The only stupidity I see here is that of the Kazon, who lack a fundamental understanding of basic science and yet inexplicably have starships, who have an absurdly misogynistic society and attack everything they see despite being woefully underpowered, and somehow still exist is a species; elt's face it, man, the Kazon are idiots made a threat because PLOT.
In STO terms, I can list you a 100 things that are 1.000.000 times more stupid than the Kazon.
And out of STO terms, mankind used to be dumber idiots than the Kazon. Arguably, a strong portion still is. Just saying.
In STO terms, I can list you a 100 things that are 1.000.000 times more stupid than the Kazon.
And out of STO terms, mankind used to be dumber idiots than the Kazon. Arguably, a strong portion still is. Just saying.
List 'em.
Also, wrong. Never in human society has there been a society MORE stupid than the Kazon, and I'm including the Massachusetts Bay Colony and TRIBBLE Germany in that. I'm including NORTH FREAKING KOREA in that.
The Kazon are fundamentally more stupid than North Korea, the most absurd religious fundamentalists ever, and one of the top 5 most evil governments ever. They fight wars over WATER, a substance that by their level of technology they SHOULD be able to refine and even replicate with ease. Seriously, if nothing else they can just shoot a planet until its atmosphere catches fire and come back later to pick up the condensed water from the oxygen/hydrogen reactions. And they can't even think of THAT.
1. Divide et Impera
2. Voth using dinosaurs with friggin' laz0rz on their head in a Dyson Sphere
3. Alliance between the Klingon Empire and the Orion Syndicate
4. Aliance between the Klingon Empire and random Nausicaan pirate clans
5. Ongoing war between the Federation and the Klingon Empire, while KDF warriors are permitted to use DS9 and land on Bajor, a Federation member world.
6. Tholian ships used by Starfleet/KDF
7. Undine ships used by Starfleet/KDF
8. Cardassia is in turmoil 40 years after the DW, time spent under the protection of the Federation while the Romulan Republic set on a backwater world manages to go from guerila rebels to a fully fledged fleet od Scimitars 1 year after a total civil war.
9. Player characters spending an entire story arc telling Obisek how "thalaron is bad, m'mkay?" and that it's a "weapon for cowards", then turn around and buy a Thalaron equiped Scimitar themselves.
10. Starfleet Officers receiving orders and an entire story arc from Section 31
11. 3-rd Borg Dynasty
Need I really go on...?
Also the dark ages told me to say "hello" to you. Ya know, burning people because of withccraft and whatnot. :rolleyes:
And even today, take a good look in the mirror. What are we fighting wars over these days? Religiuous fundamentalism and oil. Over a thing that promotes peace and serenity in the vast majority of it's incarnations and over a finite and obsoleted energy resource that pollutes the living environment. Don't be so fast to judge and think about it - by your principle if a vastly advanced species looks at us now, don't you think we'd be fulfilling some requirements for planetary anihilation as well?
What I'm saying is - keep an open mind, Trek. That's what it always was about.
1. Divide et Impera Terrible, but Cryptic ACKNOWLEDGED it and it was supposed to be part of a larger arc that got cut off because budget.
2. Voth using dinosaurs with friggin' laz0rz on their head in a Dyson Sphere That's stupid, but not as stupid as the Kazon, because at least the dinos are awesome.
3. Alliance between the Klingon Empire and the Orion Syndicate Not stupid--think of it as an alliance of convenience.
4. Aliance between the Klingon Empire and random Nausicaan pirate clans Justified by the Nausicaans giving the Klingons a really good fight in the battle for Gornar--Klingons respect strength.
5. Ongoing war between the Federation and the Klingon Empire, while KDF warriors are permitted to use DS9 and land on Bajor, a Federation member world. Gameplay and story segregation, plus no longer an issue as of s9
6. Tholian ships used by Starfleet/KDF Perfectly justifiable
7. Undine ships used by Starfleet/KDF Yup, that's stupid, but not QUITE as stupid as the Kazon.
8. Cardassia is in turmoil 40 years after the DW, time spent under the protection of the Federation while the Romulan Republic set on a backwater world manages to go from guerila rebels to a fully fledged fleet od Scimitars 1 year after a total civil war. I wouldn't call this stupid. More good luck on the Republic's part.
9. Player characters spending an entire story arc telling Obisek how "thalaron is bad, m'mkay?" and that it's a "weapon for cowards", then turn around and buy a Thalaron equiped Scimitar themselves. Well, that's your problem for buying the Scimitar.
10. Starfleet Officers receiving orders and an entire story arc from Section 31 Oh, like this didn't happen in DS9...:rolleyes:
11. 3-rd Borg Dynasty No longer part of the game, and Cryptic admitted that it was a mistake. They have said nothing like that about the Kazon.
Need I really go on...?
Also the dark ages told me to say "hello" to you. Ya know, burning people because of withccraft and whatnot. :rolleyes:
And even today, take a good look in the mirror. What are we fighting wars over these days? Religiuous fundamentalism and oil. Over a thing that promotes peace and serenity in the vast majority of it's incarnations and over a finite and obsoleted energy resource that pollutes the living environment. Don't be so fast to judge and think about it - by your principle if a vastly advanced species looks at us now, don't you think we'd be fulfilling some requirements for planetary anihilation as well?
What I'm saying is - keep an open mind, Trek. That's what it always was about.
Dude, I'm telling you that the Kazon are MORE STUPID than the stupidest mob minion in the middle ages. I'm saying that for a spacefaring species to be unable to acquire water save through attacking other species for their water supplies is indicative of many, many SERIOUS intellectual and cultural impediments to all forms of progress on the part of that species. This is more than one captain being mind-controlled by an Undine in disguise to kill a bunch of Romulans, this is an ENTIRE SPECIES that is fundamentally incapable of extracting water from asteroids and comets, finding a wet planet and setting up a filtration station or something, or even STEALING FREAKING REPLICATOR TECH FROM ONE OF THOSE SPECIES THEY ARE ATTACKING AT RANDOM and solving the problem permanently! That's not just dumb, that's fundamentally intellectually stagnated.
At least the Malon had the excuse of a plutocratic government sabotaging all attempts at progress on waste disposal. The Kazon have a fundamental inability to process and use the most basic of scientific concepts.
Plus, the Kazon idea of high strategy is to send a bunch of oversized, underpowered carriers up against a single medium cruiser in a haphazard wave. They needed a foreign adviser literally holding their hands EVERY STEP of the way to win, and even THEN they got beaten by TALAXIANS.
That's like being kicked in the fork by a Care Bear and being carried out of the ring in a cage match.
So what this boils down to is - you basically dislike VOY, therefore you have developed a stong bias when observing things from VOY and it's made you severely prejudiced towards the Kazon. Sorry if I sound like I pretend to know how you feel about the topic, but your previous discussions around the forum on Voyager, Janeway, Neelix and Talaxians have lead me to believe this. There's no other explanation as to how you waved off most of the stupid stuff I mentioned, a lot of which is far dumber than the Kazon were while retaining firmly your point that the Kazon are the stupidest thing human mind has invented.
I'm not saying the Kazon were not stupid. Kahless knows they were. But reading through this thread I started feeling like in a Dr.Who episode surrounded by Daleks. "Exterminate, exterminate!". I have no idea where one can pick up such hatred for a fictional species - espeically not evil ones, but rather dumb ones. It's also dissapointing for me to see Trek fans missing one of the main points of Star Trek so badly. So some of you would rather exterminate an entire species based on actions of few of them and personal observation of being stupid by your standards?
So what this boils down to is - you basically dislike VOY, therefore you have developed a stong bias when observing things from VOY and it's made you severely prejudiced towards the Kazon. Sorry if I sound like I pretend to know how you feel about the topic, but your previous discussions around the forum on Voyager, Janeway, Neelix and Talaxians have lead me to believe this. There's no other explanation as to how you waved off most of the stupid stuff I mentioned, a lot of which is far dumber than the Kazon were while retaining firmly your point that the Kazon are the stupidest thing human mind has invented.
I'm not saying the Kazon were not stupid. Kahless knows they were. But reading through this thread I started feeling like in a Dr.Who episode surrounded by Daleks. "Exterminate, exterminate!". I have no idea where one can pick up such hatred for a fictional species - espeically not evil ones, but rather dumb ones. It's also dissapointing for me to see Trek fans missing one of the main points of Star Trek so badly. So some of you would rather exterminate an entire species based on actions of few of them and personal observation of being stupid by your standards?
Yeah, you're completely off-base.
I hate Voyager BECAUSE of the stupid. I don't hate the stupid because of Voyager.
My problem is that the Kazon are so fundamentally stupid, and are repeatedly and explicitly stated to be so in canon, that it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to believe that they are the threat that they are stated to be. They are repeatedly and universally shown to be so far beyond mere stupidity that an entire new vocabulary is likely necessary to explain just how incredibly, congenitally, eternally moronic they are.
Credit where it's due, Voyager had some good points. Off the top of my head, "Jetrel" was an excellent episode that really gave Ethan Phillips the chance to flex his acting muscles, to wonderful and enjoyable effect. I actually LIKED Neelix in that episode. It didn't make up for the rest of the show, but it WAS a truly great episode.
The Doctor is a fun, enjoyable, likable, and well-acted character. Plus Robert Picardo is cool.
Tuvok is really good on the show, even if he gets shafted and ignored all the f*cking time, and Tim Russ is a seriously cool guy.
Seven of Nine, while hilariously oversexed, overused, and annoying, is an excellent portrayal of a character with symptoms similar to Asperger's Syndrome, which I found heartwarming when she wasn't being over-sexualized and Sue-ified to the point of absurdity. Plus Jeri Ryan's a better actress than they let her be.
Also, while "Tsunkatse" was frankly stupid, Hertzler and the Rock were epic, and the Jeff Combs cameo was nice.
I don't hate all of Voyager, all the time. I just hate the aspects of it that make me want to claw out my own brain.
Personally for KDF I would prefer Bentham or Vaadwaur .
I would love the Vaudwaar and since some of of them have split from the main group I don't see why it would not be possible. And I love their uniforms. Not sure about the Benthans however.
Fair enough. Anyway, my point was that if you can find it beliveable that a band of Romulan rebels, led by a questionable figure such as D'Tan can sucesfully wage a war against the RSE, Tal'Shiar and their allies (Hirogen, Elachi), establish a new homeworld, maintain and enlarge a warbird armada and even start leading joint alliance operations in far reaches of space - all in 1 year, then it's not so far fetched to believe that the Kazon may have advanced themselves during the last 40 years, especially after collaborating with Seska and getting a glimpse of Starfleet technology.
Shpoks you have to admit. It took a CARDASSIAN Operative for the Kazon to learn any kind of tactics that could overwhelm 1 damn Intrepid class ship.
Gimme a break. Kazon where intergalactic thugs who wouldn't know a good tactic if it walked up and SLAPPED them.
How they were so strong in the delta quadrant is beyond me. I guess quantity is a quality all it's own since there were plenty of cannon fodder to kill.
I mean I too like parts of voyager, I liked how they explored every character at some point. I really liked Chakotay's spiritualism, that was fun to watch. Yeah many hate on janeway, but I did like one thing about her. In the beginning she was a bit of an ice queen. But by the end, she'd move heaven and earth for that crew and sometimes she did. I will give here that.
But somethings I didn't like which many hated. Harry kim. SO UNDERSUSED! Perminate Ensign when he should of been a LT Cmdr by the end of the voyage then gotten that 2 rank promotion. Same with Tom Paris. Should of been a commander by that point.
Some good on Voyager, some REALLY BAD on voyager.
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Listen, I'm not saying the Kazon were not dumb, cause they were. Pretty much. All I'm saying is - keep open the possibility for them to picked up something during the last 40 years. And also that entire species don't deserve to be exterminated based on few examples of said species (I'll mention the RSE vs. RR example here and how it's generaly accepted in game that the Romulans we saw on air were not repreentative of the entire species) or because they're stupid.
Also consider the context that they were slaves to the Trabe for a long period of time, quite possibly kept at their level of knowledge and intellignece by the supressors so they can handle slaves easily. If someone enslaves 10.000 Humans, kill all the scholars and just leave the average joes to do physical labour, after several generations of slavery without any access to education, do you think those Humans will understand chemistry or how to synthesize water, etc, right off the bat? Yes, they're not the brightest bunch in space, but nowhere was it implied that they're genetically incapable of learning stuff in due time and slowly advancing themselves. They did free themselves from the Trabe after all.
I still want to know why the Klingons would let the Kazon into the empire. Klingons respect strength and honour, something the Kazon lack. The most notable thing they seemed to have gone is free themselves from the Trabe. You can't even say taking Voyager for a brief time was their doing, it took the help of Seska, a Cardassian agent and Jonas, a traitor on the inside of the ship to achieve.
Even if they have advanced, it is going to be small scale. The is no cooperating Trabe so each sect is going to be at a different point. The Klingon Empire and UFP meanwhile span hundreds of worlds each with many scientific institutions working within them to better each.
The Kazon don't even have resources to take or planets to subjugate, they are a nomadic people. As the Borg themselves have pointed out it is just not worth the effort. There are better worlds and smarter people to conquer.
Fair enough. Anyway, my point was that if you can find it beliveable that a band of Romulan rebels, led by a questionable figure such as D'Tan can sucesfully wage a war against the RSE, Tal'Shiar and their allies (Hirogen, Elachi), establish a new homeworld, maintain and enlarge a warbird armada and even start leading joint alliance operations in far reaches of space - all in 1 year, then it's not so far fetched to believe that the Kazon may have advanced themselves during the last 40 years, especially after collaborating with Seska and getting a glimpse of Starfleet technology.
But the Romulans were repeatedly shown to be an intelligent, adaptive species with a keen grasp of military tactics. After all, they held their own VERY well against the UFP AND the Klingons, even beat them a few times, despite having a smaller population and empire.
Plus the RR had SIGNIFICANT assistance from both the UFP and the Klingon Empire.
On top of that, the Kazon were NEVER ONCE shown to be anything but moronic, misogynistic, bloodthirsty thugs with no tactical ability whatsoever. They were beaten by the galactic equivalent of alcoholic Care Bears, for chrissake! There is simply no conceivable way that they could possible be a threat even if they DID have the IQ to replicate Starfleet tech (which they demonstrably didn't).
So what you guys are saying is that a group of game developers with no knowledge of Star Trek search some highlights of the franchise through wiki pages and create a game and their own story behind it. Then when confronted they search highlights of each series and write down the names of the episode then do an interview naming off these episode titles and say how dare you say we don't know Star Trek. Then another one of them with absolute lack of knowledge about the franchise then says the TR rifle is an exploit and should never have been able to do that in the game but yet at the same time shows the lack of knowledge of the series and as well disrespecting the franchise at the same time.
On this note though when one of the games that came out for the new reboot of JJ trek came out he basically said he would never endorse that game. As well in the same interview about the subject he stated how making/designing a game based off of a tv show or movie is doomed to fail. After that it was read between the lines because the producer and director role of a tv/movies is different from a game where as in a game they do not delve into story as much as the tv/movies would. So reading between the lines on this you could say that when it comes to a franchise the very well liked and successful ones keep their franchises canon as close to the vest as possible. Not to disrespect Cryptic but their priority isn't to keep this game Star Trek but because of how they do business but they are trying to push the game into a pure Cryptic verse where they pinch every 3 second clip where they would leave to the viewers imagination to fill those holes but yet with this game it forever pushes the game to where the only thing Star Trek about it is the label slapped on the game.
Wrong thread, buddy. This is the weekly Kazon Rage Thread, which isn't really a rage thread so much as a sprawling nerd debate; a classic example of the universe's most pointless exercise.
Wrong thread, buddy. This is the weekly Kazon Rage Thread, which isn't really a rage thread so much as a sprawling nerd debate; a classic example of the universe's most pointless exercise.
Yeah but it's entertaining! Who needs Saturday Night Live when ya got this? :cool:
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So what you guys are saying is that a group of game developers with no knowledge of Star Trek search some highlights of the franchise through wiki pages and create a game and their own story behind it. Then when confronted they search highlights of each series and write down the names of the episode then do an interview naming off these episode titles and say how dare you say we don't know Star Trek. Then another one of them with absolute lack of knowledge about the franchise then says the TR rifle is an exploit and should never have been able to do that in the game but yet at the same time shows the lack of knowledge of the series and as well disrespecting the franchise at the same time.
On this note though when one of the games that came out for the new reboot of JJ trek came out he basically said he would never endorse that game. As well in the same interview about the subject he stated how making/designing a game based off of a tv show or movie is doomed to fail. After that it was read between the lines because the producer and director role of a tv/movies is different from a game where as in a game they do not delve into story as much as the tv/movies would. So reading between the lines on this you could say that when it comes to a franchise the very well liked and successful ones keep their franchises canon as close to the vest as possible. Not to disrespect Cryptic but their priority isn't to keep this game Star Trek but because of how they do business but they are trying to push the game into a pure Cryptic verse where they pinch every 3 second clip where they would leave to the viewers imagination to fill those holes but yet with this game it forever pushes the game to where the only thing Star Trek about it is the label slapped on the game.
Are you sure you're in the right thread?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
And yet somehow the Kazon still lost against the Talaxians.
SHAZAM! Just goes to show, all balls, no brains won't win TRIBBLE. Talaxians are like no offense pot heads of the delta quadrant.
Lazy, but probably the best practical engineers around. Give them an issue they are energetic about like a pot head trying to figure out how to smoke it with some of the most random stuff around, they will find a way.
Much like Talaxians.
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Oh, man, the Enterprise could've taken out the entire Kazon species without breaking a sweat...
Worf: Sir, more Kazon are incoming. They are firing weapons.
Picard: Again? Why do they keep attacking us? Alright, fire at will, Mr. Worf.
Worf: Thank you, sir.
*Worf fires everything*
*The Kazon explode*
Worf, 30 seconds later: Sir, even MORE Kazon are incoming. They are firing weapons.
Picard: OK, f*ck this, they clearly aren't interested in diplomacy. Kill them all and come get me when they want to talk. I have personnel reports to deal with.
Worf: With pleasure, sir.
*Five hours of constant attack later, the Kazon species is extinct*
I agree with shadowfang240. It would never happen because Picard would surrender rather than fight. It seems to be a clich
I will end with Shpok's comment. This is Trek. It is about exploring other cultures, and in doing so, gain a better understanding of ourselves. And that was the purpose of my comment about a dynamic, complex, and nuanced opponent as it makes us work for our victory rather than simply putting a disruptor bolt into someone's back in order to win.
No it isn't, it is a false mirror that bears only skin deep resemblance to Star Trek.
And why should we KDF be forced to suffer the Kazon? Give them to the Feds, we deserve better.
I agree with shadowfang240. It would never happen because Picard would surrender rather than fight. It seems to be a clich
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
And that makes Picard a bloody idiot. Stupid pretentious jackass would rather get himself and everyone under his command killed to score some pointless moral victory than do his damn job.
A, Crips and Bloods are not representative of the sum total of humanity, or even a statistically significant fraction of it. Kazon sects are.
B, you can frankly forget the social commentary aspects of Star Trek when you're talking about how things work in-universe.
C, even the writers admitted the gang-bangers analogy pretty much failed and they ended up with a crappy knockoff of the Klingons.
Not worth the Klingons' effort. They're not the uplifters. That's the Federation.
Because the Nausicaans actually understand fundamental science, as evidenced by they them not fighting wars over basic compounds such as water (not oil on Earth, water in space, again, ridiculously common as a naturally occurring substance), and military tactics, as evidenced by they can take you one on one without a Cardassian helping them.
And again, you're not going to get a dynamic, complex or nuanced opponent from the Kazon. You're going to get a bunch of morons with bad hair.
Actually Picard would not surrender. He almost never did. Granted he tried all diplomatic attempts first, but when he needed to get in the mud and blood, Picard was right there swinging, or do I need to point out First Contact? (fun fact, after doing that movie, Patrick Stewart who LOVES Moby **** actually did play Ahab in an A&E movie).
No when push comes to shove, Picard definitely SHOVES.
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And that makes Picard a bloody idiot. Stupid pretentious jackass would rather get himself and everyone under his command killed to score some pointless moral victory than do his damn job.
Now, now starswordc, please show us on this dolly where the evul Picard touched you.
Actually Picard would not surrender. He almost never did. Granted he tried all diplomatic attempts first, but when he needed to get in the mud and blood, Picard was right there swinging, or do I need to point out First Contact? (fun fact, after doing that movie, Patrick Stewart who LOVES Moby **** actually did play Ahab in an A&E movie).
No when push comes to shove, Picard definitely SHOVES.
Yeah, that's Picard AFTER "The Best of Both Worlds". Pre-Borg Picard is the pretentious moron who lowers his shields with an enemy warship in weapons range and then acts all surprised when they try to capitalize on his stupidity.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Yeah, that's Picard AFTER "The Best of Both Worlds". Pre-Borg Picard is the pretentious moron who lowers his shields with an enemy warship in weapons range and then acts all surprised when they try to capitalize on his stupidity.
In Picard's defense, TNG season 1 and most of the first half of season 2 were both kind of bad.
*points to "Code of Honor" or whatever that terrible episode with the space Africans was, "Justice", and the one where Yar screwed Data and he made that awful joke about his masculinity*
Yeah, that's Picard AFTER "The Best of Both Worlds". Pre-Borg Picard is the pretentious moron who lowers his shields with an enemy warship in weapons range and then acts all surprised when they try to capitalize on his stupidity.
I call that bad writing. Sorry got way better in the 3rd season, though best captain will always IMHO be Sisko.
Punched Q in the face then said "I'm not Picard." Priceless.
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Comments
In STO terms, I can list you a 100 things that are 1.000.000 times more stupid than the Kazon.
And out of STO terms, mankind used to be dumber idiots than the Kazon. Arguably, a strong portion still is. Just saying.
List 'em.
Also, wrong. Never in human society has there been a society MORE stupid than the Kazon, and I'm including the Massachusetts Bay Colony and TRIBBLE Germany in that. I'm including NORTH FREAKING KOREA in that.
The Kazon are fundamentally more stupid than North Korea, the most absurd religious fundamentalists ever, and one of the top 5 most evil governments ever. They fight wars over WATER, a substance that by their level of technology they SHOULD be able to refine and even replicate with ease. Seriously, if nothing else they can just shoot a planet until its atmosphere catches fire and come back later to pick up the condensed water from the oxygen/hydrogen reactions. And they can't even think of THAT.
2. Voth using dinosaurs with friggin' laz0rz on their head in a Dyson Sphere
3. Alliance between the Klingon Empire and the Orion Syndicate
4. Aliance between the Klingon Empire and random Nausicaan pirate clans
5. Ongoing war between the Federation and the Klingon Empire, while KDF warriors are permitted to use DS9 and land on Bajor, a Federation member world.
6. Tholian ships used by Starfleet/KDF
7. Undine ships used by Starfleet/KDF
8. Cardassia is in turmoil 40 years after the DW, time spent under the protection of the Federation while the Romulan Republic set on a backwater world manages to go from guerila rebels to a fully fledged fleet od Scimitars 1 year after a total civil war.
9. Player characters spending an entire story arc telling Obisek how "thalaron is bad, m'mkay?" and that it's a "weapon for cowards", then turn around and buy a Thalaron equiped Scimitar themselves.
10. Starfleet Officers receiving orders and an entire story arc from Section 31
11. 3-rd Borg Dynasty
Need I really go on...?
Also the dark ages told me to say "hello" to you. Ya know, burning people because of withccraft and whatnot. :rolleyes:
And even today, take a good look in the mirror. What are we fighting wars over these days? Religiuous fundamentalism and oil. Over a thing that promotes peace and serenity in the vast majority of it's incarnations and over a finite and obsoleted energy resource that pollutes the living environment. Don't be so fast to judge and think about it - by your principle if a vastly advanced species looks at us now, don't you think we'd be fulfilling some requirements for planetary anihilation as well?
What I'm saying is - keep an open mind, Trek. That's what it always was about.
Dude, I'm telling you that the Kazon are MORE STUPID than the stupidest mob minion in the middle ages. I'm saying that for a spacefaring species to be unable to acquire water save through attacking other species for their water supplies is indicative of many, many SERIOUS intellectual and cultural impediments to all forms of progress on the part of that species. This is more than one captain being mind-controlled by an Undine in disguise to kill a bunch of Romulans, this is an ENTIRE SPECIES that is fundamentally incapable of extracting water from asteroids and comets, finding a wet planet and setting up a filtration station or something, or even STEALING FREAKING REPLICATOR TECH FROM ONE OF THOSE SPECIES THEY ARE ATTACKING AT RANDOM and solving the problem permanently! That's not just dumb, that's fundamentally intellectually stagnated.
At least the Malon had the excuse of a plutocratic government sabotaging all attempts at progress on waste disposal. The Kazon have a fundamental inability to process and use the most basic of scientific concepts.
Plus, the Kazon idea of high strategy is to send a bunch of oversized, underpowered carriers up against a single medium cruiser in a haphazard wave. They needed a foreign adviser literally holding their hands EVERY STEP of the way to win, and even THEN they got beaten by TALAXIANS.
That's like being kicked in the fork by a Care Bear and being carried out of the ring in a cage match.
I'm not saying the Kazon were not stupid. Kahless knows they were. But reading through this thread I started feeling like in a Dr.Who episode surrounded by Daleks. "Exterminate, exterminate!". I have no idea where one can pick up such hatred for a fictional species - espeically not evil ones, but rather dumb ones. It's also dissapointing for me to see Trek fans missing one of the main points of Star Trek so badly. So some of you would rather exterminate an entire species based on actions of few of them and personal observation of being stupid by your standards?
Yeah, you're completely off-base.
I hate Voyager BECAUSE of the stupid. I don't hate the stupid because of Voyager.
My problem is that the Kazon are so fundamentally stupid, and are repeatedly and explicitly stated to be so in canon, that it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to believe that they are the threat that they are stated to be. They are repeatedly and universally shown to be so far beyond mere stupidity that an entire new vocabulary is likely necessary to explain just how incredibly, congenitally, eternally moronic they are.
Credit where it's due, Voyager had some good points. Off the top of my head, "Jetrel" was an excellent episode that really gave Ethan Phillips the chance to flex his acting muscles, to wonderful and enjoyable effect. I actually LIKED Neelix in that episode. It didn't make up for the rest of the show, but it WAS a truly great episode.
The Doctor is a fun, enjoyable, likable, and well-acted character. Plus Robert Picardo is cool.
Tuvok is really good on the show, even if he gets shafted and ignored all the f*cking time, and Tim Russ is a seriously cool guy.
Seven of Nine, while hilariously oversexed, overused, and annoying, is an excellent portrayal of a character with symptoms similar to Asperger's Syndrome, which I found heartwarming when she wasn't being over-sexualized and Sue-ified to the point of absurdity. Plus Jeri Ryan's a better actress than they let her be.
Also, while "Tsunkatse" was frankly stupid, Hertzler and the Rock were epic, and the Jeff Combs cameo was nice.
I don't hate all of Voyager, all the time. I just hate the aspects of it that make me want to claw out my own brain.
I would love the Vaudwaar and since some of of them have split from the main group I don't see why it would not be possible. And I love their uniforms. Not sure about the Benthans however.
Gimme a break. Kazon where intergalactic thugs who wouldn't know a good tactic if it walked up and SLAPPED them.
How they were so strong in the delta quadrant is beyond me. I guess quantity is a quality all it's own since there were plenty of cannon fodder to kill.
I mean I too like parts of voyager, I liked how they explored every character at some point. I really liked Chakotay's spiritualism, that was fun to watch. Yeah many hate on janeway, but I did like one thing about her. In the beginning she was a bit of an ice queen. But by the end, she'd move heaven and earth for that crew and sometimes she did. I will give here that.
But somethings I didn't like which many hated. Harry kim. SO UNDERSUSED! Perminate Ensign when he should of been a LT Cmdr by the end of the voyage then gotten that 2 rank promotion. Same with Tom Paris. Should of been a commander by that point.
Some good on Voyager, some REALLY BAD on voyager.
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Also consider the context that they were slaves to the Trabe for a long period of time, quite possibly kept at their level of knowledge and intellignece by the supressors so they can handle slaves easily. If someone enslaves 10.000 Humans, kill all the scholars and just leave the average joes to do physical labour, after several generations of slavery without any access to education, do you think those Humans will understand chemistry or how to synthesize water, etc, right off the bat? Yes, they're not the brightest bunch in space, but nowhere was it implied that they're genetically incapable of learning stuff in due time and slowly advancing themselves. They did free themselves from the Trabe after all.
Even if they have advanced, it is going to be small scale. The is no cooperating Trabe so each sect is going to be at a different point. The Klingon Empire and UFP meanwhile span hundreds of worlds each with many scientific institutions working within them to better each.
The Kazon don't even have resources to take or planets to subjugate, they are a nomadic people. As the Borg themselves have pointed out it is just not worth the effort. There are better worlds and smarter people to conquer.
But the Romulans were repeatedly shown to be an intelligent, adaptive species with a keen grasp of military tactics. After all, they held their own VERY well against the UFP AND the Klingons, even beat them a few times, despite having a smaller population and empire.
Plus the RR had SIGNIFICANT assistance from both the UFP and the Klingon Empire.
On top of that, the Kazon were NEVER ONCE shown to be anything but moronic, misogynistic, bloodthirsty thugs with no tactical ability whatsoever. They were beaten by the galactic equivalent of alcoholic Care Bears, for chrissake! There is simply no conceivable way that they could possible be a threat even if they DID have the IQ to replicate Starfleet tech (which they demonstrably didn't).
Indeed. Most of them are drunk, lazy slackers with no work ethic, no discipline, and terrible cooking skills and personal habits.
Neelix at least tries to be useful. Other Talaxians don't even make that much effort.
On this note though when one of the games that came out for the new reboot of JJ trek came out he basically said he would never endorse that game. As well in the same interview about the subject he stated how making/designing a game based off of a tv show or movie is doomed to fail. After that it was read between the lines because the producer and director role of a tv/movies is different from a game where as in a game they do not delve into story as much as the tv/movies would. So reading between the lines on this you could say that when it comes to a franchise the very well liked and successful ones keep their franchises canon as close to the vest as possible. Not to disrespect Cryptic but their priority isn't to keep this game Star Trek but because of how they do business but they are trying to push the game into a pure Cryptic verse where they pinch every 3 second clip where they would leave to the viewers imagination to fill those holes but yet with this game it forever pushes the game to where the only thing Star Trek about it is the label slapped on the game.
Wrong thread, buddy. This is the weekly Kazon Rage Thread, which isn't really a rage thread so much as a sprawling nerd debate; a classic example of the universe's most pointless exercise.
Yeah but it's entertaining! Who needs Saturday Night Live when ya got this? :cool:
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Yes, I was flabbergasted when I read that.
And yet somehow the Kazon still lost against the Talaxians.
SHAZAM! Just goes to show, all balls, no brains won't win TRIBBLE. Talaxians are like no offense pot heads of the delta quadrant.
Lazy, but probably the best practical engineers around. Give them an issue they are energetic about like a pot head trying to figure out how to smoke it with some of the most random stuff around, they will find a way.
Much like Talaxians.
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I agree with shadowfang240. It would never happen because Picard would surrender rather than fight. It seems to be a clich
No it isn't, it is a false mirror that bears only skin deep resemblance to Star Trek.
And why should we KDF be forced to suffer the Kazon? Give them to the Feds, we deserve better.
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Actually Picard would not surrender. He almost never did. Granted he tried all diplomatic attempts first, but when he needed to get in the mud and blood, Picard was right there swinging, or do I need to point out First Contact? (fun fact, after doing that movie, Patrick Stewart who LOVES Moby **** actually did play Ahab in an A&E movie).
No when push comes to shove, Picard definitely SHOVES.
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Now, now starswordc, please show us on this dolly where the evul Picard touched you.
Yeah, that's Picard AFTER "The Best of Both Worlds". Pre-Borg Picard is the pretentious moron who lowers his shields with an enemy warship in weapons range and then acts all surprised when they try to capitalize on his stupidity.
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In Picard's defense, TNG season 1 and most of the first half of season 2 were both kind of bad.
*points to "Code of Honor" or whatever that terrible episode with the space Africans was, "Justice", and the one where Yar screwed Data and he made that awful joke about his masculinity*
I call that bad writing. Sorry got way better in the 3rd season, though best captain will always IMHO be Sisko.
Punched Q in the face then said "I'm not Picard." Priceless.
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