You realize how unfair this is for people that weren't power leveling?
They're thinking you'll still be here this time next year simply because you haven't maxed out your specialization sheets yet. They're hanging their carrots on longer sticks. That's all.
STO - its conversion to a true 'Asian Grind MMO' paradigm continues. I'm sure the folks at PWI are happy with what PWE has managed with the latest round of changes.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Congradulations, you got your wish. Your math is completely wrong. You win one internet!
First, before and after the patch, the SP cost per level changed every level. That is, the costs were not static from 50-55 as you mentioned. Here are the actual numbers:
Increase in SP costs:
154,800/55,500=2.79 times more
Increase is SP rewarded from Argala:
2730/944=2.89
So this missions award slightly more proportionally to the increase in SP. Each mission will vary slightly because math.
All these numbers were just double checked in data and in game and appear accurate from our end.
Now I dont know if you are considering SP from critter kills. That is certainly going to vary greatly if you kill a lot of critters versus another with few critters (and the Delta Patrols vary greatly and each time you play many of them generate a random number of waves). But remember critters also received an increase in proportion to the new requirements.
To be clear, player progression should be the same now as it was before. In fact, Starship Mastery will be faster since critter ships award a lot more SP and Starship Master requirement did not go up.
The main reason this change was made was there were odd discrepancies at each level causing some rewards (critter kill, doff assignments, and missions) to be lower at higher levels. The change fixes that. I give you my word no one is trying to pull a fast one on the community. It is entirely possible there is a bug we are unaware of. If there is, we will find it and fix it.
I hope this clears things up.
Very Best Regards,
LLAP,
-Al Captain Geko Rivera
should episode replays also not award the 2,730 XP on completion as well? currently they reward 1,973
Based on your figures and based on this argala reward only (does not include critter kills etc etc)
Based on level 60:-
Argala reward: 2,730 = 57 runs (rounded up to nearest whole number)
Episode replay reward: 1,973 = 79 runs (rounded up to nearest whole number)
Now one of you devs previously mentioned on another thread that there is other content we can play to level up.
If this was the case then these rewards should be standardised across the board, this clearly is not the case as the above shows and really is not worth the effort to complete any of the old story content again.
If i was the one setting the figures here and i wanted to make the story content to be more appealing to the player base i would probably increase this content reward above that of sector patrols possibly double that of argala?
PVE queues should also offer more (sorry not checked what they are)
This grind would be a little more bearable for me personally as it will not be the same content over and over again in a row, at least with story content i can pick and choose which missions i can run and like and not the same patrol all the time.
I noticed somewhere back that someone made a little song about this, so i decided to have a go too for giggles
(to the tune of the chorus of 'somebody i used to know')
You didn't have to chaaaange it all,
raise the points required and nerf XP til' we get nothing
all the smoke and miiiiiirror posts,
you treat us all like morons and i feel so cold,
you didn't have to stooop so low,
let the players make the missions and they'll turn out better,
time to leave the game for now,
what happened to the Star Trek that i used to know
Real Temporal Operative: Purchased the Special Temporal Agent pack before it was even officially announced!
Someone didnt get the numbers right - the XP scaling of critters has not been adjusted to compensate. After doing a bunch of DoFF missions, CCA, Undine Inf. Advanced and 2! borg red alerts I moved 1 bar. That's absurd.
It's hard to not bring up swg and compared it to the time they took everything that was great about the game and decided to delete it.
Trying to make the game a clone of all other standard ones from the genre by removing everything that players were enjoying.
I find it hilarious.
For 2 years we keep hearing about how awesome the game is doing - you already have people's money so what is up with this?
What a waste of time, how absolutely pointless this all is.
Umm I don't know about you but me and everyone I know initially says that SWG was great then they remember that it was actually pretty bad and that they only thought it was great just like some people remember the good old days that were also TRIBBLE.
Umm I don't know about you but me and everyone I know initially says that SWG was great then they remember that it was actually pretty bad and that they only thought it was great just like some people remember the good old days that were also TRIBBLE.
Rewatched the original Power Rangers with the kids. Still the best show with dudes dressed as robots.
I am seeing absolutely no change in kill XP - frigates are still worth around 40, cruisers around 215, and battleships about 285.
DOffs I genuinely can't get a handle on at all. In all cases the awarded XP is equal to or greater than what is stated, and I'm positive it is higher than before the patch, but there is no rhyme or reason to how much of a +% I see. Some missions are giving me exactly what the reward listing says they should, others are giving me up to 70% more.
That said, I have no doubt DOffs have not been scaled up enough to bring them on par with the new level requirements. Even in cases where I just blew through a bunch of missions and set new ones as fast as possible, on post 50s I never saw a given mission award something below the low 70s. I shouldn't be seeing things less than 200 if this was working the way it should (and I have to admit most of the time I don't), but I am.
In summary:
Critters - I continue to see no increase in what they are worth at all (on normal and solo). I'm positive of this. These are the same numbers I've been seeing since DR launched.
DOffs - I see either the same or an increase. It's not totally random - generally missions worth more XP seem to be getting a bigger increase over what is being reported (and what I remember pre patch). But there is definitely a lot of variation in whatever the boost is even among missions that award similar amount. I wish I could be more specific, but I never really kept good records of what I was getting pre patch.
Mission Rewards - These are increased as promised. And so far I haven't found one that isn't reasonably close to scaled with the increased level requirements.
I am seeing absolutely no change in kill XP - frigates are still worth around 40, cruisers around 215, and battleships about 285.
DOffs I genuinely can't get a handle on at all. In all cases the awarded XP is equal to or greater than what is stated, and I'm positive it is higher than before the patch, but there is no rhyme or reason to how much of a +% I see. Some missions are giving me exactly what the reward listing says they should, others are giving me up to 70% more.
That said, I have no doubt DOffs have not been scaled up enough to bring them on par with the new level requirements. Even in cases where I just blew through a bunch of missions and set new ones as fast as possible, on post 50s I never saw a given mission award something below the low 70s. I shouldn't be seeing things less than 200 if this was working the way it should (and I have to admit most of the time I don't), but I am.
In summary:
Critters - I continue to see no increase in what they are worth at all (on normal and solo). I'm positive of this. These are the same numbers I've been seeing since DR launched.
DOffs - I see either the same or an increase. It's not totally random - generally missions worth more XP seem to be getting a bigger increase over what is being reported (and what I remember pre patch). But there is definitely a lot of variation in whatever the boost is even among missions that award similar amount. I wish I could be more specific, but I never really kept good records of what I was getting pre patch.
Mission Rewards - These are increased as promised. And so far I haven't found one that isn't reasonably close to scaled with the increased level requirements.
the minute you hit 60 and have completed all those missions, your toon's life is in chore labor mode, welcome to it.
(edit) Actually that toon's life is over and to the slave pens. been done for years and am feeling it. last 2 days i game my 20 min of play.
*Level cap increase with lower XP rewards per mission.
*Specialization Tree that can only be filled 10 times by normal leveling before you have to grind to get more open.
*R&D system that takes months to level up per school.
So this Skill Point change was supposed to fix some of it in some way. It was supposed to make more XP available, understandably at the expense of needing more XP to level. That's fine...as long as the new XP rewards were boosted at a higher ratio than the needed XP was boosted by.
You say Argala did this on base rewards. It's 2.89x more XP to the needed XP's 2.79x ratio.
However, if you're going to do this to one part of the game, all parts need at least the same 2.89x reward ratio compared to before Thursday's patch.
What I keep hearing and seeing?
1) DOFF XP hasn't scaled.
2) Enemy kill XP hasn't scaled, or if it has it's nowhere near 2.89x old values.
3) Queues aren't rewarding a ton of XP atm.
4) Episode replays aren't awarding more XP; I'm still seeing sub-3k XP numbers.
PWE....if you expect players to enjoy a game where alts can be brought up the ranks fairly easily so that players can enjoy a varied play experience, you need to make the game alt-friendly again.
We were on a roll before R&D came up. Leveling from 1 to 50 didn't take too long. Getting Crafting to max level just took more patience than anything, queues awarded decent XP amounts, you had introduced the Sponsorship tokens for Reputations to help alts run the Reps more easily.
Now? XP is low, needed XP is high, and players are seeing a grind rather than a fun time.
I'm suggesting you either roll back these numbers or acknowledge publically that the numbers in other areas of the game are messed up and need to be changed to reflect the 2.89x reward multiplier (compared to Thursday's patch).
The worst thing you can do, PR-wise? Sit back, make no acknowledgements there may be issues, and let the next patch day or two roll by without updates. Lack of word and lack of action = a perceived "we want you to grind grind grind" mentality that will run people away from what was a casual, alt-friendly MMO.
STO doesn't need to be WoW or any other MMO. It needs to be what STO had been preceding the R&D system.
DOffs - I see either the same or an increase. It's not totally random - generally missions worth more XP seem to be getting a bigger increase over what is being reported (and what I remember pre patch). But there is definitely a lot of variation in whatever the boost is even among missions that award similar amount. I wish I could be more specific, but I never really kept good records of what I was getting pre patch.
DOFF were increased after the patch. Missions that awarded 1202sp now awards 2400ish.
the devs are not playing or they would see what we see. and if they are we know where they stand, simple deduction. it's uh, kinda technical i guess, takes a bit of throw down but hey, who are we to give a recommendation after all lol ...
Congradulations, you got your wish. Your math is completely wrong. You win one internet!
First, before and after the patch, the SP cost per level changed every level. That is, the costs were not static from 50-55 as you mentioned. Here are the actual numbers:
So this missions award slightly more proportionally to the increase in SP. Each mission will vary slightly because math.
All these numbers were just double checked in data and in game and appear accurate from our end.
...
It is entirely possible there is a bug we are unaware of. If there is, we will find it and fix it.
Maybe, you should tell us the math so that we can check it ourselves. What are the exact formulas? At each level, how many skill points should each of the following activities reward?
story missions (first playthrough)
story missions (replay)
patrol missions
doff assignments
killing NPCs of various ranks
There may be other activities that I have forgotten.
EDIT: Deleted incorrect statements. I misread certain screenshots.
just for the other guys here who were observing that the numbers seemed one level off, I did the math last night and posted it on page 56 but it got drowned out pretty quick.
This is the actual XP curve as it exists in game as of about 12:30 AM PST 11/21/2014:
Now:
Level.............SP required
01-50...........366,000
50-51...........31,820
51-52...........51,600
52-53...........81,700
53-54...........90,300
54-55...........129,000 (total up to here: 750,420, shown @ 55 in game)
55-56...........137,600
56-57...........141,900
57-58...........154,800
58-59...........154,800
59-60...........159,100 (total up to here: 1,498,620, shown @ 60 in game)
So yesterday, I respectfully thanked Geko for coming in the thread and trying to clarify things, but said that with so many people complaining, I was willing to believe there was a "bug" (as we have been assured that the intention was to NOT slow down leveling.
Before Thursday's patch, I was leveling through doffing and Open missions on Kobali Prime. I'm at level 58 on my main, and want to finish the storyline on Kobali before continuing with the other DR missions. I was pretty familiar with the SP awarded (to me, with my vet bonus), so I did say I would check it out when I had a chance.
Tried it tonight.
So - before Thursday's patch, "A Decision To Make" would award 9xx SP (I'm not sure the exact amount, but I know it was 900 and something, because I was rounding open missions "up" to a thousand when leveling, and ran a few of these to level from 56 to 57).
Tonight, 1806.
Sounds like double, not triple in this case.
I chose this one because there is absolutely no combat, so "critter" skill points have nothing to do with it.
So in my mind, there's definitely a bug with the adjustments. Otherwise it's going to take WAAAYYY longer to level up.
Either that, or my benefit of the doubt is misplaced. I'm willing to admit this is a possibility as well.
Normally, I would assume it was a mistake that will soon be fixed.
The way things are going though, I honestly believe it was a way of trying to cover up yet another massive nerf.
Either it was a mistake and it will be fixed, or they flat out lied about this change. I'm really hoping it's not the latter because it definitely takes much longer to advance now than it did before the patch.
In many instances, the XP rewarded did not increase proportionally with the XP needed. It was a nothing for some things and a massive nerf to others.
Noted. I played a level 60 last night and didn't watch progression very closely. Like many others, I have alts and alts have been rather painful in time investment with limited time to play them so I have been mostly playing one at a time until I at least have T2 Specialization completed (20 points I think? So level 60+10. I'm not in the game so I can't see how many I put into her.) If it takes longer, I really don't know what to do about my alts. They feel like dead weight in my backpack that's slowing me down.
Comments
You realize how unfair this is for people that weren't power leveling?
ADM Board, Whitehall, London - United Federation of Planets
http://www.srs-fleet.net/
They're thinking you'll still be here this time next year simply because you haven't maxed out your specialization sheets yet. They're hanging their carrots on longer sticks. That's all.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
should episode replays also not award the 2,730 XP on completion as well? currently they reward 1,973
Based on your figures and based on this argala reward only (does not include critter kills etc etc)
Based on level 60:-
Argala reward: 2,730 = 57 runs (rounded up to nearest whole number)
Episode replay reward: 1,973 = 79 runs (rounded up to nearest whole number)
Now one of you devs previously mentioned on another thread that there is other content we can play to level up.
If this was the case then these rewards should be standardised across the board, this clearly is not the case as the above shows and really is not worth the effort to complete any of the old story content again.
If i was the one setting the figures here and i wanted to make the story content to be more appealing to the player base i would probably increase this content reward above that of sector patrols possibly double that of argala?
PVE queues should also offer more (sorry not checked what they are)
This grind would be a little more bearable for me personally as it will not be the same content over and over again in a row, at least with story content i can pick and choose which missions i can run and like and not the same patrol all the time.
(to the tune of the chorus of 'somebody i used to know')
You didn't have to chaaaange it all,
raise the points required and nerf XP til' we get nothing
all the smoke and miiiiiirror posts,
you treat us all like morons and i feel so cold,
you didn't have to stooop so low,
let the players make the missions and they'll turn out better,
time to leave the game for now,
what happened to the Star Trek that i used to know
Trying to make the game a clone of all other standard ones from the genre by removing everything that players were enjoying.
I find it hilarious.
For 2 years we keep hearing about how awesome the game is doing - you already have people's money so what is up with this?
What a waste of time, how absolutely pointless this all is.
Umm I don't know about you but me and everyone I know initially says that SWG was great then they remember that it was actually pretty bad and that they only thought it was great just like some people remember the good old days that were also TRIBBLE.
Rewatched the original Power Rangers with the kids. Still the best show with dudes dressed as robots.
And john smedley already owned up to ruining out of "stupidity" in his own words you can google that reddit convo
Dude ... They aren't gonna fix it because it's working as intended. (sadly)
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
DOffs I genuinely can't get a handle on at all. In all cases the awarded XP is equal to or greater than what is stated, and I'm positive it is higher than before the patch, but there is no rhyme or reason to how much of a +% I see. Some missions are giving me exactly what the reward listing says they should, others are giving me up to 70% more.
That said, I have no doubt DOffs have not been scaled up enough to bring them on par with the new level requirements. Even in cases where I just blew through a bunch of missions and set new ones as fast as possible, on post 50s I never saw a given mission award something below the low 70s. I shouldn't be seeing things less than 200 if this was working the way it should (and I have to admit most of the time I don't), but I am.
In summary:
Critters - I continue to see no increase in what they are worth at all (on normal and solo). I'm positive of this. These are the same numbers I've been seeing since DR launched.
DOffs - I see either the same or an increase. It's not totally random - generally missions worth more XP seem to be getting a bigger increase over what is being reported (and what I remember pre patch). But there is definitely a lot of variation in whatever the boost is even among missions that award similar amount. I wish I could be more specific, but I never really kept good records of what I was getting pre patch.
Mission Rewards - These are increased as promised. And so far I haven't found one that isn't reasonably close to scaled with the increased level requirements.
the minute you hit 60 and have completed all those missions, your toon's life is in chore labor mode, welcome to it.
(edit) Actually that toon's life is over and to the slave pens. been done for years and am feeling it. last 2 days i game my 20 min of play.
*Level cap increase with lower XP rewards per mission.
*Specialization Tree that can only be filled 10 times by normal leveling before you have to grind to get more open.
*R&D system that takes months to level up per school.
So this Skill Point change was supposed to fix some of it in some way. It was supposed to make more XP available, understandably at the expense of needing more XP to level. That's fine...as long as the new XP rewards were boosted at a higher ratio than the needed XP was boosted by.
You say Argala did this on base rewards. It's 2.89x more XP to the needed XP's 2.79x ratio.
However, if you're going to do this to one part of the game, all parts need at least the same 2.89x reward ratio compared to before Thursday's patch.
What I keep hearing and seeing?
1) DOFF XP hasn't scaled.
2) Enemy kill XP hasn't scaled, or if it has it's nowhere near 2.89x old values.
3) Queues aren't rewarding a ton of XP atm.
4) Episode replays aren't awarding more XP; I'm still seeing sub-3k XP numbers.
PWE....if you expect players to enjoy a game where alts can be brought up the ranks fairly easily so that players can enjoy a varied play experience, you need to make the game alt-friendly again.
We were on a roll before R&D came up. Leveling from 1 to 50 didn't take too long. Getting Crafting to max level just took more patience than anything, queues awarded decent XP amounts, you had introduced the Sponsorship tokens for Reputations to help alts run the Reps more easily.
Now? XP is low, needed XP is high, and players are seeing a grind rather than a fun time.
I'm suggesting you either roll back these numbers or acknowledge publically that the numbers in other areas of the game are messed up and need to be changed to reflect the 2.89x reward multiplier (compared to Thursday's patch).
The worst thing you can do, PR-wise? Sit back, make no acknowledgements there may be issues, and let the next patch day or two roll by without updates. Lack of word and lack of action = a perceived "we want you to grind grind grind" mentality that will run people away from what was a casual, alt-friendly MMO.
STO doesn't need to be WoW or any other MMO. It needs to be what STO had been preceding the R&D system.
Yep. Unfortunately, not the 3600ish they should be according to the OP. Doffing was ultimately nerfed.
I'm fairly certain that before the patch, it took more than 1000 skill points to level from 51 to 52. Are you sure you didn't mean
Maybe, you should tell us the math so that we can check it ourselves. What are the exact formulas? At each level, how many skill points should each of the following activities reward?
story missions (first playthrough)
story missions (replay)
patrol missions
doff assignments
killing NPCs of various ranks
There may be other activities that I have forgotten.
EDIT: Deleted incorrect statements. I misread certain screenshots.
This is the actual XP curve as it exists in game as of about 12:30 AM PST 11/21/2014:
Now:
Level.............SP required
01-50...........366,000
50-51...........31,820
51-52...........51,600
52-53...........81,700
53-54...........90,300
54-55...........129,000 (total up to here: 750,420, shown @ 55 in game)
55-56...........137,600
56-57...........141,900
57-58...........154,800
58-59...........154,800
59-60...........159,100 (total up to here: 1,498,620, shown @ 60 in game)
"Interesting, isn't it" *a nod 7 degrees to the right and smile for 4 seconds making eye contact*
lol
Before Thursday's patch, I was leveling through doffing and Open missions on Kobali Prime. I'm at level 58 on my main, and want to finish the storyline on Kobali before continuing with the other DR missions. I was pretty familiar with the SP awarded (to me, with my vet bonus), so I did say I would check it out when I had a chance.
Tried it tonight.
So - before Thursday's patch, "A Decision To Make" would award 9xx SP (I'm not sure the exact amount, but I know it was 900 and something, because I was rounding open missions "up" to a thousand when leveling, and ran a few of these to level from 56 to 57).
Tonight, 1806.
Sounds like double, not triple in this case.
I chose this one because there is absolutely no combat, so "critter" skill points have nothing to do with it.
So in my mind, there's definitely a bug with the adjustments. Otherwise it's going to take WAAAYYY longer to level up.
Either that, or my benefit of the doubt is misplaced. I'm willing to admit this is a possibility as well.
It sounds like a nothing to me.
The way things are going though, I honestly believe it was a way of trying to cover up yet another massive nerf.
Either it was a mistake and it will be fixed, or they flat out lied about this change. I'm really hoping it's not the latter because it definitely takes much longer to advance now than it did before the patch.
http://youtu.be/1W0_DspT_Xw
@Tonyjohnminter
Mosquito Squadron & SVKE
In many instances, the XP rewarded did not increase proportionally with the XP needed. It was a nothing for some things and a massive nerf to others.
Haha.. That was pretty funny.
Then I realized how true it really was.. and I was sad. :mad:
Noted. I played a level 60 last night and didn't watch progression very closely. Like many others, I have alts and alts have been rather painful in time investment with limited time to play them so I have been mostly playing one at a time until I at least have T2 Specialization completed (20 points I think? So level 60+10. I'm not in the game so I can't see how many I put into her.) If it takes longer, I really don't know what to do about my alts. They feel like dead weight in my backpack that's slowing me down.