There are also a lot of fans (both new and old) who do like the show. I'm curious why you believe it a bad business decision to try and capitalize on those fans? If it brings in new players who spend money on the game, isn't that a good thing?
I guess only if it is done the "proper" way. Otherwise... game is DOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMed.
Man I haven't gotten to say anything like that since the DOOOOOOM thread was closed. I miss that thread... was fun.
I just read the post on the homepage where STO is headed in 2019. It's just really sad. "Legendary" Discovery? That show is out for a year maybe, not liked by the lot of Trekkies and STO is heading full into that.
There are also a lot of fans (both new and old) who do like the show. I'm curious why you believe it a bad business decision to try and capitalize on those fans? If it brings in new players who spend money on the game, isn't that a good thing?
Because people tend to assume without basis that their personal opinions, whatever they are, constitute a majority. In other words, because they hate X, most other people must hate X, too.
Hell... TNG was on shaky ground into Season 2! It didn't get better until Season 3!
maybe so, but there WERE good episodes in Season 1, and in season 2 of TNG, and they happened often enough to overlook the ones that were....not so good.
Of the first two Season of TNG (48 episodes) I can say there are nine (9) I found watchable - the rest: Meh:
S1 - Where No One Has Gone Before
S1 - The Battle
S1 - Too Short A Season
S1 - Heart of Glory
S1 - Conspiracy
S2 - The Measure of a Man
S2 - Contagion
S2 - Q Who
S2 - The Emissary
And yes, TNG S2 was horribly affected by the 1988 WGA strike, but still they did a lot of ham fisted things to TRY and win TOS fans back, the worst among these was the female Dr. McCoy clone character of Dr. Katherine Pulaski - and the attempt to recreate "McCoy/Spock" type banter between her and Data which was thankfully abandoned quickly because unlike Spock, Data was written as very naive and 'socially innocent' so unlike Spock, when Pulaski went after Data it was like she was berating a child who didn't fully understand some nuance of what she was saying.
TNG didn't become somewhat more watch able until it's third season.
And in comparison: to date ST: D has had a total of 15 episodes - and one short 15 minute outing to date.
If I compare that to the first 15 aired TNG episodes, for me 2 of chose were watchable
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
Because people tend to assume without basis that their personal opinions, whatever they are, constitute a majority. In other words, because they hate X, most other people must hate X, too.
And they are rather loud thanks to the Internet. Back when TNG came out, they could only send angry letters, but generally it was pretty quiet. With the Internet... they can rant and rave as loud as they want in public, find like minded people, and attack anyone that doesn't agree with them with the "True Fan" shtick.
I just read the post on the homepage where STO is headed in 2019. It's just really sad. "Legendary" Discovery? That show is out for a year maybe, not liked by the lot of Trekkies and STO is heading full into that.
I bought a lifer subscription when it came out for mac. I let myself be trapped by the big mashine named "Cryptic" and loved the game till the mac version got canned. Since then I regreted that purchase a lot, but when I see how the game is developing (I don't know how much work goes into devving a game, but I can imagine a lot and especially that's why I would want to do it right conentwise) and where they are headed (not just contentwise) I must say, that if I hadn't stopped playing back then, when they dropped the mac version, I would stop playing now.
STO content was so good, interesting and diverse. And now it's just sad.
I'm curious what others think and if I'm really alone with this opinion.
This is not the place to find anyone sympathetic to your feeling. All people will do here is ignore you and say that the game is great and everything is just perfect...
Even when we all really know that the game is in the worst shape it has ever been. The game has entered the final stages of it's lifetime. Craptic has a minimum staff, they do almost no play testing (as proven by the recent Sompek bugs, I mean seriously, nobody bothered to test it even for 5 mins???)... game has been on a steady decline since season 13 and most truthful longtime players will say season 12.
Example: Searson 13 Tzenkethi Battle zone was released and bugged out the first day. It took 2 months to fix and it was void of any creativity. The bonus was that the zone has never worked properly and full of bugs. ***Then 2 weeks ago they have the nerve to post a thread here asking what they can do to get people to play in it. LMAO seriously??? 18 months later you are asking? They are just clueless.
Don't expect much from the knew Discovery missions this year... With all the hype they did over the Discovery season only to have those 2 missions which was just a redo of the old tutorial was a huge let down. Of course the regular forum flies have already posted here that they loved it. LMAO Truth is as a leader of 2 fleets level 70+ I can tell you that 99% of all my members were really let down.
Most players play other games and just sign for 30 mins to say hello and do some quick dailies. They are off playin EvE or WoW or other stuff. This is the reality and the current state of STO
As far as the Lifetime package I would avoid that like the plague. It is a complete waste of money. The ships are old and obsolete and nothing in there is worth the 300 or even 200 dollars/euros that price it at.
New players are much better off buying the new Elite Starter Pack for 15 dollars and buying either the Cross faction battlecruiser bundle or the 31st century temporal ship bundle so they can play all 3 factions with different ships. And the traits and consoles from these 2 bundles are all excellent.
If you wait for a ship sale then in total it is 15 + 40 = $55 dollars and you are set up to play and have fun for the next year.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
Example: Searson 13 Tzenkethi Battle zone was released and bugged out the first day. It took 2 months to fix and it was void of any creativity. The bonus was that the zone has never worked properly and full of bugs. ***Then 2 weeks ago they have the nerve to post a thread here asking what they can do to get people to play in it. LMAO seriously??? 18 months later you are asking? They are just clueless.
Actually... it wasn't out of the blue.
I had actually asked Ambassadorkael about any fixes to the Tzenkethi Battlezone, and he took the initiative to make a thread asking for more feedback on said battlezone shortly after that.
So realistically... blame me for the fact we're able to give direct feedback on Gon'cra. I wasn't expecting him to make a thread but... frankly I call it a positive.
I don't like discovery.
And i don't like this prequel mania.
I also find weird to mix TNG, TOS, discovery all together in the same game.
Victory is life was good! With a nice story! Just...too few episodes! I would have preferred more VIL episodes instead of this discovery thing.
I mean...2 or 3 time travel episodes as a temporal agent during discovery age would be nice and funny. But having all the next year filled with discovery things...i am not happy about.
I would prefer to see Dukat back from the afterlife with Pah wraiths entering our dimension instead. (And the return of mirror leeta as well).
I really liked ViL and was looking forward to the rest of the series. It ended rather abruptly. There were a few stories here and there showing that some Vorta and Jem'Hadar were "in" Starfleet and that the H'urq were far from "tamed". We have Loriss who can "hear" the Prophets and that's it. And then we get a full 180 degrees and get back in time again. Prequels and prequels of prequels ... Keep this disease that is DSC out of STO!
Example: Searson 13 Tzenkethi Battle zone was released and bugged out the first day. It took 2 months to fix and it was void of any creativity. The bonus was that the zone has never worked properly and full of bugs. ***Then 2 weeks ago they have the nerve to post a thread here asking what they can do to get people to play in it. LMAO seriously??? 18 months later you are asking? They are just clueless.
Actually... it wasn't out of the blue.
I had actually asked Ambassadorkael about any fixes to the Tzenkethi Battlezone, and he took the initiative to make a thread asking for more feedback on said battlezone shortly after that.
So realistically... blame me for the fact we're able to give direct feedback on Gon'cra. I wasn't expecting him to make a thread but... frankly I call it a positive.
LMAO You have proven my point. Thank you. LMAO
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
How did I prove your point? You were basically saying this just came out of nowhere and "How dare they come to us NOW".
I brought up the issue in a thread that at the time was newly posted by our CM, and he actually took point on gathering more information from us because of it. How did I prove your point?
The only point it shows is that our CM is actually a good guy and actively gathering feedback to give to the bug team when something was brought up.
I really liked ViL and was looking forward to the rest of the series. It ended rather abruptly. There were a few stories here and there showing that some Vorta and Jem'Hadar were "in" Starfleet and that the H'urq were far from "tamed". We have Loriss who can "hear" the Prophets and that's it. And then we get a full 180 degrees and get back in time again. Prequels and prequels of prequels ... Keep this disease that is DSC out of STO!
If you were paying attention... we are not traveling back in time. The past has come forward to us. We're still in the 25th Century. We got a renegade Klingon who's house was destroyed, leading a fleet, and could potentially destabilize the Alliance by causing a Klingon Civil War.
> If you were paying attention... we are not traveling back in time. The past has come forward to us.
You realize the folks who dislike Discovery did not read any blog or did any missions that would contain that info. You kinda have to integrate it into responses for them...they won't know.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
How did I prove your point? You were basically saying this just came out of nowhere and "How dare they come to us NOW".
I brought up the issue in a thread that at the time was newly posted by our CM, and he actually took point on gathering more information from us because of it. How did I prove your point?
The only point it shows is that our CM is actually a good guy and actively gathering feedback to give to the bug team when something was brought up.
I really liked ViL and was looking forward to the rest of the series. It ended rather abruptly. There were a few stories here and there showing that some Vorta and Jem'Hadar were "in" Starfleet and that the H'urq were far from "tamed". We have Loriss who can "hear" the Prophets and that's it. And then we get a full 180 degrees and get back in time again. Prequels and prequels of prequels ... Keep this disease that is DSC out of STO!
If you were paying attention... we are not traveling back in time. The past has come forward to us. We're still in the 25th Century. We got a renegade Klingon who's house was destroyed, leading a fleet, and could potentially destabilize the Alliance by causing a Klingon Civil War.
which will be solved out in 2-3 more episodes by a Starfleet Captain and everyone will be friends, because reasons.
'reasons' in this case being "the Formula". everything is always solved by the starfleet ADMIRAL that is your main, the other faction characters are just NPCs re-watching your ADMIRAL's adventures in a holodeck and congratulating them on their awesomeness.
Everything is always solved by the Supremely Invincible Superman-Time Lord hybrid Alien ADMIRAL that is my main, employed by the Romulan Republic, allied to Starfleet (because the stupid game didn't let me ally with both options despite common sense clearly demanding it) and commanding my huge fleet of starships and crew collected from all across time and space.
And all the other "faction" characters are just grinding dil and Recruit event rewards for my main and storing stuff and EC to trade.
How did I prove your point? You were basically saying this just came out of nowhere and "How dare they come to us NOW".
I brought up the issue in a thread that at the time was newly posted by our CM, and he actually took point on gathering more information from us because of it. How did I prove your point?
The only point it shows is that our CM is actually a good guy and actively gathering feedback to give to the bug team when something was brought up.
I really liked ViL and was looking forward to the rest of the series. It ended rather abruptly. There were a few stories here and there showing that some Vorta and Jem'Hadar were "in" Starfleet and that the H'urq were far from "tamed". We have Loriss who can "hear" the Prophets and that's it. And then we get a full 180 degrees and get back in time again. Prequels and prequels of prequels ... Keep this disease that is DSC out of STO!
If you were paying attention... we are not traveling back in time. The past has come forward to us. We're still in the 25th Century. We got a renegade Klingon who's house was destroyed, leading a fleet, and could potentially destabilize the Alliance by causing a Klingon Civil War.
which will be solved out in 2-3 more episodes by a Starfleet Captain and everyone will be friends, because reasons.
'reasons' in this case being "the Formula". everything is always solved by the starfleet ADMIRAL that is your main, the other faction characters are just NPCs re-watching your ADMIRAL's adventures in a holodeck and congratulating them on their awesomeness.
Everything is always solved by the Supremely Invincible Superman-Time Lord hybrid Alien ADMIRAL that is my main, employed by the Romulan Republic, allied to Starfleet (because the stupid game didn't let me ally with both options despite common sense clearly demanding it) and commanding my huge fleet of starships and crew collected from all across time and space.
And all the other "faction" characters are just grinding dil and Recruit event rewards for my main and storing stuff and EC to trade.
Nah, read the dialogue in context, your ADMIRAL is a Starfleet Officer with a Romulan backstory.
Tell that to the tailor who refuses to let me wear their clothes.
the other faction characters are just NPCs re-watching your ADMIRAL's adventures in a holodeck and congratulating them on their awesomeness.
Eh? The point of the holodeck simulation is to provide backstory for events that'll take place in the current time. See. where AoD part 1 ended up. I don't think it's strictly necessary to explain aspects to a character which are immediately evident from their context in 2410 (she's a Klingon from the past who could cause major problems for the FED/KDF/Alliance, see. The Emissary [TNG] for a rough outline, details in mission.) More so, Cryptic might as well open these up to all factions as "simulations" (in line with the Starbase One PVE queue) so every player can be on the same page irrespective of their faction choice (this way, there's less appearance that Cryptic is forcing players to create a new character to stay current with the end-game story.)
The next episode (mirror Discovery) is confirmed for 2410 and the next episode with J'ula is certainly going to be 2410 as well (unless J'ula has a Daniels of her own and all hell breaks loose across the timeline.) The only reference we have to more simulations at this point is Battle at Binary and perhaps Limited Engagement TFO's. Those will apply to DSC characters as well though (if Daniels sends us back in time for reasons, those reasons should apply to other factions as well.)
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
You realize the folks who dislike Discovery did not read any blog or did any missions that would contain that info. You kinda have to integrate it into responses for them...they won't know.
More like they don't care even if they do read the details. They hate it, therefor it anything to do with it is evil and must be exterminated. Doesn't matter the context. How many people were calling for a boycott over the mere idea of anything Discovery related in STO? How many people are saying they will NOT play anything Discovery related because of their dislike/hate?
And yes... there are some out there who are THAT rigid. Hell... my mom knows someone who hates ANYTHING Roddenberry didn't have direct control over. So for him... Star Trek ended with season 2 of TNG. Everything else we know, and even call some of the best Trek? He hates and will ignore its existance because of the simple fact Roddenberry wasn't involved directly.
I'm sure there are some people who still wish for anything from the Kelvin Timeline or Enterprise to be erased from existance because they don't like it. We just hear more about Discovery now because its the new thing to hate and is still in the spotlight.
Honestly I'm wondering why I even bother anymore. It always falls on deaf ears clouded by prejudice, and the only thing I get in return is beat to death with the "True Fan" shtick.
Honestly I'm wondering why I even bother anymore. It always falls on deaf ears clouded by prejudice, and the only thing I get in return is beat to death with the "True Fan" shtick.
*Deploys tardigrade hugs*
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
@rattler2 If it is not that which brings you joy. Don't be on the crusade, any more.
Face it, Patrickngo...he is enjoying the TRIBBLE out of himself, that is why he keeps at it. You can't beat people at the game, unless you are in that zone with them.
LOL!
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
I'm not on a crusade. I'm just tired of people beating others with the "True Fan" shtick to justify their hate of Discovery.
Gatekeeping towards others in the forum will be considered a form of trolling, and will be dealt with accordingly.
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Comments
I guess only if it is done the "proper" way. Otherwise... game is DOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMed.
Man I haven't gotten to say anything like that since the DOOOOOOM thread was closed. I miss that thread... was fun.
Of the first two Season of TNG (48 episodes) I can say there are nine (9) I found watchable - the rest: Meh:
S1 - Where No One Has Gone Before
S1 - The Battle
S1 - Too Short A Season
S1 - Heart of Glory
S1 - Conspiracy
S2 - The Measure of a Man
S2 - Contagion
S2 - Q Who
S2 - The Emissary
And yes, TNG S2 was horribly affected by the 1988 WGA strike, but still they did a lot of ham fisted things to TRY and win TOS fans back, the worst among these was the female Dr. McCoy clone character of Dr. Katherine Pulaski - and the attempt to recreate "McCoy/Spock" type banter between her and Data which was thankfully abandoned quickly because unlike Spock, Data was written as very naive and 'socially innocent' so unlike Spock, when Pulaski went after Data it was like she was berating a child who didn't fully understand some nuance of what she was saying.
TNG didn't become somewhat more watch able until it's third season.
And in comparison: to date ST: D has had a total of 15 episodes - and one short 15 minute outing to date.
If I compare that to the first 15 aired TNG episodes, for me 2 of chose were watchable
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
And they are rather loud thanks to the Internet. Back when TNG came out, they could only send angry letters, but generally it was pretty quiet. With the Internet... they can rant and rave as loud as they want in public, find like minded people, and attack anyone that doesn't agree with them with the "True Fan" shtick.
S3 was also about the time Roddenberry didn't have DIRECT control over TNG, and they changed the uniforms to be more comfortable for the actors.
This is not the place to find anyone sympathetic to your feeling. All people will do here is ignore you and say that the game is great and everything is just perfect...
Even when we all really know that the game is in the worst shape it has ever been. The game has entered the final stages of it's lifetime. Craptic has a minimum staff, they do almost no play testing (as proven by the recent Sompek bugs, I mean seriously, nobody bothered to test it even for 5 mins???)... game has been on a steady decline since season 13 and most truthful longtime players will say season 12.
Example: Searson 13 Tzenkethi Battle zone was released and bugged out the first day. It took 2 months to fix and it was void of any creativity. The bonus was that the zone has never worked properly and full of bugs. ***Then 2 weeks ago they have the nerve to post a thread here asking what they can do to get people to play in it. LMAO seriously??? 18 months later you are asking? They are just clueless.
Don't expect much from the knew Discovery missions this year... With all the hype they did over the Discovery season only to have those 2 missions which was just a redo of the old tutorial was a huge let down. Of course the regular forum flies have already posted here that they loved it. LMAO Truth is as a leader of 2 fleets level 70+ I can tell you that 99% of all my members were really let down.
Most players play other games and just sign for 30 mins to say hello and do some quick dailies. They are off playin EvE or WoW or other stuff. This is the reality and the current state of STO
As far as the Lifetime package I would avoid that like the plague. It is a complete waste of money. The ships are old and obsolete and nothing in there is worth the 300 or even 200 dollars/euros that price it at.
New players are much better off buying the new Elite Starter Pack for 15 dollars and buying either the Cross faction battlecruiser bundle or the 31st century temporal ship bundle so they can play all 3 factions with different ships. And the traits and consoles from these 2 bundles are all excellent.
If you wait for a ship sale then in total it is 15 + 40 = $55 dollars and you are set up to play and have fun for the next year.
Actually... it wasn't out of the blue.
I had actually asked Ambassadorkael about any fixes to the Tzenkethi Battlezone, and he took the initiative to make a thread asking for more feedback on said battlezone shortly after that.
So realistically... blame me for the fact we're able to give direct feedback on Gon'cra. I wasn't expecting him to make a thread but... frankly I call it a positive.
I really liked ViL and was looking forward to the rest of the series. It ended rather abruptly. There were a few stories here and there showing that some Vorta and Jem'Hadar were "in" Starfleet and that the H'urq were far from "tamed". We have Loriss who can "hear" the Prophets and that's it. And then we get a full 180 degrees and get back in time again. Prequels and prequels of prequels ... Keep this disease that is DSC out of STO!
LMAO You have proven my point. Thank you. LMAO
I brought up the issue in a thread that at the time was newly posted by our CM, and he actually took point on gathering more information from us because of it. How did I prove your point?
The only point it shows is that our CM is actually a good guy and actively gathering feedback to give to the bug team when something was brought up.
If you were paying attention... we are not traveling back in time. The past has come forward to us. We're still in the 25th Century. We got a renegade Klingon who's house was destroyed, leading a fleet, and could potentially destabilize the Alliance by causing a Klingon Civil War.
You realize the folks who dislike Discovery did not read any blog or did any missions that would contain that info. You kinda have to integrate it into responses for them...they won't know.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
And all the other "faction" characters are just grinding dil and Recruit event rewards for my main and storing stuff and EC to trade.
Eh? The point of the holodeck simulation is to provide backstory for events that'll take place in the current time. See. where AoD part 1 ended up. I don't think it's strictly necessary to explain aspects to a character which are immediately evident from their context in 2410 (she's a Klingon from the past who could cause major problems for the FED/KDF/Alliance, see. The Emissary [TNG] for a rough outline, details in mission.) More so, Cryptic might as well open these up to all factions as "simulations" (in line with the Starbase One PVE queue) so every player can be on the same page irrespective of their faction choice (this way, there's less appearance that Cryptic is forcing players to create a new character to stay current with the end-game story.)
The next episode (mirror Discovery) is confirmed for 2410 and the next episode with J'ula is certainly going to be 2410 as well (unless J'ula has a Daniels of her own and all hell breaks loose across the timeline.) The only reference we have to more simulations at this point is Battle at Binary and perhaps Limited Engagement TFO's. Those will apply to DSC characters as well though (if Daniels sends us back in time for reasons, those reasons should apply to other factions as well.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
More like they don't care even if they do read the details. They hate it, therefor it anything to do with it is evil and must be exterminated. Doesn't matter the context. How many people were calling for a boycott over the mere idea of anything Discovery related in STO? How many people are saying they will NOT play anything Discovery related because of their dislike/hate?
And yes... there are some out there who are THAT rigid. Hell... my mom knows someone who hates ANYTHING Roddenberry didn't have direct control over. So for him... Star Trek ended with season 2 of TNG. Everything else we know, and even call some of the best Trek? He hates and will ignore its existance because of the simple fact Roddenberry wasn't involved directly.
I'm sure there are some people who still wish for anything from the Kelvin Timeline or Enterprise to be erased from existance because they don't like it. We just hear more about Discovery now because its the new thing to hate and is still in the spotlight.
Honestly I'm wondering why I even bother anymore. It always falls on deaf ears clouded by prejudice, and the only thing I get in return is beat to death with the "True Fan" shtick.
*Deploys tardigrade hugs*
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Face it, Patrickngo...he is enjoying the TRIBBLE out of himself, that is why he keeps at it. You can't beat people at the game, unless you are in that zone with them.
LOL!
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
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