Crit-strike and dexterity both 'share' dr for critical chance. Has been this way since they added the option to gear for it.
The new scaling gives more starting benefit for up to around 200ish and after that you have reached heavy DR. The only reason why they would do this is to promote the new(but poorly scaling) offense that has changed from additive to multiplicative. Overall offense scaling sucks but it provides a nice benefit now. Would not stack it past 15/20% though.
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Based on the rank and the total amount in all 3 of your superstats way of the warrior provides:
Now, I know that 109 is 36.4% Dodge chance(on live so this is live dodge scaling). Note: This includes the 10% starting dodge chance that everyone has. So that means the new rank3 wotw provides equal flat dodge chance for everyone instead of those who have 8XX in their combined superstats.
__________________
Now for something extremely funny:
Rank3 Night Warrior
total#ofSS|blah%|blah%|blah%|dodge#|avoidance#
0 13% 10% 0% 0 0
175 25% 10% 2.3% 7.7 7.7
309 33% 10% 4.1% 14 14
353 36% 10% 4.7% 15 15
446 41% 10% 6% 20 20
492 44% 10% 6.6% 22 22
536 47% 10% 7.1% 24 24
580 49% 10% 7.7% 26 26
831 64% 10% 11% 37 37
28 dodge# is 19.2%
44 dodge# is 23.5%
>This is with live scaling and the 10% preset dodge chance<
Crit-strike and dexterity both 'share' dr for critical chance. Has been this way since they added the option to gear for it.
The new scaling gives more starting benefit for up to around 200ish and after that you have reached heavy DR. The only reason why they would do this is to promote the new(but poorly scaling) offense that has changed from additive to multiplicative. Overall offense scaling sucks but it provides a nice benefit now. Would not stack it past 15/20% though.
___________________________________
Based on the rank and the total amount in all 3 of your superstats way of the warrior provides:
Now, I know that 109 is 36.4% Dodge chance(on live so this is live dodge scaling). Note: This includes the 10% starting dodge chance that everyone has. So that means the new rank3 wotw provides equal flat dodge chance for everyone instead of those who have 8XX in their combined superstats.
My point was different from yours. I was pointing out that SS DEX gives little to no benefit to Crit Chance when combined with Crit Rating. In fact going EGO would give you far greater Crit chance (from the spec tree) + the innate dmg boost that Ego has. The way they implemented this DEX - Rating interaction is bad.
Dex is supposed to be the CRIT stat but as it stands now it's nothing special. The only thing DEX has going for it is it's mastery, except that it's meh now. Not to mention how ridiculous some of the DEX specs are now with how the rating scaling works.
Dex is supposed to be the CRIT stat but as it stands now it's nothing special. The only thing DEX has going for it is it's mastery, except that it's meh now. Not to mention how ridiculous some of the DEX specs are now with how the rating scaling works.
Is dex suppose to be THE crit stat or are people just making it out to be such?
I mean, yes, dexterity is the only stat that gives critical chance and it is all it gives. But does that mean that if you get it and stack it with crit-strike you should have 100% critical chance or a less insane but more accurately labeled as: 'better-than-all-other-spec-trees-and-branches-combined'% critical chance.
Or is dexterity just another route that people can go to get critical chance and use their(up to two) core-mod slot/s for something else? If crit-strike didn't exist then how would people feel about dexterity then?
Is dex suppose to be THE crit stat or are people just making it out to be such?
I mean, yes, dexterity is the only stat that gives critical chance and it is all it gives. But does that mean that if you get it and stack it with crit-strike you should have 100% critical chance or a less insane but more accurately labeled as: 'better-than-all-other-spec-trees-and-branches-combined'% critical chance.
Or is dexterity just another route that people can go to get critical chance and use their(up to two) core-mod slot/s for something else? If crit-strike didn't exist then how would people feel about dexterity then?
Well by this logic we might ask is PRE the healing stat? Is STR the stat for kb rez? etc...
Nobody can answer this question but since beta DEX was always THE stat for Crit Chance (well back then it was DEX + EGO for crit and sev).
Anways, yes I do believe that DEX + Crit chance should be THE stat for crits. Currently any other stat except for DEX benefits from it's combination with Crit Rating yet if you have DEX + Crit Rating you get penalized severely. I do not believe that such bias should be the case.
Put my Archer onto test and gave it Justice gear Rank VII mods, and avoidance core V.
With Quarry R3 and audacity at three stacks I ended up with 34.8% dodge and 66% avoidance, this is on top of 58% defense based resistance.
That puts me to 47.8% chance to dodge when I use Evasive Manuvers.
This is a bad change, very bad. I am now, with top end-game gear, worse than I am on live with random green gear, Rank IV mods, no EM, and no avoidance core. On live I'm 52% for 34.2% avoidance. And I'm squishy, and now I'm going to be Even squishier, and I have to farm the top Phat lootz for the pleasure.
I know this is supposed to be a nerf, but when a week ago, on live, I was looking forward to endgame gear where I wouldn't be quite so squishy, and now I see I'm going to be even worse, and have to grind for it.
This is not ok.
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Fire and Ice Feedback
1.There are too many simultaneous insta-gibs. Between Frosticus' +87 ice daggers of ****-whooping, living fire, living ice, and the prison, 7 players are spending more time looking for things, than actually trying to defeat the bosses.
*Make each insta-gib mutually exclusive, so players only have to look for one at a time, and can assign someone to that.
2. Pet's need buffs, lots of them and not because of this event, but in this alert they are not only a liability, but they also practically garauntee a failure. Pets need to not trigger anything.
Well by this logic we migh ask is PRE the healing stat? Is STR the stat for kb rez? etc...
Nobody can answer this question but since beta DEX was always THE stat for Crit Chance (well back then it was DEX + EGO for crit and sev).
Anways, yes I do believe that DEX + Crit chance should be THE stat for crits. Currently any other stat except for DEX benefits from it's combination with Crit Rating yet if you have DEX + Crit Rating you get penalized severely. I do not believe that such bias should be the case.
Well actually yes.. Pre is the only stat that gives healing% Str is the only stat that gives kb resistance(and melee strength) con is the only stat that gives hp etc. The only stat that doesn't 'follow' this is recovery but it is a poor substitute for endurance for max energy purposes.
There are mods for almost all of the things that stats give..Those core mods that do exist either provide greater benefit to their specific stat than most stats do or significantly less than the stat.
Onwards and upwards, What do you want exactly?
For dexterity to get a flat rate bonus to crit chance in the spec tree? To allow people with dexterity and crit-strike to stack both and get up to 100% critical chance? To have each 'cap' at 30% so that people HAVE to have dexterity to get more than 30%+flatratefromspectree% critical chance?
Or just the plain and simple re-evaluate the current situation and stop forcing players into a corner just to make them look at the new changes that the devs believe are 'for the better'?
Or some other reason?
Help me understand what you want. I can infer all I want but it is simpler to just ask.
Well actually yes.. Pre is the only stat that gives healing% Str is the only stat that gives kb resistance(and melee strength) con is the only stat that gives hp etc. The only stat that doesn't 'follow' this is recovery but it is a poor substitute for endurance for max energy purposes.
There are mods for almost all of the things that stats give..Those core mods that do exist either provide greater benefit to their specific stat than most stats do or significantly less than the stat.
Onwards and upwards, What do you want exactly?
For dexterity to get a flat rate bonus to crit chance in the spec tree? To allow people with dexterity and crit-strike to stack both and get up to 100% critical chance? To have each 'cap' at 30% so that people HAVE to have dexterity to get more than 30%+flatratefromspectree% critical chance?
Or just the plain and simple re-evaluate the current situation and stop forcing players into a corner just to make them look at the new changes that the devs believe are 'for the better'?
Or some other reason?
Help me understand what you want. I can infer all I want but it is simpler to just ask.
I never said anything about getting 100% crit chance. Let's not go into hyperbole and accusing each other of things that have never been said. Unless that is what you want.
What I want is simple, no more absurd changes for "balance and diversity" when in fact the only thing they do is pigeonhole you. Even the current crit chance on live is not that bad. It's not like dps is an exploit. If they want diversity they could make Offense provide a worthwhile bonus.
We already were there when Offensive Passives were not worth it due to how much you would die. There is no point in doing 10k DPS (exaggerating) to an enemy that has 1 mil and can one shot you. You won't live enough to actually play, you got DPS but SO WHAT? Guess we will go back to the time when Offensive Passives were not worthwhile. (this was regarding the dodge change)
Furthermore, they implement those changes yet they are completely ignorant to how many things those will affect (spec trees for example). Cryptic has never been good at fixing things nor having the least bit of foresight but they are really talented at breaking things that work.
The current changes to Crit penalize those who invest in it but provide greater benefit to those who don't. That's backwards IMO and makes DEX superfluous. Taking EGO/STR provides far greater benefits stat wise and spec tree wise now that DEX scales so badly.
What I want is simple, no more absurd changes for "balance and diversity" when in fact the only thing they do is pigeonhole you.
The current changes to Crit penalize those who invest in it but provide greater benefit to those who don't. That's backwards IMO and makes DEX superfluous. Taking EGO/STR provides far greater benefits stat wise and spec tree wise now that DEX scales so badly.
And how can the dev team go about accomplishing this?
Leave sarcasm and cynicism out. I'm not trying to be rude or anything I am genuinely curious about your opinion on this matter and I want to know your thoughts on what changes can be made to make you enjoy this aspect more.
So, please,What is the problem and what exactly do you want and how can the dev team go about accomplishing this?
Example:
Problem - Ranking up Power does nothing.
What I want - Fix the ranking up of this power so that I don't spend my points on no true gain.
Possible Solution that is acceptable by my terms - Make the power deal more damage based on rank or have a shorter charge time based on rank or a shorter cooldown based on rank.
2 quick screenshots from two of my chars stats on Live and Test. EGO Build with dodge just from items (Heroic Breastplate of Agility with R5 Gamblers Lucky).
The crit-nerf is not that hard, dodge however ..
And on a Dex-Build .. here the crit-nerf is much harder .. massive Dex but critchance is nearly the same as on the EGO-Builc :rolleyes:
Seems the only reason for DEX now is just to push Form of the Tempest
And two premium ATs, the Disciple and the Specialist, are depending on their crit chance for self healing.
Nerf it too much and those AT no longer have real method of self-healing.
The Disciple is very squishy, it needs it for survival.
From experience retooling - especially if you have guardicator or wardicator - retool dodge gear toons to have more defense. Most of them seem to do okay.
Not much different i think since the both have Invuln and 2-3 sources of healing, however not every character is skilled like that.
Biggest problem for me at the moment is, that i need a lot of new gear for all characters with dodge gear to replace it with +Hitpoints maybe, and also that quite some character are Dex-based ranged with FoTT, and the really now have to be changed to EGO with Concentration.
So a lot new gear and a lot respecs are needed, and i suspect we don't get compensated for that in any way
I'm pretty sure we'll get a free RetCon with these changes when they go live.
If we don't (and it would be disappointing if we don't), you'll still get free RetCons when you get the rest of your LTS rewards, unless you're over 900 days already. Doesn't help non-lifers though.
I don't expect any "compensation" for people who choose to change their gear. Fortunately Heroic gear is easy to earn. I feel sorry for people who have a lot of Legion gear that they choose to swap out.
_________________________________________________ @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
I'm pretty sure we'll get a free RetCon with these changes when they go live.
If we don't (and it would be disappointing if we don't), you'll still get free RetCons when you get the rest of your LTS rewards, unless you're over 900 days already. Doesn't help non-lifers though.
I don't expect any "compensation" for people who choose to change their gear. Fortunately Heroic gear is easy to earn. I feel sorry for people who have a lot of Legion gear that they choose to swap out.
Ive already my 1000 days reward. The last i remember is i didn't got free retcons when thy changed Aspect of the Infernal, so that i had to respec to FoTT on some characters and i also didn't got a respec when they changed Imbue so that it is now near useless for me.
Heroic gear with T5 is easy, and god thanks i have no Legion and / ot higher than T5 mods. Still i have maybe 20+ characters where i have to change the gear, so that sums up.
But i assume all the Legion Gear Users with T7+ will happily throw out more money to buy the new Justice Gear so that they are around where they were before and can tell that everything is still too easy and needs to be nerfed even more
But i assume all the Legion Gear Users with T7+ will happily throw out more money to buy the new Justice Gear so that they are around where they were before and can tell that everything is still too easy and needs to be nerfed even more
Hi. I don't have legion gear, I don't have rank 7+ mods, and I don't have any min/max builds. I think the game is too easy. There, you can stop thinking that people at the top end are the only ones who think that now... unless you'd like to tell me that I'm somehow amazingly skilled at the game? ^_^
Hi. I don't have legion gear, I don't have rank 7+ mods, and I don't have any min/max builds. I think the game is too easy. There, you can stop thinking that people at the top end are the only ones who think that now... unless you'd like to tell me that I'm somehow amazingly skilled at the game? ^_^
The game is maybe too easy .. however a lot of people like it that way. If you want hard games, there are a lot of other games out there.
Else i also talk about 2 specific players that only seem to play 1 main-charachter here instead masses of alts like many others, and that have mostly maxed that character, and constantly cry for harder content or more nerf. Not to forget at least one of thems seems to know every exploit that exits and uses them to trivilalize content.
Also : nerfing players just to bring out better gear in lockboxes to bring them back to were they were before is simply calles Pay2Win everywhere else .. and most people don't really like that at all.
2 quick screenshots from two of my chars stats on Live and Test. EGO Build with dodge just from items (Heroic Breastplate of Agility with R5 Gamblers Lucky).
The crit-nerf is not that hard, dodge however ..
And on a Dex-Build .. here the crit-nerf is much harder .. massive Dex but critchance is nearly the same as on the EGO-Builc :rolleyes:
Seems the only reason for DEX now is just to push Form of the Tempest
This is the same thing I noticed and posted the numbers to support it.
The Crit Chance nerf is extreme ~10% lower than on live if you go DEX - Crit Crating. As such, considering that DEX has no means of getting Crit Chance from specs like EGO/STR this results in DEX and it's spec tree to become useless.
Again, Cryptic failed to do basic testing and notice the obvious.
How will the dodge and crit changes make for more diversified builds? The only thing I see is that:
1. Dex SS with Crit Rating is worthless (the DEX tree has nothing going for it now except the mastery)
2. All Offensive Passives are where they were before On Alert (namely rubbish). What am I supposed to do with 30% dodge from Quarry? I'll survive a lot with that lol. I went on an averagely specced toon with 57% dodge (LIVE) to 30% dodge (PTS). There is no point having high DPS if I die in a second, there's no boss I can take down by one shotting him but if he one shots me well....Not to mention that Cryptic nerfed the stat bonus for Quarry, basically we loose 60 stat points.
@not at you beldin
I can't honestly understand how anyone can support those changes. The game is too easy? What are people talking about normal PvE? Lairs are not all that easy on Elite and gimmick alerts like Gravitar are not easy.
If people want a challenge (where a thug can take you down) go play DCUO where you can feel like the sidekick you want to be.
Alright.. this is super minor but could you guys please change the powers of the new haunted becomes to red ? Having a red demonic ghost shooting light blue power beams seems weird, and as a gold member I went and tried it ; it looks much better when it's red.
The game is maybe too easy .. however a lot of people like it that way. If you want hard games, there are a lot of other games out there.
Certain parts can be more challenging, certain parts can be less challenging. Yes, there can be parts for everyone. No, not everything in the game has to be the same. This is true of all video games.
Else i also talk about 2 specific players that only seem to play 1 main-charachter here instead masses of alts like many others, and that have mostly maxed that character, and constantly cry for harder content or more nerf. Not to forget at least one of thems seems to know every exploit that exits and uses them to trivilalize content.
Let's be honest. The only crying that happens in relation to challenging content is when they come out with something that's even moderately challenging and people cry for it to be nerfed. When it comes to wanting more challenging content, folks just suggest and request... then folks show up to cry about how they're trying to turn the entire game into a super-challenging leet-fest and threaten the game with a "mass exodus" if they dare to make anything more than a tank-n-spank. Trying to characterize people who want the game to be harder as crying is.. humorously ironic.
Also : nerfing players just to bring out better gear in lockboxes to bring them back to were they were before is simply calles Pay2Win everywhere else .. and most people don't really like that at all.
Pay2HaveAnEasyGameBeEvenEasier is what you were looking for. You'll still be able to win without paying... much like my current characters who don't have any dodge or crit do. I'm quite frankly not sure how anyone ever got it in their head that we even needed the current amounts of dodge and crit to be able to play this game...
Defense = ~79.7%(Note: The system would round this up to 80%)
Offense = ~20%
Critical Chance = 35.4 + 9(3 stacks of expose) + 6(single targeted attacks) = 50.4%
Critical Severity = 119.1%
Special = Exposed Weakness. upto 10% 'defense penetration/multiplicative damage bonus from negative defense'
Right off the bat Dexterity has 13%(multiplicative) bonus damage over Ego. 10% of this damage 'pierces' the defenses of the test dummies and 3% of this gets added directly onto all powers. Your Dexterity has 15.1% more critical severity than Ego so more bonus damage for when you do crit.
Looking at the power choices you have 2gm so this means you have an extra 10% defense penetration from the power itself. The average test dummies have 10.X% defense so you'd wind up with ~9.X% multiplicative bonus damage from exposed weakness. So your dexterity performs better and shows it in your combat log.(the special 'immortal' test dummies have like 15 or 25% defense..I really don't really remember)
Your ego crits 9% more often than your dexterity, has 4.4% more resistance from defense and that is all. You didn't get the -upto30%ofyourcritseverity- multiplicative bonus damage that you get from having a crit but it only applies itself to your off-crits. So in the end ego just crits 9% more often than your dexterity and has 4.4% more resistance from defense. Yay?
You use the same exact gear for both of them. You have 6 rank 9 Int stat mods slotted. I did not factor in audacity nor did I factor in the bonus from ego.
Your rank 3 quarry gives slightly more than 85% 43% and even more due to audacity.
You are not a good example of the 'average' 'silver' 'freeform' player, sorry.
You are not a good example of the 'average' 'silver' 'freeform' player, sorry.
I know, but that was more a reply to dex being all but useless now.
If some builds can get more out of ego, or str, I really don't see any problems in that.
Dex is still a very nice stat, it doesn't need any big buffs.
And nicely deduced all in all, I made one change to the gear, for ego I had crit rating mods, and for dex offense mods.
Pay2HaveAnEasyGameBeEvenEasier is what you were looking for. You'll still be able to win without paying... much like my current characters who don't have any dodge or crit do. I'm quite frankly not sure how anyone ever got it in their head that we even needed the current amounts of dodge and crit to be able to play this game...
The problem is simply that nobody likes if they take away something you already owned and when you should pay to get it back, no matter if you really need it.
What would you say if the take away your Superstats and next they sell them in Lockboxes ? Heck i bet the game would still be too easy for you without Superstats .. but would you like if they do that ?
I know, but that was more a reply to dex being all but useless now.
If some builds can get more out of ego, or str, I really don't see any problems in that.
Dex is still a very nice stat, it doesn't need any big buffs.
The best way for me to put what I have to say in words is:
Would EGO perform better than DEXTERITY on lesser gear?
I am too lazy to get said gear for at the end of the day should everyone not strive to reach the 'top'?
It is their choice to not reach the 'top' and I am not one to judge the happiness of others. If you are content then good for you! If you aren't content then I will suggest finding a way to make yourself that way but do not change yourself...you just admit defeat if you do..
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Example:
Rank 3 Aura of Radiant Protection can get up to 150%+ resistance to all damage while in the hybrid role. This is more than the current highest Defiance (22% per stack)
1066+195+188 Stats and Rank 3 Aura of Radiant Protection gives 161% Resistance to all Damage for Yourself in Hybrid Role.
The limitations of defiance and the fall of a great passive due to it scaling only on one specific superstat.(At least it has energy-gain function, then again aorp shields all allies within range with some bonus resistance too)
Defense = ~79.7%(Note: The system would round this up to 80%)
Offense = ~20%
Critical Chance = 35.4 + 9(3 stacks of expose) + 6(single targeted attacks) = 50.4%
Critical Severity = 119.1%
Special = Exposed Weakness. upto 10% 'defense penetration/multiplicative damage bonus from negative defense'
Right off the bat Dexterity has 13%(multiplicative) bonus damage over Ego. 10% of this damage 'pierces' the defenses of the test dummies and 3% of this gets added directly onto all powers. Your Dexterity has 15.1% more critical severity than Ego so more bonus damage for when you do crit.
Looking at the power choices you have 2gm so this means you have an extra 10% defense penetration from the power itself. The average test dummies have 10.X% defense so you'd wind up with ~9.X% multiplicative bonus damage from exposed weakness. So your dexterity performs better and shows it in your combat log.(the special 'immortal' test dummies have like 15 or 25% defense..I really don't really remember)
Your ego crits 9% more often than your dexterity, has 4.4% more resistance from defense and that is all. You didn't get the -upto30%ofyourcritseverity- multiplicative bonus damage that you get from having a crit but it only applies itself to your off-crits. So in the end ego just crits 9% more often than your dexterity and has 4.4% more resistance from defense. Yay?
You use the same exact gear for both of them. You have 6 rank 9 Int stat mods slotted. I did not factor in audacity nor did I factor in the bonus from ego.
Your rank 3 quarry gives slightly more than 85% 43% and even more due to audacity.
You are not a good example of the 'average' 'silver' 'freeform' player, sorry.
I'm confused. I've read what you wrote and I'm not sure what you want to say?
Is it:
1. That DEX - Crit Rating is ok because you can take X,Y specializations (again this pigeonholes you into picking certain specs, does not really allow for variety does it?)
2. That the gear used is far beyond the "average" player lvl and thus shows lvls of power that are not accessible to normal players.
I suspect it's the later but up until the last sentence I thought it was 1.
Even though this might not be that representative the point still remains namely EGO is better than DEX now. Even with the %dmg penetration from DEX it still does not make up for it. Ego gets a %dmg bonus from the stat itself, the higher it is the more you get so that works in EGO's favour + the ego tree has power cost discount (always useful) + Force of will (gives you Defense based on SSS, which is again useful). Not to mention the scaling direct %crit chance and %crit severity.
Would still belong to your powers because DEX boosts Form of the Tempest for melee and EGO Concentration and ranged damage.
DEX / FoTT however would now be no longer really an alternative to EGO / Conc on ranged toons i think.
Dex would not perform better than EGO/STR. I've shown the benefit you get from a DEX - Crit Rating combination which is a joke (~7% higher crit chance compared to using them individually).
On top of this you have STR who's spec tree is fantastic. You can get defense, cost discount, crit chance (flat) and crit severity (flat). Ego has similar specs to STR. And both of them give %dmg from the stat itself.
DEX on the other hand is not that amazing, sure there is the mastery and the defense penetration but again the less you crit the less that increased severity helps you + it has severe diminishing returns when combined with Crit Rating.
Basically DEX has extremely poor scaling. If you were to build a toon based on DEX + Crit Rating and one based on EGO + Crit Rating the more you would invest in DEX the less you would get while for EGO you would get more Crit Severity (if you add EGO) or Crit Chance (other SS) + EGO's inhered %dmg boost. In the case of DEX the more you put into it the less you get, you get Crit Severity from Secondary Super Stats.
I tried building both versions and the differences are absurd. The better gear you get and the higher the mods you have the better EGO - Crit Rating becomes while DEX - Crit Rating falls more an more behind. (same with STR - Crit Rating)
I'm confused. I've read what you wrote and I'm not sure what you want to say?
I was putting what the person had posted into percentages instead of their numbers. It was me just pushing myself to deduce what the person had.
It is not a controlled variable for the person admitted to forgoing critical-strike for offense in the case of dexterity.
The spec trees are exactly the same except for the primary stat and mastery. The talent choices are exactly the same and the stats in gear are the same. The core mods differ, however.
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Even though this might not be that representative the point still remains namely EGO is better than DEX now. Even with the %dmg penetration from DEX it still does not make up for it. Ego gets a %dmg bonus from the stat itself, the higher it is the more you get so that works in EGO's favour + the ego tree has power cost discount (always useful) + Force of will (gives you Defense based on SSS, which is again useful). Not to mention the scaling direct %crit chance and %crit severity.
This part confuses me. Is repetition the goal of the person or is as much damage as humanly possible the goal of the person or is it some obscure goal that isn't mentioned?
We both are not the person with the build so we both cannot answer for them. From their choice of gear and powers I can infer but at the same time I will not be right unless they say it themselves.
For them dex is better in terms of pure total damage and dps.
__________
Spec trees differ and offer no controllable variables when you take them all into account.
For them dex is better in terms of pure total damage and dps.
__________
Spec trees differ and offer no controllable variables when you take them all into account.
Wait, the point of the DEX and EGO builds was to show that DEX is better?
Well that's weird because based on the pictures what I saw was something different.
Wait, the point of the DEX and EGO builds was to show that DEX is better?
Well that's weird because based on the pictures what I saw was something different.
Wait wait wait wait...I think I'm starting to understand what most people are doing now.
They are looking at the spec trees and seeing shiny numbers without taking into the account that they can only spend 10 points in each branch(5 of which can only be in tier 2).
They aren't applying them numbers they are merely looking at the shiny big numbers then restating and looking at the other shiny numbers and going "Well, dexterity doesn't have a spec tree option for this and it is blah blah".
They don't care that dexterity has a tier 2 spec that has upto 10% multiplicative bonus damage they only care that EGO has 'more critical chance' if they spend x/3 points in the spec tree.
Stop looking at the numbers and start applying them. You will see the difference if you APPLY.
BTW lower left hand corner of the SSes have the combat log. Dexterity does more overall damage and has more dps.
^Oh, but the person admitted to changing out critical-strike for offense when they used dexterity so take from that what you will.
Dex would not perform better than EGO/STR. I've shown the benefit you get from a DEX - Crit Rating combination which is a joke (~7% higher crit chance compared to using them individually).
On top of this you have STR who's spec tree is fantastic. You can get defense, cost discount, crit chance (flat) and crit severity (flat). Ego has similar specs to STR. And both of them give %dmg from the stat itself.
EGO / STR a TWO Superstats .. of course they should be better than just one. If i want however to have also CON and REC then there is no place for STR. Question is only DEX or EGO or only STR instead.
Wait wait wait wait...I think I'm starting to understand what most people are doing now.
They are looking at the spec trees and seeing shiny numbers without taking into the account that they can only spend 10 points in each branch(5 of which can only be in tier 2).
They aren't applying them numbers they are merely looking at the shiny big numbers then restating and looking at the other shiny numbers and going "Well, dexterity doesn't have a spec tree option for this and it is blah blah".
They don't care that dexterity has a tier 2 spec that has upto 10% multiplicative bonus damage they only care that EGO has 'more critical chance' if they spend x/3 points in the spec tree.
Stop looking at the numbers and start applying them. You will see the difference if you APPLY.
BTW lower left hand corner of the SSes have the combat log. Dexterity does more overall damage and has more dps.
^Oh, but the person admitted to changing out critical-strike for offense when they used dexterity so take from that what you will.
This is not true. You are accusing me of things that are preposterous.
The 10% penetration you talk about is nothing much. EGO itself boosts the dmg by 20% at 70 EGO and it gets higher the more you invest in it.
Look at how DEX - Crit Rating and EGO - Crit Rating scales when you add better gear and higher mods. You will see the difference there.
Don't go assuming you know how I do things because you don't.
EGO / STR a TWO Superstats .. of course they should be better than just one. If i want however to have also CON and REC then there is no place for STR. Question is only DEX or EGO or only STR instead.
Lol I was saying EGO or STR not EGO and STR....
I was saying EGO SS + 2x other SSS OR STR SS + 2x oher SSS >>> than DEX SS + 2x other SSS.
I was saying people as a whole not specifically you. I am sorry if I made you feel that way.
10% from Exposed Weakness is multiplicative.
They changed EGO's damage bonus from additive to multiplicative?
Look at the lower left hand corner.
Dexterity has more total damage and more DPS.
My apologies then, I thought you were referring to me.
Well regarding the 2 pictures I see now why DEX is ahead. The builds are not equal. You don't build a EGO toon the same as an DEX toon. Having the same nr in both Primary SS for both DEX and EGO makes NO SENSE. In the DEX build you go optimized and put only as much as you need in EGO but in the EGO one you go WAY beyond what you need.
A better EGO build would be where you have around 150-200(max) EGO and the rest (from the 271 EGO) placed in DEX. Then you take one secondary offense and replace it with one that gives Crit Severity. You would do the same with one of the mods from the Primary Offense.
It's obvious that you don't have to push that much for EGO to get higher Crit Chance (due to the Spec tree) thus the focus should be NOT ON OFFENSE but Severity. That's why by placing 100 points from EGO into DEX it would boost Crit Chance (from DEX) as well as Crit Severity (from the EGO spec tree).
IMO only the DEX build is optimized the EGO one is not. For DEX they got more Offense since Crit Rating interacts horribly but with EGO they should have went and added more Severity and move ~100 point from EGO to DEX. That build would definitely out DPS the DEX one.
DEX and EGO builds are build differently. You (no you) can't go and copy the same configuration for both and claim a fair comparison. The EGO build has WAYY too much EGO. It needs to move it to DEX and then boost it's Crit Severity.
My apologies then, I thought you were referring to me.
Well regarding the 2 pictures I see now why DEX is ahead. The builds are not equal. You don't build a DEX toon the same as an EGO toon. Having the same nr in both Primary SS for both DEX and EGO makes NO SENSE. In the DEX build you go optimized and put only as much as you need in DEX but in the EGO one you go WAY beyond what you need.
A better EGO build would be where you have around 150-200(max) EGO and the rest (from the 276 EGO) placed in DEX. Then you take one secondary offense and replace it with one that gives Crit Severity. You would do the same with one of the mods from the Primary Offense.
It's obvious that you don't have to push that much for EGO to get higher Crit Chance (due to the Spec tree) thus the focus should be NOT ON OFFENSE but Severity. That's why by placing 100 points from EGO into DEX it would boost Crit Chance (from DEX) as well as Crit Severity (from the EGO spec tree).
IMO only the DEX build is optimized the EGO one is not. For DEX they got more Offense since Crit Rating interacts horribly but with EGO they should have went and added more Severity and move ~100 point from EGO to DEX. That build would definitely out DPS the DEX one.
DEX and EGO builds are build differently. You (no you) can't go and copy the same configuration for both and claim a fair comparison. The EGO build has WAYY too much EGO. It needs to move it to DEX and then boost it's Crit Severity.
For the ego build you can't move ANY ego.
All 6 Mod slots are packed with INT.
The gear for, both, ego and dexterity is exactly the same except for dexterity they took out critical-strike in favor of offense.
The spec tree branches are exactly the same except one of ego and one of dexterity and both of them have their specific stat mastery.
The talent choices of the two are exactly the same.
All 6 Mod slots are packed with INT.
The gear for, both, ego and dexterity is exactly the same except for dexterity they took out critical-strike in favor of offense.
The spec tree branches are exactly the same except one of ego and one of dexterity and both of them have their specific stat mastery.
The talent choices of the two are exactly the same.
What do you mean they can't. You can't reach 271 EGO without having invested in some EGO mods or have some gear that added EGO.
My apologies then, I thought you were referring to me.
Well regarding the 2 pictures I see now why DEX is ahead. The builds are not equal. You don't build a EGO toon the same as an DEX toon. Having the same nr in both Primary SS for both DEX and EGO makes NO SENSE. In the DEX build you go optimized and put only as much as you need in EGO but in the EGO one you go WAY beyond what you need.
A better EGO build would be where you have around 150-200(max) EGO and the rest (from the 271 EGO) placed in DEX. Then you take one secondary offense and replace it with one that gives Crit Severity. You would do the same with one of the mods from the Primary Offense.
It's obvious that you don't have to push that much for EGO to get higher Crit Chance (due to the Spec tree) thus the focus should be NOT ON OFFENSE but Severity. That's why by placing 100 points from EGO into DEX it would boost Crit Chance (from DEX) as well as Crit Severity (from the EGO spec tree).
IMO only the DEX build is optimized the EGO one is not. For DEX they got more Offense since Crit Rating interacts horribly but with EGO they should have went and added more Severity and move ~100 point from EGO to DEX. That build would definitely out DPS the DEX one.
DEX and EGO builds are build differently. You (no you) can't go and copy the same configuration for both and claim a fair comparison. The EGO build has WAYY too much EGO. It needs to move it to DEX and then boost it's Crit Severity.
This is with vigilate gear, not an option to get less ego unless going for gear that gives less stats. That is also with 25% from vindicator/guardian specs, how would you get more severity? The only option as far as specs go would be changing the ego crit chance to the severity spec, but you dont want that if you are trying to get even less ego. For gear that was with justice gear and two crit chance mods, so you want to test with severity mods? One or two?
So can you give some concrete ideas things you would change, I am willing to do some more testing tomorrow.
The reason for changing out the mods form the primary offense is the scaling and DR issues. I tried keeping the builds as much the same as possible, but going with crit rating mods and dex primary is a little silly, and so would going ego with offense mods be.
The problem is simply that nobody likes if they take away something you already owned and when you should pay to get it back, no matter if you really need it.
What would you say if the take away your Superstats and next they sell them in Lockboxes ? Heck i bet the game would still be too easy for you without Superstats .. but would you like if they do that ?
You really equate "taking away your superstats" with "reducing your dodge and crit levels somewhat" ?
You're going to have to point out how those are in any way similar. Removing super stats would actually make the game unplayable... so I would say "wow, they're making the game unplayable unless you pay, that sucks". That doesn't speak to your point at all though... since >>lowering<< dodge and crit is in no way similar to >>removing<< super stats.
Especially when you consider the fact that you won't have to pay to get the new gear either, just like you never had to pay for Legion gear.
I see what's happening now. I thought there was a Vigilante's piece that gave Severity O_o for some reason. Anyhow I would replace the Secondary Offense piece with one that grants Severity. It will give more benefit IMO.
Overall I guess you really went all out there with the gear. I would still not use the new gear compared to Legions. I would have used Legions with innate Severity Rating (~4-5 rating) and then add Crit Rating. Furthermore I would not have invested that much into INT and went with more EGO or DEX depending on how DR hit, potentially CON for survival.
I see what's happening now. I thought there was a Vigilante's piece that gave Severity O_o for some reason. Anyhow I would replace the Secondary Offense piece with one that grants Severity. It will give more benefit IMO.
Overall I guess you really went all out there with the gear. I would still not use the new gear compared to Legions. I would have used Legions with innate Severity Rating (~4-5 rating) and then add Crit Rating. Furthermore I would not have invested that much into INT and went with more EGO or DEX depending on how DR hit, potentially CON for survival.
There's secondary gear that grants severity?
PTS Critical Severity:
Base Severity is 50%
2.5 Severity grants 61.7%(This is justice gear)
4.6 Severity grants 63.7%(This is legion gear)
8.9 Severity grants 66.1%(This is legion gear+rank 5 severity core)
15 Severity grants 68.4% (I believe this was justice gear and 2 rank 5 severity cores before they 'nerfed' justice gear)
I see what's happening now. I thought there was a Vigilante's piece that gave Severity O_o for some reason. Anyhow I would replace the Secondary Offense piece with one that grants Severity. It will give more benefit IMO.
Overall I guess you really went all out there with the gear. I would still not use the new gear compared to Legions. I would have used Legions with innate Severity Rating (~4-5 rating) and then add Crit Rating. Furthermore I would not have invested that much into INT and went with more EGO or DEX depending on how DR hit, potentially CON for survival.
I don't have a secondary that gives severity, can you give some precise information and with gear I can get from the test npc on PTS. So exactly how many INT should be removed, and change them to EGO or to DEX?
PTS Critical Severity:
Base Severity is 50%
2.5 Severity grants 61.7%(This is justice gear)
4.6 Severity grants 63.7%(This is legion gear)
8.9 Severity grants 66.1%(This is legion gear+rank 5 severity core)
15 Severity grants 68.4% (I believe this was justice gear and 2 rank 5 severity cores before they 'nerfed' justice gear)
Ups my bad. There is but it's from the old crafting system. Not available anymore (well I have a couple :P)
I don't have a secondary that gives severity, can you give some precise information and with gear I can get from the test npc on PTS. So exactly how many INT should be removed, and change them to EGO or to DEX?
I would say you should go with Maybe 1 or 2 INT MODS and replace them with EGO. My reasoning is that EGO already has more Crit Chance and falls short on the Severity. Furthermore you should go with R3 on Follow Through. This combined with the HIGH Ego will give you quite a bit more Severity. (Since you don't have a secondary that gives sev)
Furthermoe by increasing your EGO you are increasing your Crit Chance which will counter the fact that you increase Follow Through to R3. Esentially with this change you should have relatively the same Crit Chance (maybe 1-2% less) but substantially more Severity (~10% or more based on my estimation, you'd have to test it to see it).
Comments
What exactly is your point?
Crit-strike and dexterity both 'share' dr for critical chance. Has been this way since they added the option to gear for it.
The new scaling gives more starting benefit for up to around 200ish and after that you have reached heavy DR. The only reason why they would do this is to promote the new(but poorly scaling) offense that has changed from additive to multiplicative. Overall offense scaling sucks but it provides a nice benefit now. Would not stack it past 15/20% though.
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Based on the rank and the total amount in all 3 of your superstats way of the warrior provides:
Rank3 Way of the Warrior
total#ofSS|blah%|blah%|blah%|dodge#|avoidance#
0 42% 21% 13% 0 0
175 59% 38% 21% 23 23
309 72% 51% 28% 41 41
353 77% 55% 30% 46 46
446 86% 65% 34% 59 59
492 90% 69% 37% 65 65
536 95% 73% 39% 71 71
580 99% 78% 41% 77 77
831 123% 102% 53% 110 110
Now, I know that 109 is 36.4% Dodge chance(on live so this is live dodge scaling). Note: This includes the 10% starting dodge chance that everyone has. So that means the new rank3 wotw provides equal flat dodge chance for everyone instead of those who have 8XX in their combined superstats.
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Now for something extremely funny:
Rank3 Night Warrior
total#ofSS|blah%|blah%|blah%|dodge#|avoidance#
0 13% 10% 0% 0 0
175 25% 10% 2.3% 7.7 7.7
309 33% 10% 4.1% 14 14
353 36% 10% 4.7% 15 15
446 41% 10% 6% 20 20
492 44% 10% 6.6% 22 22
536 47% 10% 7.1% 24 24
580 49% 10% 7.7% 26 26
831 64% 10% 11% 37 37
28 dodge# is 19.2%
44 dodge# is 23.5%
>This is with live scaling and the 10% preset dodge chance<
My point was different from yours. I was pointing out that SS DEX gives little to no benefit to Crit Chance when combined with Crit Rating. In fact going EGO would give you far greater Crit chance (from the spec tree) + the innate dmg boost that Ego has. The way they implemented this DEX - Rating interaction is bad.
Dex is supposed to be the CRIT stat but as it stands now it's nothing special. The only thing DEX has going for it is it's mastery, except that it's meh now. Not to mention how ridiculous some of the DEX specs are now with how the rating scaling works.
Is dex suppose to be THE crit stat or are people just making it out to be such?
I mean, yes, dexterity is the only stat that gives critical chance and it is all it gives. But does that mean that if you get it and stack it with crit-strike you should have 100% critical chance or a less insane but more accurately labeled as: 'better-than-all-other-spec-trees-and-branches-combined'% critical chance.
Or is dexterity just another route that people can go to get critical chance and use their(up to two) core-mod slot/s for something else? If crit-strike didn't exist then how would people feel about dexterity then?
Well by this logic we might ask is PRE the healing stat? Is STR the stat for kb rez? etc...
Nobody can answer this question but since beta DEX was always THE stat for Crit Chance (well back then it was DEX + EGO for crit and sev).
Anways, yes I do believe that DEX + Crit chance should be THE stat for crits. Currently any other stat except for DEX benefits from it's combination with Crit Rating yet if you have DEX + Crit Rating you get penalized severely. I do not believe that such bias should be the case.
Put my Archer onto test and gave it Justice gear Rank VII mods, and avoidance core V.
With Quarry R3 and audacity at three stacks I ended up with 34.8% dodge and 66% avoidance, this is on top of 58% defense based resistance.
That puts me to 47.8% chance to dodge when I use Evasive Manuvers.
This is a bad change, very bad. I am now, with top end-game gear, worse than I am on live with random green gear, Rank IV mods, no EM, and no avoidance core. On live I'm 52% for 34.2% avoidance. And I'm squishy, and now I'm going to be Even squishier, and I have to farm the top Phat lootz for the pleasure.
I know this is supposed to be a nerf, but when a week ago, on live, I was looking forward to endgame gear where I wouldn't be quite so squishy, and now I see I'm going to be even worse, and have to grind for it.
This is not ok.
*****************************
Fire and Ice Feedback
1.There are too many simultaneous insta-gibs. Between Frosticus' +87 ice daggers of ****-whooping, living fire, living ice, and the prison, 7 players are spending more time looking for things, than actually trying to defeat the bosses.
*Make each insta-gib mutually exclusive, so players only have to look for one at a time, and can assign someone to that.
2. Pet's need buffs, lots of them and not because of this event, but in this alert they are not only a liability, but they also practically garauntee a failure. Pets need to not trigger anything.
Well actually yes.. Pre is the only stat that gives healing% Str is the only stat that gives kb resistance(and melee strength) con is the only stat that gives hp etc. The only stat that doesn't 'follow' this is recovery but it is a poor substitute for endurance for max energy purposes.
There are mods for almost all of the things that stats give..Those core mods that do exist either provide greater benefit to their specific stat than most stats do or significantly less than the stat.
Onwards and upwards, What do you want exactly?
For dexterity to get a flat rate bonus to crit chance in the spec tree? To allow people with dexterity and crit-strike to stack both and get up to 100% critical chance? To have each 'cap' at 30% so that people HAVE to have dexterity to get more than 30%+flatratefromspectree% critical chance?
Or just the plain and simple re-evaluate the current situation and stop forcing players into a corner just to make them look at the new changes that the devs believe are 'for the better'?
Or some other reason?
Help me understand what you want. I can infer all I want but it is simpler to just ask.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I never said anything about getting 100% crit chance. Let's not go into hyperbole and accusing each other of things that have never been said. Unless that is what you want.
What I want is simple, no more absurd changes for "balance and diversity" when in fact the only thing they do is pigeonhole you. Even the current crit chance on live is not that bad. It's not like dps is an exploit. If they want diversity they could make Offense provide a worthwhile bonus.
We already were there when Offensive Passives were not worth it due to how much you would die. There is no point in doing 10k DPS (exaggerating) to an enemy that has 1 mil and can one shot you. You won't live enough to actually play, you got DPS but SO WHAT? Guess we will go back to the time when Offensive Passives were not worthwhile. (this was regarding the dodge change)
Furthermore, they implement those changes yet they are completely ignorant to how many things those will affect (spec trees for example). Cryptic has never been good at fixing things nor having the least bit of foresight but they are really talented at breaking things that work.
The current changes to Crit penalize those who invest in it but provide greater benefit to those who don't. That's backwards IMO and makes DEX superfluous. Taking EGO/STR provides far greater benefits stat wise and spec tree wise now that DEX scales so badly.
And how can the dev team go about accomplishing this?
Leave sarcasm and cynicism out. I'm not trying to be rude or anything I am genuinely curious about your opinion on this matter and I want to know your thoughts on what changes can be made to make you enjoy this aspect more.
So, please,What is the problem and what exactly do you want and how can the dev team go about accomplishing this?
Example:
Problem - Ranking up Power does nothing.
What I want - Fix the ranking up of this power so that I don't spend my points on no true gain.
Possible Solution that is acceptable by my terms - Make the power deal more damage based on rank or have a shorter charge time based on rank or a shorter cooldown based on rank.
The crit-nerf is not that hard, dodge however ..
And on a Dex-Build .. here the crit-nerf is much harder .. massive Dex but critchance is nearly the same as on the EGO-Builc :rolleyes:
Seems the only reason for DEX now is just to push Form of the Tempest
Nerf it too much and those AT no longer have real method of self-healing.
The Disciple is very squishy, it needs it for survival.
Pretty much okay, or toast on PTS?
From experience retooling - especially if you have guardicator or wardicator - retool dodge gear toons to have more defense. Most of them seem to do okay.
Ego build
Dex build
Not much different i think since the both have Invuln and 2-3 sources of healing, however not every character is skilled like that.
Biggest problem for me at the moment is, that i need a lot of new gear for all characters with dodge gear to replace it with +Hitpoints maybe, and also that quite some character are Dex-based ranged with FoTT, and the really now have to be changed to EGO with Concentration.
So a lot new gear and a lot respecs are needed, and i suspect we don't get compensated for that in any way
If we don't (and it would be disappointing if we don't), you'll still get free RetCons when you get the rest of your LTS rewards, unless you're over 900 days already. Doesn't help non-lifers though.
I don't expect any "compensation" for people who choose to change their gear. Fortunately Heroic gear is easy to earn. I feel sorry for people who have a lot of Legion gear that they choose to swap out.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Ive already my 1000 days reward. The last i remember is i didn't got free retcons when thy changed Aspect of the Infernal, so that i had to respec to FoTT on some characters and i also didn't got a respec when they changed Imbue so that it is now near useless for me.
Heroic gear with T5 is easy, and god thanks i have no Legion and / ot higher than T5 mods. Still i have maybe 20+ characters where i have to change the gear, so that sums up.
But i assume all the Legion Gear Users with T7+ will happily throw out more money to buy the new Justice Gear so that they are around where they were before and can tell that everything is still too easy and needs to be nerfed even more
Hi. I don't have legion gear, I don't have rank 7+ mods, and I don't have any min/max builds. I think the game is too easy. There, you can stop thinking that people at the top end are the only ones who think that now... unless you'd like to tell me that I'm somehow amazingly skilled at the game? ^_^
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The game is maybe too easy .. however a lot of people like it that way. If you want hard games, there are a lot of other games out there.
Else i also talk about 2 specific players that only seem to play 1 main-charachter here instead masses of alts like many others, and that have mostly maxed that character, and constantly cry for harder content or more nerf. Not to forget at least one of thems seems to know every exploit that exits and uses them to trivilalize content.
Also : nerfing players just to bring out better gear in lockboxes to bring them back to were they were before is simply calles Pay2Win everywhere else .. and most people don't really like that at all.
This is the same thing I noticed and posted the numbers to support it.
The Crit Chance nerf is extreme ~10% lower than on live if you go DEX - Crit Crating. As such, considering that DEX has no means of getting Crit Chance from specs like EGO/STR this results in DEX and it's spec tree to become useless.
Again, Cryptic failed to do basic testing and notice the obvious.
How will the dodge and crit changes make for more diversified builds? The only thing I see is that:
1. Dex SS with Crit Rating is worthless (the DEX tree has nothing going for it now except the mastery)
2. All Offensive Passives are where they were before On Alert (namely rubbish). What am I supposed to do with 30% dodge from Quarry? I'll survive a lot with that lol. I went on an averagely specced toon with 57% dodge (LIVE) to 30% dodge (PTS). There is no point having high DPS if I die in a second, there's no boss I can take down by one shotting him but if he one shots me well....Not to mention that Cryptic nerfed the stat bonus for Quarry, basically we loose 60 stat points.
@not at you beldin
I can't honestly understand how anyone can support those changes. The game is too easy? What are people talking about normal PvE? Lairs are not all that easy on Elite and gimmick alerts like Gravitar are not easy.
If people want a challenge (where a thug can take you down) go play DCUO where you can feel like the sidekick you want to be.
(°∇° ) #megalodon2015
Certain parts can be more challenging, certain parts can be less challenging. Yes, there can be parts for everyone. No, not everything in the game has to be the same. This is true of all video games.
Let's be honest. The only crying that happens in relation to challenging content is when they come out with something that's even moderately challenging and people cry for it to be nerfed. When it comes to wanting more challenging content, folks just suggest and request... then folks show up to cry about how they're trying to turn the entire game into a super-challenging leet-fest and threaten the game with a "mass exodus" if they dare to make anything more than a tank-n-spank. Trying to characterize people who want the game to be harder as crying is.. humorously ironic.
Pay2HaveAnEasyGameBeEvenEasier is what you were looking for. You'll still be able to win without paying... much like my current characters who don't have any dodge or crit do. I'm quite frankly not sure how anyone ever got it in their head that we even needed the current amounts of dodge and crit to be able to play this game...
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Ego
Defense = ~84.1%
Offense = ~17%
Critical Chance = 44.4 + 9(3 stacks of expose) + 6(single targeted attacks) = 59.4%
Critical Severity = 104%
Dexterity
Defense = ~79.7%(Note: The system would round this up to 80%)
Offense = ~20%
Critical Chance = 35.4 + 9(3 stacks of expose) + 6(single targeted attacks) = 50.4%
Critical Severity = 119.1%
Special = Exposed Weakness. upto 10% 'defense penetration/multiplicative damage bonus from negative defense'
Right off the bat Dexterity has 13%(multiplicative) bonus damage over Ego. 10% of this damage 'pierces' the defenses of the test dummies and 3% of this gets added directly onto all powers. Your Dexterity has 15.1% more critical severity than Ego so more bonus damage for when you do crit.
Looking at the power choices you have 2gm so this means you have an extra 10% defense penetration from the power itself. The average test dummies have 10.X% defense so you'd wind up with ~9.X% multiplicative bonus damage from exposed weakness. So your dexterity performs better and shows it in your combat log.(the special 'immortal' test dummies have like 15 or 25% defense..I really don't really remember)
Your ego crits 9% more often than your dexterity, has 4.4% more resistance from defense and that is all. You didn't get the -upto30%ofyourcritseverity- multiplicative bonus damage that you get from having a crit but it only applies itself to your off-crits. So in the end ego just crits 9% more often than your dexterity and has 4.4% more resistance from defense. Yay?
You use the same exact gear for both of them. You have 6 rank 9 Int stat mods slotted. I did not factor in audacity nor did I factor in the bonus from ego.
Your rank 3 quarry gives slightly more than 85% 43% and even more due to audacity.
You are not a good example of the 'average' 'silver' 'freeform' player, sorry.
I know, but that was more a reply to dex being all but useless now.
If some builds can get more out of ego, or str, I really don't see any problems in that.
Dex is still a very nice stat, it doesn't need any big buffs.
And nicely deduced all in all, I made one change to the gear, for ego I had crit rating mods, and for dex offense mods.
The problem is simply that nobody likes if they take away something you already owned and when you should pay to get it back, no matter if you really need it.
What would you say if the take away your Superstats and next they sell them in Lockboxes ? Heck i bet the game would still be too easy for you without Superstats .. but would you like if they do that ?
The best way for me to put what I have to say in words is:
Would EGO perform better than DEXTERITY on lesser gear?
I am too lazy to get said gear for at the end of the day should everyone not strive to reach the 'top'?
It is their choice to not reach the 'top' and I am not one to judge the happiness of others. If you are content then good for you! If you aren't content then I will suggest finding a way to make yourself that way but do not change yourself...you just admit defeat if you do..
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Example:
Rank 3 Aura of Radiant Protection can get up to 150%+ resistance to all damage while in the hybrid role. This is more than the current highest Defiance (22% per stack)
1066+195+188 Stats and Rank 3 Aura of Radiant Protection gives 161% Resistance to all Damage for Yourself in Hybrid Role.
The limitations of defiance and the fall of a great passive due to it scaling only on one specific superstat.(At least it has energy-gain function, then again aorp shields all allies within range with some bonus resistance too)
I'm confused. I've read what you wrote and I'm not sure what you want to say?
Is it:
1. That DEX - Crit Rating is ok because you can take X,Y specializations (again this pigeonholes you into picking certain specs, does not really allow for variety does it?)
2. That the gear used is far beyond the "average" player lvl and thus shows lvls of power that are not accessible to normal players.
I suspect it's the later but up until the last sentence I thought it was 1.
Even though this might not be that representative the point still remains namely EGO is better than DEX now. Even with the %dmg penetration from DEX it still does not make up for it. Ego gets a %dmg bonus from the stat itself, the higher it is the more you get so that works in EGO's favour + the ego tree has power cost discount (always useful) + Force of will (gives you Defense based on SSS, which is again useful). Not to mention the scaling direct %crit chance and %crit severity.
Would still belong to your powers because DEX boosts Form of the Tempest for melee and EGO Concentration and ranged damage.
DEX / FoTT however would now be no longer really an alternative to EGO / Conc on ranged toons i think.
Dex would not perform better than EGO/STR. I've shown the benefit you get from a DEX - Crit Rating combination which is a joke (~7% higher crit chance compared to using them individually).
On top of this you have STR who's spec tree is fantastic. You can get defense, cost discount, crit chance (flat) and crit severity (flat). Ego has similar specs to STR. And both of them give %dmg from the stat itself.
DEX on the other hand is not that amazing, sure there is the mastery and the defense penetration but again the less you crit the less that increased severity helps you + it has severe diminishing returns when combined with Crit Rating.
Basically DEX has extremely poor scaling. If you were to build a toon based on DEX + Crit Rating and one based on EGO + Crit Rating the more you would invest in DEX the less you would get while for EGO you would get more Crit Severity (if you add EGO) or Crit Chance (other SS) + EGO's inhered %dmg boost. In the case of DEX the more you put into it the less you get, you get Crit Severity from Secondary Super Stats.
I tried building both versions and the differences are absurd. The better gear you get and the higher the mods you have the better EGO - Crit Rating becomes while DEX - Crit Rating falls more an more behind. (same with STR - Crit Rating)
Try it yourself and you'll see what I mean.
I was putting what the person had posted into percentages instead of their numbers. It was me just pushing myself to deduce what the person had.
It is not a controlled variable for the person admitted to forgoing critical-strike for offense in the case of dexterity.
The spec trees are exactly the same except for the primary stat and mastery. The talent choices are exactly the same and the stats in gear are the same. The core mods differ, however.
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This part confuses me. Is repetition the goal of the person or is as much damage as humanly possible the goal of the person or is it some obscure goal that isn't mentioned?
We both are not the person with the build so we both cannot answer for them. From their choice of gear and powers I can infer but at the same time I will not be right unless they say it themselves.
For them dex is better in terms of pure total damage and dps.
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Spec trees differ and offer no controllable variables when you take them all into account.
Wait, the point of the DEX and EGO builds was to show that DEX is better?
Well that's weird because based on the pictures what I saw was something different.
Wait wait wait wait...I think I'm starting to understand what most people are doing now.
They are looking at the spec trees and seeing shiny numbers without taking into the account that they can only spend 10 points in each branch(5 of which can only be in tier 2).
They aren't applying them numbers they are merely looking at the shiny big numbers then restating and looking at the other shiny numbers and going "Well, dexterity doesn't have a spec tree option for this and it is blah blah".
They don't care that dexterity has a tier 2 spec that has upto 10% multiplicative bonus damage they only care that EGO has 'more critical chance' if they spend x/3 points in the spec tree.
Stop looking at the numbers and start applying them. You will see the difference if you APPLY.
BTW lower left hand corner of the SSes have the combat log. Dexterity does more overall damage and has more dps.
^Oh, but the person admitted to changing out critical-strike for offense when they used dexterity so take from that what you will.
EGO / STR a TWO Superstats .. of course they should be better than just one. If i want however to have also CON and REC then there is no place for STR. Question is only DEX or EGO or only STR instead.
This is not true. You are accusing me of things that are preposterous.
The 10% penetration you talk about is nothing much. EGO itself boosts the dmg by 20% at 70 EGO and it gets higher the more you invest in it.
Look at how DEX - Crit Rating and EGO - Crit Rating scales when you add better gear and higher mods. You will see the difference there.
Don't go assuming you know how I do things because you don't.
Lol I was saying EGO or STR not EGO and STR....
I was saying EGO SS + 2x other SSS OR STR SS + 2x oher SSS >>> than DEX SS + 2x other SSS.
Somehow you misunderstood me
I was saying people as a whole not specifically you. I am sorry if I made you feel that way.
10% from Exposed Weakness is multiplicative.
They changed EGO's damage bonus from additive to multiplicative?
Look at the lower left hand corner.
Dexterity has more total damage and more DPS.
My apologies then, I thought you were referring to me.
Well regarding the 2 pictures I see now why DEX is ahead. The builds are not equal. You don't build a EGO toon the same as an DEX toon. Having the same nr in both Primary SS for both DEX and EGO makes NO SENSE. In the DEX build you go optimized and put only as much as you need in EGO but in the EGO one you go WAY beyond what you need.
A better EGO build would be where you have around 150-200(max) EGO and the rest (from the 271 EGO) placed in DEX. Then you take one secondary offense and replace it with one that gives Crit Severity. You would do the same with one of the mods from the Primary Offense.
It's obvious that you don't have to push that much for EGO to get higher Crit Chance (due to the Spec tree) thus the focus should be NOT ON OFFENSE but Severity. That's why by placing 100 points from EGO into DEX it would boost Crit Chance (from DEX) as well as Crit Severity (from the EGO spec tree).
IMO only the DEX build is optimized the EGO one is not. For DEX they got more Offense since Crit Rating interacts horribly but with EGO they should have went and added more Severity and move ~100 point from EGO to DEX. That build would definitely out DPS the DEX one.
DEX and EGO builds are build differently. You (no you) can't go and copy the same configuration for both and claim a fair comparison. The EGO build has WAYY too much EGO. It needs to move it to DEX and then boost it's Crit Severity.
For the ego build you can't move ANY ego.
All 6 Mod slots are packed with INT.
The gear for, both, ego and dexterity is exactly the same except for dexterity they took out critical-strike in favor of offense.
The spec tree branches are exactly the same except one of ego and one of dexterity and both of them have their specific stat mastery.
The talent choices of the two are exactly the same.
What do you mean they can't. You can't reach 271 EGO without having invested in some EGO mods or have some gear that added EGO.
This is with vigilate gear, not an option to get less ego unless going for gear that gives less stats. That is also with 25% from vindicator/guardian specs, how would you get more severity? The only option as far as specs go would be changing the ego crit chance to the severity spec, but you dont want that if you are trying to get even less ego. For gear that was with justice gear and two crit chance mods, so you want to test with severity mods? One or two?
So can you give some concrete ideas things you would change, I am willing to do some more testing tomorrow.
The reason for changing out the mods form the primary offense is the scaling and DR issues. I tried keeping the builds as much the same as possible, but going with crit rating mods and dex primary is a little silly, and so would going ego with offense mods be.
Ego Primary
Int =5(Base) 28(Talents) 40(SS) 133.X(2 rank 9) 133.X(2rank 9) 133.X(2 rank 9) 25(Justice Gear Bonus) 20(Mastery)
Dex =5(Base) 22(Talents) 40(SS) 25(Justice Gear Bonus) 20 (Mastery)
Ego = 5(Base) 28(Talents) 80(SS)25(Justice Gear Bonus) 44.(Vigilante) 44(Vigilante) 44(Vigilante)
Dexterity Primary
Int =5(Base) 28(Talents) 40(SS) 133.X(2 rank 9) 133.X(2rank 9) 133.X(2 rank 9) 25(Justice Gear Bonus)
Dex =5(Base) 22(Talents) 80(SS) 25(Justice Gear Bonus) 44(Vigilante) 44(Vigilante) 44(Vigilante) 20 (Mastery)
Ego = 5(Base) 28(Talents) 40(SS)25(Justice Gear Bonus)
You really equate "taking away your superstats" with "reducing your dodge and crit levels somewhat" ?
You're going to have to point out how those are in any way similar. Removing super stats would actually make the game unplayable... so I would say "wow, they're making the game unplayable unless you pay, that sucks". That doesn't speak to your point at all though... since >>lowering<< dodge and crit is in no way similar to >>removing<< super stats.
Especially when you consider the fact that you won't have to pay to get the new gear either, just like you never had to pay for Legion gear.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Overall I guess you really went all out there with the gear. I would still not use the new gear compared to Legions. I would have used Legions with innate Severity Rating (~4-5 rating) and then add Crit Rating. Furthermore I would not have invested that much into INT and went with more EGO or DEX depending on how DR hit, potentially CON for survival.
There's secondary gear that grants severity?
PTS Critical Severity:
Base Severity is 50%
2.5 Severity grants 61.7%(This is justice gear)
4.6 Severity grants 63.7%(This is legion gear)
8.9 Severity grants 66.1%(This is legion gear+rank 5 severity core)
15 Severity grants 68.4% (I believe this was justice gear and 2 rank 5 severity cores before they 'nerfed' justice gear)
I don't have a secondary that gives severity, can you give some precise information and with gear I can get from the test npc on PTS. So exactly how many INT should be removed, and change them to EGO or to DEX?
Ups my bad. There is but it's from the old crafting system. Not available anymore
I would say you should go with Maybe 1 or 2 INT MODS and replace them with EGO. My reasoning is that EGO already has more Crit Chance and falls short on the Severity. Furthermore you should go with R3 on Follow Through. This combined with the HIGH Ego will give you quite a bit more Severity. (Since you don't have a secondary that gives sev)
Furthermoe by increasing your EGO you are increasing your Crit Chance which will counter the fact that you increase Follow Through to R3. Esentially with this change you should have relatively the same Crit Chance (maybe 1-2% less) but substantially more Severity (~10% or more based on my estimation, you'd have to test it to see it).