You could make all consoles where you can only mount 1 of them or give them diminishing returns like armor consoles. That would lower the dps spikes a bit.
Hm I suppose such a thing could have a noteworthy impact. Still with my 10 toons and their 110 upgraded consoles such massive changes in game-rules would be a big hit in the face.
It should also be noted that some console sets like the flag ship or 31c ship ones outperform a lot of consoles we currently have. Under the proposed limitations I could imagine that the favor of these sets would push the love for those ships greatly. Scimitars could be even more OP compared to other ships than they already are.
Same counts for lobi consoles as they are all universal and would see an increase in demand granting them a more considerable pay2win position as they have now.
At least at the moment the gear part of DPS is easy to comprehend and cheap to get. Just be in a fleet and play.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
You could make all consoles where you can only mount 1 of them or give them diminishing returns like armor consoles. That would lower the dps spikes a bit.
Not as much as you'd think. A lot of DPSers use Plasma doping, and the devs you pretty much have to make the plasma doping effect limited to one per-ship(not just the consoles).
In any case, this whole nerf idea seems to be based on the top DPS charts. Why would anyone even care about the numbers on a chart? Yes, it's possible with a really good build and the right circumstances in one particular STF to get big numbers. So? Has the person suggesting this nerf ever seen someone get 300K+ DPS? I'm betting no.
And then there's the glaringly obvious fact that increasing cooldown would lower everyone's DPS, leaving the top players just as far ahead of the bottom and middle-range DPS'ers as they are now, so nothing is actually accomplished.
and there in lies the rub. to be "elite" in the game you have to be in a fleet. not all of us want to be in a fleet many have had nothing but bad experience with fleets. you wont see 100kDPSers out there without fleet gear. and yet i will not say "nerf/ban fleet gear. it will just come down to when the game is no longer fun or entertaining, it's time to move on.
And? We also have 10k feedback pulses, subspace vortexes, gravity wells, pet damage and whatsoever. It's not doping, it's science. Peeps wanted it to be good, now it is.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
and there in lies the rub. to be "elite" in the game you have to be in a fleet. not all of us want to be in a fleet many have had nothing but bad experience with fleets. you wont see 100kDPSers out there without fleet gear. and yet i will not say "nerf/ban fleet gear. it will just come down to when the game is no longer fun or entertaining, it's time to move on.
I’m very sorry to hear so. You are correct for the most part. Currently tac and sci consoles are favored from fleet. Same counts for tac bridge officers not to mention performance boosts and various unlocks.
If you (or others) want to give the whole fleet thing another chance I can invite you to my community if you like. We do have a probationary period of 2-4 weeks which anybody who isn’t a troll passes automatically. After that all fleet stores are locked free for you forever no matter how much and what you choose to donate or if you are interested in socializing and team-ups or not.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Seriously. If you want to join the parade it's better to ask one of the float builders to help you build a float than it is close access to the street till you can finish building one yourself. Be a part of the community, not apart from it.
What does it matter anyway? Some peoples high dps.
Because ISA and CCA et. al taking less than 30 seconds is becoming the norm instead of the exception. Mind as well just give people free marks then.
This is where the discussion and the way the forums are gets out of hand. ISA taking that little time comes from coordinated teams. Not PUGs. In 99.999999% of the Pugs I've parsed in 2016, there's been ONE player topping 100k. And that is usually offset by another player being below 3k on the same parse. This makes for a 3 to 5 minute run. Not 30 seconds.
In CCA, I've been in a few 30 second runs this year. But they're also few and far between because Pugs are random. CCA takes less time than ISA, but it's still typically more than 30 seconds. It often times is about 45 to 55 seconds.
30 second CCA requires more than one high DPS player to happen. Under a minute CCA is becoming the norm. Sure. But the 30 second or less run is still not the norm just because of how Pugging makes the lineup random.
ISA though? 30 second runs are nowhere close to the norm.
This is where the forums are making this issue far more confusing than it really is.
Two maps. Two different kinds of builds. Two sets of parses that are NOT related. Your BFAW build that everyone still wants to nerf? Isn't going to affect CCA.
This is actually a pretty horrible fix. So to nerf the top 1% of players, you'll make a system wide change that impacts everyone?
Statistically, damage is on a curve where the smallest movement at the top end will have significantly higher impact on the lower end. Pushing a 300K DPS ship down to 100K would nearly destroy any ship with 30K DPS. The skills would be completely useless for those flying in a ship below T4.
Just imagine being captain of a T1 ship with B:FAW I. It's literally the only tac skill you have slotted and instead of hitting every 15-30 seconds, it's nearly a minute between use. That is game breaking.
I still want to see enemies using FBP and Kinetic FBP frequently.
That'll knock 30% off the top.
And almost none off anyone doing less then 20k.
I don't think that will do what you hope it will do. In fact, I think it might do the entirely opposite of what you hope it will do.
What, after all, is the objective you're trying to achieve? If it's what I think you are trying to achieve-leveling the playing field, it's not going to do that. what it will do, is spur sales of Temporal ships with their unique damage type due to Entropy powers, while punishing players that don't have thirty-to-ninety bucks to spend and massive hours of grinding already done (aka it won't even TOUcH the DPS leaguers beyond dictating a new "Won Tru Build".)
a better option, as I said, is to give NPC's Tactical Team 1, with the same cooldown and an If/then statement linked to EPTS and Aux2Sif as they exist with the relevant duty-officers equipped.
because that will do what you're thinking giving doffed FBP and Kinetic FBP will do-it will force actual challenge into the queues by denying megadamage BFAW and exotic builds.
maybe giving Hazards to mid-range subset NPC's like spheres in addition.
Reason being, it forces the Deeps to equip things that debuff before they flail with discoblast AOE powers.
the downside being it does force the devs to improve NPC and possibly Pet AI-a task they are deeply and publicly loathe to do.
but it truly doesn't require forcing "Nerfs" on people.
What I hope to achieve ?
Put some fear into the quest for DPS.
Put some fear back into ADV/Elite.
With all due respect, your Tactical Team enemies aren't going to do anything, when they're dead in 1-3 secs anyways.
With an if/or statement for Heals ? EPTE and S ?
For real ? That's cute.
They won't even have a chance to use or benefit from these abilities. By the time the first ticks of Hazards is coming online they'll be dead already.
At least with FBP/Kin FBP even if you smoke them in the 1-3 secs, at least they'll hit you HARD with some shield bypass damage for a pulse or 2.
You have people smoking ADV with all offensive consoles with not a care in the world towards defensive stats. Its no wonder the game is a joke for the mid to high end of the DPS scale.
Would there be a new meta towards Entropy/Phys ?
Probably, -> path of least resistance. They'll always be one.
But hey, it'll change the BFAW meta which some people so desperately hate.
Can't just take a beam build into ADV and coast anymore, unless you equip some hull resistance.
I find myself now agreeing with Patrick.... clearly the FBP idea came from Bizarro World.
Seriously... we have enemies in game that already do that..... It's probably the most universally hated thing out there.
Oh is it really ? I guess I don't fall into the "universally hated" crowd, because I actually like facing Mirror forces, since they can take you out if you're not paying attention.
But maybe you're right; Is that why Counterpoint is dead dead dead ? Reflect enemies ? TBR enemies ?
Because players like you like to coast, without a care in the world ? (Yet come to complain the game is too easy)
Are you from the bizarre world ?
You want a challenge, but when a Real challenge is put before you, that may kill you if you're not cautious, or paying attention, or adjust your build to account for, you get all defensive about it, and call it a "Universally hated" mechanic.
Fine, lets just add millions of hit points to NPCs, and give them some "Healz" and "EPTE/S" that way it can take you longer to kill them = Moar Challenge.
smh
Don't people realize giving npc's moar heals or resistances is laughable at this point ?
Won't help them, they'll last maybe a fraction of sec longer for top DPS players with all the power that is available.
Anyway, it seems like you people like to play on "Easy mode", but still want to complain about it not providing a challenge.
It'll also be a lot more Dev time to give enemy NPC's Tactical Team (with if/or statements linked to EPTE/S) then simply giving NPCs fbp and Kin fbp.
But I guess people don't like the thought of dying in a queue. So back to square one, moar DEEPS ! Without consequence.
do you remember the epic whining about how the voth use something similar to FBP? It still pops up from time to time.
The idea of giving NPCs FBP is fundamentally flawed simply because of how much combat would suck for newbies if they constantly faced ships that used it.
The devs actually have experimented with giving NPCs meaningful heals. A great example is how the Unimatrix probes use Haza on the Unimatrix. Yeah, DPSers don't really care, it's the people who are struggling that have a real problem.
I still want to see enemies using FBP and Kinetic FBP frequently.
That'll knock 30% off the top.
And almost none off anyone doing less then 20k.
You are clearly spending all your time on the forums and not in the game or you would know just how wrong that assumption is.
Under typical DPS builds, Engineering slots are still open and can be used for tanking. The best DPS tend to also be the best tanks because they are typically running +threat and tank builds as they also getting the most aggro. An extra 30% incoming DPS from mobs is just going to ramp up their own skills more while still being tanked.
Personally, I find the PVE side of the game to be perfectly fine and those that are complaining are not impacted by this in a negative way, but rather made because some players are doing better than them and that is simply not an acceptable justification for change.
What does it really matter if CE or ISA Standard is over in 30 seconds or 10 minute rather than 5 minutes? You get the same loot and same rewards either way. If you feel so insecure about being 30K DPS in a PUG with 200K DPSers, stop pugging, but that's really just a personal problem and not my problem.
edit: much of those "you" are collective to those complaining in general and not taylor specifically, just to clarify.
Pat the reason I suggest FBP/Kin FBP, is because it won't hurt the lower DPS players.
If someone is doing 20k and under, their not going to be punished "that much" being on the receiving end of their own DPS.
If someone is doing 75k+ DPS they will feel it, and they will feel it in a much more dramatic way then the lower end of the spectrum.
Remember when FBP was useless in PVE ? And why was that ?
Because the enemies didn't do enough damage for it to be beneficial, (until PRTG's got out of control with DR and everything that came after.)
What you're suggesting; TT, A2SIF, A2ID, Hazards, they're going to make those lower end DPS players a lot more frustrated, then if they had to shrug off a feeble FBP coming from their own low DPS output. Heck some of them have trouble with a single sphere, now imagine giving that sphere all these Defensive abilities. Imagine how much they'll hate it.
In the case of top DPS'ers, I really don't even think they'll notice. (That's if the enemies can stay alive long enough for NPCs to benefit from these defensive abilities).
Meanwhile if there was a danger of FBP, a DPS energy monster is going to be cowering in fear, worried about when the next cycle is going up on a mob or single enemy.
Some might call that "annoying", others would call it putting some fear/excitement back in stale easy queues.
Those heavy hitters will have no choice but to pack some defense into their builds. And in doing so will scalp some of their power off the top.
It will be the "players" that will need a copy of A2ID/A2SIF/PolHull/APDelta.
Honestly, I don't care, but for my particular case, I still find Elites a challenge (depending). But ADV ? I seriously have nothing to fear, its all offense all the time, 100%.
@KJ, the highest DPS parsed is from a threat FBP Annorax using beams.
So you're right.
Except I don't think they'll be that many free Engi slots to just rejig at will and that won't affect their final DPS scores.
I think it'll cut into their builds (at least partially). Which is what I'd like... I'd like people to start shelving the multiple Embassy consoles.. the multiple Spire Tac consoles... to stop stacking PrtG's like its going out of style with no consequences. I'd like to see a neutronium be mandatory for ADV runs (at the very least).
If someone wants to roll a glass cannon, that's cool, but they should not obliterate everything on screen before any of them can cause you real damage.
The thing about a glass cannon, is that's its glass...you get hit you die, this is not the case in STO.
STO Glass Cannon = The Obliterator of Life.
Its a tank/healer and offensive specialist all in one, You're a tank because everything is dead before you take a real beating, you're a healer because everything is dead before you need a heal..
What I'm getting at is I have a bare minimum for defense concerning boff abilities;
My standard is to always have; PolHull1/Haz2
And this is all I ever need to survive, and run wild in Advanced PVE. Nothing else is required. Even my skill tree, doesn't have any defensive abilities for Hull and Shields...Because I don't need them..so why bother wasting points in them ?
And that's not enough of a challenge imo.
If you can't die, where is the fear ? Where is the challenge ?
I just don't see the game being anymore fun, or rewarding if all we do is give enemies TT to recycle shield facings and some abilities that grant resistance to hull.
At that point we may as well just give them another million or so HP, it'll be effectively the same thing. And a lot less dev time to code mobs to react in this manner.
But if we do either (+HP or give abilities), we're exactly where we are now, it'll just take "a little/or a lot" longer to complete queues depending on the team you're running with.
I don't know, but parading around ADV without a care in the world, practically invincible, really doesn't sit well with me.
then move up to Elites. The big issue here is that players that should clearly be in the higher level runs are running the lower levels. This is an issue with rewards. We get all we really need in Adv so there is no reason to go to Elites. If they gave Elites something to make them worthwhile, 2K refined Dil, or a random drop to be traded in for a full Rep set piece, etc. It would lure players that can run Elites into those runs and the Adv and Stds wouldn't be overrun. This a lot easier to do than trying to balance players and skills.
The devs actually have experimented with giving NPCs meaningful heals. A great example is how the Unimatrix probes use Haza on the Unimatrix. Yeah, DPSers don't really care, it's the people who are struggling that have a real problem.
DPS'ers don't really care about ANYTHING except that next tenth of a second. hazards is more of a debuff-cleanse anyway. The stuff I listed tends to work by prevention, not cleansing existing damage.
(if the devs experimented with ANY of it, they did so on the offline server.)
Actually.... the HP gain that the Unimatrixes get is ridiculous compared to what players get.
And honestly, the only thing giving enemies the ability to shield tank would do is to make penetration more important.... and giving them the ability to hull tank.... well that makes fighting them a nightmare in general. In short: giving a Borg cube EPtS, Aux2SIF, and TT would pretty much guarantee that scrubs would never kill them. Yeah it'd drastically reduce the amount of damage DPSers would do... so? It'd do so by giving them the ability to out-tank the DPS of people that don't do mega DPS.
you say that and say that, but yanno what? it's Entropy effects that have been getting me in Ker'Rat-because Tactical Team plus EPTS works.
Catch me up real quick. The OP is discussing CCA which ends too fast for the OP's taste, and the DPS numbers from CCA are massively high.
Your fix for this is to give NPCs Tactical Team and EPTS.
Buuuuuut ... CCA is dominated by entropy effects, science powers, kinetic and exotic damage. Which as you point out is what kills you fast in Ker'Rat.
So making the changes you suggest will not adequately address the OP's issue of CCA players spitting out 300k DPS.
Also the peeps who do mega DPS in CCA usually use specialized build that are designed to exploit the weaknesses of the CE. Namely... it has no shields and no ability to avoid eating every bit of kinetic and physical damage thrown at it.
Pat the reason I suggest FBP/Kin FBP, is because it won't hurt the lower DPS players.
If someone is doing 20k and under, their not going to be punished "that much" being on the receiving end of their own DPS.
If someone is doing 75k+ DPS they will feel it, and they will feel it in a much more dramatic way then the lower end of the spectrum.
Remember when FBP was useless in PVE ? And why was that ?
Because the enemies didn't do enough damage for it to be beneficial, (until PRTG's got out of control with DR and everything that came after.)
What you're suggesting; TT, A2SIF, A2ID, Hazards, they're going to make those lower end DPS players a lot more frustrated, then if they had to shrug off a feeble FBP coming from their own low DPS output. Heck some of them have trouble with a single sphere, now imagine giving that sphere all these Defensive abilities. Imagine how much they'll hate it.
In the case of top DPS'ers, I really don't even think they'll notice. (That's if the enemies can stay alive long enough for NPCs to benefit from these defensive abilities).
Meanwhile if there was a danger of FBP, a DPS energy monster is going to be cowering in fear, worried about when the next cycle is going up on a mob or single enemy.
Some might call that "annoying", others would call it putting some fear/excitement back in stale easy queues.
Those heavy hitters will have no choice but to pack some defense into their builds. And in doing so will scalp some of their power off the top.
It will be the "players" that will need a copy of A2ID/A2SIF/PolHull/APDelta.
Honestly, I don't care, but for my particular case, I still find Elites a challenge (depending). But ADV ? I seriously have nothing to fear, its all offense all the time, 100%.
@KJ, the highest DPS parsed is from a threat FBP Annorax using beams.
So you're right.
Except I don't think they'll be that many free Engi slots to just rejig at will and that won't affect their final DPS scores.
I think it'll cut into their builds (at least partially). Which is what I'd like... I'd like people to start shelving the multiple Embassy consoles.. the multiple Spire Tac consoles... to stop stacking PrtG's like its going out of style with no consequences. I'd like to see a neutronium be mandatory for ADV runs (at the very least).
If someone wants to roll a glass cannon, that's cool, but they should not obliterate everything on screen before any of them can cause you real damage.
The thing about a glass cannon, is that's its glass...you get hit you die, this is not the case in STO.
STO Glass Cannon = The Obliterator of Life.
Its a tank/healer and offensive specialist all in one, You're a tank because everything is dead before you take a real beating, you're a healer because everything is dead before you need a heal..
What I'm getting at is I have a bare minimum for defense concerning boff abilities;
My standard is to always have; PolHull1/Haz2
And this is all I ever need to survive, and run wild in Advanced PVE. Nothing else is required. Even my skill tree, doesn't have any defensive abilities for Hull and Shields...Because I don't need them..so why bother wasting points in them ?
And that's not enough of a challenge imo.
If you can't die, where is the fear ? Where is the challenge ?
I just don't see the game being anymore fun, or rewarding if all we do is give enemies TT to recycle shield facings and some abilities that grant resistance to hull.
At that point we may as well just give them another million or so HP, it'll be effectively the same thing. And a lot less dev time to code mobs to react in this manner.
But if we do either (+HP or give abilities), we're exactly where we are now, it'll just take "a little/or a lot" longer to complete queues depending on the team you're running with.
I don't know, but parading around ADV without a care in the world, practically invincible, really doesn't sit well with me.
Both yours and @patrickngo's suggestions would be great in Elite. I personally think Advanced and Normal should remain untouched for now.
I PUG 99% of my advanced runs. I've seen some really bad things out there... Making advanced more difficult based on what the top-end could do is a sure-fire way to kill the queues.
I do think that despite the changes you recommend, people would still not slot defensive consoles. To illustrate my point, the best tanks in the game do not use damage resistance consoles like Neutronium at all, even in Hive Elite runs. The diminishing returns on resistances makes it better to rely on skills and traits for resistances rather than waste valuable console space. My tank builds usually go up to 70-80% resist in combat for example, without using resistance consoles.
FYI the new lockbox is going to bring a new level of powercreep as well. That new GDF trait is going to make CCAs a lot worse than it is now. Depending on the final numbers on the weapons, we might be looking at a new weapon meta as well.
you say that and say that, but yanno what? it's Entropy effects that have been getting me in Ker'Rat-because Tactical Team plus EPTS works.
Catch me up real quick. The OP is discussing CCA which ends too fast for the OP's taste, and the DPS numbers from CCA are massively high.
Your fix for this is to give NPCs Tactical Team and EPTS.
Buuuuuut ... CCA is dominated by entropy effects, science powers, kinetic and exotic damage. Which as you point out is what kills you fast in Ker'Rat.
So making the changes you suggest will not adequately address the OP's issue of CCA players spitting out 300k DPS.
CCA is basically the target-practice for target practice. at some point you just realize there's NOTHING that can be done, because it's already gone so far past too far that too far isn't even in the rear-view mirror.
(FBP/KFBP isn't going to help that, btw.)
IOW "Advanced" in CCA should probably be "Normal" and the replacement should probably have some serious adjustments to kinetic resists and resistance to Entropy and exotic damage. (Along with more aggressive and better laid out tholian support units)
As I suggested in the other CCA thread (which got buried away), I think CC should now just be a 5-man STF. The Entity only has 5.1M HP, compared to the 7 or so million HP ISA's final tac cube has (excluding its shields). That in itself should help a bit (though not much). Also, if it were to be changed, I'd focus on buffing the Tholians, making them hit harder and a requirement for completion (clear all Tholians). For the CC itself, I'd make it immune to warpcore breaches.
Comments
Hm I suppose such a thing could have a noteworthy impact. Still with my 10 toons and their 110 upgraded consoles such massive changes in game-rules would be a big hit in the face.
It should also be noted that some console sets like the flag ship or 31c ship ones outperform a lot of consoles we currently have. Under the proposed limitations I could imagine that the favor of these sets would push the love for those ships greatly. Scimitars could be even more OP compared to other ships than they already are.
Same counts for lobi consoles as they are all universal and would see an increase in demand granting them a more considerable pay2win position as they have now.
At least at the moment the gear part of DPS is easy to comprehend and cheap to get. Just be in a fleet and play.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
My character Tsin'xing
In any case, this whole nerf idea seems to be based on the top DPS charts. Why would anyone even care about the numbers on a chart? Yes, it's possible with a really good build and the right circumstances in one particular STF to get big numbers. So? Has the person suggesting this nerf ever seen someone get 300K+ DPS? I'm betting no.
And then there's the glaringly obvious fact that increasing cooldown would lower everyone's DPS, leaving the top players just as far ahead of the bottom and middle-range DPS'ers as they are now, so nothing is actually accomplished.
My character Tsin'xing
and there in lies the rub. to be "elite" in the game you have to be in a fleet. not all of us want to be in a fleet many have had nothing but bad experience with fleets. you wont see 100kDPSers out there without fleet gear. and yet i will not say "nerf/ban fleet gear. it will just come down to when the game is no longer fun or entertaining, it's time to move on.
And? We also have 10k feedback pulses, subspace vortexes, gravity wells, pet damage and whatsoever. It's not doping, it's science. Peeps wanted it to be good, now it is.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I’m very sorry to hear so. You are correct for the most part. Currently tac and sci consoles are favored from fleet. Same counts for tac bridge officers not to mention performance boosts and various unlocks.
If you (or others) want to give the whole fleet thing another chance I can invite you to my community if you like. We do have a probationary period of 2-4 weeks which anybody who isn’t a troll passes automatically. After that all fleet stores are locked free for you forever no matter how much and what you choose to donate or if you are interested in socializing and team-ups or not.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
That's because people are stacking Embassy consoles 2-3-4 & 5 at a time.
Some nerf that's was to Plasma Doping. LOL
Probably should've made Embassy's 1 per ship.
The whole plasma doping nerf didn't actually stop players from stacking them.
This is where the discussion and the way the forums are gets out of hand. ISA taking that little time comes from coordinated teams. Not PUGs. In 99.999999% of the Pugs I've parsed in 2016, there's been ONE player topping 100k. And that is usually offset by another player being below 3k on the same parse. This makes for a 3 to 5 minute run. Not 30 seconds.
In CCA, I've been in a few 30 second runs this year. But they're also few and far between because Pugs are random. CCA takes less time than ISA, but it's still typically more than 30 seconds. It often times is about 45 to 55 seconds.
30 second CCA requires more than one high DPS player to happen. Under a minute CCA is becoming the norm. Sure. But the 30 second or less run is still not the norm just because of how Pugging makes the lineup random.
ISA though? 30 second runs are nowhere close to the norm.
This is where the forums are making this issue far more confusing than it really is.
Two maps. Two different kinds of builds. Two sets of parses that are NOT related. Your BFAW build that everyone still wants to nerf? Isn't going to affect CCA.
Statistically, damage is on a curve where the smallest movement at the top end will have significantly higher impact on the lower end. Pushing a 300K DPS ship down to 100K would nearly destroy any ship with 30K DPS. The skills would be completely useless for those flying in a ship below T4.
Just imagine being captain of a T1 ship with B:FAW I. It's literally the only tac skill you have slotted and instead of hitting every 15-30 seconds, it's nearly a minute between use. That is game breaking.
That'll knock 30% off the top.
And almost none off anyone doing less then 20k.
Seriously... we have enemies in game that already do that..... It's probably the most universally hated thing out there.
My character Tsin'xing
What I hope to achieve ?
Put some fear into the quest for DPS.
Put some fear back into ADV/Elite.
With all due respect, your Tactical Team enemies aren't going to do anything, when they're dead in 1-3 secs anyways.
With an if/or statement for Heals ? EPTE and S ?
For real ? That's cute.
They won't even have a chance to use or benefit from these abilities. By the time the first ticks of Hazards is coming online they'll be dead already.
At least with FBP/Kin FBP even if you smoke them in the 1-3 secs, at least they'll hit you HARD with some shield bypass damage for a pulse or 2.
You have people smoking ADV with all offensive consoles with not a care in the world towards defensive stats. Its no wonder the game is a joke for the mid to high end of the DPS scale.
Would there be a new meta towards Entropy/Phys ?
Probably, -> path of least resistance. They'll always be one.
But hey, it'll change the BFAW meta which some people so desperately hate.
Can't just take a beam build into ADV and coast anymore, unless you equip some hull resistance.
Oh is it really ? I guess I don't fall into the "universally hated" crowd, because I actually like facing Mirror forces, since they can take you out if you're not paying attention.
But maybe you're right; Is that why Counterpoint is dead dead dead ? Reflect enemies ? TBR enemies ?
Because players like you like to coast, without a care in the world ? (Yet come to complain the game is too easy)
Are you from the bizarre world ?
You want a challenge, but when a Real challenge is put before you, that may kill you if you're not cautious, or paying attention, or adjust your build to account for, you get all defensive about it, and call it a "Universally hated" mechanic.
Fine, lets just add millions of hit points to NPCs, and give them some "Healz" and "EPTE/S" that way it can take you longer to kill them = Moar Challenge.
smh
Don't people realize giving npc's moar heals or resistances is laughable at this point ?
Won't help them, they'll last maybe a fraction of sec longer for top DPS players with all the power that is available.
Anyway, it seems like you people like to play on "Easy mode", but still want to complain about it not providing a challenge.
It'll also be a lot more Dev time to give enemy NPC's Tactical Team (with if/or statements linked to EPTE/S) then simply giving NPCs fbp and Kin fbp.
But I guess people don't like the thought of dying in a queue. So back to square one, moar DEEPS ! Without consequence.
The idea of giving NPCs FBP is fundamentally flawed simply because of how much combat would suck for newbies if they constantly faced ships that used it.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
Catch me up real quick. The OP is discussing CCA which ends too fast for the OP's taste, and the DPS numbers from CCA are massively high.
Your fix for this is to give NPCs Tactical Team and EPTS.
Buuuuuut ... CCA is dominated by entropy effects, science powers, kinetic and exotic damage. Which as you point out is what kills you fast in Ker'Rat.
So making the changes you suggest will not adequately address the OP's issue of CCA players spitting out 300k DPS.
You are clearly spending all your time on the forums and not in the game or you would know just how wrong that assumption is.
Under typical DPS builds, Engineering slots are still open and can be used for tanking. The best DPS tend to also be the best tanks because they are typically running +threat and tank builds as they also getting the most aggro. An extra 30% incoming DPS from mobs is just going to ramp up their own skills more while still being tanked.
Personally, I find the PVE side of the game to be perfectly fine and those that are complaining are not impacted by this in a negative way, but rather made because some players are doing better than them and that is simply not an acceptable justification for change.
What does it really matter if CE or ISA Standard is over in 30 seconds or 10 minute rather than 5 minutes? You get the same loot and same rewards either way. If you feel so insecure about being 30K DPS in a PUG with 200K DPSers, stop pugging, but that's really just a personal problem and not my problem.
edit: much of those "you" are collective to those complaining in general and not taylor specifically, just to clarify.
If someone is doing 20k and under, their not going to be punished "that much" being on the receiving end of their own DPS.
If someone is doing 75k+ DPS they will feel it, and they will feel it in a much more dramatic way then the lower end of the spectrum.
Remember when FBP was useless in PVE ? And why was that ?
Because the enemies didn't do enough damage for it to be beneficial, (until PRTG's got out of control with DR and everything that came after.)
What you're suggesting; TT, A2SIF, A2ID, Hazards, they're going to make those lower end DPS players a lot more frustrated, then if they had to shrug off a feeble FBP coming from their own low DPS output. Heck some of them have trouble with a single sphere, now imagine giving that sphere all these Defensive abilities. Imagine how much they'll hate it.
In the case of top DPS'ers, I really don't even think they'll notice. (That's if the enemies can stay alive long enough for NPCs to benefit from these defensive abilities).
Meanwhile if there was a danger of FBP, a DPS energy monster is going to be cowering in fear, worried about when the next cycle is going up on a mob or single enemy.
Some might call that "annoying", others would call it putting some fear/excitement back in stale easy queues.
Those heavy hitters will have no choice but to pack some defense into their builds. And in doing so will scalp some of their power off the top.
It will be the "players" that will need a copy of A2ID/A2SIF/PolHull/APDelta.
Honestly, I don't care, but for my particular case, I still find Elites a challenge (depending). But ADV ? I seriously have nothing to fear, its all offense all the time, 100%.
@KJ, the highest DPS parsed is from a threat FBP Annorax using beams.
So you're right.
Except I don't think they'll be that many free Engi slots to just rejig at will and that won't affect their final DPS scores.
I think it'll cut into their builds (at least partially). Which is what I'd like... I'd like people to start shelving the multiple Embassy consoles.. the multiple Spire Tac consoles... to stop stacking PrtG's like its going out of style with no consequences. I'd like to see a neutronium be mandatory for ADV runs (at the very least).
If someone wants to roll a glass cannon, that's cool, but they should not obliterate everything on screen before any of them can cause you real damage.
The thing about a glass cannon, is that's its glass...you get hit you die, this is not the case in STO.
STO Glass Cannon = The Obliterator of Life.
Its a tank/healer and offensive specialist all in one, You're a tank because everything is dead before you take a real beating, you're a healer because everything is dead before you need a heal..
What I'm getting at is I have a bare minimum for defense concerning boff abilities;
My standard is to always have; PolHull1/Haz2
And this is all I ever need to survive, and run wild in Advanced PVE. Nothing else is required. Even my skill tree, doesn't have any defensive abilities for Hull and Shields...Because I don't need them..so why bother wasting points in them ?
And that's not enough of a challenge imo.
If you can't die, where is the fear ? Where is the challenge ?
I just don't see the game being anymore fun, or rewarding if all we do is give enemies TT to recycle shield facings and some abilities that grant resistance to hull.
At that point we may as well just give them another million or so HP, it'll be effectively the same thing. And a lot less dev time to code mobs to react in this manner.
But if we do either (+HP or give abilities), we're exactly where we are now, it'll just take "a little/or a lot" longer to complete queues depending on the team you're running with.
I don't know, but parading around ADV without a care in the world, practically invincible, really doesn't sit well with me.
And honestly, the only thing giving enemies the ability to shield tank would do is to make penetration more important.... and giving them the ability to hull tank.... well that makes fighting them a nightmare in general. In short: giving a Borg cube EPtS, Aux2SIF, and TT would pretty much guarantee that scrubs would never kill them. Yeah it'd drastically reduce the amount of damage DPSers would do... so? It'd do so by giving them the ability to out-tank the DPS of people that don't do mega DPS. Also the peeps who do mega DPS in CCA usually use specialized build that are designed to exploit the weaknesses of the CE. Namely... it has no shields and no ability to avoid eating every bit of kinetic and physical damage thrown at it.
My character Tsin'xing
Both yours and @patrickngo's suggestions would be great in Elite. I personally think Advanced and Normal should remain untouched for now.
I PUG 99% of my advanced runs. I've seen some really bad things out there... Making advanced more difficult based on what the top-end could do is a sure-fire way to kill the queues.
I do think that despite the changes you recommend, people would still not slot defensive consoles. To illustrate my point, the best tanks in the game do not use damage resistance consoles like Neutronium at all, even in Hive Elite runs. The diminishing returns on resistances makes it better to rely on skills and traits for resistances rather than waste valuable console space. My tank builds usually go up to 70-80% resist in combat for example, without using resistance consoles.
FYI the new lockbox is going to bring a new level of powercreep as well. That new GDF trait is going to make CCAs a lot worse than it is now. Depending on the final numbers on the weapons, we might be looking at a new weapon meta as well.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
As I suggested in the other CCA thread (which got buried away), I think CC should now just be a 5-man STF. The Entity only has 5.1M HP, compared to the 7 or so million HP ISA's final tac cube has (excluding its shields). That in itself should help a bit (though not much). Also, if it were to be changed, I'd focus on buffing the Tholians, making them hit harder and a requirement for completion (clear all Tholians). For the CC itself, I'd make it immune to warpcore breaches.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!