Personally I would love it if they showed that Tzenkethi campaign wasn't even effective, in essence show that not only was not asking aid from the alliance a mistake, but the solution they came up was for naught anyway.
Since obviously the alliance is gonna find a solution in the end, so had the Tzenkethi just asked "we detected this massive threat to the galaxy can you help us?" the Hur'q could had been dealt with sooner and with less loss life.
idr if anyone responded in the pages since, but it bears saying; remember in... i want to say it was Echoes of Light, when you discover that the Tzenkethi are using protomatter bombs to eradicate all life on planets, how when you reach the crystal cave in the temple Kuumarke mentions that it's ground zero for the detonation? Sure doesn't look like it eradicated a single crystal. Either they grow back really quickly, the Drantzuli eggs have an inorganic crystal shell and the bombs kill the incubating bug inside, or... they're not doing a darn thing.
Well, NOT the right mission to try out "Lock Trajectory" for the first time ever.....but it was great fun (and laughs all around on shooting while flying the wrong direction).
Yeah, I needed to try something slower to practice how this is supposed to work.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Personally I would love it if they showed that Tzenkethi campaign wasn't even effective, in essence show that not only was not asking aid from the alliance a mistake, but the solution they came up was for naught anyway.
Since obviously the alliance is gonna find a solution in the end, so had the Tzenkethi just asked "we detected this massive threat to the galaxy can you help us?" the Hur'q could had been dealt with sooner and with less loss life.
idr if anyone responded in the pages since, but it bears saying; remember in... i want to say it was Echoes of Light, when you discover that the Tzenkethi are using protomatter bombs to eradicate all life on planets, how when you reach the crystal cave in the temple Kuumarke mentions that it's ground zero for the detonation? Sure doesn't look like it eradicated a single crystal. Either they grow back really quickly, the Drantzuli eggs have an inorganic crystal shell and the bombs kill the incubating bug inside, or... they're not doing a darn thing.
I am not sure that they were trying to destroy the eggs on the worlds, but more trying to get rid of what the Drantzuli would be using to bring back/power the Hur'q and their technology. Think of it like the Orcs of warhammer 40k, once they land on a world almost the only way to get rid of the Orc infestation is to basically nuke the world an eradicate all life on it, which is similar with the Nids if you want to slow down the progress of the Nids you destroy the bio-matter they use to fuel themselves IE any living things they can eat.
So what if the Drantzuli either only hatch when a world they are on reaches a specific point in resources that can be obtained from it, or that they cultivate the many resources on the world an using these revive their Hur'q master. Or if they are merely a stage of life in the life-cycle of the Hur'q they need to feed on a certain amount of resources to change into their adult stage that is the more typical Hur'q the Klingons know.
Absolutely loving how the Bajoran shield effect looks on the ship too... In the light it shows up, but in space/shadow, it's near invisible, almost as if it's a kind of basic/visual stealth-coating, so pretty ideal for a slaving vessel
the bajoran shields have visuals? well, all i can say to that is...it's about fracking time! that's the first free set piece that's had visuals since the jem'hadar stuff over FIVE...YEARS...AGO
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Absolutely loving how the Bajoran shield effect looks on the ship too... In the light it shows up, but in space/shadow, it's near invisible, almost as if it's a kind of basic/visual stealth-coating, so pretty ideal for a slaving vessel
the bajoran shields have visuals? well, all i can say to that is...it's about fracking time! that's the first free set piece that's had visuals since the jem'hadar stuff over FIVE...YEARS...AGO
"Indeed..." - Teal'c
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
idr if anyone responded in the pages since, but it bears saying; remember in... i want to say it was Echoes of Light, when you discover that the Tzenkethi are using protomatter bombs to eradicate all life on planets, how when you reach the crystal cave in the temple Kuumarke mentions that it's ground zero for the detonation? Sure doesn't look like it eradicated a single crystal. Either they grow back really quickly, the Drantzuli eggs have an inorganic crystal shell and the bombs kill the incubating bug inside, or... they're not doing a darn thing.
The Drantzuli eggs are said to be made out of germanium, which is metalloid substance.
Personally I would love it if they showed that Tzenkethi campaign wasn't even effective, in essence show that not only was not asking aid from the alliance a mistake, but the solution they came up was for naught anyway.
Since obviously the alliance is gonna find a solution in the end, so had the Tzenkethi just asked "we detected this massive threat to the galaxy can you help us?" the Hur'q could had been dealt with sooner and with less loss life.
idr if anyone responded in the pages since, but it bears saying; remember in... i want to say it was Echoes of Light, when you discover that the Tzenkethi are using protomatter bombs to eradicate all life on planets, how when you reach the crystal cave in the temple Kuumarke mentions that it's ground zero for the detonation? Sure doesn't look like it eradicated a single crystal. Either they grow back really quickly, the Drantzuli eggs have an inorganic crystal shell and the bombs kill the incubating bug inside, or... they're not doing a darn thing.
I am not sure that they were trying to destroy the eggs on the worlds, but more trying to get rid of what the Drantzuli would be using to bring back/power the Hur'q and their technology. Think of it like the Orcs of warhammer 40k, once they land on a world almost the only way to get rid of the Orc infestation is to basically nuke the world an eradicate all life on it, which is similar with the Nids if you want to slow down the progress of the Nids you destroy the bio-matter they use to fuel themselves IE any living things they can eat.
So what if the Drantzuli either only hatch when a world they are on reaches a specific point in resources that can be obtained from it, or that they cultivate the many resources on the world an using these revive their Hur'q master. Or if they are merely a stage of life in the life-cycle of the Hur'q they need to feed on a certain amount of resources to change into their adult stage that is the more typical Hur'q the Klingons know.
The crystals changed color after protomatter exposure. So even if not destroyed they may have been rendered inert.
If Weyouns track record is anything to go by, I doubt it's very likely a Vorta could go for several decades without being replaced at least once. The first we see is probably either 1 or 2.
Hopefully Lorriss has more loyal allies than Gul Dukat and Gul Damar...
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Personally I would love it if they showed that Tzenkethi campaign wasn't even effective, in essence show that not only was not asking aid from the alliance a mistake, but the solution they came up was for naught anyway.
Since obviously the alliance is gonna find a solution in the end, so had the Tzenkethi just asked "we detected this massive threat to the galaxy can you help us?" the Hur'q could had been dealt with sooner and with less loss life.
idr if anyone responded in the pages since, but it bears saying; remember in... i want to say it was Echoes of Light, when you discover that the Tzenkethi are using protomatter bombs to eradicate all life on planets, how when you reach the crystal cave in the temple Kuumarke mentions that it's ground zero for the detonation? Sure doesn't look like it eradicated a single crystal. Either they grow back really quickly, the Drantzuli eggs have an inorganic crystal shell and the bombs kill the incubating bug inside, or... they're not doing a darn thing.
I am not sure that they were trying to destroy the eggs on the worlds, but more trying to get rid of what the Drantzuli would be using to bring back/power the Hur'q and their technology. Think of it like the Orcs of warhammer 40k, once they land on a world almost the only way to get rid of the Orc infestation is to basically nuke the world an eradicate all life on it, which is similar with the Nids if you want to slow down the progress of the Nids you destroy the bio-matter they use to fuel themselves IE any living things they can eat.
So what if the Drantzuli either only hatch when a world they are on reaches a specific point in resources that can be obtained from it, or that they cultivate the many resources on the world an using these revive their Hur'q master. Or if they are merely a stage of life in the life-cycle of the Hur'q they need to feed on a certain amount of resources to change into their adult stage that is the more typical Hur'q the Klingons know.
The crystals changed color after protomatter exposure. So even if not destroyed they may have been rendered inert.
That or just without the other resources that the Protomatter bombs had destroyed they could not sustain themselves. Could see both as possibilities.
> @saurializard said: > Message eaten by forums again. Thanks copy-paste: > I thought it was obvious from Quinn's debriefing in I-don't-know-which mission and what the Tzenkethi admiral said that the Alliance tried to negotiate and the Tzenkethi governement basically flipped them the Great Bird of the Galaxy as a answer because it didn't deem the Alliance trustworthy/strong enough.
Yeah, but I think this is the Voth all over again. I.e. we should have been SHOWN the attempt to negotiate (which would be a nice excuse to see Jiro Sugihara get his damn fool head blown off finally).
I also don't like the ending where the Zennies run off after we (supposedly*) risk life and limb to protect the evacuation. I'm unpleasantly reminded of how the Vaads got given a handwave of "oh, Eldex conveniently turned on us offscreen so we're enemies again now".
* The Phantom I was leveling with a hodgepodge build made mincemeat out of the Hur'q. As enemies go they are distinctly underwhelming.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Also not sure, but would the Vaadwaur not possibly descend into a civil war between the Gaul loyalists an those that are fallowing Eldex. I mean that would explain why they still attack us as those are the Gual loyalists attacking us.
Loriss likely died in the Hur'q invasion of the Gamma Quadrant, rather then the Founders killing her.
Yeah, this seems far more likely. Of course, it could be that Loriss 4 was created because Loriss 3 was MIA and presumed dead. Wait... I'm not 100% sure the other Loriss was 3. Might have been 1 or 2 for all we know.
Fun fact about Loriss, according to Gecko, they had the new VA re-record all of Loriss's lines from the 2800 arc.
So now Loriss will have one VA throughout the game
Yeah - Michele Specht, from Star Trek continues.
Which means, considering we also have Kipleigh Brown voicing Captain Kumarke, we have two Star Trek Continues actresses doing STO voice-work.
(Technically three since Chris Doohan did some voice work for STO too - but so far as I know that was a one-off).
According to IMDB, she' also listed as the voice of Krog. imdb.com/name/nm1073676/
Guess that means she's worked for Cryptic/STO before.
Loriss likely died in the Hur'q invasion of the Gamma Quadrant, rather then the Founders killing her.
Yeah, this seems far more likely. Of course, it could be that Loriss 4 was created because Loriss 3 was MIA and presumed dead. Wait... I'm not 100% sure the other Loriss was 3. Might have been 1 or 2 for all we know.
Fun fact about Loriss, according to Gecko, they had the new VA re-record all of Loriss's lines from the 2800 arc.
So now Loriss will have one VA throughout the game
Yeah - Michele Specht, from Star Trek continues.
Which means, considering we also have Kipleigh Brown voicing Captain Kumarke, we have two Star Trek Continues actresses doing STO voice-work.
(Technically three since Chris Doohan did some voice work for STO too - but so far as I know that was a one-off).
According to IMDB, she' also listed as the voice of Krog. imdb.com/name/nm1073676/
Guess that means she's worked for Cryptic/STO before.
And she was awesome as Krog.
That is until Temporal Reckoning where, after everything she has seen about us (trash Vosk's ship and kick his rear, compromised the meeting at Galorndon Core, sabotaged the Doomsday Machine, captured her after she tried to kill both Klingon and Fed leadership and thwarted her squadron sent to kill Dano's ancestor), she still tries to kill us with a freaking sword.
And speaking of VA, I'm pretty sure it's once again Lani Minella as Neth Parr. She voices about half of the whole cast in this game with various filters.
I also don't like the ending where the Zennies run off after we (supposedly*) risk life and limb to protect the evacuation.
Well, to be fair, even Neth Parr is ticked off at the cowardice, but I do think it was spite, instead, which many Tzenkethi seem filled with.
From Tzenkethi eyes, you're participating in a noble crusade to save the whole galaxies. Sure you're committing genocide on unaware civilizations and when they defend themselves because they don't think it's cool to do that, you make sure they go extinct, but... that's crusades for you. Can't make omelets without breaking some eggs.
Then, those [CENSORED] of the Alliance arrive and interfere with the wonderful plans of your Great Supreme Leader. Many times.
Then, your admiral personally goes to Bajor's orbit to make an example of the Alliance scum.
Then, his protegee Neth Parr betrays you all to side with the Butcher of all people and forces your Admiral to call an armistice, which he begrudgingly accepts. Needless to say, you're pretty much very unhappy about that, but the admiral says so, so you can't complain much.
Then, the Hur'q arrive and because of the Alliance trashing your ships you don't have enough anymore and are getting slaughtered.
Then, your admiral tells you to GTFO and leave the traitorous captain behind.
The only answer you can give is an approving "YES, SIR!!" as you go into warp, collectively TRIBBLE at those meddling buffoons and leaving them to face the consequences of their act!
But it's still higher DPS than the mission requires Do you have any T5 or T4 ships in your available list? Load one with Mk X/Mk XII gear, and exchange consoles like shield emitters, prefire chambers, monotanium plating etc, and then replay the mission.
Alright, I'll entertain you some more.
No-console run and I didn't repair some minor damage from a couple of earlier Elite Crystalline runs because I was out of components on that character:
I died exactly once against the swarmers because I somehow managed to get about 12 on my tail at once and Gravity Well was still on cooldown. The rest was a very enthusiastic walk in the woods as Hellsing's Alucard with the exception of the Tzenkethi encounters because, due to lesser damage, it took longer to take them and their torpedoes down.
So basically, the Hur'q are only a threat to tier 5 ships with no console and CC abilities on cooldown, when they're in a group of at least 10.
Yet, the story wants to make you believe they manage to trash DS9, Tzenkethi, Bajoran and Alliance squadrons with ease.
That's my issue. The Tzenkethi ships are a bigger threat than them.
Obviously, having played the mission before, will give you the advantage of foreknowledge for strategies,
What kind of strategies would the swarmers even require compared to other weak annoying-to-target fighter types from the game? CC and AoE if your ship allows it. And not stopping moving.
but I'll suspect that you'll find the mission more of a challenge (not impossible, but more of a challenge) than you have with your previously listed builds
Having a ship with less hull, less firepower and fewer consoles would make a mission in it more difficult? I'm truly baffled at that concept.
First of all, apologies for missing this post the other day, the page had turned, and I didn't think to look back, so that's my bad, and, in the words of SlimShady, don't think I did that TRIBBLE intentional just to diss you
So to the topic...
A mission like that, in a massively maneauverable ship, and you're still wondering why you're having no trouble?? Either this is a deliberate trolling for the lulz, or I'm going to have to start questioning your level of self-awareness
A couple of examples, before I give this up as being wilfully ignorant:
Guy brings and Uzi to a knife-fight and wonders why he splattered someone over the sidewalk...
Guy pulls away from the lights in a Lamborghini Gallardo, and wonders why he's thrashed the pants off an AMC Pacer...
Is the comparison of the situation any clearer?
I have literally just started levelling a new KDF tac, and I would offer to run the episode when she hits the right rank, but, as my plan for her is to level her exclusively through Deep Space Encounters, I'm not going to break the plan just to get blown up to prove the theory
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Also not sure, but would the Vaadwaur not possibly descend into a civil war between the Gaul loyalists an those that are fallowing Eldex. I mean that would explain why they still attack us as those are the Gual loyalists attacking us.
^This, just because we killed Gaul, doesn't mean everyone on his side suddenly jumped ship onto Eldex's side.
We killed Hakeev, and we still see Tal Shiar agents operating on their own, or in small groups, throughout the rest of the game. They didn't all just jump ship to the Republic.
Yup. I mean for better or worse Gaul was a very (at least was trying to be portrayed) as a very charismatic character, and actually was wanting to something quite noble in returning his people to their past glory (regardless of how we might feel.). These types of things an people tend to create quite zealous people, which even after their leaders die they endure an create more that fallow in kind.
Also I see the Tzenkethi genocidal crusade alot like the many crusades that were undertaken in the medieval period by both sides to etake the holy land. Alot of terrible things were done by all involved, and even though many might have known how terrible the things were, they still did them for the greater good.
A mission like that, in a massively maneauverable ship, and you're still wondering why you're having no trouble?? Either this is a deliberate trolling for the lulz, or I'm going to have to start questioning your level of self-awareness
A couple of examples, before I give this up as being wilfully ignorant:
Guy brings and Uzi to a knife-fight and wonders why he splattered someone over the sidewalk...
Guy pulls away from the lights in a Lamborghini Gallardo, and wonders why he's thrashed the pants off an AMC Pacer...
Is the comparison of the situation any clearer?
I have literally just started levelling a new KDF tac, and I would offer to run the episode when she hits the right rank, but, as my plan for her is to level her exclusively through Deep Space Encounters, I'm not going to break the plan just to get blown up to prove the theory
Just as I expected, the goalposts keep moving and now self-awareness itself is questioned, and the point is still getting missed on purpose.
Also, by the way, it's not even "massively" maneuverable for an escort with a turn rate of 17 considering most have a turn rate of 15-16, even the higher and lower-tiered ones.
Also I see the Tzenkethi genocidal crusade alot like the many crusades that were undertaken in the medieval period by both sides to etake the holy land. Alot of terrible things were done by all involved, and even though many might have known how terrible the things were, they still did them for the greater good.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions", except the Tzenkethi went to make a 8-lane highway.
A mission like that, in a massively maneauverable ship, and you're still wondering why you're having no trouble?? Either this is a deliberate trolling for the lulz, or I'm going to have to start questioning your level of self-awareness
A couple of examples, before I give this up as being wilfully ignorant:
Guy brings and Uzi to a knife-fight and wonders why he splattered someone over the sidewalk...
Guy pulls away from the lights in a Lamborghini Gallardo, and wonders why he's thrashed the pants off an AMC Pacer...
Is the comparison of the situation any clearer?
I have literally just started levelling a new KDF tac, and I would offer to run the episode when she hits the right rank, but, as my plan for her is to level her exclusively through Deep Space Encounters, I'm not going to break the plan just to get blown up to prove the theory
Just as I expected, the goalposts keep moving and now self-awareness itself is questioned, and the point is still getting missed on purpose.
Also, by the way, it's not even "massively" maneuverable for an escort with a turn rate of 17 considering most have a turn rate of 15-16, even the higher and lower-tiered ones.
Don't try with that 'moving the goalposts' projection/evasion. Don't try and divert by saying that it's [the ship] not massively manoeuvrable* (*compared to other escorts.) See, YOU'RE the one shifting the goalposts, to try and stop the definitions sticking, and accusing me of doing that, because you don't want to accept the point which was made. And yes, I will question your motives and level of self-awareness, in a conversation where you are claiming to 'not get' a concept which should be obvious to anyone with an IQ above room-temperature.
Let me lay it out SuperSimple:
The stuff you are using (be it ship and or equipment) IS TOO GOOD FOR THE LEVEL.
It doesn't matter if it's T5 or Mk X gear ("Because that's what you said, you never said what T5 ship or Mk X gear!") the fact is, it's TOO GOOD FOR THE LEVEL.
Is that clear and simple enough. If 'Yes', awesome, we've got to the point of understanding If 'No', I'm going to have to assume that you either can't, or won't, grasp the point, because you just want to say that you find the level ridiculously easy, so in either case, there's nothing more to say
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> @somtaawkhar said: > Eldex never turned on us though, and its stated that, while he didn't join the Alliance, he isn't continuing Gaul's campaign of conquest.
My point is I'm getting sick and tired of all our major non-player faction enemies being either A: absolute xenophobes EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE GUY who results in no significant change in relations (Tal Shiar, non-TS Romulan Empire, True Way, Vaads, Voth, Iconians, and now Tzenkethi), or B: insufficiently sapient to negotiate with (Borg, bluegills, and likely the Hur'q).
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
The stuff you are using (be it ship and or equipment) IS TOO GOOD FOR THE LEVEL.
It doesn't matter if it's T5 or Mk X gear ("Because that's what you said, you never said what T5 ship or Mk X gear!") the fact is, it's TOO GOOD FOR THE LEVEL.
Is that clear and simple enough. If 'Yes', awesome, we've got to the point of understanding If 'No', I'm going to have to assume that you either can't, or won't, grasp the point, because you just want to say that you find the level ridiculously easy, so in either case, there's nothing more to say
Emphasis mine.
Also... Once more, more "supersimple", hopefully this time:
THAT'S.
THE.
ENTIRE.
ISSUE.
WITH.
THIS.
LEVEL!!
Nothing should be too good for this portion of the level, especially on a fragile escort!! All the ships and space stations around you are getting utterly annihilated with ease and the Hur'q are so hyped in the cutscene and character talks as an even bigger menace than the Iconians while they don't pose any threat to you in gameplay unless you make a rookie mistake or are so new to the game you don't know the basics of most encounters.
In fact, they're not even really a threat to any allied ship in real gameplay, either. In fact, it's kinda hard to get the 70-kill accolade of the mission because your allies can blow them up and the swarmers are such in tight formations that a lot more times often than not, blowing one up can blow up the entire formation. Heck, you get no talks from your Boffs to build up suspense and make it at least look like you're gonna die no matter your efforts. Heck, none of the ships of the main characters gets disabled.
Wanna know how I'd make the Hur'q better because I'm not just complaining without giving suggestions?
Well, how about these:
-Boffs talks showing you're taking more and more damage. Even if it's not impacted on your health or performance, just a flavor text. After all, in Star Trek, ships are usually very fine no matter what happens to them unless the Warp core is damaged, in that case they're already dead.
-A Battle of Caleb IV-like system (which by the way is MUCH harder of a fight than that) where once your ship reaches close to zero, a cutscene happens.
-a little cheat, but it can work: you ship gets a DoT debuff and visual that can't be dispelt where swarmers are seeing ramming it, and the goal is to kill as many swarmers as possible before you're disabled
-allow the allied ships to be disabled
-give the Hero ship coming to save you an epic cutscene full of hope... which is immediately followed by a cutscene of it getting curbstomped and disabled for the rest of the mission. What better way in Prime timeline Star Trek to show the enemy means business when it guts the freaking Enterprise in seconds?
-make Martok and Kurn like they think none of them is gonna make it. Right now, they're giving a few of this vibe, but I dunno, it's very tame and it feels more of a "Meh, we just need to adapt our tactics a tiny bit, nothing grim. Plus you're probably already doing that because you figured it out before us, sooo... yeah."
-have the Dominion fleet lose most of its ships in the process
-or have it arrive with some ships on fire to show even in the Gamma Quadrant, the Hur'q are putting a serious fight
-overall, make the fight feel more hopeless and when you win, it feels like a pyrrhic victory. I mean, sure DS9 gets more damaged than ever seen in the game and series (except in a few alternate timelines) and when it happens the first time, you're like "wow, are they actually doing this for real, this time? Are they gonna damage it so much to tickle the status quo for once?", but other characters treat it like a minor nuisance at best.
It's even made fun of it with the Kurland bit.
Heck, when Parr is in troubles and asks for asylum, who grants it first? DS9! The utterly trashed station that is falling apart and that may be finished off at any instant instead of the ship that carries the members of the Alliance she has been interacting with the most.
The battle just didn't feel like a good battle. Just as simple as that. Heck, even the accolades kinda support it. You can get one if you blow up 70 swarmers in the last part of the battle and it's surprisingly challenging to get it because your allies can easily steal your kills, and since blowing up one ship can result in the whole squadron going into flames, you can fail the challenge pretty early.
I didn't even know there was accolades for this... probably should have expected it.
The fact that the torps count as Tzenkethi ships just means I can do the days Endeavour and the Accolade in one playthrough before even reaching Bajor.
The stuff you are using (be it ship and or equipment) IS TOO GOOD FOR THE LEVEL.
It doesn't matter if it's T5 or Mk X gear ("Because that's what you said, you never said what T5 ship or Mk X gear!") the fact is, it's TOO GOOD FOR THE LEVEL.
Is that clear and simple enough. If 'Yes', awesome, we've got to the point of understanding If 'No', I'm going to have to assume that you either can't, or won't, grasp the point, because you just want to say that you find the level ridiculously easy, so in either case, there's nothing more to say
Emphasis mine.
Also... Once more, more "supersimple", hopefully this time:
THAT'S.
THE.
ENTIRE.
ISSUE.
WITH.
THIS.
LEVEL!!
Nothing should be too good for this portion of the level, especially on a fragile escort!! All the ships and space stations around you are getting utterly annihilated with ease and the Hur'q are so hyped in the cutscene and character talks as an even bigger menace than the Iconians while they don't pose any threat to you in gameplay unless you make a rookie mistake or are so new to the game you don't know the basics of most encounters.
In fact, they're not even really a threat to any allied ship in real gameplay, either. In fact, it's kinda hard to get the 70-kill accolade of the mission because your allies can blow them up and the swarmers are such in tight formations that a lot more times often than not, blowing one up can blow up the entire formation. Heck, you get no talks from your Boffs to build up suspense and make it at least look like you're gonna die no matter your efforts. Heck, none of the ships of the main characters gets disabled.
Wanna know how I'd make the Hur'q better because I'm not just complaining without giving suggestions?
Well, how about these:
-Boffs talks showing you're taking more and more damage. Even if it's not impacted on your health or performance, just a flavor text. After all, in Star Trek, ships are usually very fine no matter what happens to them unless the Warp core is damaged, in that case they're already dead.
-A Battle of Caleb IV-like system (which by the way is MUCH harder of a fight than that) where once your ship reaches close to zero, a cutscene happens.
-a little cheat, but it can work: you ship gets a DoT debuff and visual that can't be dispelt where swarmers are seeing ramming it, and the goal is to kill as many swarmers as possible before you're disabled
-allow the allied ships to be disabled
-give the Hero ship coming to save you an epic cutscene full of hope... which is immediately followed by a cutscene of it getting curbstomped and disabled for the rest of the mission. What better way in Prime timeline Star Trek to show the enemy means business when it guts the freaking Enterprise in seconds?
-make Martok and Kurn like they think none of them is gonna make it. Right now, they're giving a few of this vibe, but I dunno, it's very tame and it feels more of a "Meh, we just need to adapt our tactics a tiny bit, nothing grim. Plus you're probably already doing that because you figured it out before us, sooo... yeah."
-have the Dominion fleet lose most of its ships in the process
-or have it arrive with some ships on fire to show even in the Gamma Quadrant, the Hur'q are putting a serious fight
-overall, make the fight feel more hopeless and when you win, it feels like a pyrrhic victory. I mean, sure DS9 gets more damaged than ever seen in the game and series (except in a few alternate timelines) and when it happens the first time, you're like "wow, are they actually doing this for real, this time? Are they gonna damage it so much to tickle the status quo for once?", but other characters treat it like a minor nuisance at best.
It's even made fun of it with the Kurland bit.
Heck, when Parr is in troubles and asks for asylum, who grants it first? DS9! The utterly trashed station that is falling apart and that may be finished off at any instant instead of the ship that carries the members of the Alliance she has been interacting with the most.
The battle just didn't feel like a good battle. Just as simple as that. Heck, even the accolades kinda support it. You can get one if you blow up 70 swarmers in the last part of the battle and it's surprisingly challenging to get it because your allies can easily steal your kills, and since blowing up one ship can result in the whole squadron going into flames, you can fail the challenge pretty early.
Well, I see what you're saying, but: That's the episode we were given... :shrug: TBH, 'as an episode', I think it's one of the worst written/executed missions I've played. I hate the amount of Martok which gets rammed down our throats, especially when playing as a Fed. Kurn (did the Martok/Son'a mission have him regaining his identity? I didn't play it) felt unnecessary and added 'for the sake of it'. We shouldn't need to be told of Captain Parr's defection, because she already stood up to her Admiral in Melting Pot. And the audio-snipped at the end, that is just embarassing compared to the quality of the rest of the VO work. Having played the mission as both Fed and KDF, I would say it would have been better if all Martok's 'briefings' were only for KDF, with Fed players getting the info from Geordi: Not any different dialogues, literally just seperate the two sets of briefings to give two perspectives for the two factions. The two together, just feels redundant, IMO.
Is the accolade you're meaning called Seeds of Success, or something like that? If so, I've gotten that each time... I found the episode harder with my L60 KDF science wizard, than I did with the KDF tac I'm levelling in Encounters (I only did the mission, because I wanted the vanity shield) The tac has Emitter-linked dual cannons, the sci has a build of disruptor cannons and turrets. The L60 really needs a better ship and better gear, where the tac has gear which cuts through the content... My L60 Fed tac, also cut through the content (the Tzenkethi ludicrously so) with a build of cannons (but got swamped by the Hur'q swarmers) IMO, the episode was coded to be easy enough that players won't mind repeating it to get the set, and so it's pretty easy to come equipped with better than the level needs...
Now for all that I absolutely hate about the episode, I absolutely love playing it, because the battles are a good bit of fun
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Comments
idr if anyone responded in the pages since, but it bears saying; remember in... i want to say it was Echoes of Light, when you discover that the Tzenkethi are using protomatter bombs to eradicate all life on planets, how when you reach the crystal cave in the temple Kuumarke mentions that it's ground zero for the detonation? Sure doesn't look like it eradicated a single crystal. Either they grow back really quickly, the Drantzuli eggs have an inorganic crystal shell and the bombs kill the incubating bug inside, or... they're not doing a darn thing.
Yeah, I needed to try something slower to practice how this is supposed to work.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I am not sure that they were trying to destroy the eggs on the worlds, but more trying to get rid of what the Drantzuli would be using to bring back/power the Hur'q and their technology. Think of it like the Orcs of warhammer 40k, once they land on a world almost the only way to get rid of the Orc infestation is to basically nuke the world an eradicate all life on it, which is similar with the Nids if you want to slow down the progress of the Nids you destroy the bio-matter they use to fuel themselves IE any living things they can eat.
So what if the Drantzuli either only hatch when a world they are on reaches a specific point in resources that can be obtained from it, or that they cultivate the many resources on the world an using these revive their Hur'q master. Or if they are merely a stage of life in the life-cycle of the Hur'q they need to feed on a certain amount of resources to change into their adult stage that is the more typical Hur'q the Klingons know.
the bajoran shields have visuals? well, all i can say to that is...it's about fracking time! that's the first free set piece that's had visuals since the jem'hadar stuff over FIVE...YEARS...AGO
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
[Emotes] Raysah@sharmutashlikha#2072: Qapla', Captain Nog!
Raysah@sharmutashlikha#2072 salutes Captain Nog with respect.
R'Miia@sharmutashlikha#2072 stands attentively for Captain Nog.
R'Miia@sharmutashlikha#2072 salutes Captain Nog.
She'Roars@sharmutashlikha#2072 stands attentively for Captain Nog.
[Emotes] She'Roars@sharmutashlikha#2072: Qapla', Captain Nog!
She'Roars@sharmutashlikha#2072 salutes Captain Nog with respect.
Yozit'yaza@sharmutashlikha#2072 stands attentively for Nog.
Yozit'yaza@sharmutashlikha#2072 salutes Nog.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
That or just without the other resources that the Protomatter bombs had destroyed they could not sustain themselves. Could see both as possibilities.
> Message eaten by forums again. Thanks copy-paste:
> I thought it was obvious from Quinn's debriefing in I-don't-know-which mission and what the Tzenkethi admiral said that the Alliance tried to negotiate and the Tzenkethi governement basically flipped them the Great Bird of the Galaxy as a answer because it didn't deem the Alliance trustworthy/strong enough.
Yeah, but I think this is the Voth all over again. I.e. we should have been SHOWN the attempt to negotiate (which would be a nice excuse to see Jiro Sugihara get his damn fool head blown off finally).
I also don't like the ending where the Zennies run off after we (supposedly*) risk life and limb to protect the evacuation. I'm unpleasantly reminded of how the Vaads got given a handwave of "oh, Eldex conveniently turned on us offscreen so we're enemies again now".
* The Phantom I was leveling with a hodgepodge build made mincemeat out of the Hur'q. As enemies go they are distinctly underwhelming.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
According to IMDB, she' also listed as the voice of Krog.
imdb.com/name/nm1073676/
Guess that means she's worked for Cryptic/STO before.
And she was awesome as Krog.
That is until Temporal Reckoning where, after everything she has seen about us (trash Vosk's ship and kick his rear, compromised the meeting at Galorndon Core, sabotaged the Doomsday Machine, captured her after she tried to kill both Klingon and Fed leadership and thwarted her squadron sent to kill Dano's ancestor), she still tries to kill us with a freaking sword.
And speaking of VA, I'm pretty sure it's once again Lani Minella as Neth Parr. She voices about half of the whole cast in this game with various filters.
Well, to be fair, even Neth Parr is ticked off at the cowardice, but I do think it was spite, instead, which many Tzenkethi seem filled with.
From Tzenkethi eyes, you're participating in a noble crusade to save the whole galaxies. Sure you're committing genocide on unaware civilizations and when they defend themselves because they don't think it's cool to do that, you make sure they go extinct, but... that's crusades for you. Can't make omelets without breaking some eggs.
Then, those [CENSORED] of the Alliance arrive and interfere with the wonderful plans of your Great Supreme Leader. Many times.
Then, your admiral personally goes to Bajor's orbit to make an example of the Alliance scum.
Then, his protegee Neth Parr betrays you all to side with the Butcher of all people and forces your Admiral to call an armistice, which he begrudgingly accepts. Needless to say, you're pretty much very unhappy about that, but the admiral says so, so you can't complain much.
Then, the Hur'q arrive and because of the Alliance trashing your ships you don't have enough anymore and are getting slaughtered.
Then, your admiral tells you to GTFO and leave the traitorous captain behind.
The only answer you can give is an approving "YES, SIR!!" as you go into warp, collectively TRIBBLE at those meddling buffoons and leaving them to face the consequences of their act!
So to the topic...
A mission like that, in a massively maneauverable ship, and you're still wondering why you're having no trouble?? Either this is a deliberate trolling for the lulz, or I'm going to have to start questioning your level of self-awareness
A couple of examples, before I give this up as being wilfully ignorant:
Guy brings and Uzi to a knife-fight and wonders why he splattered someone over the sidewalk...
Guy pulls away from the lights in a Lamborghini Gallardo, and wonders why he's thrashed the pants off an AMC Pacer...
Is the comparison of the situation any clearer?
I have literally just started levelling a new KDF tac, and I would offer to run the episode when she hits the right rank, but, as my plan for her is to level her exclusively through Deep Space Encounters, I'm not going to break the plan just to get blown up to prove the theory
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Yup. I mean for better or worse Gaul was a very (at least was trying to be portrayed) as a very charismatic character, and actually was wanting to something quite noble in returning his people to their past glory (regardless of how we might feel.). These types of things an people tend to create quite zealous people, which even after their leaders die they endure an create more that fallow in kind.
Also I see the Tzenkethi genocidal crusade alot like the many crusades that were undertaken in the medieval period by both sides to etake the holy land. Alot of terrible things were done by all involved, and even though many might have known how terrible the things were, they still did them for the greater good.
Also, by the way, it's not even "massively" maneuverable for an escort with a turn rate of 17 considering most have a turn rate of 15-16, even the higher and lower-tiered ones.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions", except the Tzenkethi went to make a 8-lane highway.
Don't try with that 'moving the goalposts' projection/evasion. Don't try and divert by saying that it's [the ship] not massively manoeuvrable* (*compared to other escorts.) See, YOU'RE the one shifting the goalposts, to try and stop the definitions sticking, and accusing me of doing that, because you don't want to accept the point which was made. And yes, I will question your motives and level of self-awareness, in a conversation where you are claiming to 'not get' a concept which should be obvious to anyone with an IQ above room-temperature.
Let me lay it out SuperSimple:
The stuff you are using (be it ship and or equipment) IS TOO GOOD FOR THE LEVEL.
It doesn't matter if it's T5 or Mk X gear ("Because that's what you said, you never said what T5 ship or Mk X gear!") the fact is, it's TOO GOOD FOR THE LEVEL.
Is that clear and simple enough. If 'Yes', awesome, we've got to the point of understanding
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> Eldex never turned on us though, and its stated that, while he didn't join the Alliance, he isn't continuing Gaul's campaign of conquest.
My point is I'm getting sick and tired of all our major non-player faction enemies being either A: absolute xenophobes EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE GUY who results in no significant change in relations (Tal Shiar, non-TS Romulan Empire, True Way, Vaads, Voth, Iconians, and now Tzenkethi), or B: insufficiently sapient to negotiate with (Borg, bluegills, and likely the Hur'q).
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Also... Once more, more "supersimple", hopefully this time:
THAT'S.
THE.
ENTIRE.
ISSUE.
WITH.
THIS.
LEVEL!!
Nothing should be too good for this portion of the level, especially on a fragile escort!! All the ships and space stations around you are getting utterly annihilated with ease and the Hur'q are so hyped in the cutscene and character talks as an even bigger menace than the Iconians while they don't pose any threat to you in gameplay unless you make a rookie mistake or are so new to the game you don't know the basics of most encounters.
In fact, they're not even really a threat to any allied ship in real gameplay, either. In fact, it's kinda hard to get the 70-kill accolade of the mission because your allies can blow them up and the swarmers are such in tight formations that a lot more times often than not, blowing one up can blow up the entire formation. Heck, you get no talks from your Boffs to build up suspense and make it at least look like you're gonna die no matter your efforts. Heck, none of the ships of the main characters gets disabled.
Wanna know how I'd make the Hur'q better because I'm not just complaining without giving suggestions?
Well, how about these:
-Boffs talks showing you're taking more and more damage. Even if it's not impacted on your health or performance, just a flavor text. After all, in Star Trek, ships are usually very fine no matter what happens to them unless the Warp core is damaged, in that case they're already dead.
-A Battle of Caleb IV-like system (which by the way is MUCH harder of a fight than that) where once your ship reaches close to zero, a cutscene happens.
-a little cheat, but it can work: you ship gets a DoT debuff and visual that can't be dispelt where swarmers are seeing ramming it, and the goal is to kill as many swarmers as possible before you're disabled
-allow the allied ships to be disabled
-give the Hero ship coming to save you an epic cutscene full of hope... which is immediately followed by a cutscene of it getting curbstomped and disabled for the rest of the mission. What better way in Prime timeline Star Trek to show the enemy means business when it guts the freaking Enterprise in seconds?
-make Martok and Kurn like they think none of them is gonna make it. Right now, they're giving a few of this vibe, but I dunno, it's very tame and it feels more of a "Meh, we just need to adapt our tactics a tiny bit, nothing grim. Plus you're probably already doing that because you figured it out before us, sooo... yeah."
-have the Dominion fleet lose most of its ships in the process
-or have it arrive with some ships on fire to show even in the Gamma Quadrant, the Hur'q are putting a serious fight
-overall, make the fight feel more hopeless and when you win, it feels like a pyrrhic victory. I mean, sure DS9 gets more damaged than ever seen in the game and series (except in a few alternate timelines) and when it happens the first time, you're like "wow, are they actually doing this for real, this time? Are they gonna damage it so much to tickle the status quo for once?", but other characters treat it like a minor nuisance at best.
It's even made fun of it with the Kurland bit.
Heck, when Parr is in troubles and asks for asylum, who grants it first? DS9! The utterly trashed station that is falling apart and that may be finished off at any instant instead of the ship that carries the members of the Alliance she has been interacting with the most.
The battle just didn't feel like a good battle. Just as simple as that. Heck, even the accolades kinda support it. You can get one if you blow up 70 swarmers in the last part of the battle and it's surprisingly challenging to get it because your allies can easily steal your kills, and since blowing up one ship can result in the whole squadron going into flames, you can fail the challenge pretty early.
The fact that the torps count as Tzenkethi ships just means I can do the days Endeavour and the Accolade in one playthrough before even reaching Bajor.
Is the accolade you're meaning called Seeds of Success, or something like that? If so, I've gotten that each time... I found the episode harder with my L60 KDF science wizard, than I did with the KDF tac I'm levelling in Encounters (I only did the mission, because I wanted the vanity shield) The tac has Emitter-linked dual cannons, the sci has a build of disruptor cannons and turrets. The L60 really needs a better ship and better gear, where the tac has gear which cuts through the content... My L60 Fed tac, also cut through the content (the Tzenkethi ludicrously so) with a build of cannons (but got swamped by the Hur'q swarmers) IMO, the episode was coded to be easy enough that players won't mind repeating it to get the set, and so it's pretty easy to come equipped with better than the level needs...
Now for all that I absolutely hate about the episode, I absolutely love playing it, because the battles are a good bit of fun
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth