I refuse to engage with an advocate of violence for this petty purpose.
I encourage everyone to report all posts calling for violence against a person with the Flag button.
This is not the world any of us wants where this kind of speech is acceptable behavior.
Essentially, any unauthorized fan fic is at the creator's own risk... annoy the owner of the IP sufficiently, and you will get jumped on. (And I say this as someone who's churned out something like a third of a million words of STO fanfic... Paramount, CBS and Cryptic, of course, are welcome to the whole of the absolutely nothing I've been paid for it.)
My take on it is that the Axanar people have been taking flippin' enormous liberties with the IP and then daring the owners to get tough in defending it. So, guess what, they've got tough.
I'm inclined to suspect that they'd take a more forgiving view towards fan film makers who, y'know, don't take flippin' enormous liberties. (As others have noted, they've even sided with fan film makers in the past.) Since they've been, in effect, dared to set out Draconian rules, then Draconian rules is what they've set out.
(My own plans to lose twelve stone, get a sex change, and play Ronnie Grau in a home-made movie adaptation of "The Three-Handed Game" are now on hold, of course. Come to think of it, that should come as a relief to everyone.)
It is simply no longer acceptable language.
It is our collective responsibility to call it out.
Prevarication is not allowed as a defense.
And who the **** are you to tell me, or anyone, what is, or is not acceptable language?? Who the **** do you think you are?? Go win a Darwin Award...
Okay how about I do it instead?
Knock off the language, the threats, etc. It is against the forum policies and next time it won't be me just saying something..
As for this entire thread, I've deleted multiple posts, and edited a few. Make sure you're following the rules folks or more than just little "slaps on the wrists" will occur.
As in I'll go cry to Trendy
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
It's what I do. It's what I just did. It's what I'm about to do again. It's being undisputed emperor of an empire that cannot be disproved as the most powerful intergalactic empire in the entire universe; I always win, and everything I've won will definitely be won again... by me. It's my signature move, and thus, it's my signature. Problem, Sonic? Yeah, I mean you, Sonic, because you're being beat up, despite your being super. You can't even hit Shadow back, can you? Nope, he's too strong for you. Of course, I'm not Shadow, I'm the Super Emerald fueled fox that's pulling the strings; trust me, the fight would only be a few frames long if I were in it personally. Oh, and here's something for all you guys thinking you can win Last Post Wins 3.0; trust me, I'll be around a long while after the sun has already consumed the Earth while I sit out with the forum servers on Titan. Yes, I mean Titan... that comparatively little moon orbiting Saturn. It's a nice little place in a version of our solar system where the sun is a lot bigger. I mean, Mars will last longer than your precious Earth, but by then, it'll be one hot planet... and I figure Saturn's moon will be about the right temperate for a super-powered warlord. Oh, and trust me, I packed a lot of rings, and I mean a lot. Trillions, in fact, so I'll never run out of rings to power my super form. Besides, if I start to run out, I can just chaos control more rings into my reach. It's quite easy, really. You should try it. Granted, you'll never have the 7 Super Emeralds that I have in my possession, nor the Master Emerald that I've got hidden away somewhere... absorbed into my body thanks to Sonic logic, but whatever. I win. Again. I'm not kidding, either. Just check Last Post Wins, and if the last post isn't mine, it soon will be. Very, very soon. You can count on it. Seriously. By the way, if you're wondering, there's a really great Super Tails sprite sheet out there... somewhere... by some guy named shadow_91. These sprites are really great. Like, really good. Quality. Just like what I like to see in a sprite sheet. Also, credit to Joe T.E., his Sonic Battle style Super Sonic sprites have a great palette for a Super Sonic being beat up by Super Shadow, who's palette is from a Super Shadow sheet of unknown origin, but it turns out they were "borrowed" from a better sheet made by a certain Domenico. Oh, and the gif is actually a custom made super version of a similar gif, of which there are only 3 or 4 copies to be found by Google, and even then, evidently of an unknown source. Yep, it's one of those things. Stuff people have made, spread around, only for it to vanish and you to be the only person who still has a copy, not even knowing where it came from... like, literally at all. Oh, and anyone notice that Shadow's little chaos snap blast thingies are red and blue now? Yeah, I changed it. Problem, fans of purple? Yeah, I know you got a problem with that one, but you can just deal with it. After all, according to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly... alright, alright, I'll spare you the entire Bee Movie script, just Google it if you want. By the way, ever wonder how your characters would've ended up if they evolved in another universe? Yeah, that. Think about it. Ok, so you probably didn't bother reading up to here, but whatever, here's a surprise for you guys over at ESD (RP) who were crazy enough to read this: Emperor Nat of the mcfreakin' Terran Empire is gonna be right all along! The universe is gonna go BOOM! *Thumbs up to the insanity*
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
Reason is the no brainer stupid move by CBS but to hear other people opinions. It goes to CBS and Paramount, because it's really messed up.
CBS has a right to defend there IP. Plain and simple. I will not begrudge them that. Do I agree completely with how they have chosen to do that? Honestly, I am not sure.
While Fan-films are technically illegal and a violate of copyright law (and say what you will, they are. Again, this is a fact), they have been and really should continue to be a part of not only Star Trek but also many other franchises and works.
That said, without truly seeing the ramifications of this, I don't really think most of what they have laid down is all that restrictive. Yes, the alloted time, etc part is rather high handed, I hope in time they will be more lax about it, but again time will tell.
People need to understand that fan films are just that, they are never and should never attempt to compete with actual works. Axanar, no matter how good it was deeply crossed way too many lines to be allowed. It seems to me CBS' stance is indeed meant to clearly illustrate where they feel Alec Peters crossed the line.
It is simply no longer acceptable language.
It is our collective responsibility to call it out.
Prevarication is not allowed as a defense.
And who the **** are you to tell me, or anyone, what is, or is not acceptable language?? Who the **** do you think you are?? Go win a Darwin Award...
Okay how about I do it instead?
Knock off the language, the threats, etc. It is against the forum policies and next time it won't be me just saying something..
As for this entire thread, I've deleted multiple posts, and edited a few. Make sure you're following the rules folks or more than just little "slaps on the wrists" will occur.
Reason is the no brainer stupid move by CBS but to hear other people opinions. It goes to CBS and Paramount, because it's really messed up.
CBS has a right to defend there IP. Plain and simple. I will not begrudge them that. Do I agree completely with how they have chosen to do that? Honestly, I am not sure.
While Fan-films are technically illegal and a violate of copyright law (and say what you will, they are. Again, this is a fact), they have been and really should continue to be a part of not only Star Trek but also many other franchises and works.
That said, without truly seeing the ramifications of this, I don't really think most of what they have laid down is all that restrictive. Yes, the alloted time, etc part is rather high handed, I hope in time they will be more lax about it, but again time will tell.
People need to understand that fan films are just that, they are never and should never attempt to compete with actual works. Axanar, no matter how good it was deeply crossed way too many lines to be allowed. It seems to me CBS' stance is indeed meant to clearly illustrate where they feel Alec Peters crossed the line.
Problem is that it isn't just Axanar that will likely be affected. Star Trek Continues is at risk. Renegades is at risk. Phase 2/New Voyages (which I have just started watching) is at risk.
The interesting thing is: Alec peters and Axanar were touting the fact that Disney had rules for Star Wars Fan Films; and urging CBS and Paramount to adopt similar rules. The interesting thing to note is that as strict as these new Star Trek Fan Film Guidelines are, they are actually LESS draconian the Disney 'Star Wars' fan film guidelines.
CBS and Paramount Pictures are big believers in reasonable fan fiction and fan creativity, and, in particular, want amateur fan filmmakers to showcase their passion for Star Trek. Therefore, CBS and Paramount Pictures will not object to, or take legal action against, Star Trek fan productions that are non-professional and amateur and meet the following guidelines.
^^^
Doesn't explicitly state that they WILL ALWAYS take action if the above is violated - just that they MAY raise an objection or MAY take legal action.
IMO - It probably means that the Star Trek Continues group as well as the Renagades group might be allowed to continue and complete what they already announced they'll be doing; but any group starting up a new Fan Film project going forward now, runs a grater risk if the Guidelines are not followed. But again, that's conjecture on my part.
Then there's the final statement on the Guidelines page:
CBS and Paramount Pictures reserve the right to revise, revoke and/or withdraw these guidelines at any time in their own discretion. These guidelines are not a license and do not constitute approval or authorization of any fan productions or a waiver of any rights that CBS or Paramount Pictures may have with respect to fan fiction created outside of these guidelines.
So, effectively the situation remains that CBS and or Paramount are free to selectively go after anyone who doesn't obtain an IP License from them to produce something Star Trek related; but does decide to produce something Star Trek related.
As for Axanar in particular - "It's dead Jim." - 100%. CBS and Paramount have already raised the ultimate objection to Axanar by filing and pursuing the lawsuit; and further since Axanar Productions and Alec Peters have claimed IN COURT FILINGS that:
"No finalized/locked Axanar script exists."
I'm pretty sure ANY settlement with regard to the continuation of Axanar production will include a provision to the effect of: "Yes, you can, but ONLY if you completely follow the new Star Trek Fan Film guidelines that CBS and Paramount have set forth."
Hilariously (but sadly for many Star Trek fan film fans and groups), in the end, with regard to Star Trek Fan Film Guidelines, Alec Peters, Robert Meyer Burnett and hell, David Gerrold got EXACTLY what they were asking for from CBS and Paramount in their Tweets/Facebook Posts/Blogs. <--- So again, the old saying applies: "Be careful what you wish for.."
Kind of applicable here. Years ago, Hustler was trying to get user information from certain internet providers. The user information was for the names associated with specific ip addresses that had downloaded one of their movies. They had a partnership with one of the internet providers and informed their lawyer not to go after them for the information. The lawyer did anyone and Hustler fired him. The point is, they never acquired another attorney as their stance of not going after one internet providers' customers, while going after the rest would have put them in a difficult position in court. Attempting to sue one group of movie pirates, but ignoring the ones that use a service provided by one of their partners.
CBS and Paramount might find themselves in an all or nothing situation like Hustler did. So I wouldn't say for certainty that Star Trek Continues and Renegades is safe.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
Reason is the no brainer stupid move by CBS but to hear other people opinions. It goes to CBS and Paramount, because it's really messed up.
cbs did exactly what they should have done years ago. There is nothing 'stupid' or 'messed up' about it
Problem is that it isn't just Axanar that will likely be affected. Star Trek Continues is at risk. Renegades is at risk. Phase 2/New Voyages (which I have just started watching) is at risk.
This isn't just about Axanar anymore.
Nobody is affected who doesn't deserve to be. An unauthorized production is an unauthorized production. They knew that from the start. If they are unwilling or unable to get permission for it then they shouldn't be doing it in the first place
The interesting thing is: Alec peters and Axanar were touting the fact that Disney had rules for Star Wars Fan Films; and urging CBS and Paramount to adopt similar rules. The interesting thing to note is that as strict as these new Star Trek Fan Film Guidelines are, they are actually LESS draconian the Disney 'Star Wars' fan film guidelines.
CBS and Paramount Pictures are big believers in reasonable fan fiction and fan creativity, and, in particular, want amateur fan filmmakers to showcase their passion for Star Trek. Therefore, CBS and Paramount Pictures will not object to, or take legal action against, Star Trek fan productions that are non-professional and amateur and meet the following guidelines.
^^^
Doesn't explicitly state that they WILL ALWAYS take action if the above is violated - just that they MAY raise an objection or MAY take legal action.
IMO - It probably means that the Star Trek Continues group as well as the Renagades group might be allowed to continue and complete what they already announced they'll be doing; but any group starting up a new Fan Film project going forward now, runs a grater risk if the Guidelines are not followed. But again, that's conjecture on my part.
Then there's the final statement on the Guidelines page:
CBS and Paramount Pictures reserve the right to revise, revoke and/or withdraw these guidelines at any time in their own discretion. These guidelines are not a license and do not constitute approval or authorization of any fan productions or a waiver of any rights that CBS or Paramount Pictures may have with respect to fan fiction created outside of these guidelines.
So, effectively the situation remains that CBS and or Paramount are free to selectively go after anyone who doesn't obtain an IP License from them to produce something Star Trek related; but does decide to produce something Star Trek related.
As for Axanar in particular - "It's dead Jim." - 100%. CBS and Paramount have already raised the ultimate objection to Axanar by filing and pursuing the lawsuit; and further since Axanar Productions and Alec Peters have claimed IN COURT FILINGS that:
"No finalized/locked Axanar script exists."
I'm pretty sure ANY settlement with regard to the continuation of Axanar production will include a provision to the effect of: "Yes, you can, but ONLY if you completely follow the new Star Trek Fan Film guidelines that CBS and Paramount have set forth."
Hilariously (but sadly for many Star Trek fan film fans and groups), in the end, with regard to Star Trek Fan Film Guidelines, Alec Peters, Robert Meyer Burnett and hell, David Gerrold got EXACTLY what they were asking for from CBS and Paramount in their Tweets/Facebook Posts/Blogs. <--- So again, the old saying applies: "Be careful what you wish for.."
Kind of applicable here. Years ago, Hustler was trying to get user information from certain internet providers. The user information was for the names associated with specific ip addresses that had downloaded one of their movies. They had a partnership with one of the internet providers and informed their lawyer not to go after them for the information. The lawyer did anyone and Hustler fired him. The point is, they never acquired another attorney as their stance of not going after one internet providers' customers, while going after the rest would have put them in a difficult position in court. Attempting to sue one group of movie pirates, but ignoring the ones that use a service provided by one of their partners.
CBS and Paramount might find themselves in an all or nothing situation like Hustler did. So I wouldn't say for certainty that Star Trek Continues and Renegades is safe.
^^^
Not really. Copyright law (not Trademark law and Axanar/Alec Peters was sued for Copyright violation) ; allows the Copyright holder(s) to pick and choose with no penalty. In other words they don't loose their Copyright if they decide not to sue a violator. So in the end CBS/Paramount could let current fan film groups in production complete whatever they had announced; or yes, C/P could decide to sue everyone.
Remember there's nothing in the Guidelines that says - "If you violate any of these Guidelines you WILL be sued..." - they read "If you want to be 100% certain to avoid us raising an objection (which we may or may not do); or face the possibility of legal action (which we may or may not take) - here are some Guidelines..."
Hell the last paragrapgh even states:
CBS and Paramount Pictures reserve the right to revise, revoke and/or withdraw these guidelines at any time in their own discretion. These guidelines are not a license and do not constitute approval or authorization of any fan productions or a waiver of any rights that CBS or Paramount Pictures may have with respect to fan fiction created outside of these guidelines.
^^^
Which basically says - "Oh, and we give up nothing with respect to our Star Trek IP rights . if we decide to object to or sue a fan made production; or take any other legal remedy available to us under the law - we will; even if they are following these Guidelines. We are the final arbiters as to what we will allow - Period."
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Reason is the no brainer stupid move by CBS but to hear other people opinions. It goes to CBS and Paramount, because it's really messed up.
CBS has a right to defend there IP. Plain and simple. I will not begrudge them that. Do I agree completely with how they have chosen to do that? Honestly, I am not sure.
While Fan-films are technically illegal and a violate of copyright law (and say what you will, they are. Again, this is a fact), they have been and really should continue to be a part of not only Star Trek but also many other franchises and works.
That said, without truly seeing the ramifications of this, I don't really think most of what they have laid down is all that restrictive. Yes, the alloted time, etc part is rather high handed, I hope in time they will be more lax about it, but again time will tell.
People need to understand that fan films are just that, they are never and should never attempt to compete with actual works. Axanar, no matter how good it was deeply crossed way too many lines to be allowed. It seems to me CBS' stance is indeed meant to clearly illustrate where they feel Alec Peters crossed the line.
Problem is that it isn't just Axanar that will likely be affected. Star Trek Continues is at risk. Renegades is at risk. Phase 2/New Voyages (which I have just started watching) is at risk.
This isn't just about Axanar anymore.
I understand that point of view, and I can sympathize with that. That is one of the reasons many people (myself included), who aren't necessarily directly involved are mad at Alec Peters. He crossed a line he should have known not to cross and put all those productions at risk. As a self proclaimed "fan of star trek" that was a careless and stupid move on his part.
At the same time, I can not and will not fault CBS or Paramount for defending their IP. Even if I don't agree with the end result.
Nobody is affected who doesn't deserve to be. An unauthorized production is an unauthorized production. They knew that from the start. If they are unwilling or unable to get permission for it then they shouldn't be doing it in the first place
I think that is over simplifying things. True, unauthorized is unauthorized, but fan films are and have been part of Star Trek for ages, if not from the beginning. And again, it has been stated that CBS has not only openly ignored some productions (specifically Continues) but has even gone to bat for them at times too.
Hopefully those productions can continue to work with CBS in some fashion to continue their fan productions as they have, without worry of legal action.
If they released a system for you to get a licence allowing you to do ALOT more than the current rules, than it would be a little easier to swallow, but it still tastes bad regardless of how much sugar you could put on it. They reduced fan films down to home movies. There is no way out of these rules unless you threaten the profit margin of CBS, and to be honest, they shouldn't be shitting themselves with the money they have over a fan film. But it was they have chosen. I think they should be open to amending the guidelines for how much of said content you can produce. They should have negotiated. I think there should be some sort of formal guideline for the fan films, but nothing like this. It truly is a shame, and I hope they will come to there senses and repeal/amend it, but I doubt it will happen.
#DarkDayforFans
Support the movement! Come stand with us in supporting Star Trek: The Animated Series content for STO! (It's canon!) #TASforSTO
Time travel and glass-cannon ships hurt my head and is NOT what Trek is about. Trek is exploration, becoming better as a species, and gaining scientific knowledge while holding on to the traditions that got us where were are. Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
If the axanar guy knew he didnt have permission to make a star trek movie, and still asked for and took people's money to make one, he's a scammer in my opinion.
Well, whaddaya know - RE and I agree on something.
Not really. Copyright law (not Trademark law and Axanar/Alec Peters was sued for Copyright violation) ; allows the Copyright holder(s) to pick and choose with no penalty. In other words they don't loose their Copyright if they decide not to sue a violator. So in the end CBS/Paramount could let current fan film groups in production complete whatever they had announced; or yes, C/P could decide to sue everyone.
Remember there's nothing in the Guidelines that says - "If you violate any of these Guidelines you WILL be sued..." - they read "If you want to be 100% certain to avoid us raising an objection (which we may or may not do); or face the possibility of legal action (which we may or may not take) - here are some Guidelines..."
Except it doesn't actually work that way in reality. In reality, if you try to pick and choose who you sue for a violation and deliberately pick out one person for legal action knowing others are doing the same thing and ignore them, you're going to end up with a situation where the person you're trying to sue to protect your IP is going to see the fact that you are singling them out, turn around and sue you for harassment and malicious prosecution. Its illegal to single people out for prosecution, even if you are in the right.
Which basically says - "Oh, and we give up nothing with respect to our Star Trek IP rights . if we decide to object to or sue a fan made production; or take any other legal remedy available to us under the law - we will; even if they are following these Guidelines. We are the final arbiters as to what we will allow - Period."
To which the person cbs is trying to go after will turn around, point at the official guidelines that cbs posted to avoid legal action and get a summary judgement against cbs, shutting down said lawsuit. Those guidelines work both ways. If you publish them you can't turn around and sue someone for following the very rules that you yourself told them to abide by
I think that is over simplifying things. True, unauthorized is unauthorized, but fan films are and have been part of Star Trek for ages, if not from the beginning. And again, it has been stated that CBS has not only openly ignored some productions (specifically Continues) but has even gone to bat for them at times too.
As has been stated multiple times already, cbs had no reason to go after those other productions. Those other productions stayed within the requirements not to make money off of their productions that cbs made very clear to them. In short, cbs told them what to do to avoid a lawsuit and those requirements were followed. The same cannot be said of axanar.
Well, whaddaya know - RE and I agree on something
Scary isn't it. I wonder if this means that the summer event has frozen over and risa is now hosting the 2016 winter event 6 months early
I wonder how closely CBS/Paramount will keep an eye on new fan films now? Could people could get away with minor infractions?
If the fan production uses commercially-available Star Trek uniforms, accessories, toys and props, these items must be official merchandise and not bootleg items or imitations of such commercially available products.
I think this means people can still build their own props/costumes?
Nope, because then those props/constumes would be imitations...
I disagree. If you make a duplicate of a Starfleet uniform and don't SELL the duplicate, it's ok. The key here is that CBS doesn't want people to make money selling unlicensed merchandise.
Yep, Continues and the other fan series (whose title escapes me) just got flushed right out the airlock.
Thanks loads, Peters. You and your larcenous ego just ruined it for everyone.
My thoughts exactly.
Phase II, Continues, Renegades (even if I didn't like the pilot), and the planned Horizon sequel.
Fantastic job Peters you greedy berk.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Not really. Copyright law (not Trademark law and Axanar/Alec Peters was sued for Copyright violation) ; allows the Copyright holder(s) to pick and choose with no penalty. In other words they don't loose their Copyright if they decide not to sue a violator. So in the end CBS/Paramount could let current fan film groups in production complete whatever they had announced; or yes, C/P could decide to sue everyone.
Remember there's nothing in the Guidelines that says - "If you violate any of these Guidelines you WILL be sued..." - they read "If you want to be 100% certain to avoid us raising an objection (which we may or may not do); or face the possibility of legal action (which we may or may not take) - here are some Guidelines..."
Except it doesn't actually work that way in reality. In reality, if you try to pick and choose who you sue for a violation and deliberately pick out one person for legal action knowing others are doing the same thing and ignore them, you're going to end up with a situation where the person you're trying to sue to protect your IP is going to see the fact that you are singling them out, turn around and sue you for harassment and malicious prosecution. Its illegal to single people out for prosecution, even if you are in the right.
^^^
Um sorry, but it DOES work that way with regard to Copyright law. If Axanar could have gotten this lawsuit dismissed by claiming 'legal harassment' - they would have. Again current Copyright law ALLOWS the Copyright holder to selectively file against Copyright Infringers with NO PENALTY to them or their Copyright. Bottom line for Copyright: It DOES work that way in the real world.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Is that a profanity-filter circumventing insult or a real one? I like it
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
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I encourage everyone to report all posts calling for violence against a person with the Flag button.
This is not the world any of us wants where this kind of speech is acceptable behavior.
My take on it is that the Axanar people have been taking flippin' enormous liberties with the IP and then daring the owners to get tough in defending it. So, guess what, they've got tough.
I'm inclined to suspect that they'd take a more forgiving view towards fan film makers who, y'know, don't take flippin' enormous liberties. (As others have noted, they've even sided with fan film makers in the past.) Since they've been, in effect, dared to set out Draconian rules, then Draconian rules is what they've set out.
(My own plans to lose twelve stone, get a sex change, and play Ronnie Grau in a home-made movie adaptation of "The Three-Handed Game" are now on hold, of course. Come to think of it, that should come as a relief to everyone.)
Reason is the no brainer stupid move by CBS but to hear other people opinions. It goes to CBS and Paramount, because it's really messed up.
Knock off the language, the threats, etc. It is against the forum policies and next time it won't be me just saying something..
As for this entire thread, I've deleted multiple posts, and edited a few. Make sure you're following the rules folks or more than just little "slaps on the wrists" will occur.
As in I'll go cry to Trendy
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
CBS has a right to defend there IP. Plain and simple. I will not begrudge them that. Do I agree completely with how they have chosen to do that? Honestly, I am not sure.
While Fan-films are technically illegal and a violate of copyright law (and say what you will, they are. Again, this is a fact), they have been and really should continue to be a part of not only Star Trek but also many other franchises and works.
That said, without truly seeing the ramifications of this, I don't really think most of what they have laid down is all that restrictive. Yes, the alloted time, etc part is rather high handed, I hope in time they will be more lax about it, but again time will tell.
People need to understand that fan films are just that, they are never and should never attempt to compete with actual works. Axanar, no matter how good it was deeply crossed way too many lines to be allowed. It seems to me CBS' stance is indeed meant to clearly illustrate where they feel Alec Peters crossed the line.
Problem is that it isn't just Axanar that will likely be affected. Star Trek Continues is at risk. Renegades is at risk. Phase 2/New Voyages (which I have just started watching) is at risk.
This isn't just about Axanar anymore.
Kind of applicable here. Years ago, Hustler was trying to get user information from certain internet providers. The user information was for the names associated with specific ip addresses that had downloaded one of their movies. They had a partnership with one of the internet providers and informed their lawyer not to go after them for the information. The lawyer did anyone and Hustler fired him. The point is, they never acquired another attorney as their stance of not going after one internet providers' customers, while going after the rest would have put them in a difficult position in court. Attempting to sue one group of movie pirates, but ignoring the ones that use a service provided by one of their partners.
CBS and Paramount might find themselves in an all or nothing situation like Hustler did. So I wouldn't say for certainty that Star Trek Continues and Renegades is safe.
cbs did exactly what they should have done years ago. There is nothing 'stupid' or 'messed up' about it
Nobody is affected who doesn't deserve to be. An unauthorized production is an unauthorized production. They knew that from the start. If they are unwilling or unable to get permission for it then they shouldn't be doing it in the first place
Not really. Copyright law (not Trademark law and Axanar/Alec Peters was sued for Copyright violation) ; allows the Copyright holder(s) to pick and choose with no penalty. In other words they don't loose their Copyright if they decide not to sue a violator. So in the end CBS/Paramount could let current fan film groups in production complete whatever they had announced; or yes, C/P could decide to sue everyone.
Remember there's nothing in the Guidelines that says - "If you violate any of these Guidelines you WILL be sued..." - they read "If you want to be 100% certain to avoid us raising an objection (which we may or may not do); or face the possibility of legal action (which we may or may not take) - here are some Guidelines..."
Hell the last paragrapgh even states:
^^^
Which basically says - "Oh, and we give up nothing with respect to our Star Trek IP rights . if we decide to object to or sue a fan made production; or take any other legal remedy available to us under the law - we will; even if they are following these Guidelines. We are the final arbiters as to what we will allow - Period."
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I understand that point of view, and I can sympathize with that. That is one of the reasons many people (myself included), who aren't necessarily directly involved are mad at Alec Peters. He crossed a line he should have known not to cross and put all those productions at risk. As a self proclaimed "fan of star trek" that was a careless and stupid move on his part.
At the same time, I can not and will not fault CBS or Paramount for defending their IP. Even if I don't agree with the end result.
I think that is over simplifying things. True, unauthorized is unauthorized, but fan films are and have been part of Star Trek for ages, if not from the beginning. And again, it has been stated that CBS has not only openly ignored some productions (specifically Continues) but has even gone to bat for them at times too.
Hopefully those productions can continue to work with CBS in some fashion to continue their fan productions as they have, without worry of legal action.
#DarkDayforFans
Come stand with us in supporting Star Trek: The Animated Series content for STO! (It's canon!) #TASforSTO
Time travel and glass-cannon ships hurt my head and is NOT what Trek is about. Trek is exploration, becoming better as a species, and gaining scientific knowledge while holding on to the traditions that got us where were are.
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Except it doesn't actually work that way in reality. In reality, if you try to pick and choose who you sue for a violation and deliberately pick out one person for legal action knowing others are doing the same thing and ignore them, you're going to end up with a situation where the person you're trying to sue to protect your IP is going to see the fact that you are singling them out, turn around and sue you for harassment and malicious prosecution. Its illegal to single people out for prosecution, even if you are in the right.
To which the person cbs is trying to go after will turn around, point at the official guidelines that cbs posted to avoid legal action and get a summary judgement against cbs, shutting down said lawsuit. Those guidelines work both ways. If you publish them you can't turn around and sue someone for following the very rules that you yourself told them to abide by
As has been stated multiple times already, cbs had no reason to go after those other productions. Those other productions stayed within the requirements not to make money off of their productions that cbs made very clear to them. In short, cbs told them what to do to avoid a lawsuit and those requirements were followed. The same cannot be said of axanar.
Scary isn't it. I wonder if this means that the summer event has frozen over and risa is now hosting the 2016 winter event 6 months early
My character Tsin'xing
My thoughts exactly.
Phase II, Continues, Renegades (even if I didn't like the pilot), and the planned Horizon sequel.
Fantastic job Peters you greedy berk.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Um sorry, but it DOES work that way with regard to Copyright law. If Axanar could have gotten this lawsuit dismissed by claiming 'legal harassment' - they would have. Again current Copyright law ALLOWS the Copyright holder to selectively file against Copyright Infringers with NO PENALTY to them or their Copyright. Bottom line for Copyright: It DOES work that way in the real world.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Is that a profanity-filter circumventing insult or a real one? I like it
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https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/berk
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