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Where STO is headed

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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 56,303 Community Moderator
    Wow... someone predicting DOOOOOOOOM. Been a while since I saw that. Wait... all the complaints about adding Discovery related content killing the game...

    Looks like its still alive to me.
    Where's the DOOOOOOM?

    Buried in the ancient DOOOOOOOM thread. God I miss that thread. Was fun to poke fun at all the doomsayers.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,490 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    talonxv wrote: »
    Wrong. But nice try as CBS has said the shows and movies ARE canon. The books, games and other externals are not. So that point is moot and you are wrong. Any other points you want to try and pivot to?

    I think the only Enterprise we got a firm size on, that I remember mind you, was the Enterprise-E in First Contact when Picard was telling Lilly how big the ship is, stating she was about 700 meters and 24 decks. But then I think we have the issue of non existant decks being called out during battle scenes, and apparently she went through a refit between FC and Insurrection, and again between Insurrection and Nemesis.

    Another size anomaly is in the '09 Star Trek, where the first time we see the Enterprise, she's got a shuttlebay big enough for two of the "military" shuttles to go in and out side by side and have some room to spare. But then when we see Pike take a shuttle out... the shuttlebay only has enough room for that same class of shuttle to come out on its own, making her about the same size as the original.

    There are the official sizes, there are the fan accepted sizes (which mostly line up with official most of the time), and there's headcanon sizes.

    The TOS Connie is generally accepted at around 285 meters. Official... I have no idea as I don't remember the size of the Connie ever being stated on screen. Officially the size of the Sovereign is 685 meters, which lines up with Picard generalizing around 700. I headcanon the KT Connie at 366 meters due to the fact that she changes size in the same movie she was revealed in and the details line up more with a smaller ship than larger.

    If the Discovery version was scaled up... they obviously made sure to keep the DETAILS size appropriate. Besides... length is only one measurement. MASS is another. Scale wise, the Discovery Connie is proportionately the same as the TOS one. Neck is a bit shorter, but its thicker too. Maybe about as thick as the Refit Connie. The swept back nacelle pylons would add some length as well vs the straight pylons. But overall she's within the same proportions as her origin.

    Bit bigger or not, the design for her is very well done. I can easily see her fighting the Romulan BoP, Klingon D7s, and even the Tholians.

    it get even better when you move on to Defiant, who seems to inflate and deflate moe than Tom Brady's footballs
    Spock.jpg

  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,490 Arc User
    kelador wrote: »
    Honestly I give STO 12 months before it closes down its been heading that way for a few years now and the sub-par content and what appears to be even less content next year just screams the game is in trouble.

    Yep, it'sin such dire straights, they can afford to hire original cast members from EVERY STAR TREK SERIES MADE TO DATE to do voice over work for the game - and ave done so for going on 8 years now...<--- Yep, they must have really not made a dime to be able to do that...oh, wait...

    and honestly, I think they should have stayed away from that. that money could have been better used with additional staff
    Spock.jpg

  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,490 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Wow... someone predicting DOOOOOOOOM. Been a while since I saw that. Wait... all the complaints about adding Discovery related content killing the game...

    Looks like its still alive to me.
    Where's the DOOOOOOM?

    Buried in the ancient DOOOOOOOM thread. God I miss that thread. Was fun to poke fun at all the doomsayers.

    you know I always hear "But ESD is empty now!" umm because a good portion of PC players are playing on the console server(s)? do the consoles have thier own?
    Spock.jpg

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    "ESD is empty" lol.... could just mean less people are idle while logged in. :p

    As for how popular the Star Trek: Discovery stuff is? When I was at Disco SFA I talked to another player who was in Instance 988... nine HUNDRED eighty eight.
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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Lol, ESD constantly has 10+ full instances. People that say it's empty don't know what they're talking about.
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  • rylinshriarylinshria Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    I actually am excited for the Discovery content. Even been running around in my Crossfield and have Discovery era outfits on my crew. I do wish there was more of it. Sucks they didn't have more ready for the holidays but I get they want to launch it alongside Discovery S2. Honestly doing it this way might draw some new blood into the game. Something any MMO can always use.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    Lol you’ll rarely see ESD empty apart from times lie early morning (8am ish) EU time when most people are going to work/school.
    SulMatuul.png
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    Lol, ESD constantly has 10+ full instances. People that say it's empty don't know what they're talking about.
    I wouldn't be at all surprised some people don't even know what instances are.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,624 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Lol, ESD constantly has 10+ full instances. People that say it's empty don't know what they're talking about.

    except, some of us remember when Qo'noS routinely had 10+ instances going during the weekdays (good luck getting that active during a weekend now) and that was at time when KDF required you to first level a Fed to 25, there was no tutorial mission, etc. etc.

    and ESD had mid-double digit instances... during the WEEK. during off-hours, during the non-peak times.

    you're mentioning peak activity in the NOW, but DS9 used to have more instances on average (hell, Drozana used to have more) going than your Peak ESD numbers today.

    which kinda suggests that maybe it's NOT so busy as you're implying, esp. from a historical perspective-it may even suggest that while theere are over a million characters created, and accounts into the hundreds of thousands, actual activityin the game is LOW, esp. compared to what it once was.

    Anecdotal population figures =/= real data, you have to assume that players are using social hubs in the same frequency and relative proportions, presuming that there have been no meaningful changes to STO player behavior over the years, the structure and number of potential population sinks (both hubs and other activities), and in general the game's ecosystem. Any changes in the game's balance or structure, and the accompanying forces and mechanics that influence population distribution, will skew the comparison. Ex. players spending more time in gameplay related activities now than in these halcyon days of yore because there is quite simply more to do with years of added development (zones, episodes, partols, and many times more PVE's.) There's no way of accounting for this, ie. a full alternate hypothesis, which is damning for the assertion that we should be taking your "numbers" at face value.

    The fair comparison would be to look at overall population data (ie. stuff internal to cryptic) rather than convenience sampling (a red flag term in statistics) from immediately available sources while hand-waving unaccounted for variation. There's just nothing that can meaningfully be said from that approach. So, stuff the attempt. You can make the point that STO hasn't been satisfying niche interests as much as it should without having to try invoking population arguments (just look at the amount and rate of Foundry development and the effects that's had over the last year or so on active Foundry authors, which in turns affects those who utilize their output to stay invested with the game [particularly between major drops, which official rate of development cannot reasonably fill]. Slicing that off to perpetually prioritize "majority" interests in dev time narrows the game's appeal in a very direct way [and with respect to a system that competitors simply don't have].)
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    Funny you should use social zones as a metric of "actual activity," considering the primary reason for most players to be loitering around on ESD is if they had nothing better to do.

    STO's development focus being on solo action has definitely redirected players away from anything resembling social behavior, though. Players are more often out doing things by themselves than talking to anyone. Even the designated group content requires no coordination whatsoever.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Funny you should use social zones as a metric of "actual activity," considering the primary reason for most players to be loitering around on ESD is if they had nothing better to do.

    STO's development focus being on solo action has definitely redirected players away from anything resembling social behavior, though. Players are more often out doing things by themselves than talking to anyone. Even the designated group content requires no coordination whatsoever.

    OBVIOUSLY that's one answer, but then we get the "Queues don't pop" for the last two or three years on top of it.
    It's not so much "queues don't pop" as "most queues don't pop." As in, only the most reward-efficient ones popped. Randoms have altered that dynamic a bit now. Not to mention people grinding T6 reps.

    But yes, queues in general are in a decline particularly after Admiralty allowed players to get their quota of dil to refine almost every day without playing anything at all.

    Reason to play...it's missing from a lot of content.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    Social zones are actually a really bad way to measure player numbers these days. Because of how much of the game has been dumbed down to simple menu clicks and windows opened from the UI, together with things like the S.S. Azura and Karemena exchange comms many players don't ever need to go to a social zone to carry out their daily business.
    And you've got ships with ex/bank/mail access too which thin the numbers even more.

    I reckon a lot of players just spend time on their bridges, or on non-social maps (missions, fleet holdings, sector space) so seem invisible to most.
    SulMatuul.png
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,947 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Lol, ESD constantly has 10+ full instances. People that say it's empty don't know what they're talking about.

    except, some of us remember when Qo'noS routinely had 10+ instances going during the weekdays (good luck getting that active during a weekend now) and that was at time when KDF required you to first level a Fed to 25, there was no tutorial mission, etc. etc.

    and ESD had mid-double digit instances... during the WEEK. during off-hours, during the non-peak times.

    you're mentioning peak activity in the NOW, but DS9 used to have more instances on average (hell, Drozana used to have more) going than your Peak ESD numbers today.

    which kinda suggests that maybe it's NOT so busy as you're implying, esp. from a historical perspective-it may even suggest that while theere are over a million characters created, and accounts into the hundreds of thousands, actual activityin the game is LOW, esp. compared to what it once was.

    been paing since closed beta in 2009 - You never saw Qo'nos with 10+ instances and the only time ESD got over 30 instances were during large expansion launches.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,962 Arc User
    Well, ESD is still a very attractive social hub, but lately, I spend more time on DS9, mostly so I can do the Trade assignments for Gamma Quadrant commodities. So many of my characters still haven't completed the related assignment chain, and the assignments often give more XP than other DOFF assignments.

    The only thing DS9 currently doesn't offer is easy access to Starfleet Academy.
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  • thetaninethetanine Member Posts: 1,366 Arc User
    asches1 wrote: »
    I'm really alone with this opinion.

    With an account name like "ASCHES", which is a transliteration of the word 'ashes', I'd say you've had a negative outlook on this game or even I.P. as your agenda from the beginning. I think you're looking for other burn-outs to join your ash heap. I don't appreciate your negativity and I decline to participate in your conflagration of Star Trek, in any of its various forms.

    Live long and prosper, Asches.
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  • darthkuribohdarthkuriboh Member Posts: 211 Arc User
    tbh I've had less and less desire to log in thanks to Age of TRIBBLE's. I'm just not interested in it.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Let's stop griping about percieved inactivity, and once again turn our eyes to 'where is this going?'

    the crew at Cryptic have pretty much eradicated the following as possible threats;

    Borg
    Cardassians (True Way and others)
    Dominion
    Fek'Ihri
    Hur'q
    Iconians
    Romulan Empire (Tal Shi'ar and others)
    Voth
    etc. etc. etc.

    every single appearance by every major opponent has resulted in a clean, total victory thus far. No stalemates, no possibility of recurring threats to Federation Hegemony, really no reason for any future alliances since everyone's fated to be absorbed or annihilated anyway.

    What is there LEFT to provide challenges? to provide drama and tension?

    Nothing. even time-travelling baddies are easily overcome and defeated by "The Hero Captain", and will be, too, and it's predictably so.

    Not a SINGLE conflict, no matter how small or how 'epic" (and I use the term "Epic" very loosely here) has resulted in a stalemate or shaky, unstable peace. Not one conflict even has the potential to be revisited since Legacy of Romulus. Baddies are easily dispatched with minimal effort, the damage they do is papered over and seamlessly gone within almost no time at all, and the threat is ended permanently on a regular, even clockwork basis.

    Nothing but clear wins as far as the eye can see.
    Let's see:

    -Borg: We kill the queen in that STF...which means jack squat. She's been killed every time she shows up in canon and it never means anything.
    -True Way: We beat some of them, but nothing definitive.
    -Dominion: Become our allies...or at least some of them do. How many founders agreed with the evil one?
    -Fek'Ihri: Are very much alive and last seen duking it out with the hur'q.
    -Hur'q: are cured of their insanity, remains to be seen what they make of it.
    -Iconians: Go home for the time being, except T'ket who is still out there plotting revenge.
    -RSE: Sort of disintegrated in the background. Always room for lost remnants, I wouldn't put much trust in Sela saying those were her last followers...she's a liar. Sela herself is still at large as well.
    -Voth: Are quietly forgotten soon after the dyson sphere plot is over. Last seen in Borg Disconnected, very much un-eradicated.
    -Undine: We make peace with their living super-dreadnought. Whether the undine themselves are any more in agreement with it than fake!Cooper was, is unknown.
    -Tzenkethi: We stop their genocide-fleet, but never actually engage them offensively at all.
    -Terran Empire: We defeat their attack forces a few times, but never engage them offensively.
    -Na'kuhl: Get their star back, eventually. Which won't stop us from continuing to encounter the time-travelers that were sent into the past before that happened. Honestly, given how the player character is the only one in the universe that can get anything done, I would expect we have to go fix the star ourselves eventually, too.
    -Krenim: Noye's group gets wiped. I suppose it's possible none of the rest agree with him, but I wouldn't bet on it.
    -Sphere builders, vorgons: We stop their plots but they're still out there.
    -Tholians: Out there, being mysterious.
    -Vaadwaur: We killed Gaul and the other guys don't seem to be as bad...which isn't necessarily saying they're good either.

    Who got eradicated?
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,188 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    every single appearance by every major opponent has resulted in a clean, total victory thus far. No stalemates, no possibility of recurring threats to Federation Hegemony, really no reason for any future alliances since everyone's fated to be absorbed or annihilated anyway.

    So... basically just like every other Star Trek TV show/film/game/comic etc. etc.



    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,252 Arc User
    > @warpangel said:
    > patrickngo wrote: »
    >
    > Let's stop griping about percieved inactivity, and once again turn our eyes to 'where is this going?'
    >
    > the crew at Cryptic have pretty much eradicated the following as possible threats;
    >
    > Borg
    > Cardassians (True Way and others)
    > Dominion
    > Fek'Ihri
    > Hur'q
    > Iconians
    > Romulan Empire (Tal Shi'ar and others)
    > Voth
    > etc. etc. etc.
    >
    > every single appearance by every major opponent has resulted in a clean, total victory thus far. No stalemates, no possibility of recurring threats to Federation Hegemony, really no reason for any future alliances since everyone's fated to be absorbed or annihilated anyway.
    >
    > What is there LEFT to provide challenges? to provide drama and tension?
    >
    > Nothing. even time-travelling baddies are easily overcome and defeated by "The Hero Captain", and will be, too, and it's predictably so.
    >
    > Not a SINGLE conflict, no matter how small or how 'epic" (and I use the term "Epic" very loosely here) has resulted in a stalemate or shaky, unstable peace. Not one conflict even has the potential to be revisited since Legacy of Romulus. Baddies are easily dispatched with minimal effort, the damage they do is papered over and seamlessly gone within almost no time at all, and the threat is ended permanently on a regular, even clockwork basis.
    >
    > Nothing but clear wins as far as the eye can see.
    >
    >
    >
    > Let's see:
    >
    > -Borg: We kill the queen in that STF...which means jack squat. She's been killed every time she shows up in canon and it never means anything.
    > -True Way: We beat some of them, but nothing definitive.
    > -Dominion: Become our allies...or at least some of them do. How many founders agreed with the evil one?
    > -Fek'Ihri: Are very much alive and last seen duking it out with the hur'q.
    > -Hur'q: are cured of their insanity, remains to be seen what they make of it.
    > -Iconians: Go home for the time being, except T'ket who is still out there plotting revenge.
    > -RSE: Sort of disintegrated in the background. Always room for lost remnants, I wouldn't put much trust in Sela saying those were her last followers...she's a liar. Sela herself is still at large as well.
    > -Voth: Are quietly forgotten soon after the dyson sphere plot is over. Last seen in Borg Disconnected, very much un-eradicated.
    > -Undine: We make peace with their living super-dreadnought. Whether the undine themselves are any more in agreement with it than fake!Cooper was, is unknown.
    > -Tzenkethi: We stop their genocide-fleet, but never actually engage them offensively at all.
    > -Terran Empire: We defeat their attack forces a few times, but never engage them offensively.
    > -Na'kuhl: Get their star back, eventually. Which won't stop us from continuing to encounter the time-travelers that were sent into the past before that happened. Honestly, given how the player character is the only one in the universe that can get anything done, I would expect we have to go fix the star ourselves eventually, too.
    > -Krenim: Noye's group gets wiped. I suppose it's possible none of the rest agree with him, but I wouldn't bet on it.
    > -Sphere builders, vorgons: We stop their plots but they're still out there.
    > -Tholians: Out there, being mysterious.
    > -Vaadwaur: We killed Gaul and the other guys don't seem to be as bad...which isn't necessarily saying they're good either.
    >
    > Who got eradicated?

    Fun part is, we now have a gateway to the Andromeda Galaxy. Who knows what is over there. We may see some serious s***.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 56,303 Community Moderator
    warpangel wrote: »
    -RSE: Sort of disintegrated in the background. Always room for lost remnants, I wouldn't put much trust in Sela saying those were her last followers...she's a liar. Sela herself is still at large as well.

    ACTUALLY... Sela is in Federation custody after the events of Survivor. Last we see she is in a cell, and none other than Data visits her, and Sela asks him to tell her about her mother. And we KNOW its Data despite never seeing his face because
    A: Skin color matches Data.
    B: Hair style is Data's.
    C: Most telling piece of evidence... in posession of the hologram of Tasha Yar.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    -RSE: Sort of disintegrated in the background. Always room for lost remnants, I wouldn't put much trust in Sela saying those were her last followers...she's a liar. Sela herself is still at large as well.

    ACTUALLY... Sela is in Federation custody after the events of Survivor. Last we see she is in a cell, and none other than Data visits her, and Sela asks him to tell her about her mother. And we KNOW its Data despite never seeing his face because
    A: Skin color matches Data.
    B: Hair style is Data's.
    C: Most telling piece of evidence... in posession of the hologram of Tasha Yar.
    Hmmm...forgot that. She's been in and out of "custody" so many times.

    Though that does remind being in prison is not really a plot block either.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 56,303 Community Moderator
    Well... this time Sela willingly submitted so... who knows.

    Anyways... I definitely feel that the mention of Gateways in Andromeda is a door that can be opened in the future. Although we do have quite a bit of the Delta Quadrant still unexplored too.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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