. Not sure if it's justified but I can only assume that the old dev team is the one at fault here.
Its really amusing to see all the ppl crying for nerfs. Remove the old sets, nerf buffs/debuffs mechanics... Apparently its so exiting to spent 50-60 minutes on one FBI run when in reality its no longer than elol. Juts millions of hp on everything so it would seem long. Oh and to what end? Have fun wasting an hour only to find out a half-eaten apple in the chest. Balancing out the rewards? Common.. What rewards? Last time we had rewards in the game... Mods 1-4 with old GG/T2s & old CN around. Before all this bind to char/artifact gear. Today spoiled apples all the way. Or you seriously calling farming for salvage & running same content 200-300+ times for a chance to get a good ring or artifact rewarding?
I would imagine that the speed run farming of Fangbreaker Island is the first opportunity the Devs have had to actually single out the affect of these old sets. A few small groups have worked out how to complete this new dungeon 'efficiently' using the features of the old sets along with some careful coordination. With so few regular players able to even enter the dungeon, the figures will have been relatively easy to work through giving them justifiction to act before the same approach is taken with the new major dungeon in the patch/mod dropping in November.
With lots of ordinary players able to relatively easily complete other dungeons, even recent ones like the revised version of Castle Never, it would have been hard to sort out the underlying factors which would be why no action has been taken before now.
I understand that these wearables are a problem. I understand that they want to alter them. I am furious that some players had a head start on this information. I despise that something very valuable I is taken/altered/destroyed/devalued and so far no compensation is being discussed.
When are they remove the bonus from Vorpal enchantments because they speed up Fanbreaker runs?
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
If these sets are so powerful and game breaking exchange them with the appropriate Relic Armor set.
Just taking (or destroying) is not the right way to go.
And why are these items still trade-able anyway after this statement from asterdahl? In the past Cryptic demonstrated that they can disable items on the AH without much effort in the running system. What is keeping you do do this here and now? Not enough people scammed?
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Last time we had rewards in the game... Mods 1-4 with old GG/T2s & old CN around.
I agree...but think about this. When did this "runaway" power creep start to really build?
Module 6.
When did the game stop really feeling good about dungeon rewards, upgrades and loot?
Module 6.
So do you think that perhaps the fact that they're finally starting to address this runaway power creep might actually lead back to more challenging and rewarding dungeons?
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
0
torontodaveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 992Arc User
NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
This is terrible news >.< I dont really care about doing dungeons faster/slower due to using HP, but for someone who has been playing this game since the very beginning its just meh.
We've spent a lot of time grinding old dungeons, back when the head piece dropped from Spellplague Caverns and it was 2-5 mil on AH for it. We didnt have "free" VIP keys and some profession bots to make AD out of nowhere, we had to farm dungeons for AD. Why not just nerf it? Make it 10% instead of 30%? Why remove the ONLY good set for a DC in the game? Some of us been using only that set since M1, never changed it..
Why not add more useful sets for our class, not just the ones that give stats? I know that DC is the healing class, but so many of us prefer buffing/debuffing, we choose our builds to be that way, so why take away the only set that completes it?
And it's hilarious because as a cleric with the new set I buff almost the same (I admit there could be 3-4% difference, that's game changing probably).
Sorry but its BS If you and another person have the exact same build, you dont have HP set but they do, then its obvious they will do more than you. Sure it depends on the boss and its mechanics, the DR/defense blablabla, but Ive ran a dungeon with you in the team and it was NOTHING close to other clerics who use the set. You might give more power due to the fact that HP is T1 and have less stats, but other than that? Nope. I dont know, maybe its just that they were using their powers better or smth, no idea. But the difference was huge.
I agree that both High Prophet and High Vizier are overpowered atm, but removing them aint the way to go.
I can accept, although feeling very sad my favorite HP set will be nerfed... I purposely adjust my DC so he can wear the set without much survivability problem... Can we just have an armor trade in just like how lostmauth works? Then we can get a bag of RAD and our reinforcement kit back, except those who bought the set with millions of AD who paid more than us, 4x greater armor reinforcement is 800k+ AD which is not cheap, it is like more than 3 weeks getting full RAD each day. Can we have a simple merchant to cut down our lost since this is a forced nerf? @asterdahl
^^^ That. I dont think people should get any AD for it, but it would be very nice to at least be able to trade our sets to something else.. Ive never bothered to even farm any other PvE set cause HP was enough, even with 60k hitpoints :P
I saw someone was complaining about being "forced" to use high prophet and they didnt like it cause of having 50k hitpoints but personally I like it, its a challenge. Ive done FBI in the set so many times, without a paladin on my team and it was OK, didnt die that much either.
We should be able to choose how we want to play and in what kind of gear, I rather play with 50k hp and nerfed high prophet than with 150k hp and useless stats..
Not to mention that questing as a PvP DC (no dps/debuff) is a freaking NIGHTMARE, and High Prophet was/is the only set that helps to not go crazy while doing dailies >.<
Hmm it would be great indeed if we could remove the major reinforcement kits intact from those sets that's smth i would value, though i would like to keep it in my inventory too so trading it to get a reinforcement back wouldn't work i'd rather lose 800k more than just destroy a part of my character's soul. If i could get the reinforcement back and keep the set I'd do it though, because even if nerfed after all this time it's grown to you and it's value really becomes all this mills worth in AH.
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
We're aiming to continue addressing these problematic areas, we even have some additional adjustments planned for this module. This is a first step we felt we had to take to ensure that as we continued to make these adjustments we were affecting groups equally.
Obviously this issue has remained stagnant for a long time so I can understand those who are skeptical of impending changes. All I can say is: please continue to watch for future adjustments and continue to provide feedback. It's very valuable to us.
Then why, exactly, is this item...
... in the next lockbox?
We reported it several times. It's quite rare now, but if you put it in the nex lockbox, everyone will spend money to upgrade it, just to see it fixed when it's a bit too late.
1)I wouldnt even trying get it for 10 seconds duration. 2) debuff scaling yes but read 1. 3) a smaller and normal debuff with higher duration is better than > 10 seconds with cooldown 60 or you think the whole pt will get token for 100% uptime? that would be crazy.
@thefabricant You keep dragging that out, but it's irrelevant to this discussion. We're discussing issues with gear that was meant to be replaced, not artifacts (see @asterdahl's comments).
Also, if you read those same comments, you'll note other changes are coming G.
So please stop trying to deflect away from the topic by dragging out other issues. If the loss of the set bonus isn't a big loss to you, stop yelling so loudly.
We're aiming to continue addressing these problematic areas, we even have some additional adjustments planned for this module. This is a first step we felt we had to take to ensure that as we continued to make these adjustments we were affecting groups equally.
Obviously this issue has remained stagnant for a long time so I can understand those who are skeptical of impending changes. All I can say is: please continue to watch for future adjustments and continue to provide feedback. It's very valuable to us.
Then why, exactly, is this item...
... in the next lockbox?
We reported it several times. It's quite rare now, but if you put it in the nex lockbox, everyone will spend money to upgrade it, just to see it fixed when it's a bit too late.
1)I wouldnt even trying get it for 10 seconds duration. 2) debuff scaling yes but read 1. 3) a smaller and normal debuff with higher duration is better than > 10 seconds with cooldown 60 or you think the whole pt will get token for 100% uptime? that would be crazy.
hmm, well I'd certainty get it, now should i get it , before the nerf as it is now , or after the nerf so that i'd possibly minimize the loss of lot's AD again
@thefabricant You keep dragging that out, but it's irrelevant to this discussion. We're discussing issues with gear that was meant to be replaced, not artifacts (see @asterdahl's comments).
Also, if you read those same comments, you'll note other changes are coming G.
So please stop trying to deflect away from the topic by dragging out other issues. If the loss of the set bonus isn't a big loss to you, stop yelling so loudly.
The loss is big for everyone wearing their respective set. What they are trying to do is balance the game though, if they came to the point that they need to cut the sets which are being used by fairly little population in the game then of course they need to know that commander strike is overworking since most of the guardian fighter population is using it.
If they are doing this, they need to refund everyone the AD they spend on purchasing the sets. They seriously have a screw loose.
You're kidding right? The only idiots are the ones spending millions to acquire those sets. I LMAO every time I hear someone bought either a piece or the whole set for the price of an island. Glad they are finally being addressed by my god Cryptic take forever to fix things. I predict that Bondings will finally be addressed properly in 2019.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Last time we had rewards in the game... Mods 1-4 with old GG/T2s & old CN around.
I agree...but think about this. When did this "runaway" power creep start to really build?
Module 6.
When did the game stop really feeling good about dungeon rewards, upgrades and loot?
Module 6.
So do you think that perhaps the fact that they're finally starting to address this runaway power creep might actually lead back to more challenging and rewarding dungeons?
No. The problem is they changed things in a very bad way since Module 6. I don't believe the current crew knows what they are doing. The player experience will continue to go downhill and the playerbase will continue to contract.
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited October 2016
i have dps thaumaturge end game build yesterday made solo 1 scorpion in 15 seconds in elol the one i got away from the party. How i did that without a vizier or a buff debuff with striker companion which it is not have a debuff ability also?
EVEN if you nerf buff-debuff i will still able to do that and you will only achieve to punish new players or lower item level players.
AS DPS i see noone judge me increasing my aggresive stats to hit harder. SO why we have to judge someone trying to offer to the team the best possible efficiecency?
If they are doing this, they need to refund everyone the AD they spend on purchasing the sets. They seriously have a screw loose.
You're kidding right? The only idiots are the ones spending millions to acquire those sets. I LMAO every time I hear someone bought either a piece or the whole set for the price of an island. Glad they are finally being addressed by my god Cryptic take forever to fix things. I predict that Bondings will finally be addressed properly in 2019.
Your missing the point. They have been in existence since the beginning of the game. There is a certain expectation when something has remained for that long. Could you imagine buying a car and then the next month they make cars illegal to drive? Do you laugh at people that spend 20,30 or 100K on cars? Should we worry that they will be illegal next year? Sorry, but they do owe something more to their playerbase. This sets a very bad precedent and I won't be spending a penny more on this game.
i have dps thaumaturge end game build yesterday made solo 1 scorpion in 15 seconds in elol the one i got away from the party. How i did that without a vizier or a buff debuff with striker companion which it is not have a debuff ability also?
EVEN if you nerf buff-debuff i will still able to do that and you will only achieve to punish new players or lower item level players.
it's because your build is endgame then scorpion couldn't be much of a threat to you, and since you are not using any of the sets that are subject of change why should they nerf you?
This is agood idea for the long term, it is a hard one and I will back the devs here. But I would just like to add that the High Vizier set was the only thing tha allowd my Opressor CW (the CC focused tree) to be invited into dungeon runs. Without its bonus, my Opressor is useless now for endgame PVE content.
I would just like to remind the devs here that CC focused trees (for all classes, except HR - Trapper is in a good place) are in a very bad position, without a role to play in end game content.
There was an amazing game from Crypt that had it right - City of Heroes/City of Villains, where the Controller archetype was AMAZING to play. I loved my Controller in CoH/CoV.
And what made it great? CC + Debuffs. One thing I would like to recommend, that would fix both issues (underperforming feat trees + old set bonus removal), would be to add more debuffs to CC focused trees (CW Opressor, HR Trapper, TR Scoundrel, GWF Instigator, etc)
If the CC focused trees had access to more debufss, this would create more gameplay diversity, and would alleviate the pain from removing the old sets.
Comments
Same with Artifact weapon, Reinforcements kits and Elemental gear
Real issue btc - its not player or alt friendly.
already tired of this mods "dressing" rush...no time to play with other alts, supporters and have fun ...
... in the next lockbox?
We reported it several times. It's quite rare now, but if you put it in the nex lockbox, everyone will spend money to upgrade it, just to see it fixed when it's a bit too late.
Edit: Just only read dev's post about the topic. Okay. Not sure if it's justified but I can only assume that the old dev team is the one at fault here.
With lots of ordinary players able to relatively easily complete other dungeons, even recent ones like the revised version of Castle Never, it would have been hard to sort out the underlying factors which would be why no action has been taken before now.
I understand that they want to alter them.
I am furious that some players had a head start on this information.
I despise that something very valuable I is taken/altered/destroyed/devalued and so far no compensation is being discussed.
When are they remove the bonus from Vorpal enchantments because they speed up Fanbreaker runs?
Just taking (or destroying) is not the right way to go.
And why are these items still trade-able anyway after this statement from asterdahl?
In the past Cryptic demonstrated that they can disable items on the AH without much effort in the running system.
What is keeping you do do this here and now? Not enough people scammed?
Module 6.
When did the game stop really feeling good about dungeon rewards, upgrades and loot?
Module 6.
So do you think that perhaps the fact that they're finally starting to address this runaway power creep might actually lead back to more challenging and rewarding dungeons?
NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
We've spent a lot of time grinding old dungeons, back when the head piece dropped from Spellplague Caverns and it was 2-5 mil on AH for it. We didnt have "free" VIP keys and some profession bots to make AD out of nowhere, we had to farm dungeons for AD.
Why not just nerf it? Make it 10% instead of 30%? Why remove the ONLY good set for a DC in the game? Some of us been using only that set since M1, never changed it..
Why not add more useful sets for our class, not just the ones that give stats?
I know that DC is the healing class, but so many of us prefer buffing/debuffing, we choose our builds to be that way, so why take away the only set that completes it?
Sorry but its BS
I agree that both High Prophet and High Vizier are overpowered atm, but removing them aint the way to go.
^^^ That. I dont think people should get any AD for it, but it would be very nice to at least be able to trade our sets to something else.. Ive never bothered to even farm any other PvE set cause HP was enough, even with 60k hitpoints :P
I saw someone was complaining about being "forced" to use high prophet and they didnt like it cause of having 50k hitpoints but personally I like it, its a challenge. Ive done FBI in the set so many times, without a paladin on my team and it was OK, didnt die that much either.
We should be able to choose how we want to play and in what kind of gear, I rather play with 50k hp and nerfed high prophet than with 150k hp and useless stats..
Not to mention that questing as a PvP DC (no dps/debuff) is a freaking NIGHTMARE, and High Prophet was/is the only set that helps to not go crazy while doing dailies >.<
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Hmm it would be great indeed if we could remove the major reinforcement kits intact from those sets that's smth i would value, though i would like to keep it in my inventory too so trading it to get a reinforcement back wouldn't work i'd rather lose 800k more than just destroy a part of my character's soul. If i could get the reinforcement back and keep the set I'd do it though, because even if nerfed after all this time it's grown to you and it's value really becomes all this mills worth in AH.
Also, if you read those same comments, you'll note other changes are coming G.
So please stop trying to deflect away from the topic by dragging out other issues. If the loss of the set bonus isn't a big loss to you, stop yelling so loudly.
Methinks @thefabricant doth protest too much...
@cdnbison The loss is big for everyone wearing their respective set.
What they are trying to do is balance the game though, if they came to the point that they need to cut the sets which are being used by fairly little population in the game then of course they need to know that commander strike is overworking since most of the guardian fighter population is using it.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
EVEN if you nerf buff-debuff i will still able to do that and you will only achieve to punish new players or lower item level players.
AS DPS i see noone judge me increasing my aggresive stats to hit harder. SO why we have to judge someone trying to offer to the team the best possible efficiecency?
I would just like to remind the devs here that CC focused trees (for all classes, except HR - Trapper is in a good place) are in a very bad position, without a role to play in end game content.
There was an amazing game from Crypt that had it right - City of Heroes/City of Villains, where the Controller archetype was AMAZING to play. I loved my Controller in CoH/CoV.
And what made it great? CC + Debuffs. One thing I would like to recommend, that would fix both issues (underperforming feat trees + old set bonus removal), would be to add more debuffs to CC focused trees (CW Opressor, HR Trapper, TR Scoundrel, GWF Instigator, etc)
If the CC focused trees had access to more debufss, this would create more gameplay diversity, and would alleviate the pain from removing the old sets.
Just an idea.
Leliana C.W. - Opressor CW
Lelian O.P. - Bulwark Paladin