But compare that to anything that's already out there...
...I haven't seen anybody show that it would be anywhere near as deadly.
Somebody running SS/TS-Neut/Iso is going to give that up?
Somebody running DOFF'd BO/CRF/HY E-Bio is going to give that up?
whats to give up? neutronic got nerfed, and HY bio still deals knetic, the AP torp could deal much less damage and get better results thanks to energy damage. there's even a pretty good chance a HY ap torp works exactly like the HY bio.
Omega Kinetic Shearing can't add that 40% Kinetic DoT since there's no Kinetic.
Concentrate Firepower can't add that 10%/15%/20% Kinetic since there's no Kinetic.
Expose Weakness & Violent Detonation debuff Kinetic Damage Resistance Rating not Antiproton.
2pc KHG/AMACO won't affect it.
2pc Nukara won't affect it.
AMP boosts better than 2pc Obelisk.
Rule 62 won't affect it.
The Defense Platform won't affect it.
The 4pc Command Platforms won't affect it.
2pc T'varo won't affect it.
Starship Mastery won't affect it.
even if you could stack all of that on one ship, your not going to outdo 4 or 5 actual tac consoles, that also buff your energy weapons.
Will it trigger the Solanae Engines?
Will it trigger the Solanae Shield?
4pc Solanae 50% Energy to Shield Healing.
Will it trigger the Counter-Command Shield?
Omega Force Shield.
MACO/AKHG Shields.
Nukara Shield.
And that list is going to go on for a bit.
How many folks can slot FBP vs. those in a Vesta, eh?
Scattering Field will affect it.
How will the quick stacking Elite Fleet Shields look for that Antiproton damage, yeah?
full stacks from an elite shield are still going to be 20%-30% less then typical knetic resistance. FBP is nothing new, with the spike you can stack with this torp, its the perfect extra burst for dealing with a FBP boat between up times.
It just goes from bad to worse the more one looks at it.
It looks like a useless torp for anybody not running AP, and for anybody running AP it looks like a near-useless torp.
I'm at a loss with the complaints about it being OP, and I'm surprised more folks aren't asking for it to be buffed so as not to be so useless.
But in a game where the majority of folks don't bother with the min/max stuff, it's got that redeeming quality of it being "pretty"...which will be cool to a bunch of folks out there.
To be blunt, if the argument is that it might make BoPs suck a little less when compared to a Faeht or Phantom so nerf it...I'm a little surprised you'd be making that argument.
at worst you end up having to transition to an AP build if you want to use this, and thats not really much of an arm twist. they are the best energy type, and now craftable in any mod combo.
you have done the math, how can you suddenly think this is no big deal? more than anything, its all about how over the top shield knetic res is, and how this is so easily fits with an energy burst damage build.
I doubt i'll be using this. I love grav torps too much. Can we just get a fleet Gravametric console please? I'd love to run 4x of those on my sci ship and crush enemy ships with my overhwhelming GW build in 10 seconds flat.
Meh, just another shiny trinket for us to drool/rage over until the next event. It will only be relevant for like a month or two, until the next big thing. I bet that nobody ever rages over the OPness of the supremacy starship trait anymore, and such a big deal it seemed to have been at the time...
Meh, just another shiny trinket for us to drool/rage over until the next event. It will only be relevant for like a month or two, until the next big thing. I bet that nobody ever rages over the OPness of the supremacy starship trait anymore, and such a big deal it seemed to have been at the time...
Yup^^
On a positive note (for once), I want to seriously thank Borticus for daring to do this. It's a new twist on an old mechanic, it has hilariously pissed off the usual members of the forum dwelling pvp crowd (that has unsurprisingly rebuked all the great points virusdancer made about it), and it gives my AP dedicated Pathfinder build a much more interesting method of contributing extra dps. I really hope rarity upgrades adds an ARC modifier to it by default (not random chance).
Bort, could you please use this as a springboard to introduce more energy torps? How about adding them as craftable in the Torp R&D school, but keep this AP one unique to this event? The one I would suggest is a strong tetryon torp that acts and hits similar to the hargh'peng(sp?), but also has a proc chance to refract (bounce) like an isometric charge.
Why do you feel the game has become pro-AP? I've been trying to get this nailed down...and I'm not having any luck. People keep saying it, but the closest I've gotten so far is somebody ignoring everything else and focusing on the ability to slot 2x ODs.
What other proc can players affect both the chance and the severity of?
Phaser? Nope. 2.5% chance and that's it.
Polaron and Tetryon? You can affect the amount of the drain but not the chance.
Disruptor? Nope. Stuck with the base chance to apply.
Now let's look at AP. Is it a 2.5% chance of applying an extra 20% damage? Nope. Whenever you crit, you get an extra crtd mod. So you can boost the chance and the severity. Unlike any other proc. And is that proc worthless like phasers? Nope.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Why do you feel the game has become pro-AP? I've been trying to get this nailed down...and I'm not having any luck. People keep saying it, but the closest I've gotten so far is somebody ignoring everything else and focusing on the ability to slot 2x ODs.
I don't necessarily mean to attribute the pro-AP feel directly to the devs pushing AP, but there is enough happening with AP as a damage type that I feel the wider community is starting to push AP as the only viable option.
Theory crafters has determined that AP is the "best" energy type, and if you ask for build advice, you will more often then not be given AP as the definitive answer. Due to how the 360 beams work, you can get up to 3 360 AP beams on the back end of a ship by using the crafted, an Ancient, and an upgraded Ancient, add a KCB into the mix and a beam build can always face it's target, which is important for many sci abilities.
Again, I'm not trying to say its over whelming in any way, just a concern that there is enough of an advantage to AP that I am seeing more and more people proclaim it the "right" answer. I don't want not running red beams to be something that gets people crapped on.
I just worry about what will happen if this does create another sizable power creep and the inevitable HP increase (or other adjustment) that will follow to keep the dps treadmill consistent. I no longer feel I am getting better at the game when I improve my dps; I just hope that I am not falling further behind so that everything will take even more time to complete if it's not a failure.
Out of curiosity, why not have it enhanced by +torpedo damage bonuses?
If it were, it would appeal to torp builds as well as AP builds.
A person has to pick +torp or +AP for a console and there is nothing does both +torp and +ap, so you wouldn't be able to 'double dip' or anything.
Anyway, please consider allowing +torpedo stuff to enhance it, if only to make it attractive to a more diverse number of builds.
No Geko is not going to do that
He wants this to appeal to energy skilled and console based anti proton builds WHICH
Are already the most damaging builds in PvE and possibly very strong in PvP
Whom these high DPSers and PvPers will be happy about getting MOAR DPS without changing their already OP builds and skill sets while lowering their energy use from the 1 power to arm torpedo
These people have spent lots of cash to be OP so its logical to throw them a DPS bone
Also the rest of the players will see the increased DPS from these people and change their builds to antiproton and will have to buy all the consoles and weapons and then upgrade them
Then we will have antiproton online !
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
putting aside that im meanwhile sick of being in grinding events all the time without any interuption... AP torp?
not only that this is an idiotic idea ... i also thought that cryptic would have learned from the last time when damage is generated from consoles which actually are not directly related to that damage/weapon type.
it soon can be expected that this torp is causing too much damage (more than any other torp can do) due to fact that it falls out of line just like the plasma consoles did with the dot
and this torp certainly will fall victim to one of the next upcoming nerfs
The tooltip shown in today's Dev Blog is approximately the same item that will be rewarded, but the fine details are still undergoing one last tuning pass. It was supposed to be done before the Blog was published, but unfortunately we failed to hit that deadline. We'll try and get an updated/final tooltip into the blog as soon as it's available (should be today).
Do we know if the tooltip in the blog has been updated yet?
Personally, I don't want to have to grind out a set of PvE gear to grind out a set of PvP gear - on the off chance I ever decide that I want to PvP...
Or even just do episode content.
I agree with one of the earlier posters - please spend time making all matched set builds and matched weapon sets perform roughly on par with each other, the main differences should be more cosmetic than anything else, and torpedos should actually have more shield penetration.
I have yet to see an MMO that can truly balance PvP and PvE without completely separating not just the players but the game mechanics. PvP players like the numbers, they like getting an edge up over each other - they will always be the most demanding and knowledgeable player base. They're also the smallest which is bad for subscriber games (I have no idea of PvPrs are more profitable with the micro transaction model).
I'm pure unapologetic care bear. I'm completely sympathetic with PvP players dissatisfied with the consequences of compromise. I feel the same way from the PvE perspective.
An understandable concern, sir; I believe I have some suggestions.
as for energy weapons: the plasma and disruptor procs (DoT and resistance debuff, respectively) make them useful here - and this is before you get into their variants (i.e. Romulan plasma, bio-molecular disruptor, etc.);
cluster torpedoes (AKA minelayers) are always fun here (one mission each from the Breen and DR arcs offer them as a reward option) if folks are on the ball with using gravity wells to gather up the fragments. This also applies to the Omega launcher (specifically, it's high-yield mode, which fires a miniature form of the Unimatrices' plasma bolts)
I, guess, I'm too new to understand any of this. So I guess I'll stay back here and toss Tribbles at the CE.
But seriously, Gravity Well was the only part of those paragraphs I understood. Omega launcher? Not a clue.
Hmm... I have the Hargh'peng Torpedo Launcher from The Doomsday Device mission. Will that help against the CE?
I, guess, I'm too new to understand any of this. So I guess I'll stay back here and toss Tribbles at the CE.
But seriously, Gravity Well was the only part of those paragraphs I understood. Omega launcher? Not a clue.
Hmm... I have the Hargh'peng Torpedo Launcher from The Doomsday Device mission. Will that help against the CE?
Omega (Borg) reputation torpedo launcher. It can launch five torpedoes in rapid succession before it has to reload. If you use High Yield it launches a plasma bolt like the Borg Unimatrixes that will cause the vaporization animation if it kills the target.
Plasma weapons apply a damage over time effect. Disruptors lower the damage resistance of the target.
The Entity doesn't have shields, subsystems, or power levels so weapon types that drain or disable those won't have their bonus effect do anything useful (Polaron, Phaser, Tetryon, for example).
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I'm expecting the price of AP Mags to sky rocket on or around the 18th of March then maybe a week or 2 after the event ends to see the Torpedo Launcher nerfed.
And what's up with that 2pc Obelisk providing that boost only to AP? That 2pc that requires giving up AMP in favor of a worse boost...hrmm. Oh well, it's not like Disruptors/Phasers have anything near that which doesn't require giving up AMP...oh wait. Well, it's not like Disruptors, Tetryon, Polaron, Plasma also have some Strength boosts that AP doesn't...oh wait. Well, there aren't any Disruptor/Phaser/Plasma console weapons or the like...oh wait. Course, this will be the first Projectile weapon that has any synergy with Energy weapons...oh wait. Well, this Crystal torp will be the first Projectile weapon that does other than Kinetic damage...oh wait.
It's not that Cryptic favors anything, it's that players favor something and cry that Cryptic doesn't favor what they favor.
Why do you feel the game has become pro-AP? I've been trying to get this nailed down...and I'm not having any luck. People keep saying it, but the closest I've gotten so far is somebody ignoring everything else and focusing on the ability to slot 2x ODs.
But compare that to anything that's already out there...
...I haven't seen anybody show that it would be anywhere near as deadly.
Somebody running SS/TS-Neut/Iso is going to give that up?
Somebody running DOFF'd BO/CRF/HY E-Bio is going to give that up?
I just see so many countless things that are far better that one could trip over them.
It's an AP Torp that only benefits from +AP gear and +All Damage...
Omega Kinetic Shearing can't add that 40% Kinetic DoT since there's no Kinetic.
Concentrate Firepower can't add that 10%/15%/20% Kinetic since there's no Kinetic.
Expose Weakness & Violent Detonation debuff Kinetic Damage Resistance Rating not Antiproton.
2pc KHG/AMACO won't affect it.
2pc Nukara won't affect it.
AMP boosts better than 2pc Obelisk.
Rule 62 won't affect it.
The Defense Platform won't affect it.
The 4pc Command Platforms won't affect it.
2pc T'varo won't affect it.
Starship Mastery won't affect it.
Will it trigger the Solanae Engines?
Will it trigger the Solanae Shield?
4pc Solanae 50% Energy to Shield Healing.
Will it trigger the Counter-Command Shield?
Omega Force Shield.
MACO/AKHG Shields.
Nukara Shield.
And that list is going to go on for a bit.
How many folks can slot FBP vs. those in a Vesta, eh?
Scattering Field will affect it.
How will the quick stacking Elite Fleet Shields look for that Antiproton damage, yeah?
It just goes from bad to worse the more one looks at it.
It looks like a useless torp for anybody not running AP, and for anybody running AP it looks like a near-useless torp.
I'm at a loss with the complaints about it being OP, and I'm surprised more folks aren't asking for it to be buffed so as not to be so useless.
But in a game where the majority of folks don't bother with the min/max stuff, it's got that redeeming quality of it being "pretty"...which will be cool to a bunch of folks out there.
To be blunt, if the argument is that it might make BoPs suck a little less when compared to a Faeht or Phantom so nerf it...I'm a little surprised you'd be making that argument.
...Yeah, I don't really have anything to add, just that some people clearly didn't read through the whole thread, so I'm putting these great bits of information and insight right here again.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
@Darth_Protius and I have coined the term, "AP-BoE" (ball of Energy) for this weapon, as it it a much better name that describes the weapons' performance rather than the label of 'torpedo'.
Of course, now that we've done this, the weapon will be changed to kinetic damage, and then would be properly classified as a torpedo.
Still requesting an answer as to what Tech 'kits' will upgrade this; beams or projectiles? Or will this receive the same treatment like the torpedo consoles, where they can be upgraded by cannon or beam Tech only?
Omega (Borg) reputation torpedo launcher. It can launch five torpedoes in rapid succession before it has to reload. If you use High Yield it launches a plasma bolt like the Borg Unimatrixes that will cause the vaporization animation if it kills the target.
Plasma weapons apply a damage over time effect. Disruptors lower the damage resistance of the target.
The Entity doesn't have shields, subsystems, or power levels so weapon types that drain or disable those won't have their bonus effect do anything useful (Polaron, Phaser, Tetryon, for example).
Oh, so those weapons still do damage, they just don't do the specials. Got it. This sounds most like one of those - forget about finesse, just keep hitting it until it stops moving - kind of fights. I think I can do that.
Still it seems that some specials do affect it.
The following abilities will periodically remove multiple "Re-Crystalize" charges from the Entity:
Tachyon Beam
Charged Particle Burst
Energy Siphon
Tyken's Rift
try 1 = no entity spawning
try 2 = got no reward from killing the entity
try 3 = no entity spawning
try 4 = no entity spawning
try 5 = finally got a reward
WTF?!?
Since beginning 2014 EVERY damn event that cryptic does is bugged
Someone, some where must have already shattered the Crystalline Entity, because tiny crystal fragments are accumulating all over the streets and lawns of New Jersey.
Fortunately, I'm pretty sure that most of them can be brushed away with a broom. Or a shovel in the more heavily covered areas.
Oh, wait...
:: uses tricorder ::
It's cold. It's...
:: more scans ::
SNOW! My bad. Proceed with your destructive CE activities.
The Crystalline torpedo doesn't work with Concentrate Firepower. Well you get the High Yield shot if another torpedo caused a trigger. But by its self the Crystalline torpedo is not causing Concentrate Firepower to trigger and not causing torpedo's timers to refresh.
Yeah, this definitely needs a fix. Last night, hopping between my two Fleet Admirals, I encountered:
* One CC in which the entity did not spawn at all.
* At least three instances when the entity disappeared or shattered early, leaving us without rewards.
* One or two instances when the CC spawned, but none of the Tholian or Mirror ships spawned and the event couldn't be completed.
On the bright side, at least leaving those glitched CC instances didn't give me a penalty for "abandoning" a PvE queue event. On the not-so-bright side, not only did I not receive a single Crystal Shard, I also didn't get the R&D box reward.
If it helps at all with troubleshooting, each of these incidents were in the Advanced CC. I can't speak to what happens in the normal queue.
Comments
whats to give up? neutronic got nerfed, and HY bio still deals knetic, the AP torp could deal much less damage and get better results thanks to energy damage. there's even a pretty good chance a HY ap torp works exactly like the HY bio.
ONLY? it can ONLY be buffed by the same tac consoles that buff your AP weapons? that poor ap torp.
even if you could stack all of that on one ship, your not going to outdo 4 or 5 actual tac consoles, that also buff your energy weapons.
full stacks from an elite shield are still going to be 20%-30% less then typical knetic resistance. FBP is nothing new, with the spike you can stack with this torp, its the perfect extra burst for dealing with a FBP boat between up times.
at worst you end up having to transition to an AP build if you want to use this, and thats not really much of an arm twist. they are the best energy type, and now craftable in any mod combo.
you have done the math, how can you suddenly think this is no big deal? more than anything, its all about how over the top shield knetic res is, and how this is so easily fits with an energy burst damage build.
Yup^^
On a positive note (for once), I want to seriously thank Borticus for daring to do this. It's a new twist on an old mechanic, it has hilariously pissed off the usual members of the forum dwelling pvp crowd (that has unsurprisingly rebuked all the great points virusdancer made about it), and it gives my AP dedicated Pathfinder build a much more interesting method of contributing extra dps. I really hope rarity upgrades adds an ARC modifier to it by default (not random chance).
Bort, could you please use this as a springboard to introduce more energy torps? How about adding them as craftable in the Torp R&D school, but keep this AP one unique to this event? The one I would suggest is a strong tetryon torp that acts and hits similar to the hargh'peng(sp?), but also has a proc chance to refract (bounce) like an isometric charge.
What other proc can players affect both the chance and the severity of?
Phaser? Nope. 2.5% chance and that's it.
Polaron and Tetryon? You can affect the amount of the drain but not the chance.
Disruptor? Nope. Stuck with the base chance to apply.
Now let's look at AP. Is it a 2.5% chance of applying an extra 20% damage? Nope. Whenever you crit, you get an extra crtd mod. So you can boost the chance and the severity. Unlike any other proc. And is that proc worthless like phasers? Nope.
I don't necessarily mean to attribute the pro-AP feel directly to the devs pushing AP, but there is enough happening with AP as a damage type that I feel the wider community is starting to push AP as the only viable option.
Theory crafters has determined that AP is the "best" energy type, and if you ask for build advice, you will more often then not be given AP as the definitive answer. Due to how the 360 beams work, you can get up to 3 360 AP beams on the back end of a ship by using the crafted, an Ancient, and an upgraded Ancient, add a KCB into the mix and a beam build can always face it's target, which is important for many sci abilities.
Again, I'm not trying to say its over whelming in any way, just a concern that there is enough of an advantage to AP that I am seeing more and more people proclaim it the "right" answer. I don't want not running red beams to be something that gets people crapped on.
Description say: "Shields absorb most of the impact"
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9079163
So, yes, it will be boosted by AP tact console but I think this damage will still be considered kinetic since it's in the form of a torpedo.
It will be no more dangerous than a Neutronic torp.
I think Ker'rat and PVP is safe, lol
It's highly illogical!
No Geko is not going to do that
He wants this to appeal to energy skilled and console based anti proton builds WHICH
Are already the most damaging builds in PvE and possibly very strong in PvP
Whom these high DPSers and PvPers will be happy about getting MOAR DPS without changing their already OP builds and skill sets while lowering their energy use from the 1 power to arm torpedo
These people have spent lots of cash to be OP so its logical to throw them a DPS bone
Also the rest of the players will see the increased DPS from these people and change their builds to antiproton and will have to buy all the consoles and weapons and then upgrade them
Then we will have antiproton online !
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
not only that this is an idiotic idea ... i also thought that cryptic would have learned from the last time when damage is generated from consoles which actually are not directly related to that damage/weapon type.
it soon can be expected that this torp is causing too much damage (more than any other torp can do) due to fact that it falls out of line just like the plasma consoles did with the dot
and this torp certainly will fall victim to one of the next upcoming nerfs
Do we know if the tooltip in the blog has been updated yet?
That line looks to be in the standard torpedo description blurb. The damage is listed as antiproton, not kinetic.
I agree with one of the earlier posters - please spend time making all matched set builds and matched weapon sets perform roughly on par with each other, the main differences should be more cosmetic than anything else, and torpedos should actually have more shield penetration.
I have yet to see an MMO that can truly balance PvP and PvE without completely separating not just the players but the game mechanics. PvP players like the numbers, they like getting an edge up over each other - they will always be the most demanding and knowledgeable player base. They're also the smallest which is bad for subscriber games (I have no idea of PvPrs are more profitable with the micro transaction model).
I'm pure unapologetic care bear. I'm completely sympathetic with PvP players dissatisfied with the consequences of compromise. I feel the same way from the PvE perspective.
Mr. Gorbachev, build up this wall!
I, guess, I'm too new to understand any of this. So I guess I'll stay back here and toss Tribbles at the CE.
But seriously, Gravity Well was the only part of those paragraphs I understood. Omega launcher?
Hmm... I have the Hargh'peng Torpedo Launcher from The Doomsday Device mission. Will that help against the CE?
Omega (Borg) reputation torpedo launcher. It can launch five torpedoes in rapid succession before it has to reload. If you use High Yield it launches a plasma bolt like the Borg Unimatrixes that will cause the vaporization animation if it kills the target.
Plasma weapons apply a damage over time effect. Disruptors lower the damage resistance of the target.
The Entity doesn't have shields, subsystems, or power levels so weapon types that drain or disable those won't have their bonus effect do anything useful (Polaron, Phaser, Tetryon, for example).
...Yeah, I don't really have anything to add, just that some people clearly didn't read through the whole thread, so I'm putting these great bits of information and insight right here again.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Of course, now that we've done this, the weapon will be changed to kinetic damage, and then would be properly classified as a torpedo.
Still requesting an answer as to what Tech 'kits' will upgrade this; beams or projectiles? Or will this receive the same treatment like the torpedo consoles, where they can be upgraded by cannon or beam Tech only?
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Oh, so those weapons still do damage, they just don't do the specials. Got it. This sounds most like one of those - forget about finesse, just keep hitting it until it stops moving - kind of fights. I think I can do that.
Still it seems that some specials do affect it.
I guess that it is about timing for those.
same 3 runs so far not a single shard, this is madness...
try 2 = got no reward from killing the entity
try 3 = no entity spawning
try 4 = no entity spawning
try 5 = finally got a reward
WTF?!?
Since beginning 2014 EVERY damn event that cryptic does is bugged
Fortunately, I'm pretty sure that most of them can be brushed away with a broom. Or a shovel in the more heavily covered areas.
Oh, wait...
:: uses tricorder ::
It's cold. It's...
:: more scans ::
SNOW! My bad. Proceed with your destructive CE activities.
Any chance they can fix the insane lag in most of the PvE queues whilst they're at it?
Or the constant Crashes to Desktop?
* One CC in which the entity did not spawn at all.
* At least three instances when the entity disappeared or shattered early, leaving us without rewards.
* One or two instances when the CC spawned, but none of the Tholian or Mirror ships spawned and the event couldn't be completed.
On the bright side, at least leaving those glitched CC instances didn't give me a penalty for "abandoning" a PvE queue event. On the not-so-bright side, not only did I not receive a single Crystal Shard, I also didn't get the R&D box reward.
If it helps at all with troubleshooting, each of these incidents were in the Advanced CC. I can't speak to what happens in the normal queue.