Theyve said a lot of things and theyve gone back on a lot of them. If you want to take them at their word. By all means. But your blissful ignorance isnt enough to shrug off my comments.
If you're really that cynical about anything and everything Cryptic says about anything, then why post on the forums at all? Clearly nothing they say is to believed, according to you. If that's the case, why listen to anything they say at all?
Not all that upset about it, really; but it *is* a bit of a cop-out to back away from canon ships. Especially since the primary reason for doing so is rather banal: they don't wanna pay royalties to CBS no more.
It also means they don't have to deal with 'Give us a T5 Connie!' threads any more, either. Which is to say, with their own designs, they get to keep full control (or as good as).
Can you point me to the post or thread where they said they are stepping away from canon ships?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Also they pay CBS royalties simply because the game is about STAR TREK.
It's not just the ships CBS owns. It's the ENTIRE FRANCHISE. Aliens, ships, Federation, lore, the whole shebang.
cbs owns the tv shows and other things, that means almost everything trek related. paramount owns the films as far as rights go. they dont own everything trek related
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
You are clearly stating that Cryptic will force you to buy T6 in the future. IE, you are setting up fear about a possible future you have soothsayed will happen.
Cryptic does force no one to buy anything. If you wanted, you could still fly your Tier 4 ship, for example. PvE content wouldn't really pose a problem.
But for some reason, you find most people play Tier 5 ships, often even ships that required grinding and/or Zen expenditure for them to get.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Cryptic does force no one to buy anything. If you wanted, you could still fly your Tier 4 ship, for example. PvE content wouldn't really pose a problem.
But for some reason, you find most people play Tier 5 ships, often even ships that required grinding and/or Zen expenditure for them to get.
No one is disputing the difference between want and need; but people should recognize there is a difference between those two states of existence. There is nothing wrong with wanting a T5U or a new T6, or a T6 Intel ship. That is not the same thing as telling people they need to buy it or they cannot play the Content in the game. And it is certainly not the same thing as telling people some imaginary bad thing will happen X years down the road that will force you to buy the ships whether you want them or not. That was the issue being addressed here.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
No one is disputing the difference between want and need; but people should recognize there is a difference between those two states of existence. There is nothing wrong with wanting a T5U or a new T6, or a T6 Intel ship. That is not the same thing as telling people they need to buy it or they cannot play the Content in the game. And it is certainly not the same thing as telling people some imaginary bad thing will happen X years down the road that will force you to buy the ships whether you want them or not. That was the issue being addressed here.
But here is a dumb question.
Cryptic created Tier 5 Retrofits of lower tier ships so there is a viable, competitive and not inherently weaker version of these ships available at Tier 5.
Why bother creating an upgrade system that doesn't do the same? What kind of benefit is there for us players? Is it really just so that they can sell ships for the "New Ship Price"?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Cryptic created Tier 5 Retrofits of lower tier ships so there is a viable, competitive and not inherently weaker version of these ships available at Tier 5.
Why bother creating an upgrade system that doesn't do the same? What kind of benefit is there for us players? Is it really just so that they can sell ships for the "New Ship Price"?
I would argue that not all Fleet-quality ships are of the same caliber even though they have the same number of Boff and Console Slots - and there are thousands of Galaxy Class posts that would seem to agree with that sentiment. So a lower Tier ship made into T5.5 does not guarantee you are getting the ship configuration you wanted even though you love the appearance. I do not see how that is any different in T5U or T6. Some people will be disappointed and some will be happy - just as they currently are with Fleet ships.
I would also argue that T5U ships are equivalent to T6 ships, in regard to Content. The difference seems to be far more dependent upon play-style then mechanics. And yes, some ships like the Intel Class will have new mechanics, but that does not automatically make them X times better. It simply makes them different.
So this is really nothing more then a Want/Need issue compounded with the marketing psychology of 6 being higher then 5 so I must get it.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Let's leave it for Al Rivera to settle this debate. Here's what he has to say about this topic. Fast forward to 0:42:00. Keep listening for a minute or 2.
It makes much more sense if you start listening at the 0:41:00 minute mark and listen through 0:47:00.
Anyways, I think players will prove him wrong, being able to bring T5 or even T4 ships into elite difficulty missions at rank 60. Cryptic will never make a game that's difficult to play, even for casual players.
Yeah. As I have have said in other threads, I have already gone in with a T4 ship and done the Content.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
He contradicts himself a lot these days. I know he's a big fan of star trek and this game, but boy a lot of the times he seems to not understand player experience in STO.
I do not hear him contradicting himself in that interview. He simply is just not a power-gamer like many are.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Maybe contradicting was not the right term... But somehow something is lacking with him, and it's not just the power gamer thing. I mean if he didn't have in him to be a power gamer, I'm sure there is a cryptic adviser would have told him what he needed to say/reveal to the public.
I mean they're saying they're raising difficulty in delta rising but you just stated (I assume you're not lying) you're doing the stuff in T4 ships. That tells me what kind of content will be coming in delta rising, pretty much nothing has changed. But he was hyping everybody about difficult and intriguing content...
Without further derailing the thread, why should we even buy these new ships? They seem like an useless addition to the game?
As he states in the interview, they tested the new Content all the way to level 60 in free T5 ships on Normal mode. He then goes on to say that people might need T5U and T6 ships to play the Content on Advanced and Elite mode.
I think because he is not a power-gamer that he does not really understand how powerful some of us are in our current T5.5 Fleet ships full of purple Rep and Fleet gear along with all the special Doffs and whatnot. I had no difficulty doing the new ESTF in my T5.5 ship - it was no more difficult then doing any of the existing ESTFs. I even did it in a T4 ship with assorted gear on Normal mode.
If you are a Casual player you will probably want to stick to Normal mode in the new Content. If you are a better player you will probably want to shoot for Advanced or Elite. But I was still capable of doing it in my current T5 ships. I really did not even notice much difference when I upgraded to my T5U. I was still vapping things.
My recommendation is to try the Content with your existing ship. Even if you just play on Normal mode, which I assume most do in the game, you are not going to need an Upgrade. I have done it T5.5, T5, and T4. But if you really like your ship, like I love my Fleet Sovereign, then buying an Upgrade Token is not a big deal, IMO.
As for why you might buy a T6, maybe because you like the look of it, or you want to try some of the new options with the new Boffs, etc. That is why I will buy any of them: curiosity, not need.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I think, more people than they think, are going to keep their official ships.
But that's also where they tried to safeguard all angles, even those people rejecting t6 still have to pay 10-15$ for their old ship, it's hilarious.
What, only 15$ for some hull hp?!?!1111
Okay so in the first expansion I got 8(?) free ships - this time I have to pay 15$ per old ship we already bought...
I am no math genius but that seems significantly disproportionate, wouldn't you say?!
What? Yeah LoR had free new races, free costumes and free ship abilties too, good point.
If nothing else on general principle alone people should refuse both upgrades and t6 ships but especially the upgrades them having no animations just budget copy-paste work passive stats.
But that's also where they tried to safeguard all angles, even those people rejecting t6 still have to pay 10-15$ for their old ship, it's hilarious.
The Token will cost between $5.00 and $10.00, not between $10.00 to $15.00; and it will be like a Fleet Modules and can be put on the Exchange to be bought for EC.
And it is not just some Hull. Did you read the Blog at all?
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I get the point. I just prefer it to be posted with actual information rather then made-up TRIBBLE to make it seem worse then it is.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
You got 8 free ships in LoR, free costumes, free ship abilities
Now you get nothing but permission to spend money on old ships
If it's 2, 5, 10, 200$ doesn't nothing to change the actuality of the point.
8 free ships etc etc etc vs paying for pointless, no animation passives for each ship individually
Don't you agree?
No.
I only got that free stuff in LoR if I wanted to play a Romulan - which I did not want to do. I ran a Romulan to level 50 just for the experience of doing it, but I had no interest in doing it, or doing it a second time.
Delta Rising is giving me new Content for my existing characters; the once I want to play. It is not forcing me to play a Faction I do not want to play. Likewise it is not forcing me to buy anything, as you can play this new Content with existing ships. That is the only real point that you seem to want to avoid.
If you want to spend money to Upgrade your ship, you can; just as you could have spent money on a T5.5 Fleet ship when they came out 2 years ago, even though you were not forced to get a Fleet ship. That has no bearing on the Content, though. No one is forcing you to Upgrade, thus no one is forcing you to spend money.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
So you don't agree there were 8 free ships, free costumes and free ship abilities in LoR?
That never happened
Or you you disagree, in expansion 2 you now get nothing for free, rather you all of sudden paying money for pointless, passive stats with no animations, simplest budget, discount coding there is?
Per individual ship
I am pretty sure both are recorded facts but go ahead and see if you can developer apologist your way out it, I am still midly entertained by it
/ps.
Several of the points are quite interesting to me and one of them is the zero animations put into expansion 2.
I can't stress enough how easy it is to go into notepad and swap the shield hp around versus having to actually put in work and create new skins or animations.
So you don't agree there were 8 free ships, free costumes and free ship abilities in LoR?
Is it a reading issue with you? is that it?
My Fed and KDF characters did not get 8 free ships. Did your Fed and KDF characters get 8 free ships when LoR came out? If they did then Cryptic owes me a bunch of ships.
You cannot compare a Faction Expansion to a Level Cap Increase Expansion. The Faction Expansion only benefited the people who wanted to play Romulans. A Level Cap Increase benefits all 3 Factions with new playable Content.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
LoR gave you free ships only if you wanted to play a Romulan. If you wanted to play your Federation character then you got no free ships. Do you understand that?
Not everyone in this game plays a Romulan. Do you understand that?
But everyone in this game will get new Content to take them to level 60 for free. Do you understand that?
A Faction Expansion is not the same thing as a Level Cap Increase Expansion. In a Faction Expansion only a small percentage of the players benefit from new Content. In a Level Cap Increase Expansion all 3 Factions of players benefit from new Content.
This is not rocket science here.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Call it 500 x 2, 1000 x 2, 1500 x 2, 2000 x 2 = ~ 9000 zen for free in ships alone in LoR
in delta rising
you PAY 10$, per ship, for "nothing" as passive stats requires ZERO effort, so
Call it average 5 ships for an average player in sto? that's 50$ per player :
LoR + 9000 zen
Dr - 50,000 zen (has to PAY 10$ x 5)
So, -41,000 zen disproportionate to LoR in terms of adding to the game
... in ships alone.
Or 1:5 of the content LoR had, roughly.
Then as I said you have to take a look at the amount of new animations vs blank stats and add in the costumes and so on aswell to get the full scope of the situation.
Arguably the passive stats on t5u don't count for anything as they have not added anything but numbers in notepad - it's not a physical animation, a feature or gameplay - it doesn't exist and so has to count as nothing or zero.
/edit.
ps. that's assuming the user doesn't also buy one or several t6 ships where of course the numbers would be worse
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
if bonuses like extra hull, consoles, and shields didn't matter then people wouldn't buy fleet ships to get those bonuses. not to mention spending all that time leveling their fleets so they could buy the ships. clearly they matter to players. the t5us are just a new type of fleet ship, only they're cheaper then fleet ships and you don't need to level up a whole fleet to get it. it doesn't matter if they came with delta rising or not.
I feel fleet grinding is a chapter on its own with the headline "nothing else to do right now"
One point about fleet ships is getting an entire ship with skin and animations leading back to what I talked about with budget coding before.
All t5u upgrades are strictly budget coding with zero animations and zero skins.
It doesn't get more straight up discount than that.
I will agree fleet gear at least partially falls under that category but is a different comparison than I am making and has lots of things that can be said about it.
I like that the new rep ground weapons includes the Compression Phaser Rifle from Voyager. Finally we can have a 'canon' away team for Starfleet that isn't either using TOS-era weapons or Standard-Issue phasers.
Comments
If you're really that cynical about anything and everything Cryptic says about anything, then why post on the forums at all? Clearly nothing they say is to believed, according to you. If that's the case, why listen to anything they say at all?
Can you point me to the post or thread where they said they are stepping away from canon ships?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Also they pay CBS royalties simply because the game is about STAR TREK.
It's not just the ships CBS owns. It's the ENTIRE FRANCHISE. Aliens, ships, Federation, lore, the whole shebang.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
cbs owns the tv shows and other things, that means almost everything trek related. paramount owns the films as far as rights go. they dont own everything trek related
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Cryptic does force no one to buy anything. If you wanted, you could still fly your Tier 4 ship, for example. PvE content wouldn't really pose a problem.
But for some reason, you find most people play Tier 5 ships, often even ships that required grinding and/or Zen expenditure for them to get.
But you can probably do the count yourself, don't need a developer to do the math for you.
However there probably are some canon, none faction future lockbox ships in the expansion flown by npcs.
Personally I don't like it when they go "creative" and decide the romulans are now farmers and all that.
I'd trust the IP over their decisions 100 times out of 100
But here is a dumb question.
Cryptic created Tier 5 Retrofits of lower tier ships so there is a viable, competitive and not inherently weaker version of these ships available at Tier 5.
Why bother creating an upgrade system that doesn't do the same? What kind of benefit is there for us players? Is it really just so that they can sell ships for the "New Ship Price"?
I would also argue that T5U ships are equivalent to T6 ships, in regard to Content. The difference seems to be far more dependent upon play-style then mechanics. And yes, some ships like the Intel Class will have new mechanics, but that does not automatically make them X times better. It simply makes them different.
So this is really nothing more then a Want/Need issue compounded with the marketing psychology of 6 being higher then 5 so I must get it.
Yeah. As I have have said in other threads, I have already gone in with a T4 ship and done the Content.
I think because he is not a power-gamer that he does not really understand how powerful some of us are in our current T5.5 Fleet ships full of purple Rep and Fleet gear along with all the special Doffs and whatnot. I had no difficulty doing the new ESTF in my T5.5 ship - it was no more difficult then doing any of the existing ESTFs. I even did it in a T4 ship with assorted gear on Normal mode.
If you are a Casual player you will probably want to stick to Normal mode in the new Content. If you are a better player you will probably want to shoot for Advanced or Elite. But I was still capable of doing it in my current T5 ships. I really did not even notice much difference when I upgraded to my T5U. I was still vapping things.
My recommendation is to try the Content with your existing ship. Even if you just play on Normal mode, which I assume most do in the game, you are not going to need an Upgrade. I have done it T5.5, T5, and T4. But if you really like your ship, like I love my Fleet Sovereign, then buying an Upgrade Token is not a big deal, IMO.
As for why you might buy a T6, maybe because you like the look of it, or you want to try some of the new options with the new Boffs, etc. That is why I will buy any of them: curiosity, not need.
But that's also where they tried to safeguard all angles, even those people rejecting t6 still have to pay 10-15$ for their old ship, it's hilarious.
What, only 15$ for some hull hp?!?!1111
Okay so in the first expansion I got 8(?) free ships - this time I have to pay 15$ per old ship we already bought...
I am no math genius but that seems significantly disproportionate, wouldn't you say?!
What? Yeah LoR had free new races, free costumes and free ship abilties too, good point.
If nothing else on general principle alone people should refuse both upgrades and t6 ships but especially the upgrades them having no animations just budget copy-paste work passive stats.
And it is not just some Hull. Did you read the Blog at all?
vs
8 ships, costumes, ship abilties for FREE, in LoR
You do get the point right.
That you are paying 10$ x 1,2, 3... for NOTHING but empty stats with NO animations, meaning budget coding that zero work went into
You did understand the actual point, right
Now you get nothing but permission to spend money on old ships
If it's 2, 5, 10, 200$ doesn't nothing to change the actuality of the point.
8 free ships etc etc etc vs paying for pointless, no animation passives for each ship individually
Don't you agree?
I only got that free stuff in LoR if I wanted to play a Romulan - which I did not want to do. I ran a Romulan to level 50 just for the experience of doing it, but I had no interest in doing it, or doing it a second time.
Delta Rising is giving me new Content for my existing characters; the once I want to play. It is not forcing me to play a Faction I do not want to play. Likewise it is not forcing me to buy anything, as you can play this new Content with existing ships. That is the only real point that you seem to want to avoid.
If you want to spend money to Upgrade your ship, you can; just as you could have spent money on a T5.5 Fleet ship when they came out 2 years ago, even though you were not forced to get a Fleet ship. That has no bearing on the Content, though. No one is forcing you to Upgrade, thus no one is forcing you to spend money.
So you don't agree there were 8 free ships, free costumes and free ship abilities in LoR?
That never happened
Or you you disagree, in expansion 2 you now get nothing for free, rather you all of sudden paying money for pointless, passive stats with no animations, simplest budget, discount coding there is?
Per individual ship
I am pretty sure both are recorded facts but go ahead and see if you can developer apologist your way out it, I am still midly entertained by it
/ps.
Several of the points are quite interesting to me and one of them is the zero animations put into expansion 2.
I can't stress enough how easy it is to go into notepad and swap the shield hp around versus having to actually put in work and create new skins or animations.
My Fed and KDF characters did not get 8 free ships. Did your Fed and KDF characters get 8 free ships when LoR came out? If they did then Cryptic owes me a bunch of ships.
You cannot compare a Faction Expansion to a Level Cap Increase Expansion. The Faction Expansion only benefited the people who wanted to play Romulans. A Level Cap Increase benefits all 3 Factions with new playable Content.
All of it - 100% free.
Now, you are paying 10$, per ship, for non-animation passives and get nothing for free.
With special emphasis on animations vs blank stats - as swapping numbers around vs having to create skins or animations are like night and day.
LoR had animations
DR has no animations
LoR gave you free ships
Dr charges you for "symbolic, passive" stats (with no animations)
Not everyone in this game plays a Romulan. Do you understand that?
But everyone in this game will get new Content to take them to level 60 for free. Do you understand that?
A Faction Expansion is not the same thing as a Level Cap Increase Expansion. In a Faction Expansion only a small percentage of the players benefit from new Content. In a Level Cap Increase Expansion all 3 Factions of players benefit from new Content.
This is not rocket science here.
Call it 500 x 2, 1000 x 2, 1500 x 2, 2000 x 2 = ~ 9000 zen for free in ships alone in LoR
in delta rising
you PAY 10$, per ship, for "nothing" as passive stats requires ZERO effort, so
Call it average 5 ships for an average player in sto? that's 50$ per player :
LoR + 9000 zen
Dr - 50,000 zen (has to PAY 10$ x 5)
So, -41,000 zen disproportionate to LoR in terms of adding to the game
... in ships alone.
Or 1:5 of the content LoR had, roughly.
Then as I said you have to take a look at the amount of new animations vs blank stats and add in the costumes and so on aswell to get the full scope of the situation.
Arguably the passive stats on t5u don't count for anything as they have not added anything but numbers in notepad - it's not a physical animation, a feature or gameplay - it doesn't exist and so has to count as nothing or zero.
/edit.
ps. that's assuming the user doesn't also buy one or several t6 ships where of course the numbers would be worse
Apparently it is.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Lor + 9000 zen
Dr - 5000 zen
So that's -14,000 zen in proportion, on ships alone
Am I wrong though.
You got whole ships for free in LoR. Now you paying out the butt for passive stats?
Isn't it pitiful, budget coding all across the board?
Is like you got ship passives in the rep systems for free for 2 years - okay so 10$ for ship passives, eh?
I might be totally overlooking the sublime point that completely changes how we look at everything but so far everything is lemon face
I feel fleet grinding is a chapter on its own with the headline "nothing else to do right now"
One point about fleet ships is getting an entire ship with skin and animations leading back to what I talked about with budget coding before.
All t5u upgrades are strictly budget coding with zero animations and zero skins.
It doesn't get more straight up discount than that.
I will agree fleet gear at least partially falls under that category but is a different comparison than I am making and has lots of things that can be said about it.