No, Sela has NO point and no rights. There ARE no treaties between the Romulan Republic and the remnant of the Romulan Star Empire, as she is claiming. She is a prisoner of the Romulan Republic, not the Federation or Klingon Empire, so those parties have absolutely zero say in her treatment.
Sela should count herself fortunate she is being *asked* at all, as in the hands of the Tal Shiar, she would be tortured and mind r@p3d until she gave up the intel. She has no fear of her current situation because she believes that, because she has information, she holds all the cards, whereas in truth, that's the ONLY card she has.
Also, her interrogator sucks. Get somebody who actually knows what he's doing.
No, Sela has NO point and no rights. There ARE no treaties between the Romulan Republic and the remnant of the Romulan Star Empire, as she is claiming. She is a prisoner of the Romulan Republic, not the Federation or Klingon Empire, so those parties have absolutely zero say in her treatment.
Sela should count herself fortunate she is being *asked* at all, as in the hands of the Tal Shiar, she would be tortured and mind r@p3d until she gave up the intel. She has no fear of her current situation because she believes that, because she has information, she holds all the cards, whereas in truth, that's the ONLY card she has.
Also, her interrogator sucks. Get somebody who actually knows what he's doing.
I would agree with you. The interrogator is probobly ex-RSE and has recieved a metal for not strangling her... yet
I dont know weither to say that D'Tan is in the federations back pocket or not. We're trying to get information from her right?? How to do so:
1: Send her to my ship
2: tie her up the rack I call the crucible in my torture chamber
3: I show up, pull a mind probe out of my pocket, and have Anitra install it
4: I show my inner Romulan interrogator and mind r@ap3d her
5: give Subcommander Tovan Khev the honors of putting her out of her misery
6: I present what she knew to Tuvok the next day
Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
The interrogator does indeed suck. The ***** needs to be water boarded. The Tal Shiar / Romulan Empire and the Republic have no formal treaties. According to Sela herself the Republic are little more than terrorists. They also need to get her out of that clean elegant regalia. She belongs in a prison jump suit.
They're behaving as old-school Romulans, Romulans of the Empire, not the Republic.
Why shouldn't they? Thousands of years of Imperial mindset and justice vs. 1 year of Republic rule - with much of the latter being spent merely trying to survive the tyranny and attacks of this lady Hitler.
Nah, if they were truly acting like old school Romulans, she would be screaming in agony as a neural probe attempts to force the information she refuses to willing divulge out of her head. Right now she's just bored staring at the walls of her cell.
This. Instead of Uhlan Tal Whitebread questioning her in Federation style, she SHOULD be AT LEAST questioned via high-tech mind probes, truth serum, and/or Reman telepathy. And before you claim those are too barbaric:
1) Mind probes: In "The Enterprise Incident", the Romulan Commander (military, not Tal Shiar) proposed mind probing Kirk, and only relented because Spock (apparently) gave her the information she wanted voluntarily.
2) Truth Serum: Spock (yes, FEDERATION STARFLEET Spock) suggested it's use on Prof. Crater in "Man Trap" in order to get information on the Salt Vampire's identity, which the Prof. was unwilling to give. He was actually on his way to sick bay to supervise the procedure when he was attacked and disabled by the creature and Crater.
3) Telepathy: Again, Spock (still good, old FEDERATION STARFLEET Spock) did this to question Valeris against her will in "The Undiscovered Country". He did this in full view of the bridge crew of the Enterprise, and nobody made any attempt to even speak up for her. And SHE was only a traitor and conspirator, not a raving genocidal maniac/war criminal/tyrannical head of an enemy empire!
Personally, although I like and admire Denise Crosby, and enjoyed Sela's introduction in TNG, I think that the character has LONG outlived her usefulness and credibility. The day when she is finally executed will be a day of rejoicing in both the Republic AND the Star Empire.
I find it interesting how many Republic players here are demanding torture/grisly execution for her actions.
Always curious how people can fume with righteous indignation and then turn around and perform actions just as reprehensible, while claim moral superiority without a hint of irony.
It's a positively Tal Shiar/RSE sort of attitude. Yet that seems fact seems to fall flat for a lot of players/Cryptic themselves...
IMO we should have a 'nasty' way of extracting her information, and a 'friendly' one...like we used to have in a lot of earlier episodes. I'll be disappointed if players aren't allowed to have extensive conversations with her.
I find it interesting how many Republic players here are demanding torture/grisly execution for her actions.
Always curious how people can fume with righteous indignation and then turn around and perform actions just as reprehensible, while claim moral superiority without a hint of irony.
It's a positively Tal Shiar/RSE sort of attitude. Yet that seems fact seems to fall flat for a lot of players/Cryptic themselves...
IMO we should have a 'nasty' way of extracting her information, and a 'friendly' one...like we used to have in a lot of earlier episodes. I'll be disappointed if players aren't allowed to have extensive conversations with her.
This! Just....this.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
I find it interesting how many Republic players here are demanding torture/grisly execution for her actions.
Always curious how people can fume with righteous indignation and then turn around and perform actions just as reprehensible, while claim moral superiority without a hint of irony.
It's a positively Tal Shiar/RSE sort of attitude. Yet that seems fact seems to fall flat for a lot of players/Cryptic themselves...
IMO we should have a 'nasty' way of extracting her information, and a 'friendly' one...like we used to have in a lot of earlier episodes. I'll be disappointed if players aren't allowed to have extensive conversations with her.
You're not the only one who finds that very interesting. So many people advocating the very things that the RSE/Tal Shiar are infamous for.
To treat Sela the way the RSE/Tal Shiar treats their prisoners would make us no better than she is. I thought the Republic was better than that.
I find it interesting how many Republic players here are demanding torture/grisly execution for her actions.
Always curious how people can fume with righteous indignation and then turn around and perform actions just as reprehensible, while claim moral superiority without a hint of irony.
It's a positively Tal Shiar/RSE sort of attitude. Yet that seems fact seems to fall flat for a lot of players/Cryptic themselves...
IMO we should have a 'nasty' way of extracting her information, and a 'friendly' one...like we used to have in a lot of earlier episodes. I'll be disappointed if players aren't allowed to have extensive conversations with her.
This is exactly what I was thinking. This sort of double-standard seems to be the main justification for the way the Republic has played out.
While Im happy the Republic nincompoop has had enough sense to lock her up in isolation and deny her almost all but basic necessities, I agree she's being coddled far too much by the Republic. Cough up some mind probes and telepaths, r@pe her mind, get the intel we need then let me show her how I handled Hakeev. I'll do a perfect reenactment, she'll take Hakeev's place of course.
ooc:
Im glad they're continuing to show the RR with a bit more of an a$$hole side still, but this guy doesn't deserve the title 'interrogator' and I really wish they'd stop with the Romulan = incompetent buffoon theme all together.
The way I hear it with Spock and Valeris, the reason she was scared was because she knew he could just brute force the information out of her and leave her a broken husk, but instead he was gentle with her.
It makes sense if you think about it.
My Mind to your mind. My thoughts to your thoughts. The Vulcan Mind Meld is not just strict mind reading. It's mind merging. It's a two way street. If Spock had "mind *****" her as people suggest, he would also have experienced the telepathic violence. He would have the same scars he would know precisely how it felt. But consider that he was her mentor. So after the mind meld, she was resigned. Why? Because she also got a window into his feelings. His sense of betrayal and perhaps the most devastating thing any parent figure can give. His utter disappointment in her choices.
As for how to interrogate Sela, the interrogator did play it wrong with the guard. Don't reassign his TRIBBLE. Use him. She wants to talk to him? Let her talk. She wants to manipulate him, let her. Use him as an in. Use holotechnology, simulate a jailbreak, give him a chance to "prove" his loyalty. Train him to her to open up. If she doesn't bite, or she feeds him bull ****, you're in no worse position. As the Tamarians might say, "Degra and Archer in the shuttle" (ENT: Strategem)
On the other hand, she may give away the farm. Then you can still put her on trial and sentence her as you see fit.
No, Sela has NO point and no rights. There ARE no treaties between the Romulan Republic and the remnant of the Romulan Star Empire, as she is claiming. She is a prisoner of the Romulan Republic, not the Federation or Klingon Empire, so those parties have absolutely zero say in her treatment.
Sela should count herself fortunate she is being *asked* at all, as in the hands of the Tal Shiar, she would be tortured and mind r@p3d until she gave up the intel. She has no fear of her current situation because she believes that, because she has information, she holds all the cards, whereas in truth, that's the ONLY card she has.
Also, her interrogator sucks. Get somebody who actually knows what he's doing.
True. Sela as usual overvalues herself.
That said she is also using the Republic's ideals against them. She knows they want to be better than the empire, she knows that they want to move past the history of torture, she knows that they want to create something enlightened. It's a classic villain move. It's the Joker pushing someone out the window because he knows that Batman will save the innocent first every time instead of capturing him.
I would agree with you. The interrogator is probobly ex-RSE and has recieved a metal for not strangling her... yet
I dont know weither to say that D'Tan is in the federations back pocket or not. We're trying to get information from her right?? How to do so:
1: Send her to my ship
2: tie her up the rack I call the crucible in my torture chamber
3: I show up, pull a mind probe out of my pocket, and have Anitra install it
4: I show my inner Romulan interrogator and mind r@ap3d her
5: give Subcommander Tovan Khev the honors of putting her out of her misery
6: I present what she knew to Tuvok the next day
D'Tan is NOT in the Federation's back pocket.
Otherwise Jarok would've never pulled that stunt she tried in the Jenolan Sphere. Their taking the lead on the Solanae Sphere, using the excuse that it is within their sphere of influence is BS. The reason the that Romulans run Dyson Joint Command is because they're the only ones the Federation and the Klingons trusted at that point. Note that in the Delta Command there are three commanders one from each faction.
D'Tan is good and his heart is in the right place (above his stomach), but he's still made some rookie mistakes trying raise the Republic into the superpower the empire was. Ignoring the Undine threat is a prime example.
I find it interesting how many Republic players here are demanding torture/grisly execution for her actions.
Always curious how people can fume with righteous indignation and then turn around and perform actions just as reprehensible, while claim moral superiority without a hint of irony.
It's a positively Tal Shiar/RSE sort of attitude. Yet that seems fact seems to fall flat for a lot of players/Cryptic themselves...
IMO we should have a 'nasty' way of extracting her information, and a 'friendly' one...like we used to have in a lot of earlier episodes. I'll be disappointed if players aren't allowed to have extensive conversations with her.
Some good old fashioned, Commander Shepard Paragon/Renegade choice structure, I like it, I like it a lot.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I don't think there's any excusing Spock's actions with Valeris. It's a violation of the most personal way possible. The fact that it imprints of the participants on each other's minds would make it even more disturbing IMO. That, if anything, would make it even more disturbing than 'normal' nonconsensual mind reading...which in many scifi franchises is already compared to nonconsensual sex.
If there's anything Enterprise did right, it was to point out how morally wrong forcing such an interaction would be on an unwilling subject.
One of the things I find disturbing about NU Trek Spock is his readiness to use mindmelds on the unwilling at the drop of a hat.
Taris was held captive in one of the most secure (ahem) prisons of the Federation (facility 4028). She could escape with help from the Iconians.
If the Iconians can open up gateways everywhere, then how do you escape their prisons? They could just open up a gateway and retrieve you at any time, right?
I caught that as well. The simple answer, they let her (and you) go.
Long answer? They were busy and not paying attention at the moment lol
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
does she deserve the treatment given to her? this looks like kid gloves compared to what one of her status should receive. my thoughts are simple, a hole in the ground and tombstone, all thats needed is sela's body.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I don't think there's any excusing Spock's actions with Valeris. It's a violation of the most personal way possible. The fact that it imprints of the participants on each other's minds would make it even more disturbing IMO. That, if anything, would make it even more disturbing than 'normal' nonconsensual mind reading...which in many scifi franchises is already compared to nonconsensual sex.
If there's anything Enterprise did right, it was to point out how morally wrong forcing such an interaction would be on an unwilling subject.
One of the things I find disturbing about NU Trek Spock is his readiness to use mindmelds on the unwilling at the drop of a hat.
As I said, I prefer the novelization's interpretation.
In the novelization of The Undiscovered Country featured a slightly different take on the forced mindmeld between Spock and Valeris. As Spock probed her mind, he stopped just short of breaking her will and gave her the choice to willingly help him. The choked sob by Valeris was her gratitude and grief at being given the choice. Nevertheless, the scene deeply distressed Spock and shocked the crew.
That is notable, the whole bridge crew looked shocked and appalled.
The alternative was the death of Federation President and the Klingon Chancellor and a war between the Federation and Klingons that likely would've resulted in war that could only be dwarfed by the Dominion War and the likely annihilation of the Klingon people as we know them.
It's the difference between justifiable and necessary.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
does she deserve the treatment given to her? this looks like kid gloves compared to what one of her status should receive. my thoughts are simple, a hole in the ground and tombstone, all thats needed is sela's body.
Well, if the Romulan Republic/Federation want to continue at least pretending that they actually represent the principles they claim to stand for....then yes.
As I said, I prefer the novelization's interpretation.
That is notable, the whole bridge crew looked shocked and appalled.
The alternative was the death of Federation President and the Klingon Chancellor and a war between the Federation and Klingons that likely would've resulted in war that could only be dwarfed by the Dominion War and the likely annihilation of the Klingon people as we know them.
It's the difference between justifiable and necessary.
I thought the novel's explanation was a copout.
It was necessary, and sometimes horrible things are necessary. But that doesn't mean that such horrible actions can and should be done without any sort of negative consequences.
Well, if the Romulan Republic/Federation want to continue at least pretending that they actually represent the principles they claim to stand for....then yes.
Klingons, on the other hand...
Why would you say Romulan Republic/Federation?
It's SOLELY the Romulan Republic here.
While D'Tan was raised and mentored with Vulcan principles, he's still a Romulan.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Well it seems like the Romulan Republic treats their prisoners of war just like the US does today. But then Sela hasn't been tortured yet. I mean the Romulan Republic didn't apply "advanced interogation techniques" yet.
It was necessary, and sometimes horrible things are necessary. But that doesn't mean that such horrible actions can and should be done without any sort of negative consequences.
I disagree with it being a copout because I feel it's consistent with the mechanics behind what we know about Vulcan telepathy.
We've heard many times that after a mind meld, the participants are a part of each other from that day forward, to the point that Spock was able to touch a piece of his father by mind melding with Picard. If you look at the emotion on Spock's face in the scene it's clear that it was a shared experience.
That said, I'm not sure what the punishment for forced telepathic contact is under Vulcan law or Starfleet regulation. Would it qualify as a misdemeanor or a felony. It's clearly not the same type of violation as Shinzon and his Viceroy assaulting Deanna, or the time that guy was projecting himself into her mind, or the telepath that was transmitting his negative energy onto her thus rapidly aging her.
Also this was clearly something discussed as Spock melded with her at Kirk's prompting, meaning it was possibly an order.
Someone should probably look into what kind of regulations Starfleet would have for telepathy in Intelligence or tactical situations.
What do you think an appropriate punishment would have been under the circumstances?
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
This is good. I think the Republic is doing ok trying to get answers. Putting her in a cell with nothing to do is a good place for her. Until we get some answers.
I wouldn't kill her yet. As she has to answer for her crimes and be questioned for what she knows about the Iconians and what happened after her capture or getting help from them. For a chance to learn about them will go away if she dies fast.
Granted some want her dead right away. I rather get all the info I could, then deal with her on a trial. Where she will answer for all her war crimes.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The presumption of many, since STO is based in a mindset stemming from the U.S. Constitution and the presumption of preexisting rights, is that Sela is subject to those same values. Frankly, that is a good avenue to pursue, but is not necessarily the mindset of Romulans. So far there's nothing that suggests that anything of the U.S. Constitution and the values it contains are taken as given established norm nor that of any other government. No one would conclude that the Klingons would see things the same way. After all, the Klingons are still chasing after a blood libel from the "unforgiven" which is noted in the duty officer missions.
Once establishing a source for views, be it God or something else, then you have a basis to work with. Remember, STO, Star Trek, appeals to an international community. Not all nations agree on the role of their governments nor even themselves with relation to their respective governments. Assigning an undefined governing role to the Romulan Republic without a foundation can ultimately be devastating.
It would be incumbent of all parties/factions to have treaties in place in full recognition of the facts that surround different walks of life and governing bodies. This could be difficult since to date only D'Tan has been viewed as a governing position. There has been no other means established that actually formulate a Republic. No one speaks of decisions being made in the House or Senate, nor a counsel, nor a Parliament, nor any other formation. D'Tan is often referred to as leading his people, but his people are in the millions. Are Romulans without independent thought as individuals? Is there never discourse?
The story writers at STO can easily fix this oversight and with just a single, or maybe two, episodes that would be excellent for highlighting values as well as combative action against those who would seek to undermine the Republic. The Tal Shiar would certainly have an interest.
In my view, absent of the afore mentioned governmental establishment, the only way to deal with Sela is via a military tribunal and as such could be nearly anything the mind can conjure, be it right or wrong in the eyes of those who participate whether it's the outcome of the writers imagination or the Captains who play the role or a combination of both. I would much prefer the Republic be in full swing first. That's to say nothing of the story line opportunity it presents.
You will find that people are not as cut and dried as they'd like to believe. As much as people like to preach high ideals we resort to our baser instincts when it's someone who has hurt us. Sela has done a lot of wrong to a lot of people...especially the Romulans...in the face of their greatest boogey-woman they don't care if she gets a fair trial...they want to hurt her the way she hurt them...regardless if it's right or wrong.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Comments
Nah.......that Lieutenant Seken guy that guarded Sela and talked to her.....that was elderly Garak...erm...gardener!
He walkes two feet to the right and has a chat with elderly Quark (Im not saying that they're together) on the Republic using some drink as an example
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
Sela should count herself fortunate she is being *asked* at all, as in the hands of the Tal Shiar, she would be tortured and mind r@p3d until she gave up the intel. She has no fear of her current situation because she believes that, because she has information, she holds all the cards, whereas in truth, that's the ONLY card she has.
Also, her interrogator sucks. Get somebody who actually knows what he's doing.
I would agree with you. The interrogator is probobly ex-RSE and has recieved a metal for not strangling her... yet
I dont know weither to say that D'Tan is in the federations back pocket or not. We're trying to get information from her right?? How to do so:
1: Send her to my ship
2: tie her up the rack I call the crucible in my torture chamber
3: I show up, pull a mind probe out of my pocket, and have Anitra install it
4: I show my inner Romulan interrogator and mind r@ap3d her
5: give Subcommander Tovan Khev the honors of putting her out of her misery
6: I present what she knew to Tuvok the next day
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
Why shouldn't they? Thousands of years of Imperial mindset and justice vs. 1 year of Republic rule - with much of the latter being spent merely trying to survive the tyranny and attacks of this lady Hitler.
This. Instead of Uhlan Tal Whitebread questioning her in Federation style, she SHOULD be AT LEAST questioned via high-tech mind probes, truth serum, and/or Reman telepathy. And before you claim those are too barbaric:
1) Mind probes: In "The Enterprise Incident", the Romulan Commander (military, not Tal Shiar) proposed mind probing Kirk, and only relented because Spock (apparently) gave her the information she wanted voluntarily.
2) Truth Serum: Spock (yes, FEDERATION STARFLEET Spock) suggested it's use on Prof. Crater in "Man Trap" in order to get information on the Salt Vampire's identity, which the Prof. was unwilling to give. He was actually on his way to sick bay to supervise the procedure when he was attacked and disabled by the creature and Crater.
3) Telepathy: Again, Spock (still good, old FEDERATION STARFLEET Spock) did this to question Valeris against her will in "The Undiscovered Country". He did this in full view of the bridge crew of the Enterprise, and nobody made any attempt to even speak up for her. And SHE was only a traitor and conspirator, not a raving genocidal maniac/war criminal/tyrannical head of an enemy empire!
Personally, although I like and admire Denise Crosby, and enjoyed Sela's introduction in TNG, I think that the character has LONG outlived her usefulness and credibility. The day when she is finally executed will be a day of rejoicing in both the Republic AND the Star Empire.
[EDIT: typo.]
Always curious how people can fume with righteous indignation and then turn around and perform actions just as reprehensible, while claim moral superiority without a hint of irony.
It's a positively Tal Shiar/RSE sort of attitude. Yet that seems fact seems to fall flat for a lot of players/Cryptic themselves...
IMO we should have a 'nasty' way of extracting her information, and a 'friendly' one...like we used to have in a lot of earlier episodes. I'll be disappointed if players aren't allowed to have extensive conversations with her.
D'trel would bring her shrink and a few of his cousins from the KDF mindhound corps and leave 'em to it.
This! Just....this.
You're not the only one who finds that very interesting. So many people advocating the very things that the RSE/Tal Shiar are infamous for.
To treat Sela the way the RSE/Tal Shiar treats their prisoners would make us no better than she is. I thought the Republic was better than that.
This is exactly what I was thinking. This sort of double-standard seems to be the main justification for the way the Republic has played out.
ooc:
Im glad they're continuing to show the RR with a bit more of an a$$hole side still, but this guy doesn't deserve the title 'interrogator' and I really wish they'd stop with the Romulan = incompetent buffoon theme all together.
It makes sense if you think about it.
My Mind to your mind. My thoughts to your thoughts. The Vulcan Mind Meld is not just strict mind reading. It's mind merging. It's a two way street. If Spock had "mind *****" her as people suggest, he would also have experienced the telepathic violence. He would have the same scars he would know precisely how it felt. But consider that he was her mentor. So after the mind meld, she was resigned. Why? Because she also got a window into his feelings. His sense of betrayal and perhaps the most devastating thing any parent figure can give. His utter disappointment in her choices.
As for how to interrogate Sela, the interrogator did play it wrong with the guard. Don't reassign his TRIBBLE. Use him. She wants to talk to him? Let her talk. She wants to manipulate him, let her. Use him as an in. Use holotechnology, simulate a jailbreak, give him a chance to "prove" his loyalty. Train him to her to open up. If she doesn't bite, or she feeds him bull ****, you're in no worse position. As the Tamarians might say, "Degra and Archer in the shuttle" (ENT: Strategem)
On the other hand, she may give away the farm. Then you can still put her on trial and sentence her as you see fit.
True. Sela as usual overvalues herself.
That said she is also using the Republic's ideals against them. She knows they want to be better than the empire, she knows that they want to move past the history of torture, she knows that they want to create something enlightened. It's a classic villain move. It's the Joker pushing someone out the window because he knows that Batman will save the innocent first every time instead of capturing him.
D'Tan is NOT in the Federation's back pocket.
Otherwise Jarok would've never pulled that stunt she tried in the Jenolan Sphere. Their taking the lead on the Solanae Sphere, using the excuse that it is within their sphere of influence is BS. The reason the that Romulans run Dyson Joint Command is because they're the only ones the Federation and the Klingons trusted at that point. Note that in the Delta Command there are three commanders one from each faction.
D'Tan is good and his heart is in the right place (above his stomach), but he's still made some rookie mistakes trying raise the Republic into the superpower the empire was. Ignoring the Undine threat is a prime example.
Some good old fashioned, Commander Shepard Paragon/Renegade choice structure, I like it, I like it a lot.
If there's anything Enterprise did right, it was to point out how morally wrong forcing such an interaction would be on an unwilling subject.
One of the things I find disturbing about NU Trek Spock is his readiness to use mindmelds on the unwilling at the drop of a hat.
I caught that as well. The simple answer, they let her (and you) go.
Long answer? They were busy and not paying attention at the moment lol
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
at least ask them why they have thaloron equipped dreds
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
As I said, I prefer the novelization's interpretation.
That is notable, the whole bridge crew looked shocked and appalled.
The alternative was the death of Federation President and the Klingon Chancellor and a war between the Federation and Klingons that likely would've resulted in war that could only be dwarfed by the Dominion War and the likely annihilation of the Klingon people as we know them.
It's the difference between justifiable and necessary.
Klingons, on the other hand...
I thought the novel's explanation was a copout.
It was necessary, and sometimes horrible things are necessary. But that doesn't mean that such horrible actions can and should be done without any sort of negative consequences.
We all know what the Klingons would do
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
Why would you say Romulan Republic/Federation?
It's SOLELY the Romulan Republic here.
While D'Tan was raised and mentored with Vulcan principles, he's still a Romulan.
Im waiting for a dev to comment on our comments that say we want to personally put her through many kinds of torture
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
I disagree with it being a copout because I feel it's consistent with the mechanics behind what we know about Vulcan telepathy.
We've heard many times that after a mind meld, the participants are a part of each other from that day forward, to the point that Spock was able to touch a piece of his father by mind melding with Picard. If you look at the emotion on Spock's face in the scene it's clear that it was a shared experience.
That said, I'm not sure what the punishment for forced telepathic contact is under Vulcan law or Starfleet regulation. Would it qualify as a misdemeanor or a felony. It's clearly not the same type of violation as Shinzon and his Viceroy assaulting Deanna, or the time that guy was projecting himself into her mind, or the telepath that was transmitting his negative energy onto her thus rapidly aging her.
Also this was clearly something discussed as Spock melded with her at Kirk's prompting, meaning it was possibly an order.
Someone should probably look into what kind of regulations Starfleet would have for telepathy in Intelligence or tactical situations.
What do you think an appropriate punishment would have been under the circumstances?
I wouldn't kill her yet. As she has to answer for her crimes and be questioned for what she knows about the Iconians and what happened after her capture or getting help from them. For a chance to learn about them will go away if she dies fast.
Granted some want her dead right away. I rather get all the info I could, then deal with her on a trial. Where she will answer for all her war crimes.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Once establishing a source for views, be it God or something else, then you have a basis to work with. Remember, STO, Star Trek, appeals to an international community. Not all nations agree on the role of their governments nor even themselves with relation to their respective governments. Assigning an undefined governing role to the Romulan Republic without a foundation can ultimately be devastating.
It would be incumbent of all parties/factions to have treaties in place in full recognition of the facts that surround different walks of life and governing bodies. This could be difficult since to date only D'Tan has been viewed as a governing position. There has been no other means established that actually formulate a Republic. No one speaks of decisions being made in the House or Senate, nor a counsel, nor a Parliament, nor any other formation. D'Tan is often referred to as leading his people, but his people are in the millions. Are Romulans without independent thought as individuals? Is there never discourse?
The story writers at STO can easily fix this oversight and with just a single, or maybe two, episodes that would be excellent for highlighting values as well as combative action against those who would seek to undermine the Republic. The Tal Shiar would certainly have an interest.
In my view, absent of the afore mentioned governmental establishment, the only way to deal with Sela is via a military tribunal and as such could be nearly anything the mind can conjure, be it right or wrong in the eyes of those who participate whether it's the outcome of the writers imagination or the Captains who play the role or a combination of both. I would much prefer the Republic be in full swing first. That's to say nothing of the story line opportunity it presents.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.