Those sets were free from Tiamat and Heralds Mod 5. They did not cost millions. I paid millions for my HRs and TRs GG armor sets though, guess I am just out of luck cuz they have lousy bonuses.
Me nether, but I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. Losing millions isn't good....
Well maybe I should just start calling for nerfs to legendary mounts. I dont have one and cant seem to get one yet many are running around with multiples. Lol
Yet all I see is "wah wah wah nerf these sets". Keep telling yourself it's not a nerf thread, maybe if you do it long enough you will convince yourself.
Bro, its likely Everfrost damage will render these sets obsolete. There may be a few good enough to pull it off but I imagine it wont be many and in the beginning that person will likely force others in the team to make up that compensation meaning the rest of the team will probably say, "put on your gear with hit point please."
Maybe eventually they will make a comeback but that will be a ways off.
If they were not broken and overperforming, they would not be used and this debate would not be happening. So......
High Prophet and High Vizier are as good as the wearer's team. If they're already OP, removing the sets really isn't going to change much. Besides, performance groups already lost a huge chunk due to ITF's change, which was a way bigger buff than those sets. Orcus is already a joke even without the set, and people wearing em might likely die super hard in the new dungeon.
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ichimaruginxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 230Arc User
People have been saying with each module that the sets will go extinct due to some reason, like with the low HP on the sets. The SH HP boon solved that. They will never quit being viable regardless of what is thrown at them, barring another level cap increase. Even that might not even help.lol
1. Player needs a guild which has the HP boon decently levelled up OR being able to run CN etc at 40k hp. 2. Player needs to have the KC/HP set which either they got from AH (Spending millions) OR that they didn't salvage it somehow (stopped dropping almost 5 mods ago). 3. Player needs to be either a GF or a DC. Which constitute of a MINORITY. 4. Add those 3 criterias together and see how plausible your call for a nerf for this set is when there are so many other MORE pressing issues that should be addressed.
I daresay, you can try running CN with that amount of HP and see how "easy" it is, especially with a team that's NOT overperforming. Not many are willing or have the skill to wear those sets even if they have them. If the team is already overperforming, adding those sets on top of it won't make a big difference. But if it's underperforming, it is almost impossible to wear those sets. A set that adds a 30% dps increase (As @thefabricant has demonstrated) is just about as good as Break the Spirit encounter from a DC. It is NOT better than ITF.
Playing with a 40k hp when the norm safety margin is around 80k hp is not as ideal as it seemed, especially for GFs that needed to tank and DCs that needed to be alive to heal. Please check your facts and refrain from putting everything under the magnifying glass when it's just an ant.
I wear the set on my main (GF) when I group up with guildmates/friends that have high gearscore. When I pug I do not usually wear them as it is random who will be in the group and what gear they have. I still pug a lot as I was guildless for a year or so when the game first came out so helping pug's through instances has always been a pleasure for me (main was DC when game released). That being said I have never seen "looking for DC, must have HP!" or "looking for GF, must have KC!" in PE chat. It's not like having these sets is getting you a group over someone that doesn't have it.
I'm sorry people who didn't play when the sets were live don't have a chance to get them (though you still can via AH). But those of us that have been here for years deserve to keep the sets.
These sets do have a *slight* advantage over current sets.
In PvP, these sets have a serious lack of HP and no tenacity either. If you can stay alive in this sets while in pvp, you are much better than I would imagine. Anyone using these old sets in pvp would be super-squishy and easily killed solving the problem of being OP from the set bonuses.
In PVE, the only people whining about this are the people without the sets. Unlike some suggestions here, the sets are Working As Intended. The sets are providing the extra buff/debuff that the set bonus says. Yes, the sets are old, yes, the sets are no longer available as drops; however, they are NOT broken... they are working as they were intended to work.
Do you feel intimidated that someone else in the party might be contributing more? Except for the Fabled SW set, none of these sets will make you top DPS so your epeen can stay intact. PVE is a group experience, and honestly, if someone can use these sets effectively and we can run content a little quicker, let them. I assure you that dungeons are just as unrewarding for people using these sets are they are for people that do not have access to them.
If you feel that these sets are "broken" don't party with people using them... its a simple solution. People are not earning any vast riches from the use of these sets, they only make content slightly easier, assuming they can survive with half the hit points, and with power creep the way it is, the content is easy even if you do not use them.
Please stop your whining and grow up. The only reason left for people to complain is if they do not have the gear... if you need to cry, whine to your mommy for not letting you play the game 2 years ago... because after all she should have known that you were a big boy/girl then.
Do you feel intimidated that someone else in the party might be contributing more? Except for the Fabled SW set, none of these sets will make you top DPS so your epeen can stay intact. PVE is a group experience, and honestly, if someone can use these sets effectively and we can run content a little quicker, let them. I assure you that dungeons are just as unrewarding for people using these sets are they are for people that do not have access to them.
It has nothing to do with that. In the context of the latest nerfs it makes no sense to leave the set bonuses. They felt the need to nerf Tide of Iron when it confers an 18% increase to party damage (and only on single target) but somehow a 30% increase is fine?
As this is a somewhat of a divisive issue I wanted to give everyone a heads up that we will be removing pre-Module 6 set bonuses with the release of Storm King's Thunder: Sea of Moving Ice.
First I'm going to preview an upcoming patchnote that addresses the change:
Removal of Legacy Set Bonuses As part of our efforts to reign in runaway power sources we have removed all set bonuses from level 60 equipment that has been unobtainable since the release of Module 6: Elemental Evil. During the release of Module 6 these set bonuses were left in game with the intent that they would gradually fade out of use. However, data has shown that these sets continue to contribute to some of the fastest content runtimes.
Because there is also a tremendous amount of runaway survivability available to adventurers in groups, the downside of many classes wearing these level 60 sets is minimal. With the release of a new highly difficult endgame trial, we would like everyone to start on the same footing regardless of whether they played before Module 6.
We believe those in possession of these sets have gotten substantial use out of them and we ask you for your understanding with this adjustment.
The above patch note more or less covers all the bases, but as this is a hot button issue for the small number of players this change affects, as well as for those engaged in our endgame without these sets, I'd like to talk a bit more about why the change is happening and why now.
The evergreen nature of these set bonuses is counter to our design for equipment. Currently, we have a lot of systems wherein items remain useful on the same scale as others in that system for long periods: companions, mounts, enchantments, etc. Equipment is not one of those systems. We'd like the lifetime of a piece of equipment for a vanguard endgame player to be on the order of months, possibly close to a year assuming some amount of upgrading. Many of the sets being hit by this change have been around for over 2 years. Even in their inception they were not intended to be best in slot for this long.
With a set this good it is difficult to make a new rewards exciting. Obviously once you reach the top of endgame, we don't want to diminish earning a new piece of equipment because you are replacing it every few weeks. However, we also want to be able to release new equipment that is exciting to obtain and lets you challenge newer and more difficult content. If a 2 year old set of equipment is still the best in the game, there's not nearly as much to be excited about with a new set, even if the old set is out of your reach.
Powers like those found on these sets make creating enjoyable and balanced content extremely difficult. The bonus power some of these sets grant is completely unclamped. There are a lot of buffs and debuffs in Neverwinter that are percent based and stack with one another, leading to absolutely astounding feats of damage and survivability. Ideally fights and endgame are a test of player skill with better equipment allowing for more room for error. As it is, the difference in difficulty from one group to another depends largely on what buffs and debuffs they are stacking. Runaway damage bonuses can make content trivial regardless of player skill or the technical challenge presented by an encounter. We continue to make powers adjustments with fun content in mind, and these set bonuses are not the first or last of such changes.
These sets are broken in situations where survivability is not an issue. Many arguments against removing these set bonuses propose that they are impractical to use in many situations because they fail to grant the survivability of newer sets. It is inferred that using these sets requires a much higher player skill. While this may be true in some situations, these are not the situations where these sets are out of hand. In group content with a healer and a tank, survivability right now is exceptionally high. This has created an atmosphere where damage values by necessity are extremely high, making the life of most non-tanks very binary. In other words, survivability in these situations is a non-issue and the benefit is just too strong.
Our queue data is being skewed by the existence of these sets. Despite claims to the contrary, data shows that the fastest groups completing Fangbreaker are in fact running these sets. Currently our fastest recorded time in Fangbreaker is 16 minutes and 37 seconds. This is exceptionally below our average and median runtimes. As you may be able to guess the cleric in that group was running High Prophet while the wizard was running High Vizier. As long as our data is thus skewed by sets that are no longer obtainable, it is very difficult for us to accurately balance rewards. While we never balance for the absolute fastest runs this skew is so large that it brings down our averages. Eliminating all groups running these sets from our data would be time consuming, in addition, in cases where items are flowing into the economy, these sets will increase that rate significantly over what was expected.
Hopefully for those of you who are affected by this change can have a stronger appreciation for why we're making it. We ask for your understanding and believe that with these changes we can continue to build a better game for everyone.
Comments
Yet all I see is "wah wah wah nerf these sets". Keep telling yourself it's not a nerf thread, maybe if you do it long enough you will convince yourself.
Maybe eventually they will make a comeback but that will be a ways off.
That does not equate to imbalance.
2. Player needs to have the KC/HP set which either they got from AH (Spending millions) OR that they didn't salvage it somehow (stopped dropping almost 5 mods ago).
3. Player needs to be either a GF or a DC. Which constitute of a MINORITY.
4. Add those 3 criterias together and see how plausible your call for a nerf for this set is when there are so many other MORE pressing issues that should be addressed.
I daresay, you can try running CN with that amount of HP and see how "easy" it is, especially with a team that's NOT overperforming. Not many are willing or have the skill to wear those sets even if they have them. If the team is already overperforming, adding those sets on top of it won't make a big difference. But if it's underperforming, it is almost impossible to wear those sets. A set that adds a 30% dps increase (As @thefabricant has demonstrated) is just about as good as Break the Spirit encounter from a DC. It is NOT better than ITF.
Playing with a 40k hp when the norm safety margin is around 80k hp is not as ideal as it seemed, especially for GFs that needed to tank and DCs that needed to be alive to heal. Please check your facts and refrain from putting everything under the magnifying glass when it's just an ant.
Join Now! - Infernal Paragons , The Infernal Alliance
I'm sorry people who didn't play when the sets were live don't have a chance to get them (though you still can via AH). But those of us that have been here for years deserve to keep the sets.
In PvP, these sets have a serious lack of HP and no tenacity either. If you can stay alive in this sets while in pvp, you are much better than I would imagine. Anyone using these old sets in pvp would be super-squishy and easily killed solving the problem of being OP from the set bonuses.
In PVE, the only people whining about this are the people without the sets. Unlike some suggestions here, the sets are Working As Intended. The sets are providing the extra buff/debuff that the set bonus says. Yes, the sets are old, yes, the sets are no longer available as drops; however, they are NOT broken... they are working as they were intended to work.
Do you feel intimidated that someone else in the party might be contributing more? Except for the Fabled SW set, none of these sets will make you top DPS so your epeen can stay intact. PVE is a group experience, and honestly, if someone can use these sets effectively and we can run content a little quicker, let them. I assure you that dungeons are just as unrewarding for people using these sets are they are for people that do not have access to them.
If you feel that these sets are "broken" don't party with people using them... its a simple solution. People are not earning any vast riches from the use of these sets, they only make content slightly easier, assuming they can survive with half the hit points, and with power creep the way it is, the content is easy even if you do not use them.
Please stop your whining and grow up. The only reason left for people to complain is if they do not have the gear... if you need to cry, whine to your mommy for not letting you play the game 2 years ago... because after all she should have known that you were a big boy/girl then.
Murphster - SS CW | Jennsen Rahl - MoF CW
Taarna - GWF
Eowyn - Protector OP | Leela - Devoted OP
Mara Jade - TR
Leeloo - Tempt SW | Kahlan Amnell - Fury SW | Galadriel - Damnation SW
Sturm Nightblade - GF
First I'm going to preview an upcoming patchnote that addresses the change: The above patch note more or less covers all the bases, but as this is a hot button issue for the small number of players this change affects, as well as for those engaged in our endgame without these sets, I'd like to talk a bit more about why the change is happening and why now.
The evergreen nature of these set bonuses is counter to our design for equipment. Currently, we have a lot of systems wherein items remain useful on the same scale as others in that system for long periods: companions, mounts, enchantments, etc. Equipment is not one of those systems. We'd like the lifetime of a piece of equipment for a vanguard endgame player to be on the order of months, possibly close to a year assuming some amount of upgrading. Many of the sets being hit by this change have been around for over 2 years. Even in their inception they were not intended to be best in slot for this long.
With a set this good it is difficult to make a new rewards exciting. Obviously once you reach the top of endgame, we don't want to diminish earning a new piece of equipment because you are replacing it every few weeks. However, we also want to be able to release new equipment that is exciting to obtain and lets you challenge newer and more difficult content. If a 2 year old set of equipment is still the best in the game, there's not nearly as much to be excited about with a new set, even if the old set is out of your reach.
Powers like those found on these sets make creating enjoyable and balanced content extremely difficult. The bonus power some of these sets grant is completely unclamped. There are a lot of buffs and debuffs in Neverwinter that are percent based and stack with one another, leading to absolutely astounding feats of damage and survivability. Ideally fights and endgame are a test of player skill with better equipment allowing for more room for error. As it is, the difference in difficulty from one group to another depends largely on what buffs and debuffs they are stacking. Runaway damage bonuses can make content trivial regardless of player skill or the technical challenge presented by an encounter. We continue to make powers adjustments with fun content in mind, and these set bonuses are not the first or last of such changes.
These sets are broken in situations where survivability is not an issue. Many arguments against removing these set bonuses propose that they are impractical to use in many situations because they fail to grant the survivability of newer sets. It is inferred that using these sets requires a much higher player skill. While this may be true in some situations, these are not the situations where these sets are out of hand. In group content with a healer and a tank, survivability right now is exceptionally high. This has created an atmosphere where damage values by necessity are extremely high, making the life of most non-tanks very binary. In other words, survivability in these situations is a non-issue and the benefit is just too strong.
Our queue data is being skewed by the existence of these sets. Despite claims to the contrary, data shows that the fastest groups completing Fangbreaker are in fact running these sets. Currently our fastest recorded time in Fangbreaker is 16 minutes and 37 seconds. This is exceptionally below our average and median runtimes. As you may be able to guess the cleric in that group was running High Prophet while the wizard was running High Vizier. As long as our data is thus skewed by sets that are no longer obtainable, it is very difficult for us to accurately balance rewards. While we never balance for the absolute fastest runs this skew is so large that it brings down our averages. Eliminating all groups running these sets from our data would be time consuming, in addition, in cases where items are flowing into the economy, these sets will increase that rate significantly over what was expected.
Hopefully for those of you who are affected by this change can have a stronger appreciation for why we're making it. We ask for your understanding and believe that with these changes we can continue to build a better game for everyone.