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Debriefing Session 28

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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,008 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Jack Bauer? No. There's likely time travel involved so more likely Captain Jack Harkness. ;)

    That encounter would seriously ramp up the ESRB rating, though. Better we leave that to erotic fan fiction :P

    Honestly, reading many comments in this thread I understand now that STO and it's writing is exactly what most of the vocal playerbase in the forums "deserve". Seldomly I have seen so many people openly propagading warmongering, cruelty and ravenge fantasies across the board :D
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  • edited March 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • mmps1mmps1 Member Posts: 381 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Poor Angela Merkel, she can't even get a good book :(
    "Mr talks down to the peasants."
  • hfmuddhfmudd Member Posts: 881 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Friend of mine (playing a Fed Intel-O) wanted to simply and calmly shoot her in the face, dispose of the body, and report another unknown prisoner ("unidentified female, Vulcanoid, probably Romulan") found dead in the Elachi facility.
    There is no possible universe where anything she could have to say about the Iconians would possibly be worth the amount of damage she'll do to absolutely everything she touches in an attempt to save her own hide and skate out from under her consequences.

    And it looks like the writers are going to let her.

    Also according to them, the right question is not "what do you know?" but "why should we let you live?" Get the discussion off on the right foot, as it were.
    "Who do you think would protest on your behalf if you were declared 'killed while attempting to escape' ? The Federation? Yes, I'm sure they'll send us a highly disapproving memo about sloppy security standards around the woman who personally ordered and led a genocidal assault on Vulcan. The Klingons? They'd be more likely to compliment us for understanding that the proper way to dispose of a venomous snake is to cut off its head and incinerate the corpse.

    Your own Tal Shiar? Ever since you disappeared they've been trying to balance between trying to join us via the back door and buying mercenaries to harass us. They'll understand all too well about knives in the dark."


    EDIT: oh hey, someone else agrees (with my friend, who found that after I pointed them at this thread).
    Join Date: January 2011
  • astro2244astro2244 Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The RSE no longer exists, have you played this game at all recently?



    With all due respect I must ask the same question of you lol. CBS let Cryptic Make the republic faction, but they didn't give them permission to eliminate the Romulan star empire remnants. Remnants which I might add control quite a good chunk of space still. CBS isn't going to fuly destroy one of the three most well known governmental organizations in the trek universe, even if they let it get beat up a bit in JJ trek.

    (Galaxy map is ye friend)



    To get back on topic though I must agree with some past posts, hypocrisy is hypocrisy.
    If the roles were reversed and it was D'tan or Obisek in a RSE prison, and these same tactics were used the republic would cry bloody murder. It's not a matter of being different then the federation in regard to treatment of prisoners. It's a matter of being able to face ones accusers in a court of law and have legal representation. These tactics in the blog were used in the RSE and the Cardassian union of old.


    If you want to set out to be better prove it. Don't just say 'we're just better the the RSE because reasons', then go using some of the same tactics, it doesn't wash.
    [SIGPIC]583px-Romulan_Star_Empire_logo%2C_2379.svg.png
    [/SIGPIC]
  • daviesdaviesdaviesdavies Member Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    very boring dialogue like from some cheap cheesy B movie
    iIt doesnt cost much to be a bit more creative in a short dialogue
    Mzd8i1c.gif
  • twofast4twofast4 Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    without picards direct violation of the temporal prime directive she wouldent exsist so hhhmmm picard is a war criminal
  • twofast4twofast4 Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    if one takes the logic of the startrek universe picards decission to save the coloney by sending what amounts to a temporal agent responsiable for rewriting the past even tho it was an attempt to preserve the time line of the original means he is directly responsible the hobus incident the killen of entire worlds includeing romulious and remus he is also responsible for the TRIBBLE TRIBBLE reboot that jj abrahams did how does he sleep at night with the wolf incident the hobus incident the planets he wiped out the destruction of vulcan man every thing he touched turned to **** lol
  • twofast4twofast4 Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    side note the borg and all the badies in the entire series you pick 1 or all of them has done prolly ony 1 % of the deeath and destruction of picards choices as a captin of the ncc 1701 d
  • ceekayzeroceekayzero Member Posts: 411 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Yeah. I think that Sela will get a trial, IF she isn't killed in action in the "Uneasy Allies" mission or a sequel thereof. Hakeev was a special case. Obisek (or the Romulan PC) had a personal score with him, and that wasn't a representation of how the fledgling Republic's justice system works. In the case of Sela, it would only give credence to her accusations of injustice if she was summarily executed or tried Cardassian/Obsidian Order style. The Republic needs to prove that it has risen above the practices of the Empire/Tal Shiar.

    Exactly.
    patrickngo wrote: »
    first thought I had was "Better Call Saul."

    You don't want a criminal lawyer. You want a criminal lawyer. The Romulan Republic woudl be better served with the former, though. Even if the latter is a more interesting character.

    Can we get a Lawyer spec?
  • yudhistiroyudhistiro Member Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Well, let me know if real power wants a magazine or something
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,404 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I just hope the episode won't be her getting into a one-sided argument and everyone reluctantly agreeing with her because the devs didn't want you to have good replies to her BS.

    I want to shoot her arguments down as hard as possible, bonus points if I can make her suffer a villainous breakdown and double bonus points if my Klingon and Romulan characters can start the interrogation by slamming her head on the desk.

    Also:
    Lieutenant Seken was observed speaking to subject when they entered the interrogation room. Recommend he be reassigned and have no further contact with subject.
    *facepalm*
    Are you guys asking for troubles? Why don't you start interrogating him or keeping a closer eye on him!
    #TASforSTO
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  • zipagatzipagat Member Posts: 1,204 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Just let Garak have half an hour with her, then we will see what secrets she knows if any. Either that or borrow a couple of Letheans from the KDF, they would make good interrogators since they are telepathic enough to be able to read even the mind of an Undine.
  • chipg7chipg7 Member Posts: 1,577 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    astro2244 wrote: »
    If the roles were reversed and it was D'tan or Obisek in a RSE prison, and these same tactics were used the republic would cry bloody murder. It's not a matter of being different then the federation in regard to treatment of prisoners. It's a matter of being able to face ones accusers in a court of law and have legal representation. These tactics in the blog were used in the RSE and the Cardassian union of old.

    If D'Tan or Obisek were being held by the RSE, then... there wouldn't be anything left to 'hold' after a very short time.

    Considering that we're seeing the report of interrogation session #28, I think the Republic is taking a much softer approach than the RSE ever would've. No signs of forced extraction of information as of yet, and even though she's in solitary confinement she is being brought out of it fairly regularly. And in the picture, she doesn't look at all worse for wear - looks like they cleaned her up and even repaired her uniform.

    This is a much more fair style of treatment than would've been offered by the RSE, even if the Republic's approach doesn't quite measure as equal to the Federation's. Then again, I'm sure the average Romulan would laugh off the Feds' legal system as pitifully inadequate. It's all a matter of perspective.
    Lieutenant Seken was observed speaking to subject when they entered the interrogation room. Recommend he be reassigned and have no further contact with subject.
    Are you guys asking for troubles? Why don't you start interrogating him or keeping a closer eye on him!

    I'm sure he'll be questioned when he's reassigned. That'd only make sense.
  • hfmuddhfmudd Member Posts: 881 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Sad to say, we all know she's gonna walk.
    Somehow.
    Because they spent good money on Crosby's VO, a custom face model, etc.
    And for the same reason that no one's ever able to kill or hold the Joker - because then the writers couldn't use one of their favorite villains anymore.

    In the immortal word(s) of Beowulf Shaeffer, "Tanj" - There Ain't No Justice.
    Join Date: January 2011
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,449 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    vorwoda wrote: »
    Excellent points, of course, but still highlighting my contention that in circumstances like those, even the most noble people accept that the ends justify the means.

    Your point about the likelihood of an off-camera staff meeting is very well-taken.

    If we had seen them discussing it beforehand it would've highlighted how severe the circumstances were and how hard the call was.

    It should be noted that considering all the variables in life the ends justify the means isn't always the wrong call. As Niccolo actually said, "One must consider the ends."

    Also true.



    That's very interesting! Not having a telepathic character, I hadn't seen that dialogue.
    I do love it when Cryptic creates specialized dialogue for different characteristics.
    Since mind melds are touch telepathy, the best defense is simply to kill the Vulcan before he can touch you. :D However, since MENTAL defense against telepathy didn't seem to work for Valeris, even against someone who was only half-Vulcan, I wouldn't put too much faith in that.
    Keep in mind that Valeris was a rookie going against a master. I doubt the same thing would've worked on Sarek for instance.
    I like DS9 and watched the whole series, but I don't recall the Dukat mind meld scene. I'll have to look it up before I can discuss it.
    Maquis Arc, it was that gorgeous Vulcan Sakonna in "The Maquis pt II".

    I'm with you. In "Errand of Mercy", Kor's Klingon Mind Sifter failed to penetrate Spock's defenses, although Kor said at the highest setting it would reduce Kirk to a vegetable. The Romulan Commander in "The Enterprise Incident" made similar remarks about Romulan interrogation techniques. Of course, they've both had more than a century since to improve them. It's entirely possible that such resistance is now futile, (to assimilate a phrase).
    Possible, however it's equally possible that any increase in the efficacy of the technology would be correspondingly more damaging. There are barriers that can't be overcome. I find it interesting that Soran on board a Duras vessel used a Borg probe instead of a Klingon one.
    I know how the electric chair works, but if I was strapped into one and the switch was thrown, I doubt if I could defeat it. :eek:
    The electric chair isn't the proper analogy. We're talking about a lie detector test. Something that needs to go into your mind. A place where you always have some control. Look at Sloan who even while dying was able to throw obstacles at Bashir and O'Brien.
    Yeah. I think that Sela will get a trial, IF she isn't killed in action in the "Uneasy Allies" mission or a sequel thereof. Hakeev was a special case. Obisek (or the Romulan PC) had a personal score with him, and that wasn't a representation of how the fledgling Republic's justice system works. In the case of Sela, it would only give credence to her accusations of injustice if she was summarily executed or tried Cardassian/Obsidian Order style. The Republic needs to prove that it has risen above the practices of the Empire/Tal Shiar.
    Hakeev was a raving lunatic who was still trying to throw military materiel at us and was stalling for Iconian intervention.

    Obisek didn't need a trial, considering all the damage Hakeev did to his people.

    The Romulan player though. That line is excellent, "This is LESS than you deserve". We knew that he deserved a far worse death and punishment...but the SOB was just to dangerous to let draw breath any further.
    Where exactly did we go?

    When Sela became Empress she marginalized the senate reducing them to puppets. With the Empress gone the actual governmental authority is in question.

    It's difficult to say now that Preemptive Strike is removed as in that one the flagship IRW Decius was destroyed along with the present fleet a massive blow to imperial power. On the other hand there were still warbirds flying the Imperial banner as late as the Borg missions.

    In any event the political and military power of the Star Empire is effectively nil. This is actually backed up by the fact that they haven't made any moves since The Battle of Brea. They haven't intervened in the Dyson's Spheres, they haven't attacked the Federation or the Empire, nor have they made any political or diplomatic moves. Considering the forces the Republic is fielding I think it's safe to say the Romulan Star Empire is effectively defunct as a major power.
    jexsamx wrote: »
    I'm incredibly surprised the RR is treating her so well. 28 interrogations in and still no mind probe? Surely there must be some sort of telepathic means of interrogating her that won't entail long-term damage or pain (these are the kinder, gentler Romulans, after all)? Hell, we saw Spock do it himself once in a damn movie - don't tell me a Reman couldn't do something similar, or at least a Vulcan be brought in for it.
    Well we know they have to hold Tiaru back.

    As I said, telepathy is sketchy with her.

    They could be trying a more long term breaking strategy. They've already got her complaining about being bored...so they give her a little reading material. But she will run out.

    It's interesting her complaining about not being able to write anything. In Unification II, Sela said she enjoyed writing, but never had much time to do it. Now she has all the time in the world...and can't write anything.
    I tend to agree Sela should get a fair trial with representation, but we all know it'll have the same end result as just executing her now. She doesn't have a leg to stand on. Her list of crimes would stretch at least an AU, maybe one and a half AU's. Any trial, no matter how earnest, would be little more than a circus meant to placate the impractically just who might look down on them for anything less.

    They really need to get D'tan himself in there to interrogate her. I mean, he's the man who played the KDF and Federation like fiddles - to their faces, with no trickery or lies - and wound up securing a position as the dominant emergent Romulan government. Sela's too good to be broken by regular interrogation. She needs to be challenged on her home field - politics.
    That's a great point, if D'Tan has learned his Spock lessons well, then going head to head with her would be a great showcase.

    Though perhaps the only real candidate would be the ultimate diplomat. Send in Picard.

    A man can dream...
    twofast4 wrote: »
    without picards direct violation of the temporal prime directive she wouldent exsist so hhhmmm picard is a war criminal
    That was the Picard of a different timeline and he died protecting the Enterprise-C.
    twofast4 wrote: »
    if one takes the logic of the startrek universe picards decission to save the coloney by sending what amounts to a temporal agent responsiable for rewriting the past even tho it was an attempt to preserve the time line of the original means he is directly responsible the hobus incident the killen of entire worlds includeing romulious and remus he is also responsible for the TRIBBLE TRIBBLE reboot that jj abrahams did how does he sleep at night with the wolf incident the hobus incident the planets he wiped out the destruction of vulcan man every thing he touched turned to **** lol
    Your argument falls apart completely on one fact. You don't know your history.

    For all her crimes, the Hobus Supernova is one thing that Sela is completely clean on. She was in exile at the time of the Supernova. That one is all Taris and Hakeev. Sela didn't find out that the Supernova was an inside job until we did.
    ceekayzero wrote: »
    You don't want a criminal lawyer. You want a criminal lawyer. The Romulan Republic woudl be better served with the former, though. Even if the latter is a more interesting character.

    Can we get a Lawyer spec?

    That would be a JAG tree. Make it a secondary under Diplomacy.
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  • mackbolan01mackbolan01 Member Posts: 580 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    this looks like a job for: samual t. cogley federation lawyer
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited March 2015
    The Federation nor the Empire no nothing of the interview

    So what is there to dicuss ?
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
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  • lilchibiclarililchibiclari Member Posts: 1,193 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Reminds me of they hypocritical nature of these stories. Being sela of all people can't bypass a lockout on a padd lol. I mean she is more advanced than a pre-K child but even they can bypass a parental lockout on a dvr. They do not do much thinking or planning when it comes to these blogs its more so all about pointless one liner stories that just lead to a boring grind.

    Meh, a PADD that has its "wi-fi" transmitter and cable jacks physically removed would thus have no output methods other than its screen, and thus could not be used to send signals to control external equipment short of dismantling it and rebuilding it with tools and parts that she doesn't possess.
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ceekayzero wrote: »
    It is fundamentally unjust that Sela is prohibited from obtaining legal counsel.

    Is there no one on Mol'Rihan, Qo'nos, or the various worlds of the Federation (even Holy Terra) who will move to serve as her legal representative?

    Can my Captain demand Sela get counsel?
    We should consider her other requests, as well as the inquiry from the Federation ambassador about her treatment,

    It looks as if the federation smells an unjust imprisonment and possible foul treatment of sela and seeks to find if it is in fact true....and apperantly it is

    Romulans being Romulans nothing new here lol :D
  • colonelchenchuancolonelchenchuan Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Why isn't D'Tan on trial??????

    He is a known terrorist and murderer. We can also tack on treason and espionage.

    We should demand his immediate extradiction to Rator to stand trial, First Witness would be Major Rakel. Oh wait... she's dead. D'Tan had her killed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Why isn't D'Tan on trial??????

    He is a known terrorist and murderer. We can also tack on treason and espionage.

    We should demand his immediate extradiction to Rator to stand trial, First Witness would be Major Rakel. Oh wait... she's dead. D'Tan had him killed.

    lol love the sig man excellent work :)

    personally i cant stand d'tan idk but he seems to....vulcan? (im rom ingame )

    I say in light of these events that D'Tan be forced to step down as head of the romulan republic and allow sela the true ruler of all romulans to succeed the reigns of power.
    and then perhaps she may forgive d'tan his many crimes and allow him to die as a true romulan.
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    lol love the sig man excellent work :)

    personally i cant stand d'tan idk but he seems to....vulcan? (im rom ingame )

    I say in light of these events that D'Tan be forced to step down as head of the romulan republic and allow sela the true ruler of all romulans to succeed the reigns of power.
    and then perhaps she may forgive d'tan his many crimes and allow him to die as a true romulan.

    It would make sense that D'Tan seems too Vulcan as he was the little Roman boy hanging with Ambassador Spock in the Unification episodes on TNG. I imagine that if he was really into the Vulcan way of life that he'd emulate some of the ways they act.
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    khan5000 wrote: »
    It would make sense that D'Tan seems too Vulcan as he was the little Roman boy hanging with Ambassador Spock in the Unification episodes on TNG. I imagine that if he was really into the Vulcan way of life that he'd emulate some of the ways they act.

    you do relise i was just goofing off right? :D

    I already ascertained as much and the fact of who he is on TNG and that as a student of spock he would emulate much of the vulcan ways and teachings. :)
  • ceekayzeroceekayzero Member Posts: 411 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Why isn't D'Tan on trial??????

    He is a known terrorist and murderer. We can also tack on treason and espionage.

    We should demand his immediate extradiction to Rator to stand trial, First Witness would be Major Rakel. Oh wait... she's dead. D'Tan had her killed.

    What acts of terror and murder did D'Tan orchestrate?

    Now, as to why he is not on trial: because as others have said, the entity called the Romulan Star Empire, at this point in the game, is defunct. Their fleets are scattered, their technological progress stalled (they don't have Arkifs or CBCs), and their leadership in custody, missing, or dead. The Romulan Republic, on the other hand, has a homeworld, fleets, and strong alliances. The Romulan Star Empire can whine all it wants about putting D'Tan on trial, but victor's justice is still victor's justice.

    Make no mistake, the Romulan Republic has won. And now it has to face up to its past and decide what to do about it.

    I want the Romulan Republic to take the side of the rule of law. Hence my calls for Sela to have an attorney and a speedy trial. Or a plea bargain.
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ceekayzero wrote: »
    What acts of terror and murder did D'Tan orchestrate?

    Uhm give us a few minutes and im sure we can create ...i mean find some evidence of his many crimes :D
  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,163 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ceekayzero wrote: »
    What acts of terror and murder did D'Tan orchestrate?

    Now, as to why he is not on trial: because as others have said, the entity called the Romulan Star Empire, at this point in the game, is defunct. Their fleets are scattered, their technological progress stalled (they don't have Arkifs or CBCs), and their leadership in custody, missing, or dead. The Romulan Republic, on the other hand, has a homeworld, fleets, and strong alliances. The Romulan Star Empire can whine all it wants about putting D'Tan on trial, but victor's justice is still victor's justice.

    Make no mistake, the Romulan Republic has won. And now it has to face up to its past and decide what to do about it.

    I want the Romulan Republic to take the side of the rule of law. Hence my calls for Sela to have an attorney and a speedy trial. Or a plea bargain.

    He supports the extremest Tovan Khev.
    zx2t8tuj4i10.png
    Thank you for the Typhoon!
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    thay8472 wrote: »
    He supports the extremest Tovan Khev.

    THIS RIGHT HERE!!!!! ^^^^^

    heres d'tans most heinous crime :D
  • colonelchenchuancolonelchenchuan Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ceekayzero wrote: »
    What acts of terror and murder did D'Tan orchestrate?

    Now, as to why he is not on trial: because as others have said, the entity called the Romulan Star Empire, at this point in the game, is defunct. Their fleets are scattered, their technological progress stalled (they don't have Arkifs or CBCs), and their leadership in custody, missing, or dead. The Romulan Republic, on the other hand, has a homeworld, fleets, and strong alliances. The Romulan Star Empire can whine all it wants about putting D'Tan on trial, but victor's justice is still victor's justice.

    Make no mistake, the Romulan Republic has won. And now it has to face up to its past and decide what to do about it.

    I want the Romulan Republic to take the side of the rule of law. Hence my calls for Sela to have an attorney and a speedy trial. Or a plea bargain.

    He was a Terrorist, leading a terrorist group. It was also stated in DS9 that his liitle band of terrorists where more or less no longer an issue. Further films make no mention of his so called movement.

    And http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Rakal_(Major)

    Do you really think the US would let Bill Ayers be prez.

    As far as it being "defunct"... Not hardly. The RSE is was great power with many many advanced planets and colonies spread over much of the Beta Q.

    The Fauxpublic is one pissant planet with few if any resources. It only exists due to being propped up by the Federation. They can barely feed anyone let alone build fleets of Star Ships.

    The Leadership of the Empire has been in flux since Shinzon but we are more than capable of weathering the loss of Hakeev and the 1/2 breed.

    Now that Sela is being held by the Federation - because the Fauxpublic IS the federation - its time for the Senate to elect a new Praetor.

    Few Romulans are going to give up 2000 years of culture to join a aging terrorist Vulcan lover on a backward, undeveloped planet in Klingon space when there are major Romulan planets thru out the Beta Q.

    Really if people are running around wearing torn up rags because they are too dumb to use a replicator, then the Fauxpublic deserves them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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