I can now confirm all the Borg Space STF give 1204SP on Advanced for completion I cannot say anything about the ground as my fleet avoids the ground side of things. Individual mob rewards seem to be roughly on par with what I remember from yesterday.
That is doing the mission at lvl 60, trying to get some fleeties up to 60 which now appears to be a less than promising prospect.
The kind of attitude they get here on the forums, I'm surprised they don't give it right back to us more often. I say bravo.
Thanks for responding Geko. I think my problem is more with the underlying issue through all these fixes which is the philosophy of slowing down the leveling so that simply playing story missions is no longer enough to actually progress. This is in direct conflict with the entire game up until now, and I think does not suit it.
They basically gave us five levels worth of content and stretched it out to fill ten. That's why we have to stop and grind every other level and I have to say that it is a jarring and highly unsatisfying experience.
Congradulations, you got your wish. Your math is completely wrong. You win one internet!
First, before and after the patch, the SP cost per level changed every level. That is, the costs were not static from 50-55 as you mentioned. Here are the actual numbers:
Increase in SP costs:
154,800/55,500=2.79 times more
Increase is SP rewarded from Argala:
2730/944=2.89
So this missions award slightly more proportionally to the increase in SP. Each mission will vary slightly because math.
All these numbers were just double checked in data and in game and appear accurate from our end.
Now I dont know if you are considering SP from critter kills. That is certainly going to vary greatly if you kill a lot of critters versus another with few critters (and the Delta Patrols vary greatly and each time you play many of them generate a random number of waves). But remember critters also received an increase in proportion to the new requirements.
To be clear, player progression should be the same now as it was before. In fact, Starship Mastery will be faster since critter ships award a lot more SP and Starship Master requirement did not go up.
The main reason this change was made was there were odd discrepancies at each level causing some rewards (critter kill, doff assignments, and missions) to be lower at higher levels. The change fixes that. I give you my word no one is trying to pull a fast one on the community. It is entirely possible there is a bug we are unaware of. If there is, we will find it and fix it.
I hope this clears things up.
Very Best Regards,
LLAP,
-Al Captain Geko Rivera
Congratulations, your math is likely 100% accurate and you're still making an incredibly ridiculous argument!
Yes, let's use the most optimized location in the entire game to defend the Cryptic position regarding the character leveling progression of DR. What you are basically saying is, for optimal leveling, grind this patrol map (and the 2-3 others like it) ~23 times for a full level of specialization. Or, you can play the rest of the content in the game, and level at a significantly slower pace.
Are you being serious right now?
How high is the percentage of failure in Advanced queues? Folks are having a hard time leveling equipment, so they have no choice but to level their character so they can perform better in advanced queues to get the materials to get better equipment. But wait, now the progression for characters is slowed down considerably too, so not only does DR make it harder to level equipment, it is now getting much harder to level characters.
What exactly is Cryptic's progression strategy for players? Harder to level characters in a reasonable time, and harder to level gear in a reasonable time, unless the player plays these exact same 3-4 patrol maps hundreds of times and presto... problem is solved? That's not a progression strategy for actual players, that's a requirement to play the most limited content again and again and again in the game to progress in anything similar to a timely manner. Nobody can currently level doing queues, that should be obvious to your QA team, and the battlezone maps will complete several times before you progress even 1 bar in a single level after level 55.
You are basically defending the leveling curve currently in the game by telling players to play patrol missions on the map you mention (and the three like it) 23x in a row to level 1 SSP efficiently, or play the rest of the game and progress as much as 30x slower. Hmm.
Do you think, maybe, the point you have made... might not be very strong or compelling?
They think I'm gonna stop playing when I filled my Specialization tree or something?!
I think the people who control the purse strings believe you will. They maybe right too, I think someone who is very dedicated to this game is in the minority of the play base. It is in there best interest to keep you playing this game as long as possible increases the chances one would break down and start spending money.
Congratulations, your math is likely 100% accurate and you're still making an incredibly ridiculous argument!
Yes, let's use the most optimized location in the entire game to defend the Cryptic position regarding the character leveling progression of DR. What you are basically saying is, for optimal leveling, grind this patrol map (and the 2-3 others like it) ~23 times for a full level of specialization. Or, you can play the rest of the content in the game, and level at a significantly slower pace.
Are you being serious right now?
How high is the percentage of failure in Advanced queues? Folks are having a hard time leveling equipment, so they have no choice but to level their character so they can perform better in advanced queues to get the materials to get better equipment. But wait, now the progression for characters is slowed down considerably too, so not only does DR make it harder to level equipment, it is now getting much harder to level characters.
What exactly is Cryptic's progression strategy for players? Harder to level characters in a reasonable time, and harder to level gear in a reasonable time, unless the player plays these exact same 3-4 patrol maps hundreds of times and presto... problem is solved? That's not a progression strategy for actual players, that's a requirement to play the most limited content again and again and again in the game to progress in anything similar to a timely manner. Nobody can currently level doing queues, that should be obvious to your QA team, and the battlezone maps will complete several times before you progress even 1 bar in a single level after level 55.
You are basically defending the leveling curve currently in the game by telling players to play patrol missions on the map you mention (and the three like it) 23x in a row to level 1 SSP efficiently, or play the rest of the game and progress as much as 30x slower. Hmm.
Do you think, maybe, the point you have made... might not be very strong or compelling?
I am perfectly fine with playing the way I want even if it means it is 30x slower. All I see here is you want to play the way you want and that has to be the fasted way possible.
Sorry guys, I love you and your game, but this is becoming ridiculous. No communication, wrong math, snarky remarks, really unclear intentions. Instead of fixing stuff, you do some cosmetic changes which make everything worse and don't even work correctly. How was this not even tested on Tribble?
And then you ask us to provide you with numbers so you can look at them. We're not the darn QA for the game - that's your job!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Sometimes you have to do things that you hate, so you can survive to fight another day."
So after reading this thread and seeing what is going on, I am disappointed in what I have seen. I would not car if this is what rolled out at launch of DR. Here is why I am upset. There is a group of players that has had there specialization done because they grinder the hell out of mission like Argala. Now the players like me that have alas and taking there time are now getting punished. This is not fair to the players that have been taking there time.
Impressive how one can fail so hard in applying mathematics, especially in the group. Not boosting Critter-kill-xp, not boosting Doffjobs-XP, its clearly a nerf. Even if you have scaled up the finishing-rewards, the ratio isnt big enough to make it a buff or at least a stalemate. Its another xp-nerf like this. Because taking all three things in consideration, the ratio of "XP needed new/old" to "XP gainable new/old" is greater one, so you now need more xp and time then before.
Geko, I appreciate your presenting data, but I think your message might have gotten across better without the snark. It gives the appearance, whether or not true, that you are more interested in scoring points or putting someone in their place than having the kind of substantive discussion that you then follow with later. Many people do not read past the first line when they see such an attitude.
Please remember that when you are dealing with an angry customer the last thing you want to do is be sarcastic with them.
And yes, that even includes instances where you sincerely believe that the customer is wrong. :-/
I will have to prove the numbers for myself to make a full review (as you may be aware of my ongoing review series), but regardless I would strongly advise taking my advice to heart to avoid digging yourself and your company in any deeper than you are customer-relations-wise.
I think that's a perception due to the recent interactions in the community. The OP said he hoped his math was wrong. Geko confirmed his hopes were fulfilled and was indeed incorrect in maths. I personally wouldn't have gone the jovial route he did but the intent seemed fairly friendly to me overall. Given the context of the recent past, I can see how this might be taken but I don't believe, at least I hope, it was not sarcastic.
I'm level 60. Prior to the patch, I would load up my DOFF missions, then do normal queues to get my daily marks for each rep + one fleet mark package and log out. This would get me about 1 specialization point.
Tonight, I did the same cycle but my bar is only halfway to full, so you've effectively DOUBLED progression time. Why on earth would you say the opposite of what you've changed?! Either your code changes are bugged or you're lying in your post. :mad:
I'm level 60. Prior to the patch, I would load up my DOFF missions, then do normal queues to get my daily marks for each rep + one fleet mark package and log out. This would get me about 1 specialization point.
Tonight, I did the same cycle but my bar is only halfway to full, so you've effectively DOUBLED progression time. Why on earth would you say the opposite of what you've changed?! Either your code changes are bugged or you're lying in your post. :mad:
But remember critters also received an increase in proportion to the new requirements.
To be clear, player progression should be the same now as it was before.
It is not, and you are wrong. I am using a very controlled testing environment--same enemy mobs (Kazon) with same mob make up (X carriers, Y cruisers), same # of enemies, same build, same DPS, running multiple trials for sample size, using a stop watch to measure how fast the skill bar can be filled up. After today's patch it is taking just shy of TWICE AS LONG to gain XP using only critter kills (no doffing, no mission turn-ins, etc.).
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Increase in SP costs:
154,800/55,500=2.79 times more
Increase is SP rewarded from Argala:
2730/944=2.89
So this missions award slightly more proportionally to the increase in SP. Each mission will vary slightly because math.
All these numbers were just double checked in data and in game and appear accurate from our end.
[...]
And yet players feel xp from critter kills was not scaled sufficiently, same as xp from doffing.
But that is not even the insulting thing. The insulting thing is that if the player gets scaled down to 50 or below because he is playing:
Normal STFs,
Dyson Sphere,
Defera,
Nukara,
basicly ANYTHING before delta rising,
the xp is exactly the same as before.
So you are not good enough to handle advanced or elite queues? Congratulations we just made your progress three times harder. Now pray that we don't alter the deal further.
Taking a glance at the (few) numbers we can see in-game, I have revised this list to more closely reflect what it might actually be.
Assuming the UI isn't totally lying to me or any of the people I talked to for a little bit of data collection, I can confirm these numbers for all levels 50-60, as shown in game UI.
Now:
Level.............SP required
01-50...........366,000
50-51...........31,820
51-52...........51,600
52-53...........81,700
53-54...........90,300
54-55...........129,000 (total up to here: 750,420, shown @ 55 in game)
55-56...........137,600
56-57...........141,900
57-58...........154,800
58-59...........154,800
59-60...........159,100 (total up to here: 1,498,620, shown @ 60 in game)
The listed 50-51 figure is totally missing (the 12,500 one), for starters.
If you take the XP required to go from 50-60 with these (actually correct) figures, where the old ones totalled 392,000 (758,000 - 366,000), and the new ones are 1,132,620 (1498620 - 366000), the total needed to level 50-60 is 2.89 times what it was before the patch, not 2.79.
(I'm actually assuming the sum 717,000 is correct. I would actually like to know if anyone remembers what level 60 skill points required were previous to this patch, because I don't, I just summed up the chart we were just given.)
(EDIT: stowiki says 732,000. Gonna go with that for now.)
(MOAR EDIT: someone more observant than me recalled the number 758,000.)
And yet players feel xp from critter kills was not scaled sufficiently, same as xp from doffing.
Xp from doffing was NOT scaled. Period. A mission that used to reward 1200ish still reward 1200 ish. I can't remember if it's 1202 or something close, but it will vary only on an order of 10.
I haven't checked all the missions, that's true, but the few I did were still the same, or very close from what I remember.
So yeah, maybe I'm unlucky and I'm looking at the bugged missions, or they weren't scaled. And I'm talking about DR DOFF missions, so they should have been the first updated.
Xp from doffing was NOT scaled. Period. A mission that used to reward 1200ish still reward 1200 ish.
I've grinded quite a bit of xp from doffing since DR. I've payed close attention to the xp i got from assignments and let me tell you, they awarded about 70% of the advertised amount.
Now, after the patch, the amount of xp gained actually matches the amount shown in the assignment description. .
I've grinded quite a bit of xp from doffing since DR. I've payed close attention to the xp i got from assignments and let me tell you, they awarded about 70% of the advertised amount.
Now, after the patch, the amount of xp gained actually matches the amount shown in the assignment description. .
Great. Now how does that 30% correspond to the 200% increase in required xp?
Great. Now how does that 30% correspond to the 200% increase in required xp?
It doesn't, of course. But evaluating 60+ progression was never my intent in the first place (in fact, not being a min maxer, i couldn't care less).
I was merely pointing out, that there was indeed an issue with actual xp gain vs. advertised xp gain from Doff assignments.
I have not yet collected sufficient data to say aye or nay to that. The completed tab of the UI says not scaled but those values were wonky ever since the crafting upgrade.
Have you actually compared the values you get through system chat outputs yet?
a 50% nerf on XP
instead of making situation better for the players the devs put all their energy in ruining the fun and motivation to play this game
Next to that are many...MANY so called fixes and improvements that are written in the patch notes not even working... or maybe not even in the game at all.
We are constantly getting lied to. Since DR every week the same story.
More nerfing... more fake bug fixes... more fake features.... more stuff that is not working as intended.
And content that nobody wanted and nobody needed.
Club 47.... been there, done that.... and for sure never going to visit it again.
They went full TRIBBLE this time. They either are simply lying in our face or are a total failure at math. Either way, this is not acceptable. I don't have a problem with some grinding but the recent changes are simply turning the game into more and more work just to progress a bit. And that is not something i want to do in my leisure time.
Comments
That is doing the mission at lvl 60, trying to get some fleeties up to 60 which now appears to be a less than promising prospect.
Anyone else have any numbers from the queues?
All the nerfs are belong to us.
They basically gave us five levels worth of content and stretched it out to fill ten. That's why we have to stop and grind every other level and I have to say that it is a jarring and highly unsatisfying experience.
I was looking at the XP we get from the NPC's and have not added the increased XP from finishing the mission.
I apologies for this mistake.
Accepted but still the whole thing is a Nerf! A huge one.
Congratulations, your math is likely 100% accurate and you're still making an incredibly ridiculous argument!
Yes, let's use the most optimized location in the entire game to defend the Cryptic position regarding the character leveling progression of DR. What you are basically saying is, for optimal leveling, grind this patrol map (and the 2-3 others like it) ~23 times for a full level of specialization. Or, you can play the rest of the content in the game, and level at a significantly slower pace.
Are you being serious right now?
How high is the percentage of failure in Advanced queues? Folks are having a hard time leveling equipment, so they have no choice but to level their character so they can perform better in advanced queues to get the materials to get better equipment. But wait, now the progression for characters is slowed down considerably too, so not only does DR make it harder to level equipment, it is now getting much harder to level characters.
What exactly is Cryptic's progression strategy for players? Harder to level characters in a reasonable time, and harder to level gear in a reasonable time, unless the player plays these exact same 3-4 patrol maps hundreds of times and presto... problem is solved? That's not a progression strategy for actual players, that's a requirement to play the most limited content again and again and again in the game to progress in anything similar to a timely manner. Nobody can currently level doing queues, that should be obvious to your QA team, and the battlezone maps will complete several times before you progress even 1 bar in a single level after level 55.
You are basically defending the leveling curve currently in the game by telling players to play patrol missions on the map you mention (and the three like it) 23x in a row to level 1 SSP efficiently, or play the rest of the game and progress as much as 30x slower. Hmm.
Do you think, maybe, the point you have made... might not be very strong or compelling?
Rules of Acquisition at Priority One
I think the people who control the purse strings believe you will. They maybe right too, I think someone who is very dedicated to this game is in the minority of the play base. It is in there best interest to keep you playing this game as long as possible increases the chances one would break down and start spending money.
I am perfectly fine with playing the way I want even if it means it is 30x slower. All I see here is you want to play the way you want and that has to be the fasted way possible.
And then you ask us to provide you with numbers so you can look at them. We're not the darn QA for the game - that's your job!
"Sometimes you have to do things that you hate, so you can survive to fight another day."
Right back at you. You forgot the two biggest sources of XP to include in your calculations...
I think that's a perception due to the recent interactions in the community. The OP said he hoped his math was wrong. Geko confirmed his hopes were fulfilled and was indeed incorrect in maths. I personally wouldn't have gone the jovial route he did but the intent seemed fairly friendly to me overall. Given the context of the recent past, I can see how this might be taken but I don't believe, at least I hope, it was not sarcastic.
We got facts and that is always a good thing.
Tonight, I did the same cycle but my bar is only halfway to full, so you've effectively DOUBLED progression time. Why on earth would you say the opposite of what you've changed?! Either your code changes are bugged or you're lying in your post. :mad:
Confirmed doubling of progression time:
It is not, and you are wrong. I am using a very controlled testing environment--same enemy mobs (Kazon) with same mob make up (X carriers, Y cruisers), same # of enemies, same build, same DPS, running multiple trials for sample size, using a stop watch to measure how fast the skill bar can be filled up. After today's patch it is taking just shy of TWICE AS LONG to gain XP using only critter kills (no doffing, no mission turn-ins, etc.).
Joined January 2009
And yet players feel xp from critter kills was not scaled sufficiently, same as xp from doffing.
But that is not even the insulting thing. The insulting thing is that if the player gets scaled down to 50 or below because he is playing:
Normal STFs,
Dyson Sphere,
Defera,
Nukara,
basicly ANYTHING before delta rising,
the xp is exactly the same as before.
So you are not good enough to handle advanced or elite queues? Congratulations we just made your progress three times harder. Now pray that we don't alter the deal further.
Taking a glance at the (few) numbers we can see in-game, I have revised this list to more closely reflect what it might actually be.
Assuming the UI isn't totally lying to me or any of the people I talked to for a little bit of data collection, I can confirm these numbers for all levels 50-60, as shown in game UI.
Now:
Level.............SP required
01-50...........366,000
50-51...........31,820
51-52...........51,600
52-53...........81,700
53-54...........90,300
54-55...........129,000 (total up to here: 750,420, shown @ 55 in game)
55-56...........137,600
56-57...........141,900
57-58...........154,800
58-59...........154,800
59-60...........159,100 (total up to here: 1,498,620, shown @ 60 in game)
The listed 50-51 figure is totally missing (the 12,500 one), for starters.
If you take the XP required to go from 50-60 with these (actually correct) figures, where the old ones totalled 392,000 (758,000 - 366,000), and the new ones are 1,132,620 (1498620 - 366000), the total needed to level 50-60 is 2.89 times what it was before the patch, not 2.79.
(I'm actually assuming the sum 717,000 is correct. I would actually like to know if anyone remembers what level 60 skill points required were previous to this patch, because I don't, I just summed up the chart we were just given.)
(EDIT: stowiki says 732,000. Gonna go with that for now.)
(MOAR EDIT: someone more observant than me recalled the number 758,000.)
I haven't checked all the missions, that's true, but the few I did were still the same, or very close from what I remember.
So yeah, maybe I'm unlucky and I'm looking at the bugged missions, or they weren't scaled. And I'm talking about DR DOFF missions, so they should have been the first updated.
overall: we must grind more to get a lvl or spec point.
but where? queues = empty or map bugged, patrols = boring, fabular = only once, replays = nice joke, duty assigments = small rewards/time, kobali bz = only 2-3 missions are interesting here.
i say NO and log off...
Lol. I don't even...
Now, after the patch, the amount of xp gained actually matches the amount shown in the assignment description. .
Great. Now how does that 30% correspond to the 200% increase in required xp?
I was merely pointing out, that there was indeed an issue with actual xp gain vs. advertised xp gain from Doff assignments.
I have not yet collected sufficient data to say aye or nay to that. The completed tab of the UI says not scaled but those values were wonky ever since the crafting upgrade.
Have you actually compared the values you get through system chat outputs yet?
a 50% nerf on XP
instead of making situation better for the players the devs put all their energy in ruining the fun and motivation to play this game
Next to that are many...MANY so called fixes and improvements that are written in the patch notes not even working... or maybe not even in the game at all.
We are constantly getting lied to. Since DR every week the same story.
More nerfing... more fake bug fixes... more fake features.... more stuff that is not working as intended.
And content that nobody wanted and nobody needed.
Club 47.... been there, done that.... and for sure never going to visit it again.