I think it's too early to make any judgements on the new packs that are being shown. There may yet be a Klingon or Romulan ship thrown in. Can't say for certain, but this was an initial announcement and there will be some time before it actually gets released. Who knows...
As the OP said, anyone that plays predominately Klingon or Romulan has to realize that this is a Starfleet Universe before it's anything else. With that in mind, we get what we get. Still flying the T5-U Fleet K'tinga retrofit and liking it!
Come on...are you really that naive? They're making another Starfleet based *faction*...how could it be any more obvious they only care about Feds and anything besides them.
The RR and KDF will never get anything unique again and haven't in a long time already...and you're perfectly okay with that?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
For all the purists (I have a main toon for each faction and play them all regularly, plus 1 alt for every faction over 50[other games to play]) you are just going to have to deal with 1 fact that keeps more content being shoveled your way.
Anything not federation DOES NOT SELL VERY WELL. That is the overwhelming fact of life. Since KDF/ROM doesn't sell, they focus more of their time on what does.
Remember kids, it's not PWE/Cryptic's job to put out an awesome game equal for all. It's their job to make MONEY. For profit business. So they make an ADDICTING game, which happens to be pretty good, but that's merely a biproduct.
Till KDF and ROM sales start going up, you won't get squat. I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm just pointing at the writing on the wall many hardcore KDF and ROM players simply can't handle.
The ability to be so ignorant of history and defensive of circular logic is astounding.
For all the purists (I have a main toon for each faction and play them all regularly, plus 1 alt for every faction over 50[other games to play]) you are just going to have to deal with 1 fact that keeps more content being shoveled your way.
Anything not federation DOES NOT SELL VERY WELL. That is the overwhelming fact of life. Since KDF/ROM doesn't sell, they focus more of their time on what does.
Remember kids, it's not PWE/Cryptic's job to put out an awesome game equal for all. It's their job to make MONEY. For profit business. So they make an ADDICTING game, which happens to be pretty good, but that's merely a biproduct.
Till KDF and ROM sales start going up, you won't get squat. I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm just pointing at the writing on the wall many hardcore KDF and ROM players simply can't handle.
The ability to be so ignorant of history and defensive of circular logic is astounding.
I'm not. You're just blind to the truth. Do you realize if you looked at the stats, and did it per person average, Federation time and again outspends both factions combined.
And you're looking at it from a "player" standpoint. Look at it from a "business" standpoint. Does it make sense and is it good business to spend time and effort building something(or somethings) for 30%(maybe) of the player population and the other 70% that pays the bigger faction probably won't even touch?
Or is it better business sense to put out something the big faction probably wants, and will attract a lot of new spenders who want that particular endeavor and create a lot more income. Which will make a nice quarterly earning statement for the major stockholders which means assured paycheck and likely a nice bonus too.
Come on now, stop thinking as a player and start thinking as a business for a minute.
Now just to make a point, my main KDF is a female orion Science officer(and she runs around in the intel outfit thankyou). But back to the point. Would I LOVE to have a federation level KDF science ship for my KDF Sci officer? You bet your tail I would. Is it likely to happen? Based on what I've said, no. And considering the focus on the 50th anniversary and all that entails, I am not expecting it any time soon.
So really, your reply is equivalent to a 2 year old having a temper tantrum because you can't see the forest for the trees.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Because people are going to want to play another faction when they're so biased they're literally making a second Starfleet based faction?
When all they have done is shown a heavy biased since the game launched? When all they have ever cared about was the Federation and have constantly given the other factions a big F-U over and over and over again...
There are so many more Starfleet players because they have engineered it that way since the start...why don't they just remove the other factions from the game then if they're going to show this much hate a bias towards the non-Fed ones?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
IT IS THE 50th ANNIVERSARY of THE ORIGINAL SERIES.
How on God's Green Earth did ANYBODY think that an expansion for that event, would be about the Klingon's and/or Romulans?
(or anything else but the Federation)
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
IT IS THE 50th ANNIVERSARY of THE ORIGINAL SERIES.
How on God's Green Earth did ANYBODY think that an expansion for that event, would be about the Klingon's and/or Romulans?
(or anything else but the Federation)
... Because they originated in TOS, too? Nobody thought the expansion would be about the Klingons or Romulans, but it should still include more than token cross-faction TRIBBLE for them. They're throwing out six TOS ships for the Feds, most of which are completely made-up, but they couldn't be bothered to even revamp the existing D-7 and T'liss models?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
IT IS THE 50th ANNIVERSARY of THE ORIGINAL SERIES.
How on God's Green Earth did ANYBODY think that an expansion for that event would be about the Klingon's and/or Romulans?
(or anything else but the Federation)
klingons and romulans were also around during TOS, its just that they are not the main focus in the series and on the game. maybe some point down the road they may have some content coming their way, but it was also stated in the podcast that geko was not keen on the idea of playable TOS klingons because not much was known about them until TNG, it would mean building a whole new background for them. a lot of resources and effort and the same could be stated for the romulans.
dont discount the chance there could be additional TOS klingon and or romulan content happening some point down the road, its just not a very good chance.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Come on now, stop thinking as a player and start thinking as a business for a minute.
I really hope you don't run/manage a business IRL. Any business I would run would follow the age old concept of 'if someone walks in your door with 35cents in their pocket you want that 35cents before they leave. This means a, good, business should have something for EVERYONE, not just the whiney majority. It should have some cheap things to buy some expensive things, it should have stuff for the X, the Y, and the Z. Will I "stock my shelves" with a majority of stuff for X? Sure! But utterly neglecting the other 2 is shooting myself in the foot.
IT IS THE 50th ANNIVERSARY of THE ORIGINAL SERIES.
How on God's Green Earth did ANYBODY think that an expansion for that event, would be about the Klingon's and/or Romulans?
(or anything else but the Federation)
They do create stuff for everyone, they've created a TON of cross faction stuff this past year or so. Minorities will not however be given preferential treatment because that would be unfair to EVERYONE ELSE... this is the failure in logic of people who take up causes like this is that they want more more more and don't give a TRIBBLE who has to sacrifice for them to get it. It's all about them and what they want and it's extremely selfish.
Asking for the same level of attention as another group five times your size is asking for preferential treatment.
You know, with the numerous complaints floating around about the KDF/RR receiving no attention, I remain completely baffled that some still argue for a Cardassian faction.
Why? So you can say "what about the RR/KDF/Cardassians the next time new non-faction specific content is introduced? Because you KNOW that's what would happen.
No, so they can complain that the Cardies get all the spotlight while the Romulans and Klingons aren't fleshed out yet!
Personally, I like the idea that Geko floated - additional factions might be done as level 50+/60+ only factions.
The problem I have with adding in a Cardassian faction is that they would then need to devote resources to flesh out their T6 ships. While it does seems that a lot of people want a Cardassian faction (similar to how a lot of people seemed to have wanted the Romulan faction), the problem is what percentage of all active captains will be in that faction? The Fed faction would still dominate a combined Cardassian / KDF / Romulan faction.
Yes. And that's why they should stop making more factions and instead work on merging the existing ones into one. STO clearly can't sustain a balanced multifaction economy and its counterproductive to maintain "second class" factions when the storyline doesn't demand it.
Come on now, stop thinking as a player and start thinking as a business for a minute.
I really hope you don't run/manage a business IRL. Any business I would run would follow the age old concept of 'if someone walks in your door with 35cents in their pocket you want that 35cents before they leave. This means a, good, business should have something for EVERYONE, not just the whiney majority. It should have some cheap things to buy some expensive things, it should have stuff for the X, the Y, and the Z. Will I "stock my shelves" with a majority of stuff for X? Sure! But utterly neglecting the other 2 is shooting myself in the foot.
The whole "utterly neglecting" thing... It's one of these typical forum exaggeration argumentation techniques that means exactly nothing.
Cryptic has never "uttlery neglected" any faction. What do you think all those Romulan and Klingon Tier 6 ships in those cross-factions were? Or what the custom improvements/fixes for Klingons have been that were released lately?
There is one thing in this game that deserves the title of being "utter neglect by Cryptic", I think. And that's PvP. That is something that hasn't seen support, additions or improvements in years.
If you call the additions and fixes Cryptic made for the Klingon and Romulan faction as utter neglect, you should not be surprised if Cryptic eventually really gives up and certainly has absolutely no desire to engage with anyone of you. You have already proven yourself to be extremely unreasonable and not worth talking to. Their enthusiasm in supporting you would be automatically removed the moment they get exposed to anything what you say. The only think that keeps giving you a chance since there is at least still some income to be generated by you.
And hey, Cryptic, I think you're really cool and all, but could you please fix Material 5 on my Neg'Tev, enable the B'Rolth skin on my Kor, and enable Material 5 on the T6 Bortas? Thanks. Also, a Tier 6 Hegh'ta, Vor'Cha or Dyson (Rom and KDF) would be nice.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Come on now, stop thinking as a player and start thinking as a business for a minute.
I really hope you don't run/manage a business IRL. Any business I would run would follow the age old concept of 'if someone walks in your door with 35cents in their pocket you want that 35cents before they leave. This means a, good, business should have something for EVERYONE, not just the whiney majority. It should have some cheap things to buy some expensive things, it should have stuff for the X, the Y, and the Z. Will I "stock my shelves" with a majority of stuff for X? Sure! But utterly neglecting the other 2 is shooting myself in the foot.
the problem with your reasoning is A: hyperbole(you say "utterly neglecting", but that requires you to provide NO service at all), B: in the end all businesses have to specialize to at least a certain extent. That starts by asking themselves how much of a product they can reasonably expect to sell. As has been pointed out several times.... product development costs time and money. Selling at a loss is unprofitable. Businesses NEED to make a profit or they close.
What do you think all those Romulan and Klingon Tier 6 ships in those cross-factions were? Or what the custom improvements/fixes for Klingons have been that were released lately?
If you call the additions and fixes Cryptic made for the Klingon and Romulan faction as utter neglect,
We're not talking about fixes and exactly what additions have they made hmm? I've yet to see any new Klink/Rom missions. I've also not seen them drop any new ships unless they were reskins of what they made for the feds.
As has been pointed out several times.... product development costs time and money. Selling at a loss is unprofitable. Businesses NEED to make a profit or they close.
And I am fairly certain they have never "lost" money on any ship they've tossed out for sale. But unless we get a really detailed look at their books neither of us can support an argument either way
For all the purists (I have a main toon for each faction and play them all regularly, plus 1 alt for every faction over 50[other games to play]) you are just going to have to deal with 1 fact that keeps more content being shoveled your way.
Anything not federation DOES NOT SELL VERY WELL. That is the overwhelming fact of life. Since KDF/ROM doesn't sell, they focus more of their time on what does.
Remember kids, it's not PWE/Cryptic's job to put out an awesome game equal for all. It's their job to make MONEY. For profit business. So they make an ADDICTING game, which happens to be pretty good, but that's merely a biproduct.
Till KDF and ROM sales start going up, you won't get squat. I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm just pointing at the writing on the wall many hardcore KDF and ROM players simply can't handle.
The ability to be so ignorant of history and defensive of circular logic is astounding.
I'm not. You're just blind to the truth. Do you realize if you looked at the stats, and did it per person average, Federation time and again outspends both factions combined.
And you're looking at it from a "player" standpoint. Look at it from a "business" standpoint. Does it make sense and is it good business to spend time and effort building something(or somethings) for 30%(maybe) of the player population and the other 70% that pays the bigger faction probably won't even touch?
Or is it better business sense to put out something the big faction probably wants, and will attract a lot of new spenders who want that particular endeavor and create a lot more income. Which will make a nice quarterly earning statement for the major stockholders which means assured paycheck and likely a nice bonus too.
Come on now, stop thinking as a player and start thinking as a business for a minute.
Now just to make a point, my main KDF is a female orion Science officer(and she runs around in the intel outfit thankyou). But back to the point. Would I LOVE to have a federation level KDF science ship for my KDF Sci officer? You bet your tail I would. Is it likely to happen? Based on what I've said, no. And considering the focus on the 50th anniversary and all that entails, I am not expecting it any time soon.
So really, your reply is equivalent to a 2 year old having a temper tantrum because you can't see the forest for the trees.
No, you are still using circular logic, and you are choosing to ignore the fact that Cryptic have been systematically favouring the Federation from the start - the KDF stuff didn't sell because they were exercises in mediocrity to justify not having to develop for them.
You accuse me of looking at it from the wrong perspective, when it is you who is choosing to ignore the bias that was in the developers from the start.
Now, I don't have to restate it, @patrickngo already put together a decent, if short, summary of it.
KDF sci ships at T5 and T6:
Varanus+fleet
Dysons
Korath
Terrible or broken rehashes of Fed-side table scraps. Proven it doesn't sell? They haven't even proved they have tried to sell a Klingon Sci ship, because the first is a worse version of a freebie Fed ship - and it was one of the worst Fed-ships at that - the Dysons were all terrible.
Feds:
Deep Space Science Vessel+fleet, and Mirror Deep Space Science Vessel
Reconnaissance Science Vessel+Fleet, and Mirror Reconnaissance Science Vessel
Science Vessel retrofit+Fleet, and Mirror Science Vessel retrofit
Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit+Fleet
D'Kyr
Multi-Mission Explorers
T5 and T6 Intrepids
Dauntless
Scryer
Not even half.
Carriers? A former KDF exclusive? Well, the Karfi is invisible because they broke it, and it has been broke for months now. And while the KDF had to put up with broken AI for hanger pets for years, when the Feds got carriers the problems were -largely- fixed.
And the only T6 full Carrier is for Feds.
C-Store ship consoles? Anything good was looted for cross-factioning.
When STO started, you had to level up a Fed in order to unlock KDF, then you pretty much had to PvP in order to level because it took until they added the Romulans to complete the levelling content.
Battlecruisers? The Mogh was delayed for months so that the Avenger could be released, and when it was, it was made to be the better ship.
Delta Rising T6s - Feds? 2 Cruisers, 2 Sci ships, an escort - Romulans 2 ships, KDF 2 ships.
Temporal Agent pack as it stands: Feds 4, Rom/KDF 2 Fed ships made cross faction.
And they aren't bothering with the cross-faction bit - are there differences between these three?*
At least they bothered to reskin for the Korath, Krenn, R'Mor and Talvath...
Your entire position assumes that the KDF and Feds were given equal development and equipment, and it was only after that that KDF went undeveloped, and that is not the case - they made stuff for KDF below the Fed standard in order to say KDF stuff doesn't sell.
Why? Because the devs only like Feds. They have shown that from the start. When you have the
And to turn your own point around - why not actually do a proper job of equal treatment and grow the almost masochistically loyal to stick around this long KDF and Rom players, and make money from all 3 factions? Because it can be done, they just choose not to do it.
Why? Because the devs only like Feds. They have shown that from the start. When you have the
And to turn your own point around - why not actually do a proper job of equal treatment and grow the almost masochistically loyal to stick around this long KDF and Rom players, and make money from all 3 factions? Because it can be done, they just choose not to do it.
That doesn't make any sense. Why would they make the factions then? If they just choose not to make money from them?
Undoubtedly they did intend to make money from the factions and that's why they created them. But turns out most players want to play Fed so the other factions don't have enough sales. IMO it was a mistake to make the factions. It would've been more profitable to keep the single (Fed) faction and just sell KDF/Rom ships, not dividing their customer base. The KDF/Rom fans would've bought them anyway and maybe some Fed-only players would have too, if they weren't forbidden.
The Devs did add "Visual Slots" to the ships, just before they started releasing these "faction-agnostic" ships.
What if they mean to eventually give us a "KDF Temporal Visuals" and "RR Temporal Visuals" and "FED Temporal Visuals" packages for these "faction-agnostic" ships?
They can now make one ship with the settings needed....sell it to everyone. Then just make these visual packages if we want changes?
Doesn't this make more sense than making artwork and building 3 different ships. It gives them flexibility as they add factions in the future, also. And flexibility to sell different themes on these visual packages.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
As has been pointed out several times.... product development costs time and money. Selling at a loss is unprofitable. Businesses NEED to make a profit or they close.
And I am fairly certain they have never "lost" money on any ship they've tossed out for sale. But unless we get a really detailed look at their books neither of us can support an argument either way
Actually there have been official comments to that effect.
As has been pointed out several times.... product development costs time and money. Selling at a loss is unprofitable. Businesses NEED to make a profit or they close.
And I am fairly certain they have never "lost" money on any ship they've tossed out for sale. But unless we get a really detailed look at their books neither of us can support an argument either way
Actually there have been official comments to that effect.
Official comments does not "a look at their books" make.
What if they mean to eventually give us a "KDF Temporal Visuals" and "RR Temporal Visuals" and "FED Temporal Visuals" packages for these "faction-agnostic" ships?
I think you're close to the mark... visual slots can open the door to a lot of costumes and z-store package options, not just temporal
As a KDF player primarily... I kinda hope they'll toss us a bone or two with some ToS inspired Klink ships. I love that old Klingon design, and would love a T6 version of the ORIGINAL cruiser!
Otherwise... meh. Another alt to see what they got, then back to stomping around in my Fleet Vo'Quv.
What if they mean to eventually give us a "KDF Temporal Visuals" and "RR Temporal Visuals" and "FED Temporal Visuals" packages for these "faction-agnostic" ships?
I think you're close to the mark... visual slots can open the door to a lot of costumes and z-store package options, not just temporal
I used "Temporal" as an example...because that was what we were looking at.
You are right, they could create any theme...for any faction. And in combination with faction-agnostic ships that anyone could buy and use, that should take the pressure off the cooker.
Character creation is flexible and so many races, already, plus alien generator...there needs to be some sort of flexibility with ships and ship visuals that is viable no matter what race or faction you make the captain.
I am sure they will still make faction specific ships because I can't see Romulans not getting their T-6 Scimitar, eventually, and I won't give up flying my BoP...etc...etc... And what ever new factions that are incoming....they have their own signature ships, too.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
As has been pointed out several times.... product development costs time and money. Selling at a loss is unprofitable. Businesses NEED to make a profit or they close.
And I am fairly certain they have never "lost" money on any ship they've tossed out for sale. But unless we get a really detailed look at their books neither of us can support an argument either way
Actually there have been official comments to that effect.
Official comments does not "a look at their books" make.
It's the closest you'll ever get without a court order. Also, if you did get to look the court order would likely prohibit you from sharing the information.
Maybe the reason why KDF doesn't sell well because there are simply less items in the store?
Nah, I don't buy that. Why? Market dilution. Example:
Say you have 50 Fed Players and 50 KDF. Each of them has enough zen to buy one ship in the store.
The Fed players each have 10 options to choose from to find something that fits their play style. This means that on average there will be 5 purchases of each ship. Individual ships may be more or less.
But the KDF only have 5 options. Thus each of the ships gets bought 10 times.
But that's not what actually happens. In practice there's something like 5 Feds for every KDF or more. So instead of 50 and 50 it's 50 and 10 or less. By extension this means that while the fed ships get 5 sales each, the KDF would only get TWO.
Why? Because the devs only like Feds. They have shown that from the start. When you have the
And to turn your own point around - why not actually do a proper job of equal treatment and grow the almost masochistically loyal to stick around this long KDF and Rom players, and make money from all 3 factions? Because it can be done, they just choose not to do it.
That doesn't make any sense. Why would they make the factions then? If they just choose not to make money from them?
Undoubtedly they did intend to make money from the factions and that's why they created them. But turns out most players want to play Fed so the other factions don't have enough sales. IMO it was a mistake to make the factions. It would've been more profitable to keep the single (Fed) faction and just sell KDF/Rom ships, not dividing their customer base. The KDF/Rom fans would've bought them anyway and maybe some Fed-only players would have too, if they weren't forbidden.
Legacy things from the original game they took over.
Of course people will want to play Feds; it is what the IP is about. But to only be able to make money off of 70% of your players means you are doing something wrong with the 30%.
That 30% is further divided in half and it takes the same amount of time and money to design and build additions for each faction. The up front costs for development are very large and have to atleast make the money back.
They have plenty of crossfaction goodies to make money off the full 100% however.
That 30% is further divided in half and it takes the same amount of time and money to design and build additions for each faction. The up front costs for development are very large and have to atleast make the money back.
They have plenty of crossfaction goodies to make money off the full 100% however.
Yeah, the recent escort 3-pack is a good example of how they do in fact care about making ships for Rom and KDF. Also... the flagship 9-pack....
Comments
Come on...are you really that naive? They're making another Starfleet based *faction*...how could it be any more obvious they only care about Feds and anything besides them.
The RR and KDF will never get anything unique again and haven't in a long time already...and you're perfectly okay with that?
The ability to be so ignorant of history and defensive of circular logic is astounding.
I'm not. You're just blind to the truth. Do you realize if you looked at the stats, and did it per person average, Federation time and again outspends both factions combined.
And you're looking at it from a "player" standpoint. Look at it from a "business" standpoint. Does it make sense and is it good business to spend time and effort building something(or somethings) for 30%(maybe) of the player population and the other 70% that pays the bigger faction probably won't even touch?
Or is it better business sense to put out something the big faction probably wants, and will attract a lot of new spenders who want that particular endeavor and create a lot more income. Which will make a nice quarterly earning statement for the major stockholders which means assured paycheck and likely a nice bonus too.
Come on now, stop thinking as a player and start thinking as a business for a minute.
Now just to make a point, my main KDF is a female orion Science officer(and she runs around in the intel outfit thankyou). But back to the point. Would I LOVE to have a federation level KDF science ship for my KDF Sci officer? You bet your tail I would. Is it likely to happen? Based on what I've said, no. And considering the focus on the 50th anniversary and all that entails, I am not expecting it any time soon.
So really, your reply is equivalent to a 2 year old having a temper tantrum because you can't see the forest for the trees.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
When all they have done is shown a heavy biased since the game launched? When all they have ever cared about was the Federation and have constantly given the other factions a big F-U over and over and over again...
There are so many more Starfleet players because they have engineered it that way since the start...why don't they just remove the other factions from the game then if they're going to show this much hate a bias towards the non-Fed ones?
IT IS THE 50th ANNIVERSARY of THE ORIGINAL SERIES.
How on God's Green Earth did ANYBODY think that an expansion for that event, would be about the Klingon's and/or Romulans?
(or anything else but the Federation)
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
... Because they originated in TOS, too? Nobody thought the expansion would be about the Klingons or Romulans, but it should still include more than token cross-faction TRIBBLE for them. They're throwing out six TOS ships for the Feds, most of which are completely made-up, but they couldn't be bothered to even revamp the existing D-7 and T'liss models?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
klingons and romulans were also around during TOS, its just that they are not the main focus in the series and on the game. maybe some point down the road they may have some content coming their way, but it was also stated in the podcast that geko was not keen on the idea of playable TOS klingons because not much was known about them until TNG, it would mean building a whole new background for them. a lot of resources and effort and the same could be stated for the romulans.
dont discount the chance there could be additional TOS klingon and or romulan content happening some point down the road, its just not a very good chance.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I really hope you don't run/manage a business IRL. Any business I would run would follow the age old concept of 'if someone walks in your door with 35cents in their pocket you want that 35cents before they leave. This means a, good, business should have something for EVERYONE, not just the whiney majority. It should have some cheap things to buy some expensive things, it should have stuff for the X, the Y, and the Z. Will I "stock my shelves" with a majority of stuff for X? Sure! But utterly neglecting the other 2 is shooting myself in the foot.
Asking for the same level of attention as another group five times your size is asking for preferential treatment.
The self-entitled vocal minority is so ridiculous with their forum blame-shaming on Cryptic.
Yes. And that's why they should stop making more factions and instead work on merging the existing ones into one. STO clearly can't sustain a balanced multifaction economy and its counterproductive to maintain "second class" factions when the storyline doesn't demand it.
The whole "utterly neglecting" thing... It's one of these typical forum exaggeration argumentation techniques that means exactly nothing.
Cryptic has never "uttlery neglected" any faction. What do you think all those Romulan and Klingon Tier 6 ships in those cross-factions were? Or what the custom improvements/fixes for Klingons have been that were released lately?
There is one thing in this game that deserves the title of being "utter neglect by Cryptic", I think. And that's PvP. That is something that hasn't seen support, additions or improvements in years.
If you call the additions and fixes Cryptic made for the Klingon and Romulan faction as utter neglect, you should not be surprised if Cryptic eventually really gives up and certainly has absolutely no desire to engage with anyone of you. You have already proven yourself to be extremely unreasonable and not worth talking to. Their enthusiasm in supporting you would be automatically removed the moment they get exposed to anything what you say. The only think that keeps giving you a chance since there is at least still some income to be generated by you.
And hey, Cryptic, I think you're really cool and all, but could you please fix Material 5 on my Neg'Tev, enable the B'Rolth skin on my Kor, and enable Material 5 on the T6 Bortas? Thanks. Also, a Tier 6 Hegh'ta, Vor'Cha or Dyson (Rom and KDF) would be nice.
My character Tsin'xing
may it rot for all eternity in its grave
We're not talking about fixes and exactly what additions have they made hmm? I've yet to see any new Klink/Rom missions. I've also not seen them drop any new ships unless they were reskins of what they made for the feds.
And I am fairly certain they have never "lost" money on any ship they've tossed out for sale. But unless we get a really detailed look at their books neither of us can support an argument either way
No, you are still using circular logic, and you are choosing to ignore the fact that Cryptic have been systematically favouring the Federation from the start - the KDF stuff didn't sell because they were exercises in mediocrity to justify not having to develop for them.
You accuse me of looking at it from the wrong perspective, when it is you who is choosing to ignore the bias that was in the developers from the start.
Now, I don't have to restate it, @patrickngo already put together a decent, if short, summary of it.
KDF sci ships at T5 and T6:
Varanus+fleet
Dysons
Korath
Terrible or broken rehashes of Fed-side table scraps. Proven it doesn't sell? They haven't even proved they have tried to sell a Klingon Sci ship, because the first is a worse version of a freebie Fed ship - and it was one of the worst Fed-ships at that - the Dysons were all terrible.
Feds:
Deep Space Science Vessel+fleet, and Mirror Deep Space Science Vessel
Reconnaissance Science Vessel+Fleet, and Mirror Reconnaissance Science Vessel
Science Vessel retrofit+Fleet, and Mirror Science Vessel retrofit
Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit+Fleet
D'Kyr
Multi-Mission Explorers
T5 and T6 Intrepids
Dauntless
Scryer
Not even half.
Carriers? A former KDF exclusive? Well, the Karfi is invisible because they broke it, and it has been broke for months now. And while the KDF had to put up with broken AI for hanger pets for years, when the Feds got carriers the problems were -largely- fixed.
And the only T6 full Carrier is for Feds.
C-Store ship consoles? Anything good was looted for cross-factioning.
When STO started, you had to level up a Fed in order to unlock KDF, then you pretty much had to PvP in order to level because it took until they added the Romulans to complete the levelling content.
Battlecruisers? The Mogh was delayed for months so that the Avenger could be released, and when it was, it was made to be the better ship.
Delta Rising T6s - Feds? 2 Cruisers, 2 Sci ships, an escort - Romulans 2 ships, KDF 2 ships.
Temporal Agent pack as it stands: Feds 4, Rom/KDF 2 Fed ships made cross faction.
And they aren't bothering with the cross-faction bit - are there differences between these three?*
At least they bothered to reskin for the Korath, Krenn, R'Mor and Talvath...
Your entire position assumes that the KDF and Feds were given equal development and equipment, and it was only after that that KDF went undeveloped, and that is not the case - they made stuff for KDF below the Fed standard in order to say KDF stuff doesn't sell.
Why? Because the devs only like Feds. They have shown that from the start. When you have the
And to turn your own point around - why not actually do a proper job of equal treatment and grow the almost masochistically loyal to stick around this long KDF and Rom players, and make money from all 3 factions? Because it can be done, they just choose not to do it.
That is the real reason.
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* Credit to @starswordc post here for images. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1214974/agents-of-yesterday-announcement/p12
Undoubtedly they did intend to make money from the factions and that's why they created them. But turns out most players want to play Fed so the other factions don't have enough sales. IMO it was a mistake to make the factions. It would've been more profitable to keep the single (Fed) faction and just sell KDF/Rom ships, not dividing their customer base. The KDF/Rom fans would've bought them anyway and maybe some Fed-only players would have too, if they weren't forbidden.
The Devs did add "Visual Slots" to the ships, just before they started releasing these "faction-agnostic" ships.
What if they mean to eventually give us a "KDF Temporal Visuals" and "RR Temporal Visuals" and "FED Temporal Visuals" packages for these "faction-agnostic" ships?
They can now make one ship with the settings needed....sell it to everyone. Then just make these visual packages if we want changes?
Doesn't this make more sense than making artwork and building 3 different ships. It gives them flexibility as they add factions in the future, also. And flexibility to sell different themes on these visual packages.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
My character Tsin'xing
I think you're close to the mark... visual slots can open the door to a lot of costumes and z-store package options, not just temporal
Otherwise... meh. Another alt to see what they got, then back to stomping around in my Fleet Vo'Quv.
I used "Temporal" as an example...because that was what we were looking at.
You are right, they could create any theme...for any faction. And in combination with faction-agnostic ships that anyone could buy and use, that should take the pressure off the cooker.
Character creation is flexible and so many races, already, plus alien generator...there needs to be some sort of flexibility with ships and ship visuals that is viable no matter what race or faction you make the captain.
I am sure they will still make faction specific ships because I can't see Romulans not getting their T-6 Scimitar, eventually, and I won't give up flying my BoP...etc...etc... And what ever new factions that are incoming....they have their own signature ships, too.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
My character Tsin'xing
Say you have 50 Fed Players and 50 KDF. Each of them has enough zen to buy one ship in the store.
The Fed players each have 10 options to choose from to find something that fits their play style. This means that on average there will be 5 purchases of each ship. Individual ships may be more or less.
But the KDF only have 5 options. Thus each of the ships gets bought 10 times.
But that's not what actually happens. In practice there's something like 5 Feds for every KDF or more. So instead of 50 and 50 it's 50 and 10 or less. By extension this means that while the fed ships get 5 sales each, the KDF would only get TWO.
My character Tsin'xing
Legacy things from the original game they took over.
Of course people will want to play Feds; it is what the IP is about. But to only be able to make money off of 70% of your players means you are doing something wrong with the 30%.
They have plenty of crossfaction goodies to make money off the full 100% however.
My character Tsin'xing