i believe the majority stand together on this.....
just no clickies.
my apologies to those that would like to see them in the way we are trying to pvp in this channel.....whether it be via ship or mission or rep or be it whatever.
anything that can make your ship superior via the click of the mouse.....
we just do not want to see in this channel.
there are the regular queues for that if you wish to go that route. for me, i plan to do both.
but here.... we will stick to as close to pure as we can reasonably agree to.
i believe the majority stand together on this.....
just no clickies.
my apologies to those that would like to see them in the way we are trying to pvp in this channel.....whether it be via ship or mission or rep or be it whatever.
anything that can make your ship superior via the click of the mouse.....
we just do not want to see in this channel.
there are the regular queues for that if you wish to go that route. for me, i plan to do both.
but here.... we will stick to as close to pure as we can reasonably agree to.
have fun kill bad guys
confirmed 100%
sorry people, but no C-Store ships or clickies will probably ever be allowed. Only exception was the Varanus because it's the only kdf sci ship and t was free, and the Brel because:
A) It's canon ship/iconic KDF ship, it's weaker than a Heghta.
Sad Pandas PvP - Starfleet Dental Member - Lag Industries Leader
--
"What a time it was, with all the world against us, what a time it was... When all we did seemed wrong,
we've broken all our bonds, but life kept going on, what a time, what a time it was..." - Clem Tholet
Holy TRIBBLE!
If this is the attitude I'm getting out of an idea, I was right about staying in STB. Nothing else to see here then, moving on.
This is not STB : every channel has got its own rules and, although STB and VPvP share the fact that they reject power creep ( in the case of VpVp also spamming) , the core principles are different.
STB is about roleplay and recreating the feeling of tv star trek battles so, of course, by all means you fly the iconic ships like the Galaxy, Defiant and Voyager.
VpVp is about ... old style pvping so to speak, or, better to say, about competing with stuff easily accessible to everyone so that none will have a significant edge just because his credit card could afford the inspirational leader trait or because he's been camping day and night in Dyson bringing dinos to the brink of another extinction.
And rules and restrictions must always be clear in each channel, with very few exceptions : what if I would ask the STB guys whether my KDF Worf toon can use phasers because he was a starfleet officer?
i like the idea behind this kind of pvp but i got a few questions
Bridge officers
No Veteran boffs
Limit 1 Human boff per ship and 1 Nausicaan boff per ship
No boffs with Superior Subterfuge, Infiltrator or Operative allowed
are efficient saurian allowed, and if so, how many?
no using warp core/singularity active powers
is that mean that i can use an mk12 mine or spire warp core but just can't use the clickie power associated?
no traits
even the one that were available at the launch of the game?
like efficient, teckie, warp theorist, accurate, elusive
and finally the most important for me
(9-console non-Cstore in other words)
ok, but that mean that i can't bring my galaxy x??
i known it is a cstore ship but it is not known to be a super duper power creep ship ( quite the contrary actually ) even today with auxtobat build you don't see them often in pvp.
anyway i would like to see what my old pre LOR/auxtobat/doff/console build will do with today meta with it.
I just want to make this clear again. Please don't ask for a C-Store ship to be allowed because [insert reasons]. We have to make a lot of considerations "upstairs" to keep the channel fun and vanilla with the maximum amount of variety.
Also just as a friendly reminder to those wondering about upgrading stuff now that Cryptic are rushing UR Mk XIII to Holodeck, Crafted items are banned in VPvP.
Crafted VeryRare MkX gear and Rare Mk XI with standard mods are ok right? And I mean DMG, CRTH ,CRTD, ACC mods only. Same with Engines, Deflectors, shields, etc...
the ones no one uses too like the mirror star cruiser
The wise man can hear profit in the wind ... :cool:
we are forgetting something which was hated a lot a few weeks ago : crafting.
I am level 15 in beams and science with good chances of crafting often mk X purple stuff and I guess I am not the only one in the Quadrant, so why don't we kind of help each other selling each other mk X purple stuff at a price which is less than current prices but still more than vendor value?
But, as for me, my rules would be :
1. I am not crafting mk X beams or dbbs or such : I have tried and the chances of getting a snare, pvp res, pvp dmg, rapid, anything not allowed mod are too high to make it convenient.
2. I can definitely craft energy consoles, science consoles, deflectors ( don't remember fancy mods in there )
3. fleetmates and friends come first if they need them ... if not, on with the others.
oh, only a flurry suggestion:
if numbers show players are interested, u may include number of channel-participants in the op. just to let everyone know the interest is there .
It takes 15 minutes to 30 minutes to set up a character. It just sorting throught the exchange or your own bank and alt ships for quick gear. Retrain a few boffs of any at all. Take off your traits and doffs. Set your tray and off you go.
hmm... i'll see . can't imagine it'll be that short on the three tacs i fly, but i got a 3 days-old-sci as well that'll work in short time and with some ec. bad thing only: i'm a noob sci .
I just want to make this clear again. Please don't ask for a C-Store ship to be allowed because [insert reasons]. We have to make a lot of considerations "upstairs" to keep the channel fun and vanilla with the maximum amount of variety.
ok so i can forget about the galaxy x.
too bad for you, i give you the only chance to have a nerfed version of me;)
now you force me to use my stock assault cruiser ( the free token one when leveling at level 45, at the time ) wich is the same, but just better ( dreadnought 6base turn/25 inertia, sovy 7base turn/30 inertia ) exept the hangar bay that have been recently added.
anyway, other things came to my mind when i remember the old day.
is the efficient impulse engine allowed? you known this old engine that you get in a mission ( at the time it was only a mark4 item but many of us use it anyway for it bonus, when all the other use the mk10 )
they nerfed it a while back, but we can have acces to a mk10 version now ( the difficulty is to have a mk10 version when you toon is at max level since the gear reward automaticaly scale ).
are cruiser command allowed too? there no mention of that.
i think that all that came to my mind for now, i will dust off my old mk10 purple covariant cap3 from the old day and these old efficient saurian with auxtosif3 i guess....
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I found his thread today and I'm intrigued. I was hoping I could ask for one clarification. The rules say no T5 C-store, and no fleet ships. What's the position on the "sub-fleet" fleet retrofits, i.e. the 9-console ships that cost 200k FCs, like the Corsair or Saber retrofits. I only ask b/c they strike me as being comparable to the other allowable ships.
I'm sorry if this is the 12,000th time this has been asked; I didn't have a chance to read all 30ish pages of the thread.
Thanks for your time.
Generator
=================
I'm sure your DPS is great, but as Kahless said, "a petaQ with high system mastery is still a petaQ." (Well, he should have said it...!)
I found his thread today and I'm intrigued. I was hoping I could ask for one clarification. The rules say no T5 C-store, and no fleet ships. What's the position on the "sub-fleet" fleet retrofits, i.e. the 9-console ships that cost 200k FCs, like the Corsair or Saber retrofits. I only ask b/c they strike me as being comparable to the other allowable ships.
I'm sorry if this is the 12,000th time this has been asked; I didn't have a chance to read all 30ish pages of the thread.
Thanks for your time.
Generator
Right now no fleet ships, even 9-console ones, are allowed.
... Don't take me wrong, but I'm actually saying this as a compliment... This is a nail that stuck out on the other side of the board.
^ This, obviously, made me curious about it so I need to ask a few things first... (more if needed)
1) From the T5 ships that was said as "allowed" on the topic's 1st post, would that automatically exclude any C-Store Oddyssey? If it excludes those Oddysseys, can you give me an example of a T5 that's definitely allowed? (Cruisers, prefferably).
2) Below T5, I have like 1 ship per Tier (excluding shuttles because they're actually meant for personnel transport, even though they have limited combat capabilities)... I happen to have a Sovereign Class Refit, and not the Galaxy. Would my Sovereign be allowed?
3) A practical situation: a Cruiser is basically a mobile weapons array platform. As such, because of their size, those 8 weapon slots the game provides aren't enough to describe how a Cruiser is meant to be. So, I get myself a Point Defense System, giving me 4 extra Phaser Turret arrays. Would that one be allowed as well? (Didn't find anything on the 1st post about it, nor I've read the other 31 pages of posts...)
4) I haven't noticed any exponential (yes, because there is a slight difference between higher rarity and higher Mks on equipment) difference between Mk XII and Mk XI, including higher rarities and equivalent ones. I understand, for example, putting a limit on all of the extra stuff that has been implemented by the devs that caused most of the current unbalancing on PvP... I also understand the Universal Consoles not being allowed... Why the weaponry limit set to Mk XI rare?
5) Taking in consideration the extensive testing I did today, that Escort-type ships have been boosted by 2.75x, science ships are nerfed by 1.60x and cruisers are nerfed by 4.50x, and if the intent is to keep PvP as properly balanced as possible, mixing escorts that are -supposed to hit- with heavy cannons around 1200 per connected hit (These values are the ones inside the map, with proper damage consoles, weapon power at maximum and captain skills applied) as the item description states but is instead hitting the target almost 4x the descripted damaged with absolutely no bridge officer/captain active damage buffs applied (which makes PvP by itself naturally unbalanced) automatically would make a match unbalanced by itself, and extremely frustrating, would that also make it ship class specific instead of just Tier specific?
(Side Note: my 5th question is NOT intended as a way to start flaming about ship classes and that cruisers are supposed to be nerfed. This is from extremely extensive testing that I have done during the past 3 months, on shield hardness, damage resistances and offensive capabilities on all 3 ship classes. Adquired data will drown any counter-argument available or in the making until new testing session starts after DR goes live.)
6) Returning to T5 ships, does that include Klingon ships that have Battle Cloaks? (Curiosity only)
7) Not that I have something against it, but why excluding the use of Omni-Directional Arrays if only one can be installed? Of course, ppl will try to make a rainbow all-beam build with Omni-Directional Arrays if they're allowed... However, why not allowing the use of a single, forced tech oriented, faction specific Omni-Directional Array? (For example, Federation ships are more suited for Phaser tech, Klingons for Disruptors, Romulans for Plasma, Breen and Jem'Hadar for Polaron, etc...) Why shouldn't they use an Omni-Directional Beam Array limited to "Very Rare" rarity level, just because there isn't a lower rarity level? Every ship has the hardpoint array for it.
(Side-Note: 7th question isn't just a basic question, its also meant as a suggestion for a rule. If thought properly, one Omni-Directional isn't going to make a difference on a practical match since ppl will still be stuck with another, or more, beam weapon that isn't Omni-Directional. Its the same as putting Phaser Turrets on a ship.)
... It will take me a bit more time to find more questions to ask, but these should be enough to entice (or kill) my future interest. If the devs are interested in discussing, and testing, things on-the-fly ingame, mail @ksobanana. I'll be happy to help if it will improve the idea itself. Btw, living in EU on GMT+0 if it'll help realtime chat ingame happen.
... Don't take me wrong, but I'm actually saying this as a compliment... This is a nail that stuck out on the other side of the board.
^ This, obviously, made me curious about it so I need to ask a few things first... (more if needed)
1) From the T5 ships that was said as "allowed" on the topic's 1st post, would that automatically exclude any C-Store Oddyssey? If it excludes those Oddysseys, can you give me an example of a T5 that's definitely allowed? (Cruisers, prefferably).
2) Below T5, I have like 1 ship per Tier (excluding shuttles because they're actually meant for personnel transport, even though they have limited combat capabilities)... I happen to have a Sovereign Class Refit, and not the Galaxy. Would my Sovereign be allowed?
3) A practical situation: a Cruiser is basically a mobile weapons array platform. As such, because of their size, those 8 weapon slots the game provides aren't enough to describe how a Cruiser is meant to be. So, I get myself a Point Defense System, giving me 4 extra Phaser Turret arrays. Would that one be allowed as well? (Didn't find anything on the 1st post about it, nor I've read the other 31 pages of posts...)
4) I haven't noticed any exponential (yes, because there is a slight difference between higher rarity and higher Mks on equipment) difference between Mk XII and Mk XI, including higher rarities and equivalent ones. I understand, for example, putting a limit on all of the extra stuff that has been implemented by the devs that caused most of the current unbalancing on PvP... I also understand the Universal Consoles not being allowed... Why the weaponry limit set to Mk XI rare?
5) Taking in consideration the extensive testing I did today, that Escort-type ships have been boosted by 2.75x, science ships are nerfed by 1.60x and cruisers are nerfed by 4.50x, and if the intent is to keep PvP as properly balanced as possible, mixing escorts that are -supposed to hit- with heavy cannons around 1200 per connected hit (These values are the ones inside the map, with proper damage consoles, weapon power at maximum and captain skills applied) as the item description states but is instead hitting the target almost 4x the descripted damaged with absolutely no bridge officer/captain active damage buffs applied (which makes PvP by itself naturally unbalanced) automatically would make a match unbalanced by itself, and extremely frustrating, would that also make it ship class specific instead of just Tier specific?
(Side Note: my 5th question is NOT intended as a way to start flaming about ship classes and that cruisers are supposed to be nerfed. This is from extremely extensive testing that I have done during the past 3 months, on shield hardness, damage resistances and offensive capabilities on all 3 ship classes. Adquired data will drown any counter-argument available or in the making until new testing session starts after DR goes live.)
6) Returning to T5 ships, does that include Klingon ships that have Battle Cloaks? (Curiosity only)
7) Not that I have something against it, but why excluding the use of Omni-Directional Arrays if only one can be installed? Of course, ppl will try to make a rainbow all-beam build with Omni-Directional Arrays if they're allowed... However, why not allowing the use of a single, forced tech oriented, faction specific Omni-Directional Array? (For example, Federation ships are more suited for Phaser tech, Klingons for Disruptors, Romulans for Plasma, Breen and Jem'Hadar for Polaron, etc...) Why shouldn't they use an Omni-Directional Beam Array limited to "Very Rare" rarity level, just because there isn't a lower rarity level? Every ship has the hardpoint array for it.
(Side-Note: 7th question isn't just a basic question, its also meant as a suggestion for a rule. If thought properly, one Omni-Directional isn't going to make a difference on a practical match since ppl will still be stuck with another, or more, beam weapon that isn't Omni-Directional. Its the same as putting Phaser Turrets on a ship.)
... It will take me a bit more time to find more questions to ask, but these should be enough to entice (or kill) my future interest. If the devs are interested in discussing, and testing, things on-the-fly ingame, mail @ksobanana. I'll be happy to help if it will improve the idea itself. Btw, living in EU on GMT+0 if it'll help realtime chat ingame happen.
1. The only T5 ones that are allowed are the mirror ships purchasable from the exchange (e.g. Mirror Star Cruiser), and the free ones you pick up when you reach level 40 (e.g. Assault Cruiser, no refit). There are certain exceptions listed in the OP.
2. IIRC, the Sovereign Class Refit (Assault Cruiser Refit) is T5 C-Store and would not be allowed.
3. No universal consoles are allowed, hence the Point Defense Console is not allowed.
4. The original limit was Mk X purple, which was seen to be more or less equivalent to Mk XI blue. Essentially, they're cheap, so people can just grab equipment on the cheap and get in easily. Mk XII has an advantage, no matter how small, and I think the channel holders don't want that.
5. What is your data composed of? If it is merely DPS, then it is definitely unreliable. How are your figures calculated? Have they taken the greater hull capacity/shielding capacity and regen of cruisers/science vessels into consideration? What about the greater capacity for defensive abilities? Power bonuses? Debuff capacity? I have significant doubts about your interpretation of the data, given the lack of elaboration and the fact that they clash with my personal experience.
6. Yep, the Hegh'ta and B'Rel retrofit are allowed.
7. Again, the channel tries to keep things cheap and simple. Besides the mission Antiproton array, 360 arrays are expensive, especially compared to the costs of the other equipment. Someone having one has an advantage over someone who doesn't, for the same build - so yeah, no.
5) Taking in consideration the extensive testing I did today, that Escort-type ships have been boosted by 2.75x, science ships are nerfed by 1.60x and cruisers are nerfed by 4.50x,
My guess: Most players (in the channel) wish to have old school dogfight matches with escorts. At least that's the impression I got so far from lurking in the channel and seeing callouts only for (players with) escorts. Thanks to my next semester starting I haven't been able to play much this week and might have got the wrong impression though.
Regarding Cruisers: I don't think cruisers are nerfed that hard. Keep in mind that alot of the current strength of escorts comes from the ability to chain emergency powers, which allows them to have high(er) shield resistance and maximum defense. The escorts that are currently allowed in VPvP aren't able to chain emergency powers though. Cruisers on the other hand could do that. And some allowed ones even got Cmdr and LtCmdr eng slots, which would allow them to chain EptX of level 2 and 3. I think Cruisers actually have alot of potential under those rules. I was actually thinking about doing something with single cannons and turrets...
My guess: Most players (in the channel) wish to have old school dogfight matches with escorts. At least that's the impression I got so far from lurking in the channel and seeing callouts only for (players with) escorts.
quite the contrary actually.
escorts seem to be doing the best burst damage/kill shots
cruisers seem to be the best at suppression and healing/tanking
and sci ships seem to be the vast majority of crowd control and debuffing.....
5) Taking in consideration the extensive testing I did today, that Escort-type ships have been boosted by 2.75x, science ships are nerfed by 1.60x and cruisers are nerfed by 4.50x [...]
(Side Note: my 5th question is NOT intended as a way to start flaming about ship classes and that cruisers are supposed to be nerfed. This is from extremely extensive testing that I have done during the past 3 months]
2.75x, 1.60x, 4.50x = :eek:
WTH did you test?! Exhaust emission values, aerodynamic drag in an air duct, painting, rims? Lol?!
I just wanted to commend you on your channel creation of VPvP.
It's great to see someone like your self taking the iniative to keep STO fun again.
I have created the Star Trek Battles with sort of the same thing in mind.
I myself am not a PvPer but have done so in the past within the channel with it's Dominion War and Raider battles. Keeping it fair all around has created some good ol' fashioned battles.
I wish you all the success with your channel, if you ever feel like downing the DPS and run a canon loadout... check out STB.
Comments
just no clickies.
my apologies to those that would like to see them in the way we are trying to pvp in this channel.....whether it be via ship or mission or rep or be it whatever.
anything that can make your ship superior via the click of the mouse.....
we just do not want to see in this channel.
there are the regular queues for that if you wish to go that route. for me, i plan to do both.
but here.... we will stick to as close to pure as we can reasonably agree to.
have fun kill bad guys
confirmed 100%
sorry people, but no C-Store ships or clickies will probably ever be allowed. Only exception was the Varanus because it's the only kdf sci ship and t was free, and the Brel because:
A) It's canon ship/iconic KDF ship,
we've broken all our bonds, but life kept going on, what a time, what a time it was..." - Clem Tholet
This is not STB : every channel has got its own rules and, although STB and VPvP share the fact that they reject power creep ( in the case of VpVp also spamming) , the core principles are different.
STB is about roleplay and recreating the feeling of tv star trek battles so, of course, by all means you fly the iconic ships like the Galaxy, Defiant and Voyager.
VpVp is about ... old style pvping so to speak, or, better to say, about competing with stuff easily accessible to everyone so that none will have a significant edge just because his credit card could afford the inspirational leader trait or because he's been camping day and night in Dyson bringing dinos to the brink of another extinction.
And rules and restrictions must always be clear in each channel, with very few exceptions : what if I would ask the STB guys whether my KDF Worf toon can use phasers because he was a starfleet officer?
are efficient saurian allowed, and if so, how many?
is that mean that i can use an mk12 mine or spire warp core but just can't use the clickie power associated?
even the one that were available at the launch of the game?
like efficient, teckie, warp theorist, accurate, elusive
and finally the most important for me
ok, but that mean that i can't bring my galaxy x??
i known it is a cstore ship but it is not known to be a super duper power creep ship ( quite the contrary actually ) even today with auxtobat build you don't see them often in pvp.
anyway i would like to see what my old pre LOR/auxtobat/doff/console build will do with today meta with it.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
And more videos are coming
- Saurian allowed, no limit
- Equipment up to Mk XI blue is allowed, no fleet items
- No traits
yeah...mirror ships shot up in price yesterday...
seriously...mirror ships...
the ones no one uses too like the mirror star cruiser
Not including any console that comes with the ship.
I can think of a couple but it's not many,
Patrol refit
Avenger
Mogh
Guramba (maybe)
Now Romulan c-store ship are a different story.
≡/\≡
Yes .
The wise man can hear profit in the wind ...
we are forgetting something which was hated a lot a few weeks ago : crafting.
I am level 15 in beams and science with good chances of crafting often mk X purple stuff and I guess I am not the only one in the Quadrant, so why don't we kind of help each other selling each other mk X purple stuff at a price which is less than current prices but still more than vendor value?
But, as for me, my rules would be :
1. I am not crafting mk X beams or dbbs or such : I have tried and the chances of getting a snare, pvp res, pvp dmg, rapid, anything not allowed mod are too high to make it convenient.
2. I can definitely craft energy consoles, science consoles, deflectors ( don't remember fancy mods in there )
3. fleetmates and friends come first if they need them ... if not, on with the others.
Your thoughts?
@MrWastee
oh, only a flurry suggestion:
if numbers show players are interested, u may include number of channel-participants in the op. just to let everyone know the interest is there
hmm... i'll see
ok so i can forget about the galaxy x.
too bad for you, i give you the only chance to have a nerfed version of me;)
now you force me to use my stock assault cruiser ( the free token one when leveling at level 45, at the time ) wich is the same, but just better ( dreadnought 6base turn/25 inertia, sovy 7base turn/30 inertia ) exept the hangar bay that have been recently added.
anyway, other things came to my mind when i remember the old day.
is the efficient impulse engine allowed? you known this old engine that you get in a mission ( at the time it was only a mark4 item but many of us use it anyway for it bonus, when all the other use the mk10 )
they nerfed it a while back, but we can have acces to a mk10 version now ( the difficulty is to have a mk10 version when you toon is at max level since the gear reward automaticaly scale ).
are cruiser command allowed too? there no mention of that.
i think that all that came to my mind for now, i will dust off my old mk10 purple covariant cap3 from the old day and these old efficient saurian with auxtosif3 i guess....
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
same with torpedoes - you'll never see one with [Pen] show up until cryptic gets off their lazy TRIBBLE and fixes it all
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
@NEO_NX
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
I found his thread today and I'm intrigued. I was hoping I could ask for one clarification. The rules say no T5 C-store, and no fleet ships. What's the position on the "sub-fleet" fleet retrofits, i.e. the 9-console ships that cost 200k FCs, like the Corsair or Saber retrofits. I only ask b/c they strike me as being comparable to the other allowable ships.
I'm sorry if this is the 12,000th time this has been asked; I didn't have a chance to read all 30ish pages of the thread.
Thanks for your time.
Generator
I'm sure your DPS is great, but as Kahless said, "a petaQ with high system mastery is still a petaQ." (Well, he should have said it...!)
Right now no fleet ships, even 9-console ones, are allowed.
Have a good one.
Generator
I'm sure your DPS is great, but as Kahless said, "a petaQ with high system mastery is still a petaQ." (Well, he should have said it...!)
^ This, obviously, made me curious about it so I need to ask a few things first... (more if needed)
1) From the T5 ships that was said as "allowed" on the topic's 1st post, would that automatically exclude any C-Store Oddyssey? If it excludes those Oddysseys, can you give me an example of a T5 that's definitely allowed? (Cruisers, prefferably).
2) Below T5, I have like 1 ship per Tier (excluding shuttles because they're actually meant for personnel transport, even though they have limited combat capabilities)... I happen to have a Sovereign Class Refit, and not the Galaxy. Would my Sovereign be allowed?
3) A practical situation: a Cruiser is basically a mobile weapons array platform. As such, because of their size, those 8 weapon slots the game provides aren't enough to describe how a Cruiser is meant to be. So, I get myself a Point Defense System, giving me 4 extra Phaser Turret arrays. Would that one be allowed as well? (Didn't find anything on the 1st post about it, nor I've read the other 31 pages of posts...)
4) I haven't noticed any exponential (yes, because there is a slight difference between higher rarity and higher Mks on equipment) difference between Mk XII and Mk XI, including higher rarities and equivalent ones. I understand, for example, putting a limit on all of the extra stuff that has been implemented by the devs that caused most of the current unbalancing on PvP... I also understand the Universal Consoles not being allowed... Why the weaponry limit set to Mk XI rare?
5) Taking in consideration the extensive testing I did today, that Escort-type ships have been boosted by 2.75x, science ships are nerfed by 1.60x and cruisers are nerfed by 4.50x, and if the intent is to keep PvP as properly balanced as possible, mixing escorts that are -supposed to hit- with heavy cannons around 1200 per connected hit (These values are the ones inside the map, with proper damage consoles, weapon power at maximum and captain skills applied) as the item description states but is instead hitting the target almost 4x the descripted damaged with absolutely no bridge officer/captain active damage buffs applied (which makes PvP by itself naturally unbalanced) automatically would make a match unbalanced by itself, and extremely frustrating, would that also make it ship class specific instead of just Tier specific?
(Side Note: my 5th question is NOT intended as a way to start flaming about ship classes and that cruisers are supposed to be nerfed. This is from extremely extensive testing that I have done during the past 3 months, on shield hardness, damage resistances and offensive capabilities on all 3 ship classes. Adquired data will drown any counter-argument available or in the making until new testing session starts after DR goes live.)
6) Returning to T5 ships, does that include Klingon ships that have Battle Cloaks? (Curiosity only)
7) Not that I have something against it, but why excluding the use of Omni-Directional Arrays if only one can be installed? Of course, ppl will try to make a rainbow all-beam build with Omni-Directional Arrays if they're allowed... However, why not allowing the use of a single, forced tech oriented, faction specific Omni-Directional Array? (For example, Federation ships are more suited for Phaser tech, Klingons for Disruptors, Romulans for Plasma, Breen and Jem'Hadar for Polaron, etc...) Why shouldn't they use an Omni-Directional Beam Array limited to "Very Rare" rarity level, just because there isn't a lower rarity level? Every ship has the hardpoint array for it.
(Side-Note: 7th question isn't just a basic question, its also meant as a suggestion for a rule. If thought properly, one Omni-Directional isn't going to make a difference on a practical match since ppl will still be stuck with another, or more, beam weapon that isn't Omni-Directional. Its the same as putting Phaser Turrets on a ship.)
... It will take me a bit more time to find more questions to ask, but these should be enough to entice (or kill) my future interest. If the devs are interested in discussing, and testing, things on-the-fly ingame, mail @ksobanana. I'll be happy to help if it will improve the idea itself. Btw, living in EU on GMT+0 if it'll help realtime chat ingame happen.
1. The only T5 ones that are allowed are the mirror ships purchasable from the exchange (e.g. Mirror Star Cruiser), and the free ones you pick up when you reach level 40 (e.g. Assault Cruiser, no refit). There are certain exceptions listed in the OP.
2. IIRC, the Sovereign Class Refit (Assault Cruiser Refit) is T5 C-Store and would not be allowed.
3. No universal consoles are allowed, hence the Point Defense Console is not allowed.
4. The original limit was Mk X purple, which was seen to be more or less equivalent to Mk XI blue. Essentially, they're cheap, so people can just grab equipment on the cheap and get in easily. Mk XII has an advantage, no matter how small, and I think the channel holders don't want that.
5. What is your data composed of? If it is merely DPS, then it is definitely unreliable. How are your figures calculated? Have they taken the greater hull capacity/shielding capacity and regen of cruisers/science vessels into consideration? What about the greater capacity for defensive abilities? Power bonuses? Debuff capacity? I have significant doubts about your interpretation of the data, given the lack of elaboration and the fact that they clash with my personal experience.
6. Yep, the Hegh'ta and B'Rel retrofit are allowed.
7. Again, the channel tries to keep things cheap and simple. Besides the mission Antiproton array, 360 arrays are expensive, especially compared to the costs of the other equipment. Someone having one has an advantage over someone who doesn't, for the same build - so yeah, no.
Mk XI blue is cheap to get. Some of it can even be obtained from mission replays. Which lowers the entry barrier.
My guess: Most players (in the channel) wish to have old school dogfight matches with escorts. At least that's the impression I got so far from lurking in the channel and seeing callouts only for (players with) escorts. Thanks to my next semester starting I haven't been able to play much this week and might have got the wrong impression though.
Regarding Cruisers: I don't think cruisers are nerfed that hard. Keep in mind that alot of the current strength of escorts comes from the ability to chain emergency powers, which allows them to have high(er) shield resistance and maximum defense. The escorts that are currently allowed in VPvP aren't able to chain emergency powers though. Cruisers on the other hand could do that. And some allowed ones even got Cmdr and LtCmdr eng slots, which would allow them to chain EptX of level 2 and 3. I think Cruisers actually have alot of potential under those rules. I was actually thinking about doing something with single cannons and turrets...
quite the contrary actually.
escorts seem to be doing the best burst damage/kill shots
cruisers seem to be the best at suppression and healing/tanking
and sci ships seem to be the vast majority of crowd control and debuffing.....
who would have thought?
have fun kill bad guys
2.75x, 1.60x, 4.50x = :eek:
WTH did you test?! Exhaust emission values, aerodynamic drag in an air duct, painting, rims? Lol?!
Some nice arbitrary quantifications... Lol.
I just wanted to commend you on your channel creation of VPvP.
It's great to see someone like your self taking the iniative to keep STO fun again.
I have created the Star Trek Battles with sort of the same thing in mind.
I myself am not a PvPer but have done so in the past within the channel with it's Dominion War and Raider battles. Keeping it fair all around has created some good ol' fashioned battles.
I wish you all the success with your channel, if you ever feel like downing the DPS and run a canon loadout... check out STB.
Great work again Captain 07