There's a lines from the doctor in the new bonus episode that shows they have been reading this thread or atleast one similar. I think it is most likely the best thing about DR is the snarky comments from the doctor while you are doing the mission lol.
I know I go on rants a lot but in all seriousness while I'm in good spirits lol. There could actually be a plot window with this to make a KDF Kazon story arc that could fit the marauding aspect/klingon aspects we all know and love from the series. The window I see is how when the KDF conquers or helps to conquer a region of space or some empire out there. They could have one of the sects or a combination of them form a task force that allows the Kazon to take all the assets the Trabe if I spelled it right and basically absorbed into the empire to expand its reach.
I could see Cryptic using this and maybe building some concurrent with the federation and the romulan republic with other factions of the DR/delta quadrant and releasing some new T6 ships that somewhat are built for long term engagements in the delta quadrant being these kind of ships wouldn't be counted for the assets needed in securing alpha quadrant threats to not over extend into the delta quadrant like j'mpok voiced about in one of the DR missions if I remember right. Biggest problem I've had with DR though is the trend that continued with it with the KDF about unused potential like this unless they already had something planned down the road like this but most likely if anything will be years before we find out.
Speaking as a romulan first and a Fed second, do you guys really want the Kazon? To quote the doctor, not even the Borg assimilate Kazon... and they assimilate talaxians for God's sake.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
My remarks on the Kazon are based entirely on their portrayal in VOY, i.e. their canon portrayal. I haven't even looked at their portrayal in STO yet because my computer was getting its hard drive replaced when DR dropped and I spent the next week either working full-time or getting all my software put back together from backup.
No, no.....the whole discussion about the 'proof' you quoted a page or two ago was not about the Kazon, but a heated discussion between me and worffan about STO being considered canon or not. That part was not about the Kazon, it just got derailed like that at a certain point.
But lets leave that particular discussion to die since it has derailed the thread long enough, this has been about the Kazon first and foremost as the OP intended.
There is literally no reason whatsoever that a spacefaring species with FTL and easy access to class-M planets should NEED to attack other species' starships for water. NONE.
As I recall, Neelix said EVERYONE in that particular sector required water, and that water was particularly scarce IN THE ENTIRE SECTOR. Granted that is within only a few light years span, but when you lack replicator tech, it becomes the diamond-water paradox.
As I recall, Neelix said EVERYONE in that particular sector required water, and that water was particularly scarce IN THE ENTIRE SECTOR. Granted that is within only a few light years span, but when you lack replicator tech, it becomes the diamond-water paradox.
So? Warp ships can move across light-years in what, a couple of days?
Plus the Kazon used the same excuse for attacking across thousands of light-years of space.
On top of that, even if liquid water were scarce, it is stupidly easy to synthesize even with 20th-century tech.
The Kazon are STILL absurdly stupid. And not worth anyone's time except as target practice.
Well in all fairness with that canon info you do have to remember they were basically mere slaves to the trabe so their culture is very young too. Pretty much I doubt the trabe were teaching them about things the academy teaches or pretty much only thing to do manual labor. So really they are just like a younger version of the Klingon empire its just they started out doing the same thing pretty much. Its just that the Klingon Empire has had many many centuries to bring themselves to what they are now.
However I could see them having some of the reoccurring cardassian role characters like Garak doing VO's where we could take him to his mothers home planet and see a second dominion war over it lol with the cryptic verse style added in "insert iconian masterminds who will then be revealed and then another group is added to the alliance".
IMO the Kazon seem like a more natural fit for the KDF than some of the existing KDF species like the Trill, Orions & Gorn.
The Kazon really aren't a fit for Klingons. Maybe in plenty of centuries for them to become a bit less terrible, but right now they should be given to the Feds.
Trill - Cryptic wanted Trill Fed only, but had to make them KDF as well because of legal stuff.
IMO the Kazon seem like a more natural fit for the KDF than some of the existing KDF species like the Trill, Orions & Gorn.
Trill were because legal stuff or something.
Orions are reasonably intelligent, ruthless, sneaky, and vicious. A good counterpoint to the Klingon warrior badassdom.
The Gorn are strong. Really, really strong. And dangerously smart on top of that. They gave the Klinks a good fight during the battle for Gornar, and Slathis won an honor duel against Jm'pok (or at least gave a really good showing). That is more than enough to earn the Klingons' respect.
Nausicaans and Letheans add more canny muscle and useful telepaths, respectively, both assets to the empire.
Ferasans add more telepaths--again, asset.
The Kazon? No military skill, no combat ability, ridiculously backwards society, repeated and canonical idiocy, no noticeable skills or potential for improvement as anything but cannon fodder.
And the Klingons aren't really the sort to use canon fodder. If you earn a Klingon's respect to the point he lets you fight by his side, he's not going to use you as cheap bait for the enemy.
So yeah. Let the Feds have the Kazon, they deserve 'em.
The Kazon? No military skill, no combat ability, ridiculously backwards society, repeated and canonical idiocy, no noticeable skills or potential for improvement as anything but cannon fodder.
And the Klingons aren't really the sort to use canon fodder. If you earn a Klingon's respect to the point he lets you fight by his side, he's not going to use you as cheap bait for the enemy.
.
And even if we did use Kazon as cannon fodder, we wouldn't as they couldn't even do that successfully.
I haven't even looked at their portrayal in STO yet because my computer was getting its hard drive replaced when DR dropped and I spent the next week either working full-time or getting all my software put back together from backup..
Is that why you've been absent from TS lately? I was wondering if you'd been in a coma or something. Can you go on TS on Friday, maybe?
The Kazon really aren't a fit for Klingons. Maybe in plenty of centuries for them to become a bit less terrible, but right now they should be given to the Feds.
Trill - Cryptic wanted Trill Fed only, but had to make them KDF as well because of legal stuff.
Orions - Alliance of mutual benefit.
Gorn - You question the value of these reptiles?
The Federation doesn't want the smelly, idiotic TRIBBLE with Giorgio Tsoukalos hairdos and odd notions on how to run prisons.
About the only thing they would be good for is live fire exercises for first year Academy cadets in training shuttles.
Let them stay in their own little ****hole of space.
STO dev's once said on a podcast that years ago that they've consider adding talaxians and ocompans to the Feds and add the Kanzons for the KDF as playable races when the game expands into the Delta Quadrant... i guess those ideas are scrapped except for the Talaxians part.
As for the Kazons being allies to the Klingon Empire, i don't see that happening due to the Kazons being mostly xenophobic and territorial... same could be said of the Klingons which is not true since they're more open minded when it comes to intergalatic species relations.
If anyone would be the best fit for allying with the Klingon Empire it would be the Vaadwuar... both are militaristic and both have their codes of honor but one thing they don't have in common from my impression on VOY that the Vaadwuar are more a backstabbing type of race while the Klingons are more upfront... and back to the Vaadwuar being backstabbers, which is understandable due to Janeways refusal to give weapons to the Vaadwuar to protect themselfs from one of the spcies that was trying to exterminate them hundreds of years ago and return to finish the job. Also we have to keep in mind that the Vaadwuar in terms of technolgy were alot more inferior to the Kazons.
Last note on the Vaadwuar... If the Klingon Empire and the Federation were still at war a unique KDF storyline would be nice where the Klingon Empire supporting the Vaadwuar to help it stop Federation influences and expansion into the delta quadrant.
Now on the part of the Kazons being completely incompetent... i think that false. When Voyager first arrived on the Delta quardrant it's been incited by many races that Voyager is the most powerful ship in that region of space which indacates that many species in that area along with the Kazons are technoglically inferior including the Talaxians, Haakonians, etc. also i will point out that the Kazons were united as one when they overthrown and defeated the more technogically advanced Trabes which fled from whats used to be their own space afterwards... and with the Kazons toke many of their ships and weapons for their own needs, also if the Kazons were technogically incompented, how are they able to manned & piloit the Trabe ships they've captured? obvisously it takes spacefaring knowledge to fly them.
Last note on the Kazons in DR... i think the Kazons should have a Genghis Khan storyline to it, where all the Kazons sects united once again this time under the Kazon-Nistrim to make a united Kazon Empire lead by Jul Culluh amd then by his and Seska Son... over 30 years have past since the Voyager encounter which is alot of time to improve their technolgy for them to prepare for a future potential enemy that have the technolgy thats comparable to Voyager, if not made due to their lack of own inventions but rather from salvaging, copying or stealing technolgy from other races to improve their ships which they're atleast good at that. i think a Kazon Empire would have been a potentially be a good Non-Iconian align NPC enemy faction looking to expand their territories... even though they will be in technolgy terms still inferior to KDF, Fed and Roms but their numbers would make up for that in game terms.
I can do without the Kazons and I especially do not want them to be part of my beloved KDF. However, I'm sure there are tens of players that are enjoying their Talaxian toons... Devs on crack again. :rolleyes:
Not just a more klingon empire specific story arc, how about some of these updates they've been doing since delta rising include something for klingons and klingon allied romulans. All ive seen is new starfleet ships, new starfleet ship bridges, new story arc with nothing but starfleet involved, and now a club that only starfleet people can even enter.
I had a similar thought some time ago - that we should get foundry authors to organize and cooperate for creating some authentic and cohesive KDF storylines that would keep KDF players engaged and immersed in the nature of the faction as they should, since obviously the official conent will be a light digest for any faction that is not Federation.
A collaboration with Foundry Authors would definitely be great. It would be like your the actual dev's of the game but aren't so racist towards anyone in the Klingon Empire. I think that would be awesome to have.
Actually, the Vaadwaur are more similar to the Klingons than the Kazon are. The Kazon are inept and stupid. I'd rather see playable Vaadwaur for the Empire, and see the Empire and Vaadwaur become allies. The Vaadwaur without Gaul are warriors with honor, much like Klingons.
The best allies from the Delta Quadrant?
For FED: Talaxians- space gypsies and clowns fit perfect to Federation
Benthans- because self-appointed Fed policemans can not be everywhere
For KDF: Vaadwaur- warriors and conquerors
Hazari - quality guns for hire
For RR: the Hierarchy- cloak and dagger, same as good old romulans
Devore- they look like romulan offshoot from DQ
And Kazon? no , maybe for Mad Max
Hirogen? degenerated hunters, no
Krenim? no, they do not have a time
Malon? nobody likes their stinking ships (even Malon system in cardassian space
Quarrans? work for everyone sounds good, if the Iconians refer them as the no.1 threat of shame we not get in a delta rising, instead Kobal zone we should get Quarran work zone where we should grinding from morning to evening for minimal reward
The Swarm? they are hidden somewhere
Viidians vs Kobali vs So'na? still not enough organ donors
Comments
I know I go on rants a lot but in all seriousness while I'm in good spirits lol. There could actually be a plot window with this to make a KDF Kazon story arc that could fit the marauding aspect/klingon aspects we all know and love from the series. The window I see is how when the KDF conquers or helps to conquer a region of space or some empire out there. They could have one of the sects or a combination of them form a task force that allows the Kazon to take all the assets the Trabe if I spelled it right and basically absorbed into the empire to expand its reach.
I could see Cryptic using this and maybe building some concurrent with the federation and the romulan republic with other factions of the DR/delta quadrant and releasing some new T6 ships that somewhat are built for long term engagements in the delta quadrant being these kind of ships wouldn't be counted for the assets needed in securing alpha quadrant threats to not over extend into the delta quadrant like j'mpok voiced about in one of the DR missions if I remember right. Biggest problem I've had with DR though is the trend that continued with it with the KDF about unused potential like this unless they already had something planned down the road like this but most likely if anything will be years before we find out.
Not to say any Fed member race is actually that bad, just the principle.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
No, no.....the whole discussion about the 'proof' you quoted a page or two ago was not about the Kazon, but a heated discussion between me and worffan about STO being considered canon or not. That part was not about the Kazon, it just got derailed like that at a certain point.
But lets leave that particular discussion to die since it has derailed the thread long enough, this has been about the Kazon first and foremost as the OP intended.
As I recall, Neelix said EVERYONE in that particular sector required water, and that water was particularly scarce IN THE ENTIRE SECTOR. Granted that is within only a few light years span, but when you lack replicator tech, it becomes the diamond-water paradox.
http://education-portal.com/academy/lesson/diamond-water-paradox-in-economics-definition-examples.html#lesson
http://www.amosweb.com/cgi-bin/awb_nav.pl?s=wpd&c=dsp&k=diamond-water+paradox
http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/library/chart-graph/water-diamond-paradox
So? Warp ships can move across light-years in what, a couple of days?
Plus the Kazon used the same excuse for attacking across thousands of light-years of space.
On top of that, even if liquid water were scarce, it is stupidly easy to synthesize even with 20th-century tech.
The Kazon are STILL absurdly stupid. And not worth anyone's time except as target practice.
Well in all fairness with that canon info you do have to remember they were basically mere slaves to the trabe so their culture is very young too. Pretty much I doubt the trabe were teaching them about things the academy teaches or pretty much only thing to do manual labor. So really they are just like a younger version of the Klingon empire its just they started out doing the same thing pretty much. Its just that the Klingon Empire has had many many centuries to bring themselves to what they are now.
However I could see them having some of the reoccurring cardassian role characters like Garak doing VO's where we could take him to his mothers home planet and see a second dominion war over it lol with the cryptic verse style added in "insert iconian masterminds who will then be revealed and then another group is added to the alliance".
Warp 6 (TNG/DS9/VOY/STO Scale) is just over one light year per day, warp 9 is just over 4 light years per day.
Essentially, you cannot blame distance for lack of water for warp capable species.
He's a SHAPESHIFTER GET HIM!!!
LOL!!! Your right! He's a trike(tripod undine terrorist)!
Well, if the KDF would take anyone, they would take Vaadwaur.
The Kazon really aren't a fit for Klingons. Maybe in plenty of centuries for them to become a bit less terrible, but right now they should be given to the Feds.
Trill - Cryptic wanted Trill Fed only, but had to make them KDF as well because of legal stuff.
Orions - Alliance of mutual benefit.
Gorn - You question the value of these reptiles?
Trill were because legal stuff or something.
Orions are reasonably intelligent, ruthless, sneaky, and vicious. A good counterpoint to the Klingon warrior badassdom.
The Gorn are strong. Really, really strong. And dangerously smart on top of that. They gave the Klinks a good fight during the battle for Gornar, and Slathis won an honor duel against Jm'pok (or at least gave a really good showing). That is more than enough to earn the Klingons' respect.
Nausicaans and Letheans add more canny muscle and useful telepaths, respectively, both assets to the empire.
Ferasans add more telepaths--again, asset.
The Kazon? No military skill, no combat ability, ridiculously backwards society, repeated and canonical idiocy, no noticeable skills or potential for improvement as anything but cannon fodder.
And the Klingons aren't really the sort to use canon fodder. If you earn a Klingon's respect to the point he lets you fight by his side, he's not going to use you as cheap bait for the enemy.
So yeah. Let the Feds have the Kazon, they deserve 'em.
And even if we did use Kazon as cannon fodder, we wouldn't as they couldn't even do that successfully.
Is that why you've been absent from TS lately? I was wondering if you'd been in a coma or something. Can you go on TS on Friday, maybe?
Yeah, cannon fodder is basically cheap light tanks...the Kazon are cheap, but they aren't light and they can't tank for sh*t.
Pretty much.
The Federation doesn't want the smelly, idiotic TRIBBLE with Giorgio Tsoukalos hairdos and odd notions on how to run prisons.
About the only thing they would be good for is live fire exercises for first year Academy cadets in training shuttles.
Let them stay in their own little ****hole of space.
As for the Kazons being allies to the Klingon Empire, i don't see that happening due to the Kazons being mostly xenophobic and territorial... same could be said of the Klingons which is not true since they're more open minded when it comes to intergalatic species relations.
If anyone would be the best fit for allying with the Klingon Empire it would be the Vaadwuar... both are militaristic and both have their codes of honor but one thing they don't have in common from my impression on VOY that the Vaadwuar are more a backstabbing type of race while the Klingons are more upfront... and back to the Vaadwuar being backstabbers, which is understandable due to Janeways refusal to give weapons to the Vaadwuar to protect themselfs from one of the spcies that was trying to exterminate them hundreds of years ago and return to finish the job. Also we have to keep in mind that the Vaadwuar in terms of technolgy were alot more inferior to the Kazons.
Last note on the Vaadwuar... If the Klingon Empire and the Federation were still at war a unique KDF storyline would be nice where the Klingon Empire supporting the Vaadwuar to help it stop Federation influences and expansion into the delta quadrant.
Now on the part of the Kazons being completely incompetent... i think that false. When Voyager first arrived on the Delta quardrant it's been incited by many races that Voyager is the most powerful ship in that region of space which indacates that many species in that area along with the Kazons are technoglically inferior including the Talaxians, Haakonians, etc. also i will point out that the Kazons were united as one when they overthrown and defeated the more technogically advanced Trabes which fled from whats used to be their own space afterwards... and with the Kazons toke many of their ships and weapons for their own needs, also if the Kazons were technogically incompented, how are they able to manned & piloit the Trabe ships they've captured? obvisously it takes spacefaring knowledge to fly them.
Last note on the Kazons in DR... i think the Kazons should have a Genghis Khan storyline to it, where all the Kazons sects united once again this time under the Kazon-Nistrim to make a united Kazon Empire lead by Jul Culluh amd then by his and Seska Son... over 30 years have past since the Voyager encounter which is alot of time to improve their technolgy for them to prepare for a future potential enemy that have the technolgy thats comparable to Voyager, if not made due to their lack of own inventions but rather from salvaging, copying or stealing technolgy from other races to improve their ships which they're atleast good at that. i think a Kazon Empire would have been a potentially be a good Non-Iconian align NPC enemy faction looking to expand their territories... even though they will be in technolgy terms still inferior to KDF, Fed and Roms but their numbers would make up for that in game terms.
Problem is tha tCryptic can only develop ONE faction and it is very clear for a logn time that the Federation will get 90 % of the good stuff.
The Devs put KDF on the slow road to die out a long time ago, and it works
I cant wait for the ceasefire to end.
A collaboration with Foundry Authors would definitely be great. It would be like your the actual dev's of the game but aren't so racist towards anyone in the Klingon Empire. I think that would be awesome to have.
For FED: Talaxians- space gypsies and clowns fit perfect to Federation
Benthans- because self-appointed Fed policemans can not be everywhere
For KDF: Vaadwaur- warriors and conquerors
Hazari - quality guns for hire
For RR: the Hierarchy- cloak and dagger, same as good old romulans
Devore- they look like romulan offshoot from DQ
And Kazon? no , maybe for Mad Max
Hirogen? degenerated hunters, no
Krenim? no, they do not have a time
Malon? nobody likes their stinking ships (even Malon system in cardassian space
Quarrans? work for everyone sounds good, if the Iconians refer them as the no.1 threat of shame we not get in a delta rising, instead Kobal zone we should get Quarran work zone where we should grinding from morning to evening for minimal reward
The Swarm? they are hidden somewhere
Viidians vs Kobali vs So'na? still not enough organ donors