I wonder how closely CBS/Paramount will keep an eye on new fan films now? Could people could get away with minor infractions?
If the fan production uses commercially-available Star Trek uniforms, accessories, toys and props, these items must be official merchandise and not bootleg items or imitations of such commercially available products.
I think this means people can still build their own props/costumes?
Nope, because then those props/constumes would be imitations...
I disagree. If you make a duplicate of a Starfleet uniform and don't SELL the duplicate, it's ok. The key here is that CBS doesn't want people to make money selling unlicensed merchandise.
You may be right, but my reading of that, was that they don't want people using 'imitation' props/costumes in their fan films (I don't think selling them has anything to do with it) I believe, that they are saying that the costumes and props appearing in fan films have to be commercially available... and I'll bet they would then stipulate licenced ones too... I've seen an eBay store offering costumes from many sci-fi franchises... Some are (reasonably)screen accurate, but others, are unauthorized variations, such as say a black version of the Wrath of Khan jackets... I doubt those uniforms are being sold under license, and I bet those costumes would be seen as an issue, as they are not commercially available via licenced merch... Of course, I may be wrong, but I read that guideline as a means with which CBS can dictate the quality of a production, by the content it can present. It's no secret that I love Star Trek Continues, and I think it's a well-made production. If it had been shot using Rubies costumes, it would never have been able to capture the spirit of TOS in the way it did, as that came from the visual impact of the costumes/lighting etc...
PS Remember our conversation on solar roads? I saw someone post a video yesterday saying that there are plans for making Route 66 a solar road... (I haven't actually seen said video, but I just thought you might find it interesting )
licensed doesnt mean they are any more special than the fan made productions, if cryptic does something to upset cbs they would likely lose the license and sto would be no more. so it is the same thing from that point of view.
In this case it is. The program you use to make foundry stuff is licensed. That means everything that is in the toybox of the foundry is safe for you to play with. The only things you shouldn't do like recreating characters you can't use the likeness of is stated in th EULA or foundry guidelines or whatever it's called and if you violate those Cryptic takes down your mission, but they can't face anything from CBS at this point.
Then again, I have no idea how American copyright/trademark law works, but since STO and the foundry are already greenlit I don't think foundry authors have anything to be afraid of.
Indeed.
The fan film guidelines are just relevant if you have no other agreements with CBS. If you get a license, then the rules of the license apply. If you create Foundry content, you have to follow the rules for it, and the rules are agreed upon between Cryptic and CBS.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
The interesting thing is: Alec peters and Axanar were touting the fact that Disney had rules for Star Wars Fan Films; and urging CBS and Paramount to adopt similar rules. The interesting thing to note is that as strict as these new Star Trek Fan Film Guidelines are, they are actually LESS draconian the Disney 'Star Wars' fan film guidelines.
CBS and Paramount Pictures are big believers in reasonable fan fiction and fan creativity, and, in particular, want amateur fan filmmakers to showcase their passion for Star Trek. Therefore, CBS and Paramount Pictures will not object to, or take legal action against, Star Trek fan productions that are non-professional and amateur and meet the following guidelines.
^^^
Doesn't explicitly state that they WILL ALWAYS take action if the above is violated - just that they MAY raise an objection or MAY take legal action.
IMO - It probably means that the Star Trek Continues group as well as the Renagades group might be allowed to continue and complete what they already announced they'll be doing; but any group starting up a new Fan Film project going forward now, runs a grater risk if the Guidelines are not followed. But again, that's conjecture on my part.
Then there's the final statement on the Guidelines page:
CBS and Paramount Pictures reserve the right to revise, revoke and/or withdraw these guidelines at any time in their own discretion. These guidelines are not a license and do not constitute approval or authorization of any fan productions or a waiver of any rights that CBS or Paramount Pictures may have with respect to fan fiction created outside of these guidelines.
So, effectively the situation remains that CBS and or Paramount are free to selectively go after anyone who doesn't obtain an IP License from them to produce something Star Trek related; but does decide to produce something Star Trek related.
As for Axanar in particular - "It's dead Jim." - 100%. CBS and Paramount have already raised the ultimate objection to Axanar by filing and pursuing the lawsuit; and further since Axanar Productions and Alec Peters have claimed IN COURT FILINGS that:
"No finalized/locked Axanar script exists."
I'm pretty sure ANY settlement with regard to the continuation of Axanar production will include a provision to the effect of: "Yes, you can, but ONLY if you completely follow the new Star Trek Fan Film guidelines that CBS and Paramount have set forth."
Hilariously (but sadly for many Star Trek fan film fans and groups), in the end, with regard to Star Trek Fan Film Guidelines, Alec Peters, Robert Meyer Burnett and hell, David Gerrold got EXACTLY what they were asking for from CBS and Paramount in their Tweets/Facebook Posts/Blogs. <--- So again, the old saying applies: "Be careful what you wish for.."
Kind of applicable here. Years ago, Hustler was trying to get user information from certain internet providers. The user information was for the names associated with specific ip addresses that had downloaded one of their movies. They had a partnership with one of the internet providers and informed their lawyer not to go after them for the information. The lawyer did anyone and Hustler fired him. The point is, they never acquired another attorney as their stance of not going after one internet providers' customers, while going after the rest would have put them in a difficult position in court. Attempting to sue one group of movie pirates, but ignoring the ones that use a service provided by one of their partners.
CBS and Paramount might find themselves in an all or nothing situation like Hustler did. So I wouldn't say for certainty that Star Trek Continues and Renegades is safe.
^^^
Not really. Copyright law (not Trademark law and Axanar/Alec Peters was sued for Copyright violation) ; allows the Copyright holder(s) to pick and choose with no penalty. In other words they don't loose their Copyright if they decide not to sue a violator. So in the end CBS/Paramount could let current fan film groups in production complete whatever they had announced; or yes, C/P could decide to sue everyone.
Remember there's nothing in the Guidelines that says - "If you violate any of these Guidelines you WILL be sued..." - they read "If you want to be 100% certain to avoid us raising an objection (which we may or may not do); or face the possibility of legal action (which we may or may not take) - here are some Guidelines..."
Hell the last paragrapgh even states:
CBS and Paramount Pictures reserve the right to revise, revoke and/or withdraw these guidelines at any time in their own discretion. These guidelines are not a license and do not constitute approval or authorization of any fan productions or a waiver of any rights that CBS or Paramount Pictures may have with respect to fan fiction created outside of these guidelines.
^^^
Which basically says - "Oh, and we give up nothing with respect to our Star Trek IP rights . if we decide to object to or sue a fan made production; or take any other legal remedy available to us under the law - we will; even if they are following these Guidelines. We are the final arbiters as to what we will allow - Period."
Interesting, considering Hustler's lawsuit was also about copyright enforcement, at least according to the court documents.
I was actually one of the people they were going after in the lawsuit. My brother-in-law had got a hold of our wifi password (we didn't give it to him). My wife found him parked outside our house quite a few times during the week (not visiting, just sitting in his car for an hour or so before driving off). We later figured out what he was doing when we received the notification about the lawsuit and the details of the case.
My brother-in-law got real ticked off after I blocked him from the wifi. We didn't hear from him for over a year. Funny thing is, he played it to his family that we blocked him for no reason. They didn't talk to us for a while either, but changed their tune once they found out what he did.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
The relevant sentence isn't that difficult to parse.
If a given prop or uniform is commercially available, you must purchase the official product, not make your own or purchase an off-brand knockoff of the product. If it is not commercially available, knock yourself out. Thus, for instance, I know of no officially-licensed lirpas, so you could make your own if you wanted one in your show - but since there are commercially-available phaser models, you'd have to use those instead of your homemade equivalents.
I actually took it to mean you could scratch build anything you like, but if you buy stuff it has to be official/licensed.
I may be reading it wrong.
Ok, a closer reading~
If the fan production uses commercially-available Star Trek uniforms, accessories, toys and props, these items must be official merchandise and not bootleg items or imitations of such commercially available products.
Yeah, cleave too close, buy the licensed product. Take it as an invitation to make a few significant changes to any props or costuming you do in house.
but of course, since there's no way to tell the difference between an official product or a counterfeit/homemade one without an up-close and personal inspection...good luck trying to enforce that one, CBS
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
but of course, since there's no way to tell the difference between an official product or a counterfeit/homemade one without an up-close and personal inspection...good luck trying to enforce that one, CBS
That's what paper trails are for. If you're buying something officially licensed, there's a record of that purchase somewhere. If you're doing a fan-film, you're probably keeping an accounting book somewhere. If your books don't have a record of purchasing officially licensed products, then they might be within their right to issue a C&D order.
but of course, since there's no way to tell the difference between an official product or a counterfeit/homemade one without an up-close and personal inspection...good luck trying to enforce that one, CBS
Don't be ridiculous. If they feel an itch above their left eyebrow they retain to the right to shut you down. They don't need to prove or inspect anything. It's the legal equivalent of "The bat's already pulled back and ready to swing. Don't antagonize us."
If your quality is so good no one can tell the difference their best interest is severed by you continuing to do great work. They will always act in their own best interest. This whole thing is about protecting the favorable audience recognition and the economic ecology they've created. Amazingly GOOD fan productions aren't going to draw fire. Shoddy ones will get you burned, in no small part so CBS/Paramount can continue to work with their licensees and prove the value of being part of the Star Trek official family of businesses.
but of course, since there's no way to tell the difference between an official product or a counterfeit/homemade one without an up-close and personal inspection...good luck trying to enforce that one, CBS
That's what paper trails are for. If you're buying something officially licensed, there's a record of that purchase somewhere. If you're doing a fan-film, you're probably keeping an accounting book somewhere. If your books don't have a record of purchasing officially licensed products, then they might be within their right to issue a C&D order.
There's also the potential "I checked, but it was sold out everywhere I looked, so it didn't seem to be commercially available anymore" argument. There's really no way anyone could prove that is a lie ...
Is that a profanity-filter circumventing insult or a real one? I like it
Yeah, it's a real one that circumvents most filters because it's quite obscure. It also sums up exactly how I feel about Peters. I started watching 'Continues' the other day and it pains me that one person's greed has ruined so many other people's enjoyment.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
“…Certainly the loveliest happening of all for us was the fact that so many others began to feel the same way [about Star Trek as we did]. Television viewers by the millions began to take Star Trek to heart as their own personal optimistic view of the Human condition and future. They fought for the show, honored it, cherished it, wrote about it–and have continued to do their level best to make certain that it will live again.
…We were particularly amazed when thousands, then tens of thousands of people began creating their own personal Star Trek adventures. Stories, and paintings, and sculptures, and cookbooks. And songs, and poems, and fashions. And more. The list is still growing. It took some time for us to fully understand and appreciate what these people were saying. Eventually we realized that there is no more profound way in which people could express what Star Trek has meant to them than by creating their own very personal Star Trek things.
Because I am a writer, it was their Star Trek stories that especially gratified me. I have seen these writings in dog-eared notebooks of fans who didn’t look old enough to spell “cat.” I have seen them in meticulously produced fanzines, complete with excellent artwork. Some of it has even been done by professional writers, and much of it has come from those clearly on their way to becoming professional writers. Best of all, all of it was plainly done with love.
It is now a source of great joy for me to see their view of Star Trek, their new Star Trek stories, reaching professional publication here. I want to thank these writers, congratulate them on their efforts, and wish them good fortune on these and further of their voyages into other times and dimensions. Good writing is always a very personal thing and comes from the writer’s deepest self.
Star Trek was that kind of writing for me, and it moves me profoundly that it has also become so much a part of the inner self of so many other people.
Viewers like this have proved that there is a warm, loving, and intelligent lifeform out there–and that it may even be the dominant species on this planet.
That is the highest compliment and the greatest repayment that they could give us.”
And knock it off with the "Thanks, Alec" responses. While CBS/Paramount is entitled to be bitter that they let themselves be caught between their own lawsuit and pressure on them from Lin and Abrams, they certainly could have formed a less strategic set of guideline. One which doesn't shake their fingers at the same people they are still in court with. CBS/Paramount is BITTER and it shows.
While I also questioned Axanar's legal team having previously counter-sued, there is method to that madness. CBS/Paramount can't settle now. They must defend themselves further in court. One would think they would be happy about that? Current guidelines having been published or not, the lawsuit must go forward to the bitter end. I speculate those guidelines will get more than honorable mention over the course of the lawsuit proceedings. By the Judge, if not the law firms involved.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
but of course, since there's no way to tell the difference between an official product or a counterfeit/homemade one without an up-close and personal inspection...good luck trying to enforce that one, CBS
That's what paper trails are for. If you're buying something officially licensed, there's a record of that purchase somewhere. If you're doing a fan-film, you're probably keeping an accounting book somewhere. If your books don't have a record of purchasing officially licensed products, then they might be within their right to issue a C&D order.
There's also the potential "I checked, but it was sold out everywhere I looked, so it didn't seem to be commercially available anymore" argument. There's really no way anyone could prove that is a lie ...
Which is true. But that's for armchair lawyers to argue. The most important part is not to antagonize CBS, so if they want to look at your books, you show them your books. If they suspect anything shady going on, they'll have already made up their mind and put a potential target on you.
“…Certainly the loveliest happening of all for us was the fact that so many others began to feel the same way [about Star Trek as we did]. Television viewers by the millions began to take Star Trek to heart as their own personal optimistic view of the Human condition and future. They fought for the show, honored it, cherished it, wrote about it–and have continued to do their level best to make certain that it will live again.
…We were particularly amazed when thousands, then tens of thousands of people began creating their own personal Star Trek adventures. Stories, and paintings, and sculptures, and cookbooks. And songs, and poems, and fashions. And more. The list is still growing. It took some time for us to fully understand and appreciate what these people were saying. Eventually we realized that there is no more profound way in which people could express what Star Trek has meant to them than by creating their own very personal Star Trek things.
Because I am a writer, it was their Star Trek stories that especially gratified me. I have seen these writings in dog-eared notebooks of fans who didn’t look old enough to spell “cat.” I have seen them in meticulously produced fanzines, complete with excellent artwork. Some of it has even been done by professional writers, and much of it has come from those clearly on their way to becoming professional writers. Best of all, all of it was plainly done with love.
It is now a source of great joy for me to see their view of Star Trek, their new Star Trek stories, reaching professional publication here. I want to thank these writers, congratulate them on their efforts, and wish them good fortune on these and further of their voyages into other times and dimensions. Good writing is always a very personal thing and comes from the writer’s deepest self.
Star Trek was that kind of writing for me, and it moves me profoundly that it has also become so much a part of the inner self of so many other people.
Viewers like this have proved that there is a warm, loving, and intelligent lifeform out there–and that it may even be the dominant species on this planet.
That is the highest compliment and the greatest repayment that they could give us.”
And knock it off with the "Thanks, Alec" responses. While CBS/Paramount is entitled to be bitter that they let themselves be caught between their own lawsuit and pressure on them from Lin and Abrams, they certainly could have formed a less strategic set of guideline. One which doesn't shake their fingers at the same people they are still in court with. CBS/Paramount is BITTER and it shows.
While I also questioned Axanar's legal team having previously counter-sued, there is method to that madness. CBS/Paramount can't settle now. They must defend themselves further in court. One would think they would be happy about that? Current guidelines having been published or not, the lawsuit must go forward to the bitter end. I speculate those guidelines will get more than honorable mention over the course of the lawsuit proceedings. By the Judge, if not the law firms involved.
Thanks, Alec
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
And knock it off with the "Thanks, Alec" responses. While CBS/Paramount is entitled to be bitter that they let themselves be caught between their own lawsuit and pressure on them from Lin and Abrams, they certainly could have formed a less strategic set of guideline. One which doesn't shake their fingers at the same people they are still in court with. CBS/Paramount is BITTER and it shows.
While I also questioned Axanar's legal team having previously counter-sued, there is method to that madness. CBS/Paramount can't settle now. They must defend themselves further in court. One would think they would be happy about that? Current guidelines having been published or not, the lawsuit must go forward to the bitter end. I speculate those guidelines will get more than honorable mention over the course of the lawsuit proceedings. By the Judge, if not the law firms involved.
The guidelines are completely strategic, for making sure no substantial fan film happens again.
A negotiated settlement is always possible. What cannot happen is one side unilaterally dropping their lawsuit entirely.
And knock it off with the "Thanks, Alec" responses. While CBS/Paramount is entitled to be bitter that they let themselves be caught between their own lawsuit and pressure on them from Lin and Abrams, they certainly could have formed a less strategic set of guideline. One which doesn't shake their fingers at the same people they are still in court with. CBS/Paramount is BITTER and it shows.
You do realise that Peters is the reason these draconian guidelines exist now right?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
“…Certainly the loveliest happening of all for us was the fact that so many others began to feel the same way [about Star Trek as we did]. Television viewers by the millions began to take Star Trek to heart as their own personal optimistic view of the Human condition and future. They fought for the show, honored it, cherished it, wrote about it–and have continued to do their level best to make certain that it will live again.
…We were particularly amazed when thousands, then tens of thousands of people began creating their own personal Star Trek adventures. Stories, and paintings, and sculptures, and cookbooks. And songs, and poems, and fashions. And more. The list is still growing. It took some time for us to fully understand and appreciate what these people were saying. Eventually we realized that there is no more profound way in which people could express what Star Trek has meant to them than by creating their own very personal Star Trek things.
Because I am a writer, it was their Star Trek stories that especially gratified me. I have seen these writings in dog-eared notebooks of fans who didn’t look old enough to spell “cat.” I have seen them in meticulously produced fanzines, complete with excellent artwork. Some of it has even been done by professional writers, and much of it has come from those clearly on their way to becoming professional writers. Best of all, all of it was plainly done with love.
It is now a source of great joy for me to see their view of Star Trek, their new Star Trek stories, reaching professional publication here. I want to thank these writers, congratulate them on their efforts, and wish them good fortune on these and further of their voyages into other times and dimensions. Good writing is always a very personal thing and comes from the writer’s deepest self.
Star Trek was that kind of writing for me, and it moves me profoundly that it has also become so much a part of the inner self of so many other people.
Viewers like this have proved that there is a warm, loving, and intelligent lifeform out there–and that it may even be the dominant species on this planet.
That is the highest compliment and the greatest repayment that they could give us.”
And knock it off with the "Thanks, Alec" responses. While CBS/Paramount is entitled to be bitter that they let themselves be caught between their own lawsuit and pressure on them from Lin and Abrams, they certainly could have formed a less strategic set of guideline. One which doesn't shake their fingers at the same people they are still in court with. CBS/Paramount is BITTER and it shows.
While I also questioned Axanar's legal team having previously counter-sued, there is method to that madness. CBS/Paramount can't settle now. They must defend themselves further in court. One would think they would be happy about that? Current guidelines having been published or not, the lawsuit must go forward to the bitter end. I speculate those guidelines will get more than honorable mention over the course of the lawsuit proceedings. By the Judge, if not the law firms involved.
He's still a T-U-R-D in my book.
He knew exactly what he was doing right from the get go, and as soon a CBS started making inquires he went off the deep end.
He tried to use somebody else's "toys" to make himself a fortune and got caught with his pant down.
I hope the Judge uses the biggest "backdoor-ruling" he can, to put it to Mr. Peters.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
And knock it off with the "Thanks, Alec" responses. While CBS/Paramount is entitled to be bitter that they let themselves be caught between their own lawsuit and pressure on them from Lin and Abrams, they certainly could have formed a less strategic set of guideline. One which doesn't shake their fingers at the same people they are still in court with. CBS/Paramount is BITTER and it shows.
While I also questioned Axanar's legal team having previously counter-sued, there is method to that madness. CBS/Paramount can't settle now. They must defend themselves further in court. One would think they would be happy about that? Current guidelines having been published or not, the lawsuit must go forward to the bitter end. I speculate those guidelines will get more than honorable mention over the course of the lawsuit proceedings. By the Judge, if not the law firms involved.
The guidelines are completely strategic, for making sure no substantial fan film happens again.
A negotiated settlement is always possible. What cannot happen is one side unilaterally dropping their lawsuit entirely.
Agreed. And CBS reduced Fan Films down to home movies for people with money to burn and a passion to say "Look Mom! I'm on YouTube!"
Support the movement! Come stand with us in supporting Star Trek: The Animated Series content for STO! (It's canon!) #TASforSTO
Time travel and glass-cannon ships hurt my head and is NOT what Trek is about. Trek is exploration, becoming better as a species, and gaining scientific knowledge while holding on to the traditions that got us where were are. Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Agreed. And CBS reduced Fan Films down to home movies for people with money to burn and a passion to say "Look Mom! I'm on YouTube!"
Exactly. When CBS/Paramount could have taken the much higher road as was taken in 1976, they chose a less profitable road instead. Everybody loses with this set of guidelines.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
“…Certainly the loveliest happening of all for us was the fact that so many others began to feel the same way [about Star Trek as we did]. Television viewers by the millions began to take Star Trek to heart as their own personal optimistic view of the Human condition and future. They fought for the show, honored it, cherished it, wrote about it–and have continued to do their level best to make certain that it will live again.
…We were particularly amazed when thousands, then tens of thousands of people began creating their own personal Star Trek adventures. Stories, and paintings, and sculptures, and cookbooks. And songs, and poems, and fashions. And more. The list is still growing. It took some time for us to fully understand and appreciate what these people were saying. Eventually we realized that there is no more profound way in which people could express what Star Trek has meant to them than by creating their own very personal Star Trek things.
Because I am a writer, it was their Star Trek stories that especially gratified me. I have seen these writings in dog-eared notebooks of fans who didn’t look old enough to spell “cat.” I have seen them in meticulously produced fanzines, complete with excellent artwork. Some of it has even been done by professional writers, and much of it has come from those clearly on their way to becoming professional writers. Best of all, all of it was plainly done with love.
It is now a source of great joy for me to see their view of Star Trek, their new Star Trek stories, reaching professional publication here. I want to thank these writers, congratulate them on their efforts, and wish them good fortune on these and further of their voyages into other times and dimensions. Good writing is always a very personal thing and comes from the writer’s deepest self.
Star Trek was that kind of writing for me, and it moves me profoundly that it has also become so much a part of the inner self of so many other people.
Viewers like this have proved that there is a warm, loving, and intelligent lifeform out there–and that it may even be the dominant species on this planet.
That is the highest compliment and the greatest repayment that they could give us.”
And knock it off with the "Thanks, Alec" responses. While CBS/Paramount is entitled to be bitter that they let themselves be caught between their own lawsuit and pressure on them from Lin and Abrams, they certainly could have formed a less strategic set of guideline. One which doesn't shake their fingers at the same people they are still in court with. CBS/Paramount is BITTER and it shows.
While I also questioned Axanar's legal team having previously counter-sued, there is method to that madness. CBS/Paramount can't settle now. They must defend themselves further in court. One would think they would be happy about that? Current guidelines having been published or not, the lawsuit must go forward to the bitter end. I speculate those guidelines will get more than honorable mention over the course of the lawsuit proceedings. By the Judge, if not the law firms involved.
Had Alec Peters not snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by trying to counter-sue after JJ and Lin managed to get things 'taken care of', I'd bet that any guidelines CBS issued would have been nowhere near as draconian. Remember, CBS went to bat for Star Trek Continues against YouTube. They were happy with the epside and didn't consider it something they wanted pulled, so they told YuTube to re-host it... Now, because Alec tried to pull his 'lets write some guidelines to propose' schtick, this happened... Folks have every right to be pissed at him, and no reason to not say so...
“…Certainly the loveliest happening of all for us was the fact that so many others began to feel the same way [about Star Trek as we did]. Television viewers by the millions began to take Star Trek to heart as their own personal optimistic view of the Human condition and future. They fought for the show, honored it, cherished it, wrote about it–and have continued to do their level best to make certain that it will live again.
…We were particularly amazed when thousands, then tens of thousands of people began creating their own personal Star Trek adventures. Stories, and paintings, and sculptures, and cookbooks. And songs, and poems, and fashions. And more. The list is still growing. It took some time for us to fully understand and appreciate what these people were saying. Eventually we realized that there is no more profound way in which people could express what Star Trek has meant to them than by creating their own very personal Star Trek things.
Because I am a writer, it was their Star Trek stories that especially gratified me. I have seen these writings in dog-eared notebooks of fans who didn’t look old enough to spell “cat.” I have seen them in meticulously produced fanzines, complete with excellent artwork. Some of it has even been done by professional writers, and much of it has come from those clearly on their way to becoming professional writers. Best of all, all of it was plainly done with love.
It is now a source of great joy for me to see their view of Star Trek, their new Star Trek stories, reaching professional publication here. I want to thank these writers, congratulate them on their efforts, and wish them good fortune on these and further of their voyages into other times and dimensions. Good writing is always a very personal thing and comes from the writer’s deepest self.
Star Trek was that kind of writing for me, and it moves me profoundly that it has also become so much a part of the inner self of so many other people.
Viewers like this have proved that there is a warm, loving, and intelligent lifeform out there–and that it may even be the dominant species on this planet.
That is the highest compliment and the greatest repayment that they could give us.”
And knock it off with the "Thanks, Alec" responses. While CBS/Paramount is entitled to be bitter that they let themselves be caught between their own lawsuit and pressure on them from Lin and Abrams, they certainly could have formed a less strategic set of guideline. One which doesn't shake their fingers at the same people they are still in court with. CBS/Paramount is BITTER and it shows.
While I also questioned Axanar's legal team having previously counter-sued, there is method to that madness. CBS/Paramount can't settle now. They must defend themselves further in court. One would think they would be happy about that? Current guidelines having been published or not, the lawsuit must go forward to the bitter end. I speculate those guidelines will get more than honorable mention over the course of the lawsuit proceedings. By the Judge, if not the law firms involved.
It was going to happen sooner or later. Better sooner. CBS/Paramount seems to take pride in damaging it's customer relations. Least the Star Wars fan community is doing well, can't say the same for Trek.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
If they released a system for you to get a licence allowing you to do ALOT more than the current rules, than it would be a little easier to swallow, but it still tastes bad regardless of how much sugar you could put on it. They reduced fan films down to home movies. There is no way out of these rules unless you threaten the profit margin of CBS, and to be honest, they shouldn't be shitting themselves with the money they have over a fan film. But it was they have chosen. I think they should be open to amending the guidelines for how much of said content you can produce. They should have negotiated. I think there should be some sort of formal guideline for the fan films, but nothing like this. It truly is a shame, and I hope they will come to there senses and repeal/amend it, but I doubt it will happen.
#DarkDayforFans
There is a "System for getting a License". It's:
1) Get a meeting with the CBS or Paramount executive in change of Star Trek Licensing
2) Make a pitch
3) Get your pitch accepted and a License Agreement drawn up and signed.
4) Profit for all parties (Hopefully <-- that is always the risk.)
And because of 4) that means you will probably need a track record of success with whatever area you want to use Star trek for because Star trek isn't some new/unknown property. It's well know with a 50 year history, and a track record of it's own. That means the IP Holders aren't just going to listen to anyone (fan or otherwise) with some vague boilerplate idea.
Do you know why JJ Abrams/Bad Robot got a license to produce three new Star Trek films at a time when CBS/Paramount had publically stated it was their intention to 'rest' and not make any new Star trek productions? BECAUSE he was JJ Abrams and had a good track record with many of his works; and (in CBS/Paramount's eyes) was worth giving a 'pitch meeting' to; to the point they liked his pitch enough to greenlight a three film deal.
^^^
That's the system in place for getting a License; and it works. Just because you REALLY like something; it doesn't mean you can just walk into an office, tell them what you want, and expect them to say ok.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
It was going to happen sooner or later. Better sooner. CBS/Paramount seems to take pride in damaging it's customer relations. Least the Star Wars fan community is doing well, can't say the same for Trek.
I'm guessing you haven't looked at their guidelines for fan work...
It was going to happen sooner or later. Better sooner. CBS/Paramount seems to take pride in damaging it's customer relations. Least the Star Wars fan community is doing well, can't say the same for Trek.
I'm guessing you haven't looked at their guidelines for fan work...
Edit: Those look like guidelines for submitting a film for competitions. I've seen far longer ones of higher quality. And none have been scared by Disney with cease and desist or legal entanglements...
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
It was going to happen sooner or later. Better sooner. CBS/Paramount seems to take pride in damaging it's customer relations. Least the Star Wars fan community is doing well, can't say the same for Trek.
I'm guessing you haven't looked at their guidelines for fan work...
Things like 'information' haven't really stopped his speculation about the emotions and nonprofit-motivations of companies before.
“…Certainly the loveliest happening of all for us was the fact that so many others began to feel the same way [about Star Trek as we did]. Television viewers by the millions began to take Star Trek to heart as their own personal optimistic view of the Human condition and future. They fought for the show, honored it, cherished it, wrote about it–and have continued to do their level best to make certain that it will live again.
…We were particularly amazed when thousands, then tens of thousands of people began creating their own personal Star Trek adventures. Stories, and paintings, and sculptures, and cookbooks. And songs, and poems, and fashions. And more. The list is still growing. It took some time for us to fully understand and appreciate what these people were saying. Eventually we realized that there is no more profound way in which people could express what Star Trek has meant to them than by creating their own very personal Star Trek things.
Because I am a writer, it was their Star Trek stories that especially gratified me. I have seen these writings in dog-eared notebooks of fans who didn’t look old enough to spell “cat.” I have seen them in meticulously produced fanzines, complete with excellent artwork. Some of it has even been done by professional writers, and much of it has come from those clearly on their way to becoming professional writers. Best of all, all of it was plainly done with love.
It is now a source of great joy for me to see their view of Star Trek, their new Star Trek stories, reaching professional publication here. I want to thank these writers, congratulate them on their efforts, and wish them good fortune on these and further of their voyages into other times and dimensions. Good writing is always a very personal thing and comes from the writer’s deepest self.
Star Trek was that kind of writing for me, and it moves me profoundly that it has also become so much a part of the inner self of so many other people.
Viewers like this have proved that there is a warm, loving, and intelligent lifeform out there–and that it may even be the dominant species on this planet.
That is the highest compliment and the greatest repayment that they could give us.”
And knock it off with the "Thanks, Alec" responses. While CBS/Paramount is entitled to be bitter that they let themselves be caught between their own lawsuit and pressure on them from Lin and Abrams, they certainly could have formed a less strategic set of guideline. One which doesn't shake their fingers at the same people they are still in court with. CBS/Paramount is BITTER and it shows.
While I also questioned Axanar's legal team having previously counter-sued, there is method to that madness. CBS/Paramount can't settle now. They must defend themselves further in court. One would think they would be happy about that? Current guidelines having been published or not, the lawsuit must go forward to the bitter end. I speculate those guidelines will get more than honorable mention over the course of the lawsuit proceedings. By the Judge, if not the law firms involved.
You do realize that, at the time that was written Gene Roddenberry NO LONGER owned the Star trek IP, right? He sold the Star Trek IP lock stock and barrel to Paramount. Now yes, Paramount hired him as a Producer/Executive Consultant on later Star Trek projects; but he was in no position to grant or approve Star Trek licenses.
And the simple fact is - for approximately the last 15 years; CBS/Paramount never really sued any fan productions. there were a few times when they communicated their objections to some aspect of a fan production, UNTI Axanar; said fan production replied with "Okay, we won't do that"; and they made a change and CBS/Paramount said nothing further.
Also, there's the fact that Alec Peters referenced Disney's "Star Wars Fan Film Guidelines" and said that CBS/Paramount should enact similar Star Trek Fan Film guidelines; and that's EXACTLY what6 CBS and Paramount did. Plus, if you compare both sets against each other the CBS/Paramount Guidelines are LESS draconian then Disney's Star Wars Fan Film Guidelines - so in effect, Alec Peters is now upset that CBS/Paramount provided him (and the Star Trek Fan Film Community) with EXACTLY what he himself asked for?
And if people really want to hear from someone who was DIRECTLY and PERSONALLY responsible for the majority of Prelude To Axanar you would probably find this recent (made on June 23rd) interview with the featurette's director Christian Gossett here: http://www.gandtshow.com/episodes/gntSLChristianGossett.mp3
^^^
It's pretty candid and eye opening. So yeah, given all the above - it's pretty fair of the Star Trek Fan Film community to say:
"Thanks a lot, Alec Peters."
Axanar and Alec Peters pretty much deserve everything they've gotten to date.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
It was going to happen sooner or later. Better sooner. CBS/Paramount seems to take pride in damaging it's customer relations. Least the Star Wars fan community is doing well, can't say the same for Trek.
I'm guessing you haven't looked at their guidelines for fan work...
Things like 'information' haven't really stopped his speculation about the emotions and nonprofit-motivations of companies before.
Doesn't seem to make you stop either, after skimming by all the deleted posts you left behind.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
It was going to happen sooner or later. Better sooner. CBS/Paramount seems to take pride in damaging it's customer relations. Least the Star Wars fan community is doing well, can't say the same for Trek.
I'm guessing you haven't looked at their guidelines for fan work...
Things like 'information' haven't really stopped his speculation about the emotions and nonprofit-motivations of companies before.
Doesn't seem to make you stop either, after skimming by all the deleted posts you left behind.
Yeah, I really wonder what the context of all that could've possibly been...
You're attributing malice to a company defending as it must it's own intellectual property, because they've tanked a project you personally wanted. It is senseless to think that a company wants to alienate its own customer base. The people who feel most alienated here were not customers, because they were pursuing a non-CBS copy of a CBS product. CBS is rightfully bringing those people back into the fold of their product with these rules.
Comments
PS Remember our conversation on solar roads? I saw someone post a video yesterday saying that there are plans for making Route 66 a solar road... (I haven't actually seen said video, but I just thought you might find it interesting
The fan film guidelines are just relevant if you have no other agreements with CBS. If you get a license, then the rules of the license apply. If you create Foundry content, you have to follow the rules for it, and the rules are agreed upon between Cryptic and CBS.
Interesting, considering Hustler's lawsuit was also about copyright enforcement, at least according to the court documents.
I was actually one of the people they were going after in the lawsuit. My brother-in-law had got a hold of our wifi password (we didn't give it to him). My wife found him parked outside our house quite a few times during the week (not visiting, just sitting in his car for an hour or so before driving off). We later figured out what he was doing when we received the notification about the lawsuit and the details of the case.
My brother-in-law got real ticked off after I blocked him from the wifi. We didn't hear from him for over a year. Funny thing is, he played it to his family that we blocked him for no reason. They didn't talk to us for a while either, but changed their tune once they found out what he did.
While CBS / Paramount has every right to protect their IP, it is sad that the guidelines for fan made media content are rather draconian in nature.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
If a given prop or uniform is commercially available, you must purchase the official product, not make your own or purchase an off-brand knockoff of the product. If it is not commercially available, knock yourself out. Thus, for instance, I know of no officially-licensed lirpas, so you could make your own if you wanted one in your show - but since there are commercially-available phaser models, you'd have to use those instead of your homemade equivalents.
I may be reading it wrong.
Ok, a closer reading~
Yeah, cleave too close, buy the licensed product. Take it as an invitation to make a few significant changes to any props or costuming you do in house.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
That's what paper trails are for. If you're buying something officially licensed, there's a record of that purchase somewhere. If you're doing a fan-film, you're probably keeping an accounting book somewhere. If your books don't have a record of purchasing officially licensed products, then they might be within their right to issue a C&D order.
Don't be ridiculous. If they feel an itch above their left eyebrow they retain to the right to shut you down. They don't need to prove or inspect anything. It's the legal equivalent of "The bat's already pulled back and ready to swing. Don't antagonize us."
If your quality is so good no one can tell the difference their best interest is severed by you continuing to do great work. They will always act in their own best interest. This whole thing is about protecting the favorable audience recognition and the economic ecology they've created. Amazingly GOOD fan productions aren't going to draw fire. Shoddy ones will get you burned, in no small part so CBS/Paramount can continue to work with their licensees and prove the value of being part of the Star Trek official family of businesses.
There's also the potential "I checked, but it was sold out everywhere I looked, so it didn't seem to be commercially available anymore" argument. There's really no way anyone could prove that is a lie ...
Yeah, it's a real one that circumvents most filters because it's quite obscure. It also sums up exactly how I feel about Peters. I started watching 'Continues' the other day and it pains me that one person's greed has ruined so many other people's enjoyment.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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And knock it off with the "Thanks, Alec" responses. While CBS/Paramount is entitled to be bitter that they let themselves be caught between their own lawsuit and pressure on them from Lin and Abrams, they certainly could have formed a less strategic set of guideline. One which doesn't shake their fingers at the same people they are still in court with. CBS/Paramount is BITTER and it shows.
While I also questioned Axanar's legal team having previously counter-sued, there is method to that madness. CBS/Paramount can't settle now. They must defend themselves further in court. One would think they would be happy about that? Current guidelines having been published or not, the lawsuit must go forward to the bitter end. I speculate those guidelines will get more than honorable mention over the course of the lawsuit proceedings. By the Judge, if not the law firms involved.
Which is true. But that's for armchair lawyers to argue. The most important part is not to antagonize CBS, so if they want to look at your books, you show them your books. If they suspect anything shady going on, they'll have already made up their mind and put a potential target on you.
Thanks, Alec
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The guidelines are completely strategic, for making sure no substantial fan film happens again.
A negotiated settlement is always possible. What cannot happen is one side unilaterally dropping their lawsuit entirely.
You do realise that Peters is the reason these draconian guidelines exist now right?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
He's still a T-U-R-D in my book.
He knew exactly what he was doing right from the get go, and as soon a CBS started making inquires he went off the deep end.
He tried to use somebody else's "toys" to make himself a fortune and got caught with his pant down.
I hope the Judge uses the biggest "backdoor-ruling" he can, to put it to Mr. Peters.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Agreed. And CBS reduced Fan Films down to home movies for people with money to burn and a passion to say "Look Mom! I'm on YouTube!"
Come stand with us in supporting Star Trek: The Animated Series content for STO! (It's canon!) #TASforSTO
Time travel and glass-cannon ships hurt my head and is NOT what Trek is about. Trek is exploration, becoming better as a species, and gaining scientific knowledge while holding on to the traditions that got us where were are.
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Exactly. When CBS/Paramount could have taken the much higher road as was taken in 1976, they chose a less profitable road instead. Everybody loses with this set of guidelines.
Had Alec Peters not snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by trying to counter-sue after JJ and Lin managed to get things 'taken care of', I'd bet that any guidelines CBS issued would have been nowhere near as draconian. Remember, CBS went to bat for Star Trek Continues against YouTube. They were happy with the epside and didn't consider it something they wanted pulled, so they told YuTube to re-host it... Now, because Alec tried to pull his 'lets write some guidelines to propose' schtick, this happened... Folks have every right to be pissed at him, and no reason to not say so...
It was going to happen sooner or later. Better sooner. CBS/Paramount seems to take pride in damaging it's customer relations. Least the Star Wars fan community is doing well, can't say the same for Trek.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
There is a "System for getting a License". It's:
1) Get a meeting with the CBS or Paramount executive in change of Star Trek Licensing
2) Make a pitch
3) Get your pitch accepted and a License Agreement drawn up and signed.
4) Profit for all parties (Hopefully <-- that is always the risk.)
And because of 4) that means you will probably need a track record of success with whatever area you want to use Star trek for because Star trek isn't some new/unknown property. It's well know with a 50 year history, and a track record of it's own. That means the IP Holders aren't just going to listen to anyone (fan or otherwise) with some vague boilerplate idea.
Do you know why JJ Abrams/Bad Robot got a license to produce three new Star Trek films at a time when CBS/Paramount had publically stated it was their intention to 'rest' and not make any new Star trek productions? BECAUSE he was JJ Abrams and had a good track record with many of his works; and (in CBS/Paramount's eyes) was worth giving a 'pitch meeting' to; to the point they liked his pitch enough to greenlight a three film deal.
^^^
That's the system in place for getting a License; and it works. Just because you REALLY like something; it doesn't mean you can just walk into an office, tell them what you want, and expect them to say ok.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I'm guessing you haven't looked at their guidelines for fan work...
Edit: Those look like guidelines for submitting a film for competitions. I've seen far longer ones of higher quality. And none have been scared by Disney with cease and desist or legal entanglements...
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Things like 'information' haven't really stopped his speculation about the emotions and nonprofit-motivations of companies before.
You do realize that, at the time that was written Gene Roddenberry NO LONGER owned the Star trek IP, right? He sold the Star Trek IP lock stock and barrel to Paramount. Now yes, Paramount hired him as a Producer/Executive Consultant on later Star Trek projects; but he was in no position to grant or approve Star Trek licenses.
And the simple fact is - for approximately the last 15 years; CBS/Paramount never really sued any fan productions. there were a few times when they communicated their objections to some aspect of a fan production, UNTI Axanar; said fan production replied with "Okay, we won't do that"; and they made a change and CBS/Paramount said nothing further.
Also, there's the fact that Alec Peters referenced Disney's "Star Wars Fan Film Guidelines" and said that CBS/Paramount should enact similar Star Trek Fan Film guidelines; and that's EXACTLY what6 CBS and Paramount did. Plus, if you compare both sets against each other the CBS/Paramount Guidelines are LESS draconian then Disney's Star Wars Fan Film Guidelines - so in effect, Alec Peters is now upset that CBS/Paramount provided him (and the Star Trek Fan Film Community) with EXACTLY what he himself asked for?
And if people really want to hear from someone who was DIRECTLY and PERSONALLY responsible for the majority of Prelude To Axanar you would probably find this recent (made on June 23rd) interview with the featurette's director Christian Gossett here:
http://www.gandtshow.com/episodes/gntSLChristianGossett.mp3
^^^
It's pretty candid and eye opening. So yeah, given all the above - it's pretty fair of the Star Trek Fan Film community to say:
"Thanks a lot, Alec Peters."
Axanar and Alec Peters pretty much deserve everything they've gotten to date.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Doesn't seem to make you stop either, after skimming by all the deleted posts you left behind.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Yeah, I really wonder what the context of all that could've possibly been...
You're attributing malice to a company defending as it must it's own intellectual property, because they've tanked a project you personally wanted. It is senseless to think that a company wants to alienate its own customer base. The people who feel most alienated here were not customers, because they were pursuing a non-CBS copy of a CBS product. CBS is rightfully bringing those people back into the fold of their product with these rules.