Shields have an innate 75% resist to kinetic damage, such as from torpedoes. If the damage type is antiproton, it will bypass that innate resist and deal full damage to shields, making massively more powerful than any other torpedo in the game. I assume this is what he's thinking about.
Also, Phaser Lance doesn't benefit from Photon consoles. Plasma Torpedoes don't benefit from Plasma Energy consoles.
If you wanted full power torpedoes you ran a torpedo boat with all their shield slamming goodness.
Now you just run AP like everyone else has been doing since their introduction.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
The iconic Star Trek beam weapon is left in the dust in favor of this OP antiproton TRIBBLE.
Cryptic get your friggin donkeytrain in order!
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Nice 90% of the server played already with AP, now it will be 99%. Why be different when we can all be the same?
Was it just too hard to give the player the opporunity to choose the dmg of the torpedo?
I am from Belgium and english isn't my main language, sorry if I make mistakes.
One thing that worries me about this torpedo. I don't know if this is addressed earlier in the thread but I didn't see it in the first 5 pages.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't shield's high resilience to torpedos based largely on the assumption that torpedos universally deal kinetic damage? Knowing that does this mean that because this torpedo deals antiproton damage that a shield will eat pretty much the full force of the torpedo (and consequently allowing a proportionately higher amount of bleedthrough damage)?
Example, say we have a kinetic torp deals 5000 damage to a shielded target. As I understand it 75% of that damage will be reduced with 90% of the remaining 1250 damage being dealt to shields and 10% bleeding through to the hull (with that 10% being subject to kinetic resist). Now say we have 5000 antiproton damage from this torp. Does the torp still incur a similar amount of reduced damage against a shielded target or is it going to find itself eating 4500 shield damage and 500 to the hull?
Please explain your thoughts on how this is so different from a Beam Overload, or a cycle of Canon Rapid Fire, or a Phaser Lance, so as to render it game-breakingly unbalanced.
Edit: Beam Overload, CRF and Phaser Lance don't have a 1 second global cooldown that can be reached with 1 proc of a projectile weapons officer doff.
basically the whole energy dmg type thing is wrong.
basically all energy-weapons are all same "build"mechanic ... phasers dont drastically operate different than disruptors do ...
so basically there should only be ONE energyweapon damage console, while the differen "types" should actually buff less dmg, but improve the PROC of that weapon.
so youd have:
30% dmg energy for all energy weapon types (at mk xii veryrare)
while phaser,antiprot,dis,polaron whatever should give: 20% dmg increase+20% proc-chance-increase for a mk xii veryrare console
(the numbers arent mathematical, they are made up)
so you can either enhance weapon dmg, or weapontype procc
this would then correctly reflect energyweapontypes.
same goes for torpedos: basically they are all kinetics ...
so there shoudl be one kinetic dmg raising console
and different multiple ones to buff the "specific" addition the torpedo comes with.
(since photon and quantum dont have anything like this, there cd could be reduced by specific photon/quantum consoles or they just get a specialty maybe)
basically linking proc and energyweapon"type" is basically wrong in the core. cause the type doesnt do anything.
just to make it clear: plasmabeams arent different than a phaser array. both use energy to get focussed through a lens that bundles the stream of energy into draining specifically force fields (just a sidenote: energyweapons are rather weak on hulls, unless its a kinetic cutting beam like the borg use ...)
its just the way their energy is produced and redirected and then emitted. basically its all the same. so raising their dmg potential more or less is dependand from a) emitters and b) the power core its connected to (wich is weapon energy level in this game) - the lens on the other hand is kind of the specific for a type of beam and determines how well something can be at its specifics
lets now take these two words:
one console would be an emitter array booster:
its there for DAMAGE (cause the emitter array is basically the thing then converts energy income into a stream of energy, before burning apart, better emittters. more dmg can be directed through them)
while the focussing lens:
would deliver better proccs (eg a better focussed phaser willl hit subsystem points better, a more focussed disruptor will hit harder before its energy dissipates)
so basically the whole approach to energy and kinetic base DAMAGE is wrong in this game.
One thing that worries me about this torpedo. I don't know if this is addressed earlier in the thread but I didn't see it in the first 5 pages.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't shield's high resilience to torpedos based largely on the assumption that torpedos universally deal kinetic damage? Knowing that does this mean that because this torpedo deals antiproton damage that a shield will eat pretty much the full force of the torpedo (and consequently allowing a proportionately higher amount of bleedthrough damage)?
Example, say we have a kinetic torp deals 5000 damage to a shielded target. As I understand it 75% of that damage will be reduced with 90% of the remaining 1250 damage being dealt to shields and 10% bleeding through to the hull (with that 10% being subject to kinetic resist). Now say we have 5000 antiproton damage from this torp. Does the torp still incur a similar amount of reduced damage against a shielded target or is it going to find itself eating 4500 shield damage and 500 to the hull?
One thing that worries me about this torpedo. I don't know if this is addressed earlier in the thread but I didn't see it in the first 5 pages.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't shield's high resilience to torpedos based largely on the assumption that torpedos universally deal kinetic damage? Knowing that does this mean that because this torpedo deals antiproton damage that a shield will eat pretty much the full force of the torpedo (and consequently allowing a proportionately higher amount of bleedthrough damage)?
Example, say we have a kinetic torp deals 5000 damage to a shielded target. As I understand it 75% of that damage will be reduced with 90% of the remaining 1250 damage being dealt to shields and 10% bleeding through to the hull (with that 10% being subject to kinetic resist). Now say we have 5000 antiproton damage from this torp. Does the torp still incur a similar amount of reduced damage against a shielded target or is it going to find itself eating 4500 shield damage and 500 to the hull?
Edit: Beam Overload, CRF and Phaser Lance don't have a 1 second global cooldown that can be reached with 1 proc of a projectile weapons officer doff.
yes: and this would also mean, that its bull**** against hulls, like energyweapons SHOULD be.
like i said in my prior post: the whole damagetype weapontype approach is wrong and NON startrek in this game.
torpedos ALL do kinetic. thats WHY forcefields CAN suck them up, but hulls cant (unless they are armoured)
energyweapons are all "energy" therefore they KILL SHILEDS but dont kill HULLS (not same ratio as kin vs shields)
also there are basically no different types rather than kin or energy in the first instance.
so:
kin vs hull 100%(minus armor) and 1/10 ratio against shields, PLUS lower shield cap should result in more bleedthrough, while full cap should NEVER bleedthrough (besides transphasics and beamthrough of course)
energy vs shields 100%, vs hull 1/2 ratio (while cannons should have that amount raised by less distance, and lowered by long distance, ther hull dmg potential can rise, not their shield one! because the volley part is again kinetic speed, thats sucked up by shields easily ...), also DEM: bypassing shields should LOWER the damage on the shields, NOT ADD UP. energy that bypasses shield cannot reduce its capacity same time ... its either BYPASSING or HITTING it ...
if i throw one stone through a window, it breaks the window, if i throw that stone "around" the window, it cannot damage the window AND bypass it. thats basically magic wonderland kind of wrong ...
the whole idea of weapontypes needs a redo in concernes of : structure and diversity. (currently theres everything mixed up, its structural logic approach is puzzled for the sake of diversity)
thats where nearly all imbalance between arrays, torps, cannons whatever derives from.
corrected after the assumption that the forcefield never compeltely stops a projectile before the hull. just reducing its kinetic vector amount to 10% or 5% for resilient.
Please explain your thoughts on how this is so different from a Beam Overload, or a cycle of Canon Rapid Fire, or a Phaser Lance, so as to render it game-breakingly unbalanced.
Mostly already mentioned, but...
A 8 second cooldown, possibly reducable to 1 second, vs 30/15 second or 1 min. I can easily see the worries, though till I try it I am on the "interesting toy, but doesn't really fit any current build" side of the fence.
So...
Why isn't it buffed by +Torpedo Damage consoles/bonuses, if it's not boosted by +Beam/Cannon consoles/bonuses? It IS supposed to be a Torpedo, isn't it?
Is the Torpedo: High Yield version targetable?
Awesome that Feedback Pulse will feedback on this... it could get really funny that way. Is it also subject to Reverse Shield Polarity?
Does it proc projectile and/or torpedo Duty Officers, Traits, Concentrate Firepower, and so on?
Why Antiproton? Sure it's a good fit thematically since that's what the Entity's energy bolts are... but isn't that the current ideal damage-type anyway without the only Energy Torpedo out there? Though, if we're going off the the Entity's damage type, why isn't it purple?
Thank, if any of these get answered.
I suspect the answer to most of the questions is "it's a torpedo that doesn't do kinetic damage"
So it should proc torp doffs and traits, concentrate firepower *might* work but will only get the HY and not any damage buff, and probably the +torp damage consoles are hooked up so they give +kinetic damage so they wouldn't work on it.
The thing is, it allows only Antiproton Destroyer/Escorts to benefit from it, by stacking a T:HY/T:S to existing B:O and C:RF (that does stack up to major spike potential, though). Since the Torpedo doesn't actually benefit from +Torpedo bonuses it fails in the counterpoint that should have been available... the ability for a Torpedo user to actually do decent damage to a target's shields. The concept is neat, but as implemented is of extremely limited value.
It really needs to be an actual Torpedo with an Antiproton damage-type, rather than an Energy Weapon with Torpedo flavoring. :P
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Borticus, just a couple things I would appreciate if you could clear up.
Is this really a torpedo? If so why is it not boosted by +Torp consoles? If it is not boosted by +Torp consoles, could you rename it to something along the lines of Heavy Antiproton Energy Shard? If it is not boosted by +Torp consoles, then why is it boosted by torpedo abilities?
An improvement for this torpedo would be to make it only boosted by +Torp consoles and NOT Antiproton consoles since that way it will actually benefit torpedo ships that need a way to lower the shields. Otherwise you are simply giving energy weapon ships another weapon that makes them even more overpowered than they are.
Something New just got realeased. Unleash the Ball Baby Jones squad. One torp really all this drama about one simple torp. We have not even seen it yet we cry??? :eek: Really is that all you people do is troll the forums for something to cry about? Lets see it first then make judgement there is plenty off stuff already in game way more OP then this torp is gonna be. Oh wait that's your stuff right thought it was gonna last forever and now your creep is disappearing. :cool:
the problem is, that this thing isnt only OP (because only having to stack ONE CONSOLE for torp AND energy, bo3 and HY3 maxing)
BUT ALSO COMPLETELY ILLOGICAL AS IDEA when it comes to "launcher" or "volley" weapon.
this ****ing thing isnt "science fictionally possible" even fiction has its limits in the prior established rules.
its either a "tube" launched by a "launcher" beeing a projectile thats filled with AP based detonation matrix (this one is a mass object that gets pushed out of a gunlike mechanism, and selfpropelled later, dealing impact dmg by speed+detonation matrix)
OR its a volley fired by a magnetometric release through a volley projection system that uses magnetfields to collect, ball and then release energy into a direction.
you cannot have both mixed, because a launcher would not be able to "push" energy out of the tube. try collecting energy into a magnum and fire it ... its not possible.
this is complete madness.
if its a tube projectile: it would do more dmg on shields, cause the impact would release a nondirected energyexplosion thats normally hitting shields (antiproton), so those torpedos, if stopped and "detonated" by shields (like 50% of the time) would then do lets say 1/2 dmg to the shields, instead of 1/10
their dmg to hull would be "basic" with dmg type antiproton detonation.
then its benefitting from torpedo HY and spread (because its a tube launched ...) but their main dmg detonation is fuled by Ap instead of kinetic impact. okay. that would be FINE.
if its a "volley" then it would be more an energyweapon, not fired by tubelaunchers, and thereby not benefitting from HY and spread, but from scatter volley and rapidfire.
also they would do full dmg on shields, and their "pseudokinetic" impact would be like that of a cannon. so basically it would just be an antiproton single, ultra-heavy cannon. and so ...
this torpedo may not even be op (because thats just a matter of basedmg to cooldown) but its completely ILLOGICAL trekwise and even to currently established launcher or volley systems.
this thing is just not possible the way they claim it.
it hurts every prior introduced rule of kinetic and energy and for beeing a volley its even hurting distance/closeness rule for volley type weapons.
basically its hurting to much rules, and its hurting rules that exclude each other!!!
(other wepaons like the cutting beam only hurt ONE rule ..., or like that cannon that doesnt diminish with range, or those that deal kin microprojectiles)
this weapon hurts EVERY rule about weaponry and its hurting laws of physics as well.
or (7x 1k )x150% + 1 launcher 5000k unbuffed. or mixtures of those!
now the new torpedo will offer:
CASE B
( 7x1k AP energy + yyy amount Apkin dmg) x 150%
so now to not let this torpedo get out f hand, and still let it partially scale with energy, the basedmg has to be lowered.
a basedmg of half a quantum would still make this thing 75% stronger than the other nonbuffe quantum of case A
basically the basedmg has to be exteremely low to make that intentional double dip not OP, because you can now max both the torpedo and the energy without even having a penalty at all for buffing energy or buffing torpedo. (basically this double dip has no sideeffects at all, thats why its op)
its combining maxed energy with still yet a buffed torpedo, normally its either or, or both with less amount each.
so its per se, in sense of idea a balance problem. cause balance is: you max one, or the other, or both half.
now you max the one , and the other, and even if the other (torp) is having less basedmg its an overal balance shift towards torpedos.
so basically for this trade, the torp has to have a neg sideeffect, but it doesnt. it even has further benefits. (besides forcing you into the best energytype ^^) beeing usable by HY and Spread.
Borticus, just a couple things I would appreciate if you could clear up.
Is this really a torpedo? If so why is it not boosted by +Torp consoles? If it is not boosted by +Torp consoles, could you rename it to something along the lines of Heavy Antiproton Energy Shard? If it is not boosted by +Torp consoles, then why is it boosted by torpedo abilities?
An improvement for this torpedo would be to make it only boosted by +Torp consoles and NOT Antiproton consoles since that way it will actually benefit torpedo ships that need a way to lower the shields. Otherwise you are simply giving energy weapon ships another weapon that makes them even more overpowered than they are.
Thanks!
because they are making up things that are 100% colliding with the basic game rules.
basic game is:
2 defense systems
2 damgetypes hurting diff systems. (here ocurs the first imbalance: energy hurts BOTH, hull and shields fully)
you buff either one OR the other, or both for half amount
since the whole system is flawed in its very core, energy is already better naked. (i say naked cause traits, buffs, mechanics, bo-abilities) because its equally hurting both defenses.
thats where the imbalance starts. its like a compelte shift over and over in the game, about mechanics, abilities and traits just to counter this one flaw in the core mechanic ...
torps got 10 traits just because of this core imabalnce of torps suffering shield defense reduction ,while beams dont suffer def penealty on hull, which they should, unless its a borg-kin-cutting beam!!!
Please explain your thoughts on how this is so different from a Beam Overload, or a cycle of Canon Rapid Fire, or a Phaser Lance, so as to render it game-breakingly unbalanced.
Assuming it can be used with high Yield that means you can fire it every 2 seconds for 20 seconds. That's not a problem with other torpedo's due to the 75% kinetic resistance. But 10 high yield torpedo shots over 20 seconds without 75% kinetic resistance will kill any shields. It will be able to do 5+ Beam Overload style hits in the span of 1 normail Beam overload. Or to put it another way it would be easy to do 40 Beam overload style hits in 60seconds every 60 seconds.
the more i think about that thing, the worse it gets.
lets say, this torepdovolley type starts with a basdmg malus to make it not get out of hand at 5 console ships: then the torpedo would be basically useless for every ship that has not more than 2 tac consoles.
if the angle is at one console, then iot will defenetely get out of hand 4 tacconsoles later.
this is just not right. this torpedo is just killing every last bit of balance if its released the way itsp lanned.
you cant cross the line between either maxing kin or maxing energy, when theres literally no tradeoff what-so-ever.
i mean, every special torpedo has had its tradeoff. neutronic had higher basedmg (20%) but a 30%raised cd, so it was good for unbuffed or buffed maxed out HY or spread.
i cannot see how this torpedo has any tradeoffs.
its scaling with energyweapons scaling. even if its just scaling with 50% basedmg its overtopping a neutronic and having half cooldown on a 5tac ship and leaving you with no tradeoff in cooldown (neutronic), energyweapon malus (like this torpedo coudl use up energy wepaon power maybe?), or utility malus (its even having access to spread and HY) and its ALSO having better impact on shields?
this isnt right.
game and balance are about benefit and tradeof.
whats the tradeof of this torpedo, besides beeing useless on certain! ships? (thats not a tradeoff, thas basically another hit on balancing!)
Our Crystalline Entity event is coming back! For three weeks, Captains will be able to queue up to defeat the Crystalline Entity and earn tons of rewards!
if the starting dmg is 3500 liek the tooltip suggests. then it will have a max of omg:
100% skillbased + 200% with best AP mag regs
thats 15k dmg per shot on a 5console escort all 8seconds.
by tuned up neutronics are at 10k/15sec
come on, this cant be serious ...
really.
i dont dare to ask: but will it eventually NOT profit from omega shearing maybe? i mean: 40% of that as bleedthrough dmg ?!
come on, this is just killing every bit of balance rests in this game. this is madness.
my fully buffed neutronic is already pretty cool since i found out its a quantum ...
but this will have 30% more dmg and half cooldown this is just. wheres the tradeoff for all the dmg?
will it need weapon power to activate and drain energy or what (since its using Ap mags, it shoudl be fed by that system end thereby drain 30 weaponpower when fired or sth ...? what tradeoff?
I'd even be fine with it if it had a long recharge AND be absorbed by shields innate kinetic resistance. It's already boosted by AP consoles, letting it to go blast off shields would be the last straw.
Next
Quantum Dual Heavy Cannons Mk XIV [CrtD]x2 [Spr]
You know it's happening. Bort's line "you should see it, it's gorgeous to look at" was an insult to my and others intelligence. Had to be kidding me, everyone is horrified by how bad that torpedo is going to be and he tries to deceive me speaking of "how cool it is", after unleashing a more terrific list of specifics. I mean, do they really think I can care of the FX when they're re-releasing the old bugged Neutronic torpedo with better stats?!
I'd even be fine with it if it had a long recharge AND be absorbed by shields innate kinetic resistance. It's already boosted by AP consoles, letting it to go blast off shields would be the last straw.
yep.
a HY3 would now make that thing kill the shield with the first torp hitting it, while the other 3one land on the hull.
i really cannot believe this. this is to strong. it should scale with ... lets say ... 15% of the 30% console or have a diminishing return around 100%+
i mean, just ...
5x30% Ap on a 3.5k torp that gets 100% of skilltree then HY x4 that thing .... thats 35k hy3 and not counting in any alphas or decloaks.
that could be a 120k crit, thats completely UNAVOIDABLE ... (a normal kinetic could still be sucked up by shieldcap draining at least 12k of that bleedtherough from your hull still, if you had 12001k facing ...)
but THIS THING is like a borg torpedo hy plasma. its killing you even if your tacteam would instantly convert all facing power to one side, it would still suck up your shields AND get your hull to zero.
I'd even be fine with it if it had a long recharge AND be absorbed by shields innate kinetic resistance. It's already boosted by AP consoles, letting it to go blast off shields would be the last straw.
Next
Quantum Dual Heavy Cannons Mk XIV [CrtD]x2 [Spr]
You know it's happening. Bort's line "you should see it, it's gorgeous to look at" was an insult to my and others intelligence. Had to be kidding me, everyone is horrified by how bad that torpedo is going to be and he tries to deceive me speaking of "how cool it is", after unleashing a more terrific list of specifics. I mean, do they really think I can care of the FX when they're re-releasing the old bugged Neutronic torpedo with better stats?!
im all for things looking cool, i don't have a problem with that, but the way he phrased the how is it op question, he actually thinks this thing is totally legit and fits like a glove into the rest of the game wile doing no harm.
im all for things looking cool, i don't have a problem with that, but the way he phrased the how is it op question, he actually thinks this thing is totally legit and fits like a glove into the rest of the game wile doing no harm.
Depends on their definition of "game", which is a synonym of PvE for them.
But hey, let them release how they want, more shinies to kill NPCs. They'll shortly get to the point where NPCs will be so easy to kill that they're going to leave for lack of challenge. There isn't already challenge with PvE, but uncontrolled power creep destroys the game.
Depends on their definition of "game", which is a synonym of PvE for them.
But hey, let them release how they want, more shinies to kill NPCs. They'll shortly get to the point where NPCs will be so easy to kill that they're going to leave for lack of challenge. There isn't already challenge with PvE, but uncontrolled power creep destroys the game.
Oh wait...
Hell even in PvE this thing is OP. The biggest issue with PvE is that they just raised the HPs of like all the level 60 mobs to unbelievable levels because of power creep, this is just going to cause them to raise HPs even more for no reason at all.
Comments
Also, Phaser Lance doesn't benefit from Photon consoles. Plasma Torpedoes don't benefit from Plasma Energy consoles.
If you wanted full power torpedoes you ran a torpedo boat with all their shield slamming goodness.
Now you just run AP like everyone else has been doing since their introduction.
The iconic Star Trek beam weapon is left in the dust in favor of this OP antiproton TRIBBLE.
Cryptic get your friggin donkeytrain in order!
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Was it just too hard to give the player the opporunity to choose the dmg of the torpedo?
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't shield's high resilience to torpedos based largely on the assumption that torpedos universally deal kinetic damage? Knowing that does this mean that because this torpedo deals antiproton damage that a shield will eat pretty much the full force of the torpedo (and consequently allowing a proportionately higher amount of bleedthrough damage)?
Example, say we have a kinetic torp deals 5000 damage to a shielded target. As I understand it 75% of that damage will be reduced with 90% of the remaining 1250 damage being dealt to shields and 10% bleeding through to the hull (with that 10% being subject to kinetic resist). Now say we have 5000 antiproton damage from this torp. Does the torp still incur a similar amount of reduced damage against a shielded target or is it going to find itself eating 4500 shield damage and 500 to the hull?
Edit: Beam Overload, CRF and Phaser Lance don't have a 1 second global cooldown that can be reached with 1 proc of a projectile weapons officer doff.
basically all energy-weapons are all same "build"mechanic ... phasers dont drastically operate different than disruptors do ...
so basically there should only be ONE energyweapon damage console, while the differen "types" should actually buff less dmg, but improve the PROC of that weapon.
so youd have:
30% dmg energy for all energy weapon types (at mk xii veryrare)
while phaser,antiprot,dis,polaron whatever should give: 20% dmg increase+20% proc-chance-increase for a mk xii veryrare console
(the numbers arent mathematical, they are made up)
so you can either enhance weapon dmg, or weapontype procc
this would then correctly reflect energyweapontypes.
same goes for torpedos: basically they are all kinetics ...
so there shoudl be one kinetic dmg raising console
and different multiple ones to buff the "specific" addition the torpedo comes with.
(since photon and quantum dont have anything like this, there cd could be reduced by specific photon/quantum consoles or they just get a specialty maybe)
basically linking proc and energyweapon"type" is basically wrong in the core. cause the type doesnt do anything.
just to make it clear: plasmabeams arent different than a phaser array. both use energy to get focussed through a lens that bundles the stream of energy into draining specifically force fields (just a sidenote: energyweapons are rather weak on hulls, unless its a kinetic cutting beam like the borg use ...)
its just the way their energy is produced and redirected and then emitted. basically its all the same. so raising their dmg potential more or less is dependand from a) emitters and b) the power core its connected to (wich is weapon energy level in this game) - the lens on the other hand is kind of the specific for a type of beam and determines how well something can be at its specifics
lets now take these two words:
one console would be an emitter array booster:
its there for DAMAGE (cause the emitter array is basically the thing then converts energy income into a stream of energy, before burning apart, better emittters. more dmg can be directed through them)
while the focussing lens:
would deliver better proccs (eg a better focussed phaser willl hit subsystem points better, a more focussed disruptor will hit harder before its energy dissipates)
so basically the whole approach to energy and kinetic base DAMAGE is wrong in this game.
IIRC, only the Gal-X's Phaser Lance doesn't boost off Phaser Consoles.
The Vesta's and Phantom's are directly boosted by consoles, as well as the Lance on the Ar'Kif? Warbird and Faeht.
Granted, none of them are capable of massive AoE like the Gal-X's Phaser Lance.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=22607441&postcount=80
In short, it's an energy weapon that has a few characteristics that make it behave like a projectile.... except it's not one.
Still don't know what will be used to upgrade it.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
yes: and this would also mean, that its bull**** against hulls, like energyweapons SHOULD be.
like i said in my prior post: the whole damagetype weapontype approach is wrong and NON startrek in this game.
torpedos ALL do kinetic. thats WHY forcefields CAN suck them up, but hulls cant (unless they are armoured)
energyweapons are all "energy" therefore they KILL SHILEDS but dont kill HULLS (not same ratio as kin vs shields)
also there are basically no different types rather than kin or energy in the first instance.
so:
kin vs hull 100%(minus armor) and 1/10 ratio against shields, PLUS lower shield cap should result in more bleedthrough, while full cap should NEVER bleedthrough (besides transphasics and beamthrough of course)
energy vs shields 100%, vs hull 1/2 ratio (while cannons should have that amount raised by less distance, and lowered by long distance, ther hull dmg potential can rise, not their shield one! because the volley part is again kinetic speed, thats sucked up by shields easily ...), also DEM: bypassing shields should LOWER the damage on the shields, NOT ADD UP. energy that bypasses shield cannot reduce its capacity same time ... its either BYPASSING or HITTING it ...
if i throw one stone through a window, it breaks the window, if i throw that stone "around" the window, it cannot damage the window AND bypass it. thats basically magic wonderland kind of wrong ...
the whole idea of weapontypes needs a redo in concernes of : structure and diversity. (currently theres everything mixed up, its structural logic approach is puzzled for the sake of diversity)
thats where nearly all imbalance between arrays, torps, cannons whatever derives from.
(the CE has no shields, very high energy resists and an absorption period where only kinetic damage hurts it.)
Mostly already mentioned, but...
A 8 second cooldown, possibly reducable to 1 second, vs 30/15 second or 1 min. I can easily see the worries, though till I try it I am on the "interesting toy, but doesn't really fit any current build" side of the fence.
The thing is, it allows only Antiproton Destroyer/Escorts to benefit from it, by stacking a T:HY/T:S to existing B:O and C:RF (that does stack up to major spike potential, though). Since the Torpedo doesn't actually benefit from +Torpedo bonuses it fails in the counterpoint that should have been available... the ability for a Torpedo user to actually do decent damage to a target's shields. The concept is neat, but as implemented is of extremely limited value.
It really needs to be an actual Torpedo with an Antiproton damage-type, rather than an Energy Weapon with Torpedo flavoring. :P
Is this really a torpedo? If so why is it not boosted by +Torp consoles? If it is not boosted by +Torp consoles, could you rename it to something along the lines of Heavy Antiproton Energy Shard? If it is not boosted by +Torp consoles, then why is it boosted by torpedo abilities?
An improvement for this torpedo would be to make it only boosted by +Torp consoles and NOT Antiproton consoles since that way it will actually benefit torpedo ships that need a way to lower the shields. Otherwise you are simply giving energy weapon ships another weapon that makes them even more overpowered than they are.
Thanks!
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
BUT ALSO COMPLETELY ILLOGICAL AS IDEA when it comes to "launcher" or "volley" weapon.
this ****ing thing isnt "science fictionally possible" even fiction has its limits in the prior established rules.
its either a "tube" launched by a "launcher" beeing a projectile thats filled with AP based detonation matrix (this one is a mass object that gets pushed out of a gunlike mechanism, and selfpropelled later, dealing impact dmg by speed+detonation matrix)
OR its a volley fired by a magnetometric release through a volley projection system that uses magnetfields to collect, ball and then release energy into a direction.
you cannot have both mixed, because a launcher would not be able to "push" energy out of the tube. try collecting energy into a magnum and fire it ... its not possible.
this is complete madness.
if its a tube projectile: it would do more dmg on shields, cause the impact would release a nondirected energyexplosion thats normally hitting shields (antiproton), so those torpedos, if stopped and "detonated" by shields (like 50% of the time) would then do lets say 1/2 dmg to the shields, instead of 1/10
their dmg to hull would be "basic" with dmg type antiproton detonation.
then its benefitting from torpedo HY and spread (because its a tube launched ...) but their main dmg detonation is fuled by Ap instead of kinetic impact. okay. that would be FINE.
if its a "volley" then it would be more an energyweapon, not fired by tubelaunchers, and thereby not benefitting from HY and spread, but from scatter volley and rapidfire.
also they would do full dmg on shields, and their "pseudokinetic" impact would be like that of a cannon. so basically it would just be an antiproton single, ultra-heavy cannon. and so ...
this torpedo may not even be op (because thats just a matter of basedmg to cooldown) but its completely ILLOGICAL trekwise and even to currently established launcher or volley systems.
this thing is just not possible the way they claim it.
it hurts every prior introduced rule of kinetic and energy and for beeing a volley its even hurting distance/closeness rule for volley type weapons.
basically its hurting to much rules, and its hurting rules that exclude each other!!!
(other wepaons like the cutting beam only hurt ONE rule ..., or like that cannon that doesnt diminish with range, or those that deal kin microprojectiles)
this weapon hurts EVERY rule about weaponry and its hurting laws of physics as well.
until now, you either max energy or torpedo.
max 5 consoles each lets say 30%
CASE A in a phaser/quantum this would mean:
either 7x 1k + 1 launcher 5000k x 150%
or (7x 1k )x150% + 1 launcher 5000k unbuffed. or mixtures of those!
now the new torpedo will offer:
CASE B
( 7x1k AP energy + yyy amount Apkin dmg) x 150%
so now to not let this torpedo get out f hand, and still let it partially scale with energy, the basedmg has to be lowered.
a basedmg of half a quantum would still make this thing 75% stronger than the other nonbuffe quantum of case A
basically the basedmg has to be exteremely low to make that intentional double dip not OP, because you can now max both the torpedo and the energy without even having a penalty at all for buffing energy or buffing torpedo. (basically this double dip has no sideeffects at all, thats why its op)
its combining maxed energy with still yet a buffed torpedo, normally its either or, or both with less amount each.
so its per se, in sense of idea a balance problem. cause balance is: you max one, or the other, or both half.
now you max the one , and the other, and even if the other (torp) is having less basedmg its an overal balance shift towards torpedos.
so basically for this trade, the torp has to have a neg sideeffect, but it doesnt. it even has further benefits. (besides forcing you into the best energytype ^^) beeing usable by HY and Spread.
this is, per idea and intentional imbalance.
because they are making up things that are 100% colliding with the basic game rules.
basic game is:
2 defense systems
2 damgetypes hurting diff systems. (here ocurs the first imbalance: energy hurts BOTH, hull and shields fully)
you buff either one OR the other, or both for half amount
since the whole system is flawed in its very core, energy is already better naked. (i say naked cause traits, buffs, mechanics, bo-abilities) because its equally hurting both defenses.
thats where the imbalance starts. its like a compelte shift over and over in the game, about mechanics, abilities and traits just to counter this one flaw in the core mechanic ...
torps got 10 traits just because of this core imabalnce of torps suffering shield defense reduction ,while beams dont suffer def penealty on hull, which they should, unless its a borg-kin-cutting beam!!!
lets say, this torepdovolley type starts with a basdmg malus to make it not get out of hand at 5 console ships: then the torpedo would be basically useless for every ship that has not more than 2 tac consoles.
if the angle is at one console, then iot will defenetely get out of hand 4 tacconsoles later.
this is just not right. this torpedo is just killing every last bit of balance if its released the way itsp lanned.
you cant cross the line between either maxing kin or maxing energy, when theres literally no tradeoff what-so-ever.
i mean, every special torpedo has had its tradeoff. neutronic had higher basedmg (20%) but a 30%raised cd, so it was good for unbuffed or buffed maxed out HY or spread.
i cannot see how this torpedo has any tradeoffs.
its scaling with energyweapons scaling. even if its just scaling with 50% basedmg its overtopping a neutronic and having half cooldown on a 5tac ship and leaving you with no tradeoff in cooldown (neutronic), energyweapon malus (like this torpedo coudl use up energy wepaon power maybe?), or utility malus (its even having access to spread and HY) and its ALSO having better impact on shields?
this isnt right.
game and balance are about benefit and tradeof.
whats the tradeof of this torpedo, besides beeing useless on certain! ships? (thats not a tradeoff, thas basically another hit on balancing!)
Let me get this straight...
you guys built an event around a entity that Trek lore says can be destroyed with a tuning fork? Seriously?
This calls for a Bull Shannon Head Slap.
But seriously, sounds like it could be fun.
And 50,000 Dilithium? Well I'm still pretty new so to me that sounds like This. so I guess I will HAVE to try it out.
But be warned - My ship is well stocked with TUNING FORKS or at least one Tachyon Beam.
maybe it will get a nerf sometime down the track though.
also i already have spec points in both energy and projectiles - yay. another grind is coming up for me
though i will have to spend heaps to change my weapons to ap.
100% skillbased + 200% with best AP mag regs
thats 15k dmg per shot on a 5console escort all 8seconds.
by tuned up neutronics are at 10k/15sec
come on, this cant be serious ...
really.
i dont dare to ask: but will it eventually NOT profit from omega shearing maybe? i mean: 40% of that as bleedthrough dmg ?!
come on, this is just killing every bit of balance rests in this game. this is madness.
my fully buffed neutronic is already pretty cool since i found out its a quantum ...
but this will have 30% more dmg and half cooldown this is just. wheres the tradeoff for all the dmg?
will it need weapon power to activate and drain energy or what (since its using Ap mags, it shoudl be fed by that system end thereby drain 30 weaponpower when fired or sth ...? what tradeoff?
Next
Quantum Dual Heavy Cannons Mk XIV [CrtD]x2 [Spr]
You know it's happening. Bort's line "you should see it, it's gorgeous to look at" was an insult to my and others intelligence. Had to be kidding me, everyone is horrified by how bad that torpedo is going to be and he tries to deceive me speaking of "how cool it is", after unleashing a more terrific list of specifics. I mean, do they really think I can care of the FX when they're re-releasing the old bugged Neutronic torpedo with better stats?!
yep.
a HY3 would now make that thing kill the shield with the first torp hitting it, while the other 3one land on the hull.
i really cannot believe this. this is to strong. it should scale with ... lets say ... 15% of the 30% console or have a diminishing return around 100%+
i mean, just ...
5x30% Ap on a 3.5k torp that gets 100% of skilltree then HY x4 that thing .... thats 35k hy3 and not counting in any alphas or decloaks.
that could be a 120k crit, thats completely UNAVOIDABLE ... (a normal kinetic could still be sucked up by shieldcap draining at least 12k of that bleedtherough from your hull still, if you had 12001k facing ...)
but THIS THING is like a borg torpedo hy plasma. its killing you even if your tacteam would instantly convert all facing power to one side, it would still suck up your shields AND get your hull to zero.
come on.
im all for things looking cool, i don't have a problem with that, but the way he phrased the how is it op question, he actually thinks this thing is totally legit and fits like a glove into the rest of the game wile doing no harm.
Depends on their definition of "game", which is a synonym of PvE for them.
But hey, let them release how they want, more shinies to kill NPCs. They'll shortly get to the point where NPCs will be so easy to kill that they're going to leave for lack of challenge. There isn't already challenge with PvE, but uncontrolled power creep destroys the game.
Oh wait...
I would like to know what are yoiu guys thinking when you create something like this.
Hell even in PvE this thing is OP. The biggest issue with PvE is that they just raised the HPs of like all the level 60 mobs to unbelievable levels because of power creep, this is just going to cause them to raise HPs even more for no reason at all.