Okay, fair enough. I'd hope that the post you referenced was not intended to call anyone racist, however, merely to point out the conceptual basis for the Kazon. They were supposedly intended to represent street gangs of the time, which indicates that they should be more a case of lost potential rather than outright stupidity. The manner in which they were portrayed leaves much to be desired on that front, sadly, as the writers weren't really all that big on complexity for much of Voyager's time onscreen.
Honestly, if the Klingon Empire can turn Talaxians into Warriors, we can do anything. Even uplifting the Kazon. :P
And that was my point. Wasted potential due to having been slaves to another species. It is amazing how quickly people discount one's potential without giving it a serious chance. And the Voyager(or DS9) writers never did give the Kazon, nor the Hirogen, nor the Jem'Hadar a real chance at depth as was done for both the Klingons and the Romulans. As was the case in TOS, they were cookie cutter, static, clich
And that was my point. Wasted potential due to having been slaves to another species. It is amazing how quickly people discount one's potential without giving it a serious chance. And the Voyager(or DS9) writers never did give the Kazon, nor the Hirogen, nor the Jem'Hadar a real chance at depth as was done for both the Klingons and the Romulans. As was the case in TOS, they were cookie cutter, static, clich
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Does not understand fundamental chemistry or astronomy and needed help from the Alpha Quadrant to fly in formation. Comprende?
Not even the Borg thought they had any potential. Canon fact.
As for the other species you mentioned: The Hirogen? Granted. But again, it's VOY: did you really expect anything better?
The Jem'Hadar? Complete and utter bull. Second episode they turn up we learn about their biology. Later we learn that despite the Founders they still have enough free will to say "no", provided they can survive sans white. We see one frag his own Vorta (Weyoun 4) for impugning his honor, and another who calls that a failure of discipline and willingly marches to a death his Vorta sent him to on purpose. We see a Gamma Jem'Hadar elder resentful of a newbie Alpha Jem'Hadar promoted over his head. We learn they rarely live past ten or so, which gives an indication of how much day-to-day fighting the Dominion does just on their own turf.
That's actually more depth than the Jaffa got in Stargate SG-1, a show I will hold up as being better than DS9 on most days. It's a hell of a lot of depth for a race of replaceable cannon fodder.
1. The Hirogen at least had SOME depth--they got shafted into mustache-twirlers a lot, but they DID at least have more than just soldiers in their society.
2. Oh, yes. That guy. He was epic. Shot Weyoun 4 in the face, I LOVED that.
But do NOT impugn the honor of DS9 by comparing it to SG-1. Sg-1 was excellent early on, but Ba'al was the only good thing after Jackson got resurrected. Later seasons, plus the wrap-up movies, were...not so hot.
I mean, Ba'al and Teal'c were the only ones in Continuum not phoning it in.
Kazon joining the Empire? NO THANKS!
The Kazon aren't warriors! They are space hillbillies. Heck even the Talaxians are better fighters than Kazon.
The KDF doesn't need anymore bad hairdays.
"Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons." Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
I think its fair to say that most people think the Kazon are as dumb as a bag of hammers.
And considerably less useful. I say that as a guy who works construction for a living.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Yeah, I can't even imagine why we allied with them in "Takedown"....
I mean, that betrayal was obvious, inevitable, and utterly pointless for the Kazon.
...
Actually, starsword, want to do a "Takedown" collab novelization? Not for a little while, of course, but maybe over Thanksgiving break?
It could give us an excuse to put two Letheans in the same room and have 'em chat...
I actually haven't had a chance to play DR yet. Only just got my laptop back from Geek Squad yesterday and spent all of yesterday and today getting it sorted out. Had a hard drive failure.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I actually haven't had a chance to play DR yet. Only just got my laptop back from Geek Squad yesterday and spent all of yesterday and today getting it sorted out. Had a hard drive failure.
Ouch.
Well, let's put it this way...level at least to 55 before you start playing the missions, otherwise you run into grind barriers. When you play "Reunion", bear in mind that Neelix is literally the only Talaxian who actually TRIES to do anything. Sure, he's a moron who fails at literally everything he tries, but at least he puts in the EFFORT.
There's a later mission where you have to put up with him again for a few minutes (about a quarter of the mission plus a short cutscene, but Gaul does most of the talking there), and you get an EMH doff out of it--I actually liked that mission, Gaul shoots a Talaxian. It made me cheer.
When you get to the point where you have to help Harry Kim ally with the Kazon, don't even bother with diplomacy, the Kazon are too stupid to understand it. Just flip through the dialogue and merrily pewpew. You get a Hierarchy boff out of it who looks totally like Strax--worth a minute of talking to Kazon, IMHO.
Oh, and in Kobali Prime--Harry Kim is awesome. He's competent, intelligent, realistic, respectful, well-written, actually ASKS ADMIRAL MCAWESOMENAME'S PERMISSION TO TALK, and is otherwise generally great. Best bit of Takedown is helping him fight off the Vaadwaur.
With not many people wanting Kazon in the KDF they will put them in saying overwhelming support for it and when it doesn't *sell* they will say they can't do it ever again lol.
I will say though based on the track record of this game and how awful DR has turned out to be we won't have to worry about the game for much longer since even the fan boys out there are even disgusted with how things turned out.
Does not understand fundamental chemistry or astronomy and needed help from the Alpha Quadrant to fly in formation. Comprende?
Tell me, do you expect hunter-gatherer tribes in Africa or South America to understand even basic chemistry? You are conflating technological relativism with cultural relativism. You expect everyone in the 24-25th century to be at the same technological level. That is foolish. As Star Trek have even shown, each culture advances at different rates and with different strengths. What you (or the Borg) discount out of hand might actually have something of value under the right conditions.
As to your example of the Jem'Hadar, even the writers wanted to make them a faceless horde. Supposedly, the Borg has more depth than the Jem'Hadar and that was suppose to make the collective more personable, whereas the Jem'Hadar were suppose to be relegated into a static villain species, a role that the Klingons use to hold. Yes, there were examples of Jem'Hadar having personality, but they were quickly crushed by the producers of DS9, again because it bucked the desires of the producers to create a faceless enemy to hate. I argue that you are doing the same with the Kazon. I don't mind if the Kazon remain a villain species, but I want to face a dynatmic and complex opponent whom outright killing only makes me the villain. A dynamic villain (or ally) who makes me examine myself and what values I hold dear is a more compelling opponent. One whom achieving victory over is a more difficult task that winning a straight-up fight. An indepth story-line arc could do that for KDF players.
I'm curious as to why people are so eager to get the Kazon into the KDF in the first place, I mean there are already a number of existing Imperial races (Gorn, Lethean, Nasusican, Orion) who have had nothing done with them beyond having a one paragraph description on the character creation page. I would sooner flesh out one or two of them to make them an interesting part of the Empire. Especially before we add what even the Voyager writers call a bad knockoff of the Klingons to the roster.
I'm curious as to why people are so eager to get the Kazon into the KDF in the first place, I mean there are already a number of existing Imperial races (Gorn, Lethean, Nasusican, Orion) who have had nothing done with them beyond having a one paragraph description on the character creation page. I would sooner flesh out one or two of them to make them an interesting part of the Empire. Especially before we add what even the Voyager writers call a bad knockoff of the Klingons to the roster.
This.
Give us extensive backstory and exploration for the Letheans, Nausicaans, and Gorn FIRST.
Then have the Kazon exterminated; they're Too Dumb To Live.
Tell me, do you expect hunter-gatherer tribes in Africa or South America to understand even basic chemistry? You are conflating technological relativism with cultural relativism. You expect everyone in the 24-25th century to be at the same technological level. That is foolish. As Star Trek have even shown, each culture advances at different rates and with different strengths. What you (or the Borg) discount out of hand might actually have something of value under the right conditions.
Like zipagat said, would you expect those same hunter-gatherers to then be usable by a modern military?
A spacefaring race that fights wars over two hydrogens and an oxygen, one of the easiest molecules in the entire universe to find or manufacture if you have even basic knowledge of chemistry and astronomy. We're not talking about hunter-gatherers in South America, we're talking about a warp-capable species that is supposedly a major power in its home space. And yet they don't understand even the most fundamental science behind their own technology.
Science doesn't work in a vacuum: Each field is dependent upon countless others. Creating hulls that will withstand the stresses of space travel relies on metallurgy, a subset of materials science, which is a subset of physics and chemistry. Computers to navigate the ship require knowledge of electrical engineering (rooted in physics) and materials science, and navigating the ship requires knowledge of physics (i.e. Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest SOB in space, and so on) and astronomy. Reactors to power a warp core and break the light barrier require knowledge of nuclear physics (i.e. how matter interacts with antimatter and sustaining a fusion reaction) and chemistry, and the warp core itself is a matter of astrophysics. You get the picture yet? And yet the Kazon are so clueless about chemistry they feel the need to fight wars over water.
That, coupled with how terribly the Kazon performed against Voyager even with Seska helping them, means it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to find out that the Kazon don't even know how to build starships and have just been using what they originally stole from the Trabe all this time.
As to your example of the Jem'Hadar, even the writers wanted to make them a faceless horde. Supposedly, the Borg has more depth than the Jem'Hadar and that was suppose to make the collective more personable, whereas the Jem'Hadar were suppose to be relegated into a static villain species, a role that the Klingons use to hold. Yes, there were examples of Jem'Hadar having personality, but they were quickly crushed by the producers of DS9, again because it bucked the desires of the producers to create a faceless enemy to hate.
It's actually a lot simpler than that. No matter how much depth they gave the Jem'Hadar, or the Borg for that matter, at the end of the day they were still the enemy military against whom the protagonists were fighting an all-or nothing war of survival. Worrying about your opponent's backstory and motivations isn't exactly priority one when they're shooting at you.
I argue that you are doing the same with the Kazon.
Nope. I'm arguing simple canon facts pointing to the Kazon being completely worthless to anybody except the Trabe and Vidiians, and even then only as slave labor or walking organ transplants. You're using analogies that don't hold up under scrutiny to uphold a position unsupported by either facts or the opinions of the Kazons' own showrunners.
I don't mind if the Kazon remain a villain species, but I want to face a dynatmic and complex opponent whom outright killing only makes me the villain. A dynamic villain (or ally) who makes me examine myself and what values I hold dear is a more compelling opponent. One whom achieving victory over is a more difficult task that winning a straight-up fight. An indepth story-line arc could do that for KDF players.
And you're not going to get one from the Kazon. At best they are a credible threat to unescorted freighters and light warships, and even then it took multiple battleship-class Kazon vessels with the direction of a foreign consultant to pose a challenge to an unsupported medium cruiser with a senior staff that weren't the brightest bulbs in Starfleet's box on their best day. They would be laughable enemies to the Klingon Defense Force and not worth the resource expenditure as allies.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
The Kazon should consider themselves lucky really that it wasn't a more powerful ship in Voyagers place, if it was say a Sovereign class starship , a Negh'var , or a D'deridex warbird I imagine they wouldn't fare well. Though their reaction to cloaking tech would be amusing given the Kazon reaction to replicators and transporters.
The Kazon should consider themselves lucky really that it wasn't a more powerful ship in Voyagers place, if it was say a Sovereign class starship , a Negh'var , or a D'deridex warbird I imagine they wouldn't fare well. Though their reaction to cloaking tech would be amusing given the Kazon reaction to replicators and transporters.
Oh, man, the Enterprise could've taken out the entire Kazon species without breaking a sweat...
Worf: Sir, more Kazon are incoming. They are firing weapons.
Picard: Again? Why do they keep attacking us? Alright, fire at will, Mr. Worf.
Worf: Thank you, sir.
*Worf fires everything*
*The Kazon explode*
Worf, 30 seconds later: Sir, even MORE Kazon are incoming. They are firing weapons.
Picard: OK, f*ck this, they clearly aren't interested in diplomacy. Kill them all and come get me when they want to talk. I have personnel reports to deal with.
Worf: With pleasure, sir.
*Five hours of constant attack later, the Kazon species is extinct*
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
and 24 hours after that, the entire crew of the enterprise is on trial for genocide, a trial they will never win because NOTHING excuses genocide
I'd say that it's not genocide. It's racial suicide by the Kazon.
Basically, the Enterprise is demonstrably able to destroy any Kazon ship it encounters, the Kazon won't talk to them because they're f*cking stupid, and because of plot magic the only thing Kazon ships HAVE is fast warp drives.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
and 24 hours after that, the entire crew of the enterprise is on trial for genocide, a trial they will never win because NOTHING excuses genocide
You need a new dictionary. A, it's pure self-defense by the Enterprise, not racially or ethnically based systematic extermination. B, only adult Kazon males are allowed to fight (remember, they're a severely male-dominant society).
And in any case it's immaterial. The Klingons wouldn't give a damn anyway.
just because you have the ABILITY to destroy something, doesn't mean you NEED to
a disabling strike is just as effective and doesn't make you a soulless monster in the process
Oh, so all soldiers are soulless monsters for killing people who opened fire on them?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
and 24 hours after that, the entire crew of the enterprise is on trial for genocide, a trial they will never win because NOTHING excuses genocide
Picard is more likely to shoot to disable rather than destroy, he is a diplomat and explorer first. Now Sisko on the other hand... the Kazon should be worried about him. They are also lucky that Voyager was only an Intrepid class and not something more powerful, I doubt Janeway would of thought twice about blowing any Kazon that went near her into atoms.
Picard is more likely to shoot to disable rather than destroy, he is a diplomat and explorer first. Now Sisko on the other hand... the Kazon should be worried about him. They are also lucky that Voyager was only an Intrepid class and not something more powerful, I doubt Janeway would of thought twice about blowing any Kazon that went near her into atoms.
Point, there...the Defiant could beat the sh*t out of the Kazon with hilarious ease.
Point, there...the Defiant could beat the sh*t out of the Kazon with hilarious ease.
Point of order, the Defiant can certainly punch well above its weight, but it never actually scored a confirmed kill against anything bigger than a Chel Grett. Kazon Predator-class (not the raider, the heavy capital that Chakotay rammed in "Caretaker") packs a lot of bulk even if the tech leaves something to be desired. Sisko'd win, but I don't think it'd be a curbstomp.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Point of order, the Defiant can certainly punch well above its weight, but it never actually scored a confirmed kill against anything bigger than a Chel Grett. Kazon Predator-class (not the raider, the heavy capital that Chakotay rammed in "Caretaker") packs a lot of bulk even if the tech leaves something to be desired. Sisko'd win, but I don't think it'd be a curbstomp.
I think about the best it was shown to do was when Thomas Riker used the Defiant to cripple a Keldon class cruiser with a volley of quantum torpedoes. The Defiant also didn't seem to hold out too long against a Vor'cha class either.
Guess nobody liked my KDF "nuke this site from orbit" Idea eh?
Sorry Kazon are basically the thugs of the Delta Quadrant and are about good enough to be alliance punching bags.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I serioulsy hope they bring out playable Kazon species so I can make several of them if nothing else than to annoy the hell out of all of you after the stupidity I just read in this thread.
I serioulsy hope they bring out playable Kazon species so I can make several of them if nothing else than to annoy the hell out of all of you after the stupidity I just read in this thread.
Stupidity?
The only stupidity I see here is that of the Kazon, who lack a fundamental understanding of basic science and yet inexplicably have starships, who have an absurdly misogynistic society and attack everything they see despite being woefully underpowered, and somehow still exist is a species; elt's face it, man, the Kazon are idiots made a threat because PLOT.
Comments
And that was my point. Wasted potential due to having been slaves to another species. It is amazing how quickly people discount one's potential without giving it a serious chance. And the Voyager(or DS9) writers never did give the Kazon, nor the Hirogen, nor the Jem'Hadar a real chance at depth as was done for both the Klingons and the Romulans. As was the case in TOS, they were cookie cutter, static, clich
One or both of us HAS to use that in a fic now, you know?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
2. Oh, yes. That guy. He was epic. Shot Weyoun 4 in the face, I LOVED that.
But do NOT impugn the honor of DS9 by comparing it to SG-1. Sg-1 was excellent early on, but Ba'al was the only good thing after Jackson got resurrected. Later seasons, plus the wrap-up movies, were...not so hot.
I mean, Ba'al and Teal'c were the only ones in Continuum not phoning it in.
Mmh, point that.
It deserves a trope, too. Maybe a subtrope of Curb-Stomp Battle?
The Kazon aren't warriors! They are space hillbillies. Heck even the Talaxians are better fighters than Kazon.
The KDF doesn't need anymore bad hairdays.
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
And considerably less useful. I say that as a guy who works construction for a living.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Yeah, I can't even imagine why we allied with them in "Takedown"....
I mean, that betrayal was obvious, inevitable, and utterly pointless for the Kazon.
...
Actually, starsword, want to do a "Takedown" collab novelization? Not for a little while, of course, but maybe over Thanksgiving break?
It could give us an excuse to put two Letheans in the same room and have 'em chat...
I actually haven't had a chance to play DR yet. Only just got my laptop back from Geek Squad yesterday and spent all of yesterday and today getting it sorted out. Had a hard drive failure.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Ouch.
Well, let's put it this way...level at least to 55 before you start playing the missions, otherwise you run into grind barriers. When you play "Reunion", bear in mind that Neelix is literally the only Talaxian who actually TRIES to do anything. Sure, he's a moron who fails at literally everything he tries, but at least he puts in the EFFORT.
There's a later mission where you have to put up with him again for a few minutes (about a quarter of the mission plus a short cutscene, but Gaul does most of the talking there), and you get an EMH doff out of it--I actually liked that mission, Gaul shoots a Talaxian. It made me cheer.
When you get to the point where you have to help Harry Kim ally with the Kazon, don't even bother with diplomacy, the Kazon are too stupid to understand it. Just flip through the dialogue and merrily pewpew. You get a Hierarchy boff out of it who looks totally like Strax--worth a minute of talking to Kazon, IMHO.
Oh, and in Kobali Prime--Harry Kim is awesome. He's competent, intelligent, realistic, respectful, well-written, actually ASKS ADMIRAL MCAWESOMENAME'S PERMISSION TO TALK, and is otherwise generally great. Best bit of Takedown is helping him fight off the Vaadwaur.
I will say though based on the track record of this game and how awful DR has turned out to be we won't have to worry about the game for much longer since even the fan boys out there are even disgusted with how things turned out.
Tell me, do you expect hunter-gatherer tribes in Africa or South America to understand even basic chemistry? You are conflating technological relativism with cultural relativism. You expect everyone in the 24-25th century to be at the same technological level. That is foolish. As Star Trek have even shown, each culture advances at different rates and with different strengths. What you (or the Borg) discount out of hand might actually have something of value under the right conditions.
As to your example of the Jem'Hadar, even the writers wanted to make them a faceless horde. Supposedly, the Borg has more depth than the Jem'Hadar and that was suppose to make the collective more personable, whereas the Jem'Hadar were suppose to be relegated into a static villain species, a role that the Klingons use to hold. Yes, there were examples of Jem'Hadar having personality, but they were quickly crushed by the producers of DS9, again because it bucked the desires of the producers to create a faceless enemy to hate. I argue that you are doing the same with the Kazon. I don't mind if the Kazon remain a villain species, but I want to face a dynatmic and complex opponent whom outright killing only makes me the villain. A dynamic villain (or ally) who makes me examine myself and what values I hold dear is a more compelling opponent. One whom achieving victory over is a more difficult task that winning a straight-up fight. An indepth story-line arc could do that for KDF players.
This.
Give us extensive backstory and exploration for the Letheans, Nausicaans, and Gorn FIRST.
Then have the Kazon exterminated; they're Too Dumb To Live.
A spacefaring race that fights wars over two hydrogens and an oxygen, one of the easiest molecules in the entire universe to find or manufacture if you have even basic knowledge of chemistry and astronomy. We're not talking about hunter-gatherers in South America, we're talking about a warp-capable species that is supposedly a major power in its home space. And yet they don't understand even the most fundamental science behind their own technology.
Science doesn't work in a vacuum: Each field is dependent upon countless others. Creating hulls that will withstand the stresses of space travel relies on metallurgy, a subset of materials science, which is a subset of physics and chemistry. Computers to navigate the ship require knowledge of electrical engineering (rooted in physics) and materials science, and navigating the ship requires knowledge of physics (i.e. Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest SOB in space, and so on) and astronomy. Reactors to power a warp core and break the light barrier require knowledge of nuclear physics (i.e. how matter interacts with antimatter and sustaining a fusion reaction) and chemistry, and the warp core itself is a matter of astrophysics. You get the picture yet? And yet the Kazon are so clueless about chemistry they feel the need to fight wars over water.
That, coupled with how terribly the Kazon performed against Voyager even with Seska helping them, means it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to find out that the Kazon don't even know how to build starships and have just been using what they originally stole from the Trabe all this time.
It's actually a lot simpler than that. No matter how much depth they gave the Jem'Hadar, or the Borg for that matter, at the end of the day they were still the enemy military against whom the protagonists were fighting an all-or nothing war of survival. Worrying about your opponent's backstory and motivations isn't exactly priority one when they're shooting at you.
Nope. I'm arguing simple canon facts pointing to the Kazon being completely worthless to anybody except the Trabe and Vidiians, and even then only as slave labor or walking organ transplants. You're using analogies that don't hold up under scrutiny to uphold a position unsupported by either facts or the opinions of the Kazons' own showrunners.
And you're not going to get one from the Kazon. At best they are a credible threat to unescorted freighters and light warships, and even then it took multiple battleship-class Kazon vessels with the direction of a foreign consultant to pose a challenge to an unsupported medium cruiser with a senior staff that weren't the brightest bulbs in Starfleet's box on their best day. They would be laughable enemies to the Klingon Defense Force and not worth the resource expenditure as allies.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Oh, man, the Enterprise could've taken out the entire Kazon species without breaking a sweat...
Worf: Sir, more Kazon are incoming. They are firing weapons.
Picard: Again? Why do they keep attacking us? Alright, fire at will, Mr. Worf.
Worf: Thank you, sir.
*Worf fires everything*
*The Kazon explode*
Worf, 30 seconds later: Sir, even MORE Kazon are incoming. They are firing weapons.
Picard: OK, f*ck this, they clearly aren't interested in diplomacy. Kill them all and come get me when they want to talk. I have personnel reports to deal with.
Worf: With pleasure, sir.
*Five hours of constant attack later, the Kazon species is extinct*
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I'd say that it's not genocide. It's racial suicide by the Kazon.
Basically, the Enterprise is demonstrably able to destroy any Kazon ship it encounters, the Kazon won't talk to them because they're f*cking stupid, and because of plot magic the only thing Kazon ships HAVE is fast warp drives.
a disabling strike is just as effective and doesn't make you a soulless monster in the process
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
You need a new dictionary. A, it's pure self-defense by the Enterprise, not racially or ethnically based systematic extermination. B, only adult Kazon males are allowed to fight (remember, they're a severely male-dominant society).
And in any case it's immaterial. The Klingons wouldn't give a damn anyway.
Oh, so all soldiers are soulless monsters for killing people who opened fire on them?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
*looks at the Lycan who killed a Kazon maje through what was basically torture*
*looks at the Grand Vizier, who isn't a monster despite killing a lot of people (although that's mostly because of all those resurrection devices)*
Uh-huh. Right.
Picard is more likely to shoot to disable rather than destroy, he is a diplomat and explorer first. Now Sisko on the other hand... the Kazon should be worried about him. They are also lucky that Voyager was only an Intrepid class and not something more powerful, I doubt Janeway would of thought twice about blowing any Kazon that went near her into atoms.
Point, there...the Defiant could beat the sh*t out of the Kazon with hilarious ease.
Point of order, the Defiant can certainly punch well above its weight, but it never actually scored a confirmed kill against anything bigger than a Chel Grett. Kazon Predator-class (not the raider, the heavy capital that Chakotay rammed in "Caretaker") packs a lot of bulk even if the tech leaves something to be desired. Sisko'd win, but I don't think it'd be a curbstomp.
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I think about the best it was shown to do was when Thomas Riker used the Defiant to cripple a Keldon class cruiser with a volley of quantum torpedoes. The Defiant also didn't seem to hold out too long against a Vor'cha class either.
Sorry Kazon are basically the thugs of the Delta Quadrant and are about good enough to be alliance punching bags.
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Stupidity?
The only stupidity I see here is that of the Kazon, who lack a fundamental understanding of basic science and yet inexplicably have starships, who have an absurdly misogynistic society and attack everything they see despite being woefully underpowered, and somehow still exist is a species; elt's face it, man, the Kazon are idiots made a threat because PLOT.