So I want to recreate the USS Vengeance...

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  • kodachikuno
    kodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    When ya think about it tho... all the ships we see in JJtrek have cannons and CRF boff ability slotted
  • saurializard
    saurializard Member Posts: 4,229 Arc User
    When ya think about it tho... all the ships we see in JJtrek have cannons and CRF boff ability slotted
    More like a built-in, permanent CRF version, like the one from the Tempest. Except that one time when the JJprise used CSV to shoot down torpedoes.
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  • kodachikuno
    kodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    When ya think about it tho... all the ships we see in JJtrek have cannons and CRF boff ability slotted
    More like a built-in, permanent CRF version, like the one from the Tempest. Except that one time when the JJprise used CSV to shoot down torpedoes.

    ahh true true... forgot that scene
  • mustrumridcully0
    mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,958 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    I wonder if people have revisited single cannon/turret builds now that we have beams and cannons with the same range drop off and long-range targeting. That might mimic the looks of the AlternateUniverse ships quite well. Especally cannon broadsides.
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  • markhawkman
    markhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    I ponder it periodically. :p
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  • saurializard
    saurializard Member Posts: 4,229 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    I wonder if people have revisited single cannon/turret builds now that we have beams and cannons with the same range drop off and long-range targeting. That might mimic the looks of the AlternateUniverse ships quite well. Especally cannon broadsides.
    I tried. I didn't really check about the usefulness, but there is one problem that makes it ugly to look at:

    Unlike dual cannons and beam arrays, there is only one or two "visual slots" per facing for omni-directional weapons like the Borg cutting beam, turrets and omni-beams. And since there is no FAW equivalent (CSV still aims in your current target direction), it makes all bolts start from the same point and that makes it quite lame to look at. So, no, you can' have your ship become like:

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  • tom61sto
    tom61sto Member Posts: 3,453 Arc User
    I wonder if people have revisited single cannon/turret builds now that we have beams and cannons with the same range drop off and long-range targeting. That might mimic the looks of the AlternateUniverse ships quite well. Especally cannon broadsides.
    I tried. I didn't really check about the usefulness, but there is one problem that makes it ugly to look at:

    Unlike dual cannons and beam arrays, there is only one or two "visual slots" per facing for omni-directional weapons like the Borg cutting beam, turrets and omni-beams. And since there is no FAW equivalent (CSV still aims in your current target direction), it makes all bolts start from the same point and that makes it quite lame to look at. So, no, you can' have your ship become like:

    I've done a single cannon T6 D'Deridex build, and it works fairly decently now, compared to being effectively 'hard mode' prior to the Skill/range change. FAW is still more DPS numbers in target rich environments, but you can definitely hold your own now, at least with a decent amount of turnrate buffs fitted to a D'D (which won't be needed as much on an Avenger). The limited hardpoint thing is actually a plus in the D'D's case, seeing as how it works like that in canon.

    You can get a bit more 'lot's of firepower' look by grabbing Voth AP cannons and turrets, as they shoot two parallel bolts from the same emitter. Not sure on the cost of these, though, and the DPS they do isn't as good standard AP (they have proc to reduce enemy damage output instead of more CrtD innate). Oh, and they bind to char, so the few of these I have are on chars without an Avenger (the DHCs looks nice on a Mogh, though).
  • diabolical91
    diabolical91 Member Posts: 194 Arc User
    i'm seeing more an more people copy my ship -_- not sure I like it or should be flattered
  • tom61sto
    tom61sto Member Posts: 3,453 Arc User
    i'm seeing more an more people copy my ship -_- not sure I like it or should be flattered

    Seeing your previous posts, I'm thinking you should go with 'flattered'.

    Ex.:
    so not gonna go with the t6 cruiser like mine?
    aww mine wasn't in the top3 :/ oh well


  • nikeix
    nikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    Today was a good day (to buy!) :smiley:
  • tom61sto
    tom61sto Member Posts: 3,453 Arc User
    nikeix wrote: »
    Today was a good day (to buy!) :smiley:

    Lol.

    Kinda makes this thread redundant, though, as the launch point is "Just musing with how to come closest to this beast in STO" and a pic of the Vengeance. How close is to simply buy it, however that much costs. Lockbox tied is likely, just where it falls in the hierarchy is the question. Lobi, standard high prize, or super high prize instead (like the Na'Kuhl Battle Cruiser and Herald Vonph)? BTW, I wouldn't trust the 1 Post poster.

    Also, I wonder what the layout will be, it's not like Cryptic leaked that in a Twitter post.
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  • nikeix
    nikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    Well, I have a pretty good idea what the layout will be, so now I'm just doing prep work. I'm thinking I'll try the full Counter-Command ship parts (deflector, impulse, shield, warp core). After putting every ship set into a grid and comparing them, I think that set has the best all around offensive benefit for a hybrid energy/torps build. I also still need to get a few fighter traits for the captain I'm planning to give a Vengeance to. I also need ot save up fleet cridits as I'm going to want ot upgrade the hanger pets ASAP.

    Yeah, just getting a purpose-made Vengeance is a little less involved than trying to kit-bash it from other ships, but it's given me a new appreciation for a number of hulls I hadn't looked at fore a while so it was still a good journey. And I think I'll enjoy the destination quite a bit :).
  • saurializard
    saurializard Member Posts: 4,229 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    nikeix wrote: »
    Well, I have a pretty good idea what the layout will be
    Shhh, don't forget the Temporal and the Leak Prime Directives! We're not allowed to talk about the Fed T6 Scimitar-like. :tongue:
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  • nikeix
    nikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    *shrug* They posted it themselves. That's pretty plainly it in that picture. Unless you know of another ship with temporal seating and an Intelligence Ship skills panel :).
  • rattler2
    rattler2 Member Posts: 55,529 Community Moderator
    Even if we get an actual Vengeance... would be interesting to see how she does against the Vengeance mockups that were made in this thread.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • nikeix
    nikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    Its gonna be pretty head-to-head I think - The Arbiter is no joke. The Vengeance will have some new-fangled seating, but the Arbiter has a true full cloak (if you own the right console).

    Looking at the picture more closely you can also see it has a 5/3 weapons layout and carrier commands (for the sentries).
  • rattler2
    rattler2 Member Posts: 55,529 Community Moderator
    Well... if we don't bring in the special spec seating and just use the basic Tac/Engie/Sci abilities... might be more of an even fight.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • tom61sto
    tom61sto Member Posts: 3,453 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    nikeix wrote: »
    Well, I have a pretty good idea what the layout will be, so now I'm just doing prep work. I'm thinking I'll try the full Counter-Command ship parts (deflector, impulse, shield, warp core). After putting every ship set into a grid and comparing them, I think that set has the best all around offensive benefit for a hybrid energy/torps build. I also still need to get a few fighter traits for the captain I'm planning to give a Vengeance to. I also need ot save up fleet cridits as I'm going to want ot upgrade the hanger pets ASAP.

    Yeah, just getting a purpose-made Vengeance is a little less involved than trying to kit-bash it from other ships, but it's given me a new appreciation for a number of hulls I hadn't looked at fore a while so it was still a good journey. And I think I'll enjoy the destination quite a bit :).

    The CC main set is more focused on movement and removing debuffs to movement than damage. Unless the Vengeance ends up a slow boat, and I'm hoping at least on par with the Avenger for movement, I'd go with other parts, even if you keep the deflector. Most people going heavy torps go with the CC deflector and then KHG/AMACO for Shields and Engines for the 25% Torp damage (Cat. 1, like a Tac console). If you're heavier on Energy Weapons, you might go that Deflector and then either Nukara Engines and Shields for it's energy damage boost (much larger than it looks, as it's Cat. 2), or go with the Iconian Core, Engines and Shields which has a stacking energy damage buff.

    Now the secondary Ordinance set, that can give a very nice damage boost to Phaser and Disruptor. I'm guessing 'Kelvin Universe' Phasers will likely be part of the Lockbox (or maybe mission rewards?), so that buff could be well used. Combine the Tac console from the mission Surface Tension and the Reputation Universal console, and you wouldn't need to change any hardpoints. The set damage boost is bigger than it first appears, being 'bonus damage' or Category 2, where you add up all sources of Cat. 2 and just multiply your current applicable damage (Phaser/Disruptor for Ordinance set, all energy for Nukara) without them. 107.5% for just this set, or 110% for this set and Nukara together, both which come to a fair bit once you have 3x Spire consoles in addition to the set ones.
    nikeix wrote: »
    Its gonna be pretty head-to-head I think - The Arbiter is no joke. The Vengeance will have some new-fangled seating, but the Arbiter has a true full cloak (if you own the right console).

    Looking at the picture more closely you can also see it has a 5/3 weapons layout and carrier commands (for the sentries).

    Look at the power bar, there's standard cloak for the ship pictured, which makes sense given all the full Intel ships have innate cloak (standard all the way to Enhanced depending on ship/faction). Avenger has to use a console for standard cloak.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Well... if we don't bring in the special spec seating and just use the basic Tac/Engie/Sci abilities... might be more of an even fight.

    More even, yes, but keep in mind that Dreadnought Masteries are offensively focused, whereas the Avenger has mostly defensive (armor and hull points) besides a minor boost to Crit Damage. Hangars can give some extra firepower too.
  • rattler2
    rattler2 Member Posts: 55,529 Community Moderator
    If we eliminate as many variables as we can, then we can see which one's better. Don't use the hanger slot. *shrug*

    Masteries asside, it will most likely come down to player skill ultimately. Masteries and gear can only do so much, and it doesn't make up for lack of skill. Even with all the shiny, it comes down to who's in the Captain's Chair in the end.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • nikeix
    nikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    *sigh* I was actually hoping it wouldn't have a cloak.
  • rattler2
    rattler2 Member Posts: 55,529 Community Moderator
    Cloak optional. Don't have to use it. ^^
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • kodachikuno
    kodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    I have the sneaking suspicion the vengeance wont cloak
  • legendarylycan#5411
    legendarylycan#5411 Member Posts: 36,948 Arc User
    it was designed by section 31...if it DOESN'T, i'll be very surprised​​
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  • nikeix
    nikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    It doesn't cloak in the movie. The design discussions are about it having a low sensor profile all the time not a cloak some of the time. It's already going to be THE deadliest thing in the game... the cloak's unnecessary.

    *shrug* I'd like it to be faithful to the source material rather than faithful to the DPS-meta, but I'll fly it either way.
  • nightken
    nightken Member Posts: 2,808 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    it was designed by section 31...if it DOESN'T, i'll be very surprised​​

    But Kirk hasn't stolen a cloak from the Romulans yet so how would they get one on the Vengeance?

    cause feds need cloak?

    from the leak it looks to be a full intel spec ship with a slight change for the new spec. and thoughit doesn't say it will, intel gets a cloak upgrade and you should know how cryptic is about making feds get their's even if they have to add it later.


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  • legendarylycan#5411
    legendarylycan#5411 Member Posts: 36,948 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    well, considering during kirk's second kobayashi maru attempt (the one where he cheated the shields offline on the klingon cruisers) mccoy specifically mentions additional cruisers DECLOAKING...so clearly, the klingons either developed it themselves in ARTrek, they traded or stole it from the romulans earlier than prime, or they reverse-engineered it from the narada

    so section 31 probably snatched one off the klingons​​
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    "Curiosity is bad! It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed...and more importantly, it makes you poor!"
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    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
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  • hyefather
    hyefather Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
    Dude, just wait a few months. JJ verse is coming soon. You can either buy the vengence or try to win it. We all know for a FACT Cryptic is going to put that ship in Doff packs or something thats gonna cost lots of monies. Anyways, it will be here before Christmas for sure. TBH though I want nero's ship. I love the adaptive/borg ships and it will go great as a 3 piece set. Who knows, may be here sooner than you think.
  • rattler2
    rattler2 Member Posts: 55,529 Community Moderator
    well, considering during kirk's second kobayashi maru attempt (the one where he cheated the shields offline on the klingon cruisers) mccoy specifically mentions additional cruisers DECLOAKING...so clearly, the klingons either developed it themselves in ARTrek, they traded or stole it from the romulans earlier than prime, or they reverse-engineered it from the narada

    so section 31 probably snatched one off the klingons​​


    Don't think the Narada had a cloak. She was a mining ship. Civilian. No reason to have a cloak. My vote is that the Klingons jacked it from the native Romulans who found out about the Narada and tried to steal it for themselves.

    Also... it was his third attempt.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • legendarylycan#5411
    legendarylycan#5411 Member Posts: 36,948 Arc User
    it was his second ONSCREEN attempt - on screen is all that matters, remember?​​
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    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."

    "Curiosity is bad! It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed...and more importantly, it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.