Federation would have no standing to demand anything, but Republic officers certainly could and some probably would. Interesting question would be what does/doesn't D'Tan know?
I'm sick of D Tan that simpering quibbling gutless infantile obtuse Dbag!!! Sela rise up kill the Dtan and lead the Empire whoops I'm sorry Republic
Personally.. if it had been my call during the mission.. so sad.. My mission report would have noted that "Several Romulan prisoner help in captivity by the Iconian's proxy's were killed during the assault. A number of bodies were not recovered, and there was insufficient time or remains in a number of cases to properly identify the decedents."
Honestly. Sela is just not going to have in any way shape or form any truly useful information on the Iconians.. The Iconians have been keeping secrets for well over 100,000 years. And they are past experts at manipulation. Anything she learned from them, or of them is what THEY let her learn, because what she think she knows is utterly unimportant. Personally, the only reason I see for her to be in the hands of the alliance is because the Iconians WANTED her in the hands of the alliance. Primarily because she's a fantastic distraction.. and could do quite well at as cats paw.
Plot holes you can drive a Galaxy through.. and I'm not talk'n the starship class.
The Iconians have 100,000 plus years of technological advancement over the Delta Alliance. We can use their gateways... but can't build them ourselves. The Dyson spheres were built FOR them..
Now, Odds are good they're fairly static in their growth.. and might even be a dying race..
((and where or where does the T'kon empire figure into this.. were they an Iconian enemy? Enterprise-D made contact with the "Guardian" of outpost 63 ... a planet sized defense installation.. likely just the right size to tear up a dyson sphere.... Maybe we need to go have a little sit down with that fellow eh? -)) TNG-S1-E5 we meet the ferengi for the first time also.
This is good. I think the Republic is doing ok trying to get answers. Putting her in a cell with nothing to do is a good place for her. Until we get some answers.
Go back and read the damn thing again, Lt. Seken did a very bad job.
How to interrogate Empress Sela 101: Read: Mind and Physical Torture and R@pe 101 (Romulan Edition) and then post it on youtube, show it to her, and read her the comments
Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
For those who say that the Federation and the Empire have no leverage over the Republic, you forget that the Republic needs the other factions more than they need the Republic, the Feds and Klinks only want the technology and if the RSE wasn't so malicious they would probably be willing to come to some arrangement with them.
The Republic on the other hand need the fleets available to the Feds and Klinks to defend their space, they need their resources to build their cities and ships. The Republic took a gamble dictating the Iconian gateway was in Romulan space, if the Feds and Klinks decided they didn't like the arrangements they could easily take the gate, there would be two two way engagements Fed+KDF vs Rom because to not declare the enemy of my enemy my friend is just silly, and then there would be a Fed v KDF battle for the gate and lets face it, the Feds and the KDF could defend the spheres without the help of the small number of Romulan ships available.
So yeah, both factions have rather a lot of leverage, slightly underhanded admittedly but it's there.
You will find that people are not as cut and dried as they'd like to believe. As much as people like to preach high ideals we resort to our baser instincts when it's someone who has hurt us. Sela has done a lot of wrong to a lot of people...especially the Romulans...in the face of their greatest boogey-woman they don't care if she gets a fair trial...they want to hurt her the way she hurt them...regardless if it's right or wrong.
And Romulans have an intense relationship with revenge. Mnheisahe is described as a code that governs their passion.
Revenge is a passionate thing. Sela is many things. A traitor, someone who condoned and participated in the torture of her people, a tyrant, and of course a first tier liar.
For the Romulans I'm sure it's a personal struggle. At the moment they seem to be erring on the side of, if we just give in and kill her then we'll be just like her, and something like that could be a stretch to far for Romulan honor.
Mnhei'sahe The Ruling Passion: a concept or concept-complex which rules most of Rihannsu life in terms of honor. Mnhei'sahe is primarily occupied with courtesy to people around one: this courtesy, depending on circumstances, may require killing a person to do him honor, or severely disadvantaging one's self on his behalf. There are ramifications too involved to go into, but generally, mnhei'sahe is satisfied if all the parties to an agreement or situation feel that their "face" or honor is intact after a social (or other) transaction. NB: the concept has been occasionally mistranslated as implying that a given action is done "for a person's good." This is incorrect: such a concept literally does not exist in Rihannsu. One does things for one's own good-- or rather, the good of one's honor-- and if properly carried out, the actions in question will have benefitted the other parties in the transaction as well.
Enterprise linguist Lieutenant Janice Kerasus described mnhei'sahe as such, "...not quite honor-- not quite loyalty-- and not quite anger or hatred or about fifty other things. It can be a form of hatred that requires you to give your last drop of water to a thirsty enemy-- or an act of love that requires you to kill a friend."
Just rage killing her is NOT Romulan style. They aren't stupid culturally or otherwise.
I think they know she's trying to TRIBBLE them off on one level. If they just kill her then they lose. They get nothing from her, and whatever execution may be too swift in any event to be satisfying.
Torturing her may remove them from the moral high ground, which could also be described as a loss.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
The Republic has entered into treaties with the Federation. We know From TNG S6E11, Chain of Command Part 2, that the Federation engages its allies and neighbors in treaties specifically concerning the treatment of prisoners of war.
The Federation has no authority here, outside of whatever the Delta Expedition agreements were.
The Federation President proclaimed himself that treaties with the Romulans, such as the Treaty of Algeron, were declared null and void when Romulus fell and the old RSE 'ceased to exist.' So any of those treaties on... anything else? No dice, Feddies. Can't pick and choose what treaties still apply :cool:
Exactly. Just because the Republic isn't as bad as the Star Empire used to be, doesn't mean we adhere to the same regulations and principles that Starfleet religiously follows. Personally, I'm always glad when we get instances where that shows, like the Romulan player character shooting Hakeev instead of Obisek, or Jarok pretty much wanting to do the same when we first captured Sela.
Agreed - nice little points of differentiation. When I first ran that mission where we got Hakeev... yeah, I was really happy with that resolution. Very Romulan.
I find it interesting how many Republic players here are demanding torture/grisly execution for her actions.
Always curious how people can fume with righteous indignation and then turn around and perform actions just as reprehensible, while claim moral superiority without a hint of irony.
The Republic is not the RSE, but we're still Romulan. Just because the Federation doesn't feel Romulan sentiments are morally correct, doesn't mean that they aren't morally correct to Romulans. The Federation is the king of irony, where 'understanding other cultures' is more about absorbing and controlling them.
That said, I think any Romulan with green blood coursing through their veins feels intense desire to see Sela pay dearly for her crimes. So many lives lost by her order... it's sickening. But that's why I'm not one of the higher-ups controlling her more-or-less pleasant detention. And credit to the interviewer - by session 28, I'd have probably lost my cool with her. Was hard enough ordering Jarok to stand down after a few seconds with Sela.
Either way, time will tell what information she may be willing to give. And then she'll be dealt with accordingly. I'm very interested to see how Republic law will handle this.
The mind meld was clearly nonconsensual in nature and Valeris was definitely going through some discomfort trying to fight it. The fact that the movie never acknowledges the ethical problem of this scene or the consequences is probably the biggest failing in what is otherwise my favorite Trek Movie.
Enterprise gave the issue the attention it deserved by at least acknowledging that such an action was deeply reprehensible.
IMO Spock and Kirk should have faced sort of consequence for it. the fact that he was retiring already probably allowed Kirk avoid further punishment.
The Republic is not the RSE, but we're still Romulan. Just because the Federation doesn't feel Romulan sentiments are morally correct, doesn't mean that they aren't morally correct to Romulans. The Federation is the king of irony, where 'understanding other cultures' is more about absorbing and controlling them.
That said, I think any Romulan with green blood coursing through their veins feels intense desire to see Sela pay dearly for her crimes. So many lives lost by her order... it's sickening. But that's why I'm not one of the higher-ups controlling her more-or-less pleasant detention. And credit to the interviewer - by session 28, I'd have probably lost my cool with her. Was hard enough ordering Jarok to stand down after a few seconds with Sela.
Either way, time will tell what information she may be willing to give. And then she'll be dealt with accordingly. I'm very interested to see how Republic law will handle this.
The problem is that Cryptic and many players want to have their cake and eat it too.
It wouldn't be as much of a problem if Cryptic Just made the Star Empire playable. But Cryptic has set the Republic up as a 'good guy' faction and takes every opportunity to remind players how different they are from the Empire by writing the Empire as brain-dead comically evil. Thus making any hostile action against them, no matter how severe 'justifiable'. thus facilitating players getting their 'righteous indignation' on without having to worry about moral implications of actions.
Pretty standard 'dark n' edgy' by the numbers tripe, IMO. As long as Cryptic continues to make moral issues like this un-point-outable either by NPCs or PCs.
The Republic is not the RSE, but we're still Romulan. Just because the Federation doesn't feel Romulan sentiments are morally correct, doesn't mean that they aren't morally correct to Romulans. The Federation is the king of irony, where 'understanding other cultures' is more about absorbing and controlling them.
That said, I think any Romulan with green blood coursing through their veins feels intense desire to see Sela pay dearly for her crimes. So many lives lost by her order... it's sickening. But that's why I'm not one of the higher-ups controlling her more-or-less pleasant detention. And credit to the interviewer - by session 28, I'd have probably lost my cool with her. Was hard enough ordering Jarok to stand down after a few seconds with Sela.
Either way, time will tell what information she may be willing to give. And then she'll be dealt with accordingly. I'm very interested to see how Republic law will handle this.
An overblown interpretation.
Understanding other cultures doesn't mean agreeing with them. The Federation will happily unite with cultures that agree and coincide with their values, and are happy to live and let live with cultures that don't.
A few bad eggs doing otherwise, or Captains in time of war going against that grain doesn't turn the whole Federation into hypocrites, it just means there's enough leeway that not everyone adheres to the ideals perfectly every time. Not every Starfleet officer is Picard.
As for Romulan revenge, they may have to clone Sela a few times so she could be executed on multiple occasions to satisfy that. Nero wasn't an outlier, he was just the one who took it the hardest and had the biggest ship.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Understanding other cultures doesn't mean agreeing with them. The Federation will happily unite with cultures that agree and coincide with their values, and are happy to live and let live with cultures that don't.
That remains to be seen. The Federation gets rather preachy with their allies. If they leave Sela to the Republic - where she belongs - then I'll be impressed.
As for Romulan revenge, they may have to clone Sela a few times so she could be executed on multiple occasions to satisfy that. Nero wasn't an outlier, he was just the one who took it the hardest and had the biggest ship.
Yeah, this will get interesting. I'm a Republic player first and foremost, and... yeah, I'm going to have a hard time being agreeable if I'm forced to play alongside Sela. Mad props and respect to Denise Crosby for being the awesome, dedicated Trek actress she is, and I'm glad she keeps coming back to do VO. But dayum... if Sela's going to be involved in this mission, it better be me getting pre-launch information from her while she's behind bars, then I go off and do whatever needs to be done. Then a post-mission debrief with her, and back to trial she goes.
Wait, they're not allowing Sena to have legal counsel or reading material? What, do they just have her sit there in solitary 24/7?
Pretty sure that's actual torture.
Under Federation law, yes. Under Republic law, probably not. Though we're definitely seeing that the Republic is (thankfully) a lot softer on their political prisoners than the old RSE ever was.
Despite my earlier ramblings, I do think the Republic is still handling her with kid gloves, even if we're not being as "accommodating" as some in Starfleet would have us be, specifically because we don't want D'tan or Starfleet finding out and having conniptions.
Many forget that this is the Federation of 2410.
They won't bat an eye if the RRF uses more....persuasive techniques to extract intelligence from Sela.
If Sela was given the hard treatment (not necessarily physical torture), and it became public? The only thing the Federation would do is:
1. Some politicians will give lofty public, feel-good statements to the media "condemning" such treatment. To score brownie points with the voters who still buy into the whole UFP blinding idealism schtick, of course. Not to mention, try to placate some of the more idealistic elements still in the Federation Council in the meantime, to avoid some diplomatic/political stink until something useful can come from Sela's questioning,
2. Starfleet will invoke General Order One, and not take any action. Starfleet Command will mostly refuse comment other than saying "Prime Directive. Internal Romulan Matter. Next Question..."
3. Behind the scenes, Starfleet Intelligence and Section 31 will get some juicy intel from our friends in the RRF, and it will hopefully help ensure the security and safety of the UFP, and the galaxy at large.
As far as D'Tan goes, there are hints that demonstrate that he does have a pragmatic streak, and his idealism isn't blinding. He maybe a politician, statesman, and diplomat, but I serious doubt (based on past hints) he's the kind that would allow another near-extinction level event to befall his people on the basis of philosophical posturing, and feel-good bull****.
Sela isn't just some common street crook or POW. She had a major part to play in the betrayal and near-destruction of the Romulan people. A scheme for power that cost the lives of billions of Romulans and Remans. She's as much to blame for the Big Sell Out as Hakeev and Taris. She is a special case who holds information that could mean the survival, or destruction, of the civilizations of the galaxy at the hands of the Iconians. As a matter of practicality and urgency, she should be handled differently.
If the RRF can't get it done, then bring in Commander Mena. Or, barring that, bring in our favorite Imperial spymaster K'men and his crew. I betcha a hundred credits they could get the information easily and efficiently.
Of course, this is from my in-universe perspective (i.e. how I would roll with it). Ultimately, it's up to Cryptic's writing staff on how this will play out.
Personally.. if it had been my call during the mission.. so sad.. My mission report would have noted that "Several Romulan prisoner help in captivity by the Iconian's proxy's were killed during the assault. A number of bodies were not recovered, and there was insufficient time or remains in a number of cases to properly identify the decedents."
I wouldn't have passed up on the chance to throw Sela in a cage myself.
Honestly. Sela is just not going to have in any way shape or form any truly useful information on the Iconians.. The Iconians have been keeping secrets for well over 100,000 years. And they are past experts at manipulation. Anything she learned from them, or of them is what THEY let her learn, because what she think she knows is utterly unimportant. Personally, the only reason I see for her to be in the hands of the alliance is because the Iconians WANTED her in the hands of the alliance. Primarily because she's a fantastic distraction.. and could do quite well at as cats paw.
All possible.
But the Republic and the alliance can't deal with her until they ascertain what she knows. It's bad, but for now keeping her alive is the better move. Even if in the end all she does is eat up replicator rations.
Plot holes you can drive a Galaxy through.. and I'm not talk'n the starship class.
The Iconians have 100,000 plus years of technological advancement over the Delta Alliance. We can use their gateways... but can't build them ourselves. The Dyson spheres were built FOR them..
Now, Odds are good they're fairly static in their growth.. and might even be a dying race..
And? The Voth have 65 million years on us. That said of course Static growth is the answer. Though considering they have instantaneous long distance teleportation technology, the resources to get their underlings to build Dyson's shells, can construct bases wholly in other spatial domains, can genetically mutate and engineer other species, AND according to Taris have time travel abilities that would allow them to undo the Hobus Supernova; they may not have had the necessity to advance any further.
I find it interesting that Iconia was devastated by simple orbital bombardment. If the Iconians were that far ahead, then how did their former servants manage to get the one up on them? They're extremely powerful, but I don't think there's evidence that they're so far ahead of us that we can't catch up or fight back.
((and where or where does the T'kon empire figure into this.. were they an Iconian enemy? Enterprise-D made contact with the "Guardian" of outpost 63 ... a planet sized defense installation.. likely just the right size to tear up a dyson sphere.... Maybe we need to go have a little sit down with that fellow eh? -)) TNG-S1-E5 we meet the ferengi for the first time also.
The TKon were 600 thousand years ago while the Iconians ended 200 thousand years ago, so it's entirely possible that the Iconians rose from the power vacuum that accompanied the TKon's extinction. Considering the technological abilities of the TKon (The Tkon had the ability to move entire star systems, using planets as outposts for defense.) All Iconian technology could be tech they inherited/found/reverse engineered from the TKon.
For those who say that the Federation and the Empire have no leverage over the Republic, you forget that the Republic needs the other factions more than they need the Republic, the Feds and Klinks only want the technology and if the RSE wasn't so malicious they would probably be willing to come to some arrangement with them.
The Republic on the other hand need the fleets available to the Feds and Klinks to defend their space, they need their resources to build their cities and ships. The Republic took a gamble dictating the Iconian gateway was in Romulan space, if the Feds and Klinks decided they didn't like the arrangements they could easily take the gate, there would be two two way engagements Fed+KDF vs Rom because to not declare the enemy of my enemy my friend is just silly, and then there would be a Fed v KDF battle for the gate and lets face it, the Feds and the KDF could defend the spheres without the help of the small number of Romulan ships available.
So yeah, both factions have rather a lot of leverage, slightly underhanded admittedly but it's there.
The only issue is that no one can fight amongst themselves at the moment. The Federation and the Empire need all hands on deck right now. Any disunity is an opening the Iconians can use.
The mind meld was clearly nonconsensual in nature and Valeris was definitely going through some discomfort trying to fight it. The fact that the movie never acknowledges the ethical problem of this scene or the consequences is probably the biggest failing in what is otherwise my favorite Trek Movie.
Enterprise gave the issue the attention it deserved by at least acknowledging that such an action was deeply reprehensible.
IMO Spock and Kirk should have faced sort of consequence for it. the fact that he was retiring already probably allowed Kirk avoid further punishment.
OF COURSE it was non-consensual, I'm talking about the fact that at around the halfway point she cooperated. (the part where they were speaking in unison).
I disagree that the movie didn't acknowledge it. They weren't going to stick a scene at the end of the film with an Admiral bringing Kirk and Spock up on charges. But the Enterprise crew did not look ok with it. Not everything has to be spelled out. I felt that the scene itself a decade before Enterprise showed in the emotion of the scene that it was reprehensible. Spock was on the verge of tears when he broke the meld.
You have still failed to say what punishment you think would be appropriate.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Actually, my friend, she did commit crimes against both the Federation and the Klingon Empire for which she has not stood trial.
1.) Against the Federation - Kidnapping of a Starfleet Officer, sending an imposter in his place for the brainwashing of captured officer, using captured officer as an infiltrator to kill a Klingon Governor to start a Civil War on a colony world near the Klingon/Federation boarder. In short, an act of espionage. [TNG Season 4 Episode 'The Mind's Eye']
2.) Against the Klingon Empire - Assisted Klingon criminals from the dishonored House of Duras against the legitimate Klingon government led by Chancellor Gowron, thus creating the Klingon Civil War of 2367-2368. [TNG Season 4/5 Episodes 'Redemption Parts 1 and 2']
3.) Against the Federation (Specifically against Vulcan) - Stealing surplus ships from the Qualar II Surplus yard in an attempt to conquer Vulcan by way of a Holographic Ambassador Spock publically endorsing Vulcan/Romulan Reunification that was essentially an Invasion by any other name. [TNG Season 5 Episodes 'Unification Parts 1 and 2']
With that being said, I would very much like to see where this leads storywise in the upcoming Iconian War.
Just out a bit of curiosity, when will the extragalactic threat of the Kelvins become a problem?
These crimes were all when she wasn't empress, her superiors should be held accountable, but they're probably long dead now.
Considering her crimes, I personally wouldn't want to do anything to her, keep her locked up, feed her a daily meal and let her rot. Circumstances though, dictate otherwise. She has inside information on the Iconians, that as of right now, the Alliance only dreams they could have. A deal has to be struck. War with the Iconians is drawing nearer and nearer and all information would be helpful. Considering her crimes were against ALL parties, I hardly deem it fair for only the RR to deal with her. I believe, that in the best interests of the RR, Fed, and KDF, we need a deal, we need the information. Yes she deserves much worse, but this is war, something HAS to give. I would rather give her some leeway and get the information, then keep her locked up and get nothing and have THAT much harder time fighting with the Iconians. Dealing with the her later will be easier then the Iconians and I personally think she would want some revenge.
That remains to be seen. The Federation gets rather preachy with their allies. If they leave Sela to the Republic - where she belongs - then I'll be impressed.
Well so far they have.
And we turned her over as soon as the mission was done.
Yeah, this will get interesting. I'm a Republic player first and foremost, and... yeah, I'm going to have a hard time being agreeable if I'm forced to play alongside Sela. Mad props and respect to Denise Crosby for being the awesome, dedicated Trek actress she is, and I'm glad she keeps coming back to do VO. But dayum... if Sela's going to be involved in this mission, it better be me getting pre-launch information from her while she's behind bars, then I go off and do whatever needs to be done. Then a post-mission debrief with her, and back to trial she goes.
I'm curious about Denise's ideas for a Sela redemption.
That said, I would find it interesting to have to go on a mission with her.
Think about the affably evil banter, the disguised insults and death threats!
It would be so...quintessentially Romulan to have to fight alongside her restraining yourself from shooting her in the back and always forcing her to go first so she won't do the same to you.
Under Federation law, yes. Under Republic law, probably not. Though we're definitely seeing that the Republic is (thankfully) a lot softer on their political prisoners than the old RSE ever was.
They won't bat an eye if the RRF uses more....persuasive techniques to extract intelligence from Sela.
Honestly there isn't much they could do in any event. Any human could understand why they're want to torture her to within an inch of her life.
That doesn't mean they condone it. Hell the Federation stuck Taris in a cell and left her there. 2410 UFP isn't some dystopian monstrosity, we're just at war.
If Sela was given the hard treatment (not necessarily physical torture), and it became public? The only thing the Federation would do is:
1. Some politicians will give lofty public, feel-good statements to the media "condemning" such treatment. To score brownie points with the voters who still buy into the whole UFP blinding idealism schtick, of course. Not to mention, try to placate some of the more idealistic elements still in the Federation Council in the meantime, to avoid some diplomatic/political stink until something useful can come from Sela's questioning,
I doubt it.
2. Starfleet will invoke General Order One, and not take any action. Starfleet Command will mostly refuse comment other than saying "Prime Directive. Internal Romulan Matter. Next Question..."
Bingo.
3. Behind the scenes, Starfleet Intelligence and Section 31 will get some juicy intel from our friends in the RRF, and it will hopefully help ensure the security and safety of the UFP, and the galaxy at large.
More than likely though their work would be cut out for them trying to verify what she said, since torture can be infamously unreliable. Do you really think she would give them good information under torture? They don't even have a baseline to corroborate her with. She's literally their only witness.
As far as D'Tan goes, there are hints that demonstrate that he does have a pragmatic streak, and his idealism isn't blinding. He maybe a politician, statesman, and diplomat, but I serious doubt (based on past hints) he's the kind that would allow another near-extinction level event to befall his people on the basis of philosophical posturing, and feel-good bull****.
All true. I think he's shown a few signs that he's a little cocky with the high level of success he's had thus far. But overall he's taking many of the best parts of what Spock taught him.
Sela isn't just some common street crook or POW. She had a major part to play in the betrayal and near-destruction of the Romulan people. A scheme for power that cost the lives of billions of Romulans and Remans. She's as much to blame for the Big Sell Out as Hakeev and Taris. She is a special case who holds information that could mean the survival, or destruction, of the civilizations of the galaxy at the hands of the Iconians. As a matter of practicality and urgency, she should be handled differently.
All true, but I wouldn't place her in the same space as Taris and Hakeev though. For all the TRIBBLE she's done, she wasn't responsible for the Hobus Supernova.
If the RRF can't get it done, then bring in Commander Mena. Or, barring that, bring in our favorite Imperial spymaster K'men and his crew. I betcha a hundred credits they could get the information easily and efficiently.
As a Starfleet officer I say, let's not get carried away. As a Soldier of the Republic I say, Mena! Mena! Mena! or Even Rai. As a warrior I say, to hell with K'Men let me "talk" to her.
Of course, this is from my in-universe perspective (i.e. how I would roll with it). Ultimately, it's up to Cryptic's writing staff on how this will play out.
Will we ever see the Reman's living quarters? Coming Season 15, lol.
Man that's a great point. The environmental team is certainly busy. New sector space and we don't even know if they're adding anything to Risa yet, nor any of the new things they haven't mentioned yet/
But I'd love to go to the Reman section. And where is Obisek?
Considering her crimes, I personally wouldn't want to do anything to her, keep her locked up, feed her a daily meal and let her rot. Circumstances though, dictate otherwise. She has inside information on the Iconians, that as of right now, the Alliance only dreams they could have. A deal has to be struck. War with the Iconians is drawing nearer and nearer and all information would be helpful. Considering her crimes were against ALL parties, I hardly deem it fair for only the RR to deal with her. I believe, that in the best interests of the RR, Fed, and KDF, we need a deal, we need the information.
Didn't they say she would be put up for a joint tribunal or that she would be extradited after her trial.
It's an interesting note that as a Romulan she'll be looking at 150 more years of life easy. 50 years in a Romulan prison, 50 years on a Federation Asteroid, and round it out with 50 years in "The Gulag Rura Penthe".
Yes she deserves much worse, but this is war, something HAS to give. I would rather give her some leeway and get the information, then keep her locked up and get nothing and have THAT much harder time fighting with the Iconians. Dealing with the her later will be easier then the Iconians and I personally think she would want some revenge.
Agreed, The needs of the many. If her keeping her trap shuts means the Iconians win the war, then killing, I mean punishing her loses priority
Stay tuned and watch how Crpytic turns Romulan Hitler into a hero! :rolleyes:
She's more Stalin to me.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
OF COURSE it was non-consensual, I'm talking about the fact that at around the halfway point she cooperated. (the part where they were speaking in unison).
I disagree that the movie didn't acknowledge it. They weren't going to stick a scene at the end of the film with an Admiral bringing Kirk and Spock up on charges. But the Enterprise crew did not look ok with it. Not everything has to be spelled out. I felt that the scene itself a decade before Enterprise showed in the emotion of the scene that it was reprehensible. Spock was on the verge of tears when he broke the meld.
You have still failed to say what punishment you think would be appropriate.
Or he had dominated her mind with the mind meld by that point. There's nothing at all in the scene that indicates that she was 'cooperating' with it. Look at all the pain she is exhibiting when Spock tries to extract the knowledge of the peace conference location from her.
Yes, Spock, Valeris, and the entire bridge crew looked uncomfortable (at least). Which immediately made it very, very creepy. And distressing considering Spock and Kirk (apparently) never faced any sort of consequences for their actions. They acknowledge that it's wrong, they don't acknowledge any sort of consequences for it.
Demotion or being forcibly retired would seem appropriate at least. But considering Kirk was retiring anyways, not much of an option.
Or he had dominated her mind with the mind meld by that point. There's nothing at all in the scene that indicates that she was 'cooperating' with it. Look at all the pain she is exhibiting when Spock tries to extract the knowledge of the peace conference location from her.
Well we stand in disagreement, which happens.
Yes, Spock, Valeris, and the entire bridge crew looked uncomfortable (at least). Which immediately made it very, very creepy. And distressing considering Spock and Kirk (apparently) never faced any sort of consequences for their actions. They acknowledge that it's wrong, they don't acknowledge any sort of consequences for it.
I didn't find it creepy, just...sad. Very very sad.
It was an emotionally draining part of the movie in any case.
Demotion or being forcibly retired would seem appropriate at least. But considering Kirk was retiring anyways, not much of an option.
Considering the end of The Voyage Home, we know that the Federation Council considers circumstances when handing out punishments.
Kirk stole and destroyed the Enterprise and almost incited a war with the Klingons, but he did happen to save her from annihilation....again. So he gets demoted to Captain.
In the Undiscovered Country case, the argument would be, this officer who had murdered two other officers was assaulted in order to recover information that was then critical to dismantle a conspiracy that would have directly led to the assassination of both the President and the Chancellor and led to a war with the Klingon Empire.
I don't see how that flies.
"Will you consent to a mind meld?"
"No."
Ordering her to submit to the mind meld?
Unlawful order. If it was that simple, then she would have just told them.
She was a willing participant in the conspiracy and had killed two other Starfleet officers to keep it secret.
There was literally no other way as written.
The needs of the many.
It should be noted that after 9/11 and the Patriot Act Nicholas Meyer is troubled by the scene now.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
It was emotionally draining for me as well. It was sad to see things come to that. But I also think it was Kirk and Spock's single greatest moral failure. I think Spock at least recognized that. I don't mind the scene (great acting) so much as the aftermath.
leagues better handling then Spock's rampant mind-melding in Nu Trek though, IMO.
Yes. Hence why I don't think Kirk or Spock would have gotten prison, which would be appropriate under other circumstances, I think. I would hope that they at least got a reprimand over it. And I'd like to think that Kirks retirement became less of choice and more as a necessity after that.
It should be noted that after 9/11 and the Patriot Act Nicholas Meyer is troubled by the scene now.
For good reason IMO. If memory serves, similar reasons were behind the rewrite of the scene when it came around to the novel. The scene comes across as very rapey in the movie.
I would let Tovan have a go at her so that my sister Tiva'raau (Tovan's new wife) and I could count how long until Tovan would lunge across the table and strangle Sela
Thank you, I just edited it to correct it. I always like to have misspelling pointed out so that I know what to look out for next time.
I also returned the favor. Between the two of us, we may be able to type a post without mistakes. lol.
Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
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Yes, Spock, Valeris, and the entire bridge crew looked uncomfortable (at least).
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Part of my point in bringing up the Spock/Valeris incident in the first place was that while (as you correctly point out) the entire bridge crew of the Enterprise - the finest group of officers in Starfleet, and our heroes for decades by that point - did look uncomfortable with it, none of them so much as lodged a protest.
While the circumstances were of critical importance to the Federation and Klingon Empire, they PALE in comparison to the far-reaching threat of the Iconians, not only to those two powers but to everyone else: the RR, the RSE, the Undine, the Borg (liberated and un-), etc., etc., etc.
And most importantly, it's not the Federation even handling Sela, it's the RR. While the KDF would stop at nothing, and even the best of the Federation (as shown above) are at least willing to stand by and let forcible mind-probing go on if circumstances call for it, the RR should certainly be in the middle ground with a more sliding scale of justice and situational morality. They probably wouldn't go for using the Mind Sifter on jaywalkers and litterbugs (where the KDF might), but with a need to get information QUICKLY from an uber-villainess like Sela, I don't think they would even given it a second thought. In her case, and in their hands, she should have been wheeled straight into mind probe/truth serum/telepathic interrogation as soon as she arrived on New Romulus, even supposing it hadn't already been a fait accompli the second she was beamed aboard the Lleiset.
To pass off that lame conversation as Debriefing Session #28 is a joke. Heck, we have Telepathic Interrogation Technique DOFF missions for crying out loud!
This really puts us true Romulans in an untenable situation.
On the one hand we have the 1/2 breed "empress" that needs to go and really her execution cant come soon enough.
On the other hand, our sovereign is being held by seditious traitors lead by a well known terrorist that's a puppet federation regime.
So though it pains me,
FREE SELA
I hope we get the chance to testify at her trial, at least. Either in defense of her or condemning her actions.
If Kirk could get a lawyer in a Klingon court after supposedly taking part of the assassination of Gorkon, Sela should at least be able to get a Klingon, Romulan or Federation individual to defend her. Would be neat if the Player character had the option of stepping in for that.
The problem I see is that there isn't an immediate need to get that information right now, like there was with Valeris. plenty of time to get it done the normal way. Particularly with the Federation looking over the Republic's shoulder.
As an Admiral of Starfleet, with large concerns for the security of the Alliance.. I demand she be remanded to the custody of the KDF for more "reasonable" treatment and interrogation.. yes Reasonable.. (ie: effective- if you can crack an Undine, you can crack a megalomaniac human romulan)
Comments
I'm sick of D Tan that simpering quibbling gutless infantile obtuse Dbag!!! Sela rise up kill the Dtan and lead the Empire whoops I'm sorry Republic
Honestly. Sela is just not going to have in any way shape or form any truly useful information on the Iconians.. The Iconians have been keeping secrets for well over 100,000 years. And they are past experts at manipulation. Anything she learned from them, or of them is what THEY let her learn, because what she think she knows is utterly unimportant. Personally, the only reason I see for her to be in the hands of the alliance is because the Iconians WANTED her in the hands of the alliance. Primarily because she's a fantastic distraction.. and could do quite well at as cats paw.
Plot holes you can drive a Galaxy through.. and I'm not talk'n the starship class.
The Iconians have 100,000 plus years of technological advancement over the Delta Alliance. We can use their gateways... but can't build them ourselves. The Dyson spheres were built FOR them..
Now, Odds are good they're fairly static in their growth.. and might even be a dying race..
((and where or where does the T'kon empire figure into this.. were they an Iconian enemy? Enterprise-D made contact with the "Guardian" of outpost 63 ... a planet sized defense installation.. likely just the right size to tear up a dyson sphere.... Maybe we need to go have a little sit down with that fellow eh? -)) TNG-S1-E5 we meet the ferengi for the first time also.
Go back and read the damn thing again, Lt. Seken did a very bad job.
How to interrogate Empress Sela 101: Read: Mind and Physical Torture and R@pe 101 (Romulan Edition) and then post it on youtube, show it to her, and read her the comments
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
The Republic on the other hand need the fleets available to the Feds and Klinks to defend their space, they need their resources to build their cities and ships. The Republic took a gamble dictating the Iconian gateway was in Romulan space, if the Feds and Klinks decided they didn't like the arrangements they could easily take the gate, there would be two two way engagements Fed+KDF vs Rom because to not declare the enemy of my enemy my friend is just silly, and then there would be a Fed v KDF battle for the gate and lets face it, the Feds and the KDF could defend the spheres without the help of the small number of Romulan ships available.
So yeah, both factions have rather a lot of leverage, slightly underhanded admittedly but it's there.
And Romulans have an intense relationship with revenge. Mnheisahe is described as a code that governs their passion.
Revenge is a passionate thing. Sela is many things. A traitor, someone who condoned and participated in the torture of her people, a tyrant, and of course a first tier liar.
For the Romulans I'm sure it's a personal struggle. At the moment they seem to be erring on the side of, if we just give in and kill her then we'll be just like her, and something like that could be a stretch to far for Romulan honor.
Just rage killing her is NOT Romulan style. They aren't stupid culturally or otherwise.
I think they know she's trying to TRIBBLE them off on one level. If they just kill her then they lose. They get nothing from her, and whatever execution may be too swift in any event to be satisfying.
Torturing her may remove them from the moral high ground, which could also be described as a loss.
The Federation has no authority here, outside of whatever the Delta Expedition agreements were.
The Federation President proclaimed himself that treaties with the Romulans, such as the Treaty of Algeron, were declared null and void when Romulus fell and the old RSE 'ceased to exist.' So any of those treaties on... anything else? No dice, Feddies. Can't pick and choose what treaties still apply :cool:
Agreed - nice little points of differentiation. When I first ran that mission where we got Hakeev... yeah, I was really happy with that resolution. Very Romulan.
The Republic is not the RSE, but we're still Romulan. Just because the Federation doesn't feel Romulan sentiments are morally correct, doesn't mean that they aren't morally correct to Romulans. The Federation is the king of irony, where 'understanding other cultures' is more about absorbing and controlling them.
That said, I think any Romulan with green blood coursing through their veins feels intense desire to see Sela pay dearly for her crimes. So many lives lost by her order... it's sickening. But that's why I'm not one of the higher-ups controlling her more-or-less pleasant detention. And credit to the interviewer - by session 28, I'd have probably lost my cool with her. Was hard enough ordering Jarok to stand down after a few seconds with Sela.
Either way, time will tell what information she may be willing to give. And then she'll be dealt with accordingly. I'm very interested to see how Republic law will handle this.
The mind meld was clearly nonconsensual in nature and Valeris was definitely going through some discomfort trying to fight it. The fact that the movie never acknowledges the ethical problem of this scene or the consequences is probably the biggest failing in what is otherwise my favorite Trek Movie.
Enterprise gave the issue the attention it deserved by at least acknowledging that such an action was deeply reprehensible.
IMO Spock and Kirk should have faced sort of consequence for it. the fact that he was retiring already probably allowed Kirk avoid further punishment.
The problem is that Cryptic and many players want to have their cake and eat it too.
It wouldn't be as much of a problem if Cryptic Just made the Star Empire playable. But Cryptic has set the Republic up as a 'good guy' faction and takes every opportunity to remind players how different they are from the Empire by writing the Empire as brain-dead comically evil. Thus making any hostile action against them, no matter how severe 'justifiable'. thus facilitating players getting their 'righteous indignation' on without having to worry about moral implications of actions.
Pretty standard 'dark n' edgy' by the numbers tripe, IMO. As long as Cryptic continues to make moral issues like this un-point-outable either by NPCs or PCs.
It will end with me, a mind probe, a torture rack, a pistol, and many torture devices
THATS Romulan law right there
see you tommorow
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
An overblown interpretation.
Understanding other cultures doesn't mean agreeing with them. The Federation will happily unite with cultures that agree and coincide with their values, and are happy to live and let live with cultures that don't.
A few bad eggs doing otherwise, or Captains in time of war going against that grain doesn't turn the whole Federation into hypocrites, it just means there's enough leeway that not everyone adheres to the ideals perfectly every time. Not every Starfleet officer is Picard.
As for Romulan revenge, they may have to clone Sela a few times so she could be executed on multiple occasions to satisfy that. Nero wasn't an outlier, he was just the one who took it the hardest and had the biggest ship.
Pretty sure that's actual torture.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
That remains to be seen. The Federation gets rather preachy with their allies. If they leave Sela to the Republic - where she belongs - then I'll be impressed.
Yeah, this will get interesting. I'm a Republic player first and foremost, and... yeah, I'm going to have a hard time being agreeable if I'm forced to play alongside Sela. Mad props and respect to Denise Crosby for being the awesome, dedicated Trek actress she is, and I'm glad she keeps coming back to do VO. But dayum... if Sela's going to be involved in this mission, it better be me getting pre-launch information from her while she's behind bars, then I go off and do whatever needs to be done. Then a post-mission debrief with her, and back to trial she goes.
Under Federation law, yes. Under Republic law, probably not. Though we're definitely seeing that the Republic is (thankfully) a lot softer on their political prisoners than the old RSE ever was.
Many forget that this is the Federation of 2410.
They won't bat an eye if the RRF uses more....persuasive techniques to extract intelligence from Sela.
If Sela was given the hard treatment (not necessarily physical torture), and it became public? The only thing the Federation would do is:
1. Some politicians will give lofty public, feel-good statements to the media "condemning" such treatment. To score brownie points with the voters who still buy into the whole UFP blinding idealism schtick, of course. Not to mention, try to placate some of the more idealistic elements still in the Federation Council in the meantime, to avoid some diplomatic/political stink until something useful can come from Sela's questioning,
2. Starfleet will invoke General Order One, and not take any action. Starfleet Command will mostly refuse comment other than saying "Prime Directive. Internal Romulan Matter. Next Question..."
3. Behind the scenes, Starfleet Intelligence and Section 31 will get some juicy intel from our friends in the RRF, and it will hopefully help ensure the security and safety of the UFP, and the galaxy at large.
As far as D'Tan goes, there are hints that demonstrate that he does have a pragmatic streak, and his idealism isn't blinding. He maybe a politician, statesman, and diplomat, but I serious doubt (based on past hints) he's the kind that would allow another near-extinction level event to befall his people on the basis of philosophical posturing, and feel-good bull****.
Sela isn't just some common street crook or POW. She had a major part to play in the betrayal and near-destruction of the Romulan people. A scheme for power that cost the lives of billions of Romulans and Remans. She's as much to blame for the Big Sell Out as Hakeev and Taris. She is a special case who holds information that could mean the survival, or destruction, of the civilizations of the galaxy at the hands of the Iconians. As a matter of practicality and urgency, she should be handled differently.
If the RRF can't get it done, then bring in Commander Mena. Or, barring that, bring in our favorite Imperial spymaster K'men and his crew. I betcha a hundred credits they could get the information easily and efficiently.
Of course, this is from my in-universe perspective (i.e. how I would roll with it). Ultimately, it's up to Cryptic's writing staff on how this will play out.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
I wouldn't have passed up on the chance to throw Sela in a cage myself.
All possible.
But the Republic and the alliance can't deal with her until they ascertain what she knows. It's bad, but for now keeping her alive is the better move. Even if in the end all she does is eat up replicator rations.
And? The Voth have 65 million years on us. That said of course Static growth is the answer. Though considering they have instantaneous long distance teleportation technology, the resources to get their underlings to build Dyson's shells, can construct bases wholly in other spatial domains, can genetically mutate and engineer other species, AND according to Taris have time travel abilities that would allow them to undo the Hobus Supernova; they may not have had the necessity to advance any further.
I find it interesting that Iconia was devastated by simple orbital bombardment. If the Iconians were that far ahead, then how did their former servants manage to get the one up on them? They're extremely powerful, but I don't think there's evidence that they're so far ahead of us that we can't catch up or fight back.
The TKon were 600 thousand years ago while the Iconians ended 200 thousand years ago, so it's entirely possible that the Iconians rose from the power vacuum that accompanied the TKon's extinction. Considering the technological abilities of the TKon (The Tkon had the ability to move entire star systems, using planets as outposts for defense.) All Iconian technology could be tech they inherited/found/reverse engineered from the TKon.
The only issue is that no one can fight amongst themselves at the moment. The Federation and the Empire need all hands on deck right now. Any disunity is an opening the Iconians can use.
OF COURSE it was non-consensual, I'm talking about the fact that at around the halfway point she cooperated. (the part where they were speaking in unison).
I disagree that the movie didn't acknowledge it. They weren't going to stick a scene at the end of the film with an Admiral bringing Kirk and Spock up on charges. But the Enterprise crew did not look ok with it. Not everything has to be spelled out. I felt that the scene itself a decade before Enterprise showed in the emotion of the scene that it was reprehensible. Spock was on the verge of tears when he broke the meld.
You have still failed to say what punishment you think would be appropriate.
These crimes were all when she wasn't empress, her superiors should be held accountable, but they're probably long dead now.
And we turned her over as soon as the mission was done.
I'm curious about Denise's ideas for a Sela redemption.
That said, I would find it interesting to have to go on a mission with her.
Think about the affably evil banter, the disguised insults and death threats!
It would be so...quintessentially Romulan to have to fight alongside her restraining yourself from shooting her in the back and always forcing her to go first so she won't do the same to you.
Honestly there isn't much they could do in any event. Any human could understand why they're want to torture her to within an inch of her life.
That doesn't mean they condone it. Hell the Federation stuck Taris in a cell and left her there. 2410 UFP isn't some dystopian monstrosity, we're just at war.
I doubt it.
Bingo.
More than likely though their work would be cut out for them trying to verify what she said, since torture can be infamously unreliable. Do you really think she would give them good information under torture? They don't even have a baseline to corroborate her with. She's literally their only witness.
All true. I think he's shown a few signs that he's a little cocky with the high level of success he's had thus far. But overall he's taking many of the best parts of what Spock taught him.
All true, but I wouldn't place her in the same space as Taris and Hakeev though. For all the TRIBBLE she's done, she wasn't responsible for the Hobus Supernova.
As a Starfleet officer I say, let's not get carried away. As a Soldier of the Republic I say, Mena! Mena! Mena! or Even Rai. As a warrior I say, to hell with K'Men let me "talk" to her.
Man that's a great point. The environmental team is certainly busy. New sector space and we don't even know if they're adding anything to Risa yet, nor any of the new things they haven't mentioned yet/
But I'd love to go to the Reman section. And where is Obisek?
Didn't they say she would be put up for a joint tribunal or that she would be extradited after her trial.
It's an interesting note that as a Romulan she'll be looking at 150 more years of life easy. 50 years in a Romulan prison, 50 years on a Federation Asteroid, and round it out with 50 years in "The Gulag Rura Penthe".
Agreed, The needs of the many. If her keeping her trap shuts means the Iconians win the war, then killing, I mean punishing her loses priority
She's more Stalin to me.
Or he had dominated her mind with the mind meld by that point. There's nothing at all in the scene that indicates that she was 'cooperating' with it. Look at all the pain she is exhibiting when Spock tries to extract the knowledge of the peace conference location from her.
Yes, Spock, Valeris, and the entire bridge crew looked uncomfortable (at least). Which immediately made it very, very creepy. And distressing considering Spock and Kirk (apparently) never faced any sort of consequences for their actions. They acknowledge that it's wrong, they don't acknowledge any sort of consequences for it.
Demotion or being forcibly retired would seem appropriate at least. But considering Kirk was retiring anyways, not much of an option.
You know what....you're right about that, probably a bit more apropriate.
But my point stands, someone at Cryptic seems to have a fetish for Sela.
On the one hand we have the 1/2 breed "empress" that needs to go and really her execution cant come soon enough.
On the other hand, our sovereign is being held by seditious traitors lead by a well known terrorist that's a puppet federation regime.
So though it pains me,
FREE SELA
I didn't find it creepy, just...sad. Very very sad.
It was an emotionally draining part of the movie in any case.
Considering the end of The Voyage Home, we know that the Federation Council considers circumstances when handing out punishments.
Kirk stole and destroyed the Enterprise and almost incited a war with the Klingons, but he did happen to save her from annihilation....again. So he gets demoted to Captain.
In the Undiscovered Country case, the argument would be, this officer who had murdered two other officers was assaulted in order to recover information that was then critical to dismantle a conspiracy that would have directly led to the assassination of both the President and the Chancellor and led to a war with the Klingon Empire.
I don't see how that flies.
"Will you consent to a mind meld?"
"No."
Ordering her to submit to the mind meld?
Unlawful order. If it was that simple, then she would have just told them.
She was a willing participant in the conspiracy and had killed two other Starfleet officers to keep it secret.
There was literally no other way as written.
The needs of the many.
It should be noted that after 9/11 and the Patriot Act Nicholas Meyer is troubled by the scene now.
hopefuly they do it in full cinematic with full voiceovers so i can have a laugh.
RR little better than the SE but then again, nowhere is it stated that any of those rights exist in the RR laws.
Prediction: sela escapes or is acquitted since Crosby still alive and they want to have more voice jobs for her
Indeed.
It was emotionally draining for me as well. It was sad to see things come to that. But I also think it was Kirk and Spock's single greatest moral failure. I think Spock at least recognized that. I don't mind the scene (great acting) so much as the aftermath.
leagues better handling then Spock's rampant mind-melding in Nu Trek though, IMO.
Yes. Hence why I don't think Kirk or Spock would have gotten prison, which would be appropriate under other circumstances, I think. I would hope that they at least got a reprimand over it. And I'd like to think that Kirks retirement became less of choice and more as a necessity after that.
For good reason IMO. If memory serves, similar reasons were behind the rewrite of the scene when it came around to the novel. The scene comes across as very rapey in the movie.
Thank you, I just edited it to correct it. I always like to have misspelling pointed out so that I know what to look out for next time.
I also returned the favor. Between the two of us, we may be able to type a post without mistakes. lol.
Part of my point in bringing up the Spock/Valeris incident in the first place was that while (as you correctly point out) the entire bridge crew of the Enterprise - the finest group of officers in Starfleet, and our heroes for decades by that point - did look uncomfortable with it, none of them so much as lodged a protest.
While the circumstances were of critical importance to the Federation and Klingon Empire, they PALE in comparison to the far-reaching threat of the Iconians, not only to those two powers but to everyone else: the RR, the RSE, the Undine, the Borg (liberated and un-), etc., etc., etc.
And most importantly, it's not the Federation even handling Sela, it's the RR. While the KDF would stop at nothing, and even the best of the Federation (as shown above) are at least willing to stand by and let forcible mind-probing go on if circumstances call for it, the RR should certainly be in the middle ground with a more sliding scale of justice and situational morality. They probably wouldn't go for using the Mind Sifter on jaywalkers and litterbugs (where the KDF might), but with a need to get information QUICKLY from an uber-villainess like Sela, I don't think they would even given it a second thought. In her case, and in their hands, she should have been wheeled straight into mind probe/truth serum/telepathic interrogation as soon as she arrived on New Romulus, even supposing it hadn't already been a fait accompli the second she was beamed aboard the Lleiset.
To pass off that lame conversation as Debriefing Session #28 is a joke. Heck, we have Telepathic Interrogation Technique DOFF missions for crying out loud!
[EDIT: Typo. This is not my day for typing.
If Kirk could get a lawyer in a Klingon court after supposedly taking part of the assassination of Gorkon, Sela should at least be able to get a Klingon, Romulan or Federation individual to defend her. Would be neat if the Player character had the option of stepping in for that.
The problem I see is that there isn't an immediate need to get that information right now, like there was with Valeris. plenty of time to get it done the normal way. Particularly with the Federation looking over the Republic's shoulder.