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Where STO is headed

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    duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,878 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    patrickngo wrote: »
    do you get it yet? They got nothing they can use now, that is an actually credible 'big bad' but Cryptic can't work without one. every possible or even probable villain's been defanged. what's left are ineffectual has-beens and never-weres.

    Except that Cryptic typically doesn't give complete resolution to villain arcs. T'Ket, Noyes, Sela, Leeta, the Voth, the Borg, and Sphere Builders (we only saw the end point, not the lead up to Procyon V in real time) are all extant threats, pending a prison break or a new motivation for hostilities. Add to that any amount of rogue Klingons, Gorn, Ferengi, Federation Admirals, Section 31 agents, and any other villain created in the same mold as those from the series. Plus they can always fill in the background to V'Ger, Whale Probe, T'kon Empire, or Kelvans similar to the Hur'Q (initial hostility leading to cultural reconciliation.) And last but not least: they can always create an original villain faction if they're really out of material from the series.

    We have resolution to specific arcs but your assertion that these reach an all-encompassing terminus is self-serving hyperbole. That's literally untrue except in those cases where a villain is killed off who personally represented the motivating force for the conflict (Undine, Vorgons, Dominion) so any resumption would require new narrative groundwork (though that's certainly not impossible to do.) You can't see a bigger threat, but I'll hold that's a failure of imagination and not on the game's writing (as a Foundry author, I've got no shortage of potential hostiles to choose from for my work in STO and I can easily extrapolate up for a season full arc. STO has a huge universe to pull from and Cryptic has only scratched the surface on original conflict and new story arcs.)
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    warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    do you get it yet? They got nothing they can use now, that is an actually credible 'big bad' but Cryptic can't work without one. every possible or even probable villain's been defanged. what's left are ineffectual has-beens and never-weres.

    Except that Cryptic typically doesn't give complete resolution to villain arcs. T'Ket, Noyes, Sela, Leeta, the Voth, the Borg, and Sphere Builders (we only saw the end point, not the lead up to Procyon V in real time) are all extant threats, pending a prison break or a new motivation for hostilities. Add to that any amount of rogue Klingons, Gorn, Ferengi, Federation Admirals, Section 31 agents, and any other villain created in the same mold as those from the series. Plus they can always fill in the background to V'Ger, Whale Probe, T'kon Empire, or Kelvans similar to the Hur'Q (initial hostility leading to cultural reconciliation.) And last but not least: they can always create an original villain faction if they're really out of material from the series.

    We have resolution to specific arcs but your assertion that these reach an all-encompassing terminus is self-serving hyperbole. That's literally untrue except in those cases where a villain is killed off who personally represented the motivating force for the conflict (Undine, Vorgons, Dominion) so any resumption would require new narrative groundwork (though that's certainly not impossible to do.) You can't see a bigger threat, but I'll hold that's a failure of imagination and not on the game's writing (as a Foundry author, I've got no shortage of potential hostiles to choose from for my work in STO and I can easily extrapolate up for a season full arc. STO has a huge universe to pull from and Cryptic has only scratched the surface on original conflict and new story arcs.)
    Right. STO typically has us stop the evil plot, but leaves the villain to exit stage left. Even in cases where a personified villain is killed, their faction remains.

    The RSE is probably the only complete reversal of an entire faction...and even that is contingent on believing Sela's claim that she has no more followers left (as if she would tell us if she did).
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    khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,007 Arc User
    Or they could create the new baddie unshackled from canon
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    warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Right. STO typically has us stop the evil plot, but leaves the villain to exit stage left. Even in cases where a personified villain is killed, their faction remains.

    The RSE is probably the only complete reversal of an entire faction...and even that is contingent on believing Sela's claim that she has no more followers left (as if she would tell us if she did).
    Yeah
    -There's still remnants of the Tal Shiar out there
    -There's still remnants of the True Way out there
    -The Breen are still out there
    -The Tholians are still out there
    -Most of the Delta Quad baddies(Borg, Voth, Hirogen, Kazon, Malon, APUs) are still out there
    -T'Ket and her forces are still out there
    -The fact the Temporal Cold War was a time war means we can see any of the Temporal Liberation Front factions at any time
    -Theres still Hur'q fleets that haven't gotten the cure out there
    What about a story arc that deals with the origin of the guardian of forever and who built the facility that housed it that is in ruins by the time Gateway was discovered in the 23rd century...
    The Guardian of Forever is over 4.5 billion years old, and the only races known to exist in that era are the Preservers and the Q. And when asking it about the Iconians, the way it speaks about the Preservers implies it was made by them.

    Okay, let's look at this now;

    T'Ket's become a joke, that was the whole point of "Quark's Lucky Seven".

    The Hur'q are pretty much totally defanged, at best they pose a minor local hazard in a few systems.

    The Tholians have also been rendered to at most a minor local troublemaker.

    The Breen? really?? Maybe grade AA ballplayers compared to the "Galactic Alliance's" Major League teams.

    The True Way? Okay, that's a problem for the local cops, not a significant threat.

    Noye's dead, so The Temporal Cold War is a non-issue-we won that already.

    The Voth are defanged, the Hirogen are a local street gang, the Kazon are another joke, the APU's don't pose a serious threat and the Borg?? don't make me laugh.

    and finally, the Tal'Shiar is another situation where the Romulans can handle them all by their ownselves.

    This is kinda what I was getting at; by rushing forward with the Grand Galactic Alliance the way Cryptic has, there really isn't anything that can serve as even a reasonable single season's worth left to use, the closest they can get, is somehow making the Kelvans or the Q a threat-or something on that scale, because pretty much everything that could pose a significant threat is either damaged down to the point of being a local matter, or otherwise neutralized to relative impotence, with the remnants of the larger threats so utterly neutralized they no longer have credibility as serious opposition.
    Your personal opinions of the supposed "impotence" of the various antagonist factions do not constrain Cryptic's storywriting in any way.
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    warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    After M'tara's death, someone (Kagran?) said L'miren's heralds have joined M'tara's and T'ket's in attacking us. That should mean T'ket controled about a third of the heralds in the war. More if she took over part of M'tara's army after her death.

    Certainly enough to do a lot of damage.

    For that matter, even 1/12th of the forces the iconians are implied to have would be plenty.
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    warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Implied to have had before the war, you mean. ;)
    Yes, well, although the Invincible Player Character crushes heralds like bugs, the rest of the galaxy was shown to be decidedly less effective at depleting their forces. The words "redshirt army" come to mind.
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    jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    As much as I didn't care much for Discovery. The Mirror Universe aspects of the show I did enjoy. There is so much more STO could do with the Mirror Universe. If they throw the Pike Connie in the C-Sore or more than likely in a lockbox. I will more than likely want one.
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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    reyan01 wrote: »
    They warned us that if we messed with their stuff again that they would be back. We still are researching their stuff, thus messing with it. Seems to me that they are cosmic jerks enough to go, "TRIBBLE it. Let's just wipe them out of existence and be done with it!"
    They said they would come back if we disturbed them while they are rebuilding Iconia for the next 1,000 years, not that they would if we kept using the stuff they had already left behind.

    Yeah - it does seem as if L'Miren and the other nine survivors with her are a bit of a closed door. I can't imagine anyone would be stupid enough to poke that hornet's nest.

    The real potential where any further story involving the Iconians is with T'Ket, since she is still active and has a chip on her shoulder.

    Maybe some Ferengi: "Hey, Iconians, we have some very lucrative ideas on how to market Iconia as the new historical education and entertainment centre of the galaxy. Just imagine it, people getting to view the development of Iconia over the millenia, with recreations of the iconian surface spread across the Iconian Sphere. The ultimate spectacle would of course be the authentical recreation of the bombardment of Iconia. Also, would you mind if we put a Slug-O-Cola holo advertisement on your sphere's exterior?"
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    warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    reyan01 wrote: »
    They warned us that if we messed with their stuff again that they would be back. We still are researching their stuff, thus messing with it. Seems to me that they are cosmic jerks enough to go, "TRIBBLE it. Let's just wipe them out of existence and be done with it!"
    They said they would come back if we disturbed them while they are rebuilding Iconia for the next 1,000 years, not that they would if we kept using the stuff they had already left behind.

    Yeah - it does seem as if L'Miren and the other nine survivors with her are a bit of a closed door. I can't imagine anyone would be stupid enough to poke that hornet's nest.
    I can. Although I would expect if the iconians are engaged in the plot again we'd be on their side next time, against some mutual aggressor. We already did the war thing with them and it would be boring to just rehash the same thing again.

    For example, the Terran Empire presumably defeated the iconians in their universe and they're most definitely arrogant enough to try for an encore.
    The real potential where any further story involving the Iconians is with T'Ket, since she is still active and has a chip on her shoulder.
    That, too.
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