I actually am excited for the Discovery content. Even been running around in my Crossfield and have Discovery era outfits on my crew. I do wish there was more of it. Sucks they didn't have more ready for the holidays but I get they want to launch it alongside Discovery S2. Honestly doing it this way might draw some new blood into the game. Something any MMO can always use.
Lol, ESD constantly has 10+ full instances. People that say it's empty don't know what they're talking about.
except, some of us remember when Qo'noS routinely had 10+ instances going during the weekdays (good luck getting that active during a weekend now) and that was at time when KDF required you to first level a Fed to 25, there was no tutorial mission, etc. etc.
and ESD had mid-double digit instances... during the WEEK. during off-hours, during the non-peak times.
you're mentioning peak activity in the NOW, but DS9 used to have more instances on average (hell, Drozana used to have more) going than your Peak ESD numbers today.
which kinda suggests that maybe it's NOT so busy as you're implying, esp. from a historical perspective-it may even suggest that while theere are over a million characters created, and accounts into the hundreds of thousands, actual activityin the game is LOW, esp. compared to what it once was.
Anecdotal population figures =/= real data, you have to assume that players are using social hubs in the same frequency and relative proportions, presuming that there have been no meaningful changes to STO player behavior over the years, the structure and number of potential population sinks (both hubs and other activities), and in general the game's ecosystem. Any changes in the game's balance or structure, and the accompanying forces and mechanics that influence population distribution, will skew the comparison. Ex. players spending more time in gameplay related activities now than in these halcyon days of yore because there is quite simply more to do with years of added development (zones, episodes, partols, and many times more PVE's.) There's no way of accounting for this, ie. a full alternate hypothesis, which is damning for the assertion that we should be taking your "numbers" at face value.
The fair comparison would be to look at overall population data (ie. stuff internal to cryptic) rather than convenience sampling (a red flag term in statistics) from immediately available sources while hand-waving unaccounted for variation. There's just nothing that can meaningfully be said from that approach. So, stuff the attempt. You can make the point that STO hasn't been satisfying niche interests as much as it should without having to try invoking population arguments (just look at the amount and rate of Foundry development and the effects that's had over the last year or so on active Foundry authors, which in turns affects those who utilize their output to stay invested with the game [particularly between major drops, which official rate of development cannot reasonably fill]. Slicing that off to perpetually prioritize "majority" interests in dev time narrows the game's appeal in a very direct way [and with respect to a system that competitors simply don't have].)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Funny you should use social zones as a metric of "actual activity," considering the primary reason for most players to be loitering around on ESD is if they had nothing better to do.
STO's development focus being on solo action has definitely redirected players away from anything resembling social behavior, though. Players are more often out doing things by themselves than talking to anyone. Even the designated group content requires no coordination whatsoever.
Funny you should use social zones as a metric of "actual activity," considering the primary reason for most players to be loitering around on ESD is if they had nothing better to do.
STO's development focus being on solo action has definitely redirected players away from anything resembling social behavior, though. Players are more often out doing things by themselves than talking to anyone. Even the designated group content requires no coordination whatsoever.
OBVIOUSLY that's one answer, but then we get the "Queues don't pop" for the last two or three years on top of it.
It's not so much "queues don't pop" as "most queues don't pop." As in, only the most reward-efficient ones popped. Randoms have altered that dynamic a bit now. Not to mention people grinding T6 reps.
But yes, queues in general are in a decline particularly after Admiralty allowed players to get their quota of dil to refine almost every day without playing anything at all.
Reason to play...it's missing from a lot of content.
Social zones are actually a really bad way to measure player numbers these days. Because of how much of the game has been dumbed down to simple menu clicks and windows opened from the UI, together with things like the S.S. Azura and Karemena exchange comms many players don't ever need to go to a social zone to carry out their daily business.
And you've got ships with ex/bank/mail access too which thin the numbers even more.
I reckon a lot of players just spend time on their bridges, or on non-social maps (missions, fleet holdings, sector space) so seem invisible to most.
Lol, ESD constantly has 10+ full instances. People that say it's empty don't know what they're talking about.
except, some of us remember when Qo'noS routinely had 10+ instances going during the weekdays (good luck getting that active during a weekend now) and that was at time when KDF required you to first level a Fed to 25, there was no tutorial mission, etc. etc.
and ESD had mid-double digit instances... during the WEEK. during off-hours, during the non-peak times.
you're mentioning peak activity in the NOW, but DS9 used to have more instances on average (hell, Drozana used to have more) going than your Peak ESD numbers today.
which kinda suggests that maybe it's NOT so busy as you're implying, esp. from a historical perspective-it may even suggest that while theere are over a million characters created, and accounts into the hundreds of thousands, actual activityin the game is LOW, esp. compared to what it once was.
been paing since closed beta in 2009 - You never saw Qo'nos with 10+ instances and the only time ESD got over 30 instances were during large expansion launches.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Well, ESD is still a very attractive social hub, but lately, I spend more time on DS9, mostly so I can do the Trade assignments for Gamma Quadrant commodities. So many of my characters still haven't completed the related assignment chain, and the assignments often give more XP than other DOFF assignments.
The only thing DS9 currently doesn't offer is easy access to Starfleet Academy.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
With an account name like "ASCHES", which is a transliteration of the word 'ashes', I'd say you've had a negative outlook on this game or even I.P. as your agenda from the beginning. I think you're looking for other burn-outs to join your ash heap. I don't appreciate your negativity and I decline to participate in your conflagration of Star Trek, in any of its various forms.
Let's stop griping about percieved inactivity, and once again turn our eyes to 'where is this going?'
the crew at Cryptic have pretty much eradicated the following as possible threats;
Borg
Cardassians (True Way and others)
Dominion
Fek'Ihri
Hur'q
Iconians
Romulan Empire (Tal Shi'ar and others)
Voth
etc. etc. etc.
every single appearance by every major opponent has resulted in a clean, total victory thus far. No stalemates, no possibility of recurring threats to Federation Hegemony, really no reason for any future alliances since everyone's fated to be absorbed or annihilated anyway.
What is there LEFT to provide challenges? to provide drama and tension?
Nothing. even time-travelling baddies are easily overcome and defeated by "The Hero Captain", and will be, too, and it's predictably so.
Not a SINGLE conflict, no matter how small or how 'epic" (and I use the term "Epic" very loosely here) has resulted in a stalemate or shaky, unstable peace. Not one conflict even has the potential to be revisited since Legacy of Romulus. Baddies are easily dispatched with minimal effort, the damage they do is papered over and seamlessly gone within almost no time at all, and the threat is ended permanently on a regular, even clockwork basis.
Nothing but clear wins as far as the eye can see.
Let's see:
-Borg: We kill the queen in that STF...which means jack squat. She's been killed every time she shows up in canon and it never means anything.
-True Way: We beat some of them, but nothing definitive.
-Dominion: Become our allies...or at least some of them do. How many founders agreed with the evil one?
-Fek'Ihri: Are very much alive and last seen duking it out with the hur'q.
-Hur'q: are cured of their insanity, remains to be seen what they make of it.
-Iconians: Go home for the time being, except T'ket who is still out there plotting revenge.
-RSE: Sort of disintegrated in the background. Always room for lost remnants, I wouldn't put much trust in Sela saying those were her last followers...she's a liar. Sela herself is still at large as well.
-Voth: Are quietly forgotten soon after the dyson sphere plot is over. Last seen in Borg Disconnected, very much un-eradicated.
-Undine: We make peace with their living super-dreadnought. Whether the undine themselves are any more in agreement with it than fake!Cooper was, is unknown.
-Tzenkethi: We stop their genocide-fleet, but never actually engage them offensively at all.
-Terran Empire: We defeat their attack forces a few times, but never engage them offensively.
-Na'kuhl: Get their star back, eventually. Which won't stop us from continuing to encounter the time-travelers that were sent into the past before that happened. Honestly, given how the player character is the only one in the universe that can get anything done, I would expect we have to go fix the star ourselves eventually, too.
-Krenim: Noye's group gets wiped. I suppose it's possible none of the rest agree with him, but I wouldn't bet on it.
-Sphere builders, vorgons: We stop their plots but they're still out there.
-Tholians: Out there, being mysterious.
-Vaadwaur: We killed Gaul and the other guys don't seem to be as bad...which isn't necessarily saying they're good either.
> @warpangel said: > patrickngo wrote: » > > Let's stop griping about percieved inactivity, and once again turn our eyes to 'where is this going?' > > the crew at Cryptic have pretty much eradicated the following as possible threats; > > Borg > Cardassians (True Way and others) > Dominion > Fek'Ihri > Hur'q > Iconians > Romulan Empire (Tal Shi'ar and others) > Voth > etc. etc. etc. > > every single appearance by every major opponent has resulted in a clean, total victory thus far. No stalemates, no possibility of recurring threats to Federation Hegemony, really no reason for any future alliances since everyone's fated to be absorbed or annihilated anyway. > > What is there LEFT to provide challenges? to provide drama and tension? > > Nothing. even time-travelling baddies are easily overcome and defeated by "The Hero Captain", and will be, too, and it's predictably so. > > Not a SINGLE conflict, no matter how small or how 'epic" (and I use the term "Epic" very loosely here) has resulted in a stalemate or shaky, unstable peace. Not one conflict even has the potential to be revisited since Legacy of Romulus. Baddies are easily dispatched with minimal effort, the damage they do is papered over and seamlessly gone within almost no time at all, and the threat is ended permanently on a regular, even clockwork basis. > > Nothing but clear wins as far as the eye can see. > > > > Let's see: > > -Borg: We kill the queen in that STF...which means jack squat. She's been killed every time she shows up in canon and it never means anything. > -True Way: We beat some of them, but nothing definitive. > -Dominion: Become our allies...or at least some of them do. How many founders agreed with the evil one? > -Fek'Ihri: Are very much alive and last seen duking it out with the hur'q. > -Hur'q: are cured of their insanity, remains to be seen what they make of it. > -Iconians: Go home for the time being, except T'ket who is still out there plotting revenge. > -RSE: Sort of disintegrated in the background. Always room for lost remnants, I wouldn't put much trust in Sela saying those were her last followers...she's a liar. Sela herself is still at large as well. > -Voth: Are quietly forgotten soon after the dyson sphere plot is over. Last seen in Borg Disconnected, very much un-eradicated. > -Undine: We make peace with their living super-dreadnought. Whether the undine themselves are any more in agreement with it than fake!Cooper was, is unknown. > -Tzenkethi: We stop their genocide-fleet, but never actually engage them offensively at all. > -Terran Empire: We defeat their attack forces a few times, but never engage them offensively. > -Na'kuhl: Get their star back, eventually. Which won't stop us from continuing to encounter the time-travelers that were sent into the past before that happened. Honestly, given how the player character is the only one in the universe that can get anything done, I would expect we have to go fix the star ourselves eventually, too. > -Krenim: Noye's group gets wiped. I suppose it's possible none of the rest agree with him, but I wouldn't bet on it. > -Sphere builders, vorgons: We stop their plots but they're still out there. > -Tholians: Out there, being mysterious. > -Vaadwaur: We killed Gaul and the other guys don't seem to be as bad...which isn't necessarily saying they're good either. > > Who got eradicated?
Fun part is, we now have a gateway to the Andromeda Galaxy. Who knows what is over there. We may see some serious s***.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
-RSE: Sort of disintegrated in the background. Always room for lost remnants, I wouldn't put much trust in Sela saying those were her last followers...she's a liar. Sela herself is still at large as well.
ACTUALLY... Sela is in Federation custody after the events of Survivor. Last we see she is in a cell, and none other than Data visits her, and Sela asks him to tell her about her mother. And we KNOW its Data despite never seeing his face because
A: Skin color matches Data.
B: Hair style is Data's.
C: Most telling piece of evidence... in posession of the hologram of Tasha Yar.
-RSE: Sort of disintegrated in the background. Always room for lost remnants, I wouldn't put much trust in Sela saying those were her last followers...she's a liar. Sela herself is still at large as well.
ACTUALLY... Sela is in Federation custody after the events of Survivor. Last we see she is in a cell, and none other than Data visits her, and Sela asks him to tell her about her mother. And we KNOW its Data despite never seeing his face because
A: Skin color matches Data.
B: Hair style is Data's.
C: Most telling piece of evidence... in posession of the hologram of Tasha Yar.
Hmmm...forgot that. She's been in and out of "custody" so many times.
Though that does remind being in prison is not really a plot block either.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,533Community Moderator
Well... this time Sela willingly submitted so... who knows.
Anyways... I definitely feel that the mention of Gateways in Andromeda is a door that can be opened in the future. Although we do have quite a bit of the Delta Quadrant still unexplored too.
The Kelvans from TOS originally left the Andromeda Galaxy due to rising radiation levels which would render that galaxy uninhabitable to their species. I think that would be an interesting plot thread to pick up. Perhaps the rising radiation levels were due to something the Iconians were doing while they were there. The Kelvans could discover that the Iconians were responsible and come looking for retribution by invading the Milky Way.
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The Kelvans from TOS originally left the Andromeda Galaxy due to rising radiation levels which would render that galaxy uninhabitable to their species. I think that would be an interesting plot thread to pick up. Perhaps the rising radiation levels were due to something the Iconians were doing while they were there. The Kelvans could discover that the Iconians were responsible and come looking for retribution by invading the Milky Way.
In the real world Andromeda has "recently" collided with and swallowed up a several smaller galaxies so it could be some sort of natural disaster they fled away from. And star creation there has almost ceased going by our observations, so it could be said in a story that the place is dying off for some reason.
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,533Community Moderator
Um... no.
There is no reference to smaller Herald Spheres at all. There's the big Iconian one, that is generally referred to as the Herald Sphere, in the Iconia System, there's Solanae, and there's Jenolan. There is absolutely no reference to anything beyond that.
So... um... source? Because the STF Herald Sphere is the same Sphere we see at the start of the Iconian War arc. We're just hitting the Gateway Hub inside of said Sphere.
And there's no point in making moon sized spheres when you got that big one in Iconia.
Comments
Anecdotal population figures =/= real data, you have to assume that players are using social hubs in the same frequency and relative proportions, presuming that there have been no meaningful changes to STO player behavior over the years, the structure and number of potential population sinks (both hubs and other activities), and in general the game's ecosystem. Any changes in the game's balance or structure, and the accompanying forces and mechanics that influence population distribution, will skew the comparison. Ex. players spending more time in gameplay related activities now than in these halcyon days of yore because there is quite simply more to do with years of added development (zones, episodes, partols, and many times more PVE's.) There's no way of accounting for this, ie. a full alternate hypothesis, which is damning for the assertion that we should be taking your "numbers" at face value.
The fair comparison would be to look at overall population data (ie. stuff internal to cryptic) rather than convenience sampling (a red flag term in statistics) from immediately available sources while hand-waving unaccounted for variation. There's just nothing that can meaningfully be said from that approach. So, stuff the attempt. You can make the point that STO hasn't been satisfying niche interests as much as it should without having to try invoking population arguments (just look at the amount and rate of Foundry development and the effects that's had over the last year or so on active Foundry authors, which in turns affects those who utilize their output to stay invested with the game [particularly between major drops, which official rate of development cannot reasonably fill]. Slicing that off to perpetually prioritize "majority" interests in dev time narrows the game's appeal in a very direct way [and with respect to a system that competitors simply don't have].)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
STO's development focus being on solo action has definitely redirected players away from anything resembling social behavior, though. Players are more often out doing things by themselves than talking to anyone. Even the designated group content requires no coordination whatsoever.
But yes, queues in general are in a decline particularly after Admiralty allowed players to get their quota of dil to refine almost every day without playing anything at all.
Reason to play...it's missing from a lot of content.
And you've got ships with ex/bank/mail access too which thin the numbers even more.
I reckon a lot of players just spend time on their bridges, or on non-social maps (missions, fleet holdings, sector space) so seem invisible to most.
been paing since closed beta in 2009 - You never saw Qo'nos with 10+ instances and the only time ESD got over 30 instances were during large expansion launches.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
The only thing DS9 currently doesn't offer is easy access to Starfleet Academy.
With an account name like "ASCHES", which is a transliteration of the word 'ashes', I'd say you've had a negative outlook on this game or even I.P. as your agenda from the beginning. I think you're looking for other burn-outs to join your ash heap. I don't appreciate your negativity and I decline to participate in your conflagration of Star Trek, in any of its various forms.
Live long and prosper, Asches.
-Borg: We kill the queen in that STF...which means jack squat. She's been killed every time she shows up in canon and it never means anything.
-True Way: We beat some of them, but nothing definitive.
-Dominion: Become our allies...or at least some of them do. How many founders agreed with the evil one?
-Fek'Ihri: Are very much alive and last seen duking it out with the hur'q.
-Hur'q: are cured of their insanity, remains to be seen what they make of it.
-Iconians: Go home for the time being, except T'ket who is still out there plotting revenge.
-RSE: Sort of disintegrated in the background. Always room for lost remnants, I wouldn't put much trust in Sela saying those were her last followers...she's a liar. Sela herself is still at large as well.
-Voth: Are quietly forgotten soon after the dyson sphere plot is over. Last seen in Borg Disconnected, very much un-eradicated.
-Undine: We make peace with their living super-dreadnought. Whether the undine themselves are any more in agreement with it than fake!Cooper was, is unknown.
-Tzenkethi: We stop their genocide-fleet, but never actually engage them offensively at all.
-Terran Empire: We defeat their attack forces a few times, but never engage them offensively.
-Na'kuhl: Get their star back, eventually. Which won't stop us from continuing to encounter the time-travelers that were sent into the past before that happened. Honestly, given how the player character is the only one in the universe that can get anything done, I would expect we have to go fix the star ourselves eventually, too.
-Krenim: Noye's group gets wiped. I suppose it's possible none of the rest agree with him, but I wouldn't bet on it.
-Sphere builders, vorgons: We stop their plots but they're still out there.
-Tholians: Out there, being mysterious.
-Vaadwaur: We killed Gaul and the other guys don't seem to be as bad...which isn't necessarily saying they're good either.
Who got eradicated?
> patrickngo wrote: »
>
> Let's stop griping about percieved inactivity, and once again turn our eyes to 'where is this going?'
>
> the crew at Cryptic have pretty much eradicated the following as possible threats;
>
> Borg
> Cardassians (True Way and others)
> Dominion
> Fek'Ihri
> Hur'q
> Iconians
> Romulan Empire (Tal Shi'ar and others)
> Voth
> etc. etc. etc.
>
> every single appearance by every major opponent has resulted in a clean, total victory thus far. No stalemates, no possibility of recurring threats to Federation Hegemony, really no reason for any future alliances since everyone's fated to be absorbed or annihilated anyway.
>
> What is there LEFT to provide challenges? to provide drama and tension?
>
> Nothing. even time-travelling baddies are easily overcome and defeated by "The Hero Captain", and will be, too, and it's predictably so.
>
> Not a SINGLE conflict, no matter how small or how 'epic" (and I use the term "Epic" very loosely here) has resulted in a stalemate or shaky, unstable peace. Not one conflict even has the potential to be revisited since Legacy of Romulus. Baddies are easily dispatched with minimal effort, the damage they do is papered over and seamlessly gone within almost no time at all, and the threat is ended permanently on a regular, even clockwork basis.
>
> Nothing but clear wins as far as the eye can see.
>
>
>
> Let's see:
>
> -Borg: We kill the queen in that STF...which means jack squat. She's been killed every time she shows up in canon and it never means anything.
> -True Way: We beat some of them, but nothing definitive.
> -Dominion: Become our allies...or at least some of them do. How many founders agreed with the evil one?
> -Fek'Ihri: Are very much alive and last seen duking it out with the hur'q.
> -Hur'q: are cured of their insanity, remains to be seen what they make of it.
> -Iconians: Go home for the time being, except T'ket who is still out there plotting revenge.
> -RSE: Sort of disintegrated in the background. Always room for lost remnants, I wouldn't put much trust in Sela saying those were her last followers...she's a liar. Sela herself is still at large as well.
> -Voth: Are quietly forgotten soon after the dyson sphere plot is over. Last seen in Borg Disconnected, very much un-eradicated.
> -Undine: We make peace with their living super-dreadnought. Whether the undine themselves are any more in agreement with it than fake!Cooper was, is unknown.
> -Tzenkethi: We stop their genocide-fleet, but never actually engage them offensively at all.
> -Terran Empire: We defeat their attack forces a few times, but never engage them offensively.
> -Na'kuhl: Get their star back, eventually. Which won't stop us from continuing to encounter the time-travelers that were sent into the past before that happened. Honestly, given how the player character is the only one in the universe that can get anything done, I would expect we have to go fix the star ourselves eventually, too.
> -Krenim: Noye's group gets wiped. I suppose it's possible none of the rest agree with him, but I wouldn't bet on it.
> -Sphere builders, vorgons: We stop their plots but they're still out there.
> -Tholians: Out there, being mysterious.
> -Vaadwaur: We killed Gaul and the other guys don't seem to be as bad...which isn't necessarily saying they're good either.
>
> Who got eradicated?
Fun part is, we now have a gateway to the Andromeda Galaxy. Who knows what is over there. We may see some serious s***.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
ACTUALLY... Sela is in Federation custody after the events of Survivor. Last we see she is in a cell, and none other than Data visits her, and Sela asks him to tell her about her mother. And we KNOW its Data despite never seeing his face because
A: Skin color matches Data.
B: Hair style is Data's.
C: Most telling piece of evidence... in posession of the hologram of Tasha Yar.
Though that does remind being in prison is not really a plot block either.
Anyways... I definitely feel that the mention of Gateways in Andromeda is a door that can be opened in the future. Although we do have quite a bit of the Delta Quadrant still unexplored too.
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In the real world Andromeda has "recently" collided with and swallowed up a several smaller galaxies so it could be some sort of natural disaster they fled away from. And star creation there has almost ceased going by our observations, so it could be said in a story that the place is dying off for some reason.
There is no reference to smaller Herald Spheres at all. There's the big Iconian one, that is generally referred to as the Herald Sphere, in the Iconia System, there's Solanae, and there's Jenolan. There is absolutely no reference to anything beyond that.
So... um... source? Because the STF Herald Sphere is the same Sphere we see at the start of the Iconian War arc. We're just hitting the Gateway Hub inside of said Sphere.
And there's no point in making moon sized spheres when you got that big one in Iconia.