From Vic: While we are grateful for and humbled by fan support, helping fan productions will not come in the form of anger and threats of boycott toward CBS. Those that are calling on the fans for any such actions do not represent the ideals of Star Trek, nor the best interests of Trek fan films in general. If you insist on spreading negativity about CBS, do it elsewhere. It is not welcome here and I've asked that any such posts be deleted immediately.
It's like this guy has never seen an internet forum revolving around Star Trek before.
What do you make of "The fan production must be less than 15 minutes for a single self-contained story, or no more than 2 segments, episodes or parts, not to exceed 30 minutes total, with no additional seasons, episodes, parts, sequels or remakes?" Specifically "with no additional seasons, episodes, parts, sequels or remakes."
I think that means that after someone produces a Star Trek story within the guidelines, they aren't allowed to produce further stories period.
I've asked that any such posts be deleted immediately.
He is wasting his time there, you can't block out social media. Unless CBS have somehow created their own personal firewall that somehow envelopes the entire globe.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I've asked that any such posts be deleted immediately.
He is wasting his time there, you can't block out social media. Unless CBS have somehow created their own personally firewall that somehow envelopes the entire globe.
First of all, I'm sure Mignogna was referring to the Continues FB page only, not all of social media.
Secondly, it's very ironic you're bringing up how a fan film should conduct themselves on social media, given the well-documented antics of Alec Peters.
I've asked that any such posts be deleted immediately.
He is wasting his time there, you can't block out social media. Unless CBS have somehow created their own personally firewall that somehow envelopes the entire globe.
First of all, I'm sure Mignogna was referring to the Continues FB page only, not all of social media.
Secondly, it's very ironic you're bringing up how a fan film should conduct themselves on social media, given the well-documented antics of Alec Peters.
Yeah I got that when he said do it elsewhere. But it's the way he is saying it.
Oh, Hardly! If they want to go on crusade to persuade others to defend CBS like it's some sort of Jerusalem, then by all means do so. Just let me get my popcorn.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
for those saying invent your own thing - no one cares about anything they are not told with massive advertising budgets to watch. Yes, you can have limited "success." Maybe a little more if you are young and have some sex appeal to sell. In 2 years I have had around 200,000 free downloads of my books and over 10,000 paid sales - a large % at .33 cents. Not enough to buy groceries for the year. You will not 'make it' ever. Put it out of your mind and write what you want to write for yourself only. If someone else ever likes it that's gravy. For me it's not at all about the money - same as for most of the fan film people. They are doing what they want to do.
I know the law in this area very well and of course the corporation can enforce their rights at any time. I was surprised they didn't do it sooner. I believe they only did so now due to a change in their corporate relationships, structures, and plans for the future. Which I think will be very grim.
Renegades announced that they're removing all references to Trek and forging on with their series. I will support them in any way I can - possibly with a large donation if this miser can stomach the pain of vault opening.
Actually this is not true. There have been several examples of people creating brand new things that took off...Harry Potter, The Martian and Ready Player One.
Just because it hasn't happened for you doesn't mean it can't happen for someone else.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
well... if someone wants a silver lining here.... my snark and sarcasm coughed one up for you, mostly because Knight Rider was on the TV when I walked through the living room
well... if someone wants a silver lining here.... my snark and sarcasm coughed one up for you, mostly because Knight Rider was on the TV when I walked through the living room
Proof positive.... One man CAN make a difference.
...if they are backed by a multi-million dollar foundation and given a one of a kind talking invincible Trans-Am
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
well... if someone wants a silver lining here.... my snark and sarcasm coughed one up for you, mostly because Knight Rider was on the TV when I walked through the living room
Proof positive.... One man CAN make a difference.
...if they are backed by a multi-million dollar foundation and given a one of a kind talking invincible Trans-Am
well... if someone wants a silver lining here.... my snark and sarcasm coughed one up for you, mostly because Knight Rider was on the TV when I walked through the living room
Proof positive.... One man CAN make a difference.
...if they are backed by a multi-million dollar foundation and given a one of a kind talking invincible Trans-Am
or they try to steal star trek
this too
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
You know, it's kind of funny that someone with the screenname "sheldonlcooper" thinks that for anything to succeed, it has to piggyback off an existing franchise.
When The Big Bang Theory was sold to CBS, it was on the strength of its pitch, nothing more. There was no existing "misfit geniuses in college" franchise for it to launch from, or even an existing "slice-of-life for teaching assistants" - it was an original thing, never before seen, in the genre of "sitcom".
Similarly, if you think you have a story to tell in the form of a movie or series of TV-like episodes, by all means tell it. Just don't lean on the crutch of an existing major franchise to do so. Hell, you could even do a "no franchises were harmed" version, with your own interstellar comity of cooperating worlds, occasionally opposed by alien empires of one sort or another - just don't use the words "United Federation of Planets", "Klingon Empire", or "Romulans", and you should be fine. (Thinking on it, I kind of like "Interstellar Comity" as a name for the Federation-expy...) It'll save you on sets and props, too, because you won't have to spend time and effort to make the best imitations of Trek items that you can manage - and free you to film a storyline along the lines of the Masterverse tales we're seeing from patrickngo and marcusdkane here in these very forums. (Their vision is brilliant, but their Federation is only the Star Trek Federation in name, not action or attitude. It's believable, sometimes more so than the official version, but not the same.)
The best thing to do is go and make your own thing
This. In my most frank opinion, and no offense to anyone intended that doesn't agree, but I feel the current guidelines are not as draconian as some might say they are, and that trying to personally make movies/episodes of someone elses IP, is actually a sign of obsession about a fiction that goes beyond just being a fan when it would be more sensible to put such resources into a completely new fiction you can call your own and evolve it. It's infinitely more satisfying to be able to consider a work purely your own baby to raise into something grand and no one elses! I feel originality is an overly lost art these days, even to Cryptic and the current IP holders above Cryptic.
I may not be considered a Trek fan in both my own eyes and others eyes, simply I appreciated casually what Trek is, and was, and will continue to enjoy it for what it's worth in the future, but I believe in keeping things simple and let the IP holders do as they see fit at the end of the day and put things into perspective. Let's pride ourselves in bold originality more! Originality and new things is how the future happens.
Well, the basic idea I was espousing earlier is that above a certain level, being a fan creator is pointless. Once you reach a certain point you're spending so much time and effort on it that you might as well write something you can sell.
So it's went from strict guidelines to describing fan made as a horrible obsession that's leeching off profit and ideas, then about making money and creating businesses. Did I miss anything?
* fanmade 1.Created unofficially by enthusiasts.
It might be a difficult concept for some to grasp. But it's not suppose to be about fame and fortunes. If you're doing it for that alone then I would call you an entrepreneur not a fan. Same goes for artists. They do it because they enjoy it, not because their stuff will be worth 100 million one day... If you enjoy it enough it is never pointless or waste of time...
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
why? the only thing they'd get out of it would be whatever they donated to axanar in the first place, and MAYBE, if their lawyer is any good, something for damages...all of which would then promptly go towards paying said lawyer, plus much more
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
why? the only thing they'd get out of it would be whatever they donated to axanar in the first place, and MAYBE, if their lawyer is any good, something for damages...all of which would then promptly go towards paying said lawyer, plus much more
if i had a choice between suing to get back a few dollars only to have to pay a HUNDRED times that in lawyer fees or just writing it off...i'll just write it off as a bad investment and go on my way
unless you donated a few hundred or thousand dollars, it just isn't worth it
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
What Shadowfang240 said. Swallow your pride and move on.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
So it's went from strict guidelines to describing fan made as a horrible obsession that's leeching off profit and ideas, then about making money and creating businesses. Did I miss anything?
* fanmade 1.Created unofficially by enthusiasts.
It might be a difficult concept for some to grasp. But it's not suppose to be about fame and fortunes. If you're doing it for that alone then I would call you an entrepreneur not a fan. Same goes for artists. They do it because they enjoy it, not because their stuff will be worth 100 million one day... If you enjoy it enough it is never pointless or waste of time...
Which is why Alec Peters is being sued. He didn't do that.
Also, depending on the results of the court case, Kickstarter may decide that Peters needs to pay back the money. Part of their terms of service is that the money creators use their site to collect needs to be used for the stated purpose. Use of their site for fraud is something they don't allow, so if the Kickstarter guys decide that Axanar was fraudulent... ouch.
Well something to rejoice about for the people that donated. Might be enough left to buy for CBS All Access...
<Hides>
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
if i had a choice between suing to get back a few dollars only to have to pay a HUNDRED times that in lawyer fees or just writing it off...i'll just write it off as a bad investment and go on my way
unless you donated a few hundred or thousand dollars, it just isn't worth it
if you could wrangle a class action the cost:return might work better
what would going for a class action do? does the state pay for a lawyer in one? because unless it does, i still don't see the point in filing a suit unless you donated above a certain amount
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
what would going for a class action do? does the state pay for a lawyer in one? because unless it does, i still don't see the point in filing a suit unless you donated above a certain amount
I'm no lawyer... but yes, class action suits are normally done for reasons of consumer protection, for the very reason you speak of.
I've gotten emails before about class action settlements for electronic devices (like an iPod or something), but in those cases, so many were sold that the payout was pennies-on-the-dollar.
This case would be much different, as it would affect a much smaller group of people. And they would need the kind of consumer protection backing a class-action would afford them.
what would going for a class action do? does the state pay for a lawyer in one? because unless it does, i still don't see the point in filing a suit unless you donated above a certain amount
My understanding of class action suits would be in practical terms the lawyers start it with the expectation of taking a cut of the damages and/or additional fees being levied to pay for the legal expenses at a scale determined by the state (not the lawyers). Once its rolling, how much you individually committed barely matters. They welcome every dollar of damages they can represent. The whole point is to aggregate all of those small complaints into a single case that can be resolved as one action and then the proportionate pay-out goes to everyone who joined the action if it succeeds.
But yeah, Kickstarter getting irate is FAR more immediately deadly. Their contracts are quite binding and they have somewhat less than zero pity for people besmirching their process and brand. Their livelihood is based on people who put money into their project getting satisfaction.
what would going for a class action do? does the state pay for a lawyer in one? because unless it does, i still don't see the point in filing a suit unless you donated above a certain amount
My understanding of class action suits would be in practical terms the lawyers start it with the expectation of taking a cut of the damages and/or additional fees being levied to pay for the legal expenses at a scale determined by the state (not the lawyers). Once its rolling, how much you individually committed barely matters. They welcome every dollar of damages they can represent. The whole point is to aggregate all of those small complaints into a single case that can be resolved as one action and then the proportionate pay-out goes to everyone who joined the action if it succeeds.
But yeah, Kickstarter getting irate is FAR more immediately deadly. Their contracts are quite binding and they have somewhat less than zero pity for people besmirching their process and brand. Their livelihood is based on people who put money into their project getting satisfaction.
Also, there's not much point to a class action suit if Kickstarter is going to do the same sort of thing on their own.
Honestly, I don't see how they can avoid it. You don't need much imagination to know the Kickstarter execs have no interest in future projects going unfunded because someone says "oh, it's just another Axanar - put money in and you'll get burned." Their reputation IS their business.
Seriously, Axanar is going to be a curse word around those parts for a while...
I would love it if Kickstarter and IndieGoGo went after Peters.
Kickstarter has a pretty poor record in policing the scams that use their services. It is largely on the donors to realize the advertised services are fraudulent and take action.
Comments
It's like this guy has never seen an internet forum revolving around Star Trek before.
I think that means that after someone produces a Star Trek story within the guidelines, they aren't allowed to produce further stories period.
Member since December 2009
He is wasting his time there, you can't block out social media. Unless CBS have somehow created their own personal firewall that somehow envelopes the entire globe.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
First of all, I'm sure Mignogna was referring to the Continues FB page only, not all of social media.
Secondly, it's very ironic you're bringing up how a fan film should conduct themselves on social media, given the well-documented antics of Alec Peters.
Yeah I got that when he said do it elsewhere. But it's the way he is saying it.
Oh, Hardly! If they want to go on crusade to persuade others to defend CBS like it's some sort of Jerusalem, then by all means do so. Just let me get my popcorn.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Actually this is not true. There have been several examples of people creating brand new things that took off...Harry Potter, The Martian and Ready Player One.
Just because it hasn't happened for you doesn't mean it can't happen for someone else.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Proof positive.... One man CAN make a difference.
...if they are backed by a multi-million dollar foundation and given a one of a kind talking invincible Trans-Am
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
or they try to steal star trek
this too
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
When The Big Bang Theory was sold to CBS, it was on the strength of its pitch, nothing more. There was no existing "misfit geniuses in college" franchise for it to launch from, or even an existing "slice-of-life for teaching assistants" - it was an original thing, never before seen, in the genre of "sitcom".
Similarly, if you think you have a story to tell in the form of a movie or series of TV-like episodes, by all means tell it. Just don't lean on the crutch of an existing major franchise to do so. Hell, you could even do a "no franchises were harmed" version, with your own interstellar comity of cooperating worlds, occasionally opposed by alien empires of one sort or another - just don't use the words "United Federation of Planets", "Klingon Empire", or "Romulans", and you should be fine. (Thinking on it, I kind of like "Interstellar Comity" as a name for the Federation-expy...) It'll save you on sets and props, too, because you won't have to spend time and effort to make the best imitations of Trek items that you can manage - and free you to film a storyline along the lines of the Masterverse tales we're seeing from patrickngo and marcusdkane here in these very forums. (Their vision is brilliant, but their Federation is only the Star Trek Federation in name, not action or attitude. It's believable, sometimes more so than the official version, but not the same.)
My character Tsin'xing
* fanmade 1.Created unofficially by enthusiasts.
It might be a difficult concept for some to grasp. But it's not suppose to be about fame and fortunes. If you're doing it for that alone then I would call you an entrepreneur not a fan. Same goes for artists. They do it because they enjoy it, not because their stuff will be worth 100 million one day... If you enjoy it enough it is never pointless or waste of time...
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
unless you donated a few hundred or thousand dollars, it just isn't worth it
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Also, depending on the results of the court case, Kickstarter may decide that Peters needs to pay back the money. Part of their terms of service is that the money creators use their site to collect needs to be used for the stated purpose. Use of their site for fraud is something they don't allow, so if the Kickstarter guys decide that Axanar was fraudulent... ouch.
My character Tsin'xing
<Hides>
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Very interesting that he's speaking out about the Axanar debacle. And yet, he still refuses to dive into the name-calling or trash-talking.
if you could wrangle a class action the cost:return might work better
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I'm no lawyer... but yes, class action suits are normally done for reasons of consumer protection, for the very reason you speak of.
I've gotten emails before about class action settlements for electronic devices (like an iPod or something), but in those cases, so many were sold that the payout was pennies-on-the-dollar.
This case would be much different, as it would affect a much smaller group of people. And they would need the kind of consumer protection backing a class-action would afford them.
My understanding of class action suits would be in practical terms the lawyers start it with the expectation of taking a cut of the damages and/or additional fees being levied to pay for the legal expenses at a scale determined by the state (not the lawyers). Once its rolling, how much you individually committed barely matters. They welcome every dollar of damages they can represent. The whole point is to aggregate all of those small complaints into a single case that can be resolved as one action and then the proportionate pay-out goes to everyone who joined the action if it succeeds.
But yeah, Kickstarter getting irate is FAR more immediately deadly. Their contracts are quite binding and they have somewhat less than zero pity for people besmirching their process and brand. Their livelihood is based on people who put money into their project getting satisfaction.
My character Tsin'xing
Seriously, Axanar is going to be a curse word around those parts for a while...
Kickstarter has a pretty poor record in policing the scams that use their services. It is largely on the donors to realize the advertised services are fraudulent and take action.