Is there any reimbursement or at least a special npc to withdraw our reinforcement kits? So many days over and what i see from devs are "This is our final decision, yeah we gonna remove it, u have to switch your gear every mod so we will destroy it, accept it or quit".
This is really bad, you are like turning our legendary artifact weapon into the junk weapon salvage from CN. Anyway, i had accepted the fact NW diversity is dead and everyone is going to use same armor and same weapon every mod due to BALANCE. I dont expect much, but at least let us retrieve back the major reinforcement kit from our lvl 60 sets. They are not cheap at all.
@asterdahl, why you guys open a feedback thread but ignore all feedbacks from player? If you guys just want to force-remove the lvl 60 set bonuses just inform and do so, u guys dont need to do extra work to ask for our feedback and then ignore those feedbacks, speechless...
This discussion is pointless. MMOs are constantly moving and if you expect some sort of "compensation" you're playing the wrong genre. It's not that I don't get why people are nervous and angry. I also think you need to overhaul gear way too fast in this game. But it's free-2-play and the devs need to monetize grind. That's why there can't be standstill ever. It's not only that the new weapons are better than the old ones, they come with a completely different grind. You can still use RPs of course, but no longer the Marks you have stored. No insta-upgrade for anyone. Go grind again, sorry.
Where I would agree is that you want to add diversity over advancement. Why not introduce vastly different stat distributions for some classes? Or very specific set bonuses for some builds? This would keep the game moving without the necessity to change gear each and every mod.
inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
Armor reinforcement removal is a great idea, that should have happened long ago for every set, especially when you expect us to swap armor pieces 3 times every mod. It's been requested before, this would be a great time to do it, also we shold get somthing for any dyes and transmute on the pieces. Your idea that because the pieces have been in the game so long we have reeped all the benefits out of them that we deserve and that you don't need to give any other consideration as to making this right with us is flawed, lazy and show lack of respect for your players. Please try a little harder.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited October 2016
Nothing stopping you from using the disabled armor set to transmute whatever you wear next, which carries over your dye as well. If it's that important to you, then presumably you'd have carried it forward if you'd had to upgrade before now.
Ed: I do think that recovering armor kits should be implemented across the board, or the AD cost of making them should be re-evaluated. They're too expensive to use cavalierly (thus many players simply don't bother anymore, if they ever did), AD cost was keyed to gobs of Leadership AD, etc. If the game is designed around constant armor replacement, then replacing armor should feel good and not like an enormous imposition.
Well here's the thing, the set is salvageable so, why would I want to loose even more using it to transmute
If you're like me, it's because your HP, HV, and KC sets are transmuted to rare/inaccessible transmutes and are painted with rare and expensive colors.
I agree that there should be a compensation. Because the sets WERE available for purchase on the AH this entire time. And because when you take away a set bonus that's deemed too powerful (a developer error) you shouldn't punish your player base for it.
The argument that "you got a lot of value out of it" isn't really serious in my mind. The same holds true for any of the other items that they HAVE compensated folks for. Besides, it's wrong to treat your customers this way on principle. Can you imagine this kind of response in any other industry (outside of F2P games)?
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
Sorry kid, your wrong. I shouldn't need to be replacing a set that was working as intended, ever. If I choose to use that set far beyond it's intended lifespan, I have to deal with it's shortcomings such as its very low hitpoints. If I am forced to throw the set away because it's bonuses have been nerfed in order to remove it from the game, Then I should get somthing for it to make it right. Now if you really care about the issue feel free to respond, you usually have insightful things to say, but if your only posting so you can reach a new record for number of posts please move on, quantity doesn't equal quality.
inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
Why the sets were not broken, just old, did you ever get to use one, they really aren't as game breaking as you think, you get to die a lot. get your HP down to 35k and go run etos. You might get a fresh perspective.
Like what i said, the issue is not asking for special reward or not, they are like turning your full elemental DF gear with 4x major reinforcement kit slotted into a junk salvage from CN without a proper reason. I seriously dont think saving 1 minute from dungeon runs at the cost of stat and hp lost while running a special build for not dying is forbidden. Even if devs dont like us saving that pity 1 min they can at least temporary introduce a npc that unslot armor kits from those sets.
If they are kind or sincere enough they can also give a special title like old adventurer or beta explorer to those set holder. I am sure players will be happy about it. Simplying saying "we are going to destroy ur bis favorite set because we feel you should go for new set every mod" doesnt look responsible to your playerbase.
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inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
As far as I know the set (HP)isn't bugged, I know it performs well, but that's not the same thing. Looks to me that most posts at the beginning of the thread were nothing more than people complaining to devs to nerf the other classes that were outperforming them, the(If I can't be a cheerleader, no one can be a cheerleader) argument. And others complaining they couldn't obtain the set, though they could have purchased the set on the AH, just didn't want to work for it.
They really need a way to make reinforcement kits reusable. I agree that it sucks to basically throw out at least 500k worth of kits for ANY reason. Be it normal gear progression or set boni nerfs..
It's like they want to punish players for wanting more stats. That's just mean
People paid millions of AD for these sets on the AH and they were killed without warning. I know a friend who bought full Highviz for 8million just last month.
Put a voucher vendor system in place so people can trade in their set pieces for valuable goods or currency. That is fair.
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
@jazzfong "They are like turning your full elemental DF gear with 4x major reinforcement kit slotted into a junk salvage from CN without a proper reason"
Spurious argument.
First, you combined the reinforcement kit issue (which we all agree should be removable) with your legacy set argument to make your case. Two separate issues.
Second, Full elemental Dragonflight gear hasn't been around for almost 3 mother-"hamster" years.
Legacy sets have been here almost 3 god-"hamster" years.
Not remotely the same thing.
I've had almost 3 years with my HP, HV and KC. I loved them. I am an expert on them... and I don't mind them leaving.
TLDR
The mechanics of the game today are completely different in too many ways to list here. Legacy does not fit anymore.
Get over it, dude
Bigger fish to fry here.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
They really need a way to make reinforcement kits reusable. I agree that it sucks to basically throw out at least 500k worth of kits for ANY reason. Be it normal gear progression or set boni nerfs..
It's like they want to punish players for wanting more stats. That's just mean
^^^ This, and since they are already (somewhat) coded as enchants, it shouldn't be very difficult to make them removable...
Couple that newfound sense of confidence in making these sorts of nerfs and changes with the fact that in Module 10 with Fangbreaker we introduced a new tier of difficulty—one where bosses are designed to be longer fights that aim to test adventurers mechanically as well as statistically—and that is essentially the genesis of how this change came to be.
The most fun I ever had in Neverwinter was mastering the seriously difficult boss fights in the original tier 2 dungeons.
The least fun I ever had in Neverwinter was the highly repetitive grind in each module to unlock the new dungeon/skirmish/boons (as you say, EE was the worst of it.)
I got past enough grind to unlock Fangbreaker Island and I have to say, it feels a bit like old times. The dungeon is truly enjoyable for me.
Regarding the set removal - all my original toons have the sets. I don't use them and I think it's perfectly reasonable to remove the set bonus as part of the overall strategy to return end-game content to a challenge of skill more than a challenge of stats.
+1 this.. I don't think a single enemy in SKT can be controlled by any of my "control" wizards moves. Entangle grasp/Frozen/Stealtime/etc/etc/etc
You're getting confused by a UI error. The class is called "DPS Wizard"
@asterdahl While rebalancing powers please also consider control strength / control resist / control immunity. I played Oppressor for a long time after "Control" as in Wizard became an anachronism because I like that play style. I'm sure many others like it as well. In the end, I gave in and went Thaum because things are just immune to control (effectively or absolutely) when it matters most.
How about 8 million for a set that doesn't drop anymore and still gives you an edge?? Your forgetting about the rarity of these unbound sets now. If they were accessible, how expensive do you think be?? Even when the market was flooded with them HV still went for a chunk of change, not 8 million, but it was way more expensive than any other CW set... rarity is what drive that price now....
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inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
"One assumes", exactly the point, your assuming.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Please focus on stating your own opinion rather than criticizing, without supporting facts, what others have said and always remain respectful. It is useful to leave this thread open to allow everyone to share their thoughts. Please keep the discussion positive.
The facts are the devs are using FBI as a benchmark to determine "OP" game mechanics. This is a solid foundation to work with.
There's a difference between gear becoming naturally obsolete with content progression compared to direct developer nerfing because they feel the sets are OP in FBI.
People with mod 5 set bonuses are either your most tenured/loyal or "rich" players, or both. (They're also most likely your most informed and skillful players if they're running said sets in FBI.)
My final feedback on this topic is it is unfair to intentionally isolate and nerf gear many people are actively using (and/or spent a lot of money on), especially for how long said gear has been around, and not offer ANY form of in-game compensation or exchange.
This game needs more positive and constructive interaction with the community (from both sides). See @amenar class balance threads as a starting point for excellent dev interaction--he listened to the knowledgeable players and incorporated their feedback (while ignoring the distractions). Please do the right thing and keep your players happy. Happy players spend money, and the holiday season is nigh.
Comments
This is really bad, you are like turning our legendary artifact weapon into the junk weapon salvage from CN. Anyway, i had accepted the fact NW diversity is dead and everyone is going to use same armor and same weapon every mod due to BALANCE. I dont expect much, but at least let us retrieve back the major reinforcement kit from our lvl 60 sets. They are not cheap at all.
@asterdahl, why you guys open a feedback thread but ignore all feedbacks from player? If you guys just want to force-remove the lvl 60 set bonuses just inform and do so, u guys dont need to do extra work to ask for our feedback and then ignore those feedbacks, speechless...
Where I would agree is that you want to add diversity over advancement. Why not introduce vastly different stat distributions for some classes? Or very specific set bonuses for some builds? This would keep the game moving without the necessity to change gear each and every mod.
Ed: I do think that recovering armor kits should be implemented across the board, or the AD cost of making them should be re-evaluated. They're too expensive to use cavalierly (thus many players simply don't bother anymore, if they ever did), AD cost was keyed to gobs of Leadership AD, etc. If the game is designed around constant armor replacement, then replacing armor should feel good and not like an enormous imposition.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I agree that there should be a compensation. Because the sets WERE available for purchase on the AH this entire time. And because when you take away a set bonus that's deemed too powerful (a developer error) you shouldn't punish your player base for it.
The argument that "you got a lot of value out of it" isn't really serious in my mind. The same holds true for any of the other items that they HAVE compensated folks for. Besides, it's wrong to treat your customers this way on principle. Can you imagine this kind of response in any other industry (outside of F2P games)?
Saying this particular one is special is a red herring.
If anything, it's a quality of life issue, and not a legacy set issue.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Now if you really care about the issue feel free to respond, you usually have insightful things to say, but if your only posting so you can reach a new record for number of posts please move on, quantity doesn't equal quality.
Super fray can be considered cheese.
AA can be considered cheese.
Pre-mod 10 puppets can be considered cheese.
Pre-mod 10 MF can be considered cheese.
Pre-mod 10 HRs can be considered cheese.
Pre-bubble nerf OPs can be considered cheese.
The list goes on.
If they are kind or sincere enough they can also give a special title like old adventurer or beta explorer to those set holder. I am sure players will be happy about it. Simplying saying "we are going to destroy ur bis favorite set because we feel you should go for new set every mod" doesnt look responsible to your playerbase.
It's like they want to punish players for wanting more stats. That's just mean
People paid millions of AD for these sets on the AH and they were killed without warning.
I know a friend who bought full Highviz for 8million just last month.
Put a voucher vendor system in place so people can trade in their set pieces for valuable goods or currency.
That is fair.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
"They are like turning your full elemental DF gear with 4x major reinforcement kit slotted into a junk salvage from CN without a proper reason"
Spurious argument.
First, you combined the reinforcement kit issue (which we all agree should be removable) with your legacy set argument to make your case. Two separate issues.
Second, Full elemental Dragonflight gear hasn't been around for almost 3 mother-"hamster" years.
Legacy sets have been here almost 3 god-"hamster" years.
Not remotely the same thing.
I've had almost 3 years with my HP, HV and KC. I loved them. I am an expert on them... and I don't mind them leaving.
TLDR
The mechanics of the game today are completely different in too many ways to list here.
Legacy does not fit anymore.
Get over it, dude
Bigger fish to fry here.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
The most fun I ever had in Neverwinter was mastering the seriously difficult boss fights in the original tier 2 dungeons.
The least fun I ever had in Neverwinter was the highly repetitive grind in each module to unlock the new dungeon/skirmish/boons (as you say, EE was the worst of it.)
I got past enough grind to unlock Fangbreaker Island and I have to say, it feels a bit like old times. The dungeon is truly enjoyable for me.
Regarding the set removal - all my original toons have the sets. I don't use them and I think it's perfectly reasonable to remove the set bonus as part of the overall strategy to return end-game content to a challenge of skill more than a challenge of stats.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
@asterdahl While rebalancing powers please also consider control strength / control resist / control immunity. I played Oppressor for a long time after "Control" as in Wizard became an anachronism because I like that play style. I'm sure many others like it as well. In the end, I gave in and went Thaum because things are just immune to control (effectively or absolutely) when it matters most.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
There's a difference between gear becoming naturally obsolete with content progression compared to direct developer nerfing because they feel the sets are OP in FBI.
People with mod 5 set bonuses are either your most tenured/loyal or "rich" players, or both. (They're also most likely your most informed and skillful players if they're running said sets in FBI.)
My final feedback on this topic is it is unfair to intentionally isolate and nerf gear many people are actively using (and/or spent a lot of money on), especially for how long said gear has been around, and not offer ANY form of in-game compensation or exchange.
This game needs more positive and constructive interaction with the community (from both sides). See @amenar class balance threads as a starting point for excellent dev interaction--he listened to the knowledgeable players and incorporated their feedback (while ignoring the distractions). Please do the right thing and keep your players happy. Happy players spend money, and the holiday season is nigh.