XIV gear and Epic consoles, and you're giving it the "I don't know why someone thinks I have good DSP..." routine??
Universal consoles found on ships when you buy them are always epic. What I'm saying is I have no "Vulnerability"-based fleet consoles or energy-specific-enhancing tac console like phaser relay or antiproton mag regulator.
Sure, but again, Mk XIV gear! It packs more of a punch than Mk XII does
My tac's cannons pretty much ripped the Tzenkethi apart. I just replayed using this build:
and it was a totally different feel. Obviously, the phaser beams weren't hitting as hard as the cannons, so the targets took longer to take down, but that made it feel more of a challenge, and entertaining
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,667Community Moderator
Well... on two characters... when the Swarmers got on my tail... I just dumped Warp Plasma in their faces.
As for people saying it's built around BFAW... there is another way to deal with them.
Gravity Well!
I can definitely see that the Hur'q will be another interesting fight. Since the Vaadwaur at least, the enemy types have been more varied in tactics, which makes for more fun.
So we have to be like the Hazard Team. Adapt flexible tactics for any given situation.
This first encounter tells me... swarm tactics seem to be a favorite of the Hur'q. We may need to adapt accordingly.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
there is something vicious about putting in a group that LOVES being gravity-welled into invulnerable bundles in the same mission as a bunch of light small ships that are easily grav-welled.
(Also fun against the swarm? Mines)
The mission itself was pretty good, but getting berated for 'attacking instantly' when I recall story blogs about complete repulse of diplomats when we tried to ask the Tzenkethi 'why are you suddenly killing billions' made me not shed many tears when their station blew up.
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
FAW has always seemed a bit of a cheap crutch, only time I use it is when there's an endeavour to kill x ships that can be done in a red alert and I need to be tagging stuff lazy mode...
Fighting enemies like the swarmers is actually not that bad if it makes folk rethink builds even if that does mean googling the new meta for them.
Someone told me that this mission would be do-able by everyone, starting at level 11. On a f2p account, I am having a hard time believing that, as my level 12 KDF toon is not cleared to go to the alpha quadrant, and does not have the dil to make the jump.
Yeah, there's a transwarp button on the mission hail window. It should take you right to the Alpha Quadrant
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
FAW has always seemed a bit of a cheap crutch, only time I use it is when there's an endeavour to kill x ships that can be done in a red alert and I need to be tagging stuff lazy mode...
Fighting enemies like the swarmers is actually not that bad if it makes folk rethink builds even if that does mean googling the new meta for them.
Scatter volley and mines work just fine. No need to go into the lab to research ways to murder these dastardly enemies. Oh and gravimetric torpedos work too. I suspect the swarms may get bigger as cryptic love a trash mob, probably thrown in with a few capital ships.
Well, the episode was very action oriented, but i liked it! it was fun and it was enjoyable.
And i am very happy about Odo coming back! Please, Please...let Kira Nerys come back too! Come on! bajor is in danger..Kira must pop up!
Also glad Loriss and dominion came back. i love dominion.
My only complain is about Tzenkethi..i got the feeling Tzenkethi were taken and kicked away very quickly...and taking over their fleet was very easy and the admiral surrendering...hmm...Tzenkethi seemed cowards running away instead of mighty warriors.
Overall i enjoyed very much the new episode, so my vote is 8/10.
Nope, definitely not my dps, since I'm running with Mk XI and XII gear (all my phasers are Mk XI).
My issue was more that it was just the same thing, over and over again. Every time we do ANYTHING in the game, it's the same thing.
Here's an arc where we're shooting Klingons.
Now, here's an arc where we're shooting Romulans.
Then there's an arc where we're shooting Iconians.
Then Breen, then Voth, then Tholians, then, then, then. It's all just the same thing done over and over... and usually, each new foe is more powerful than the last (even when it makes NO sense).
I want to see stories with something INTERESTING in them. Some exploration, some diplomacy, some moral decisions... you know, the kinds of things Star Trek was ABOUT (at least, back in the day).
Sure, combat happened on the shows, but the story wasn't usually about the combat. The combat happened to further the story. THAT is what I want to see here.
There's an obvious difference between the shows and this game, when you consider the fact that the game is an MMORPG and you're not going to get away with little to no combat. Not when MMORPGs there to be combat involved.
In regards to the groups you stated, most of them are hostile.
Klingons: They started the mess because the Federation dismissed their claims about the Undine infiltrating the Gorn, thinking it was just an excuse for them to invade.
Romulans: Sela was never interested in being buddies with the Federation or the Klingons. Once again, anything we fought over, it was them who started it.
Iconians: They started basically everything up to the Temporal War.
Breen: they tend to be not so friendly individuals so we can let it slide.
Voth: It's a given that they do not like mammalian based lifeforms.
Tholians: We encroached on what they were doing. They don't exactly like other aliens exactly.
Other groups of course, we started by accident, like the Krenim problem was because we ended up accidentally erasing Noye's wife. The Na'kuhl were a result of the Temporal cycle that occurred from the Tholians disrupting their star because the Na'kuhl attacked them in the past.
I want to see stories with something INTERESTING in them. Some exploration, some diplomacy, some moral decisions... you know, the kinds of things Star Trek was ABOUT (at least, back in the day).
STO's has those
Hell, we have made peace
-Between the Federation/Klingon Empire/Romulan Republic
-With the Reman Resistance
-Breen separatists
-Voth dissidents
-The Undine
-Most of the races of the Delta Quadrant, which we brought together to form the Delta Alliance. Even becoming friendly with the Vaadwaur, by helping Eldix free their race from the parasites that infested them
-The Iconians
-Just now we made friends with some Tzenkethi separatists, and the ending of the last mission suggests some sort of partnership with the Dominion is coming
We have explored most of known space throughout the various quests, this entire last arc had us going to many previously unexplored worlds on the far edge of the known Alpha Quadrant and finding races like the Kentari, and Povini. In previous arcs we have done everything from finding an ancient archive of the Preservers, to seeing Iconia before its fall.
I never got these complaints about lack of diplomacy or exploration... when we end up making friends with most of the factions we encounter, and explore and visit tons of worlds not seen or mentioned in the shows.
The thing is that we've had to fight before we made peace with all of those groups, with exception of the Romulan Republic. What they want to see is stories that we don't have to fight, but to make peace instead.
Nothing particularly interesting about the mission barring the "cast". Martok is always a blast (though the poor guy had to keep coming up with excuses in the first half of the mission), I was very happy with Loriss (4) reappearing (somehow I always liked Vorta) and the final reveal was truly a surprise for me.
The sad part was how swiftly we've basically dealt with the Tzenkethi and how little note was given to why exacty they attack Bajor (other than the usual, you know, everybody seems to want to attack Bajor anytime).
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Really enjoyed it, Yea the swarmers were pretty easy to kill but there were a lot of them and we haven't seen the capitol ships yet so ..... dominion was a nice add (favorite villain out of the Trek shows) and Odo rocks, looking forward to seeing this storyline expand.
XIV gear and Epic consoles, and you're giving it the "I don't know why someone thinks I have good DSP..." routine??
Universal consoles found on ships when you buy them are always epic. What I'm saying is I have no "Vulnerability"-based fleet consoles or energy-specific-enhancing tac console like phaser relay or antiproton mag regulator.
Sure, but again, Mk XIV gear! It packs more of a punch than Mk XII does
It's still not high-dps. Or there is a significant gap between "high-dps" and "DPS-League-levels" of dps in the game.
I tried with my D4x BOP which does have lower ranked gear, the same "only universal consoles from other ships" setup, and only one weapon that can target something that isn't in a 45° forwards angle (the experimental weapon of the Sistruus that takes 4 seconds to reload and has a significant travel speed). I still trashed the swarmers without being in danger of blowing up once.
What I'm saying is no matter what, your dps doesn't matter, the swarmers are a joke that shouldn't threaten any NPC ship in the mission.
I'll try with my Valkis later which is even lesser-equipped to see if the swarmers are a bigger threat to slow-moving targets.
The initial phases where you have to warp to different systems felt a bit dull, like the infamous DR system patrols. Kumarke turned up late each time and the Tzenkethi were their usual annoying self to kill. For some reason the tiny escorts were harder to kill than the big cruisers.
Then being at Bajor was quite nice, is that a new planet asset we had in the mission? Having DS9 there was cool, added to the feeling for it being serious.
Fighting the Tzenkethi again was more of a chore than it was fun, they are just annoying more than anything with their immunity from the sides and rear. The battlestation was way too easy to knock down compared to their little escorts. The ground part was ok, but it felt like a rehash of the Iconian interiors I thought. Fighting the Tzenkethi on the ground is a bit better I think personally though they are more like raging animals there compared to their pretty laid back style in space.
The end fight was pretty mental I thought. Those swarmed die easily enough but those are only the initial waves I guess. Maybe it’ll get tougher once big ships start to appear. It was odd how my allies got vaped by them when I was having no issues but I guess it’s hard to match our powercreepnwith that of the poor NPC’s. No supprise we had a funny mix of allies getting miles and us having a cakewalk.
What I wonder watching the big reveal cutscene is if you fail to protect the planets from protomatter torpedoes before Kuumaarke can show up, do all the Hur'q ships show up or does it depend on which you rescued or not (because I'm sure at least one of them has the same NGC number of one of those you defend in the mission).
That'd be nice for 2 reasons:
-if some ships don't show up, then the devs added a little consequence and that's always welcome
-if all ships do show up, then it means all the Tzenkethi protomattery genocidal campaign was for naught anyway since their main target was unharmed
Mission was fine, although characters without ridiculously OP ships will struggle with the last few parts.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Personally I would love it if they showed that Tzenkethi campaign wasn't even effective, in essence show that not only was not asking aid from the alliance a mistake, but the solution they came up was for naught anyway.
Since obviously the alliance is gonna find a solution in the end, so had the Tzenkethi just asked "we detected this massive threat to the galaxy can you help us?" the Hur'q could had been dealt with sooner and with less loss life.
What's worse is that station was retrofitted for war full of weapons and defense. It should have been able to hold its own without any of the fleets yet alone 3 fleets backing it up. It doesn't make sense how such a tiny weak force can cause so much damage.
This!
To be honest, every time DS9 is involved in an STO FE or STF it REALLY annoys me!
What happened to all those torpedo launchers and phaser arrays fitted to the station immediately prior to 'Way of the Warror'? What happened to the station that held it's own against a fleet of Klingon ships, and later did the same Vs a fleet of Cardassian/Dominion ships? Seriously - THAT DS9 kicked a**; STO's DS9 is a lame duck that seems to need rescuing at every turn!
I'm sure we could speculate various reasons as to why Starfleet thought neutering the station was a good idea but I don't think ANY of them would be plasuable. The fact is DS9 has been attacked quite a few times in STO's timeline stands as evidence that the station being unable to defend itself in any meaningful way is really, really stupid!
Given Martok comments on the enemy ships being tough to hit, DS9 was probably having difficulty actually hitting anything.
Weapons aren't going to do much good if you can't hit what you're shooting at.
Combine that with Zerg Rush-style attacks and I'd say DS9 having trouble is a bit more justified this time.
Someone told me that this mission would be do-able by everyone, starting at level 11. On a f2p account, I am having a hard time believing that, as my level 12 KDF toon is not cleared to go to the alpha quadrant, and does not have the dil to make the jump.
The transwarp button on the featured episode tab doesn't work?
Someone told me that this mission would be do-able by everyone, starting at level 11. On a f2p account, I am having a hard time believing that, as my level 12 KDF toon is not cleared to go to the alpha quadrant, and does not have the dil to make the jump.
Yeah, there's a transwarp button on the mission hail window. It should take you right to the Alpha Quadrant
I found it, and was able to do the mission. Thank you both. Interesting mission, one that left me with mixed impressions. The ground-based stuff was annoying with Martok constantly thinking he had to park himself directly in front of me. I got to the point where I kinda wanted to hit him in the back of his head with the butt of my rifle. Space wise, I managed to eject warp plasma, which slowed the swarmers down considerably. slow them down, fly off, and let the mines I have been dragging around behind me do the rest.
Oh, and the reveal was awesome. I am looking forward to seeing what they do with this. I have some concerns, as have been expressed by others. But overall (and perhaps it is because I am still new to STO), I liked it.
Mission was fine, although characters without ridiculously OP ships will struggle with the last few parts.
Yeah, that is a bit of an understatement. lol I had warp plasma I could dump thanks to a bridge officer ability, and the mines I love dragging behind me. But that is where the fun ended. The beginning sucked, in kind of a funny way. "Hey look! Evil doers are firing some kind of projectile at that planet. Not quite in range, but it's close. Helm, go full impulse. We'll just catch up to it, and shoot it down before it... What do you mean it is going faster than we can!?" heh Yeah, definitely need to work on gear... lol
I loved it. I'm really glad to see that game expanding to, I hope, eventually include the Gamma Quadrant. It was also wonderful to see all the DS9 references, and the ending was a wonderful surprise. Hope to see more of "the character featured in the ending" (I think someone already mentioned who it is, but I've never been one for spoilers).
Also, while Bajor does seem like it's often featured as a "target" (and in some language somewhere maybe that's the definition of "Bajor")... I think it's worth pointing out that in the later years of TNG and throughout most of DS9, whenever the Tzenkethi came up in conversation between the characters, it was pretty clear they were fairly local to the Cardassian and Bajoran regions of space. With that being said, in STO, ultimately the Tzenkethi are prevented from carrying out what their goal is, so in thinking about that, it's not hard to fathom the Tzenkethi seeing DS9 as the heart of the Federation in their own particular locale. Just a thought, I think is worth sharing.
As to situations with diplomacy, STO doesn't have the kind of coding necessary to be a Mass Effect style of game when it comes to decisions, and lets face it, from a development standpoint, decision based games where the decisions actually do carry over from point to point are next to impossible to manage as single player games (Mass Effect is a wonderful series, but it's also proof over the course of 4 games of that exact statement) , so trying to do that with an MMO from a coding standpoint wouldn't be realistically possible because the cloud saves on the STO servers alone would have to be matched to other players on those specific story paths. In other words, think of those paths as "unlocks", so if one path is closed, then it'd be impossible for two players to team with each other if they'd both made different decisions that resulted in both of them having taken different paths in the stories. Think about that dynamic, but now multiply it for a game that supports thousands of players.
In short, for the idea of decision based gaming (with paths that don't involve combat as well) in an MMO like STO that does get more than its fair share of traffic, consider that it just isn't something that can realistically be done. Think about it this way if it helps; Like anything internet based that will at times be laggy, sometimes extremely laggy, try imagining (or don't because I shudder to even think about it as both a coder and server hardware expert myself)... how much MORE lag would occur with the servers having to keep track of more than player stats and player inventory such as each player's story path and the choices they've made while having to match each individual player to other players that have chosen the same path. For people running a fleet, it'd be almost impossible to hold events, so that's another thing to consider as well.
BTW, I really enjoyed a lot of the posts people made in this thread; however I would encourage people to stop talking about their DPS and stats in a thread that's more about the mission's content, and not about whatever builds you're using. For people that wanted to talk about that kind of thing, that should've happened on a separate thread. Being considerate of others doesn't end at the computer screen, it is supposed to and does extend through it. I ask the community to be mindful of that in the future, and I did really enjoy people's comments about the story, the mission, and what styles of story they foresee or would like to see in STO's future because that's on topic for what this thread is about.
BTW, I really enjoyed a lot of the posts people made in this thread; however I would encourage people to stop talking about their DPS and stats in a thread that's more about the mission's content, and not about whatever builds you're using. For people that wanted to talk about that kind of thing, that should've happened on a separate thread. Being considerate of others doesn't end at the computer screen, it is supposed to and does extend through it. I ask the community to be mindful of that in the future,
The small DPS talk IS related to the content of the mission as there is a significant discrepancy between actual gameplay and scripted sequences in it where everything around you is getting casually trashed while not only you aren't without having the best builds but you can easily make sure no-one is in danger.
It is an issue in this mission and it should be acknowledged as such, even if it's not a game-breaking issue.
Also, while Bajor does seem like it's often featured as a "target" (and in some language somewhere maybe that's the definition of "Bajor")... I think it's worth pointing out that in the later years of TNG and throughout most of DS9, whenever the Tzenkethi came up in conversation between the characters, it was pretty clear they were fairly local to the Cardassian and Bajoran regions of space. With that being said, in STO, ultimately the Tzenkethi are prevented from carrying out what their goal is, so in thinking about that, it's not hard to fathom the Tzenkethi seeing DS9 as the heart of the Federation in their own particular locale. Just a thought, I think is worth sharing.
The Tzenkethi homeworld in game is fairly close to the Bajoran sector on the map - it's somewhat surprising the 'Path of Angering Major Interstellar Governments' seems to pull them so far coreward to K-13, going by the map, they're really going off the beaten path.
I picture it as most Alliance ships are working to cover the Tzenkethi there while the Lukari are helping support remoter operations on the far side of Tzenkethi space with the help of your character.
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
I ran this mission twice. Once in Level 60 Fed Tactical officer with a T6 Nandi decked out with Mark 14 Very Rare or better gear. Antiproton beam FAW design. Ran through everything like Hot Knife through butter. AT the first planet, Martok still wasn't impressed with me. And even though the Tzenkethi Battle Station was shot up, I had to kill the last couple of ships to trigger going into the station to beat up the Tzenkethi admiral. The second character ran through was level 41 flying a tier 4 D"deridex with a mixed bag of gear that is mostly white and green Tier 4 to 8. At the first planet I missed on missile because I couldn't turn fast enough, got the same statement from Martok as the first guy who killed them all. The Battle over Bajor was just as easy as the other guy. And I am still left wondering why the DS9 was blown up by non-existing ships. Weird. Hur'q are no real threat to either guy. The only difference was the speed in which I got to battle, and the speed in which the battle ended.
AS for the mission itself. Story itself was weak when it came to the Tzenkethi and them surrendering. I wish that there was more dialog options to talk him into surrendering. Or even making him change his mind about our 'weakness' and to work with us. Fighting the Hur'q is different in that they actually have a preferred attack stance of following you and targeting the same rear shield arc. They actually made me think of how I was going to get them out of the arc and take them out. Once I got a plan figured out and executed they became predictable and easy to take out. I was disappointed that the mission ended with out the Dialog of what the Dominion wanted with us.
So basically, the gameplay was fun and different. The Story had a weak start but ended well. But the gameplay is totally disconnected from the Story and so keeps me from being immersed in the story. It's like your watch two different timelines of the same event.
The Tzenkethi homeworld in game is fairly close to the Bajoran sector on the map - it's somewhat surprising the 'Path of Angering Major Interstellar Governments' seems to pull them so far coreward to K-13, going by the map, they're really going off the beaten path.
I picture it as most Alliance ships are working to cover the Tzenkethi there while the Lukari are helping support remoter operations on the far side of Tzenkethi space with the help of your character.
According to the Star Trek Star Charts, which STO bases its in-game maps off of, the region of space near K-13, and New Kentar, is on the **** end of the explored(by the Federation) Alpha Quadrant. and really does represent the limits of explored space.
The only things really known to exist further out is the hostile and Xenophobic Breen confederacy, which exists a sector or two out from the map
Below is the STO galaxy mini-map, with the Star Trek Star Charts political boundaries roughly overlayed. As you can see, its mostly just Breen(the gold color) further out
Also, while Bajor does seem like it's often featured as a "target" (and in some language somewhere maybe that's the definition of "Bajor")... I think it's worth pointing out that in the later years of TNG and throughout most of DS9, whenever the Tzenkethi came up in conversation between the characters, it was pretty clear they were fairly local to the Cardassian and Bajoran regions of space. With that being said, in STO, ultimately the Tzenkethi are prevented from carrying out what their goal is, so in thinking about that, it's not hard to fathom the Tzenkethi seeing DS9 as the heart of the Federation in their own particular locale. Just a thought, I think is worth sharing.
The Tzenkethi homeworld in game is fairly close to the Bajoran sector on the map - it's somewhat surprising the 'Path of Angering Major Interstellar Governments' seems to pull them so far coreward to K-13, going by the map, they're really going off the beaten path.
I picture it as most Alliance ships are working to cover the Tzenkethi there while the Lukari are helping support remoter operations on the far side of Tzenkethi space with the help of your character.
@antonine3258 & @somtaawkhar - I agree with what both of you are saying in terms of the geography, but don't forget, in-game we're looking at a 2D map, and space is curved, so if we applied physics to the game design and blended the two, the Tzenkethi homeworld would actually appear much closer to DS9 as would K13. If nobody wants to go with science on this, then we can defer to simple strategy in which the Tzenkethi would most likely branch out in in two different directions, but in two stages with the first stage being to scout and attack the most remote outposts such as K13, and stage two being to cover their more localized assets and regions of space that would actually be on the lower part of the map. BTW; If you look really carefully at the galactic map posted by @somtaawkhar, it actually does illustrate some aspect of my first point, but all things considered, I will at least agree that between all of the examples given whether in the canon, the science I mentioned, or even in the illustrations, none of it is by any means perfect, but throwing them all together does at least allow everything to add up. Remember, when writing a fictional universe, there are always going to be some minor story and plot holes, so I'll concede to a limited point that none of the explanations provided by anyone are 100% perfect, but it's also not realistic of anyone to expect them to be.
One thing I love about Star Trek is that for the most part, much of the science is actually plausible and written by people who are fairly well researched in "creatively applying" actual science to the writing. In many respects, STO continues that same tradition, so to coin a phrase, "It all depends on how you 'look' at it."
Obviously there's a third and a fourth stage to the Tzenkethi's strategy with the third stage being to wipe out the Drantzuli, and the fourth leading to Scylla and Charybdis, but at this point that's hardly worth pointing out.
Comments
My tac's cannons pretty much ripped the Tzenkethi apart. I just replayed using this build:
and it was a totally different feel. Obviously, the phaser beams weren't hitting as hard as the cannons, so the targets took longer to take down, but that made it feel more of a challenge, and entertaining
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
As for people saying it's built around BFAW... there is another way to deal with them.
Gravity Well!
I can definitely see that the Hur'q will be another interesting fight. Since the Vaadwaur at least, the enemy types have been more varied in tactics, which makes for more fun.
So we have to be like the Hazard Team. Adapt flexible tactics for any given situation.
This first encounter tells me... swarm tactics seem to be a favorite of the Hur'q. We may need to adapt accordingly.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
there is something vicious about putting in a group that LOVES being gravity-welled into invulnerable bundles in the same mission as a bunch of light small ships that are easily grav-welled.
(Also fun against the swarm? Mines)
The mission itself was pretty good, but getting berated for 'attacking instantly' when I recall story blogs about complete repulse of diplomats when we tried to ask the Tzenkethi 'why are you suddenly killing billions' made me not shed many tears when their station blew up.
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
Fighting enemies like the swarmers is actually not that bad if it makes folk rethink builds even if that does mean googling the new meta for them.
Yeah, there's a transwarp button on the mission hail window. It should take you right to the Alpha Quadrant
Scatter volley and mines work just fine. No need to go into the lab to research ways to murder these dastardly enemies. Oh and gravimetric torpedos work too. I suspect the swarms may get bigger as cryptic love a trash mob, probably thrown in with a few capital ships.
And i am very happy about Odo coming back! Please, Please...let Kira Nerys come back too! Come on! bajor is in danger..Kira must pop up!
Also glad Loriss and dominion came back. i love dominion.
My only complain is about Tzenkethi..i got the feeling Tzenkethi were taken and kicked away very quickly...and taking over their fleet was very easy and the admiral surrendering...hmm...Tzenkethi seemed cowards running away instead of mighty warriors.
Overall i enjoyed very much the new episode, so my vote is 8/10.
There's an obvious difference between the shows and this game, when you consider the fact that the game is an MMORPG and you're not going to get away with little to no combat. Not when MMORPGs there to be combat involved.
In regards to the groups you stated, most of them are hostile.
Klingons: They started the mess because the Federation dismissed their claims about the Undine infiltrating the Gorn, thinking it was just an excuse for them to invade.
Romulans: Sela was never interested in being buddies with the Federation or the Klingons. Once again, anything we fought over, it was them who started it.
Iconians: They started basically everything up to the Temporal War.
Breen: they tend to be not so friendly individuals so we can let it slide.
Voth: It's a given that they do not like mammalian based lifeforms.
Tholians: We encroached on what they were doing. They don't exactly like other aliens exactly.
Other groups of course, we started by accident, like the Krenim problem was because we ended up accidentally erasing Noye's wife. The Na'kuhl were a result of the Temporal cycle that occurred from the Tholians disrupting their star because the Na'kuhl attacked them in the past.
The thing is that we've had to fight before we made peace with all of those groups, with exception of the Romulan Republic. What they want to see is stories that we don't have to fight, but to make peace instead.
The sad part was how swiftly we've basically dealt with the Tzenkethi and how little note was given to why exacty they attack Bajor (other than the usual, you know, everybody seems to want to attack Bajor anytime).
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
I tried with my D4x BOP which does have lower ranked gear, the same "only universal consoles from other ships" setup, and only one weapon that can target something that isn't in a 45° forwards angle (the experimental weapon of the Sistruus that takes 4 seconds to reload and has a significant travel speed). I still trashed the swarmers without being in danger of blowing up once.
What I'm saying is no matter what, your dps doesn't matter, the swarmers are a joke that shouldn't threaten any NPC ship in the mission.
I'll try with my Valkis later which is even lesser-equipped to see if the swarmers are a bigger threat to slow-moving targets.
The initial phases where you have to warp to different systems felt a bit dull, like the infamous DR system patrols. Kumarke turned up late each time and the Tzenkethi were their usual annoying self to kill. For some reason the tiny escorts were harder to kill than the big cruisers.
Then being at Bajor was quite nice, is that a new planet asset we had in the mission?
Having DS9 there was cool, added to the feeling for it being serious.
Fighting the Tzenkethi again was more of a chore than it was fun, they are just annoying more than anything with their immunity from the sides and rear.
The battlestation was way too easy to knock down compared to their little escorts.
The ground part was ok, but it felt like a rehash of the Iconian interiors I thought. Fighting the Tzenkethi on the ground is a bit better I think personally though they are more like raging animals there compared to their pretty laid back style in space.
The end fight was pretty mental I thought. Those swarmed die easily enough but those are only the initial waves I guess. Maybe it’ll get tougher once big ships start to appear.
It was odd how my allies got vaped by them when I was having no issues but I guess it’s hard to match our powercreepnwith that of the poor NPC’s. No supprise we had a funny mix of allies getting miles and us having a cakewalk.
That'd be nice for 2 reasons:
-if some ships don't show up, then the devs added a little consequence and that's always welcome
-if all ships do show up, then it means all the Tzenkethi protomattery genocidal campaign was for naught anyway since their main target was unharmed
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Since obviously the alliance is gonna find a solution in the end, so had the Tzenkethi just asked "we detected this massive threat to the galaxy can you help us?" the Hur'q could had been dealt with sooner and with less loss life.
Given Martok comments on the enemy ships being tough to hit, DS9 was probably having difficulty actually hitting anything.
Weapons aren't going to do much good if you can't hit what you're shooting at.
Combine that with Zerg Rush-style attacks and I'd say DS9 having trouble is a bit more justified this time.
and
I found it, and was able to do the mission. Thank you both. Interesting mission, one that left me with mixed impressions. The ground-based stuff was annoying with Martok constantly thinking he had to park himself directly in front of me. I got to the point where I kinda wanted to hit him in the back of his head with the butt of my rifle. Space wise, I managed to eject warp plasma, which slowed the swarmers down considerably. slow them down, fly off, and let the mines I have been dragging around behind me do the rest.
Oh, and the reveal was awesome. I am looking forward to seeing what they do with this. I have some concerns, as have been expressed by others. But overall (and perhaps it is because I am still new to STO), I liked it.
Yeah, that is a bit of an understatement. lol I had warp plasma I could dump thanks to a bridge officer ability, and the mines I love dragging behind me. But that is where the fun ended. The beginning sucked, in kind of a funny way. "Hey look! Evil doers are firing some kind of projectile at that planet. Not quite in range, but it's close. Helm, go full impulse. We'll just catch up to it, and shoot it down before it... What do you mean it is going faster than we can!?" heh Yeah, definitely need to work on gear... lol
Also, while Bajor does seem like it's often featured as a "target" (and in some language somewhere maybe that's the definition of "Bajor")... I think it's worth pointing out that in the later years of TNG and throughout most of DS9, whenever the Tzenkethi came up in conversation between the characters, it was pretty clear they were fairly local to the Cardassian and Bajoran regions of space. With that being said, in STO, ultimately the Tzenkethi are prevented from carrying out what their goal is, so in thinking about that, it's not hard to fathom the Tzenkethi seeing DS9 as the heart of the Federation in their own particular locale. Just a thought, I think is worth sharing.
As to situations with diplomacy, STO doesn't have the kind of coding necessary to be a Mass Effect style of game when it comes to decisions, and lets face it, from a development standpoint, decision based games where the decisions actually do carry over from point to point are next to impossible to manage as single player games (Mass Effect is a wonderful series, but it's also proof over the course of 4 games of that exact statement) , so trying to do that with an MMO from a coding standpoint wouldn't be realistically possible because the cloud saves on the STO servers alone would have to be matched to other players on those specific story paths. In other words, think of those paths as "unlocks", so if one path is closed, then it'd be impossible for two players to team with each other if they'd both made different decisions that resulted in both of them having taken different paths in the stories. Think about that dynamic, but now multiply it for a game that supports thousands of players.
In short, for the idea of decision based gaming (with paths that don't involve combat as well) in an MMO like STO that does get more than its fair share of traffic, consider that it just isn't something that can realistically be done. Think about it this way if it helps; Like anything internet based that will at times be laggy, sometimes extremely laggy, try imagining (or don't because I shudder to even think about it as both a coder and server hardware expert myself)... how much MORE lag would occur with the servers having to keep track of more than player stats and player inventory such as each player's story path and the choices they've made while having to match each individual player to other players that have chosen the same path. For people running a fleet, it'd be almost impossible to hold events, so that's another thing to consider as well.
BTW, I really enjoyed a lot of the posts people made in this thread; however I would encourage people to stop talking about their DPS and stats in a thread that's more about the mission's content, and not about whatever builds you're using. For people that wanted to talk about that kind of thing, that should've happened on a separate thread. Being considerate of others doesn't end at the computer screen, it is supposed to and does extend through it. I ask the community to be mindful of that in the future, and I did really enjoy people's comments about the story, the mission, and what styles of story they foresee or would like to see in STO's future because that's on topic for what this thread is about.
- Lifetime Gamer
It is an issue in this mission and it should be acknowledged as such, even if it's not a game-breaking issue.
The Tzenkethi homeworld in game is fairly close to the Bajoran sector on the map - it's somewhat surprising the 'Path of Angering Major Interstellar Governments' seems to pull them so far coreward to K-13, going by the map, they're really going off the beaten path.
I picture it as most Alliance ships are working to cover the Tzenkethi there while the Lukari are helping support remoter operations on the far side of Tzenkethi space with the help of your character.
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
AS for the mission itself. Story itself was weak when it came to the Tzenkethi and them surrendering. I wish that there was more dialog options to talk him into surrendering. Or even making him change his mind about our 'weakness' and to work with us. Fighting the Hur'q is different in that they actually have a preferred attack stance of following you and targeting the same rear shield arc. They actually made me think of how I was going to get them out of the arc and take them out. Once I got a plan figured out and executed they became predictable and easy to take out. I was disappointed that the mission ended with out the Dialog of what the Dominion wanted with us.
So basically, the gameplay was fun and different. The Story had a weak start but ended well. But the gameplay is totally disconnected from the Story and so keeps me from being immersed in the story. It's like your watch two different timelines of the same event.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
&
@antonine3258 & @somtaawkhar - I agree with what both of you are saying in terms of the geography, but don't forget, in-game we're looking at a 2D map, and space is curved, so if we applied physics to the game design and blended the two, the Tzenkethi homeworld would actually appear much closer to DS9 as would K13. If nobody wants to go with science on this, then we can defer to simple strategy in which the Tzenkethi would most likely branch out in in two different directions, but in two stages with the first stage being to scout and attack the most remote outposts such as K13, and stage two being to cover their more localized assets and regions of space that would actually be on the lower part of the map. BTW; If you look really carefully at the galactic map posted by @somtaawkhar, it actually does illustrate some aspect of my first point, but all things considered, I will at least agree that between all of the examples given whether in the canon, the science I mentioned, or even in the illustrations, none of it is by any means perfect, but throwing them all together does at least allow everything to add up. Remember, when writing a fictional universe, there are always going to be some minor story and plot holes, so I'll concede to a limited point that none of the explanations provided by anyone are 100% perfect, but it's also not realistic of anyone to expect them to be.
One thing I love about Star Trek is that for the most part, much of the science is actually plausible and written by people who are fairly well researched in "creatively applying" actual science to the writing. In many respects, STO continues that same tradition, so to coin a phrase, "It all depends on how you 'look' at it."
Obviously there's a third and a fourth stage to the Tzenkethi's strategy with the third stage being to wipe out the Drantzuli, and the fourth leading to Scylla and Charybdis, but at this point that's hardly worth pointing out.
- Lifetime Gamer