inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
Why the sets were not broken, just old, did you ever get to use one, they really aren't as game breaking as you think, you get to die a lot. get your HP down to 35k and go run etos. You might get a fresh perspective.
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inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
Like what i said, the issue is not asking for special reward or not, they are like turning your full elemental DF gear with 4x major reinforcement kit slotted into a junk salvage from CN without a proper reason. I seriously dont think saving 1 minute from dungeon runs at the cost of stat and hp lost while running a special build for not dying is forbidden. Even if devs dont like us saving that pity 1 min they can at least temporary introduce a npc that unslot armor kits from those sets.
If they are kind or sincere enough they can also give a special title like old adventurer or beta explorer to those set holder. I am sure players will be happy about it. Simplying saying "we are going to destroy ur bis favorite set because we feel you should go for new set every mod" doesnt look responsible to your playerbase.
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inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
As far as I know the set (HP)isn't bugged, I know it performs well, but that's not the same thing. Looks to me that most posts at the beginning of the thread were nothing more than people complaining to devs to nerf the other classes that were outperforming them, the(If I can't be a cheerleader, no one can be a cheerleader) argument. And others complaining they couldn't obtain the set, though they could have purchased the set on the AH, just didn't want to work for it.
They really need a way to make reinforcement kits reusable. I agree that it sucks to basically throw out at least 500k worth of kits for ANY reason. Be it normal gear progression or set boni nerfs..
It's like they want to punish players for wanting more stats. That's just mean
People paid millions of AD for these sets on the AH and they were killed without warning. I know a friend who bought full Highviz for 8million just last month.
Put a voucher vendor system in place so people can trade in their set pieces for valuable goods or currency. That is fair.
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
@jazzfong "They are like turning your full elemental DF gear with 4x major reinforcement kit slotted into a junk salvage from CN without a proper reason"
Spurious argument.
First, you combined the reinforcement kit issue (which we all agree should be removable) with your legacy set argument to make your case. Two separate issues.
Second, Full elemental Dragonflight gear hasn't been around for almost 3 mother-"hamster" years.
Legacy sets have been here almost 3 god-"hamster" years.
Not remotely the same thing.
I've had almost 3 years with my HP, HV and KC. I loved them. I am an expert on them... and I don't mind them leaving.
TLDR
The mechanics of the game today are completely different in too many ways to list here. Legacy does not fit anymore.
Get over it, dude
Bigger fish to fry here.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
They really need a way to make reinforcement kits reusable. I agree that it sucks to basically throw out at least 500k worth of kits for ANY reason. Be it normal gear progression or set boni nerfs..
It's like they want to punish players for wanting more stats. That's just mean
^^^ This, and since they are already (somewhat) coded as enchants, it shouldn't be very difficult to make them removable...
Couple that newfound sense of confidence in making these sorts of nerfs and changes with the fact that in Module 10 with Fangbreaker we introduced a new tier of difficulty—one where bosses are designed to be longer fights that aim to test adventurers mechanically as well as statistically—and that is essentially the genesis of how this change came to be.
The most fun I ever had in Neverwinter was mastering the seriously difficult boss fights in the original tier 2 dungeons.
The least fun I ever had in Neverwinter was the highly repetitive grind in each module to unlock the new dungeon/skirmish/boons (as you say, EE was the worst of it.)
I got past enough grind to unlock Fangbreaker Island and I have to say, it feels a bit like old times. The dungeon is truly enjoyable for me.
Regarding the set removal - all my original toons have the sets. I don't use them and I think it's perfectly reasonable to remove the set bonus as part of the overall strategy to return end-game content to a challenge of skill more than a challenge of stats.
+1 this.. I don't think a single enemy in SKT can be controlled by any of my "control" wizards moves. Entangle grasp/Frozen/Stealtime/etc/etc/etc
You're getting confused by a UI error. The class is called "DPS Wizard"
@asterdahl While rebalancing powers please also consider control strength / control resist / control immunity. I played Oppressor for a long time after "Control" as in Wizard became an anachronism because I like that play style. I'm sure many others like it as well. In the end, I gave in and went Thaum because things are just immune to control (effectively or absolutely) when it matters most.
How about 8 million for a set that doesn't drop anymore and still gives you an edge?? Your forgetting about the rarity of these unbound sets now. If they were accessible, how expensive do you think be?? Even when the market was flooded with them HV still went for a chunk of change, not 8 million, but it was way more expensive than any other CW set... rarity is what drive that price now....
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inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
"One assumes", exactly the point, your assuming.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Please focus on stating your own opinion rather than criticizing, without supporting facts, what others have said and always remain respectful. It is useful to leave this thread open to allow everyone to share their thoughts. Please keep the discussion positive.
The facts are the devs are using FBI as a benchmark to determine "OP" game mechanics. This is a solid foundation to work with.
There's a difference between gear becoming naturally obsolete with content progression compared to direct developer nerfing because they feel the sets are OP in FBI.
People with mod 5 set bonuses are either your most tenured/loyal or "rich" players, or both. (They're also most likely your most informed and skillful players if they're running said sets in FBI.)
My final feedback on this topic is it is unfair to intentionally isolate and nerf gear many people are actively using (and/or spent a lot of money on), especially for how long said gear has been around, and not offer ANY form of in-game compensation or exchange.
This game needs more positive and constructive interaction with the community (from both sides). See @amenar class balance threads as a starting point for excellent dev interaction--he listened to the knowledgeable players and incorporated their feedback (while ignoring the distractions). Please do the right thing and keep your players happy. Happy players spend money, and the holiday season is nigh.
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lordseth1985Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 319Arc User
First, I must warn: english is not my primmary language so... forgive me my bad english.
Second, I'm really sad about those news... really sad.
I play and support this game since closed beta and one of my best times was back mods 2 and 3 when I grouped with friends and we did a lot of dungeon runs just to get the last piece of our equipment. Or did a lot of tiamat runs to farm currencies just to get the draconic sets. All I wanted was the old sets [updated and tweaked up to lvl 70] and dungeons get back into the game so I and other old players could feel that good sensation and happines doing different dungeons with our friends to get THE armor and weapon set, if not all of them.
Those old set bonuses was too OP? Why not change them, adjust them to the new lvl cap we have now? Back in mod 2-3 those sets was amazing, and was worth the effort we put on getting them. But now, the alliance and elven set aren't worth... and seems like with every new mod we'll get armor sets specific for that mod and useless for the rest of the game; and that's, my friends, it's the magic side of the old sets: they were/are good for any situation: pvp, pve, demogorgon and even FBI runs. Why not give to the players something they really feel usefull for the entire game, and not just for one zone?
Even black ice gear was awesome by the time they hit the game. I spent days and weeks farming those HE on IWD just to get the arms and finish the set... and I had both of them!!! [purified and corrupt] Was exhausting, sometimes seems frustrating... but was worth the effort! That's what about all this discussion [IMO]. We want gear and weapons that's seems rewarding enough to make us do and redo those dungeons/raids/skirmishes and still have the feeling that wasn't a waste of time.
Bringing back those old sets on would be a good way to "revive" the game and bring back players that left the game because of all that changes. Some may argue that console players don't have access to those sets, or new players. Removing them from the game or simply turn them to transmutes [like the ones on maze engine store] just make more and more players angry, specially the old ones [like me]. Doing the same dungeon many times just to get seals to buy armor [elven or dragonflight] isn't rewarding... it's boring! BUT, doing the same dungeon many and many times just to get the piece of armor you want seems more rewarding; and if the piece that you got at the end wasn't the one you want, them we just simply could sell it on AH.
So, please listen to the old players and give us more options that's really usefull on entire game, not just on one zone! Bring Back the old dungeons, bring back GG pvp AND pve! This could give a new breathe to the game, and make more and more people happy and wanting to spend real money to get more and more closer to end game and bis gear.
Or you just don't listen to me... that's fine. I'm an old player just wanting to bring back the roleplay and fun I had during first mods...
Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
'Building multiple unique set bonus powers per tier per class to provide interesting choices and then ensuring that those bonuses are properly balanced in the sea of variables is incredibly time consuming and would significantly detract from the time we could devote to balancing the existing field of powers and building new bosses and other new content. '
The time spent into decelopping armor sets also reflect how interesting they are. More stats is pretty boring, and I can understand why many people don't seem to be very excited and have claimed they will not bother getting them.
I think spending some time in creating some working armor sets like the ones you destroyed would be a good investment. It would make the grind more exciting and interesting for everyone.
With dreams to be a king, first one should be a man.
matiagronxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 251Arc User
So the time you spent developing fishing activites,running behind pigs and chicken and other irrevelant activites worth more than making this game as it was supposed to be with DUNGEONS, LOOT and SETS that actually mean something...
Nothing stopping you from using the disabled armor set to transmute whatever you wear next, which carries over your dye as well. If it's that important to you, then presumably you'd have carried it forward if you'd had to upgrade before now.
Ed: I do think that recovering armor kits should be implemented across the board, or the AD cost of making them should be re-evaluated. They're too expensive to use cavalierly (thus many players simply don't bother anymore, if they ever did), AD cost was keyed to gobs of Leadership AD, etc. If the game is designed around constant armor replacement, then replacing armor should feel good and not like an enormous imposition.
Agreed. This was one of the many fixed AD cost things they should have addressed after the LS nerf, but never really got around to it. Imo we're still pretty far from done on those AD cost reductions, but its been so long that its easy to lose out hope on the issue.
Next they will be removing other bonuses. You will no longer be able to trust that something you worked hard for or paid money for will not be taken away from you. Next it will be mount bonuses or companion bonuses.
Any great game has a wonderful nostalgia with regard to items that players can no longer obtain. In EverQuest, for instance, the old time players spend 25% of their time chatting about items they got 10 years ago or more. I couldn't imagine the game not having that nostalgia about it. I can't imagine not being able to TRUST NWN in that respect.
Basically, they are saying you will not be rewarded for staying with the game ever! They are only worried about the new players that are spending money with them crying about something they cannot have. They are not looking to keep long time players. That gives me something to think about the next time my VIP runs out.
Next they will be removing other bonuses. You will no longer be able to trust that something you worked hard for or paid money for will not be taken away from you. Next it will be mount bonuses or companion bonuses. Any great game has a wonderful nostalgia with regard to items that players can no longer obtain. In EQ, for instance, the old time players spend 25% of their time chatting about items they got 10 years ago or more. I couldn't imagine the game not having a nostalgia about it. I can't imagine not being able to TRUST NWN in that respect. Basically, they are saying you will not be rewarded for staying with the game ever! They are only worried about the new players that are spending money with them crying about something they cannot have.
To be fair, they are only removing items that are significantly overpowered that are not obtainable anymore (or not obtainable reasonably). Nobody is taking away anyone's "Caturday" titles, or other nostalgia items that they worked for that are no longer available, like the Cloak of Etherealness (think I missed getting that by a couple days).
The gear that is being discussed here was the end game gear of the day, and presented the dev team here with a significant balance challenge because its % based and not fixed damage - therefore any content could be trivialized with it and its power level would forever remain high.
Most games, when the level cap is increased, they make the new gear so much better that using old stuff would be absurd, so leaving it around isn't an issue. ANY game in which there is gear that has been unobtainable for over a year but was still impacting gameplay and design decisions would likely meet the same fate as these sets.
Yes, old players with it get screwed....I feel for them. And yes, you should ALWAYS expect that something might change, and plan accordingly. The more "important" an item is to your class....especially if its a "must have", the more likely it will be changed.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Well... if you want to be really accurate, the are taking a blanket approach to the old set bonuses while only a few of them are strong enough to warrant continuing to use the equipment. There is no "only" about that, whether you support the change or not.
They're also not removing the items, just effectively turning them into the equivalent of the "ruined" items from CN.
inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
Right, so what's next? Maybee all the companion equipment from gateway. All the things that applied to this sotuatoon will apply to that. Lead dev has said he thought they were too powerful, they are no longer available to earn, only to buy in AH and they are so pricey because of the short supply. Hmm where do these things end?
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inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
Sorry for spelling error meant to say situation
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lordseth1985Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 319Arc User
Most games, when the level cap is increased, they make the new gear so much better that using old stuff would be absurd, so leaving it around isn't an issue. ANY game in which there is gear that has been unobtainable for over a year but was still impacting gameplay and design decisions would likely meet the same fate as these sets.
The point is: new sets [elven or drow or the ones from mod10 that I can't remember the name] are just HAMSTER and few people keep using it, or want touse it; also they are so HAMSTER bad that everyone is farming df set like crazy. Even pvp sets are worthless, only prestige, warborn and lionsmane [this last one is so hard to get..] sets are used now. The old version [burning and profound (not that profound from pre-mod 6)] its just a pile of junk.
And about the artifact weapons? jeez, why all of them have the same stats and bonus? really, are the devs and creators so lazy to make a set for each class, like elemental fire ones [the same ones we gained during mod6 after reaching lvl 70 and finishing spinward] or the ones from old castle never [ok, these ones have little difference on stats]?
Really, with this stupid RNG, more and more ppl are upset and cryptic or pwe don't do anything to solve that.
Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
This whole thread is just a joke from devs, no feedback needed and just let those with opinions come in and rant inside. Feedback ignored, as i said why not just let out a notice without asking for feedback.... Opening a thread and do and hear nothing about it sucks.
This whole thread is just a joke from devs, no feedback needed and just let those with opinions come in and rant inside. Feedback ignored, as i said why not just let out a notice without asking for feedback.... Opening a thread and do and hear nothing about it sucks.
This thread is a bunch of the complaint threads merged together. The devs never said they were taking feedback on the nerf, they just informed us why it was happening and left everyone to their own devices.
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inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
S^2 D^2 in NW no consideration at all, next time at least give us a kiss :*
Comments
Super fray can be considered cheese.
AA can be considered cheese.
Pre-mod 10 puppets can be considered cheese.
Pre-mod 10 MF can be considered cheese.
Pre-mod 10 HRs can be considered cheese.
Pre-bubble nerf OPs can be considered cheese.
The list goes on.
If they are kind or sincere enough they can also give a special title like old adventurer or beta explorer to those set holder. I am sure players will be happy about it. Simplying saying "we are going to destroy ur bis favorite set because we feel you should go for new set every mod" doesnt look responsible to your playerbase.
It's like they want to punish players for wanting more stats. That's just mean
People paid millions of AD for these sets on the AH and they were killed without warning.
I know a friend who bought full Highviz for 8million just last month.
Put a voucher vendor system in place so people can trade in their set pieces for valuable goods or currency.
That is fair.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
"They are like turning your full elemental DF gear with 4x major reinforcement kit slotted into a junk salvage from CN without a proper reason"
Spurious argument.
First, you combined the reinforcement kit issue (which we all agree should be removable) with your legacy set argument to make your case. Two separate issues.
Second, Full elemental Dragonflight gear hasn't been around for almost 3 mother-"hamster" years.
Legacy sets have been here almost 3 god-"hamster" years.
Not remotely the same thing.
I've had almost 3 years with my HP, HV and KC. I loved them. I am an expert on them... and I don't mind them leaving.
TLDR
The mechanics of the game today are completely different in too many ways to list here.
Legacy does not fit anymore.
Get over it, dude
Bigger fish to fry here.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
The most fun I ever had in Neverwinter was mastering the seriously difficult boss fights in the original tier 2 dungeons.
The least fun I ever had in Neverwinter was the highly repetitive grind in each module to unlock the new dungeon/skirmish/boons (as you say, EE was the worst of it.)
I got past enough grind to unlock Fangbreaker Island and I have to say, it feels a bit like old times. The dungeon is truly enjoyable for me.
Regarding the set removal - all my original toons have the sets. I don't use them and I think it's perfectly reasonable to remove the set bonus as part of the overall strategy to return end-game content to a challenge of skill more than a challenge of stats.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
@asterdahl While rebalancing powers please also consider control strength / control resist / control immunity. I played Oppressor for a long time after "Control" as in Wizard became an anachronism because I like that play style. I'm sure many others like it as well. In the end, I gave in and went Thaum because things are just immune to control (effectively or absolutely) when it matters most.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
There's a difference between gear becoming naturally obsolete with content progression compared to direct developer nerfing because they feel the sets are OP in FBI.
People with mod 5 set bonuses are either your most tenured/loyal or "rich" players, or both. (They're also most likely your most informed and skillful players if they're running said sets in FBI.)
My final feedback on this topic is it is unfair to intentionally isolate and nerf gear many people are actively using (and/or spent a lot of money on), especially for how long said gear has been around, and not offer ANY form of in-game compensation or exchange.
This game needs more positive and constructive interaction with the community (from both sides). See @amenar class balance threads as a starting point for excellent dev interaction--he listened to the knowledgeable players and incorporated their feedback (while ignoring the distractions). Please do the right thing and keep your players happy. Happy players spend money, and the holiday season is nigh.
Second, I'm really sad about those news... really sad.
I play and support this game since closed beta and one of my best times was back mods 2 and 3 when I grouped with friends and we did a lot of dungeon runs just to get the last piece of our equipment. Or did a lot of tiamat runs to farm currencies just to get the draconic sets. All I wanted was the old sets [updated and tweaked up to lvl 70] and dungeons get back into the game so I and other old players could feel that good sensation and happines doing different dungeons with our friends to get THE armor and weapon set, if not all of them.
Those old set bonuses was too OP? Why not change them, adjust them to the new lvl cap we have now? Back in mod 2-3 those sets was amazing, and was worth the effort we put on getting them. But now, the alliance and elven set aren't worth... and seems like with every new mod we'll get armor sets specific for that mod and useless for the rest of the game; and that's, my friends, it's the magic side of the old sets: they were/are good for any situation: pvp, pve, demogorgon and even FBI runs. Why not give to the players something they really feel usefull for the entire game, and not just for one zone?
Even black ice gear was awesome by the time they hit the game. I spent days and weeks farming those HE on IWD just to get the arms and finish the set... and I had both of them!!! [purified and corrupt] Was exhausting, sometimes seems frustrating... but was worth the effort! That's what about all this discussion [IMO]. We want gear and weapons that's seems rewarding enough to make us do and redo those dungeons/raids/skirmishes and still have the feeling that wasn't a waste of time.
Bringing back those old sets on would be a good way to "revive" the game and bring back players that left the game because of all that changes. Some may argue that console players don't have access to those sets, or new players. Removing them from the game or simply turn them to transmutes [like the ones on maze engine store] just make more and more players angry, specially the old ones [like me]. Doing the same dungeon many times just to get seals to buy armor [elven or dragonflight] isn't rewarding... it's boring! BUT, doing the same dungeon many and many times just to get the piece of armor you want seems more rewarding; and if the piece that you got at the end wasn't the one you want, them we just simply could sell it on AH.
So, please listen to the old players and give us more options that's really usefull on entire game, not just on one zone! Bring Back the old dungeons, bring back GG pvp AND pve! This could give a new breathe to the game, and make more and more people happy and wanting to spend real money to get more and more closer to end game and bis gear.
Or you just don't listen to me... that's fine. I'm an old player just wanting to bring back the roleplay and fun I had during first mods...
'Building multiple unique set bonus powers per tier per class to provide interesting choices and then ensuring that those bonuses are properly balanced in the sea of variables is incredibly time consuming and would significantly detract from the time we could devote to balancing the existing field of powers and building new bosses and other new content. '
The time spent into decelopping armor sets also reflect how interesting they are. More stats is pretty boring, and I can understand why many people don't seem to be very excited and have claimed they will not bother getting them.
I think spending some time in creating some working armor sets like the ones you destroyed would be a good investment. It would make the grind more exciting and interesting for everyone.
Rise to POWER with <House of Power>.
The Exterminator - (NW-DLNXF3BGG)
Obviously we need a little bit of both. And someone has to pay for it.
Rise to POWER with <House of Power>.
The Exterminator - (NW-DLNXF3BGG)
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Any great game has a wonderful nostalgia with regard to items that players can no longer obtain. In EverQuest, for instance, the old time players spend 25% of their time chatting about items they got 10 years ago or more. I couldn't imagine the game not having that nostalgia about it. I can't imagine not being able to TRUST NWN in that respect.
Basically, they are saying you will not be rewarded for staying with the game ever! They are only worried about the new players that are spending money with them crying about something they cannot have. They are not looking to keep long time players. That gives me something to think about the next time my VIP runs out.
The gear that is being discussed here was the end game gear of the day, and presented the dev team here with a significant balance challenge because its % based and not fixed damage - therefore any content could be trivialized with it and its power level would forever remain high.
Most games, when the level cap is increased, they make the new gear so much better that using old stuff would be absurd, so leaving it around isn't an issue. ANY game in which there is gear that has been unobtainable for over a year but was still impacting gameplay and design decisions would likely meet the same fate as these sets.
Yes, old players with it get screwed....I feel for them. And yes, you should ALWAYS expect that something might change, and plan accordingly. The more "important" an item is to your class....especially if its a "must have", the more likely it will be changed.
They're also not removing the items, just effectively turning them into the equivalent of the "ruined" items from CN.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
And about the artifact weapons? jeez, why all of them have the same stats and bonus? really, are the devs and creators so lazy to make a set for each class, like elemental fire ones [the same ones we gained during mod6 after reaching lvl 70 and finishing spinward] or the ones from old castle never [ok, these ones have little difference on stats]?
Really, with this stupid RNG, more and more ppl are upset and cryptic or pwe don't do anything to solve that.