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Where STO is headed

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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    talonxv wrote: »
    > @azrael605 said:
    > Ugg, Year of Hell was junk, as for Equinox, I'd have spaced Ransom as soon as I found out about the experiments. Sisko had about the same depth as Lorca to be honest. Holding on to 6 century old grudges, commiting war crimes, lots of other problems. DS9 in general, as a lifelong reader of really good combat/military sci-fi DS9 just felt like an elementary school doing Apocalypse Now, then you have Alexander Siddig hating the augment storyline so much that he "phoned in" every scene involving it (he has talked about it), worst of all was Section 31 being inflicted on the franchise, which is part of why Voyager comes out ahead, S31 never taints it.

    Rather watch section 31 with its moral ambiguity than Voyager and being so squeaky clean. And Janeway comes off a bit holier than thou at times. Least Sisko had the guts to do what had to be done for the sake of the Federation.

    Nice to have ideals, but when billions die to say you upheld those ideals when if you got your hands dirty like Sisko did and prevented tbose deaths, I'd of done the same thing "In the Pale Moonlight." Janeway would of let those billions burn for her precious ideals.

    I mean look at Ransom. Did he do bad things? Yes. But did he keep his people alive? YES. What would Janeway of done if Voyager was in that bad of shape. Let her people die and keep her ideals or do what needed to be done to save her people?

    Problem is, we almost never saw Janeway in that kind of situation. And Voyager's premise was perfect situations to really put Janeway to the test. But we never really saw it.

    Hell Janeway in Endgame violated the temporal prime directive and changed the course of history for her own ends bringing Voyager home close to 20 years early.

    Really would of loved more principal vs survival scenarios. Especially with an actress of Kate Mulgrew's caliber.
    Janeway I feel would have done everything she could to save her people, short of committing genocide of an alien lifeform. You also have to remember that compared to the intrepid class, the Nova class was a ship that was much smaller and thus wasn't meant to be like the Intrepid class where they could take more hits and could hold up better. I think if Ransom had the Intrepid class, his experience may have been different.
    There was a bit of subtext that I think gets lost too easily. Namely that Ransom's ship was in bad shape because they'd decided to run the gauntlet through hostile territory. What would Janeway have done? fly around....
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    Ransom's is the ultimate racist argument. That the aliens he murdered were less important, less valuable than himself because they were different. That he was entitled to murder them and grind their bodies into fuel for his own convenience because they were not human and therefore inferior.

    Janeway would have stayed stranded in the delta quadrant rather than murder. The series even started with her intentionally stranding the ship in the delta quadrant to stop the kazon from taking over the Caretaker's array.
  • feralaffferalaff Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    Part of disco in STO's issue is timing.

    Because it arrived when it did VIL got cut short, with at least two mission opportunities missing from between tenebris and the final fling.

    Its arrival also seems to slapped a nail in the coffin for a klink civil war with jmpok the coward being all buddy buddy with martok, possibly because he was allowed out of his broom closet on DS9.

    There was also a possible plotlines of the jem hadar gaining more freedom, finding a solution to needing ketracel to survive but they stamped on that with the idiot getting himself killed rather than a nasty cut in his arm. Same way they killed off the interesting character and possible story using the jem hadar in the son'a lockbox promo episode.

    Potentially good story threads are starved because they're not fed enough (pun intended)

    EXACTLY!
    All good ideas and story possibilities.
    I may change opinion about discovery if J'ula would make some klingon mess at present time.

    But yes...VIL was cut short. Too short. There was more to tell.

    Everybody has a favourite show, some things enjoyed or not.
    Actually i don't like discovery show because:
    Too centered on single character Burnham the allmighty. Burnham is able to everything. Burnham is more powerful than wonder woman.
    Janeway, kira, jadzia, b'elanna were all better female characters.

    I didn't like that fungi magical idea. I just found that very odd.
    And, i am tired of prequels. Let's go on after Nemesis.

    If they wanted to make a different trek story, i would have chosen an alien captain (maybe andorian to explore more their culture).

    Or if they wanted a prequel... let's make some "point of view" episodes, centered on romulans...klingons....not as antagonists, but as main characters.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,613 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    asches1 wrote: »
    Now some time passed, since I've posted the post (see what I did there?:D) and I read through all of the comments about the topic. A lot of very intersting thoughts and arguments!

    I really liked them all.

    And I have to say: there are sadly too few forums, where you can have a civilized discussion about a topic. Where nobody starts to rant about it and put people down for their different opinions!
    This is a huge "plus" for you guys!

    Thanks for the shared opinions!

    Greets!

    Just wanted to give this a thumbs up, the best thing that can be done with a forum is to share perspectives, thoughts, and experience in a mutually respectful way. There's a lot to dive into with DSC, both internal to the production (ex. how themes are reinforced by character arcs and plot points) and to its mechanical interaction with the rest of the series. It's challenging, and of course imperfect because without perfect optimization there will always be a disconnect between intention and result (and in some cases, a big disconnect owing to constraint, judgement, or the difficulty in wrangling together a season to tell a consistent story [syndication can be a lot easier to approach, creatively, though in some respects very artificial].)

    I really like to get into that because it can help inform my appreciation for Trek (across the board) and adjust my own approach to creative writing in the Foundry (lessons can be applied to characters, themes, and managing audience engagement.) It's an objective puzzle which we can use to improve our approach to the IP, the game, and fellow community members. Forums can be a great venue to get into this.
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  • feralaffferalaff Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    discovery went out of their wy to prevent Klingons from ever being main-character fodder. I mean, could you imagine what those awkward, wooden, stiff, dull creatures Discovery gave us could do as main characters?? seriously would NOT work, they went out of their way to make Klingons boring and one dimensional single-note movie monsters.

    Of course i meant the original klingons....like worf, martok etc...
    Discovery space orcs....are space orcs. NOT klingons.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,371 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    talonxv wrote: »
    > @azrael605 said:
    > Ugg, Year of Hell was junk, as for Equinox, I'd have spaced Ransom as soon as I found out about the experiments. Sisko had about the same depth as Lorca to be honest. Holding on to 6 century old grudges, commiting war crimes, lots of other problems. DS9 in general, as a lifelong reader of really good combat/military sci-fi DS9 just felt like an elementary school doing Apocalypse Now, then you have Alexander Siddig hating the augment storyline so much that he "phoned in" every scene involving it (he has talked about it), worst of all was Section 31 being inflicted on the franchise, which is part of why Voyager comes out ahead, S31 never taints it.

    Rather watch section 31 with its moral ambiguity than Voyager and being so squeaky clean. And Janeway comes off a bit holier than thou at times. Least Sisko had the guts to do what had to be done for the sake of the Federation.

    Nice to have ideals, but when billions die to say you upheld those ideals when if you got your hands dirty like Sisko did and prevented tbose deaths, I'd of done the same thing "In the Pale Moonlight." Janeway would of let those billions burn for her precious ideals.

    I mean look at Ransom. Did he do bad things? Yes. But did he keep his people alive? YES. What would Janeway of done if Voyager was in that bad of shape. Let her people die and keep her ideals or do what needed to be done to save her people?

    Problem is, we almost never saw Janeway in that kind of situation. And Voyager's premise was perfect situations to really put Janeway to the test. But we never really saw it.

    Hell Janeway in Endgame violated the temporal prime directive and changed the course of history for her own ends bringing Voyager home close to 20 years early.

    Really would of loved more principal vs survival scenarios. Especially with an actress of Kate Mulgrew's caliber.
    Janeway I feel would have done everything she could to save her people, short of committing genocide of an alien lifeform. You also have to remember that compared to the intrepid class, the Nova class was a ship that was much smaller and thus wasn't meant to be like the Intrepid class where they could take more hits and could hold up better. I think if Ransom had the Intrepid class, his experience may have been different.
    There was a bit of subtext that I think gets lost too easily. Namely that Ransom's ship was in bad shape because they'd decided to run the gauntlet through hostile territory. What would Janeway have done? fly around....

    No, she wouldn't. 'Year of Hell' proves that. Even before the timeline changes that impacted Voyager Janeway was going to fly through Krenim/Zhal space (it was admittedly in dispute) - initially because the first Krenim ship they encountered was no threat.
    Then the timeline changes occurred and Voyager was being attacked by the now-more powerful Krenim Imperium for tresspassing in their space.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,613 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    feralaff wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    discovery went out of their wy to prevent Klingons from ever being main-character fodder. I mean, could you imagine what those awkward, wooden, stiff, dull creatures Discovery gave us could do as main characters?? seriously would NOT work, they went out of their way to make Klingons boring and one dimensional single-note movie monsters.

    Of course i meant the original klingons....like worf, martok etc...
    Discovery space orcs....are space orcs. NOT klingons.

    DSC Klingons = Klingons. See word: Klingons. They may be different Klingons, but they're still Klingons (just as the Klingons digitized by V'ger were still Klingons even though they shared only minor stylistic resemblance to the likes of Kang and Koloth.)
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,819 Arc User
    khan5000 wrote: »
    I’ve always felt like Ron Moore’s Battlestar Galactica was what Voyager should have been but not as dark

    What? You WANT empty sets (or sets filled with IKEA furniture) and A.I. droning on about the nature of existence? nuBSG should have been called "The Existential Cylon" and be done with it. ;)
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,836 Community Moderator
    The only time I can think of where Janeway legit considered going through hostile territory on purpose, was Borg space, and there was what appeared to be a safe corridor. Going around Borg Space would have added months to years to the journey, so in that case it was a situation that had to be weighed carefully.

    Ransom violated just about every regulation in the book when he started using those aliens as fuel for the Equinox. And then he actually opened fire on another Federation ship when they found out.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,819 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    they (Discovery's Klingorks) only share anything by nature of owner fiat, while the ones digitized by V'ger were at least capable of showing emotion and moving like someone NOT constrained while being constipated on a ship that looks, stylistically, like something excreted by a seagoing invertebrate.
    ^^^
    You really need to rewatch the opening Klingon Bridge sequence of ST:TMP.
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    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,036 Community Moderator
    I can't help but notice that this thread seems to not be discussing STO anymore, and is debating the various shows/movies. Can we please get back on the subject of the thread? Thank you.
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  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,249 Arc User
    > @baddmoonrizin said:
    > I can't help but notice that this thread seems to not be discussing STO anymore, and is debating the various shows/movies. Can we please get back on the subject of the thread? Thank you.

    Where's the fun in that?! /sarcasm
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  • keladorkelador Member Posts: 318 Arc User
    Honestly I give STO 12 months before it closes down its been heading that way for a few years now and the sub-par content and what appears to be even less content next year just screams the game is in trouble.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,371 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    kelador wrote: »
    Honestly I give STO 12 months before it closes down its been heading that way for a few years now and the sub-par content and what appears to be even less content next year just screams the game is in trouble.

    May I see the offical data and statistics from Cryptic upon which you based this claim please?
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Wait a min, I still got tons of stuff to do!!!!! No way am I letting them shut this puppy down. :)
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  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,249 Arc User
    > @kelador said:
    > Honestly I give STO 12 months before it closes down its been heading that way for a few years now and the sub-par content and what appears to be even less content next year just screams the game is in trouble.

    Oh boy here we go. DOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!
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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,775 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    kelador wrote: »
    Honestly I give STO 12 months before it closes down its been heading that way for a few years now and the sub-par content and what appears to be even less content next year just screams the game is in trouble.
    It's funny, some other guy gave the game 12 months to live 12 months ago. And some other idiot did the same 12 months before that. But hey, maybe this time you're right. Just maybe.
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  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,819 Arc User
    kelador wrote: »
    Honestly I give STO 12 months before it closes down its been heading that way for a few years now and the sub-par content and what appears to be even less content next year just screams the game is in trouble.

    Yep, it'sin such dire straights, they can afford to hire original cast members from EVERY STAR TREK SERIES MADE TO DATE to do voice over work for the game - and ave done so for going on 8 years now...<--- Yep, they must have really not made a dime to be able to do that...oh, wait...
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  • captainwellscaptainwells Member Posts: 718 Arc User
    I've played Star Trek Online on Xbox One from the moment that the game dropped onto consoles and I enjoy it quite a bit. I don't mind the repetitive quality inherent after creating over a dozen characters. I'm not too put off by the lock boxes, I say either open them or not. It's a choice. I may not be a fan of Discovery, but am curious to see what AoD content unfolds in this game.

    That being said, STO clearly suffers from a huge case of "two steps forward and three steps back" syndrome in how Cryptic rolls out new content. Spoilers don't bother me, so I've already watched the AoD episodes on YouTube. Maybe its just me, but I fail to see why a new Disco character had to leave their era already, when we have been told that more content is forthcoming (we've even been shown the time frame for the next few months)? So why not just have left them there until all AoD era content ultimately ran its course and THEN have them end up in the [blankety-blank] observatory .... with you know who?

    As an aside, I really enjoyed creating a TOS character with Agents of Yesterday, but would have dearly preferred having them remain in that era for far longer; hell for my dollars eventually allowing for an original series Klingon character to become a temporal agent as well with content telling the story from their perspective. Sort of a no-brainer that seemingly never occurred to anyone developing this game?

    If getting every created character into 2410 is the whole point then why not just incorporate elements from earlier broadcast fare and simply reintroduce it into this games default era to begin with? AoD may be slowly unfolding its content without benefit of a recruitment event, so why they felt it necessary to so swiftly implement a time bounce is beyond me? And if your rebuttal is that an AoD would not have had much to do until each new episode was prepared, then perhaps rushed is the only way to view this content?
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,555 Arc User
    It's amazing how if you take a little time away from dwelling on things that bug you, a lot of times, they don't bug you that much anymore...

    I remember well how TOS fans reacted when TNG was first announced and when it first aired. I was one of those fans, and I didn't really like what Encounter at Farpoint presented as the new form Star Trek was taking. But back then, the only people I could grumble about it with were friends and family who happened to like Star Trek as well.

    Now Discovery is the new form Star Trek is taking, and I, along with a whole bunch of other people can rage about it in forums like this. It doesn't cange the fact that none of us have a say in what CBS/Paramount do/did with Star Trek. We either like what we see or we don't. We either watch it or we don't. And whether we like it or not, Discovery IS official Star Trek canon, and in an MMO designed to encompass as much Star Trek canon as its licensing allows, Discovery has a place of special distinction, as it is presently the only live-running Star Trek series.

    I have said before that my real beef with CBS over discovery has more to do with its distribution model than it does with the show itself. Had it come out on regular TV like most of its predecessors, or had it just been released on Netflix in the US the way it was in the rest of the world, I would have watched it by now. Until it show up on Amazon Prime or Netflix, like the rest of the Star Trek shows, I refuse to watch it.

    I am about to reinstall STO on a new computer. And I will be rolling an AoD toon. After all, it IS new content in a game I am already playing.

    It's part of Star Trek canon. It's part of STO. We need to get used to that fact. Raging against it won't make it go away, either as a show or part of a game. I'm not saying we have to LIKE it. But I for one, now that I've gotten over myself, will give the Age of Discovery content a fair chance.
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,930 Arc User
    kelador wrote: »
    Honestly I give STO 12 months before it closes down its been heading that way for a few years now and the sub-par content and what appears to be even less content next year just screams the game is in trouble.

    I'm fairly certain that I'm not the only one here who remembers reading these kinds of ridiculous posts after every update since STO launched.

    Here we are - 8 years later and counting...
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,555 Arc User
    kelador wrote: »
    Honestly I give STO 12 months before it closes down its been heading that way for a few years now and the sub-par content and what appears to be even less content next year just screams the game is in trouble.

    It's not necessarily less content going into the game, but more likely just less of what some of us are wanting. And as long as enough revenue keeps coming in to cover the expenses, the gam will be in no danger of shutting down.

    We have to stop thinking that what we as individuals personally want is representative of what the playerbase wants. A lot of people hate Discovery. A lot of people like it. A lot of people like ALL things Star Trek. Between the second and third of these groups, thee is more than enough players to keep interest and profits up.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,955 Arc User
    Even if someone hates DIscovery and Discovery Klingons with the fiery hatred of 1,000 suns, it could still be that STO manages to make some interesting stories (or ships) out of it.

    STO writers love to pick some loose plot threads from the series and spin some new yarn from it. Some of it is fairly intriguing, some of it might be vapid. But you never know before they released it and you saw the content.
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  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,480 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    The series even started with her intentionally stranding the ship in the delta quadrant to stop the kazon from taking over the Caretaker's array.

    In direct violation of the Prime Directive.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,775 Arc User
    tigeraries wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    The series even started with her intentionally stranding the ship in the delta quadrant to stop the kazon from taking over the Caretaker's array.

    In direct violation of the Prime Directive.

    Not true. The caretaker asked for help.
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  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,819 Arc User
    tigeraries wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    The series even started with her intentionally stranding the ship in the delta quadrant to stop the kazon from taking over the Caretaker's array.

    In direct violation of the Prime Directive.

    Not true. The caretaker asked for help.
    ^^^
    So did the Bajorans when the Cardassians invaded; but Starfleet and the Federation turned a blind eye. Plus, I wouldn't call the power the Caretaker held over the planet all that benevolent. hell, with neither the Caretaker OR the Okanpan homeworld being citizens or members of the Federation - Janeway should have taken the wave back home and made a log entry per 24th century Prime Directive standards. ;)
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,613 Arc User
    Would like another ship bundle right about now...an Nimitz is not enough for my DSC character!
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