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Give us a KDF only -Kazon story arc that is concurrent with Delta Rising
davidwford
Member Posts: 1,836 Arc User
It was nice to see Jal Karen (Aron Eisenburg's character, NOT Nog) appear in the mission "Alliances", now as First Maje of the Ogla. As a continuation of the events in that mission, I would like to see Maje Karden bring the Ogla into the Empire's sphere of influence. In particular, it could be very compelling for Klingons and Nausicaans to get involved in the strife between the Kazon sects.
The introductory mission could involve the KDF player character being sent by Maje Karden to the very same Ogla training grounds that Karden earned his Jal name.
Further missions could focus on directly confronting Maje Sessen and the Nistrim. Some could even focus on turning other sects towards to alliance (such as subsuming the Oglamar into the Ogla sect) or otherwise elimintating them outright (such as the Halik).
I suspect that the Pommar would be favorable towards the Federation whereas the Relora would be more apt towards Romulans and the Republic. That would leave the Hobii, Monstral, Halik, and Vistik (Novel: Mosaic) in addition to any others the Devs decide to create.
Nominally, the end result of this arc would be to bring the majority of the Kazon under the leadership of the Ogla, who themselves would be vassals of the Empire.
The introductory mission could involve the KDF player character being sent by Maje Karden to the very same Ogla training grounds that Karden earned his Jal name.
Further missions could focus on directly confronting Maje Sessen and the Nistrim. Some could even focus on turning other sects towards to alliance (such as subsuming the Oglamar into the Ogla sect) or otherwise elimintating them outright (such as the Halik).
I suspect that the Pommar would be favorable towards the Federation whereas the Relora would be more apt towards Romulans and the Republic. That would leave the Hobii, Monstral, Halik, and Vistik (Novel: Mosaic) in addition to any others the Devs decide to create.
Nominally, the end result of this arc would be to bring the majority of the Kazon under the leadership of the Ogla, who themselves would be vassals of the Empire.
Post edited by davidwford on
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We already have Talaxians. And all Talaxians are not Neelix, they're physically very strong and resilient.
That is underwhelming, if not dissapointing.
I had a similar thought some time ago - that we should get foundry authors to organize and cooperate for creating some authentic and cohesive KDF storylines that would keep KDF players engaged and immersed in the nature of the faction as they should, since obviously the official conent will be a light digest for any faction that is not Federation.
The weak must perish. All that precious biomatter is wasted on them.
Maybe the next expansion can include the Klingon colony in the DQ and shed some light on the krenim.
As for the lack of love for any race not Federation. I agree that Cryptic should separate the factions as they were supposed to do in the first place. Now the galaxy is at peace with the Fed and the KDF. What is that? Its like the Horde and the Alliance joining forces in WoW. and the Romulans are a proud race and are only aligning themselves with the Fed and KDF out of necessity.
Talaxians should have only been a Federation race. There are planty of choices in the Delta Quadrant that would make fine additions to the Klingon Empire (not saying the Kazon at the moment). The Hirogen is one.
Yes the fall of the Klingon Empire would be absorbing ppl who fight over water and manage to kill themselves with something a toddler knows how to use.
Is just like with this talaxian playable lol. I've been around long enough that it has to be a hell of a damn good race to make me want another alt which with these grinds I am not even going to bother with it. But yeah we don't need any fights over water in the empire... Bloodwine is fine but just water I say no way.
I am sorry to say not going to happen while feddy bears get everthing...they will get them dont you worry sir but none for kdf and roms..
If the Federation can handle Pakled Science Officers...
In all seriousness, remember the backstory for the Kazon. Sure, they are ignorant and unsophisticated... but they were capable enough to win their freedom from the Trabe. They would be an excellent candidate for uplifting, since their true weakness is their lack of knowledge more than anything else. In many ways, even their Sect warfare can be seen mirrored by the House warfare (political and otherwise) within the Empire, which could be channeled into an outlet for their infighting. Give the Kazon the knowledge and culture of the Empire and you could actually end up with a solid ally. Remember, this is the Klingon Empire... the Klingons lead the Empire, the vassal species serve in whatever manner benefits us as a whole.
If we put forth an offer to join the Empire as a vassal species to one of the mid-size Sects, then divide and integrate individuals within our Academy, I believe we could educate and acculturate the Kazon into the Empire. The key would be ensuring that they were shown the parallels within their own culture and the advantages of joining with us. Full vassal status would be advisable, much like the Gorn, Letheans, Nausicaans, and Orions; this would help ensure loyalty rather than incite rebellion. Care should be taken in distinguishing between our allied Orions and the Orion Syndicate, however, if we wish to avoid conflict amongst our vassals.
We should, however, select a Sect small enough to know weakness and large enough to know strength. Choosing a Sect too large has the obvious risk of training and equipping a large number of Kazon with unknown loyalites, while too small of a Sect would risk giving strength to those with no knowledge of how to use it. In addition, to integrate the Kazon into the Empire, it is imperative that they remain a minority within the ranks of the KDF for at least a generation. While the Empire does not strive to homogenize societies in the manner of the Federation, the Kazon desperately need the culture and knowledge of the Empire to meet their full potential... and the Empire does not need a vassal species that cannot benefit us as a whole.
The Kazon fight wars over one of the most common substances in the universe, that being water. They're factually complete frakking morons.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Kindly repeat those last two sentences. And someone get me a Lethean.
See, you forgive the Pakled their ignorance but not the Kazon... why? Ignorance or a lack of sophistication in one or more aspects of a society does not mean that an individual, culture, or species would be incapable of either given the necessary education. Are you suggesting that Europeans should have been incapable of learning to make or use gunpowder because the Chinese invented it, or that the Chinese should have been incapable of using the internet because the basic design stems from an American networking project? History has shown that neither of those possibilities held true, with both cultures adapting to skillful use of the other's technology once they understood it. Not knowing of something or how something works does not preclude the ability to learn of something or understand how it works.
Nothing in the way the Kazon were portrayed indicates that they are inherently stupid, merely uneducated and unsophisticated. These are former slaves that have acquired the technology of their oppressors, without education in the underlying theory or science behind that technology, and with significant gaps in what they have available. In particular, transporter and replicator technology are completely unavailable... meaning that any supplies used on Kazon vessels had to have been carried onboard as cargo, using shuttles if the larger vessel was incapable of landing. This would naturally create conflict over resource hubs and critical locations necessary to supply trade routes... look at Russia's recent acquisition of the Crimea region in order to secure naval access. No Kazon ever had the convenience of uttering the phrase, "Tea, Earl Grey, hot."
While the Federation might be prohibited from uplifting a species technologically or culturally, thanks to the Prime Directive, the Klingon Empire is not. So long as the Kazon have the potential to benefit the Empire, without becoming a threat to its stability, there is nothing that would prevent selective inclusion of one or more Kazon Sects.
Thank you! To further add on, all of this talk about how stupid the Kazon supposedly are.....sounds suspiciously like the same arguments racial purists in the 1920-1930s both in the US and in Europe. The claims of Kazon stupidity are almost word for word the exact same critizism of East Asians during that time (and blacks during the US Civil War).
The Trabe used the Kazon as a slave race. Anyone with even basic knowledge of how the horrific institution of slavery knows that the slave owners did not even teach those they held in bondage to read. Why? because people who can read can educate and empower themselves. Educated and empowered people are at best difficult to control. It would not surprise me if the Kazon were likewise illiterate for the same reason. As to how an illiterate person could fly a ship? Illiterate people could sail around the world with basic knowledge of navigation: the Sun rises in the East and sets in the West, and Polaris, the pole star is always North. Neither of these facts require one to be able to read. One can operate heavy equipment once they are shown how to do so. You will notice that in some jobs in the US(grill cook in fast food for example), one does not need to even have good English speaking ability to perform their job.
And by that same explanation, the Kazon may actually be playing up the "dumb blonde" sterotype so that people foolishly underestimate their capabilities, just like the Pakled. The Kazon, however take a different track. They play up the dumb fighter so that people are not expecting them to use a complex and unorthodox strategy.
To further build on breadandcircus's comments, in "Basics Part 1" (VOY), the Kazon very effectively carried out a traditional Cardassian tactical plan. Granted, it was Seska who showed them how to perform it, but the fact that they could actually carry it out shows that they are not as dumb as people think they are. Further, one could even make the case that Seska purposely implemented something Janeway and Chakotay would expect with a contingency plan in place for when Voyager turned to fight. Granted, again, Seska's planning, but it was the Kazon of the Nistrim Sect who carried out her complex battle plans.
Personally for KDF I would prefer Bentham or Vaadwaur .
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Plenty of people have offered up better proposals for PVE content for the KDF over the years, it has all fell on deaf ears. Doing something with the Letheans for one is a better idea, they are already part of the KDF and the Empire and are a complete blank slate beyond they have some mind form of telepathy.
Also the Kazon have demonstrated they are stupid, they can't figure out that they can just fly to another place near them with their starships that can travel faster than the speed of light to get more water.
Wow. Godwin's Law. That didn't take long. :rolleyes:
Give me a break. There is a colossal difference between navigating in two dimensions on an ocean and navigating in three in space, especially at faster than light speeds. Are you seriously suggesting that an illiterate species can operate a computer, let alone build one?
Fighting wars over one of the most common and easiest-to-manufacture molecules in existence, hello? Two hydrogens and an oxygen, hello? The Kazon canonically don't understand basic chemistry, or the fact that you can mine it from asteroids, melt it, and purify it. The Klingon Empire has no use for a race that objectively stupid.
The fact that they needed a Cardassian holding their hands to fly in formation and execute a basic pincer movement says absolutely nothing favorable about their intelligence. Seska did all the planning and strategy that whole time. The Kazon can follow orders and use brute force. That is the sum total of their military skill.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Of course, that all brings to mind one question: Does mentioning Godwin's Law by extension fulfill Godwin's Law? Especially when the reference being purported to fulfill to Godwin's Law relates to views about East Asians or African Americans, and the topic at hand is in fact a discussion of supposed racial superiority, it appears that calling "Godwin's Law" does more to fulfill it than the post being referenced. Hmmm...
I was using the term more generally than that. He compared the people with a factual basis for considering the Kazon to be collectively stupid-as-frak to historical racists. The TRIBBLE were racist to an extreme. Hence, Godwin.
Stretching things, I'll grant, but I didn't feel like being more explicit than that.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I concur. Exactly what would the Kazon bring to the Empire anyway? Nothing but bad hair and even worse standards of hygiene.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
@honorless_leHengan: Amen to that one, Ssharki. First City smells bad enough as it is. Public sanitation: heard of it?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Okay, fair enough. I'd hope that the post you referenced was not intended to call anyone racist, however, merely to point out the conceptual basis for the Kazon. They were supposedly intended to represent street gangs of the time, which indicates that they should be more a case of lost potential rather than outright stupidity. The manner in which they were portrayed leaves much to be desired on that front, sadly, as the writers weren't really all that big on complexity for much of Voyager's time onscreen.
Honestly, if the Klingon Empire can turn Talaxians into Warriors, we can do anything. Even uplifting the Kazon. :P
We could, but why would we want to? Altruism is Federation's game. Leave them to it.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
TALAXIANS.
A species so utterly and completely incompetent that their MOST COMPETENT MEMBER (Neelix) once nearly disabled an entire freaking ship with a small piece of cheese.
That's like being beaten by the Teletubbies in an MMA fight. That's not military skill, and they can't even follow orders reliably. Plus their brute force ain't all that much.
What the Kazon can do, to paraphrase Dalek Sec, is die better than other species. Kazon are very good at dying in warp core breaches. Not much else. Well, they'd be good food for the targs...but you'd have to put'em through a power wash first. Can't have sick targs, after all...
That may be one of my favorite similes ever.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
To give them a piece of their own medicine perhaps? :P
The Federation in STO is doing everything they can to turn themselves into a Klingon Empire, they shoot everything on sight, lead military campaigns into a region of space nowhere near the Federation, build cloakng ships, break treaties at their whim.....they're even becomming the worse variation of imperialists - commitng genocide and spewing pure imperialst propaganda.
So maybe the Empire wants to play their game and start uplifting species and behave alturistic.
Anyway, by now this thread is turning into pure BS thanks to some people and unfortunately for the OP. I really do wonder what was going through some people's heads while hey watched Star Trek.
Perhaps the kazon are smart enough for tribble extermination duty..