And that makes Picard a bloody idiot. Stupid pretentious jackass would rather get himself and everyone under his command killed to score some pointless moral victory than do his damn job.
A, Crips and Bloods are not representative of the sum total of humanity, or even a statistically significant fraction of it. Kazon sects are.
B, you can frankly forget the social commentary aspects of Star Trek when you're talking about how things work in-universe.
C, even the writers admitted the gang-bangers analogy pretty much failed and they ended up with a crappy knockoff of the Klingons.
Not worth the Klingons' effort. They're not the uplifters. That's the Federation.
Because the Nausicaans actually understand fundamental science, as evidenced by they them not fighting wars over basic compounds such as water (not oil on Earth, water in space, again, ridiculously common as a naturally occurring substance), and military tactics, as evidenced by they can take you one on one without a Cardassian helping them.
And again, you're not going to get a dynamic, complex or nuanced opponent from the Kazon. You're going to get a bunch of morons with bad hair.
Actually Picard would not surrender. He almost never did. Granted he tried all diplomatic attempts first, but when he needed to get in the mud and blood, Picard was right there swinging, or do I need to point out First Contact? (fun fact, after doing that movie, Patrick Stewart who LOVES Moby **** actually did play Ahab in an A&E movie).
No when push comes to shove, Picard definitely SHOVES.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
And that makes Picard a bloody idiot. Stupid pretentious jackass would rather get himself and everyone under his command killed to score some pointless moral victory than do his damn job.
Now, now starswordc, please show us on this dolly where the evul Picard touched you.
Actually Picard would not surrender. He almost never did. Granted he tried all diplomatic attempts first, but when he needed to get in the mud and blood, Picard was right there swinging, or do I need to point out First Contact? (fun fact, after doing that movie, Patrick Stewart who LOVES Moby **** actually did play Ahab in an A&E movie).
No when push comes to shove, Picard definitely SHOVES.
Yeah, that's Picard AFTER "The Best of Both Worlds". Pre-Borg Picard is the pretentious moron who lowers his shields with an enemy warship in weapons range and then acts all surprised when they try to capitalize on his stupidity.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Yeah, that's Picard AFTER "The Best of Both Worlds". Pre-Borg Picard is the pretentious moron who lowers his shields with an enemy warship in weapons range and then acts all surprised when they try to capitalize on his stupidity.
In Picard's defense, TNG season 1 and most of the first half of season 2 were both kind of bad.
*points to "Code of Honor" or whatever that terrible episode with the space Africans was, "Justice", and the one where Yar screwed Data and he made that awful joke about his masculinity*
Yeah, that's Picard AFTER "The Best of Both Worlds". Pre-Borg Picard is the pretentious moron who lowers his shields with an enemy warship in weapons range and then acts all surprised when they try to capitalize on his stupidity.
I call that bad writing. Sorry got way better in the 3rd season, though best captain will always IMHO be Sisko.
Punched Q in the face then said "I'm not Picard." Priceless.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
In Picard's defense, TNG season 1 and most of the first half of season 2 were both kind of bad.
*points to "Code of Honor" or whatever that terrible episode with the space Africans was, "Justice", and the one where Yar screwed Data and he made that awful joke about his masculinity*
I prefer Sisko because A, let's not mince words, he's a badass, and B, he's got the guts to swallow his pride and make the right or smart choice rather than agonizing and speechifying forever before finally settling on the strictly moral choice. He feels more like a realistic military officer (granted, that's when he's acting as a CO, not as the Emissary) and is more likely to be representative of most of Starfleet, whereas Picard always gives off this holier-than-thou aristocratic pretentiousness vibe that rubs me the wrong way. And as I mentioned earlier, Picard will frequently do absolutely idiotic things out of misguided idealism that do nothing but needlessly endanger his crew.
I admit punching out Q was what made me like Sisko to begin with, though. The look on John de Lancie's face at that moment sells it.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I prefer Sisko because A, let's not mince words, he's a badass, and B, he's got the guts to swallow his pride and make the right or smart choice rather than agonizing and speechifying forever before finally settling on the strictly moral choice. He feels more like a realistic military officer (granted, that's when he's acting as a CO, not as the Emissary) and is more likely to be representative of most of Starfleet, whereas Picard always gives off this holier-than-thou aristocratic pretentiousness vibe that rubs me the wrong way. And as I mentioned earlier, Picard will frequently do absolutely idiotic things out of misguided idealism that do nothing but needlessly endanger his crew.
I admit punching out Q was what made me like Sisko to begin with, though. The look on John de Lancie's face at that moment sells it.
I preferred TNG because of Sir Patrick freaking Stewart, who's just the classiest guy there is, and Data. And LaForge. And Crusher (Beverly, and Wesley in a few later episodes). And of course Worf.
On top of that, I love Picard because THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!!!!!
On an unrelated note, how far are you through the DR storyline? When you're done, do you want to have D'trel and Brokosh run through "Takedown" together?
Alright, just chiming in here. Here is my personal and unadulterated look at the Kazon:
The Kazon certainly aren't among the higher threats out there, but they fill one role perfectly: the constant nuisance and unlikely ally. They fit that.
There just can't always be enemies of the same caliber as the Borg, the Dominion or Iconians. You also need some material in the lower threat levels to work with. Water is what they fight over and I can get behind that.
Think about it: We (player factions) take things like replicators for granted. But just because we have it, doesn't mean everyone else does. How many aliens have it? I don't recall that many having used replicators onscreen. And if they don't have replicators, they have planets, something the Kazon also don't seem to have. And with the Kazon being nomadic and separated into sects, fighting over the most basic resources becomes a need. Vulcans had warp drive before Humans did. Klingons had photon torpedoes before the Humans had them. Did that stop them from trying to survive and get their hands on better stuff? No, on the contrary.
The Kazon longing for replicators is not really different from Hirogen trying to get holodeck tech. The difference being that I never hear anyone call the Hirogen primitive, even though they certainly aren't much smarter than the Kazon.
I was glad to see Kazon being part of DR and seeing their ships appear in lockboxes.
As for them joining the KDF? If the KDF can take in pirates and telepathic assassins that TRIBBLE up your mind, then I don't see why not. They certainly wouldn't be a player in Klingon politics though.
In summary: the Kazon deserve their existance as a minor threat. If every species we run into would be the newest deus ex machina, then that would be boring. Although I will agree that VOY shouldn't have used them as the main threat all the way to the end of the second season. Instead, I would devoted season 1 to the Kazon and season 2 to the Viidians, which were somewhat underused it felt.
So like it or not, I'm not hating on the Kazon. I can think of a number of other aliens on Star Trek that I liked less, albeit for different reasons.
No it isn't, it is a false mirror that bears only skin deep resemblance to Star Trek.
And why should we KDF be forced to suffer the Kazon? Give them to the Feds, we deserve better.
Then why are you making such as big deal about whether or not the Kazon become part of the Empire is this game has only as passing resemblance to the "Real" Trek? You kill your own canon based argument.
Alright, just chiming in here. Here is my personal and unadulterated look at the Kazon:
The Kazon certainly aren't among the higher threats out there, but they fill one role perfectly: the constant nuisance and unlikely ally. They fit that.
Yes on the first, definitely not on the second because what purpose would allying with these space trash serve?
There just can't always be enemies of the same caliber as the Borg, the Dominion or Iconians. You also need some material in the lower threat levels to work with. Water is what they fight over and I can get behind that.
There's lower threat levels and then there's being NOT THREATENING AT ALL due to a COMPLETE inability to show anything resembling an IQ score. Also, as detailed above, fighting over water in SPACE when you have easy FTL is about the dumbest thing imaginable to fight over.
The Kazon longing for replicators is not really different from Hirogen trying to get holodeck tech. The difference being that I never hear anyone call the Hirogen primitive, even though they certainly aren't much smarter than the Kazon.
The Hirogen are a LOT smarter than the Kazon. One Hirogen escort can take a Federation medium cruiser despite them being similar power levels, while it takes multiple carrier-class Kazon capital ships to pose even a moderate threat to that same medium cruiser while it was already badly damaged. The Hirogen were able to trap the entire crew of said ship in a holofantasy for weeks. On top of that, holodecks are a toy while replicators are seen as essential to interstellar life in Trek.
The Kazon weren't even able to take a heavily-damaged medium cruiser with MULTIPLE carrier-class capital ships. They showed no tactical ability whatsoever. They were IDIOTS.
As for them joining the KDF? If the KDF can take in pirates and telepathic assassins that TRIBBLE up your mind, then I don't see why not. They certainly wouldn't be a player in Klingon politics though.
Because those pirates and telepaths are INTELLIGENT and USEFUL. The Kazon are neither. They don't even make good slaves since they are apparently congenitally violent and stupid.
Then why are you making such as big deal about whether or not the Kazon become part of the Empire is this game has only as passing resemblance to the "Real" Trek? You kill your own canon based argument.
Deep. Space. Nine. And who cares if this game fits your definition of "real" Trek? It's more canon than the novelverse now, according to CBS.
The central problem with the Kazon is that Klingons are repeatedly shown to be intelligent, tactically adept people while the Kazon are shown to be complete idiots with no useful features whatsoever. There is NO reason for the Klingons to accept or conquer the Kazon; better just to knock them back to the Stone Age and ignore them, they'll die out pretty soon anyway because of their mind-numbing idiocy and the fact that they lack the intellectual capacity to build and maintain their own starships.
Thank you for your entirely pointless addition to this conversation. At no point in your rambling, incoherent mess of an argument did you make anything even remotely approaching a rational thought. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.
Then why are you making such as big deal about whether or not the Kazon become part of the Empire is this game has only as passing resemblance to the "Real" Trek? You kill your own canon based argument.
Justify why the Empire should suffer these useless, honourless creatures.
Thank you for your entirely pointless addition to this conversation. At no point in your rambling, incoherent mess of an argument did you make anything even remotely approaching a rational thought. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.
(spot the reference...)
Wow, what a unique comeback! :rolleyes: Adam Sandler would be proud.
The adition was not pointless. I lol'd at the statement, which considering the statement is most one could do.
That's what's funny. You being serious in believeing that your statement is true.
Except that it is true. CBS has stated that STO is canon until shows prove otherwise, and that the novelverse is noncanon unless something from it appears in STO.
Except that it is true. CBS has stated that STO is canon until shows prove otherwise, and that the novelverse is noncanon unless something from it appears in STO.
Actually stated as such, or inferred from the fact STO still has a licence?
Actually stated as such, or inferred from the fact STO still has a licence?
Preferrably with source if an actual statement.
Don't have a source at the moment, but it is referenced on TVTropes, which has pretty strict referencing guidelines if no notability guidelines whatsoever.
Mostly it's because Destiny killed off a bunch of fan favorite characters and the network doesn't like the novelverse as a result.
Except that it is true. CBS has stated that STO is canon until shows prove otherwise, and that the novelverse is noncanon unless something from it appears in STO.
Except that you have no idea what you're talking about. CBS has explicitly stated (and this was posted on their webpage that was also linked somewhere on this forum as well, but has probably drowned in millions of other threads by now) that they consider canon only material that has aired on TV - so the shows, the movies and TAS.
The novelverse was never considered canon, it was always soft-canon and as such succeptible to being trumped by anything Trek related that CBS/Paramount may decide to create in the future. The video games are even lower on the scale. They don't exist in terms of canon. They're just liscenced products, nothing more. No Star Trek game was ever considered even remotely close to being canon and the one most detached from Star Trek sure as hell ain't.
So no mate, STO ain't canon. Not even remotely close. Canon is the North Pole, STO is the South Pole. Canon is Mercury, STO is Pluto. You catch my drift....
And sorry, but I just always find it funny (you're not the first one to think this) when people think STO is canon. I mean, seriously, look around - this game barely resembles Star Trek at this point.
Except that you have no idea what you're talking about. CBS has explicitly stated (and this was posted on their webpage that was also linked somewhere on this forum as well, but has probably drowned in millions of other threads by now) that they consider canon only material that has aired on TV - so the shows, the movies and TAS.
The novelverse was never considered canon, it was always soft-canon and as such succeptible to being trumped by anything Trek related that CBS/Paramount may decide to create in the future. The video games are even lower on the scale. They don't exist in terms of canon. They're just liscenced products, nothing more. No Star Trek game was ever considered even remotely close to being canon and the one most detached from Star Trek sure as hell ain't.
So no mate, STO ain't canon. Not even remotely close. Canon is the North Pole, STO is the South Pole. Canon is Mercury, STO is Pluto. You catch my drift....
And sorry, but I just always find it funny (you're not the first one to think this) when people think STO is canon. I mean, seriously, look around - this game barely resembles Star Trek at this point.
Except that your info is outdated.
CBS has explicitly stated, on that same webpage you're talking about (also likely drowned, of course), that STO is canon until the shows trump it. STO isn't like other ST video games; it was from the start supposed to be mostly canon.
The novelverse USED to work the same way, but now it's been knocked down to glorified fanfic.
And as to your last point...I call BS. This game ain't that unlike the Dominion War storyline, where there was a fight at least once an episode.
CBS has explicitly stated, on that same webpage you're talking about (also likely drowned, of course), that STO is canon until the shows trump it. STO isn't like other ST video games; it was from the start supposed to be mostly canon.
Proof, Phlox? Because I'm calling BS and wishfull thinking on this.
LMAO!!! This keeps getting better and better. Comedy gold, I give you that. :P
Actually, I and half my dorm are laughing at you right this instant.
My roommate says, based on this and other posts you've made today, that he thinks your coffee was spiked with something stronger than wasabi this morning. My sort-of-kind-of girlfriend says that you are the most unintentionally hilarious thing that she's seen since "The Room".
Comments
Actually Picard would not surrender. He almost never did. Granted he tried all diplomatic attempts first, but when he needed to get in the mud and blood, Picard was right there swinging, or do I need to point out First Contact? (fun fact, after doing that movie, Patrick Stewart who LOVES Moby **** actually did play Ahab in an A&E movie).
No when push comes to shove, Picard definitely SHOVES.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Now, now starswordc, please show us on this dolly where the evul Picard touched you.
Yeah, that's Picard AFTER "The Best of Both Worlds". Pre-Borg Picard is the pretentious moron who lowers his shields with an enemy warship in weapons range and then acts all surprised when they try to capitalize on his stupidity.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
In Picard's defense, TNG season 1 and most of the first half of season 2 were both kind of bad.
*points to "Code of Honor" or whatever that terrible episode with the space Africans was, "Justice", and the one where Yar screwed Data and he made that awful joke about his masculinity*
I call that bad writing. Sorry got way better in the 3rd season, though best captain will always IMHO be Sisko.
Punched Q in the face then said "I'm not Picard." Priceless.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I prefer Picard on the basis of raw acting power, but the Sisko is a VERY close second. He is of Bajor, after all. :cool:
Third best is, of course, Thy'lek Shran.
may I say something?
No. You may not.
I admit punching out Q was what made me like Sisko to begin with, though. The look on John de Lancie's face at that moment sells it.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I preferred TNG because of Sir Patrick freaking Stewart, who's just the classiest guy there is, and Data. And LaForge. And Crusher (Beverly, and Wesley in a few later episodes). And of course Worf.
On top of that, I love Picard because THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!!!!!
On an unrelated note, how far are you through the DR storyline? When you're done, do you want to have D'trel and Brokosh run through "Takedown" together?
The Kazon certainly aren't among the higher threats out there, but they fill one role perfectly: the constant nuisance and unlikely ally. They fit that.
There just can't always be enemies of the same caliber as the Borg, the Dominion or Iconians. You also need some material in the lower threat levels to work with. Water is what they fight over and I can get behind that.
Think about it: We (player factions) take things like replicators for granted. But just because we have it, doesn't mean everyone else does. How many aliens have it? I don't recall that many having used replicators onscreen. And if they don't have replicators, they have planets, something the Kazon also don't seem to have. And with the Kazon being nomadic and separated into sects, fighting over the most basic resources becomes a need. Vulcans had warp drive before Humans did. Klingons had photon torpedoes before the Humans had them. Did that stop them from trying to survive and get their hands on better stuff? No, on the contrary.
The Kazon longing for replicators is not really different from Hirogen trying to get holodeck tech. The difference being that I never hear anyone call the Hirogen primitive, even though they certainly aren't much smarter than the Kazon.
I was glad to see Kazon being part of DR and seeing their ships appear in lockboxes.
As for them joining the KDF? If the KDF can take in pirates and telepathic assassins that TRIBBLE up your mind, then I don't see why not. They certainly wouldn't be a player in Klingon politics though.
In summary: the Kazon deserve their existance as a minor threat. If every species we run into would be the newest deus ex machina, then that would be boring. Although I will agree that VOY shouldn't have used them as the main threat all the way to the end of the second season. Instead, I would devoted season 1 to the Kazon and season 2 to the Viidians, which were somewhat underused it felt.
So like it or not, I'm not hating on the Kazon. I can think of a number of other aliens on Star Trek that I liked less, albeit for different reasons.
"Let them eat static!"
1. yes, he is.
2. I need to stop translating everything in German, it get's more "wild"
Thihihihihihi < runs away >
Then why are you making such as big deal about whether or not the Kazon become part of the Empire is this game has only as passing resemblance to the "Real" Trek? You kill your own canon based argument.
The Kazon weren't even able to take a heavily-damaged medium cruiser with MULTIPLE carrier-class capital ships. They showed no tactical ability whatsoever. They were IDIOTS. Welcome to the tiny minority. Because those pirates and telepaths are INTELLIGENT and USEFUL. The Kazon are neither. They don't even make good slaves since they are apparently congenitally violent and stupid.
Deep. Space. Nine. And who cares if this game fits your definition of "real" Trek? It's more canon than the novelverse now, according to CBS.
The central problem with the Kazon is that Klingons are repeatedly shown to be intelligent, tactically adept people while the Kazon are shown to be complete idiots with no useful features whatsoever. There is NO reason for the Klingons to accept or conquer the Kazon; better just to knock them back to the Stone Age and ignore them, they'll die out pretty soon anyway because of their mind-numbing idiocy and the fact that they lack the intellectual capacity to build and maintain their own starships.
BWWAAAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHAHAHA!!!
That is all.
Thank you for your entirely pointless addition to this conversation. At no point in your rambling, incoherent mess of an argument did you make anything even remotely approaching a rational thought. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.
(spot the reference...)
Justify why the Empire should suffer these useless, honourless creatures.
Wow, what a unique comeback! :rolleyes: Adam Sandler would be proud.
The adition was not pointless. I lol'd at the statement, which considering the statement is most one could do.
Well, the statement is true.
Before STO and the Destiny trilogy, the officially-endorsed novelverse was considered soft canon. As in, canon until contradicted onscreen.
Now, STO is considered canon until contradicted onscreen and the novelverse isn't.
That technically makes STO "real" Star Trek, at least for now.
AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
That is all.
I don't see what's so funny. My statement is true and entirely serious.
That's what's funny. You being serious in believeing that your statement is true.
Except that it is true. CBS has stated that STO is canon until shows prove otherwise, and that the novelverse is noncanon unless something from it appears in STO.
Actually stated as such, or inferred from the fact STO still has a licence?
Preferrably with source if an actual statement.
Don't have a source at the moment, but it is referenced on TVTropes, which has pretty strict referencing guidelines if no notability guidelines whatsoever.
Mostly it's because Destiny killed off a bunch of fan favorite characters and the network doesn't like the novelverse as a result.
Except that you have no idea what you're talking about. CBS has explicitly stated (and this was posted on their webpage that was also linked somewhere on this forum as well, but has probably drowned in millions of other threads by now) that they consider canon only material that has aired on TV - so the shows, the movies and TAS.
The novelverse was never considered canon, it was always soft-canon and as such succeptible to being trumped by anything Trek related that CBS/Paramount may decide to create in the future. The video games are even lower on the scale. They don't exist in terms of canon. They're just liscenced products, nothing more. No Star Trek game was ever considered even remotely close to being canon and the one most detached from Star Trek sure as hell ain't.
So no mate, STO ain't canon. Not even remotely close. Canon is the North Pole, STO is the South Pole. Canon is Mercury, STO is Pluto. You catch my drift....
And sorry, but I just always find it funny (you're not the first one to think this) when people think STO is canon. I mean, seriously, look around - this game barely resembles Star Trek at this point.
Except that your info is outdated.
CBS has explicitly stated, on that same webpage you're talking about (also likely drowned, of course), that STO is canon until the shows trump it. STO isn't like other ST video games; it was from the start supposed to be mostly canon.
The novelverse USED to work the same way, but now it's been knocked down to glorified fanfic.
And as to your last point...I call BS. This game ain't that unlike the Dominion War storyline, where there was a fight at least once an episode.
Proof, Phlox? Because I'm calling BS and wishfull thinking on this.
LMAO!!!
Actually, I and half my dorm are laughing at you right this instant.
My roommate says, based on this and other posts you've made today, that he thinks your coffee was spiked with something stronger than wasabi this morning. My sort-of-kind-of girlfriend says that you are the most unintentionally hilarious thing that she's seen since "The Room".
In short, you're a laughingstock.