It was going to happen sooner or later. Better sooner. CBS/Paramount seems to take pride in damaging it's customer relations. Least the Star Wars fan community is doing well, can't say the same for Trek.
I'm guessing you haven't looked at their guidelines for fan work...
Things like 'information' haven't really stopped his speculation about the emotions and nonprofit-motivations of companies before.
Doesn't seem to make you stop either, after skimming by all the deleted posts you left behind.
Yeah, I really wonder what the context of all that could've possibly been...
You're attributing malice to a company defending as it must it's own intellectual property, because they've tanked a project you personally wanted. It is senseless to think that a company wants to alienate its own customer base. The people who feel most alienated here were not customers, because they were pursuing a non-CBS copy of a CBS product. CBS is rightfully bringing those people back into the fold of their product with these rules.
I really wouldn't care to know.
My malice? Lol, now look who is speculating! I think you should stop while your ahead.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
If I decided to come up with Orange is the New Askaban, Lionsgate/Netflix and Warner Brothers/JK Rowling et al. would be racing to see which could club my special snowflake project to death first. And it wouldn't be because they were bitter or wanted to damage their own fanbases.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I wrote the first one. No idea where you conjured up the last two. But it hardly insinuates my "Malice" towards them. Bit of exaggeration and dramatization.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Attributing pride in a nonprofit motive for a company is willfully ignorant of how companies as large as that operate. People maybe, not companies.
There's been a lot of that in this argument (I won't dignify it with the term "debate"). Words like "pride" and "bitterness" and "anger" have been thrown around in re: CBS and Paramount; in fact, the closest thing to an emotion any corporation is capable of "feeling" (and even that term is only a loose approximation) is greed. For-profit corporations exist to make money, and to enhance value for their stockholders, and that's the beginning and end of it. If a given move is profitable, it will be taken. If it is not, it will not, unless the corporation is so directed by an individual, emotional human being.
And a corporation the size of CBS will almost never do anything because one person wants it to, any more than the US Government will change its policies because of the wishes of the junior senator from Nebraska. (Unless you're playing the original version of Twilight: 2000, of course.)
Attributing pride in a nonprofit motive for a company is willfully ignorant of how companies as large as that operate. People maybe, not companies.
You can add naïve to your list. There is low probability that you genuinely confused two different names because of similar sigs. You manually edited those quotes.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Attributing pride in a nonprofit motive for a company is willfully ignorant of how companies as large as that operate. People maybe, not companies.
You can add naïve to your list. There is low probability that you genuinely confused two different names because of similar sigs. You manually edited those quotes.
I think the thread's seen you're pretty expert at attributing malice where there is none.
I'm all for protecting intellectual properties, people should be able to make money on their creation and hard work, and the company that currently owns that IP should legally have all the benefits.
But Star Trek lived and lived again based on the love of the fans. Do you realize that without the massive fan support for the second and third seasons there wouldn't have been enough Star Trek episodes to live on in Syndication for decades?
Fan conventions were Star Trek fan's invention.
So clipping the wings of the people who love Star Trek like this is just cold blooded. They're in for the money, not for the love at a time when the love is vital.
I think it's particularly vicious to say that official Star Trek actors can't participate in a fan work. Why? Because it might lend an air of legitimacy? They're imposing on the rights of actors in Star Trek to be fans of Star Trek and participate in that fandom away from the job.
Corporate Inhumanity.
It's within their legal rights, but that doesn't mean that it's right. Not for a franchise that has been carried on the backs of the fans.
The sad thing is that such stringent and mean spirited rules will only sour that fan support and damage their future profits. They weren't losing money as these productions exist to fill the void of Star Trek left since Enterprise went off the air for people who just didn't feel Abram's version was what they were looking for, and aren't competing with anything.
This is greed making them behave stupidly and rashly.
In an age of Social Media, nothing is gained by being tyrannical with the fanbase.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Attributing pride in a nonprofit motive for a company is willfully ignorant of how companies as large as that operate. People maybe, not companies.
You can add naïve to your list. There is low probability that you genuinely confused two different names because of similar sigs. You manually edited those quotes.
I'd err on the side of caution on this one. I've seen some strange formatting on the STO forums before where people have attributed posts to me that I never made.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I'm all for protecting intellectual properties, people should be able to make money on their creation and hard work, and the company that currently owns that IP should legally have all the benefits.
But Star Trek lived and lived again based on the love of the fans. Do you realize that without the massive fan support for the second and third seasons there wouldn't have been enough Star Trek episodes to live on in Syndication for decades?
Fan conventions were Star Trek fan's invention.
So clipping the wings of the people who love Star Trek like this is just cold blooded. They're in for the money, not for the love at a time when the love is vital.
I think it's particularly vicious to say that official Star Trek actors can't participate in a fan work. Why? Because it might lend an air of legitimacy? They're imposing on the rights of actors in Star Trek to be fans of Star Trek and participate in that fandom away from the job.
Corporate Inhumanity.
It's within their legal rights, but that doesn't mean that it's right. Not for a franchise that has been carried on the backs of the fans.
The sad thing is that such stringent and mean spirited rules will only sour that fan support and damage their future profits. They weren't losing money as these productions exist to fill the void of Star Trek left since Enterprise went off the air for people who just didn't feel Abram's version was what they were looking for, and aren't competing with anything.
This is greed making them behave stupidly and rashly.
In an age of Social Media, nothing is gained by being tyrannical with the fanbase.
The United States is a country where the highest court argues about whether actual innocence is sufficient to prevent someone from being executed. What is 'right' isn't a thing that exists. CBS/Paramount both can and did defend their property the way they have.
I would like to see the past actor prevention clause argued, because that really strikes me as a noncompete contract term added to an earlier unagreed to contract by the actor (or their agents). Probably like a lot of internet terms, it's unenforceable. The studio most certainly could refuse to work with that actor later, as well as add it to their current contract negotiations. Imposing it on someone who has already done the work, outside of a new contract seems perilous.
but of course, since there's no way to tell the difference between an official product or a counterfeit/homemade one without an up-close and personal inspection...good luck trying to enforce that one, CBS
That's what paper trails are for. If you're buying something officially licensed, there's a record of that purchase somewhere. If you're doing a fan-film, you're probably keeping an accounting book somewhere. If your books don't have a record of purchasing officially licensed products, then they might be within their right to issue a C&D order.
There's also the potential "I checked, but it was sold out everywhere I looked, so it didn't seem to be commercially available anymore" argument. There's really no way anyone could prove that is a lie ...
Yeah, this is why I think it's more about not buying unlicensed merch, than about limiting options. IF you buy something it needs to be licensed. If you make it yourself, don't sell it. But that's rephrasing it in my words, and may not be the way it was actually intended to be read.
But this goes back to rule #1 of fan films: NO ONE makes a profit.
yeah, misquotes happen with vanilla all the time; i wouldn't be too quick to attribute intent to what is most likely shoddy forum coding
If it was any other person I'd agree.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Sometimes, at night, I go into my cupboard and lick a fish. It's nice to get away from it all sometimes, but other times it just makes me sad.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Edit: Those look like guidelines for submitting a film for competitions. I've seen far longer ones of higher quality. And none have been scared by Disney with cease and desist or legal entanglements...
So it really is going over your head that you're extoling the virtues of a larger fanbase that operates under a harsher set restrictions and THRIVES under them. Because man, it'd be AWFUL if the Star Trek community grew to the size and social prominence of Star Wars fans.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Sometimes, at night, I go into my cupboard and lick a fish. It's nice to get away from it all sometimes, but other times it just makes me sad.
is that what you youngins are calling it these days?
Oh no, don't you try pin it on me. That was a direct quote from @iconians, it had his name on it and everything.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Sadly Cawley announced he's ceased operations of Star Trek New Voyages.
Well the last two Star Trek movies were garbage. I have NO plans wasting my money on the new one this summer or the new series. As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with Paramount and Star Trek.
Sadly Cawley announced he's ceased operations of Star Trek New Voyages.
Well the last two Star Trek movies were garbage. I have NO plans wasting my money on the new one this summer or the new series. As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with Paramount and Star Trek.
Have fun! Don't let the door hit you in the rear on your way out.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Well the last two Star Trek movies were garbage. I have NO plans wasting my money on the new one this summer or the new series. As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with Paramount and Star Trek.
Excellent. Then they have zero motivation to please you. The Closed-For-Business-Verse: hard at work torpedoing itself.
Sadly Cawley announced he's ceased operations of Star Trek New Voyages.
Well the last two Star Trek movies were garbage. I have NO plans wasting my money on the new one this summer or the new series. As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with Paramount and Star Trek.
Please burn all of your Trek memorabilia, and delete your STO account. Clean slate, you know...
Sadly Cawley announced he's ceased operations of Star Trek New Voyages.
Well the last two Star Trek movies were garbage. I have NO plans wasting my money on the new one this summer or the new series. As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with Paramount and Star Trek.
Yeah, I hated Star Trek: Insurrection and Star Trek: Nemesis <-- (A poor rip off of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan in many scenes), too.
Oh, wait...
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Edit: Those look like guidelines for submitting a film for competitions. I've seen far longer ones of higher quality. And none have been scared by Disney with cease and desist or legal entanglements...
So it really is going over your head that you're extoling the virtues of a larger fanbase that operates under a harsher set restrictions and THRIVES under them. Because man, it'd be AWFUL if the Star Trek community grew to the size and social prominence of Star Wars fans.
All I see so far is misplaced wishful thinking on your part that Disney is enforcing it's competition guidelines on existing and future fan productions, contrary to popular belief. And spreading misinformation that it is seemingly worse than what CBS has currently done and plans to. And I won't be dragged into Wars vs Trek episode with you.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Comments
I really wouldn't care to know.
My malice? Lol, now look who is speculating! I think you should stop while your ahead.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
If I decided to come up with Orange is the New Askaban, Lionsgate/Netflix and Warner Brothers/JK Rowling et al. would be racing to see which could club my special snowflake project to death first. And it wouldn't be because they were bitter or wanted to damage their own fanbases.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
You are correct. Let's hear it for bad pattern recognition based on sigs.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
And a corporation the size of CBS will almost never do anything because one person wants it to, any more than the US Government will change its policies because of the wishes of the junior senator from Nebraska. (Unless you're playing the original version of Twilight: 2000, of course.)
You can add naïve to your list. There is low probability that you genuinely confused two different names because of similar sigs. You manually edited those quotes.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I think the thread's seen you're pretty expert at attributing malice where there is none.
Pretty dickish.
I'm all for protecting intellectual properties, people should be able to make money on their creation and hard work, and the company that currently owns that IP should legally have all the benefits.
But Star Trek lived and lived again based on the love of the fans. Do you realize that without the massive fan support for the second and third seasons there wouldn't have been enough Star Trek episodes to live on in Syndication for decades?
Fan conventions were Star Trek fan's invention.
So clipping the wings of the people who love Star Trek like this is just cold blooded. They're in for the money, not for the love at a time when the love is vital.
I think it's particularly vicious to say that official Star Trek actors can't participate in a fan work. Why? Because it might lend an air of legitimacy? They're imposing on the rights of actors in Star Trek to be fans of Star Trek and participate in that fandom away from the job.
Corporate Inhumanity.
It's within their legal rights, but that doesn't mean that it's right. Not for a franchise that has been carried on the backs of the fans.
The sad thing is that such stringent and mean spirited rules will only sour that fan support and damage their future profits. They weren't losing money as these productions exist to fill the void of Star Trek left since Enterprise went off the air for people who just didn't feel Abram's version was what they were looking for, and aren't competing with anything.
This is greed making them behave stupidly and rashly.
In an age of Social Media, nothing is gained by being tyrannical with the fanbase.
I'd err on the side of caution on this one. I've seen some strange formatting on the STO forums before where people have attributed posts to me that I never made.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The United States is a country where the highest court argues about whether actual innocence is sufficient to prevent someone from being executed. What is 'right' isn't a thing that exists. CBS/Paramount both can and did defend their property the way they have.
I would like to see the past actor prevention clause argued, because that really strikes me as a noncompete contract term added to an earlier unagreed to contract by the actor (or their agents). Probably like a lot of internet terms, it's unenforceable. The studio most certainly could refuse to work with that actor later, as well as add it to their current contract negotiations. Imposing it on someone who has already done the work, outside of a new contract seems perilous.
But this goes back to rule #1 of fan films: NO ONE makes a profit.
My character Tsin'xing
If it was any other person I'd agree.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
So it really is going over your head that you're extoling the virtues of a larger fanbase that operates under a harsher set restrictions and THRIVES under them. Because man, it'd be AWFUL if the Star Trek community grew to the size and social prominence of Star Wars fans.
is that what you youngins are calling it these days?
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Are we still bitter about this?
Edit: I did correct the original quotes quickly after it was pointed out.
This is an important message for our times.
Oh no, don't you try pin it on me. That was a direct quote from @iconians, it had his name on it and everything.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Clearly, they edited the quote on purpose.
yeah...remember that bit i said above about shoddy forum code? that's another thing that happens frequently with nested posts
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Sadly Cawley announced he's ceased operations of Star Trek New Voyages.
Well the last two Star Trek movies were garbage. I have NO plans wasting my money on the new one this summer or the new series. As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with Paramount and Star Trek.
Have fun! Don't let the door hit you in the rear on your way out.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Excellent. Then they have zero motivation to please you. The Closed-For-Business-Verse: hard at work torpedoing itself.
Please burn all of your Trek memorabilia, and delete your STO account. Clean slate, you know...
Yeah, I hated Star Trek: Insurrection and Star Trek: Nemesis <-- (A poor rip off of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan in many scenes), too.
Oh, wait...
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
All I see so far is misplaced wishful thinking on your part that Disney is enforcing it's competition guidelines on existing and future fan productions, contrary to popular belief. And spreading misinformation that it is seemingly worse than what CBS has currently done and plans to. And I won't be dragged into Wars vs Trek episode with you.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Looking for a good time baby?
<snicker>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion