I don't understand. The past year has seen the introduction of various 3-faction-packs for almost all new ships. All the mission content is written so that it works for all three existing factions.
What else can anyone want? Why would anyone complain after a year of getting more stuff to buy than ever?
because:
1. it seems that time is now over
2. it meant we didn't get any standalone ships at all. everything is thrown in a pack with fed ships. the same can not be said for feds,
3. and that fact storywise were treated even worse then before.
anyone else giot anything?
How many FED and KDF ships were part of the Legacy of Romulus Pack?
They were introducing an entirely new faction then, not adding an alternate leveling track to the faction that already had more of everything to begin with.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I don't understand. The past year has seen the introduction of various 3-faction-packs for almost all new ships. All the mission content is written so that it works for all three existing factions.
What else can anyone want? Why would anyone complain after a year of getting more stuff to buy than ever?
because:
1. it seems that time is now over
2. it meant we didn't get any standalone ships at all. everything is thrown in a pack with fed ships. the same can not be said for feds,
3. and that fact storywise were treated even worse then before.
anyone else giot anything?
How many FED and KDF ships were part of the Legacy of Romulus Pack?
All of them? Up to T4 anyway.... Romulans came with this weird thing that they were /not/ a full faction. To "make up for this" it was incorporated into their storyline that they were shoehorned into RedvBlue and were given access to chosen faction ships. This is something Rivera was adamant would not happen to this TOS faction, that it would be "complete."
It's a slap in the face to Romulans, especially with the recent FE because it proves, once again, they have the assets to MAKE Roms a full faction they just, and continue to, whinge about it being too hard or that they're understaffed while cheerleading that they're making more money than ever.
And yes KDF did get one thing out of LoR.... an actual, basic storyline. Problems was that it was NEVER marketed and barely mentioned in any of the various interviews that were done at the time. It was good enough(Bread can be quite tasty when you're half-starved) that the KDF hoped they'd actually get... you know... more story content.... like cleaning up the rest of the Klingon arc.... making the FEs flow more naturally Klingon when being taken with them instead of replacing starfleet with Klingon and force feeding "honor" every chance they can get to make us do the thing.
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
I don't understand. The past year has seen the introduction of various 3-faction-packs for almost all new ships. All the mission content is written so that it works for all three existing factions.
What else can anyone want? Why would anyone complain after a year of getting more stuff to buy than ever?
because:
1. it seems that time is now over
2. it meant we didn't get any standalone ships at all. everything is thrown in a pack with fed ships. the same can not be said for feds,
3. and that fact storywise were treated even worse then before.
anyone else giot anything?
How many FED and KDF ships were part of the Legacy of Romulus Pack?
All of them? Up to T4 anyway.... Romulans came with this weird thing that they were /not/ a full faction. To "make up for this" it was incorporated into their storyline that they were shoehorned into RedvBlue and were given access to chosen faction ships. This is something Rivera was adamant would not happen to this TOS faction, that it would be "complete."
Are you sure you understand him correctly?
As I see it, the difference between RR and TOS is that TOS is "aligned" with the Federation only and presumably will have access to all endgame ships of the Federation. It will still "only" have a starting storyline similar to the Romulans and then, and at 50+ it will lead to the existing and future faction agnostic content. (There is no faction-exclusive content at 50+).
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I don't understand. The past year has seen the introduction of various 3-faction-packs for almost all new ships. All the mission content is written so that it works for all three existing factions.
What else can anyone want? Why would anyone complain after a year of getting more stuff to buy than ever?
because:
1. it seems that time is now over
2. it meant we didn't get any standalone ships at all. everything is thrown in a pack with fed ships. the same can not be said for feds,
3. and that fact storywise were treated even worse then before.
anyone else giot anything?
How many FED and KDF ships were part of the Legacy of Romulus Pack?
All of them? Up to T4 anyway.... Romulans came with this weird thing that they were /not/ a full faction. To "make up for this" it was incorporated into their storyline that they were shoehorned into RedvBlue and were given access to chosen faction ships. This is something Rivera was adamant would not happen to this TOS faction, that it would be "complete."
Are you sure you understand him correctly?
As I see it, the difference between RR and TOS is that TOS is "aligned" with the Federation only and presumably will have access to all endgame ships of the Federation. It will still "only" have a starting storyline similar to the Romulans and then, and at 50+ it will lead to the existing and future faction agnostic content. (There is no faction-exclusive content at 50+).
Maybe I did misunderstand him, maybe not. What he was adamant about, though, was that this was a Federation faction... there would be no joining the KDF or RR.... That means the storyline has to be fleshed out to a certain point before joining into the normal story progression. This would include FEs and End-game content. He was also so obfuscatory on the subject of TOS-themed fleet holdings that it seemed like he was trying cover for the fact that they were, at least, trying to make them... Whether or not they would be implemented is a different story.
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
Of specific interest is this:
13. New captains will only be able to pick races that make sense for TOS era, so no Bajoran, Cardassians, etc. Also, Klingons and Romulans will not be playable then because TOS was mostly about the Federation (and Cryptic ain’t got time for that).
Sounds like we ain't getting squat, and they're saying we're not getting squat.
@patrickngo -It isn't what Geko can handle, it's what the Dev Team can do in the available time. Anyone can figure out how to shoehorn the KDF/RR into the content, but luckily, they realize that the time to make such a storyline isn't realistic.
Yes, I said it: Your expectations are not realistic. Period.
@polecat42 - Remind me of how many players were able to take either their Fed or their KDF toons through the storyline created for the RR? Oh, that's right, ZERO. Yes, the announced expansion is Fed-centric, but so was every Start Trek TV show and every Start Trek movie to date, and the expansion is designed to celebrate that IP, and attract fans of that IP. Not your head-canon IP, whatever that might be. If you don't like that your big, tough, Klingon main can't play the new content, I suggest you act like a big, tough Klingon, suck it up, and create a new toon, just like anyone else, KDF, RR, and even Fed, will have to do when it is released.
Yes, I said it: Suck it up, buttercup.
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
I don't understand. The past year has seen the introduction of various 3-faction-packs for almost all new ships. All the mission content is written so that it works for all three existing factions.
What else can anyone want? Why would anyone complain after a year of getting more stuff to buy than ever?
because:
1. it seems that time is now over
2. it meant we didn't get any standalone ships at all. everything is thrown in a pack with fed ships. the same can not be said for feds,
3. and that fact storywise were treated even worse then before.
anyone else giot anything?
How many FED and KDF ships were part of the Legacy of Romulus Pack?
How many more LoR packs would they have sold if it wasn't faction-restricted?
How many more Temporal Agent packs would they sell if it wasn't faction-restricted?
Wow, this degenerated fast into name calling nonsense...
"There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. The words of Ten Bears carries the same iron of life and death. It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life... or death. It shall be life." - Ten Bears (Will Sampson)
I don't understand. The past year has seen the introduction of various 3-faction-packs for almost all new ships. All the mission content is written so that it works for all three existing factions.
What else can anyone want? Why would anyone complain after a year of getting more stuff to buy than ever?
because:
1. it seems that time is now over
2. it meant we didn't get any standalone ships at all. everything is thrown in a pack with fed ships. the same can not be said for feds,
3. and that fact storywise were treated even worse then before.
anyone else giot anything?
How many FED and KDF ships were part of the Legacy of Romulus Pack?
How many more LoR packs would they have sold if it wasn't faction-restricted?
How many more Temporal Agent packs would they sell if it wasn't faction-restricted?
Would you consider a Romulan D'Deridex Warbird or a Daedulus Science Vessel available to Klingons as KDF support?
If you do, the Oroborus and the Eternal are at least in.
But we have definitely people that do not count them.
They might be able to maximize ship sales if they don't lock ships to factions, but that will still not be generally considered to support any faction other then the one the ship is based on.
Also, it might be in Cryptic's interest that ships are generally not universally useable and locked to factions. It means people need to make alts to access them, and each alt will need a seperate ship (and all other kinds of gimmicks), instead of everyone using the same ship.
And that's just talking about ship support.
Playing the Romulan or TOS starter arc on a Klingon would not really make sense.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I don't understand. The past year has seen the introduction of various 3-faction-packs for almost all new ships. All the mission content is written so that it works for all three existing factions.
What else can anyone want? Why would anyone complain after a year of getting more stuff to buy than ever?
because:
1. it seems that time is now over
2. it meant we didn't get any standalone ships at all. everything is thrown in a pack with fed ships. the same can not be said for feds,
3. and that fact storywise were treated even worse then before.
anyone else giot anything?
How many FED and KDF ships were part of the Legacy of Romulus Pack?
How many more LoR packs would they have sold if it wasn't faction-restricted?
How many more Temporal Agent packs would they sell if it wasn't faction-restricted?
Would you consider a Romulan D'Deridex Warbird or a Daedulus Science Vessel available to Klingons as KDF support?
If you do, the Oroborus and the Eternal are at least in.
But we have definitely people that do not count them.
They might be able to maximize ship sales if they don't lock ships to factions, but that will still not be generally considered to support any faction other then the one the ship is based on.
The Ouroboros and Eternal are in. I'd prefer everything else to be, too. At this point I consider the factions to be pretty much a failed experiment that the game should distance itself from. They work well as origin stories (up to the point where their unique story content ends), but shouldn't limit the player's options at endgame.
Asking for equal support for non-Fed factions at this point is a fool's errand.
Also, it might be in Cryptic's interest that ships are generally not universally useable and locked to factions. It means people need to make alts to access them, and each alt will need a seperate ship (and all other kinds of gimmicks), instead of everyone using the same ship.
That's circular reasoning. People need to make alts to use the ships, and then need ships to use the alts. Except they don't. They can just skip ships they can't use on the character(s) they want. Fed players, even serious ship collectors, certainly aren't going to run out of ships to buy that easily. And thus we get "Klingon and Romulan ships don't sell."
Players can see the faction-specific part of the story missions with the free ships, and then delete the alt, replace it with another Fed, leave it abandoned or just use it to farm dilithium. People who don't want to play multiple characters or multiple factions, won't.
Playing the Romulan or TOS starter arc on a Klingon would not really make sense.
As a holodeck simulation it would. Not that it really matters. The starter arcs are the one thing about the factions that actually works well as it is.
If you're a fed-romulan you can use 7/11 of the ships.
Cryptic has stated making single ships for KDF or ROM (17% and 13% of the player base respectively) is highly unprofitable for them so making ship packs is the best way to go so they can give everyone ships and still make the money they need. I would point out that many of these ship packs contain unique ships that aren't just copy and paste of each other, they are simply bundled together.
Sorry your special snowflake sensibilities are offended but this is just basic math, It is a compromise that has benefitted the two smaller factions GREATLY however. You should appreciate just how many more ships are made now for KDF and ROM since DR, it is a significant improvement.
The temporal ships are like the lockbox ones just from the C-Store and this is actually a really great idea because it allowed them to make a T6 science ship for you guys without risking a lot of money. If it weren't for those ships crossfaction nature you'd still be begging for a T6 science ship. When they see the sales numbers will determine if they ever make faction specific science ships again though, so buy the TRIBBLE out of the Eternal class.
Cryptic is really trying to compromise here between making people happy and making a profit. There is only so far they can go though, a little appreciation for the great strides they've made towards better faction treatment might inspire them to go even further. Constant whining and ungatefulness will not.
y'know what's funny, Sam?
out in the world outside of STO, Klingon fans spend more $$$ than any other part or portion of trekdom.
It's true. they do. see, you can do a competent cosplay of pretty much every variation of Starfleet uniform for under a hundred bucks if you've got a sewing machine and a goodwill store nearby. Halloween costumes too. You add a little more if you want 'vulcan ears' because, y'know, latex stuff.
You only see Starfleet fans at Star Trek conventions.
On the flipside-it's hundreds of dollars and nearly as many hours, to put together a typical convention-grade Klingon outfit, much of which can't be done with a cheapo sewing machine thanks to needing to use stiff, dense materials. Further, the latex isn't optional unless you're doing TOS klingon (which is, admittedly cheaper-but you still have to locate gold lame'.)
Places to see Klingons:
Anime Conventions
General Sci-Fi Conventions
Trek Conventions
Comics conventions.
STAR WARS conventions.
Can you DIG that TRIBBLE?
Klingon fans outside STO have put on whole translations of Shakespeare plays translated to th'lingan Hol. (Klingon speech) with costumes. This TRIBBLE is not cheap.
The Klingon Language is accepted as a viable qualification for U.S. army linguists-because more people speak it, than the DoD financed Esperanto...worldwide.
SOG knives will gladly sell you a D'kTag (Klingon Dagger, still in their catalogue as of 2013...), and you can usually find multiple Batt'leths in dealer rooms at Sci fi conventions, anime conventions, comics conventions, GUN SHOWS and online from various manufacturers at prices usually in the 300 to 1000 dollar range.
(yes, Gun and Knife shows, you know, those places full of "Rednecks" and outdoorsman types that usually aren't viewed as even fans.)
you're talking about a fandom that everyone but Cryptic seems to make money making stuff for.
Doesn't that strike you as a little odd? Maybe...unprofitable because...the guy running the development team doesn't give a flying TRIBBLE?
Inside STO;
"Legacy of Romulus" was one of their most Financially profitable years at Cryptic-this they announced. That 13% of player-characters kept the servers lit and the lights on and let them temporarily expand their staff. It also paid the costs for Delta Rising while it was in development.
When they released the 1-20 for KDF, it was buried at the back of the site. many players who weren't new didn't even know the missions existed until Delta Recruits.
True fact.
Didn't TRIBBLE KNOW it existed.
some of them with KDF mains they'd had to level a fed to gen up under the old system.
That's how well it was promoted.
The claim that KDF is 'unprofitable' comes for the abject failure to sell of the Varanus, and the Bortasque when they were released-at the time of their release the Varanus was directly compared to the 'free' Fed Long-range-science vessel, and legitimately found to be substandard in all ways save hull points. in every aspect, inferior. Naturally people didn't buy it.
The Bort, at release, was absolutely the opposite of how a Battlecruiser in the game could be defined as performing, when compared to existing BC's of the time both in terms of quality (buggy animations, buggy consoles that often did not work) and usefulness (literally outperformed in the battlecruiser role by the free Negh'var, nevermind lower tier offerings. you can't apply heavy cannons if you can't get the nose to line up-and the Bort couldn't.) It was, in short, the developmentally disabled, special needs, overweight little brother of the Oddy. Naturally, once word circulated in the KDF community of the time, they looked at the price, and said, collectively, 'No thank you.'
both of those were built to fail.
Particularly when it comes to sales.
Two years of nothing in terms of development for the KDF faction didn't help matters in terms of building customer confidence, either.
Delta Rising Operations Pack
Came across as a full-on mission statement. "You're not important enough for us to bother" the KDF got ONE full-spec ship (the Qib) and ship-powers that neither worked together, nor (in the case of Overwhelming force) worked at all for the first three weeks after it went live.
The pack itself was designed with the intent that KDF and Rom characters would be relegated to Dilithium and Doff generation duties to support Fed characters. every aspect of it practically rubbed our noses in how little we mattered to Cryptic's developers.
the reaction at the time was extreme enough to contribute to the replacement of an executive producer, and for a while we got 'what everyone else gets' and no more in the era of the 3-faction packs.
but that era is clearly in the past, and things have returned to that mindset. KDF and Romulan players 'don't matter' and 'aren't profitable'...and why would they be, after six years of neglect, passive-aggressive hostility from the lead developer, having their specific faction elements ported Fedside wholesale, usually in the improved form?
(First done with consoles-the lockbox tech exchanges only stopped once they'd run out of useful KDF consoles to give the Feds... but also carriers, which began the game as KDF exclusives, Battlecruisers, which Feds got the improved version of in the store with the Avenger while KDF got a raincheck that lasted three months...)
now, not saying it's a completely hostile environment, after all, neither KDF nor Romulan players have had the kind of outright open hostility that PvP players got, but it's only 'just' for KDF=we're at the bottom of the list, but we're at least still thought about once in a blue moon...
But be sure you understand;
Klingon trek fans are the most ridiculous overspenders in the larger Trek community, and most of them aren't uneducated low-tier service workers-they're usually a bit 'up there' with money to spend. if Cryptic can't make money off them, it's probably Cryptic's fault, not the fanbase.
The sixteen percenters (used to be eighteen) and the thirteen percenters collectively come out about a third of the total-if you can't make a profit off 30% of your customers, you've done something catastrophically wrong somewhere. People get fired for those kind of things.
BRAVO !
That is the most truthful and honest assessment of the KDF 'situation' I've read on these forums in years.
Most of my fleet has already gone, we've been a KDF organization since the starfleet command days, and I'm the late addition in the STO branch. I was invited over in S6 by the guys I played with years earlier on Dynaverse, as Klingons. They've been here @ STO since the beginning. The bleeding began around S7, and hasn't stopped. Few of them even considered playing their FED alts, tho back then there wasn't a choice as he only way to unlock the KDF was to be fed for 20 missions, and many like myself deleted the fed alt as soon as 'our' faction was accessible.
We started with nothing in STO except ridicule from the devs, but finally got some scraps when the ROM's got their faction (LOL, thats a joke). They've since reverted to their previous behavior of neglect. They claim it's a simple matter of numbers. They've made it clear (again) they don't care about anyone but the feds. They don't want us here. They don't want our money. The notion that KDF and ROM's shouldn't give up on STO is ridiculous.
For all the purists (I have a main toon for each faction and play them all regularly, plus 1 alt for every faction over 50[other games to play]) you are just going to have to deal with 1 fact that keeps more content being shoveled your way.
Anything not federation DOES NOT SELL VERY WELL. That is the overwhelming fact of life. Since KDF/ROM doesn't sell, they focus more of their time on what does.
Remember kids, it's not PWE/Cryptic's job to put out an awesome game equal for all. It's their job to make MONEY. For profit business. So they make an ADDICTING game, which happens to be pretty good, but that's merely a biproduct.
Till KDF and ROM sales start going up, you won't get squat. I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm just pointing at the writing on the wall many hardcore KDF and ROM players simply can't handle.
THAT is the very reason many are leaving the game. They don't understand that creating junk for their underserved portion of the playerbase doesn't sell. Their circular logic hasn't changed, as well the results don't change either.
THAT is the very reason many are leaving the game. They don't understand that creating junk for their underserved portion of the playerbase doesn't sell. Their circular logic hasn't changed, as well the results don't change either.
It is what is. I'm not defending it nor am I call it a good idea. I'm just stating that the imperatives that drive this company and any other is what brings in the $$$ for a nice quarterly earning statement. They consider both factions not worth the time or effort for money outside of clones of fed ships like the Flagships. Or the Defiant package.
Yes asinine as hell but that's the short and skinny of it.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
THAT is the very reason many are leaving the game. They don't understand that creating junk for their underserved portion of the playerbase doesn't sell. Their circular logic hasn't changed, as well the results don't change either.
It is what is. I'm not defending it nor am I call it a good idea. I'm just stating that the imperatives that drive this company and any other is what brings in the $$$ for a nice quarterly earning statement. They consider both factions not worth the time or effort for money outside of clones of fed ships like the Flagships. Or the Defiant package.
Yes asinine as hell but that's the short and skinny of it.
As you say- it is what it is. Non-feds will still leave, feds will stay and spend, and the devs will wonder why the game is so 1 sided.
*edit: actually they won't, they don't care enough to see beyond next quarters profits.
THAT is the very reason many are leaving the game. They don't understand that creating junk for their underserved portion of the playerbase doesn't sell. Their circular logic hasn't changed, as well the results don't change either.
It is what is. I'm not defending it nor am I call it a good idea. I'm just stating that the imperatives that drive this company and any other is what brings in the $$$ for a nice quarterly earning statement. They consider both factions not worth the time or effort for money outside of clones of fed ships like the Flagships. Or the Defiant package.
Yes asinine as hell but that's the short and skinny of it.
well imperitives and the gecko's personal hate for klinks
I'm curious to see how well the Klingon faction and their pointy ear quasi faction allies will do on console with a fresh start and a new player base. Maybe they just might get more love if they are more successful there and don't have the baggage of how the KDF started at launch on PC.
I'm curious to see how well the Klingon faction and their pointy ear quasi faction allies will do on console with a fresh start and a new player base. Maybe they just might get more love if they are more successful there and don't have the baggage of how the KDF started at launch on PC.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was only one faction on the console version of the game.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
The kind of baggage I'm talking about is the KDF being a incomplete faction , that was stuck in one little corner of the map with pvp the only primary gameplay. STO lost many KDF players the first year, the faction would not as big as the FED side but there was a lot players organizing big KDF fleets before launch and the faction as whole would be a much better place today if it started with the content it has now. Consoles will have fresh audience that might chose the RED side more so now because there actually stuff to do.
Did you actually read the news blog? Like the part where they redid the entire UI code so that it WILL work on console controllers? Among other info there
ONLY way I see it working with the console port, is to cut the minority factions and PvP entirely, remove mentions of them, fill the gaps with buymoregrind, and market to console as Fed/PvE only. anything more and they're dealing with the major un-repaired defects in the game, starting with faction imbalance, PvP..everything, and the unfortunate condition where some careers are completely useless in the game while others are totally the go-to for every situation.
That's what they should do with the PC version, too.
2. Console version will be released as a single-faction, pure PvE game.
3. Console version will retain multiplayer raids, but will not retain career differences-everyone will be a Tac.
4. Fed levels will start with AoY/The old series federation, jump to 2410, and story missions will stretch to level 60 since the new build doesn't have to cope with multiple factions or careers, the UI will be streamlined, the mission set will also be streamlined to fit a 1-60 leveling progression, so underperforming missions and sidelines will be removed temporarily then reinserted as paid or ground for content.
That would be pure awesome.
6. Console players will get a different c-store that doesn't include Klingon or Romulan goods (since those don't sell per Dev statements).
Or just sell them to Feds. Non-Fed goods sell just fine when they aren't artificially restricted to a minority customer base. Just look at lockboxes.
7. Additional factions will be added after release, behind a leveling or paywall, and not until the bugs are removed and things streamlined, but PvP will still be left off-Cryptic doesn't have the ability to handle PvP. They just don't. It's something they never should have tried because nobody on-staff has a TRIBBLE clue and nobody in management had a clue how to retain the people who did have a clue.
I sure hope not. Adding factions was a mistake the first time, no point repeating it.
In short, it'll be a totally different game, with a major difference that if it does relatively well, the console version will be supported while this version dies.
In more likelyhood any changes that succeeded with a console version would be backported to the PC version as well.
Well, I was reading STO Reddit...and news out of the FEDCON in Germany states: they have added Orions to the list of characters available to the TOS/Fed faction.
(Went back and re-read that STO Reddit thread...and I misinterpreted what was said.
If you're a fed-romulan you can use 7/11 of the ships.
Cryptic has stated making single ships for KDF or ROM (17% and 13% of the player base respectively) is highly unprofitable for them so making ship packs is the best way to go so they can give everyone ships and still make the money they need. I would point out that many of these ship packs contain unique ships that aren't just copy and paste of each other, they are simply bundled together.
Sorry your special snowflake sensibilities are offended but this is just basic math, It is a compromise that has benefitted the two smaller factions GREATLY however. You should appreciate just how many more ships are made now for KDF and ROM since DR, it is a significant improvement.
The temporal ships are like the lockbox ones just from the C-Store and this is actually a really great idea because it allowed them to make a T6 science ship for you guys without risking a lot of money. If it weren't for those ships crossfaction nature you'd still be begging for a T6 science ship. When they see the sales numbers will determine if they ever make faction specific science ships again though, so buy the TRIBBLE out of the Eternal class.
Cryptic is really trying to compromise here between making people happy and making a profit. There is only so far they can go though, a little appreciation for the great strides they've made towards better faction treatment might inspire them to go even further. Constant whining and ungatefulness will not.
y'know what's funny, Sam?
out in the world outside of STO, Klingon fans spend more $$$ than any other part or portion of trekdom.
It's true. they do. see, you can do a competent cosplay of pretty much every variation of Starfleet uniform for under a hundred bucks if you've got a sewing machine and a goodwill store nearby. Halloween costumes too. You add a little more if you want 'vulcan ears' because, y'know, latex stuff.
You only see Starfleet fans at Star Trek conventions.
On the flipside-it's hundreds of dollars and nearly as many hours, to put together a typical convention-grade Klingon outfit, much of which can't be done with a cheapo sewing machine thanks to needing to use stiff, dense materials. Further, the latex isn't optional unless you're doing TOS klingon (which is, admittedly cheaper-but you still have to locate gold lame'.)
Places to see Klingons:
Anime Conventions
General Sci-Fi Conventions
Trek Conventions
Comics conventions.
STAR WARS conventions.
Can you DIG that TRIBBLE?
Klingon fans outside STO have put on whole translations of Shakespeare plays translated to th'lingan Hol. (Klingon speech) with costumes. This TRIBBLE is not cheap.
The Klingon Language is accepted as a viable qualification for U.S. army linguists-because more people speak it, than the DoD financed Esperanto...worldwide.
SOG knives will gladly sell you a D'kTag (Klingon Dagger, still in their catalogue as of 2013...), and you can usually find multiple Batt'leths in dealer rooms at Sci fi conventions, anime conventions, comics conventions, GUN SHOWS and online from various manufacturers at prices usually in the 300 to 1000 dollar range.
(yes, Gun and Knife shows, you know, those places full of "Rednecks" and outdoorsman types that usually aren't viewed as even fans.)
you're talking about a fandom that everyone but Cryptic seems to make money making stuff for.
Doesn't that strike you as a little odd? Maybe...unprofitable because...the guy running the development team doesn't give a flying TRIBBLE?
Inside STO;
"Legacy of Romulus" was one of their most Financially profitable years at Cryptic-this they announced. That 13% of player-characters kept the servers lit and the lights on and let them temporarily expand their staff. It also paid the costs for Delta Rising while it was in development.
When they released the 1-20 for KDF, it was buried at the back of the site. many players who weren't new didn't even know the missions existed until Delta Recruits.
True fact.
Didn't TRIBBLE KNOW it existed.
some of them with KDF mains they'd had to level a fed to gen up under the old system.
That's how well it was promoted.
The claim that KDF is 'unprofitable' comes for the abject failure to sell of the Varanus, and the Bortasque when they were released-at the time of their release the Varanus was directly compared to the 'free' Fed Long-range-science vessel, and legitimately found to be substandard in all ways save hull points. in every aspect, inferior. Naturally people didn't buy it.
The Bort, at release, was absolutely the opposite of how a Battlecruiser in the game could be defined as performing, when compared to existing BC's of the time both in terms of quality (buggy animations, buggy consoles that often did not work) and usefulness (literally outperformed in the battlecruiser role by the free Negh'var, nevermind lower tier offerings. you can't apply heavy cannons if you can't get the nose to line up-and the Bort couldn't.) It was, in short, the developmentally disabled, special needs, overweight little brother of the Oddy. Naturally, once word circulated in the KDF community of the time, they looked at the price, and said, collectively, 'No thank you.'
both of those were built to fail.
Particularly when it comes to sales.
Two years of nothing in terms of development for the KDF faction didn't help matters in terms of building customer confidence, either.
Delta Rising Operations Pack
Came across as a full-on mission statement. "You're not important enough for us to bother" the KDF got ONE full-spec ship (the Qib) and ship-powers that neither worked together, nor (in the case of Overwhelming force) worked at all for the first three weeks after it went live.
The pack itself was designed with the intent that KDF and Rom characters would be relegated to Dilithium and Doff generation duties to support Fed characters. every aspect of it practically rubbed our noses in how little we mattered to Cryptic's developers.
the reaction at the time was extreme enough to contribute to the replacement of an executive producer, and for a while we got 'what everyone else gets' and no more in the era of the 3-faction packs.
but that era is clearly in the past, and things have returned to that mindset. KDF and Romulan players 'don't matter' and 'aren't profitable'...and why would they be, after six years of neglect, passive-aggressive hostility from the lead developer, having their specific faction elements ported Fedside wholesale, usually in the improved form?
(First done with consoles-the lockbox tech exchanges only stopped once they'd run out of useful KDF consoles to give the Feds... but also carriers, which began the game as KDF exclusives, Battlecruisers, which Feds got the improved version of in the store with the Avenger while KDF got a raincheck that lasted three months...)
now, not saying it's a completely hostile environment, after all, neither KDF nor Romulan players have had the kind of outright open hostility that PvP players got, but it's only 'just' for KDF=we're at the bottom of the list, but we're at least still thought about once in a blue moon...
But be sure you understand;
Klingon trek fans are the most ridiculous overspenders in the larger Trek community, and most of them aren't uneducated low-tier service workers-they're usually a bit 'up there' with money to spend. if Cryptic can't make money off them, it's probably Cryptic's fault, not the fanbase.
The sixteen percenters (used to be eighteen) and the thirteen percenters collectively come out about a third of the total-if you can't make a profit off 30% of your customers, you've done something catastrophically wrong somewhere. People get fired for those kind of things.
BRAVO !
That is the most truthful and honest assessment of the KDF 'situation' I've read on these forums in years.
Most of my fleet has already gone, we've been a KDF organization since the starfleet command days, and I'm the late addition in the STO branch. I was invited over in S6 by the guys I played with years earlier on Dynaverse, as Klingons. They've been here @ STO since the beginning. The bleeding began around S7, and hasn't stopped. Few of them even considered playing their FED alts, tho back then there wasn't a choice as he only way to unlock the KDF was to be fed for 20 missions, and many like myself deleted the fed alt as soon as 'our' faction was accessible.
We started with nothing in STO except ridicule from the devs, but finally got some scraps when the ROM's got their faction (LOL, thats a joke). They've since reverted to their previous behavior of neglect. They claim it's a simple matter of numbers. They've made it clear (again) they don't care about anyone but the feds. They don't want us here. They don't want our money. The notion that KDF and ROM's shouldn't give up on STO is ridiculous.
STO has given up on US.
My KDF fleet has no such problems, seems like you picked the wrong people to play with.
Good for you.
Our fleets fed starbase isn't even T1 while the KDF base is almost T5.
Apparently it isn't the people I play with, but the game we picked to play.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
ONLY way I see it working with the console port, is to cut the minority factions and PvP entirely, remove mentions of them, fill the gaps with buymoregrind, and market to console as Fed/PvE only. anything more and they're dealing with the major un-repaired defects in the game, starting with faction imbalance, PvP..everything, and the unfortunate condition where some careers are completely useless in the game while others are totally the go-to for every situation.
That's what they should do with the PC version, too.
2. Console version will be released as a single-faction, pure PvE game.
3. Console version will retain multiplayer raids, but will not retain career differences-everyone will be a Tac.
4. Fed levels will start with AoY/The old series federation, jump to 2410, and story missions will stretch to level 60 since the new build doesn't have to cope with multiple factions or careers, the UI will be streamlined, the mission set will also be streamlined to fit a 1-60 leveling progression, so underperforming missions and sidelines will be removed temporarily then reinserted as paid or ground for content.
That would be pure awesome.
6. Console players will get a different c-store that doesn't include Klingon or Romulan goods (since those don't sell per Dev statements).
Or just sell them to Feds. Non-Fed goods sell just fine when they aren't artificially restricted to a minority customer base. Just look at lockboxes.
7. Additional factions will be added after release, behind a leveling or paywall, and not until the bugs are removed and things streamlined, but PvP will still be left off-Cryptic doesn't have the ability to handle PvP. They just don't. It's something they never should have tried because nobody on-staff has a TRIBBLE clue and nobody in management had a clue how to retain the people who did have a clue.
I sure hope not. Adding factions was a mistake the first time, no point repeating it.
In short, it'll be a totally different game, with a major difference that if it does relatively well, the console version will be supported while this version dies.
In more likelyhood any changes that succeeded with a console version would be backported to the PC version as well.
Yup, that would pretty much solve all the problems. Eliminate 30% of the playerbase by removing the KDF/ROM factions, and those who won't play as FED are easily replaced by the new console players. No need for cross faction or non-fed faction specific items or powers, and mission design is streamlined since it's single faction. PvP is already dead so it can't suffer any more damage by STO going pure single-faction PvE. No need for servers either- except for patching.
They should hire you for game design, you're a natural.
Comments
They were introducing an entirely new faction then, not adding an alternate leveling track to the faction that already had more of everything to begin with.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
All of them? Up to T4 anyway.... Romulans came with this weird thing that they were /not/ a full faction. To "make up for this" it was incorporated into their storyline that they were shoehorned into RedvBlue and were given access to chosen faction ships. This is something Rivera was adamant would not happen to this TOS faction, that it would be "complete."
It's a slap in the face to Romulans, especially with the recent FE because it proves, once again, they have the assets to MAKE Roms a full faction they just, and continue to, whinge about it being too hard or that they're understaffed while cheerleading that they're making more money than ever.
And yes KDF did get one thing out of LoR.... an actual, basic storyline. Problems was that it was NEVER marketed and barely mentioned in any of the various interviews that were done at the time. It was good enough(Bread can be quite tasty when you're half-starved) that the KDF hoped they'd actually get... you know... more story content.... like cleaning up the rest of the Klingon arc.... making the FEs flow more naturally Klingon when being taken with them instead of replacing starfleet with Klingon and force feeding "honor" every chance they can get to make us do the thing.
As I see it, the difference between RR and TOS is that TOS is "aligned" with the Federation only and presumably will have access to all endgame ships of the Federation. It will still "only" have a starting storyline similar to the Romulans and then, and at 50+ it will lead to the existing and future faction agnostic content. (There is no faction-exclusive content at 50+).
Maybe I did misunderstand him, maybe not. What he was adamant about, though, was that this was a Federation faction... there would be no joining the KDF or RR.... That means the storyline has to be fleshed out to a certain point before joining into the normal story progression. This would include FEs and End-game content. He was also so obfuscatory on the subject of TOS-themed fleet holdings that it seemed like he was trying cover for the fact that they were, at least, trying to make them... Whether or not they would be implemented is a different story.
Of specific interest is this:
13. New captains will only be able to pick races that make sense for TOS era, so no Bajoran, Cardassians, etc. Also, Klingons and Romulans will not be playable then because TOS was mostly about the Federation (and Cryptic ain’t got time for that).
Sounds like we ain't getting squat, and they're saying we're not getting squat.
Yes, I said it: Your expectations are not realistic. Period.
@polecat42 - Remind me of how many players were able to take either their Fed or their KDF toons through the storyline created for the RR? Oh, that's right, ZERO. Yes, the announced expansion is Fed-centric, but so was every Start Trek TV show and every Start Trek movie to date, and the expansion is designed to celebrate that IP, and attract fans of that IP. Not your head-canon IP, whatever that might be. If you don't like that your big, tough, Klingon main can't play the new content, I suggest you act like a big, tough Klingon, suck it up, and create a new toon, just like anyone else, KDF, RR, and even Fed, will have to do when it is released.
Yes, I said it: Suck it up, buttercup.
How many more Temporal Agent packs would they sell if it wasn't faction-restricted?
Would you consider a Romulan D'Deridex Warbird or a Daedulus Science Vessel available to Klingons as KDF support?
If you do, the Oroborus and the Eternal are at least in.
But we have definitely people that do not count them.
They might be able to maximize ship sales if they don't lock ships to factions, but that will still not be generally considered to support any faction other then the one the ship is based on.
Also, it might be in Cryptic's interest that ships are generally not universally useable and locked to factions. It means people need to make alts to access them, and each alt will need a seperate ship (and all other kinds of gimmicks), instead of everyone using the same ship.
And that's just talking about ship support.
Playing the Romulan or TOS starter arc on a Klingon would not really make sense.
Asking for equal support for non-Fed factions at this point is a fool's errand. That's circular reasoning. People need to make alts to use the ships, and then need ships to use the alts. Except they don't. They can just skip ships they can't use on the character(s) they want. Fed players, even serious ship collectors, certainly aren't going to run out of ships to buy that easily. And thus we get "Klingon and Romulan ships don't sell."
Players can see the faction-specific part of the story missions with the free ships, and then delete the alt, replace it with another Fed, leave it abandoned or just use it to farm dilithium. People who don't want to play multiple characters or multiple factions, won't. As a holodeck simulation it would. Not that it really matters. The starter arcs are the one thing about the factions that actually works well as it is.
BRAVO !
That is the most truthful and honest assessment of the KDF 'situation' I've read on these forums in years.
Most of my fleet has already gone, we've been a KDF organization since the starfleet command days, and I'm the late addition in the STO branch. I was invited over in S6 by the guys I played with years earlier on Dynaverse, as Klingons. They've been here @ STO since the beginning. The bleeding began around S7, and hasn't stopped. Few of them even considered playing their FED alts, tho back then there wasn't a choice as he only way to unlock the KDF was to be fed for 20 missions, and many like myself deleted the fed alt as soon as 'our' faction was accessible.
We started with nothing in STO except ridicule from the devs, but finally got some scraps when the ROM's got their faction (LOL, thats a joke). They've since reverted to their previous behavior of neglect. They claim it's a simple matter of numbers. They've made it clear (again) they don't care about anyone but the feds. They don't want us here. They don't want our money. The notion that KDF and ROM's shouldn't give up on STO is ridiculous.
STO has given up on US.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
THAT is the very reason many are leaving the game. They don't understand that creating junk for their underserved portion of the playerbase doesn't sell. Their circular logic hasn't changed, as well the results don't change either.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
It is what is. I'm not defending it nor am I call it a good idea. I'm just stating that the imperatives that drive this company and any other is what brings in the $$$ for a nice quarterly earning statement. They consider both factions not worth the time or effort for money outside of clones of fed ships like the Flagships. Or the Defiant package.
Yes asinine as hell but that's the short and skinny of it.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
As you say- it is what it is. Non-feds will still leave, feds will stay and spend, and the devs will wonder why the game is so 1 sided.
*edit: actually they won't, they don't care enough to see beyond next quarters profits.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
well imperitives and the gecko's personal hate for klinks
My character Tsin'xing
I wouldn't be surprised if there was only one faction on the console version of the game.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
That would be pure awesome. Or just sell them to Feds. Non-Fed goods sell just fine when they aren't artificially restricted to a minority customer base. Just look at lockboxes. I sure hope not. Adding factions was a mistake the first time, no point repeating it.
In more likelyhood any changes that succeeded with a console version would be backported to the PC version as well.
(Went back and re-read that STO Reddit thread...and I misinterpreted what was said.
The correct Tribble info is here....watch blogs for any updates:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1215338/so-what-species-are-only-for-tos-era)
Not hard to guess the direction they are taking this game, maybe not today....but it is definitely coming. LOL!
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Good for you.
Our fleets fed starbase isn't even T1 while the KDF base is almost T5.
Apparently it isn't the people I play with, but the game we picked to play.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Then just give it up already.
<shrug>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Yup, that would pretty much solve all the problems. Eliminate 30% of the playerbase by removing the KDF/ROM factions, and those who won't play as FED are easily replaced by the new console players. No need for cross faction or non-fed faction specific items or powers, and mission design is streamlined since it's single faction. PvP is already dead so it can't suffer any more damage by STO going pure single-faction PvE. No need for servers either- except for patching.
They should hire you for game design, you're a natural.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG