1. The only T5 ones that are allowed are the mirror ships purchasable from the exchange (e.g. Mirror Star Cruiser), and the free ones you pick up when you reach level 40 (e.g. Assault Cruiser, no refit). There are certain exceptions listed in the OP.
^ This, I get it...
6. Yep, the Hegh'ta and B'Rel retrofit are allowed.
^ This, I don't get it. They're also T5 (most likely C-Store), not mirror ships and yet they're allowed...? Biased much or something?
5. What is your data composed of? If it is merely DPS, then it is definitely unreliable. How are your figures calculated? Have they taken the greater hull capacity/shielding capacity and regen of cruisers/science vessels into consideration? What about the greater capacity for defensive abilities? Power bonuses? Debuff capacity? I have significant doubts about your interpretation of the data, given the lack of elaboration and the fact that they clash with my personal experience.
^ Figures were taken through usage of the ships themselves, including shield regen and defensive capabilities, all of them observed with ship equipment only, without the use of any boff equipped and no captain power being used. I don't know exactly what "personal experience" is because everytime I decide to do PvP, the only ships I see are Escort-type ships so~ "personal experience" to me is getting an escort because its PvP specific.
4. The original limit was Mk X purple, which was seen to be more or less equivalent to Mk XI blue. Essentially, they're cheap, so people can just grab equipment on the cheap and get in easily. Mk XII has an advantage, no matter how small, and I think the channel holders don't want that.
^ So~, apart from the price that costs in the exchange, said difference is present in every rarity-to-rarity and Mk-to-Mk... Basically, its for easy access sake.
My guess: Most players (in the channel) wish to have old school dogfight matches with escorts. At least that's the impression I got so far from lurking in the channel and seeing callouts only for (players with) escorts. Thanks to my next semester starting I haven't been able to play much this week and might have got the wrong impression though.
^ ... Killswitch, through and through, be it bad impression or not.
WTH did you test?! Exhaust emission values, aerodynamic drag in an air duct, painting, rims? Lol?!
Tested a T5 Cruiser (Ops Oddyssey) properly equipped. True, its not a ship type meant to deal damage... However, I need to be fully buffed with purple Mk XII damage bonus consoles in order to even get relatively close to the "supposed" damage the ship should be doing... Not 'would', not 'could', its 'should be doing'. Damage was dealt at a distance of 0.25Kms. Supposed damage should be around 1200 dmg per hit, it was actually doing around 480~530 per hit.
Then for lols sake, I tested a T2 Saber Class (Escort-type ship) and~ without any consoles and/or buffs it was doing pretty much 3xx the damage the ship was "supposed" to do, at a distance of 8Kms. Supposed damage being around 1470 dmg per hit, but actually hitting at nearly 2250 per hit.
Lets not go with defense - - wait, lets go with defense alright. T5 ops Oddyssey are meant to resist damage, yet 5 Neutronium Alloy Consoles can't provide more 56% damage resistance against all types. Equipped a single of those Neutronium consoles on a Saber, its damage resistance against all types goes from 0% up to 42%... Better yet, during combat, damage values on that same Saber is reduced to a point where hull damage, with active shield facings, is reduced all the way to 1 while in the same conditions, this time with an Ops Oddyssey, damage dealt on hull are around 70~250 dmg per hit...
^ ... For me, this is kicking a table, flipping it upside down... A smaller ship with a better power core, with better hull hardening and shield hardening than any bigger ship? Only possible in dreams, within each twisted individual mind. This doesn't show me any 'Role specific ships', it just shows me 'PvP specific ships' and 'PvE specific ships', being those 'Escorts' and 'All the rest' respectively... But this isn't the place to be complaining. My questions were answered, and I appreciate the quick answering and the fact that it did make a spark on my interest makes the idea itself good... However, it went down like a small piece of magnesium, where it burns out rather quickly instead of lasting for considerable time...
I just wanted to commend you on your channel creation of VPvP.
It's great to see someone like your self taking the iniative to keep STO fun again.
I have created the Star Trek Battles with sort of the same thing in mind.
I myself am not a PvPer but have done so in the past within the channel with it's Dominion War and Raider battles. Keeping it fair all around has created some good ol' fashioned battles.
I wish you all the success with your channel, if you ever feel like downing the DPS and run a canon loadout... check out STB.
Great work again Captain 07
What if I told you that ... I am thinking of playing in STB the very same sci healer role I am playing in vPvP ? ( So I won't have to change key binds lol )
The difference is that in STB I would FINALLY fly the Voyager.
Anyway, yes, it's nice to see again the BoPs!
^ This, I don't get it. They're also T5 (most likely C-Store), not mirror ships and yet they're allowed...? Biased much or something?
The Hegh'ta is a T5 BOP obtainable free at level 40. Although the B'Rel is C-store, there was some discussion over the last few pages that led to it being allowed.
^ Figures were taken through usage of the ships themselves, including shield regen and defensive capabilities, all of them observed with ship equipment only, without the use of any boff equipped and no captain power being used. I don't know exactly what "personal experience" is because everytime I decide to do PvP, the only ships I see are Escort-type ships so~ "personal experience" to me is getting an escort because its PvP specific.
Tested a T5 Cruiser (Ops Oddyssey) properly equipped. True, its not a ship type meant to deal damage... However, I need to be fully buffed with purple Mk XII damage bonus consoles in order to even get relatively close to the "supposed" damage the ship should be doing... Not 'would', not 'could', its 'should be doing'. Damage was dealt at a distance of 0.25Kms. Supposed damage should be around 1200 dmg per hit, it was actually doing around 480~530 per hit.
Then for lols sake, I tested a T2 Saber Class (Escort-type ship) and~ without any consoles and/or buffs it was doing pretty much 3xx the damage the ship was "supposed" to do, at a distance of 8Kms. Supposed damage being around 1470 dmg per hit, but actually hitting at nearly 2250 per hit.
Lets not go with defense - - wait, lets go with defense alright. T5 ops Oddyssey are meant to resist damage, yet 5 Neutronium Alloy Consoles can't provide more 56% damage resistance against all types. Equipped a single of those Neutronium consoles on a Saber, its damage resistance against all types goes from 0% up to 42%... Better yet, during combat, damage values on that same Saber is reduced to a point where hull damage, with active shield facings, is reduced all the way to 1 while in the same conditions, this time with an Ops Oddyssey, damage dealt on hull are around 70~250 dmg per hit...
^ ... For me, this is kicking a table, flipping it upside down... A smaller ship with a better power core, with better hull hardening and shield hardening than any bigger ship? Only possible in dreams, within each twisted individual mind. This doesn't show me any 'Role specific ships', it just shows me 'PvP specific ships' and 'PvE specific ships', being those 'Escorts' and 'All the rest' respectively... But this isn't the place to be complaining. My questions were answered, and I appreciate the quick answering and the fact that it did make a spark on my interest makes the idea itself good... However, it went down like a small piece of magnesium, where it burns out rather quickly instead of lasting for considerable time...
I still have a few questions.
1. Were these experiments carried out on the same toon? If no, was it the same spec?
2. What scenario/mission was it carried out on?
3. What equipment was being used? Weapons, deflectors, etc.
4. What was the target being used?
5. What is your source for "1200 per hit"?
6. Was the experiment replicated with a T2 Cruiser?
7. Was the experiment replicated with a T5 Escort?
8. Were power settings the same? Resultant power?
Edit: If you wish to reply, let's take it to another thread to avoid cluttering up this one - but this could be an interesting discussion.
ksobanana, I have no idea what the heck you're talking about, but, um... the channel is working fine, thanks. Everything is quite balanced and quite fun. I edited the ship rules section just to try to make it perfectly clear what we allow.
I'm really not interested in discussing whatever research you have made (and failed to properly explain where your arbitrary numbers come from). If we decide something is not right in VPvP, we'll take care of it.
I'd suggest to you to make some inquiry posts in the Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanics section of the boards.
Specifically, in the areas of weapon power drain, diminishing return on armor and speed tanking.
There are math guru's in there that understand this stuff in and out. They can help sort out your questions and any misconceptions between what we saw on TV and how the game functions.
I don't know how to break it gently to you, so let me put it blunty:
Your data ascertainment method and evaluation is very flawed, leading to invalid and confused conclusions.
This thread however is not the proper place for such a discussion. I am confident if you create a seperate thread where you lay down your testing methodology and conclusions, the community will help clearing out any misconceptions.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
1.gonna sound like a newb but how do i join the VPvP channel?
2.are the blue retrofit phasers alowed
3 not a question but so far this whole thing sounds brilliant.
other than that carnt wait to try this lot out, time to go level a freash toon for it
1.gonna sound like a newb but how do i join the VPvP channel?
2.are the blue retrofit phasers alowed
3 not a question but so far this whole thing sounds brilliant.
other than that carnt wait to try this lot out, time to go level a freash toon for it
.The Spanish Inquisition. TSI -- Star Trek Online PvP Vidoes (Youtube) /channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match.
However what puzzles me is why Intrepid and similar ships are not allowed? (Not fleet just the tier 5 with tier 4 stats and no special consoles or any other equipment) (except the Dread that has a special ability)
Do not get me wrong but stats wise Mirrror Universe Deep Space is better than Intrepid.
Same hull
+100 more shields to Intrepid,
Speed +0,02 and turn +1 Mirror Deep Space
Boff Layout Mirror Deep Space
However what puzzles me is why Intrepid and similar ships are not allowed? (Not fleet just the tier 5 with tier 4 stats and no special consoles or any other equipment) (except the Dread that has a special ability)
Do not get me wrong but stats wise Mirrror Universe Deep Space is better than Intrepid.
Same hull
+100 more shields to Intrepid,
Speed +0,02 and turn +1 Mirror Deep Space
Boff Layout Mirror Deep Space
Similar thing with the rest of the ships.
Just curious and food for thought.
Enough writing lets go fighting !!!!
It's a slippery slope thing. We allow one C-Store in that is slightly better than free ships, then people will ask for more to be allowed, and it goes out of control from there.
I was excited to get into some vpvp matches. I bought all the gear but then I got to the BOFF restrictions. As a silver account Rom with all the BOFSS i got through leveling, my choices are to buy more boff slots (not happening) or dismiss my entire crew and get a new crew with no space traits. Sucks to be me I guess?
Those BOFFS with all the space traits are just too valuable to dismiss it would cost hundreds of millions of EC to replace them...
It's a slippery slope thing. We allow one C-Store in that is slightly better than free ships, then people will ask for more to be allowed, and it goes out of control from there.
This. VPvP moves away from everything that breaks normal PvP, and some C-Store ships are part of the problem.
I was excited to get into some vpvp matches. I bought all the gear but then I got to the BOFF restrictions. As a silver account Rom with all the BOFSS i got through leveling, my choices are to buy more boff slots (not happening) or dismiss my entire crew and get a new crew with no space traits. Sucks to be me I guess?
Those BOFFS with all the space traits are just too valuable to dismiss it would cost hundreds of millions of EC to replace them...
I was originally going to ban Roms altogether, but let them off on the condition that their OP stuff is banned.
I was excited to get into some vpvp matches. I bought all the gear but then I got to the BOFF restrictions. As a silver account Rom with all the BOFSS i got through leveling, my choices are to buy more boff slots (not happening) or dismiss my entire crew and get a new crew with no space traits. Sucks to be me I guess?
Those BOFFS with all the space traits are just too valuable to dismiss it would cost hundreds of millions of EC to replace them...
The thing is the bigger picture.
BRO, RO and especially SRO are all major unbalancers, and they simply cannot be in VPvP, it causes too much damage.
As does Infiltrator.
As Voporak said, at one point Romulans were banned full stop, but it was relented upon to removing most of the OP-ness.
.The Spanish Inquisition. TSI -- Star Trek Online PvP Vidoes (Youtube) /channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match.
Because there are dishonorable people in the game who would quietly slip in and try to ruin the fun. Trust me, making it invite only does help to weed out those folks.
(We do have a blacklist for people who are not allowed entry (by either disorderly conduct or breaking channel rules repeatedly), which is also why it is invite only. Thankfully there is only one person on that list.)
Sad Pandas PvP - Starfleet Dental Member - Lag Industries Leader
--
"What a time it was, with all the world against us, what a time it was... When all we did seemed wrong,
we've broken all our bonds, but life kept going on, what a time, what a time it was..." - Clem Tholet
Mirror Universe Mogai Heavy Warbird Retrofit
ATTN Voporak :
- Please look over the list of KDF pets , to see if I have listed them correctly .
- You're welcome to link this post somewhere on the OP .
- You're also welcome to copy this post & re-post it , so you can have editorial privileges over the content (thus you won't have to bug me to make edits :P) .
... now to start campaigning for that T5 Excelsior to be included ... , as "classic PVP" in Year 1 of STO was : Excelsior's VS BOP's . The rest were just moving objects ...
I'd miss the Defiant, unless Tier 4 happens a lot. But a cool idea. You have my immoral support. (But not much else right now... I think I've actually gotten rid of all low tier ships on my chars. And somehow, PvP doesn't appeal to me as much anymore as it used to.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Nice matches yesterday Just a request guys, also already said by hilbert and friends, parse the matches and upload them on the pvp leaderboard, so we'll have the datas to balance better in the future
To play this i have to rebuy the fleet patrol ( i deleted it) ,rebuy normal tac consoles ,check how much my polarons costs on exchange (probably more than 3 mills even thou they are from s4) ,get normal engi consoles ....all taht for my bug.
almost makes cryptic's expansion look not so grindy :rolleyes:
Comments
^ This, I get it...
^ This, I don't get it. They're also T5 (most likely C-Store), not mirror ships and yet they're allowed...? Biased much or something?
^ Figures were taken through usage of the ships themselves, including shield regen and defensive capabilities, all of them observed with ship equipment only, without the use of any boff equipped and no captain power being used. I don't know exactly what "personal experience" is because everytime I decide to do PvP, the only ships I see are Escort-type ships so~ "personal experience" to me is getting an escort because its PvP specific.
^ So~, apart from the price that costs in the exchange, said difference is present in every rarity-to-rarity and Mk-to-Mk... Basically, its for easy access sake.
^ ... Killswitch, through and through, be it bad impression or not.
Tested a T5 Cruiser (Ops Oddyssey) properly equipped. True, its not a ship type meant to deal damage... However, I need to be fully buffed with purple Mk XII damage bonus consoles in order to even get relatively close to the "supposed" damage the ship should be doing... Not 'would', not 'could', its 'should be doing'. Damage was dealt at a distance of 0.25Kms. Supposed damage should be around 1200 dmg per hit, it was actually doing around 480~530 per hit.
Then for lols sake, I tested a T2 Saber Class (Escort-type ship) and~ without any consoles and/or buffs it was doing pretty much 3xx the damage the ship was "supposed" to do, at a distance of 8Kms. Supposed damage being around 1470 dmg per hit, but actually hitting at nearly 2250 per hit.
Lets not go with defense - - wait, lets go with defense alright. T5 ops Oddyssey are meant to resist damage, yet 5 Neutronium Alloy Consoles can't provide more 56% damage resistance against all types. Equipped a single of those Neutronium consoles on a Saber, its damage resistance against all types goes from 0% up to 42%... Better yet, during combat, damage values on that same Saber is reduced to a point where hull damage, with active shield facings, is reduced all the way to 1 while in the same conditions, this time with an Ops Oddyssey, damage dealt on hull are around 70~250 dmg per hit...
^ ... For me, this is kicking a table, flipping it upside down... A smaller ship with a better power core, with better hull hardening and shield hardening than any bigger ship? Only possible in dreams, within each twisted individual mind. This doesn't show me any 'Role specific ships', it just shows me 'PvP specific ships' and 'PvE specific ships', being those 'Escorts' and 'All the rest' respectively... But this isn't the place to be complaining. My questions were answered, and I appreciate the quick answering and the fact that it did make a spark on my interest makes the idea itself good... However, it went down like a small piece of magnesium, where it burns out rather quickly instead of lasting for considerable time...
You have flown a Bird of Prey right?
I love the way this is full of casual obvious!
If Hegtah's are in give me a shout. I can dust off the Marmot H.O.D. for a bit.
And you still can't have your records back. They iz mine!
Hegh'ta, Ki'tang and C-Store B'rel for BoPs.
What if I told you that ... I am thinking of playing in STB the very same sci healer role I am playing in vPvP ? ( So I won't have to change key binds lol )
The difference is that in STB I would FINALLY fly the Voyager.
Anyway, yes, it's nice to see again the BoPs!
The Hegh'ta is a T5 BOP obtainable free at level 40. Although the B'Rel is C-store, there was some discussion over the last few pages that led to it being allowed.
I still have a few questions.
1. Were these experiments carried out on the same toon? If no, was it the same spec?
2. What scenario/mission was it carried out on?
3. What equipment was being used? Weapons, deflectors, etc.
4. What was the target being used?
5. What is your source for "1200 per hit"?
6. Was the experiment replicated with a T2 Cruiser?
7. Was the experiment replicated with a T5 Escort?
8. Were power settings the same? Resultant power?
Edit: If you wish to reply, let's take it to another thread to avoid cluttering up this one - but this could be an interesting discussion.
I'm really not interested in discussing whatever research you have made (and failed to properly explain where your arbitrary numbers come from). If we decide something is not right in VPvP, we'll take care of it.
I'd suggest to you to make some inquiry posts in the Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanics section of the boards.
Specifically, in the areas of weapon power drain, diminishing return on armor and speed tanking.
There are math guru's in there that understand this stuff in and out. They can help sort out your questions and any misconceptions between what we saw on TV and how the game functions.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=219
Ah well, thanks for the reply.
I don't know how to break it gently to you, so let me put it blunty:
Your data ascertainment method and evaluation is very flawed, leading to invalid and confused conclusions.
This thread however is not the proper place for such a discussion. I am confident if you create a seperate thread where you lay down your testing methodology and conclusions, the community will help clearing out any misconceptions.
You mean "no crafted items higher than XI Blue" right?
Also I don't see mention of the deployable satellite turret Devices anywhere.
Joined January 2009
no that means NO items that have mods from crafting on them ([over], [pen], [ect])
2.are the blue retrofit phasers alowed
3 not a question but so far this whole thing sounds brilliant.
other than that carnt wait to try this lot out, time to go level a freash toon for it
Retrofit phasers are allowed.
What is your in-game @handle?
i hope this is what you ment...
Georgina@luk3gittins is the one i plan to use for this vpvp,
hopefully my ship aint brakeing any rules..
http://gateway.startrekonline.com/#char%28Georgina@luk3gittins%29/ship-equipment
let me know if it is and i shall *try* to resolve it
TSI -- Star Trek Online PvP Vidoes (Youtube)
/channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match.
Finally some fun fights.
However what puzzles me is why Intrepid and similar ships are not allowed? (Not fleet just the tier 5 with tier 4 stats and no special consoles or any other equipment) (except the Dread that has a special ability)
Do not get me wrong but stats wise Mirrror Universe Deep Space is better than Intrepid.
Same hull
+100 more shields to Intrepid,
Speed +0,02 and turn +1 Mirror Deep Space
Boff Layout Mirror Deep Space
Similar thing with the rest of the ships.
Just curious and food for thought.
Enough writing lets go fighting !!!!
KDF Eng: Boreas I.K.S. Demonon Nemesis {Fleet: HoS}
Rom Sci: Crius I.R.W. Noctem Aeternus {Fleet: LoS}
Fed Tac: Kronos U.S.S. Xibalba, I.S.S. Theogonia{Fleet: HSF}
It's a slippery slope thing. We allow one C-Store in that is slightly better than free ships, then people will ask for more to be allowed, and it goes out of control from there.
Those BOFFS with all the space traits are just too valuable to dismiss it would cost hundreds of millions of EC to replace them...
This. VPvP moves away from everything that breaks normal PvP, and some C-Store ships are part of the problem.
I was originally going to ban Roms altogether, but let them off on the condition that their OP stuff is banned.
The thing is the bigger picture.
BRO, RO and especially SRO are all major unbalancers, and they simply cannot be in VPvP, it causes too much damage.
As does Infiltrator.
As Voporak said, at one point Romulans were banned full stop, but it was relented upon to removing most of the OP-ness.
sadly i lagged out in my first game, and cant get back in....
Sorry if this has been asked before.
TSI -- Star Trek Online PvP Vidoes (Youtube)
/channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match.
Because there are dishonorable people in the game who would quietly slip in and try to ruin the fun. Trust me, making it invite only does help to weed out those folks.
(We do have a blacklist for people who are not allowed entry (by either disorderly conduct or breaking channel rules repeatedly), which is also why it is invite only. Thankfully there is only one person on that list.)
many asked for it, Arys' HaxBrel.
we've broken all our bonds, but life kept going on, what a time, what a time it was..." - Clem Tholet
* Currently no Fleet Ships are allowed .
** Currently no C-Store Ships are allowed , with the following exceptions :
B'rel Bird-of-Prey Retrofit
Varanus Support Vessel
Federation T5
Cruisers :
Assault Cruiser
Mirror Universe Assault Cruiser
Star Cruiser
Mirror Universe Star Cruiser
Support Cruiser Retrofit (limited time award)
Mirror Universe Heavy Cruiser Retrofit
Escorts :
Advanced Escort
Mirror Universe Advanced Escort
Patrol Escort
Mirror Universe Patrol Escort
Mirror Universe Escort Retrofit
Science :
Deep Space Science Vessel
Mirror Universe Deep Space Science Vessel
Reconnaissance Science Vessel
Mirror Universe Reconnaissance Science Vessel
Mirror Universe Science Vessel Retrofit
KDF T5
Cruisers :
Negh'Var Heavy Battle Cruiser
Mirror Universe Negh'Var Heavy Battle Cruiser
Vor'cha Battle Cruiser Retrofit
Mirror Universe Vor'cha Battle Cruiser
Kamarag Battlecruiser Retrofit (limited time award)
Raiders & Raptors :
Hegh'ta Heavy Bird-of-Prey
Mirror Universe Ki'tang Bird-of-Prey Retrofit
** B'rel Bird-of-Prey Retrofit
Qin Heavy Raptor
Mirror Qin Heavy Raptor
Mirror Universe Somraw Raptor Retrofit
Science :
** Varanus Support Vessel -- the use of [Console - Universal - Repair Platform] is not allowed .
Carriers :
Vo'Quv Carrier
Mirror Universe Vo'Quv Carrier
Carrier Pets : To'Duj Fighters , Orion Interceptors , Marauding Force , Orion Slavers , Bird-of-Prey ;
Romulans T5
Cruisers :
Ha'apax Advanced Warbird
Mirror Universe Ha'apax Advanced Warbird
Warbirds :
Ha'feh Assault Warbird
Mirror Universe Ha'feh Assault Warbird
Mirror Universe T'varo Light Warbird Retrofit
Mirror Universe Dhelan Warbird Retrofit
Mirror Universe Mogai Heavy Warbird Retrofit
ATTN Voporak :
- Please look over the list of KDF pets , to see if I have listed them correctly .
- You're welcome to link this post somewhere on the OP .
- You're also welcome to copy this post & re-post it , so you can have editorial privileges over the content (thus you won't have to bug me to make edits :P) .
... now to start campaigning for that T5 Excelsior to be included ... , as "classic PVP" in Year 1 of STO was : Excelsior's VS BOP's . The rest were just moving objects ...
almost makes cryptic's expansion look not so grindy :rolleyes:
Dude, your bedroom antics are of no concern to us, we would rather your immortal support.