Evasive Maneuvers: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 13/16/19% (down from 15/18/22%)
Night Warrior: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 8/12/16% (down from 10/15/20%)
Way of the Warrior: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 12/16/20% (down from 15/20/25%)
Lightning Reflexes: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 25/32.5/40% (down from 30/40/50%)
Veteran Rewards:
Veteran Rewards now unlock immediately for Lifetime Subscribers.
Please format any bugs you find in the following format: Bug
Where it happens
What happens
What? Nerfing LR to dodge even less? Why?! Seriously, why would you nerf it like that? You just made it so R3 LR has less than a 50/50 chance to dodge an attack! Where is this lightning reflexes it's name suggests it to be?
Not only that, you keep nerfing it's dodge chance, but don't raise it's avoidance rating, so you can actually DODGE things. You don't dodge, you get a chance at taking less damage.
How about buffing up it's avoidance rating, so you take NO damage when you manage to dodge something 40% of the time.
Fine with the EM nerf, would have preferred 20% at R3, but no worries, but the more and more I look at it, if this is about nerfing Dodge, why not just roll up INV, take EM gear up for dodge?
laughinxan seemed to want that extra 3% to achieve 60% dodge chance without dodge boosting powers or better gear, so I suggested the spec trees. I know their dodge boosts are laughable by themselves.
In response to your comments on Fluidity: read ayonachan's posts in the Dodge/Crit Preview Dev Blog thread.
Now, I don't think that it's something super serious or required, but it would be nice...
Are we getting a free respec based on these changes?
Many characters were built around being able to reach decent dodge numbers with gear, and their powers pretty much revolved around that, and this does provide quite the need to respec for many people.
So you'll just refuse to grind a bit to let your gear bring you above a standing 60% dodge chance?
When I used LR, both back in the day and recently, 60/80 dodge/avoid was enough to trivialize the game. I achieved that without much effort, and the only heals I had were BCR and Resurgence.
I will leave the actual testing to do the rest of the arguing for me, be it right or wrong.
This new batch of dodge nerfs is not well thought out. 75-78% dodge for a defensive passive was ideal, especially for an AT that doesn't have access to Evasive Maneuvers.
Devs, you do know there are better ways to nerf free forms stacking LR and Evasive Maneuvers, right?
Here's my suggestion. First, revert all the passives back to what they were with the last pass. Second, nerf Evasive Maneuvers down to 7/10/13%. Third, buff Quarry to 20% with rank 3.
Free forms stacking NW/LR/WotW with Evasive Maneuvers would see a 9% nerf in dodge. 91% would be the cap with a LR/EM build. The one passive least affected by the EM nerf would be Quarry, as it should be. EM is meant to compensate Quarry in the Archery framework.
I just find it silly to nerf the passives when they seemed fairly balanced with the last pass, especially from an ATs point of view. Evasive Maneuvers granting more dodge than Quarry, and almost as much dodge as NW and WotW, is just plain stupid. That's the real problem, not the passives.
I honestly think they don't even need to nerf the dodge powers, but instead just add mobs to the game that debuff your dodge ratings a bunch. It wouldn't be hard when there is already a mob that reduces your dodge chance. It'd be far cleaner, better, and reward actually thinking ahead a little and scanning ahead for mobs like that posing a danger.
I think the dodge nerfs were more about correcting the problem of damage tanks existing in the game, which is understandable.
LR, the defensive passive, stayed at top, as it should, with a decent amount of dodge and avoidance. 75-78% dodge to me, was ideal. Highly reliable, yet some minimal spikes in taking damage. Knocking it down to 65-68% is getting closer to that 50% mark, when things become so-so in defense. I don't like the idea of a defensive passive being near so-so. Maybe for a offensive passive, that's fine. I know I'm making it sound more doom and gloom than it really is, but the recent nerf was just unnecessary, especially when there are better alternatives to fixing the problem.
1. Defiant - Set Damage Resistance Per Stack plus energy every time a stack is gained or refreshed. If you gear for dodge you can get even more damage reduced on chance.
2. Invulnerability - Damage Resistance plus a flat damage reduction to all damage taken. If you gear for dodge you can get even more damage reduced on chance.
3. Regeneration - Start with damage resistance and gain so much health with every tick that gets stronger the more damage you take. If you gear for dodge you can get even more damage reduced on chance.
4. Lightning Reflexes - Sometimes gain the benefit of dodge and maybe if you gear for it you can increase that chance slightly further.
~One of these things is not like the other! One of these things is no longer a tank!~ Or at least a passive I want to use for any of my characters.
PLAYERS! Do not buy LTS based on this new info until it goes live. Do not buy into ANYTHING until it goes live! We made that mistake with Telepathy before.
Haven't gotten to test this stuff yet as the server is currently down, but I will say this...you're really not supposed to be pairing LR with dodge gear. LR tanking is usually best accomplished with high defense gear and good use of specs to get defense even higher. This gives you at the least a decent defense for when LR doesn't kick in. The Armadillo secondaries with their set bonus can also be useful in this regard, for a little more solid damage resistance.
Those changes are amazing, well thought out and explained :rolleyes:.
I especially appreciate how much effort they put in so that everyone affected by their changes does not feel like their current gear/builds were severely nerfed nor have the impression the money they spent was/is completely wasted (thank you luck-boxes, the game would not be the same without you!)
I mean think of all the free retcons and the G/new gear we get to compensate us, not to mention the new R7+ Mods we get all around the board to help us rebalance our toons.
Furthermore, consider all the spec tree fixes they will flawlessly implement with regards to the rating system. No bug will occur, we are guaranteed that much. (Same for all the passives, no more bugs yay!!!!)
We all have to appreciate how much effort and time Cryptic took to listen to our feedback. Just image if they didn't and push this to live like it was a couple of builds ago. I mean, just think about all the additional dodge we would have had..... urh the horror.
Thank you Cryptic Machine from the bottom of my heart. You treat our feedback with the respect and dignity it deserves especially considering that we test your game for you for FREE. :rolleyes:
Just a quick summary of your (Cryptic's) achievements:
- Day 1 patch (brilliant) (alienated most of the players, never got them back)
- Several Kitchen sink patches (fantastic, who does not like months of bug fixes for things that worked before?) (how many people have left since?)
- On Alert update (oh this one holds a special place in my heart, took more than half a year to fix some of the issues introduced. But it's all good, CO can afford it and well all know it)
- Current nerf bat changes (guess they need to nerf us otherwise they can't sell us new OP gear to be nerfed as well soon)
There is a reason why Defensive Passives are very popular to casual players, especially Invulnerability and Regeneration. (So is Lightning Reflexes because an agile hero is a rather popular theme.)
Defensive passives allows more laid back or lazy play style. It lets players feel heroic being able to stand off with supervillains without having to actively worry about healing and blocking or kiting around.
Yes, nerfing dodge has its merits. Just remember that the casual player's threshold is different from a dev or a hardcore player's.
We keep balancing and moving further away from a low entry into this game to curb abuse when many mechanics at a lower level have yet been looked at to improve the overall experience.
I personally do not wish to see LR having to actively rely on BCR when soloing most of the normal content. I want missing to tap BCR when I'm busy trying to beat up a criminal not be too penalising because I have a defensive passive, the way Defiance, Invulnerability and Regeneration allows.
I have no problems with nerfing EM, because stacking EM requires a very active play style. Very reactive players can easily continue or adjust to another mechanic be it active healing or stacking defense.
I sincerely hope that we are not too focused on dodge that when the results are less than desirable, we are not open to assess other causes of imbalance instead of being too single track minded.
There is a reason why Defensive Passives are very popular to casual players, especially Invulnerability and Regeneration. (So is Lightning Reflexes because an agile hero is a rather popular theme.)
Finally I see someone who actually bothered to bring up other defensive passives for comparison.
Whether it is "hell no the nerf is a nuke!" or "oh go test it out first!", can we at least look at the numbers in comparison to other defensive passives especially the likes of defiance and invulnerability.
Dodge stacking through equipment, specs, powers like EM and lead tempest etc are active choices of play.
Another player can choose to stack defense. Which is more effective, I can't say as I have not been playing for a long time and definitely not been testing. However, it should be important to keep the passives more or less equivalent.
That's the reason I like ayonachan's post, they are always backed by figures and maths.
Evasive Maneuvers: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 13/16/19% (down from 15/18/22%)
Night Warrior: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 8/12/16% (down from 10/15/20%)
Way of the Warrior: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 12/16/20% (down from 15/20/25%)
Lightning Reflexes: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 25/32.5/40% (down from 30/40/50%)
It will break four premium archetypes. The Master, the Specialist, the Fist and the Night Avenger. The Fist is already too squishy, with those changes it will be barely playable.
None of these archetypes has access to Evasive Maneuvers. They can't stack dodge from passive+EM. One of them is tank AT. But will no longer be able to tank.
Passives should not be nerfed that way. It will end with even less players.
Focus more on Evasive Maneuvers, but leave passives as they were in previous update. Think about ATs part of playerbase when making changes. They also are buying keys and vehicles.
It was about making builds mor diverse, yes? But why to take dodge passives instead of Defiance or Invuln? Diversity indeed...
Looks like the devs are fixing some of the problems introduced (or exacerbated) with On Alert.
Precisely.
But few people will see it that way until much later because almost no one tests **** or listens to people who test stuff when and often because others don't. It's look at numbers, do the math (often horribly, see people forgetting escalating reflexes and other things in their "calculations) and complain sight unseen. Couple that with people thinking they are the only one to consider the low end of the spectrum. Yes you, no one else could possibly be considering that or have bothered testing. No one noticed that some of the ATs need a rework either. Nope, this is not something that's even remotely discussed on a regular basis and taken into consideration.
Definently. I hate using them as an example but, blizzard did not get there games to the level of balance they were over night, they did it in very small increments to see how it'd impact gameplay. Changes were small and subtle enough, the only time a big nerf occured was when one side was just over-using a tactic and at the same time winning more than the others for that alone, and they extensively tested and re-tested constantly.
And they had people who were not scrubs testing. I;m feeling we have someone in the dev team who is saying "this is cheap, and imbalanced except my side!" and his build happens to be crappy.
Buahahahaha. You really do put your head in the sand if you honestly believe Blizzard only made small changes and incrementally. Considering how many sweeping changes they made to classes, not small ones but sweeping ones, in expansions alone, let alone in their big updates, saying they did it incrementally is both a lie and false advertising.
From what I remember, LR was able to reach 80% avoidance without even trying before any nerfs. It is most likely still in the ~70% range or higher if you try to boost it any more considering I can still hit over 60% avoid on WotW. I believe anything over 60% avoidance is more than enough, so LR's avoidance definitely puts it in line in my opinion. If others still have problems with it then oh well.
I do not believe Quarry's damage boost was adjusted to "make up" for its hit to dodge. If you ask me, I'd suggest removing the Fair Game advantage and just making it part of Quarry itself if you want to keep it as a more balanced offensive passive.
Maybe make Fair Game a 1 point advantage?
Also, I have a burning desire to make a LR Toon as soon this hits live. And a Marksman.
____________________________________
That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
With 50% at LR r3 and a build copying the powers on The Master AT, you could get to about about 105% dodge chance. That is using LR r3, TK r2, parrry+adv (about 230 dex), con dodge spec and justice dodge gear + 2 dodge mods r7.
So now that is 'only' 95%, I guess CC needs to go on an other power and get TK r3 to get close to 100% dodge chance. With a avoidance of >80% that is still by far the most effective defense you can get (against high damage hits).
And since these changes are supposed to reduce the gap between optimized and 'theme' builds.... As long as there is the adv on ego surge that can increase crit chance by more then 50% and cooldown reduction not having a diminishing return, all these changes are pretty much useless.
This change isn't much of a surprise to me, but I will say that a number of things will have to change powers wise.
Dodge in actual fact was/is a band aid (in some cases) for underperforming powers or builds, it is also a nifty way to survive.
However, having said that such a change will clearly show areas for improvement in the powers system department. Although I don't see such changes happening ASAP, they'll have to happen alongside the dodge changes, too many things can and will go awry with such a change.
Regarding Vet Rewards:
Massive Win. That is all.
Regarding BlazeXFreon Rampage:
- Last time I tested this it was super painful and I don't think I fully understood the ice/lava cage attack (IIRC, you breakout you die, you stay in the hold and you'll explode and kill allies around you.)
- I hope we can get enough ppls on PTS to test however.
I have a question with regards to the Defense stat. From what I understand they are changing the way your Offense stat works as they are changing the critical chance stats to even them out. If that is correct what about the defense stat? It seems that by lowering the dodge chances you are going to make characters more squishy especially AT's with no self heals.
How does a high defense stat factor into these changes if any?
I have a question with regards to the Defense stat. From what I understand they are changing the way your Offense stat works as they are changing the critical chance stats to even them out. If that is correct what about the defense stat? It seems that by lowering the dodge chances you are going to make characters more squishy especially AT's with no self heals.
How does a high defense stat factor into these changes if any?
Thanks
Defense Stat is not being touched at all. I suspect as indicated at the end of the blog post by GMC, a number of changes will have to be implemented and powers (unspecified atm) will need to be altered to allow them to be viable.
Thanks Raven. I have quite a few characters that will probably need re-tooling. I'll have to wait and see how the final changes pan out. Nothing like a little uncertainty in life to make it interesting.
PTS1(Very first PTS Preview Build)
445 Dodge(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 21.1% Dodge Chance.
520(Rank 1 LR) makes 22.5% Dodge chance.
625(Rank 2 LR) makes 24.1% Dodge chance.
749(Rank 3 LR) Makes 25.9% Dodge chance.
520(Rank 1 LR) + 455(two rank 9 gambler's cores in justice gear1) makes 28.6% Dodge chance.
749(Rank 3 LR) + 227 (one rank 9 gambler's core in justice gear1) makes 28.7% Dodge chance.
Rank 1 Quarry(12.5%) +227(one rank 9 gambler's core in justice gear1) makes 29% Dodge chance.
749(Rank 3 LR) + 455 (two rank 9 gambler's cores in justice gear1) makes 30.9% Dodge chance.
Rank 2 Quarry(15%) +227(one rank 9 gambler's core in justice gear1) makes 31.5% Dodge chance.
Rank 3 Quarry(18%) +455(two rank 9 gambler's cores in justice gear1) makes 39.3% Dodge chance.
PTS2(LR changed to flat rate but dodge gear still heavily nerfed)
445 Dodge(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 21.1%
Rank 1 Quarry(8.3%) +455(two rank 9 gambler's cores in justice gear1) makes 29.6%
Rank 3 Quarry(12%) + 455(two rank 9 gambler's cores in justice gear1) makes 33.3%
30%(Rank 1 LR) makes 40%
30%(Rank 1 LR) + 455(two rank 9 gambler's cores in justice gear1) makes 51.3%
50%(Rank 3 LR) makes 60% dodge chance
50%(Rank 3 LR) + 455(two rank 9 gambler's cores in justice gear1) makes 71.3%
PTS3(Previous Build, justice gear stat-nerfed so it will no longer be used but dodge gets a slight tweak)
445 Dodge(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) grants 30.1%
Rank 1 Quarry(8.3%) +445(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 38.4%
30%(Rank 1 LR) makes 40%
Rank 3 Quarry(12%) + 445(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 42.1%
30%(Rank 1 LR) + 445(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 60.1%
50%(Rank 3 LR) makes 60% dodge chance
50%(Rank 3 LR) + 445(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 80.1%
PTS4(Current Build)
445 Dodge grants 30.1%
25%(Rank 1 LR) makes 35%
Rank 1 Quarry(8.3%) +445(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 38.4%
Rank 3 Quarry(12%) + 445(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 42.1%
25%(Rank 1 LR) + 445(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 55.1%
40%(Rank 3 LR) makes 50% dodge chance
40%(Rank 3 LR) + 445(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 70.1%
Still need more of a reason? Well...
I am partially color blind and can't see your red-pink but I know what my red-pink is unless it isn't. Gather 3 of me in a room and we can win a debate over colors.
Is it correct? To us, yes. To you, no.
So opinions are opinions?Stop being redundant you redundant-Renee.
..s-Sooo..what color is...this?!Are you really that fascinated with the imperfections of humans that differ from yourself or are you just bored with how you perceive your world as and are willing to change yourself if only it was a controllable variable that can be reversed at any time to save your own 'perfect' understanding and way of life?
There is a problem with those numbers namely R9 mods. You are basing your argument on something that very few people actually posses. I would suggest using R5-R6 at most R7 mods from now on. The only thing R9 shows is how far you can push things but that is insignificant for most people. Are we balancing this for everyone or are we balancing thing for those who are fulling Geared in Legion's with R9 mods.
Questions is, what can you achieve with something like Mercenary's gear and R5-R7 mods. That should be more representative of the average power of a hero instead of Legion's R9 which is the absolute max you can achieve currently.
There is a problem with those numbers namely R9 mods. You are basing your argument on something that very few people actually posses. I would suggest using R5-R6 at most R7 mods from now on. The only thing R9 shows is how far you can push things but that is insignificant for most people. Are we balancing this for everyone or are we balancing thing for those who are fulling Geared in Legion's with R9 mods.
Questions is, what can you achieve with something like Mercenary's gear and R5-R7 mods. That should be more representative of the average power of a hero instead of Legion's R9 which is the absolute max you can achieve currently.
I see no problems. One can obtain 445 dodge through the combination of spec tree and gear. If they weren't changing elusive monk to a flat rate then that could too be a possibility.
I used 445 dodge because it is the highest from gear that is obtainable. You want to see what the other numbers are like? Fine.
Live Dodge:
Base Dodge is 10%
153 dodge grants 42.5%
292 dodge grants 54.5%
306 Dodge grants 55.3%
445 Dodge grants 61.7%
I see no problems. One can obtain 445 dodge through the combination of spec tree and gear. If they weren't changing elusive monk to a flat rate then that could too be a possibility.
I used 445 dodge because it is the highest from gear that is obtainable. You want to see what the other numbers are like? Fine.
There is a problem with those numbers namely R9 mods. You are basing your argument on something that very few people actually posses. I would suggest using R5-R6 at most R7 mods from now on. The only thing R9 shows is how far you can push things but that is insignificant for most people. Are we balancing this for everyone or are we balancing thing for those who are fulling Geared in Legion's with R9 mods.
Questions is, what can you achieve with something like Mercenary's gear and R5-R7 mods. That should be more representative of the average power of a hero instead of Legion's R9 which is the absolute max you can achieve currently.
I thought Heroic + R5-7 was baseline. Heroic gear is easily acquirable and the reason why Mercenary gear is skipped over unless you are VERY lazy, impatient, broke, or some combination thereof. I do get your point that very few people run R9 mods and those shouldn't used as a baseline though.
Grind for the Grind God! Tokens for the Token Throne!
Comments
What?
Not only that, you keep nerfing it's dodge chance, but don't raise it's avoidance rating, so you can actually DODGE things. You don't dodge, you get a chance at taking less damage.
How about buffing up it's avoidance rating, so you take NO damage when you manage to dodge something 40% of the time.
Fine with the EM nerf, would have preferred 20% at R3, but no worries, but the more and more I look at it, if this is about nerfing Dodge, why not just roll up INV, take EM gear up for dodge?
My response.
Have you even seen what spec trees give for dodge? o.O I haven't even been able to get a 2% increase with the spec trees.
In response to your comments on Fluidity: read ayonachan's posts in the Dodge/Crit Preview Dev Blog thread.
Are we getting a free respec based on these changes?
Many characters were built around being able to reach decent dodge numbers with gear, and their powers pretty much revolved around that, and this does provide quite the need to respec for many people.
When I used LR, both back in the day and recently, 60/80 dodge/avoid was enough to trivialize the game. I achieved that without much effort, and the only heals I had were BCR and Resurgence.
I will leave the actual testing to do the rest of the arguing for me, be it right or wrong.
Don't care, will have Avian pack. Create character called Angry Bird, run around cascading enemies away and palliating the tank.
Buwaha.
Deliciously nutritious!
Devs, you do know there are better ways to nerf free forms stacking LR and Evasive Maneuvers, right?
Here's my suggestion. First, revert all the passives back to what they were with the last pass. Second, nerf Evasive Maneuvers down to 7/10/13%. Third, buff Quarry to 20% with rank 3.
Free forms stacking NW/LR/WotW with Evasive Maneuvers would see a 9% nerf in dodge. 91% would be the cap with a LR/EM build. The one passive least affected by the EM nerf would be Quarry, as it should be. EM is meant to compensate Quarry in the Archery framework.
I just find it silly to nerf the passives when they seemed fairly balanced with the last pass, especially from an ATs point of view. Evasive Maneuvers granting more dodge than Quarry, and almost as much dodge as NW and WotW, is just plain stupid. That's the real problem, not the passives.
I think the dodge nerfs were more about correcting the problem of damage tanks existing in the game, which is understandable.
LR, the defensive passive, stayed at top, as it should, with a decent amount of dodge and avoidance. 75-78% dodge to me, was ideal. Highly reliable, yet some minimal spikes in taking damage. Knocking it down to 65-68% is getting closer to that 50% mark, when things become so-so in defense. I don't like the idea of a defensive passive being near so-so. Maybe for a offensive passive, that's fine. I know I'm making it sound more doom and gloom than it really is, but the recent nerf was just unnecessary, especially when there are better alternatives to fixing the problem.
2. Invulnerability - Damage Resistance plus a flat damage reduction to all damage taken. If you gear for dodge you can get even more damage reduced on chance.
3. Regeneration - Start with damage resistance and gain so much health with every tick that gets stronger the more damage you take. If you gear for dodge you can get even more damage reduced on chance.
4. Lightning Reflexes - Sometimes gain the benefit of dodge and maybe if you gear for it you can increase that chance slightly further.
~One of these things is not like the other! One of these things is no longer a tank!~
Or at least a passive I want to use for any of my characters.
PLAYERS! Do not buy LTS based on this new info until it goes live. Do not buy into ANYTHING until it goes live! We made that mistake with Telepathy before.
I especially appreciate how much effort they put in so that everyone affected by their changes does not feel like their current gear/builds were severely nerfed nor have the impression the money they spent was/is completely wasted (thank you luck-boxes, the game would not be the same without you!)
I mean think of all the free retcons and the G/new gear we get to compensate us, not to mention the new R7+ Mods we get all around the board to help us rebalance our toons.
Furthermore, consider all the spec tree fixes they will flawlessly implement with regards to the rating system. No bug will occur, we are guaranteed that much. (Same for all the passives, no more bugs yay!!!!)
We all have to appreciate how much effort and time Cryptic took to listen to our feedback. Just image if they didn't and push this to live like it was a couple of builds ago. I mean, just think about all the additional dodge we would have had..... urh the horror.
Thank you Cryptic Machine from the bottom of my heart. You treat our feedback with the respect and dignity it deserves especially considering that we test your game for you for FREE. :rolleyes:
Just a quick summary of your (Cryptic's) achievements:
- Day 1 patch (brilliant) (alienated most of the players, never got them back)
- Several Kitchen sink patches (fantastic, who does not like months of bug fixes for things that worked before?) (how many people have left since?)
- On Alert update (oh this one holds a special place in my heart, took more than half a year to fix some of the issues introduced. But it's all good, CO can afford it and well all know it)
- Current nerf bat changes (guess they need to nerf us otherwise they can't sell us new OP gear to be nerfed as well soon)
Love you Cryptic !!! :cool:
Defensive passives allows more laid back or lazy play style. It lets players feel heroic being able to stand off with supervillains without having to actively worry about healing and blocking or kiting around.
Yes, nerfing dodge has its merits. Just remember that the casual player's threshold is different from a dev or a hardcore player's.
We keep balancing and moving further away from a low entry into this game to curb abuse when many mechanics at a lower level have yet been looked at to improve the overall experience.
I personally do not wish to see LR having to actively rely on BCR when soloing most of the normal content. I want missing to tap BCR when I'm busy trying to beat up a criminal not be too penalising because I have a defensive passive, the way Defiance, Invulnerability and Regeneration allows.
I have no problems with nerfing EM, because stacking EM requires a very active play style. Very reactive players can easily continue or adjust to another mechanic be it active healing or stacking defense.
I sincerely hope that we are not too focused on dodge that when the results are less than desirable, we are not open to assess other causes of imbalance instead of being too single track minded.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Finally I see someone who actually bothered to bring up other defensive passives for comparison.
Whether it is "hell no the nerf is a nuke!" or "oh go test it out first!", can we at least look at the numbers in comparison to other defensive passives especially the likes of defiance and invulnerability.
Dodge stacking through equipment, specs, powers like EM and lead tempest etc are active choices of play.
Another player can choose to stack defense. Which is more effective, I can't say as I have not been playing for a long time and definitely not been testing. However, it should be important to keep the passives more or less equivalent.
That's the reason I like ayonachan's post, they are always backed by figures and maths.
It will break four premium archetypes. The Master, the Specialist, the Fist and the Night Avenger. The Fist is already too squishy, with those changes it will be barely playable.
None of these archetypes has access to Evasive Maneuvers. They can't stack dodge from passive+EM. One of them is tank AT. But will no longer be able to tank.
Passives should not be nerfed that way. It will end with even less players.
Focus more on Evasive Maneuvers, but leave passives as they were in previous update. Think about ATs part of playerbase when making changes. They also are buying keys and vehicles.
It was about making builds mor diverse, yes? But why to take dodge passives instead of Defiance or Invuln? Diversity indeed...
Precisely.
But few people will see it that way until much later because almost no one tests **** or listens to people who test stuff when and often because others don't. It's look at numbers, do the math (often horribly, see people forgetting escalating reflexes and other things in their "calculations) and complain sight unseen. Couple that with people thinking they are the only one to consider the low end of the spectrum. Yes you, no one else could possibly be considering that or have bothered testing. No one noticed that some of the ATs need a rework either. Nope, this is not something that's even remotely discussed on a regular basis and taken into consideration.
It gets kind of tired to be brutally honest.
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Buahahahaha. You really do put your head in the sand if you honestly believe Blizzard only made small changes and incrementally. Considering how many sweeping changes they made to classes, not small ones but sweeping ones, in expansions alone, let alone in their big updates, saying they did it incrementally is both a lie and false advertising.
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Maybe make Fair Game a 1 point advantage?
Also, I have a burning desire to make a LR Toon as soon this hits live. And a Marksman.
That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
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So now that is 'only' 95%, I guess CC needs to go on an other power and get TK r3 to get close to 100% dodge chance. With a avoidance of >80% that is still by far the most effective defense you can get (against high damage hits).
And since these changes are supposed to reduce the gap between optimized and 'theme' builds.... As long as there is the adv on ego surge that can increase crit chance by more then 50% and cooldown reduction not having a diminishing return, all these changes are pretty much useless.
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:biggrin:
:biggrin:
:biggrin:
more dodge nerf even for the defensive passives
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This change isn't much of a surprise to me, but I will say that a number of things will have to change powers wise.
Dodge in actual fact was/is a band aid (in some cases) for underperforming powers or builds, it is also a nifty way to survive.
However, having said that such a change will clearly show areas for improvement in the powers system department. Although I don't see such changes happening ASAP, they'll have to happen alongside the dodge changes, too many things can and will go awry with such a change.
Regarding Vet Rewards:
Massive Win. That is all.
Regarding BlazeXFreon Rampage:
- Last time I tested this it was super painful and I don't think I fully understood the ice/lava cage attack (IIRC, you breakout you die, you stay in the hold and you'll explode and kill allies around you.)
- I hope we can get enough ppls on PTS to test however.
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[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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On the PLUS side, it seems like the login not remembering the correct login name seems to be fixed on PTS..
#stealthpatchfixtoLIVEmaybe?
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[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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Lordgar said that they are having issues pushing this PTS, and he would update this thread as soon as its online
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How does a high defense stat factor into these changes if any?
Thanks
Apathy is on the rise, but nobody seems to care.
Thank you, I thought it was a bit odd. I shall await his post
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[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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Defense Stat is not being touched at all. I suspect as indicated at the end of the blog post by GMC, a number of changes will have to be implemented and powers (unspecified atm) will need to be altered to allow them to be viable.
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[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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Apathy is on the rise, but nobody seems to care.
PTS1(Very first PTS Preview Build)
445 Dodge(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 21.1% Dodge Chance.
520(Rank 1 LR) makes 22.5% Dodge chance.
625(Rank 2 LR) makes 24.1% Dodge chance.
749(Rank 3 LR) Makes 25.9% Dodge chance.
520(Rank 1 LR) + 455(two rank 9 gambler's cores in justice gear1) makes 28.6% Dodge chance.
749(Rank 3 LR) + 227 (one rank 9 gambler's core in justice gear1) makes 28.7% Dodge chance.
Rank 1 Quarry(12.5%) +227(one rank 9 gambler's core in justice gear1) makes 29% Dodge chance.
749(Rank 3 LR) + 455 (two rank 9 gambler's cores in justice gear1) makes 30.9% Dodge chance.
Rank 2 Quarry(15%) +227(one rank 9 gambler's core in justice gear1) makes 31.5% Dodge chance.
Rank 3 Quarry(18%) +455(two rank 9 gambler's cores in justice gear1) makes 39.3% Dodge chance.
PTS2(LR changed to flat rate but dodge gear still heavily nerfed)
445 Dodge(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 21.1%
Rank 1 Quarry(8.3%) +455(two rank 9 gambler's cores in justice gear1) makes 29.6%
Rank 3 Quarry(12%) + 455(two rank 9 gambler's cores in justice gear1) makes 33.3%
30%(Rank 1 LR) makes 40%
30%(Rank 1 LR) + 455(two rank 9 gambler's cores in justice gear1) makes 51.3%
50%(Rank 3 LR) makes 60% dodge chance
50%(Rank 3 LR) + 455(two rank 9 gambler's cores in justice gear1) makes 71.3%
PTS3(Previous Build, justice gear stat-nerfed so it will no longer be used but dodge gets a slight tweak)
445 Dodge(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) grants 30.1%
Rank 1 Quarry(8.3%) +445(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 38.4%
30%(Rank 1 LR) makes 40%
Rank 3 Quarry(12%) + 445(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 42.1%
30%(Rank 1 LR) + 445(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 60.1%
50%(Rank 3 LR) makes 60% dodge chance
50%(Rank 3 LR) + 445(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 80.1%
PTS4(Current Build)
445 Dodge grants 30.1%
25%(Rank 1 LR) makes 35%
Rank 1 Quarry(8.3%) +445(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 38.4%
Rank 3 Quarry(12%) + 445(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 42.1%
25%(Rank 1 LR) + 445(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 55.1%
40%(Rank 3 LR) makes 50% dodge chance
40%(Rank 3 LR) + 445(two rank 9 gambler's cores in legion elusive gear) makes 70.1%
Still need more of a reason? Well...
I am partially color blind and can't see your red-pink but I know what my red-pink is unless it isn't. Gather 3 of me in a room and we can win a debate over colors.
Is it correct? To us, yes. To you, no.
So opinions are opinions? Stop being redundant you redundant-Renee.
..s-Sooo..what color is...this?! Are you really that fascinated with the imperfections of humans that differ from yourself or are you just bored with how you perceive your world as and are willing to change yourself if only it was a controllable variable that can be reversed at any time to save your own 'perfect' understanding and way of life?
There is a problem with those numbers namely R9 mods. You are basing your argument on something that very few people actually posses. I would suggest using R5-R6 at most R7 mods from now on. The only thing R9 shows is how far you can push things but that is insignificant for most people. Are we balancing this for everyone or are we balancing thing for those who are fulling Geared in Legion's with R9 mods.
Questions is, what can you achieve with something like Mercenary's gear and R5-R7 mods. That should be more representative of the average power of a hero instead of Legion's R9 which is the absolute max you can achieve currently.
I see no problems. One can obtain 445 dodge through the combination of spec tree and gear. If they weren't changing elusive monk to a flat rate then that could too be a possibility.
I used 445 dodge because it is the highest from gear that is obtainable. You want to see what the other numbers are like? Fine.
Live Dodge:
Base Dodge is 10%
153 dodge grants 42.5%
292 dodge grants 54.5%
306 Dodge grants 55.3%
445 Dodge grants 61.7%
PTS Dodge1(First iteration)
Base Dodge is 10%
76 dodge grants 12.4%
139 dodge grants 14.2%
153 dodge grants 14.6%
292 dodge grants 18%
306 Dodge grants 18.3%
445 Dodge grants 21.1%
PTS Dodge2:(Current)
Base Dodge is 10%
76 dodge grants 15.4%
139 dodge grants 19%
153 dodge grants 19.7%
292 dodge grants 25.5%
306 Dodge grants 26%
382 Dodge grants 28.4%
445 Dodge grants 30.1%
There you go. Insert the flat rates over those if you like.
Heroic gear is easier to obtain than mercenary gear but since people only do alerts I suppose they only have viky or bk gear.
Gambler's Lucky Gem
5 = 127
6 = 133
7 = 143
8 = 148
9 = 153
Since you seem to have the numbers, and I cant get on test, what does avoidance look like?
Dodge is useless without avoidance, and vice versa.
You took my comment personal didn't you?
No you just read it that way.
Live Avoidance:
Base Avoidance is 20%
102 Avoidance grants 52.5%
139 avoidance grants 58.7%
241 avoidance grants 69.5%
353 Avoidance grants 76.3%
374 Avoidance grants 77.2%
PTS Avoidance1:
Base Avoidance is 20%
76 Avoidance grants 43.8%
102 Avoidance grants 49.1%
139 avoidance grants 55%
214 avoidance grants 63.6%
241 avoidance grants 66%
353 Avoidance grants 73.1%
374 Avoidance grants 74.1%
425 Avoidance grants 76.3%
On live, Quarry's Avoidance% per stack of Audacity for rank 2 is 7.5%
On PTS, Quarry's Avoidance% per stack of Audacity for rank 2 is 5%.
Avoidance% is insignificant but:
Live(Note:This is with Live Avoidance Scaling):
0Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(1Stack Audacity) grants 24.5%
0Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(2Stack Audacity) grants 28.6%
0Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(3Stack Audacity) grants 32.2%
139Avoidance grants 58.7%
139Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(1Stack Audacity) grants 59.9%
139Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(2Stack Audacity) grants 61.1%
139Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(3Stack Audacity) grants 62.2%
PTS(Note:This is with PTS Avoidance Scaling):
0Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(1Stack Audacity) grants 24.5%
0Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(2Stack Audacity) grants 28.6%
0Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(3Stack Audacity) grants 32.2%
139Avoidance grants 55%
139Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(1Stack Audacity) grants 56.5%
139Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(2Stack Audacity) grants 57.9%
139Avoidance+Rank2Quarry(3Stack Audacity) grants 59.2%
If you say so. Fine.
I thought Heroic + R5-7 was baseline. Heroic gear is easily acquirable and the reason why Mercenary gear is skipped over unless you are VERY lazy, impatient, broke, or some combination thereof. I do get your point that very few people run R9 mods and those shouldn't used as a baseline though.