cryptic, you claimed that the num,bert of missions needed to be done to level up wouldn't change, considering that the majority of skill points are received through critter kills you have deceived us. It is fine that you'cve scaled up the final reward payout, however you have to do the same with the critter kills if you want to keep it scaled properly, the game does not work this way and needs to be fixed, listen to your players, since it's clear that none of you play the game!
I've grinded quite a bit of xp from doffing since DR. I've payed close attention to the xp i got from assignments and let me tell you, they awarded about 70% of the advertised amount.
Now, after the patch, the amount of xp gained actually matches the amount shown in the assignment description. .
From your math, we got +30% xp from doff-jobs, problem is we need +300% xp now for 1 specilization point !!
Your numbers stated in your post are terrible wrong compared to what the game shows ingame. It looks like your offset by 1 lvl. Either ingame or in your posting.
Congradulations, you got your wish. Your math is completely wrong. You win one internet!
First, before and after the patch, the SP cost per level changed every level. That is, the costs were not static from 50-55 as you mentioned. Here are the actual numbers:
Increase in SP costs:
154,800/55,500=2.79 times more
Increase is SP rewarded from Argala:
2730/944=2.89
So this missions award slightly more proportionally to the increase in SP. Each mission will vary slightly because math.
I hope this clears things up.
Very Best Regards,
LLAP,
-Al Captain Geko Rivera
Your numbers are so wrong I dont even know where to start^^
I have, for example, a liberated borg fed tactical, currently lvl 52 with about 63% done.
The tooltip states: 30215 Skillpoints required for next lvl. 249514 are required for next rank "Admiral".
That implies that the total amout of Skillpoints for lvl 52 -> 53 is about 81.666 SP which is close to the
50-54...........81,700
81700 SP required for lvl 53 - 54 (although you wrote 50-54 again).
From your post:
50-53...........51,600
So even if what you meant was *52* -> 53... my 63% percent to lvl 53 should result in 19.092 Skillpoints missing to next lvl.
From your post:
50-54...........81,700
50-55...........90,300
Added this gives 172k SP from 53 0% to 54 100%, and if I add the 30215 required to lvl 53 for me right now, that makes 202.215 Skillpoints required fpr "Admiral", not the 249.514 SP the tooltip states.
So either your tooltip is horribly wrong or the formuls behind it or the numbers you presented here.
I then proceeded to do an argala normal. Doing that reduced the amount of skillpoints required for the 53 lvl to 24070 SP, thus doing one argala normal gave me 30215-24070 = 6145 Skillpoints. My skillbar advanced to something like 71%, meaning I had an increase in about 8%.
Since i had to visually "read" the percentage they will only be accurate within 1% I'd say. Still, when I use the 24070 at 29% remaining or the 6145 with 8% I always get back to a total amount of something over 80k SP for lvl 52 -> 53.
Besides maybe other bugs like forgetting to increase NPC rewards or whatever else may have gone wrong I come to the following conclusion:
Your numbers stated in your post are terrible wrong compared to what the game shows ingame. It looks like your offset by 1 lvl. Either ingame or in your posting.
He meant the end reward for completing the mission, not the xp you get for killing things during the mission.
This!
They want us playing missions, not sitting in one mission that has the best mob/sp ratio.
What is harder to swallow, is the doffing side of things. If they don't want us leveling via doffing, just say so, don't ignore that doffing didn't scale....
I read the OP and was confused, but happy, but confused, so I played the game and was shocked, and then angry, and I read the thread and was furious and then disgusted, and then I was sad, and then it was now, and then I don't know what happened.
Thank you nakedsnake. I was just trying to be playful.
My sincere appologies if this came off snarky.
Some Advice from a old gamer who has been in internet games from the beginning...yes I am old
When something as important to your player base as this patch is .......confusion will be out of control
You should do damage control before you take the hit not after
Post your ( Intentions ) and those numbers as your opening post in the forums ( First )
That will inform your community leaders so we can report your ( Intentions ) To our Fleets and or friends, members of our respective groups
Just like playing the Game , Its better to Buff up before a hit rather than trying to buff up after your shields are smashed and 1/2 of your hull gone
cryptic takes so much unnessary critism because you keep your potentional allies,,your veteran players in the dark and do not communicate your ( Intentions ) to us until your in deep trouble ...like now
just saying................
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I think the people who control the purse strings believe you will. They maybe right too, I think someone who is very dedicated to this game is in the minority of the play base. It is in there best interest to keep you playing this game as long as possible increases the chances one would break down and start spending money.
Well, consider this: I was playing the game *before* I had a Specialization tree... and was STILL playing too.
Funny thing is, the casual player doesn't really spend all that much to begin with. It's us whales (or 'whalettes', in my case) that keep pumping in the money. And the die-hard players like me don't need constant stomping on to keep playing. In fact, all the hostile nerfing does is p*ss me off. So, eventually they may lose me, rather than keep me.
What is harder to swallow, is the doffing side of things. If they don't want us leveling via doffing, just say so, don't ignore that doffing didn't scale....
Which means I end up with having to play either Argala till I end up mad or to face STOs broken and not rewarding pve endgame contend to progress?!
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
It is entirely possible there is a bug we are unaware of.
It's probably been pointed out by folks a lot smarter than me, but I'm kind of bored and sitting here looking at it - so I wanted to add the following, redundant as it may be.
It's a wee bit difficult to be precise since we're not given precise numbers...we have ten block per level, so each block is 10%, eh?
Toon #2 (53): 50401 SP remaining @ ~43% to L54
Toon #3 (53): 57776 SP remaining @ ~36% to L54
Toon #4 (53): 69672 SP remaining @ ~22% to L54
Toon #5 (53): 83018 SP remaining @ ~8% to L54
Toon #6 (52): 4736 SP remaining @ ~94% to L53
Toon #7 (52): 5062 SP remaining @ ~93% to L53
Toon #8 (53): 87309 SP remaining @ ~4% to L54
Toon #9 (52): 38040 SP remaining @ ~53% to L53
Toon #10 (52): 56975 SP remaining @ ~30% to L53
Toon #11 (51): 11300 SP remaining @ ~78% to L52
Now obviously again, those are rough percentages. However, because you provided the numbers you did - it's actually pretty easy to go back and actually calculate the percentages; but there's little need to do so because of the issue.
The amount you have listed for 54-55, is actually the amount for 53-54. Likewise, 53-54 is actually 52-53 and 52-53 is actually 51-52.
Each of the numbers in your list is off by a level apparently. I'm unable to test outside of the range that I listed above, but with those three levels each being off by one - it's not hard to hypothesize that the others are off by one level as well.
Toon #1 (60): 126024 SP remaining @ ~20.5% to next Spec Point
Giving us ~158k per Spec Point once we've reached level 60.
Okay then, with that having been said there's the matter of the numbers you have for completing a Normal Argala. 2730 is actually at a 105% reward scale, since Argala is only rewarding 2600 on Normal...on Advanced...on Elite. Yes, it's the same 2600 whether you do it on Normal, Advanced, or Elite. I can't remember what the pre-patch amount was - not quite sure I jotted that down for any of my testing.
But anyway, so what we were seeing with Argala was the Patrol reward being ~20% or less of the SP gained while on Normal. Now, that reward is ~33% of the SP gained on Normal. It's still ~20% or less on Elite.
So with some very rough math and some rough rounding...
But the requirement is ~287% of what it was before.
So where somebody might have done 10-11 Argala runs for a Spec Point previously, they'd now be looking at ~20 of them.
It's basically doubled the time it takes to earn a Spec Point.
Now keep in mind, that's if they're running an Argala...and one of the reasons so many people were running an Argala prior to the patch is because of just how bad all the other Patrols were for SP. They might be nifty for story, they might be fun to play, but they're outright TRIBBLE for somebody trying to grind out Spec Points. So with this change, all those Patrols are just that much worse. And yeah, that might look like an invitation to nerf Argala...but I'd just like to say shame on you if you were to go that route rather than looking at improving the other Patrols. This isn't some exploit like what folks were doing in Tau Dewa where the rewards were blatantly off and there was obviously an issue there which folks were exploiting. This is simply a case of having a Patrol where you actually can get in the most damage, spend less time chit-chatting and traveling, are not riddled with disables, and as long as you don't get Hirogen - aren't saturated with ships that might be just as tough but because of their class give garbage SP. It's a tedious as Hell Patrol to run over and over, but there's quite simply no other Patrol that's anywhere close...so it would be great if others could be brought up to snuff to give folks some variety in their play.
So maybe it's not a bug - maybe it was just an issue with the list...and maybe the critters were being discounted too much (or maybe there was some belief that the critters were giving more XP than they are)...
...but no, things haven't been kept nearly the same - it's basically a case of having doubled the requirement.
Now, lol - I don't want to win an internet, c'mon - it would be like fruitcake, I'd just end up regifting it to somebody else - but my math could be off. I don't keep detailed spreadsheets on this kind of thing, but I'll check with some folks that I know do to see if what I've got here is matching up with what they're seeing.
I was curious about how this change would affect progression, so before the patch hit I ran some Argala patrols and ran some numbers.
Each run took around 4 minutes on normal and granted 4,500 spec points. With a variance of 500 or so each way. That's mission xp, critter kills, the lot. Given that we needed 55k to level that would be running the mission 13 times on average. Let's round it up and call it an hour per level.
Post patch, same time around 4 minutes per visit. Total awarded spec points around 8k, +/- about 500, depending on critter type and spawned pets etc. Xp required is now around 155k? I don't know exact numbers, I didn't check for precision. So, that's around 20 visits to Argala to level, giving us a rough and ready time of 80 minutes, let's round it up a bit and call it an hour and a half.
I know it's a limited sample, probably not statistically significant, but if our perception of leveling speed was categorically stated not to change due to this latest alteration, well ....
Conclusion - walks like a nerf, looks like a nerf, quacks like a nerf? It's a nerf and I'm so done with nerf-herding.
Congratulations, Geko, your math was completely wrong!
Nah, his math wasn't wrong. He's just purposely ignoring the numbers that matter. If I had a tinfoil hat within reach, I'd slip it on long enough point out that they've gone to great lengths to nerf what they perceive as "easy" ways to level up. There was no reason to change post-60 leveling. None. Players were already used to the fact that episodes appeared to pay out less than before. This was an effort to nerf patrol runs where it paid out the most - critter kills. Despite what Geko says, I feel like they did in fact try to pull a fast one on us. I've been getting that vibe a lot lately. And until they bring the critter kills inline so that Argala nets the ~12,900xp it should, I'm going to continue to feel that way. Thank goodness I don't have a tinfoil hat nearby.
This was an effort to nerf patrol runs where it paid out the most - critter kills. Despite what Geko says, I feel like they did in fact try to pull a fast one on us. I've been getting that vibe a lot lately. And until they bring the critter kills inline so that Argala nets the ~12,900xp it should, I'm going to continue to feel that way. Thank goodness I don't have a tinfoil hat nearby.
Fortunately, mine is still on. (See my avatar)
Seriously, considering they send in a new Dev, just to do a lengthy, yet obvious obfuscation number on us, to hide the nerf, clearly indicates this nerf was very intentional.
I find it hard to believe that's you in the avatar
Indeed, yesterday was what politicians call "A good day to bury bad news". We have a great new ship, an amazing new interior, a fantastic new club, so whilst everyone is dancing or playing with their new toys they slip in a 50% XP nerf and hope nobody would notice. Hah, just how stupid do they think we are?
Very, and those who are buying that new ship and interior are just reinforcing the belief we are stupid.
PROUD TO PLAY THIS GAME MINUS TO GIVING ANY INCOME TO CRYPTIC
I find it hard to believe that's you in the avatar
LOL. No, silly, that's Taylor Swift. :P And she's not really wearing a tinfoil hat either, btw; but work with me here, k?
Indeed, yesterday was what politicians call "A good day to bury bad news". We have a great new ship, an amazing new interior, a fantastic new club, so whilst everyone is dancing or playing with their new toys they slip in a 50% XP nerf and hope nobody would notice. Hah, just how stupid do they think we are?
As I often say, Trekkies are nerds (in the most positive sense of the word). There will always be someone capable of, and doing the math, and finding out. ALWAYS. Especially when they go out of their way to hide the fact.
I had the Zen already, I was very excited to get it, it wasn't until after I bought the ship that I found out. Had I not already had the Zen I would have certainly not bought any and my Zen purchases are over until this is sorted out or until I've really had enough.
Fair does, but many are buying intel ships and new gear, the only way we the players can get those morons at Cryptic to listen, is when their C-store purchases, slump.
I am quite sure, that such an occurrence would see a rapid change in Cryptics policy.
PROUD TO PLAY THIS GAME MINUS TO GIVING ANY INCOME TO CRYPTIC
I made a post yesterday announcing that I was going inactive. I have since slept on it, and decided to check the forums and see what was going on. Capt. Gecko, I applaud you for getting on here with us and posting information for us, even if I may not totally agree with the tone of your post. Having slept on it, and coming back with a clearer calmer head, I am more than likely going to continue playing, simply because I like most of the ships, and more importantly, the community of friends I have in the fleet I belong to.
Do I care for the Delta content? I have not been impressed. The first few missions in the story were okay, until I got to the point where I was asked to be an errand person for Neelix, and collect spices for a stew. To compare to another popular MMO, Wow, has quests like that. They are typically reserved for lower level players. In my personal opinion, quests like that have no place when you are also trying to sell us high end combat oriented ships and gear. In my personal opinion the delta content, i.e. upgrading equipment, seems to favor the model of grind for dilithium, to try to improve your gear, to continue to be competitive, but you then turn around and reduce dilithium rewards. I saw in recent patch notes that queues are receiving increased dilithium rewards, which is a positive step in my opinion, but those queues are largely empty. I have logged on several times, got in line for 3 queue's, and started running story missions because they simply do not fill fast enough. Though all of that pales, to me, in comparison to the fact that if im not running DQ content, I literally can not lvl a character that is past 50. My 2 favorite places to go were the Voth ground battlezone and the undine space battlezone. I still go to the 2 locations to have fun, but I always have to keep in mind that I can not progress a character there anymore. Which hurts me personally having invested in the full Dyson ground combat set, full dyson space set (yes weapons, consoles, and the engine, shield, and deflector set) and full undine space set. When I use the equipment that I spent so much time effort and energy to acquire, anywhere except the factions specific battleground, it feels to me as if the set isn't as powerful as other equipment is.
In short, and I apologize for such a long post, I will be continuing to play, for free, because of the friends I have made, and the ships and equipment that I already have. I will not, for one second, even think about funding the decisions you seem to continue to make, by buying anything with real world money, nor will I encourage others to spend real money buying zen that they would use to buy my dilithium. I will also simply have to remind myself that it is no longer about trying to get even a single character to lvl 60, that its about spending time with my friends.
Geko, I appreciate your presenting data, but I think your message might have gotten across better without the snark. It gives the appearance, whether or not true, that you are more interested in scoring points or putting someone in their place than having the kind of substantive discussion that you then follow with later. Many people do not read past the first line when they see such an attitude.
Please remember that when you are dealing with an angry customer the last thing you want to do is be sarcastic with them.
And yes, that even includes instances where you sincerely believe that the customer is wrong. :-/
I will have to prove the numbers for myself to make a full review (as you may be aware of my ongoing review series), but regardless I would strongly advise taking my advice to heart to avoid digging yourself and your company in any deeper than you are customer-relations-wise.
Well he did score points, literally by bringing up better numbers and calling out bad math. No one with bad math is immune to a little "you got the math wrong" ribbing. It wasn't snarky or petulant.
Fair does, but many are buying intel ships and new gear, the only way we the players can get those morons at Cryptic to listen, is when their C-store purchases, slump.
I am quite sure, that such an occurrence would see a rapid change in Cryptics policy.
Agreed. I got fed up, logged out, and deleted the game. Upon doing so, Arc gives you the option to comment on why. There wasn't much room, but I believe I got my point accross. I'm sick and tired of them throwing one hurdle after the other at their players while so many other things go unfixed. It seems to be their primary focus at the moment. Even more insulting is that they gift-wrap these hurdles with new shiny things, hoping we don't notice. Well, I've noticed it in nearly every update since DR. I'm done with that sort of nonsense. I spend way too much money on this game to constantly have the rug ripped from under my feet. I'm keeping up with developments here on the forums, to see how this plays out. If they don't fix this, or at least acknowledge it, I won't be reinstalling.
Well he did score points, literally by bringing up better numbers and calling out bad math. No one with bad math is immune to a little "you got the math wrong" ribbing. It wasn't snarky or petulant.
wrong. he simply ignored the important numbers: exp for enemy kills and doffing. These have been atomicnerfed on top of an already very slow pace.
Note also that next week we will get a x2 buff on Delta patrol missions. This will perfectly offset the x2 nerf.
Meaning we are meant to play those instead of stf which pay materials. i.e. buy more packs.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Agreed. I got fed up, logged out, and deleted the game. Upon doing so, Arc gives you the option to comment on why. There wasn't much room, but I believe I got my point accross. I'm sick and tired of them throwing one hurdle after the other at their players while so many other things go unfixed. It seems to be their primary focus at the moment. Even more insulting is that they gift-wrap these hurdles with new shiny things, hoping we don't notice. Well, I've noticed it in nearly every update since DR. I'm done with that sort of nonsense. I spend way too much money on this game to constantly have the rug ripped from under my feet. I'm keeping up with developments here on the forums, to see how this plays out. If they don't fix this, or at least acknowledge it, I won't be reinstalling.
I am the same, sat here watching forums I care little if I get banned for saying that Gecko is a stuck up ignorant little ****ing ****, but he has a major part in ****ing up a great MMO.
I'm currently buying a few games on Steam, my intention this pay day was to buy the Intel pack.
Nice job Gecko you colossal moron.
PROUD TO PLAY THIS GAME MINUS TO GIVING ANY INCOME TO CRYPTIC
Has anyone figured out the hours required to pull this off now?
Firstly how much was it to start to rise up a level and now what is it to level under these circumstances. How many hours a day are they demanding we play for leveling? How many days before completing the process now as opposed to before.
Secondly, it's almost contradictory in nature for them to alienate the people who have to work for a living, who are most likely to plunk down coin for the game to not be able to level up as fast as those who do not. What is the advantage from a game and a pofitable standpoint of making the game more difficult for people? How is this to encourage people to play instead of disheartening them?
Third, is this an attempt to suicide the game? Rather than unceremoniously unload it, to simply run it into the ground?
Fourth point. How many people are still playing? I've been trying to hunt the accolade for starbase incursion and getting people to play it now, is like waiting for an eclipse. It happens but rarely. I worry when I can't understand the rationale behind these decisions that seem to have nothing to gain in game play and merely lose players.
Fifth, why were the doff missions not scaled accordingly? Is this an admission of the staff that doff missions should not have happened? Are they moving towards removing them and the requirement for doffs in the base constructions? Wild speculation I know, but my question stands, if it's not scaled, what is the actual reason?
STO is the ONLY MMO I've played for more than a month simply because of how rewarding it was, how NON-grindy it was, and how casual and alt-friendly it was, among other things. I wasn't even a Star Trek fan until after I started playing. Now, we get less rewards, which are stretched far too thin with new costs. You have to grind you butt off to get anywhere post 50. Both of these issues make maintaining alts nigh impossible if you have more than a couple. The time investment required to accomplish anything has increased exponentially. That, plush the new difficulty of certain things, makes casual progression seem futile. STO is NOT the game I fell in love with anymore. But I've invested such a ridiculous amount of money into it that I couldn't bear the thought of quitting. So, I stuck around, put up with the BS, and adapted. I can't adapt to this. I'm thinking I should just cut my losses this time.
Frankly, the DR content is not stellar and honestly after the 150,000 experience needed for one captain skill point. The two remaining missions don't even come close to touching that.
Needless to say, no point to play the DR content. I am just logging in to continue the 20 hour R&D thing... I think others will see that and fund other games. I already did.
Comments
Free Tibet!
From your math, we got +30% xp from doff-jobs, problem is we need +300% xp now for 1 specilization point !!
Your numbers stated in your post are terrible wrong compared to what the game shows ingame. It looks like your offset by 1 lvl. Either ingame or in your posting.
Your numbers are so wrong I dont even know where to start^^
I have, for example, a liberated borg fed tactical, currently lvl 52 with about 63% done.
The tooltip states: 30215 Skillpoints required for next lvl. 249514 are required for next rank "Admiral".
That implies that the total amout of Skillpoints for lvl 52 -> 53 is about 81.666 SP which is close to the
81700 SP required for lvl 53 - 54 (although you wrote 50-54 again).
From your post: So even if what you meant was *52* -> 53... my 63% percent to lvl 53 should result in 19.092 Skillpoints missing to next lvl.
From your post: Added this gives 172k SP from 53 0% to 54 100%, and if I add the 30215 required to lvl 53 for me right now, that makes 202.215 Skillpoints required fpr "Admiral", not the 249.514 SP the tooltip states.
So either your tooltip is horribly wrong or the formuls behind it or the numbers you presented here.
I then proceeded to do an argala normal. Doing that reduced the amount of skillpoints required for the 53 lvl to 24070 SP, thus doing one argala normal gave me 30215-24070 = 6145 Skillpoints. My skillbar advanced to something like 71%, meaning I had an increase in about 8%.
Since i had to visually "read" the percentage they will only be accurate within 1% I'd say. Still, when I use the 24070 at 29% remaining or the 6145 with 8% I always get back to a total amount of something over 80k SP for lvl 52 -> 53.
Besides maybe other bugs like forgetting to increase NPC rewards or whatever else may have gone wrong I come to the following conclusion:
Your numbers stated in your post are terrible wrong compared to what the game shows ingame. It looks like your offset by 1 lvl. Either ingame or in your posting.
This!
They want us playing missions, not sitting in one mission that has the best mob/sp ratio.
What is harder to swallow, is the doffing side of things. If they don't want us leveling via doffing, just say so, don't ignore that doffing didn't scale....
Some Advice from a old gamer who has been in internet games from the beginning...yes I am old
When something as important to your player base as this patch is .......confusion will be out of control
You should do damage control before you take the hit not after
Post your ( Intentions ) and those numbers as your opening post in the forums ( First )
That will inform your community leaders so we can report your ( Intentions ) To our Fleets and or friends, members of our respective groups
Just like playing the Game , Its better to Buff up before a hit rather than trying to buff up after your shields are smashed and 1/2 of your hull gone
cryptic takes so much unnessary critism because you keep your potentional allies,,your veteran players in the dark and do not communicate your ( Intentions ) to us until your in deep trouble ...like now
just saying................
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Well, consider this: I was playing the game *before* I had a Specialization tree... and was STILL playing too.
Funny thing is, the casual player doesn't really spend all that much to begin with. It's us whales (or 'whalettes', in my case) that keep pumping in the money. And the die-hard players like me don't need constant stomping on to keep playing. In fact, all the hostile nerfing does is p*ss me off. So, eventually they may lose me, rather than keep me.
Tl;dr: Don't nerf the hand that feeds you.
Which means I end up with having to play either Argala till I end up mad or to face STOs broken and not rewarding pve endgame contend to progress?!
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
It's probably been pointed out by folks a lot smarter than me, but I'm kind of bored and sitting here looking at it - so I wanted to add the following, redundant as it may be.
It's a wee bit difficult to be precise since we're not given precise numbers...we have ten block per level, so each block is 10%, eh?
Toon #2 (53): 50401 SP remaining @ ~43% to L54
Toon #3 (53): 57776 SP remaining @ ~36% to L54
Toon #4 (53): 69672 SP remaining @ ~22% to L54
Toon #5 (53): 83018 SP remaining @ ~8% to L54
Toon #6 (52): 4736 SP remaining @ ~94% to L53
Toon #7 (52): 5062 SP remaining @ ~93% to L53
Toon #8 (53): 87309 SP remaining @ ~4% to L54
Toon #9 (52): 38040 SP remaining @ ~53% to L53
Toon #10 (52): 56975 SP remaining @ ~30% to L53
Toon #11 (51): 11300 SP remaining @ ~78% to L52
Now obviously again, those are rough percentages. However, because you provided the numbers you did - it's actually pretty easy to go back and actually calculate the percentages; but there's little need to do so because of the issue.
The amount you have listed for 54-55, is actually the amount for 53-54. Likewise, 53-54 is actually 52-53 and 52-53 is actually 51-52.
Each of the numbers in your list is off by a level apparently. I'm unable to test outside of the range that I listed above, but with those three levels each being off by one - it's not hard to hypothesize that the others are off by one level as well.
Toon #1 (60): 126024 SP remaining @ ~20.5% to next Spec Point
Giving us ~158k per Spec Point once we've reached level 60.
Okay then, with that having been said there's the matter of the numbers you have for completing a Normal Argala. 2730 is actually at a 105% reward scale, since Argala is only rewarding 2600 on Normal...on Advanced...on Elite. Yes, it's the same 2600 whether you do it on Normal, Advanced, or Elite. I can't remember what the pre-patch amount was - not quite sure I jotted that down for any of my testing.
But anyway, so what we were seeing with Argala was the Patrol reward being ~20% or less of the SP gained while on Normal. Now, that reward is ~33% of the SP gained on Normal. It's still ~20% or less on Elite.
So with some very rough math and some rough rounding...
Before: 944 + (4 * 944) = ~4700
After: 2600 + (2 * 2600) = ~7800
~166% of what we were getting before.
But the requirement is ~287% of what it was before.
So where somebody might have done 10-11 Argala runs for a Spec Point previously, they'd now be looking at ~20 of them.
It's basically doubled the time it takes to earn a Spec Point.
Now keep in mind, that's if they're running an Argala...and one of the reasons so many people were running an Argala prior to the patch is because of just how bad all the other Patrols were for SP. They might be nifty for story, they might be fun to play, but they're outright TRIBBLE for somebody trying to grind out Spec Points. So with this change, all those Patrols are just that much worse. And yeah, that might look like an invitation to nerf Argala...but I'd just like to say shame on you if you were to go that route rather than looking at improving the other Patrols. This isn't some exploit like what folks were doing in Tau Dewa where the rewards were blatantly off and there was obviously an issue there which folks were exploiting. This is simply a case of having a Patrol where you actually can get in the most damage, spend less time chit-chatting and traveling, are not riddled with disables, and as long as you don't get Hirogen - aren't saturated with ships that might be just as tough but because of their class give garbage SP. It's a tedious as Hell Patrol to run over and over, but there's quite simply no other Patrol that's anywhere close...so it would be great if others could be brought up to snuff to give folks some variety in their play.
So maybe it's not a bug - maybe it was just an issue with the list...and maybe the critters were being discounted too much (or maybe there was some belief that the critters were giving more XP than they are)...
...but no, things haven't been kept nearly the same - it's basically a case of having doubled the requirement.
Now, lol - I don't want to win an internet, c'mon - it would be like fruitcake, I'd just end up regifting it to somebody else - but my math could be off. I don't keep detailed spreadsheets on this kind of thing, but I'll check with some folks that I know do to see if what I've got here is matching up with what they're seeing.
Each run took around 4 minutes on normal and granted 4,500 spec points. With a variance of 500 or so each way. That's mission xp, critter kills, the lot. Given that we needed 55k to level that would be running the mission 13 times on average. Let's round it up and call it an hour per level.
Post patch, same time around 4 minutes per visit. Total awarded spec points around 8k, +/- about 500, depending on critter type and spawned pets etc. Xp required is now around 155k? I don't know exact numbers, I didn't check for precision. So, that's around 20 visits to Argala to level, giving us a rough and ready time of 80 minutes, let's round it up a bit and call it an hour and a half.
I know it's a limited sample, probably not statistically significant, but if our perception of leveling speed was categorically stated not to change due to this latest alteration, well ....
Conclusion - walks like a nerf, looks like a nerf, quacks like a nerf? It's a nerf and I'm so done with nerf-herding.
^^ This needed quoting for posterity and truth.
Congratulations, Geko, your math was completely wrong!
Nah, his math wasn't wrong. He's just purposely ignoring the numbers that matter. If I had a tinfoil hat within reach, I'd slip it on long enough point out that they've gone to great lengths to nerf what they perceive as "easy" ways to level up. There was no reason to change post-60 leveling. None. Players were already used to the fact that episodes appeared to pay out less than before. This was an effort to nerf patrol runs where it paid out the most - critter kills. Despite what Geko says, I feel like they did in fact try to pull a fast one on us. I've been getting that vibe a lot lately. And until they bring the critter kills inline so that Argala nets the ~12,900xp it should, I'm going to continue to feel that way. Thank goodness I don't have a tinfoil hat nearby.
Fortunately, mine is still on.
Seriously, considering they send in a new Dev, just to do a lengthy, yet obvious obfuscation number on us, to hide the nerf, clearly indicates this nerf was very intentional.
Very, and those who are buying that new ship and interior are just reinforcing the belief we are stupid.
LOL. No, silly, that's Taylor Swift. :P And she's not really wearing a tinfoil hat either, btw; but work with me here, k?
As I often say, Trekkies are nerds (in the most positive sense of the word). There will always be someone capable of, and doing the math, and finding out. ALWAYS. Especially when they go out of their way to hide the fact.
Fair does, but many are buying intel ships and new gear, the only way we the players can get those morons at Cryptic to listen, is when their C-store purchases, slump.
I am quite sure, that such an occurrence would see a rapid change in Cryptics policy.
Do I care for the Delta content? I have not been impressed. The first few missions in the story were okay, until I got to the point where I was asked to be an errand person for Neelix, and collect spices for a stew. To compare to another popular MMO, Wow, has quests like that. They are typically reserved for lower level players. In my personal opinion, quests like that have no place when you are also trying to sell us high end combat oriented ships and gear. In my personal opinion the delta content, i.e. upgrading equipment, seems to favor the model of grind for dilithium, to try to improve your gear, to continue to be competitive, but you then turn around and reduce dilithium rewards. I saw in recent patch notes that queues are receiving increased dilithium rewards, which is a positive step in my opinion, but those queues are largely empty. I have logged on several times, got in line for 3 queue's, and started running story missions because they simply do not fill fast enough. Though all of that pales, to me, in comparison to the fact that if im not running DQ content, I literally can not lvl a character that is past 50. My 2 favorite places to go were the Voth ground battlezone and the undine space battlezone. I still go to the 2 locations to have fun, but I always have to keep in mind that I can not progress a character there anymore. Which hurts me personally having invested in the full Dyson ground combat set, full dyson space set (yes weapons, consoles, and the engine, shield, and deflector set) and full undine space set. When I use the equipment that I spent so much time effort and energy to acquire, anywhere except the factions specific battleground, it feels to me as if the set isn't as powerful as other equipment is.
In short, and I apologize for such a long post, I will be continuing to play, for free, because of the friends I have made, and the ships and equipment that I already have. I will not, for one second, even think about funding the decisions you seem to continue to make, by buying anything with real world money, nor will I encourage others to spend real money buying zen that they would use to buy my dilithium. I will also simply have to remind myself that it is no longer about trying to get even a single character to lvl 60, that its about spending time with my friends.
Resign please.
Thanks
Players.
It's like epic.
Seriously. They need to fix this immediately.
Well he did score points, literally by bringing up better numbers and calling out bad math. No one with bad math is immune to a little "you got the math wrong" ribbing. It wasn't snarky or petulant.
Agreed. I got fed up, logged out, and deleted the game. Upon doing so, Arc gives you the option to comment on why. There wasn't much room, but I believe I got my point accross. I'm sick and tired of them throwing one hurdle after the other at their players while so many other things go unfixed. It seems to be their primary focus at the moment. Even more insulting is that they gift-wrap these hurdles with new shiny things, hoping we don't notice. Well, I've noticed it in nearly every update since DR. I'm done with that sort of nonsense. I spend way too much money on this game to constantly have the rug ripped from under my feet. I'm keeping up with developments here on the forums, to see how this plays out. If they don't fix this, or at least acknowledge it, I won't be reinstalling.
wrong. he simply ignored the important numbers: exp for enemy kills and doffing. These have been atomicnerfed on top of an already very slow pace.
Note also that next week we will get a x2 buff on Delta patrol missions. This will perfectly offset the x2 nerf.
Meaning we are meant to play those instead of stf which pay materials. i.e. buy more packs.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I am the same, sat here watching forums I care little if I get banned for saying that Gecko is a stuck up ignorant little ****ing ****, but he has a major part in ****ing up a great MMO.
I'm currently buying a few games on Steam, my intention this pay day was to buy the Intel pack.
Nice job Gecko you colossal moron.
Firstly how much was it to start to rise up a level and now what is it to level under these circumstances. How many hours a day are they demanding we play for leveling? How many days before completing the process now as opposed to before.
Secondly, it's almost contradictory in nature for them to alienate the people who have to work for a living, who are most likely to plunk down coin for the game to not be able to level up as fast as those who do not. What is the advantage from a game and a pofitable standpoint of making the game more difficult for people? How is this to encourage people to play instead of disheartening them?
Third, is this an attempt to suicide the game? Rather than unceremoniously unload it, to simply run it into the ground?
Fourth point. How many people are still playing? I've been trying to hunt the accolade for starbase incursion and getting people to play it now, is like waiting for an eclipse. It happens but rarely. I worry when I can't understand the rationale behind these decisions that seem to have nothing to gain in game play and merely lose players.
Fifth, why were the doff missions not scaled accordingly? Is this an admission of the staff that doff missions should not have happened? Are they moving towards removing them and the requirement for doffs in the base constructions? Wild speculation I know, but my question stands, if it's not scaled, what is the actual reason?
Can I describe the plan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ0SgAU9LXI.
Frankly, the DR content is not stellar and honestly after the 150,000 experience needed for one captain skill point. The two remaining missions don't even come close to touching that.
Needless to say, no point to play the DR content. I am just logging in to continue the 20 hour R&D thing... I think others will see that and fund other games. I already did.