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VPvP - Fun, fair, vanilla PvP

voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
edited October 2016 in PvP Gameplay
I have started a channel called VPvP for the vanilla PvP idea I suggested. It is for forming PvP with basic ships and gear in a fun and balanced environment. We are also trying to get a ground section started.

We can have any kind of games we want, like a classic T5 deathmatch (the usual format), or first guy to evasive out of 15km forfeits, or T2s vs the T5, etc. PM me or another admin with your in-game handle for an invite.

Admins/Ops:
Note: The views and opinions of these folks do not necessarily represent those of VPvP as a whole, except for those explicitly stated by me (Voporak) to represent VPvP.

Current member count: 110

The rules are as follows (see bottom of rules for ground):

Space

Ships
  • Ship tier depends on whatever match we want to do - could be T2, 3, 4, or basic 5 (free leveling ships and mirror. Nothing from fleet shipyards, such as the Odyssey)
  • The channel standard is plain T5/mirror (9-console non-Cstore in other words) unless otherwise agreed upon by match participants
  • Just in case you didn't get that, only free Rear Admial ships from leveling up and mirror ships are allowed, except for the few C-Store exceptions
  • no Obelisk
  • no Dyson ships from the anniversary event
  • And let me make this abundantly clear: Please do not ask for a particular C-Store ship to be allowed, because we are only allowing certain ones in after specific consideration.
  • In other words, I'm not interested in whatever justification or argument for a C-store ship, because said justification will not be taken into consideration.
  • See bottom of rules for full list of ships

Equipment
  • Equipment up to Mk XI blue is allowed (Mk XI blue is equivalent to Mk X purple). One-off Mk XI purple items from missions like Hargh'Peng are allowed (fun fact, Hargh'Peng used to be blue quality)
  • Storyline sets (Breen, Jem'hadar) are banned. This includes stuff like the Obelisk warp core, but does not include one-off pieces like the Paratrinic shield array
  • no preorder items allowed (Red matter capacitor for example)
  • If [Borg] weapons ever existed as Mk X and someone has them, they are allowed
  • no Reman shield from the story mission
  • no quad cannons
  • no universal consoles
  • no omni beams
  • no Nimbus pirates
  • no Jevonite hardpoints
  • no Scorpion fighters from the Vault mission
  • no Devidian phase modulator
  • no deuterium
  • no Breen cluster torp
  • no tractor mines
  • Carrier pets: See ship list
  • batteries are okay

Bridge officers
  • No boffs with the rare Veteran trait
  • Limit 1 Human boff per ship and 1 Nausicaan boff per ship, OR 1 Hierarchy boff per ship (they have efficient and pirate)
  • No boffs with Superior Subterfuge, Infiltrator or Operative allowed
  • Saurians with Efficient are allowed

General
  • no starship traits
  • Romulans allowed
  • no using warp core/singularity active powers
  • no Romulans using fleet support as the NPC can use tractor mines
  • no rep passives/actives
  • no traits - this means all must be unslotted
  • no doffs
  • no items with special crafted traits
  • no fleet items
  • no reputation items
  • no C-store items (ships are not items; see ship section)
  • nothing that comes out of lockbox at all (except mirror ships)
  • nothing from the lobi store at all
  • be courteous
  • be honorable

Most recent rule changes

The Gateway thing is needed so that we can check ship gear before matches. This system relies on honor, and unfortunately there are some people who are not honorable. If anyone is caught intentionally breaking these rules (we will be able to tell if it's intentional. If you're all strapped up with clicky consoles and stuff we would see during a fight, you probably just forgot to swap your stuff), you get a first warning and a kick from the channel a second time.

Allowable ships

Benchmark ship builds:
U.S.S. Takei - Galaxy Refit (T4)
VPvP Basic Escort - Mirror Patrol Escort
magusmirror1 - Mirror Deep Space Science Vessel
Gio's Hax Drain B'Rel

Match recordings:
First 5v5


If you think that it could be annoying or bad because it could cost a few million ec, let me put it in perspective. To do normal PvP after DR, you need:
In order to be competitive with a new character, we will soon have to be:
  • Completing 6 reputation systems with a minimum of 40 days completion time.
  • Obtaining gear from all 6 reputation systems with 500-1000 marks per item.
  • Obtaining approximately 500,000 fleet credits worth in gear/items for viability (duty officer active roster, consoles, kits, ,etc.)
  • Crafting through 7 (space)/1 (ground) crafting trees with a minimum completion time of ~4 months
  • Obtaining a viable Tier VI starship (or soon to be obsolete Tier V/Fleet Tier V/Tier V-U ship).
  • Obtaining extremely expensive duty officers ranging from 2M to 80M energy credits each.
  • Upgrading 25+ individual items to Mk XIV legendary via the new upgrade system.
  • Upgrading each individual starship to rank IV-V
  • Leveling a level 50 character to level 60 through the slower 50-60 progression system.

In VPvP, you need:
  • A low tier ship(s)
  • EC bought gear totaling no more than 4M ec (as I understand it, this estimate has gone up due to VPvP become more common knowledge and market prices for vanilla gear being hiked)
  • A little bit of optional extra dilithium to buy a C-store low tier ship, though it is unecessary.
cbrjwrr wrote: »
For anyone undecided, the key benefits:

Cost - 3-4 million EC Maximum (in other words, two master keys, so 3 characters Dil grind for a couple days at current Dil/Zen rates) and the ship you picked up while levelling and you have a competitive PvP build - normal PvP builds you would be lucky if you only spent 100 times that to be as competitive.


Balance - because of the restrictions, all the stuff that causes normal PvP to be a somewhat unbalanced mess isn't allowed. This is one of the few places in STO where, for example, a Galaxy is as valid a player choice as a Defiant.


Very easy to enter - You could do this with a fresh level 50 and have a good match, no need to level any reps, or do lots of grinding. (apart from one day to sort your equipment out ^)

If you like VPvP, you may also be interested in Star Trek Battles, a channel made with very similar rules but for PvE.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1026351



Ground

See this thread for discussion of VGPvP rules:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1267781
I ask nothing but that you remember me.
Post edited by voporak on
«134567…29

Comments

  • Options
    rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    What about elite pets? There's a few flight deck cruisers that could sport elite interceptors.

    Also, sounds like fun :)
  • Options
    voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    rmy1081 wrote: »
    What about elite pets? There's a few flight deck cruisers that could sport elite interceptors.

    Also, sounds like fun :)

    Ah yes, no elite pets. We'll cap it at rare quality for them.

    BTW, what's your in-game handle? Don't remember if I invited you.
    I ask nothing but that you remember me.
  • Options
    janus1975janus1975 Member Posts: 739 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Have sent a PM with my handle.

    As an idea, how about we build some "benchmark" ships in STO Academy for it? The notes section could be an explanatory, and it would give people a good visual representation of what a ship status window should look like. I would suggest for example, one each of escort, cruiser, and science ship. Happy to put these together if you wish.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    janus1975 wrote: »
    Have sent a PM with my handle.

    As an idea, how about we build some "benchmark" ships in STO Academy for it? The notes section could be an explanatory, and it would give people a good visual representation of what a ship status window should look like. I would suggest for example, one each of escort, cruiser, and science ship. Happy to put these together if you wish.

    That would be an excellent idea.
    I ask nothing but that you remember me.
  • Options
    rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    voporak wrote: »
    Ah yes, no elite pets. We'll cap it at rare quality for them.

    BTW, what's your in-game handle? Don't remember if I invited you.

    my handle is, @RMY1081
  • Options
    jarodroto123jarodroto123 Member Posts: 1,337 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    edalgo wrote: »
    @edalgo

    I still have eligible ships

    EDIT: List of Admins
  • Options
    jarodroto123jarodroto123 Member Posts: 1,337 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    deokkent wrote: »
    Very very interesting.
    It's also a good idea to set up a date. I will send my info as soon as I get back in game.

    this isnt neccesarily a set date, its a channel so we can try and find matches for this whenever
  • Options
    cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    @cbrjwrr. .
  • Options
    jarodroto123jarodroto123 Member Posts: 1,337 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    @cbrjwrr. .

    itll be a while before im in game, hopefully voporak catches this before then :P
  • Options
    pcscipiopcscipio Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    i'm in.

    @pcscipio
  • Options
    thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Considering we don't have the old Dilithium store for consoles anymore, I guess this means having to go buy it on the exchange?

    (NO CRAFTED ITEMS)

    I think that puts me right out-I've been muling one of my toons to make consoles and other 'blank space on the sheet' items for my lower-level toons (Instead of buying them.)

    You can get scads of stuff mk x very cheep love long time.

    Need a hand getting any shoot me a list in game mail @thissler
  • Options
    jarodroto123jarodroto123 Member Posts: 1,337 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Considering we don't have the old Dilithium store for consoles anymore, I guess this means having to go buy it on the exchange?

    (NO CRAFTED ITEMS)

    I think that puts me right out-I've been muling one of my toons to make consoles and other 'blank space on the sheet' items for my lower-level toons (Instead of buying them.)

    by no crafted items we simply mean no items with crafting mods on them
  • Options
    voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    jarodroto123 wrote: »
    by no crafted items we simply mean no items with crafting mods on them

    Yes.

    By the way, I outfitted the build I linked in the OP for roughly 1.5M ec. I bought up the last Phaser Turret Mk X [Acc]x3 on the exchange, if anyone wants it PM me.
    I ask nothing but that you remember me.
  • Options
    voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Everyone who has asked for an invite so far is invited.
    I ask nothing but that you remember me.
  • Options
    jarodroto123jarodroto123 Member Posts: 1,337 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    voporak wrote: »
    Yes.

    By the way, I outfitted the build I linked in the OP for roughly 1.5M ec. I bought up the last Phaser Turret Mk X [Acc]x3 on the exchange, if anyone wants it PM me.

    cornering the market :P
  • Options
    shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Lol, I like that someone else thought of this as well, I was going to call it Old School PVP, or OSP!

    My concept involved something similar.

    No elite pets (normal-advanced only)
    No fleet/Rep gear or ships
    No Universal consoles at all, except Fed cloaking device
    No doffs
    MK XII gear allowed, no Hybrids (standard VR phaser/disruptor/tetryon/polaron/plasma only)
    No Rom/Rem/Naus boffs
    No lobi/lockbox anything (mirror ships excluded)
    No traits
    No Crafted specialty gear (meaning additional mods not on standard gear)
    No 360 beam arrays
    No singularity core abilities used
    Torpedoes/mines of normality only (photon/quantum/transphasic/tricobalt/chroniton/plasma)
    All C-store/mirror/Event ships are allowed (Tier equivalent to match others only)
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • Options
    janus1975janus1975 Member Posts: 739 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    In terms of build cost, I put together a Captain-level Venture Class (c-store Galaxy) using Mk X Blue equipment. It's the USS Takei.

    I put notes into it to explain what I did but the upshot is the build cost a little under 600,000 ec using my self-imposed build rules. It's the sort of build that should hopefully be accessible to most players.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    mancommancom Member Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I wonder whether this will succeed this time.

    Some kind of ClassicPVP has been proposed before. The oldest codified version is probably from January 2013: Proposed ClassicPVP Rules
    (This version had a heavy S1.2 vibe.)

    I've seen this idea come up multiple times since then (with minor modifications) and unfortunately it never really took off.
    1042856
  • Options
    jjdezjjdez Member Posts: 570 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    @jjdez

    My only comment would be to remove the Subspace Field Modulator, as there would be no downside to it with no proton firing gear/weapons allowed.
  • Options
    rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    edalgo wrote: »
    You of all people should know that we can't wait for the Devs to do anything positive or productive for the PvP community.

    If this channel succeeds in acquiring a following then it's Vanilla PvP with hardly ANY grinding required. Set up your ship, get your equipment, it won't go obsolete and all new TRIBBLE is banned anyway.

    Very low entry costs. Can be done with all free gear and low cost items.

    It might be the only way I continue to log into STO after DR.

    I agree

    Although we'll see if they tweak the crafting prices, DR may be the best time for vanilla PvP
  • Options
    pcscipiopcscipio Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    edalgo wrote: »
    Free 2 Players can compete!

    Level a new character in a few days and you're not still months away from being competitive.
    voporak wrote: »
    I have started a channel called VPvP for the vanilla PvP idea I suggested. It is for starting PvP matches without needing the best uber gear, and eliminates all the garbage and power creep of normal PvP. The rules are as follows:

    -Ship tier depends on whatever match we want to do - could be T2, 3, 4, or basic 5 (like mirror ships). The channel standard is T4 unless otherwise agreed upon by match participants
    -you must be set to visible on Gateway
    -no gear above Mk X
    -no rep passives/actives
    -no traits
    -no reputation items
    -no C-store items, unless it is something inconsequential such as quad cannons or 180 torpedoes
    -no universal consoles
    -nothing that comes out of lockbox in general
    -nothing from the lobi store at all
    -no doffs
    -no crafted items
    -no omni beams
    -no fleet stuff
    -no Nimbus pirates
    -no Jevonite hardpoints
    -no Scorpion fighters from the Vault mission
    -batteries and that Devidian phase thing are okay
    -Romulans allowed, but no boffs with Infiltrator or Operative allowed.
    -no using warp core/singularity active powers
    -pets on flight deck cruisers restricted to max of blue quality, and only the "classic" ones - like, no swarmers, widow fighters, etc. that have been introduced since lock boxes
    -C-store T2, 3, 4 ships allowed
    -be courteous
    -be honorable

    PM me or another admin with your in-game handle for an invite. The Gateway thing is needed so that we can check ship gear before matches. This system relies on honor, and unfortunately there are some people who are not honorable. If anyone is caught intentionally breaking these rules (we will be able to tell if it's intentional. If you're all strapped up with clicky consoles and stuff we would see during a fight, you probably just forgot to swap your stuff), you get a first warning and a kick from the channel a second time.

    We can have any kind of games we want, like a classic T4 deathmatch, or first guy to evasive out of 15km forfeits, or T2s vs the T5, etc.

    Admins/Ops:
    @voporak (owner)
    @jarodroto123 (admin)

    The flagship is my Tactical Escort Refit U.S.S. VPvP, because my ego and I made the channel. Build: U.S.S. VPvP

    Benchmark ship builds:
    U.S.S. Takei - Galaxy Refit


    I loved the ideea, asked for an channel invite and got in.. and then i've looked closer at the rules.
    The most advanced ships allowed are T4 C-Store ships?
    I am not going to buy Puyjaq Raptor for 1500 zen just to be competitve here; i've walk the powercreed path enough, i though this may be different. Maximum level ships must be standard : tier 4 standard ori tier 5 standard (therefore including mirror ships)
    Also quad cannons scales with rank. Seems F2P can compete, but at a disadvantage: no refits and no quads .
  • Options
    cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Umm, Dil for Zen selling. That aside, no one runs the quad cannons, they are a bad weapon anyway, why they were described as inconsequential.


    But F2P will be competitive in this series.
  • Options
    jjdezjjdez Member Posts: 570 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    pcscipio wrote: »
    I loved the ideea, asked for an channel invite and got in.. and then i've looked closer at the rules.
    The most advanced ships allowed are T4 C-Store ships?
    I am not going to buy Puyjaq Raptor for 1500 zen just to be competitve here; i've walk the powercreed path enough, i though this may be different. Maximum level ships must be standard : tier 4 standard ori tier 5 standard (therefore including mirror ships)
    Also quad cannons scales with rank. Seems F2P can compete, but at a disadvantage: no refits and no quads .

    Go grab a mirror ship, they are SUPER cheap. This actually gives them a reason to exist, haha.
  • Options
    pcscipiopcscipio Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    Umm, Dil for Zen selling. That aside, no one runs the quad cannons, they are a bad weapon anyway, why they were described as inconsequential.


    But F2P will be competitive in this series.


    Started on my T2 Cruiser: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=nagasaki_0

    Warp core is subject to the exchange...


    I've got enough Zen, that's beside the point. Quad cannons may be inconsequential against doffed EPtE, turn&speed traits, evasive uber uptime. evasive trait. But with those rules defense is not that good; crth is also only 2.5%. A quad mk xii [dmg]x4 it's not that inconsequential. Neither is the advantage a T4 C-Store Tactical Escort Refit has over a Pach Raptor : an eng ensign and a eng. console. With the zen i'd spent for Puyjaq, i can get 3 T5-U upgrades.
    jjdez wrote: »
    Go grab a mirror ship, they are SUPER cheap. This actually gives them a reason to exist, haha.

    I already got a mirror qin equiped and ready for battle; but those mirror ships are tier 5, not tier 4. Ant it seems tier 4 ships are the standard here, as stated in the OP
  • Options
    voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    pcscipio wrote: »
    I've got enough Zen, that's beside the point. Quad cannons may be inconsequential against doffed EPtE, turn&speed traits, evasive uber uptime. evasive trait. But with those rules defense is not that good; crth is also only 2.5%. A quad mk xii [dmg]x4 it's not that inconsequential. Neither is the advantage a T4 C-Store Tactical Escort Refit has over a Pach Raptor : an eng ensign and a eng. console. With the zen i'd spent for Puyjaq, i can get 3 T5-U upgrades.



    I already got a mirror qin equiped and ready for battle; but those mirror ships are tier 5, not tier 4. Ant it seems tier 4 ships are the standard here, as stated in the OP

    It also says in the OP that matches can be formed of whatever tier, so long as the players forming the match agree to the handshake rules set.

    Edit: after some discussion, quad cannons were banned.
    I ask nothing but that you remember me.
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