The fact is, many of us love the old designs from the shows. We associate Star Trek with ships that were on air or film. When we bought them, we bought retrofits that made canon ships that had tier 5 capabilities instead of tier 4 or 3 or whatever. I think a lot of people are upset that they will fall behind if they want to use the ships they paid for as top of the line.
Fall behind in what? Pve? As has been stated numerous times, by the FAQ, by videos from Tribble, and from people like me who have playtested the Content, you can easily do it in existing ships. You do not need a T5.F Fleet ship to do this Content, let alone a T5U or T6.
The Content in this entire game is balanced for the lowest common denominator. It is designed to be played by a guy in a T5 ship who does 1,000 DPS. This person puts all their weapons on Autofire and then hits the Spacebar when within 10k of their foe. They then fly in a circle around their target, occasionally moving some Shield energy to their exposed side until the target is destroyed.
You and I could spend $50.00 for the exact same Ship Pack yet when we go to play them you are doing 2,000 DPS while I am doing 10,000 DPS - the entire difference based on how we have geared the ships and our individual knowledge of the game. There is no universal standard for anyone to fall behind on, because even equal value things can be inferior to each other.
T5U and T6 are fluff purchases. They are specifically designed to target the psychological need in people to want the best even when you do not need to be the best to achieve your goals. You can Upgrade your existing T5 Galaxy, or whatever, and feel perfectly content in this game that nothing has really changed for you; as long as you can overcome your psychological need to think you need to be the best.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Fall behind in what? Pve? As has been stated numerous times, by the FAQ, by videos from Tribble, and from people like me who have playtested the Content, you can easily do it in existing ships. You do not need a T5.F Fleet ship to do this Content, let alone a T5U or T6.
The Content in this entire game is balanced for the lowest common denominator. It is designed to be played by a guy in a T5 ship who does 1,000 DPS. This person puts all their weapons on Autofire and then hits the Spacebar when within 10k of their foe. They then fly in a circle around their target, occasionally moving some Shield energy to their exposed side until the target is destroyed.
You and I could spend $50.00 for the exact same Ship Pack yet when we go to play them you are doing 2,000 DPS while I am doing 10,000 DPS - the entire difference based on how we have geared the ships and our individual knowledge of the game. There is no universal standard for anyone to fall behind on, because even equal value things can be inferior to each other.
T5U and T6 are fluff purchases. They are specifically designed to target the psychological need in people to want the best even when you do not need to be the best to achieve your goals. You can Upgrade your existing T5 Galaxy, or whatever, and feel perfectly content in this game that nothing has really changed for you; as long as you can overcome your psychological need to think you need to be the best.
I am sensing this post will be ignored in favor of people ranting and raving about made up things.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I am sensing this post will be ignored in favor of people ranting and raving about made up things.
Unfortunately, you're probably right.
thecosmic1 is a forum sage... yet people prefer to wear tinfoil hats and go bananas when things change.
So what? Things change. That's the nature of MMOs. WoW changed several times with their expansions: adding the abilty to fly in Azeroth (Previously only doable in Northrend and Outland), blasting regions of the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor when Deathwing came back, adding Pandaria to the map, adding Northrend to the map back in Wrath of the Lich King... now they're adding an uncorrupted alternate Draenor.
Things change. And with it, comes new things. Maybe they're afraid of change and thus must rip it a new one.
Star Trek Online is one of the best MMO's in my opinion. Even better than TOR, which feels like an even greater grind than this game. They spent all this money of trying to turn it into a Star War Mass Effect/WoW clone and in the end it was just an anverage game. Star Trek online is so easy to get into and really easy to progress and yet it is largly ignored by most and is really underated. The community for this game is aboslutly outstanding.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Exposing fakes since 2374
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,480Community Moderator
edited September 2014
We stand by our game. Me... I'll try to be here until they turn off the lights.
STO does deserve more credit than it gets. Star Wars and WoW get all the attention because they are apparently the poster children for MMOs. STO... should probably get that for the F2P side of MMOs.
Fall behind in what? Pve? As has been stated numerous times, by the FAQ, by videos from Tribble, and from people like me who have playtested the Content, you can easily do it in existing ships. You do not need a T5.F Fleet ship to do this Content, let alone a T5U or T6.
The Content in this entire game is balanced for the lowest common denominator. It is designed to be played by a guy in a T5 ship who does 1,000 DPS. This person puts all their weapons on Autofire and then hits the Spacebar when within 10k of their foe. They then fly in a circle around their target, occasionally moving some Shield energy to their exposed side until the target is destroyed.
You and I could spend $50.00 for the exact same Ship Pack yet when we go to play them you are doing 2,000 DPS while I am doing 10,000 DPS - the entire difference based on how we have geared the ships and our individual knowledge of the game. There is no universal standard for anyone to fall behind on, because even equal value things can be inferior to each other.
T5U and T6 are fluff purchases. They are specifically designed to target the psychological need in people to want the best even when you do not need to be the best to achieve your goals. You can Upgrade your existing T5 Galaxy, or whatever, and feel perfectly content in this game that nothing has really changed for you; as long as you can overcome your psychological need to think you need to be the best.
So very very true.
What gives me hope is that I have seen quite a few star gazers flying around. I really hope cryptic made money off that work and that it inspires more. Its not about power or being the best, that one is a purchase purely for having fun.
If that is what he meant then it is indeed a good point, however you know as well as I do that no matter what original designs Cryptic makes (with CBS's approval) they are still going to get the same outrage they are getting now. There will ALWAYS be loudmouths complaining that the newest ships are ugly and don't look Trek.
which sounds exactly what they were saying about the EntD when it first appeared.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
You may as well ask me what TV shows and movies are set in the Babylon 5 era, or Battlestar Galaxtica era.
Are you saying all future designs should be left up to a random artist who works for a company who has no say or direction of the given franchise?
Please clarify.
It means that's the only option they have, because the only canon ship remaining is the Enterprise J and we're still a couple hundred years away from that.
Then There's outside fans like me who came in because of STO, I was never a fan of the IP ship designs, but than again my first exposure was Enterprise-D. Now that being said, I do appreciate and love the IP designs now, even the Galaxy Class. But The Galaxy Class is still my least favorite design, but that doesn't mean I want it banned from the game.
Also it feels nice to embrace your closet trekkie
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
I may be fresh out of the Trek Closet, but a True Fan Appreciates Everything. And this game is IP Licensed and if they choose to do new stuff, a true fan will appreciate it even if the design doesn't strike their fancy. You don't have to like it, but saying people aren't "True Fans" because they don't share your viewpoint is wrong.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
T5U and T6 are fluff purchases. They are specifically designed to target the psychological need in people to want the best even when you do not need to be the best to achieve your goals. You can Upgrade your existing T5 Galaxy, or whatever, and feel perfectly content in this game that nothing has really changed for you; as long as you can overcome your psychological need to think you need to be the best.
I had to laugh at this. People who play MMOs largely are the type of people who want the best stuff. To dismiss players wanting the best stuff as having some sort of inappropriate psychological need is to show a marked ignorance of the actual people playing the game. Just try to convince people in any game that second place is just as good. Trying it in an MMO is ridiculous on its face. MMO players will grind for hours to get 1% more powerful. Heck, they'll grind for months for it. Try to change that and you will not succeed. Maybe you're one of those who want to play with free ships and white gear to make the game more challenging. You would be a tiny minority in that case.
You are correct of course that current content is doable with what we have; duh, it's what we have and we do play the game. But new content is coming, and all we have is their word that a t5-U ship will be plenty good enough for the hardest content of it. It's easily within their power to create content that demands you buy a T6 ship; I'll practically guarantee they will do that at some point. PWE does this in all their games; power creep for cash leads to a non-level playing field for pvp, and why not create the same thing in PVE? Of course, what we were really talking about was the canon ships. If you want the best ship, just buy the latest one since in general they keep getting more powerful to convince you to quit using that ship you already paid for to get a better one. But does it have to look like a shark to do that?
I used to be Shakkar with thousands of posts. My very identity was stolen from me so now I am originalshakkar, the original.
It's a little long conversation but the whole geek fan part isn't about being intelligent.
Rather being emo obessing over pointless stuff while having a heart attack in the neck beard chair.
Geek doesn't refer to being good on computers on an ace at math, being smart, rather it's someone being socially awkward or pre-occupied with stupid stuff.
And that's where fan(natic) cross over and you come full circle. Pre-occupied with dumb stuff
I had to laugh at this. People who play MMOs largely are the type of people who want the best stuff. To dismiss players wanting the best stuff as having some sort of inappropriate psychological need is to show a marked ignorance of the actual people playing the game.
OMG! Do you actually believe that when you go into a Grocery Store to buy food that the colors on the walls of that chain store were chosen by random? There are entire classes devoted to teaching marketing to psychological triggers in humans to make more money. This is not about thinking people have "inappropriate psychological needs." This is about understanding that humans have psychological triggers that corporations all around the world are trained to exploit.
The rest of your post is just you babbling on about what you think MMO players motivations are and about your fear-mongering as to what is going to happen X years into the future. It is a game. Enjoy playing it today and stop worrying about what you think is going to happen years down the road. If all the soothsayers had been accurate then STO died 4 years ago. Yet here it is.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
OMG! Do you actually believe that when you go into a Grocery Store to buy food that the colors on the walls of that chain store were chosen by random? There are entire classes devoted to teaching marketing to psychological triggers in humans to make more money. This is not about thinking people have "inappropriate psychological needs." This is about understanding that humans have psychological triggers that corporations all around the world are trained to exploit.
The rest of your post is just you babbling on about what you think MMO players motivations are and about your fear-mongering as to what is going to happen X years into the future. It is a game. Enjoy playing it today and stop worrying about what you think is going to happen years down the road. If all the soothsayers had been accurate then STO died 4 years ago. Yet here it is.
I denoted no fear-mongering in my post. Your mention about corporate manipulation is pretty much beside the point. It's not like I changed my toothpaste from Crest to Colgate, when either one is qualitatively equal. In games you have hard numbers to choose which ship is better.
I find that one man's reasoned argument is another man's babble, whine, crying, qq'ing, or any other derogatory term that can be easily used to insult another.
You may not know me. I had thousands of posts on this forum and was in the beta, and had a lifetime sub from before launch. Few of those posts would have been called doom posts even by those who disagreed with me. I have 36 max ranked characters and have flown 95% of all the ships in the game, often with a character of each class. I'll be fine. I'll upgrade some ships, especially my lockbox ships, and will buy some of the tier 6 too. I just want them to look like canon star trek ships. That seems a pretty mild fear-monger.
But lets leave it here. I don't want to argue any more and don't want to have to respond to you again, though I will.
I used to be Shakkar with thousands of posts. My very identity was stolen from me so now I am originalshakkar, the original.
It's easily within their power to create content that demands you buy a T6 ship; I'll practically guarantee they will do that at some point.
You are clearly stating that Cryptic will force you to buy T6 in the future. IE, you are setting up fear about a possible future you have soothsayed will happen.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I think the better question is: Who are you to decide what is and is not "star trek"?
That has been bounced about the thread and still no one has yet to answer. Do you work for CBS? Are you one of the ship designers from the original series? Are you the reincarnation of Mr. Roddenberry, come back from the dead to claim his franchise?
Since there is a good chance you answered no to those questions, it's pretty safe to assume your credentials as a ship builder are as legit as my credentials as a brain surgeon. Just because I play Surgeon Simulator doesn't make me the authority on the subject. Just because you play STO does not make you an authority on the universe.
So, since neither one of us has any power, how about we just play the game and keep our visions of Star Trek on Fanfiction.net, where they belong?
Who I am is a consumer of this game and a fan of the franchise. If I feel the ships don't capture the theme of Star Trek enough and look like they came from any other generic looking sci fi game, I will feel it and I will express it. And this is a forum where I can also express those opinions and I will.
I'm not unrealistic.
I accept certain things need to be played with to work in STO. But the IP is a strong one and the only thing really going for this game. It should be harnessed in as many aspects as possible. Visuals being the main one at least. If you didn't see these ships in STO, you would never guess "Star Trek!" which I think is an issue in their design.
Who I am is a consumer of this game and a fan of the franchise. If I feel the ships don't capture the theme of Star Trek enough and look like they came from any other generic looking sci fi game, I will feel it and I will express it. And this is a forum where I can also express those opinions and I will.
I'm not unrealistic.
I accept certain things need to be played with to work in STO. But the IP is a strong one and the only thing really going for this game. It should be harnessed in as many aspects as possible. Visuals being the main one at least. If you didn't see these ships in STO, you would never guess "Star Trek!" which I think is an issue in their design.
That's your opinion, and again, does not actually carry any weight. You are not the creative consult of the IP. You are not one of the conceptual artists of the IP. You are not the creator of the IP. You are the fan. The fan's job in the relationship of fandom is to enjoy the IP. It is not your job to decide what is and is not allowed in it. That is CBS's job. And if they said the ship designs were okay, well tough Tribble ta-tas, looks like Tron lights and hard lines are the new looks of Star Trek. You are free to voice your opinion that you dislike the looks. You are free to say you will not buy the pack and proceed to not buy it. But you have no power to decide what is Star Trek and what is not. This franchise not a kingdom and you are certainly not the Gatekeeper.
If you have a problem with the direction of the franchise and where it's heading, as I stated, take it to Fanfiction. That's where you can pretend you're Gene Roddenberry and say that the Connie is just as powerful as the Oddy and the Iconians don't exist and the evolution of ships stopped at the Defiant to your heart's content. That's where that belongs. But here, on Cryptics forum, under CBS's umbrella, they make the rules. And the new rule is: Star Trek is now neon. That's their word for now.
Again, you hate the designs, tell them. You hate the Intelligence Boff, speak freely. You hate Neelix and the entire Talaxian race, no censorship here.
But if you think you get to decide what is and is not "Star Trek" or dare to decide that people who like the new ships are not "true trek fans" (That last bit is just to cover the other hot topic in this thread, has no personal bearing on you, Carl), you're as entitled and delusional in your position as the Romulan Star Empire.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
well with the exception of the kitbash collection from DS9, any ship that really mattered or looked decent has been done.. with the glaring exception of the K'vort
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,480Community Moderator
edited September 2014
Problem is... the K'vort is just an upcscaled B'rel. Doesn't fit the Battlecruiser template.
I honestly don't see how they CAN integrate the K'vort, as its just a copy/paste scale up job and lock the wings in the up position.
A true fan wouldn't care what happens in a non-canon spinoff game set in the future beyond any time period any canon material is set in.
There is no such thing as a True Fan. Its an idiotic attempt to present ones self as being better then another for the sole purpose of disenfranchising the others arguments. There is no measuring stick for fandom regardless of what anyone believes.
As for the ships. People should be concerned with the ship designs since they reflect the IP. If someones never watched the shows or movies. They might not know who Picard or La Forge is. But if someone showed them the USS Enterprise or Voyager. Chances are theyll tell you 'Oh thats Star Wars errrrr Star Trek.'.
I dont think anyone here is going to say. Dont design new ships. Because everyone knows that over the course of time Starfleet obviously moved on from designs like the Constitution and Constellation Class ships in favor of newer ship designs.
But at the same time. There are ship designs that Cryptic went with that made you stop and think....Where did that come from? And granted not all of them were bad. I mean the Olympic Class (a canon ship) is one you can point at as being a bit out there comparatively to traditional designs. Sure it has Nacelles and a Secondary Hull. But in place of a saucer you have a globe.
And while theres plenty of people out there that enjoy the design. The DSSVs are oddities amongst its peers. With the Secondary Hull and Deflector Dishes being separated from the Primary Hull and the Nacelles attached to the Primary Hull..And while I dont think its too strange of a ship design. It is out of left field when it comes to the traditional choice of Saucer/SecondaryHull/Nacelle designs that are typical of Starfleet and Star Trek.
The problem with the Intel Ships and possibly future Starfleet Starships isnt the shape or configuration. Its the Tron Lines that have people really concerned. Because its the Tron Lines that indicate a shift in design choices. Because if the Developers are willing to take such liberty with something that drastically different from traditional Starship aesthetics. Whos to say what theyll do with the next batch of ships? If someone who has never watched Star Trek or played a Star Trek game was to see one of these Intel Ships...I doubt theyd be able to make the connection with Star Trek. So its very much something people should be concerned with. Not because they are a true or not so true fan. But because this game carries the Star Trek name. And the Developers should have a responsibility to honor whats come before them. Instead of going with flavor of the week ship designs that will segregate this games Endgame Ships from what is notoriously Traditional Starship designs.
There is no such thing as a True Fan. Its an idiotic attempt to present ones self as being better then another for the sole purpose of disenfranchising the others arguments. There is no measuring stick for fandom regardless of what anyone believes.
As for the ships. People should be concerned with the ship designs since they reflect the IP. If someones never watched the shows or movies. They might not know who Picard or La Forge is. But if someone showed them the USS Enterprise or Voyager. Chances are theyll tell you 'Oh thats Star Wars errrrr Star Trek.'.
I dont think anyone here is going to say. Dont design new ships. Because everyone knows that over the course of time Starfleet obviously moved on from designs like the Constitution and Constellation Class ships in favor of newer ship designs.
But at the same time. There are ship designs that Cryptic went with that made you stop and think....Where did that come from? And granted not all of them were bad. I mean the Olympic Class (a canon ship) is one you can point at as being a bit out there comparatively to traditional designs. Sure it has Nacelles and a Secondary Hull. But in place of a saucer you have a globe.
And while theres plenty of people out there that enjoy the design. The DSSVs are oddities amongst its peers. With the Secondary Hull and Deflector Dishes being separated from the Primary Hull and the Nacelles attached to the Primary Hull..And while I dont think its too strange of a ship design. It is out of left field when it comes to the traditional choice of Saucer/SecondaryHull/Nacelle designs that are typical of Starfleet and Star Trek.
The problem with the Intel Ships and possibly future Starfleet Starships isnt the shape or configuration. Its the Tron Lines that have people really concerned. Because its the Tron Lines that indicate a shift in design choices. Because if the Developers are willing to take such liberty with something that drastically different from traditional Starship aesthetics. Whos to say what theyll do with the next batch of ships? If someone who has never watched Star Trek or played a Star Trek game was to see one of these Intel Ships...I doubt theyd be able to make the connection with Star Trek. So its very much something people should be concerned with. Not because they are a true or not so true fan. But because this game carries the Star Trek name. And the Developers should have a responsibility to honor whats come before them. Instead of going with flavor of the week ship designs that will segregate this games Endgame Ships from what is notoriously Traditional Starship designs.
The devs said the intell ship designs are one ofs...like the dyson ships and don't represent a shift in design aesthetics. They said the next batch will not have the torn lines and will be more in line with what we expect from star fleet.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The devs said the intell ship designs are one ofs...like the dyson ships and don't represent a shift in design aesthetics. They said the next batch will not have the torn lines and will be more in line with what we expect from star fleet.
Theyve said a lot of things and theyve gone back on a lot of them. If you want to take them at their word. By all means. But your blissful ignorance isnt enough to shrug off my comments.
Theyve said a lot of things and theyve gone back on a lot of them. If you want to take them at their word. By all means. But your blissful ignorance isnt enough to shrug off my comments.
Sorry but I play this game for entertainment purposes...I don't get worked up over it. Obviously you have anger towards the makers of this game. If you feel they lie all the time and are destroying the IP...then why do you play?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Why are the Intelligence ships designed like that? The intelligence ships were designed after the modern visual language of stealth jet fighters. Intelligence gathering has always been a gray zone in governments. Sometimes their hands get somewhat dirty to acquire it (intelligence) and for that reason Intel ships have that darker tone. Their plating hints of some alien tech exchange. It has always been strange to me that somehow tech doesnt seem to cross over species in ST. Even on Earth what one product brand does influences the others. Im not saying this will be a trend in STO design, but something to think about as an open minded fan.
When it comes to mechanics these ships were designed to have a minimum energy profile. Nacelles are narrow, yet longer proportionally. Bussard collectors are also minimized for the same purpose, stealth. Design wise the blue Tron lines were done to draw the ship against the darkness of space. Stealth jet fighters barely have windows. Theres simply no need for them. The same was decided for Intel ships, which is why we traded them with the tron lines. It was a gameplay related decision. As you can see one thing leads to another. Dark stealthy ships that need player visibility, but couldnt rely on windows for it.
Any chance for those of us that "arent a fan" of the new variants' Aesthetics- to be able to use the tailor and the old variant skins parts?
just asked my "ship guys" and they tell me that yes, classic variant skins are on their way.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Not all that upset about it, really; but it *is* a bit of a cop-out to back away from canon ships. Especially since the primary reason for doing so is rather banal: they don't wanna pay royalties to CBS no more.
It also means they don't have to deal with 'Give us a T5 Connie!' threads any more, either. Which is to say, with their own designs, they get to keep full control (or as good as).
Not all that upset about it, really; but it *is* a bit of a cop-out to back away from canon ships. Especially since the primary reason for doing so is rather banal: they don't wanna pay royalties to CBS no more.
It also means they don't have to deal with 'Give us a T5 Connie!' threads any more, either. Which is to say, with their own designs, they get to keep full control (or as good as).
Um, what? What makes you think they pay royalties to CBS based on how often people buy ships?
Also the T6 Fed cruiser is clearly based on the Galaxy.
Comments
The Content in this entire game is balanced for the lowest common denominator. It is designed to be played by a guy in a T5 ship who does 1,000 DPS. This person puts all their weapons on Autofire and then hits the Spacebar when within 10k of their foe. They then fly in a circle around their target, occasionally moving some Shield energy to their exposed side until the target is destroyed.
You and I could spend $50.00 for the exact same Ship Pack yet when we go to play them you are doing 2,000 DPS while I am doing 10,000 DPS - the entire difference based on how we have geared the ships and our individual knowledge of the game. There is no universal standard for anyone to fall behind on, because even equal value things can be inferior to each other.
T5U and T6 are fluff purchases. They are specifically designed to target the psychological need in people to want the best even when you do not need to be the best to achieve your goals. You can Upgrade your existing T5 Galaxy, or whatever, and feel perfectly content in this game that nothing has really changed for you; as long as you can overcome your psychological need to think you need to be the best.
I am sensing this post will be ignored in favor of people ranting and raving about made up things.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Exposing fakes since 2374
Unfortunately, you're probably right.
thecosmic1 is a forum sage... yet people prefer to wear tinfoil hats and go bananas when things change.
So what? Things change. That's the nature of MMOs. WoW changed several times with their expansions: adding the abilty to fly in Azeroth (Previously only doable in Northrend and Outland), blasting regions of the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor when Deathwing came back, adding Pandaria to the map, adding Northrend to the map back in Wrath of the Lich King... now they're adding an uncorrupted alternate Draenor.
Things change. And with it, comes new things. Maybe they're afraid of change and thus must rip it a new one.
Exposing fakes since 2374
STO does deserve more credit than it gets. Star Wars and WoW get all the attention because they are apparently the poster children for MMOs. STO... should probably get that for the F2P side of MMOs.
What gives me hope is that I have seen quite a few star gazers flying around. I really hope cryptic made money off that work and that it inspires more. Its not about power or being the best, that one is a purchase purely for having fun.
which sounds exactly what they were saying about the EntD when it first appeared.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
It means that's the only option they have, because the only canon ship remaining is the Enterprise J and we're still a couple hundred years away from that.
Also it feels nice to embrace your closet trekkie
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Not to collapse anyone's illusions or anything but calling yourself a star trek fan isn't something to be proud of.
They said the same think about nerd and geek, yet we've become the chic trend that everyone wants to a part of.
The fan flag flies and we salute without shame. Either get on the starship or burned in the plasma venting.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
I had to laugh at this. People who play MMOs largely are the type of people who want the best stuff. To dismiss players wanting the best stuff as having some sort of inappropriate psychological need is to show a marked ignorance of the actual people playing the game. Just try to convince people in any game that second place is just as good. Trying it in an MMO is ridiculous on its face. MMO players will grind for hours to get 1% more powerful. Heck, they'll grind for months for it. Try to change that and you will not succeed. Maybe you're one of those who want to play with free ships and white gear to make the game more challenging. You would be a tiny minority in that case.
You are correct of course that current content is doable with what we have; duh, it's what we have and we do play the game. But new content is coming, and all we have is their word that a t5-U ship will be plenty good enough for the hardest content of it. It's easily within their power to create content that demands you buy a T6 ship; I'll practically guarantee they will do that at some point. PWE does this in all their games; power creep for cash leads to a non-level playing field for pvp, and why not create the same thing in PVE? Of course, what we were really talking about was the canon ships. If you want the best ship, just buy the latest one since in general they keep getting more powerful to convince you to quit using that ship you already paid for to get a better one. But does it have to look like a shark to do that?
They still say that.
It's a little long conversation but the whole geek fan part isn't about being intelligent.
Rather being emo obessing over pointless stuff while having a heart attack in the neck beard chair.
Geek doesn't refer to being good on computers on an ace at math, being smart, rather it's someone being socially awkward or pre-occupied with stupid stuff.
And that's where fan(natic) cross over and you come full circle. Pre-occupied with dumb stuff
The rest of your post is just you babbling on about what you think MMO players motivations are and about your fear-mongering as to what is going to happen X years into the future. It is a game. Enjoy playing it today and stop worrying about what you think is going to happen years down the road. If all the soothsayers had been accurate then STO died 4 years ago. Yet here it is.
I denoted no fear-mongering in my post. Your mention about corporate manipulation is pretty much beside the point. It's not like I changed my toothpaste from Crest to Colgate, when either one is qualitatively equal. In games you have hard numbers to choose which ship is better.
I find that one man's reasoned argument is another man's babble, whine, crying, qq'ing, or any other derogatory term that can be easily used to insult another.
You may not know me. I had thousands of posts on this forum and was in the beta, and had a lifetime sub from before launch. Few of those posts would have been called doom posts even by those who disagreed with me. I have 36 max ranked characters and have flown 95% of all the ships in the game, often with a character of each class. I'll be fine. I'll upgrade some ships, especially my lockbox ships, and will buy some of the tier 6 too. I just want them to look like canon star trek ships. That seems a pretty mild fear-monger.
But lets leave it here. I don't want to argue any more and don't want to have to respond to you again, though I will.
You are clearly stating that Cryptic will force you to buy T6 in the future. IE, you are setting up fear about a possible future you have soothsayed will happen.
Who I am is a consumer of this game and a fan of the franchise. If I feel the ships don't capture the theme of Star Trek enough and look like they came from any other generic looking sci fi game, I will feel it and I will express it. And this is a forum where I can also express those opinions and I will.
I'm not unrealistic.
I accept certain things need to be played with to work in STO. But the IP is a strong one and the only thing really going for this game. It should be harnessed in as many aspects as possible. Visuals being the main one at least. If you didn't see these ships in STO, you would never guess "Star Trek!" which I think is an issue in their design.
That's your opinion, and again, does not actually carry any weight. You are not the creative consult of the IP. You are not one of the conceptual artists of the IP. You are not the creator of the IP. You are the fan. The fan's job in the relationship of fandom is to enjoy the IP. It is not your job to decide what is and is not allowed in it. That is CBS's job. And if they said the ship designs were okay, well tough Tribble ta-tas, looks like Tron lights and hard lines are the new looks of Star Trek. You are free to voice your opinion that you dislike the looks. You are free to say you will not buy the pack and proceed to not buy it. But you have no power to decide what is Star Trek and what is not. This franchise not a kingdom and you are certainly not the Gatekeeper.
If you have a problem with the direction of the franchise and where it's heading, as I stated, take it to Fanfiction. That's where you can pretend you're Gene Roddenberry and say that the Connie is just as powerful as the Oddy and the Iconians don't exist and the evolution of ships stopped at the Defiant to your heart's content. That's where that belongs. But here, on Cryptics forum, under CBS's umbrella, they make the rules. And the new rule is: Star Trek is now neon. That's their word for now.
Again, you hate the designs, tell them. You hate the Intelligence Boff, speak freely. You hate Neelix and the entire Talaxian race, no censorship here.
But if you think you get to decide what is and is not "Star Trek" or dare to decide that people who like the new ships are not "true trek fans" (That last bit is just to cover the other hot topic in this thread, has no personal bearing on you, Carl), you're as entitled and delusional in your position as the Romulan Star Empire.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
It carries enough weight for me. I'll state my opinion, I'll explain it and that's how its gonna be. Just like anyone else is free to do here.
I honestly don't see how they CAN integrate the K'vort, as its just a copy/paste scale up job and lock the wings in the up position.
There is no such thing as a True Fan. Its an idiotic attempt to present ones self as being better then another for the sole purpose of disenfranchising the others arguments. There is no measuring stick for fandom regardless of what anyone believes.
As for the ships. People should be concerned with the ship designs since they reflect the IP. If someones never watched the shows or movies. They might not know who Picard or La Forge is. But if someone showed them the USS Enterprise or Voyager. Chances are theyll tell you 'Oh thats Star Wars errrrr Star Trek.'.
I dont think anyone here is going to say. Dont design new ships. Because everyone knows that over the course of time Starfleet obviously moved on from designs like the Constitution and Constellation Class ships in favor of newer ship designs.
But at the same time. There are ship designs that Cryptic went with that made you stop and think....Where did that come from? And granted not all of them were bad. I mean the Olympic Class (a canon ship) is one you can point at as being a bit out there comparatively to traditional designs. Sure it has Nacelles and a Secondary Hull. But in place of a saucer you have a globe.
And while theres plenty of people out there that enjoy the design. The DSSVs are oddities amongst its peers. With the Secondary Hull and Deflector Dishes being separated from the Primary Hull and the Nacelles attached to the Primary Hull..And while I dont think its too strange of a ship design. It is out of left field when it comes to the traditional choice of Saucer/SecondaryHull/Nacelle designs that are typical of Starfleet and Star Trek.
The problem with the Intel Ships and possibly future Starfleet Starships isnt the shape or configuration. Its the Tron Lines that have people really concerned. Because its the Tron Lines that indicate a shift in design choices. Because if the Developers are willing to take such liberty with something that drastically different from traditional Starship aesthetics. Whos to say what theyll do with the next batch of ships? If someone who has never watched Star Trek or played a Star Trek game was to see one of these Intel Ships...I doubt theyd be able to make the connection with Star Trek. So its very much something people should be concerned with. Not because they are a true or not so true fan. But because this game carries the Star Trek name. And the Developers should have a responsibility to honor whats come before them. Instead of going with flavor of the week ship designs that will segregate this games Endgame Ships from what is notoriously Traditional Starship designs.
The devs said the intell ship designs are one ofs...like the dyson ships and don't represent a shift in design aesthetics. They said the next batch will not have the torn lines and will be more in line with what we expect from star fleet.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Theyve said a lot of things and theyve gone back on a lot of them. If you want to take them at their word. By all means. But your blissful ignorance isnt enough to shrug off my comments.
Sorry but I play this game for entertainment purposes...I don't get worked up over it. Obviously you have anger towards the makers of this game. If you feel they lie all the time and are destroying the IP...then why do you play?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Why are the Intelligence ships designed like that? The intelligence ships were designed after the modern visual language of stealth jet fighters. Intelligence gathering has always been a gray zone in governments. Sometimes their hands get somewhat dirty to acquire it (intelligence) and for that reason Intel ships have that darker tone. Their plating hints of some alien tech exchange. It has always been strange to me that somehow tech doesnt seem to cross over species in ST. Even on Earth what one product brand does influences the others. Im not saying this will be a trend in STO design, but something to think about as an open minded fan.
When it comes to mechanics these ships were designed to have a minimum energy profile. Nacelles are narrow, yet longer proportionally. Bussard collectors are also minimized for the same purpose, stealth. Design wise the blue Tron lines were done to draw the ship against the darkness of space. Stealth jet fighters barely have windows. Theres simply no need for them. The same was decided for Intel ships, which is why we traded them with the tron lines. It was a gameplay related decision. As you can see one thing leads to another. Dark stealthy ships that need player visibility, but couldnt rely on windows for it.
Any chance for those of us that "arent a fan" of the new variants' Aesthetics- to be able to use the tailor and the old variant skins parts?
just asked my "ship guys" and they tell me that yes, classic variant skins are on their way.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
It also means they don't have to deal with 'Give us a T5 Connie!' threads any more, either. Which is to say, with their own designs, they get to keep full control (or as good as).
Also the T6 Fed cruiser is clearly based on the Galaxy.
My character Tsin'xing