I may be fresh out of the Trek Closet, but a True Fan Appreciates Everything. And this game is IP Licensed and if they choose to do new stuff, a true fan will appreciate it even if the design doesn't strike their fancy. You don't have to like it, but saying people aren't "True Fans" because they don't share your viewpoint is wrong.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
T5U and T6 are fluff purchases. They are specifically designed to target the psychological need in people to want the best even when you do not need to be the best to achieve your goals. You can Upgrade your existing T5 Galaxy, or whatever, and feel perfectly content in this game that nothing has really changed for you; as long as you can overcome your psychological need to think you need to be the best.
I had to laugh at this. People who play MMOs largely are the type of people who want the best stuff. To dismiss players wanting the best stuff as having some sort of inappropriate psychological need is to show a marked ignorance of the actual people playing the game. Just try to convince people in any game that second place is just as good. Trying it in an MMO is ridiculous on its face. MMO players will grind for hours to get 1% more powerful. Heck, they'll grind for months for it. Try to change that and you will not succeed. Maybe you're one of those who want to play with free ships and white gear to make the game more challenging. You would be a tiny minority in that case.
You are correct of course that current content is doable with what we have; duh, it's what we have and we do play the game. But new content is coming, and all we have is their word that a t5-U ship will be plenty good enough for the hardest content of it. It's easily within their power to create content that demands you buy a T6 ship; I'll practically guarantee they will do that at some point. PWE does this in all their games; power creep for cash leads to a non-level playing field for pvp, and why not create the same thing in PVE? Of course, what we were really talking about was the canon ships. If you want the best ship, just buy the latest one since in general they keep getting more powerful to convince you to quit using that ship you already paid for to get a better one. But does it have to look like a shark to do that?
I used to be Shakkar with thousands of posts. My very identity was stolen from me so now I am originalshakkar, the original.
It's a little long conversation but the whole geek fan part isn't about being intelligent.
Rather being emo obessing over pointless stuff while having a heart attack in the neck beard chair.
Geek doesn't refer to being good on computers on an ace at math, being smart, rather it's someone being socially awkward or pre-occupied with stupid stuff.
And that's where fan(natic) cross over and you come full circle. Pre-occupied with dumb stuff
I had to laugh at this. People who play MMOs largely are the type of people who want the best stuff. To dismiss players wanting the best stuff as having some sort of inappropriate psychological need is to show a marked ignorance of the actual people playing the game.
OMG! Do you actually believe that when you go into a Grocery Store to buy food that the colors on the walls of that chain store were chosen by random? There are entire classes devoted to teaching marketing to psychological triggers in humans to make more money. This is not about thinking people have "inappropriate psychological needs." This is about understanding that humans have psychological triggers that corporations all around the world are trained to exploit.
The rest of your post is just you babbling on about what you think MMO players motivations are and about your fear-mongering as to what is going to happen X years into the future. It is a game. Enjoy playing it today and stop worrying about what you think is going to happen years down the road. If all the soothsayers had been accurate then STO died 4 years ago. Yet here it is.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
OMG! Do you actually believe that when you go into a Grocery Store to buy food that the colors on the walls of that chain store were chosen by random? There are entire classes devoted to teaching marketing to psychological triggers in humans to make more money. This is not about thinking people have "inappropriate psychological needs." This is about understanding that humans have psychological triggers that corporations all around the world are trained to exploit.
The rest of your post is just you babbling on about what you think MMO players motivations are and about your fear-mongering as to what is going to happen X years into the future. It is a game. Enjoy playing it today and stop worrying about what you think is going to happen years down the road. If all the soothsayers had been accurate then STO died 4 years ago. Yet here it is.
I denoted no fear-mongering in my post. Your mention about corporate manipulation is pretty much beside the point. It's not like I changed my toothpaste from Crest to Colgate, when either one is qualitatively equal. In games you have hard numbers to choose which ship is better.
I find that one man's reasoned argument is another man's babble, whine, crying, qq'ing, or any other derogatory term that can be easily used to insult another.
You may not know me. I had thousands of posts on this forum and was in the beta, and had a lifetime sub from before launch. Few of those posts would have been called doom posts even by those who disagreed with me. I have 36 max ranked characters and have flown 95% of all the ships in the game, often with a character of each class. I'll be fine. I'll upgrade some ships, especially my lockbox ships, and will buy some of the tier 6 too. I just want them to look like canon star trek ships. That seems a pretty mild fear-monger.
But lets leave it here. I don't want to argue any more and don't want to have to respond to you again, though I will.
I used to be Shakkar with thousands of posts. My very identity was stolen from me so now I am originalshakkar, the original.
It's easily within their power to create content that demands you buy a T6 ship; I'll practically guarantee they will do that at some point.
You are clearly stating that Cryptic will force you to buy T6 in the future. IE, you are setting up fear about a possible future you have soothsayed will happen.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I think the better question is: Who are you to decide what is and is not "star trek"?
That has been bounced about the thread and still no one has yet to answer. Do you work for CBS? Are you one of the ship designers from the original series? Are you the reincarnation of Mr. Roddenberry, come back from the dead to claim his franchise?
Since there is a good chance you answered no to those questions, it's pretty safe to assume your credentials as a ship builder are as legit as my credentials as a brain surgeon. Just because I play Surgeon Simulator doesn't make me the authority on the subject. Just because you play STO does not make you an authority on the universe.
So, since neither one of us has any power, how about we just play the game and keep our visions of Star Trek on Fanfiction.net, where they belong?
Who I am is a consumer of this game and a fan of the franchise. If I feel the ships don't capture the theme of Star Trek enough and look like they came from any other generic looking sci fi game, I will feel it and I will express it. And this is a forum where I can also express those opinions and I will.
I'm not unrealistic.
I accept certain things need to be played with to work in STO. But the IP is a strong one and the only thing really going for this game. It should be harnessed in as many aspects as possible. Visuals being the main one at least. If you didn't see these ships in STO, you would never guess "Star Trek!" which I think is an issue in their design.
Who I am is a consumer of this game and a fan of the franchise. If I feel the ships don't capture the theme of Star Trek enough and look like they came from any other generic looking sci fi game, I will feel it and I will express it. And this is a forum where I can also express those opinions and I will.
I'm not unrealistic.
I accept certain things need to be played with to work in STO. But the IP is a strong one and the only thing really going for this game. It should be harnessed in as many aspects as possible. Visuals being the main one at least. If you didn't see these ships in STO, you would never guess "Star Trek!" which I think is an issue in their design.
That's your opinion, and again, does not actually carry any weight. You are not the creative consult of the IP. You are not one of the conceptual artists of the IP. You are not the creator of the IP. You are the fan. The fan's job in the relationship of fandom is to enjoy the IP. It is not your job to decide what is and is not allowed in it. That is CBS's job. And if they said the ship designs were okay, well tough Tribble ta-tas, looks like Tron lights and hard lines are the new looks of Star Trek. You are free to voice your opinion that you dislike the looks. You are free to say you will not buy the pack and proceed to not buy it. But you have no power to decide what is Star Trek and what is not. This franchise not a kingdom and you are certainly not the Gatekeeper.
If you have a problem with the direction of the franchise and where it's heading, as I stated, take it to Fanfiction. That's where you can pretend you're Gene Roddenberry and say that the Connie is just as powerful as the Oddy and the Iconians don't exist and the evolution of ships stopped at the Defiant to your heart's content. That's where that belongs. But here, on Cryptics forum, under CBS's umbrella, they make the rules. And the new rule is: Star Trek is now neon. That's their word for now.
Again, you hate the designs, tell them. You hate the Intelligence Boff, speak freely. You hate Neelix and the entire Talaxian race, no censorship here.
But if you think you get to decide what is and is not "Star Trek" or dare to decide that people who like the new ships are not "true trek fans" (That last bit is just to cover the other hot topic in this thread, has no personal bearing on you, Carl), you're as entitled and delusional in your position as the Romulan Star Empire.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
well with the exception of the kitbash collection from DS9, any ship that really mattered or looked decent has been done.. with the glaring exception of the K'vort
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,696Community Moderator
edited September 2014
Problem is... the K'vort is just an upcscaled B'rel. Doesn't fit the Battlecruiser template.
I honestly don't see how they CAN integrate the K'vort, as its just a copy/paste scale up job and lock the wings in the up position.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
A true fan wouldn't care what happens in a non-canon spinoff game set in the future beyond any time period any canon material is set in.
There is no such thing as a True Fan. Its an idiotic attempt to present ones self as being better then another for the sole purpose of disenfranchising the others arguments. There is no measuring stick for fandom regardless of what anyone believes.
As for the ships. People should be concerned with the ship designs since they reflect the IP. If someones never watched the shows or movies. They might not know who Picard or La Forge is. But if someone showed them the USS Enterprise or Voyager. Chances are theyll tell you 'Oh thats Star Wars errrrr Star Trek.'.
I dont think anyone here is going to say. Dont design new ships. Because everyone knows that over the course of time Starfleet obviously moved on from designs like the Constitution and Constellation Class ships in favor of newer ship designs.
But at the same time. There are ship designs that Cryptic went with that made you stop and think....Where did that come from? And granted not all of them were bad. I mean the Olympic Class (a canon ship) is one you can point at as being a bit out there comparatively to traditional designs. Sure it has Nacelles and a Secondary Hull. But in place of a saucer you have a globe.
And while theres plenty of people out there that enjoy the design. The DSSVs are oddities amongst its peers. With the Secondary Hull and Deflector Dishes being separated from the Primary Hull and the Nacelles attached to the Primary Hull..And while I dont think its too strange of a ship design. It is out of left field when it comes to the traditional choice of Saucer/SecondaryHull/Nacelle designs that are typical of Starfleet and Star Trek.
The problem with the Intel Ships and possibly future Starfleet Starships isnt the shape or configuration. Its the Tron Lines that have people really concerned. Because its the Tron Lines that indicate a shift in design choices. Because if the Developers are willing to take such liberty with something that drastically different from traditional Starship aesthetics. Whos to say what theyll do with the next batch of ships? If someone who has never watched Star Trek or played a Star Trek game was to see one of these Intel Ships...I doubt theyd be able to make the connection with Star Trek. So its very much something people should be concerned with. Not because they are a true or not so true fan. But because this game carries the Star Trek name. And the Developers should have a responsibility to honor whats come before them. Instead of going with flavor of the week ship designs that will segregate this games Endgame Ships from what is notoriously Traditional Starship designs.
There is no such thing as a True Fan. Its an idiotic attempt to present ones self as being better then another for the sole purpose of disenfranchising the others arguments. There is no measuring stick for fandom regardless of what anyone believes.
As for the ships. People should be concerned with the ship designs since they reflect the IP. If someones never watched the shows or movies. They might not know who Picard or La Forge is. But if someone showed them the USS Enterprise or Voyager. Chances are theyll tell you 'Oh thats Star Wars errrrr Star Trek.'.
I dont think anyone here is going to say. Dont design new ships. Because everyone knows that over the course of time Starfleet obviously moved on from designs like the Constitution and Constellation Class ships in favor of newer ship designs.
But at the same time. There are ship designs that Cryptic went with that made you stop and think....Where did that come from? And granted not all of them were bad. I mean the Olympic Class (a canon ship) is one you can point at as being a bit out there comparatively to traditional designs. Sure it has Nacelles and a Secondary Hull. But in place of a saucer you have a globe.
And while theres plenty of people out there that enjoy the design. The DSSVs are oddities amongst its peers. With the Secondary Hull and Deflector Dishes being separated from the Primary Hull and the Nacelles attached to the Primary Hull..And while I dont think its too strange of a ship design. It is out of left field when it comes to the traditional choice of Saucer/SecondaryHull/Nacelle designs that are typical of Starfleet and Star Trek.
The problem with the Intel Ships and possibly future Starfleet Starships isnt the shape or configuration. Its the Tron Lines that have people really concerned. Because its the Tron Lines that indicate a shift in design choices. Because if the Developers are willing to take such liberty with something that drastically different from traditional Starship aesthetics. Whos to say what theyll do with the next batch of ships? If someone who has never watched Star Trek or played a Star Trek game was to see one of these Intel Ships...I doubt theyd be able to make the connection with Star Trek. So its very much something people should be concerned with. Not because they are a true or not so true fan. But because this game carries the Star Trek name. And the Developers should have a responsibility to honor whats come before them. Instead of going with flavor of the week ship designs that will segregate this games Endgame Ships from what is notoriously Traditional Starship designs.
The devs said the intell ship designs are one ofs...like the dyson ships and don't represent a shift in design aesthetics. They said the next batch will not have the torn lines and will be more in line with what we expect from star fleet.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The devs said the intell ship designs are one ofs...like the dyson ships and don't represent a shift in design aesthetics. They said the next batch will not have the torn lines and will be more in line with what we expect from star fleet.
Theyve said a lot of things and theyve gone back on a lot of them. If you want to take them at their word. By all means. But your blissful ignorance isnt enough to shrug off my comments.
Theyve said a lot of things and theyve gone back on a lot of them. If you want to take them at their word. By all means. But your blissful ignorance isnt enough to shrug off my comments.
Sorry but I play this game for entertainment purposes...I don't get worked up over it. Obviously you have anger towards the makers of this game. If you feel they lie all the time and are destroying the IP...then why do you play?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Why are the Intelligence ships designed like that? The intelligence ships were designed after the modern visual language of stealth jet fighters. Intelligence gathering has always been a gray zone in governments. Sometimes their hands get somewhat dirty to acquire it (intelligence) and for that reason Intel ships have that darker tone. Their plating hints of some alien tech exchange. It has always been strange to me that somehow tech doesnt seem to cross over species in ST. Even on Earth what one product brand does influences the others. Im not saying this will be a trend in STO design, but something to think about as an open minded fan.
When it comes to mechanics these ships were designed to have a minimum energy profile. Nacelles are narrow, yet longer proportionally. Bussard collectors are also minimized for the same purpose, stealth. Design wise the blue Tron lines were done to draw the ship against the darkness of space. Stealth jet fighters barely have windows. Theres simply no need for them. The same was decided for Intel ships, which is why we traded them with the tron lines. It was a gameplay related decision. As you can see one thing leads to another. Dark stealthy ships that need player visibility, but couldnt rely on windows for it.
Any chance for those of us that "arent a fan" of the new variants' Aesthetics- to be able to use the tailor and the old variant skins parts?
just asked my "ship guys" and they tell me that yes, classic variant skins are on their way.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Not all that upset about it, really; but it *is* a bit of a cop-out to back away from canon ships. Especially since the primary reason for doing so is rather banal: they don't wanna pay royalties to CBS no more.
It also means they don't have to deal with 'Give us a T5 Connie!' threads any more, either. Which is to say, with their own designs, they get to keep full control (or as good as).
Not all that upset about it, really; but it *is* a bit of a cop-out to back away from canon ships. Especially since the primary reason for doing so is rather banal: they don't wanna pay royalties to CBS no more.
It also means they don't have to deal with 'Give us a T5 Connie!' threads any more, either. Which is to say, with their own designs, they get to keep full control (or as good as).
Um, what? What makes you think they pay royalties to CBS based on how often people buy ships?
Also the T6 Fed cruiser is clearly based on the Galaxy.
Theyve said a lot of things and theyve gone back on a lot of them. If you want to take them at their word. By all means. But your blissful ignorance isnt enough to shrug off my comments.
If you're really that cynical about anything and everything Cryptic says about anything, then why post on the forums at all? Clearly nothing they say is to believed, according to you. If that's the case, why listen to anything they say at all?
Not all that upset about it, really; but it *is* a bit of a cop-out to back away from canon ships. Especially since the primary reason for doing so is rather banal: they don't wanna pay royalties to CBS no more.
It also means they don't have to deal with 'Give us a T5 Connie!' threads any more, either. Which is to say, with their own designs, they get to keep full control (or as good as).
Can you point me to the post or thread where they said they are stepping away from canon ships?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Also they pay CBS royalties simply because the game is about STAR TREK.
It's not just the ships CBS owns. It's the ENTIRE FRANCHISE. Aliens, ships, Federation, lore, the whole shebang.
cbs owns the tv shows and other things, that means almost everything trek related. paramount owns the films as far as rights go. they dont own everything trek related
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
You are clearly stating that Cryptic will force you to buy T6 in the future. IE, you are setting up fear about a possible future you have soothsayed will happen.
Cryptic does force no one to buy anything. If you wanted, you could still fly your Tier 4 ship, for example. PvE content wouldn't really pose a problem.
But for some reason, you find most people play Tier 5 ships, often even ships that required grinding and/or Zen expenditure for them to get.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Cryptic does force no one to buy anything. If you wanted, you could still fly your Tier 4 ship, for example. PvE content wouldn't really pose a problem.
But for some reason, you find most people play Tier 5 ships, often even ships that required grinding and/or Zen expenditure for them to get.
No one is disputing the difference between want and need; but people should recognize there is a difference between those two states of existence. There is nothing wrong with wanting a T5U or a new T6, or a T6 Intel ship. That is not the same thing as telling people they need to buy it or they cannot play the Content in the game. And it is certainly not the same thing as telling people some imaginary bad thing will happen X years down the road that will force you to buy the ships whether you want them or not. That was the issue being addressed here.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
No one is disputing the difference between want and need; but people should recognize there is a difference between those two states of existence. There is nothing wrong with wanting a T5U or a new T6, or a T6 Intel ship. That is not the same thing as telling people they need to buy it or they cannot play the Content in the game. And it is certainly not the same thing as telling people some imaginary bad thing will happen X years down the road that will force you to buy the ships whether you want them or not. That was the issue being addressed here.
But here is a dumb question.
Cryptic created Tier 5 Retrofits of lower tier ships so there is a viable, competitive and not inherently weaker version of these ships available at Tier 5.
Why bother creating an upgrade system that doesn't do the same? What kind of benefit is there for us players? Is it really just so that they can sell ships for the "New Ship Price"?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Cryptic created Tier 5 Retrofits of lower tier ships so there is a viable, competitive and not inherently weaker version of these ships available at Tier 5.
Why bother creating an upgrade system that doesn't do the same? What kind of benefit is there for us players? Is it really just so that they can sell ships for the "New Ship Price"?
I would argue that not all Fleet-quality ships are of the same caliber even though they have the same number of Boff and Console Slots - and there are thousands of Galaxy Class posts that would seem to agree with that sentiment. So a lower Tier ship made into T5.5 does not guarantee you are getting the ship configuration you wanted even though you love the appearance. I do not see how that is any different in T5U or T6. Some people will be disappointed and some will be happy - just as they currently are with Fleet ships.
I would also argue that T5U ships are equivalent to T6 ships, in regard to Content. The difference seems to be far more dependent upon play-style then mechanics. And yes, some ships like the Intel Class will have new mechanics, but that does not automatically make them X times better. It simply makes them different.
So this is really nothing more then a Want/Need issue compounded with the marketing psychology of 6 being higher then 5 so I must get it.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Comments
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Not to collapse anyone's illusions or anything but calling yourself a star trek fan isn't something to be proud of.
They said the same think about nerd and geek, yet we've become the chic trend that everyone wants to a part of.
The fan flag flies and we salute without shame. Either get on the starship or burned in the plasma venting.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
I had to laugh at this. People who play MMOs largely are the type of people who want the best stuff. To dismiss players wanting the best stuff as having some sort of inappropriate psychological need is to show a marked ignorance of the actual people playing the game. Just try to convince people in any game that second place is just as good. Trying it in an MMO is ridiculous on its face. MMO players will grind for hours to get 1% more powerful. Heck, they'll grind for months for it. Try to change that and you will not succeed. Maybe you're one of those who want to play with free ships and white gear to make the game more challenging. You would be a tiny minority in that case.
You are correct of course that current content is doable with what we have; duh, it's what we have and we do play the game. But new content is coming, and all we have is their word that a t5-U ship will be plenty good enough for the hardest content of it. It's easily within their power to create content that demands you buy a T6 ship; I'll practically guarantee they will do that at some point. PWE does this in all their games; power creep for cash leads to a non-level playing field for pvp, and why not create the same thing in PVE? Of course, what we were really talking about was the canon ships. If you want the best ship, just buy the latest one since in general they keep getting more powerful to convince you to quit using that ship you already paid for to get a better one. But does it have to look like a shark to do that?
They still say that.
It's a little long conversation but the whole geek fan part isn't about being intelligent.
Rather being emo obessing over pointless stuff while having a heart attack in the neck beard chair.
Geek doesn't refer to being good on computers on an ace at math, being smart, rather it's someone being socially awkward or pre-occupied with stupid stuff.
And that's where fan(natic) cross over and you come full circle. Pre-occupied with dumb stuff
The rest of your post is just you babbling on about what you think MMO players motivations are and about your fear-mongering as to what is going to happen X years into the future. It is a game. Enjoy playing it today and stop worrying about what you think is going to happen years down the road. If all the soothsayers had been accurate then STO died 4 years ago. Yet here it is.
I denoted no fear-mongering in my post. Your mention about corporate manipulation is pretty much beside the point. It's not like I changed my toothpaste from Crest to Colgate, when either one is qualitatively equal. In games you have hard numbers to choose which ship is better.
I find that one man's reasoned argument is another man's babble, whine, crying, qq'ing, or any other derogatory term that can be easily used to insult another.
You may not know me. I had thousands of posts on this forum and was in the beta, and had a lifetime sub from before launch. Few of those posts would have been called doom posts even by those who disagreed with me. I have 36 max ranked characters and have flown 95% of all the ships in the game, often with a character of each class. I'll be fine. I'll upgrade some ships, especially my lockbox ships, and will buy some of the tier 6 too. I just want them to look like canon star trek ships. That seems a pretty mild fear-monger.
But lets leave it here. I don't want to argue any more and don't want to have to respond to you again, though I will.
You are clearly stating that Cryptic will force you to buy T6 in the future. IE, you are setting up fear about a possible future you have soothsayed will happen.
Who I am is a consumer of this game and a fan of the franchise. If I feel the ships don't capture the theme of Star Trek enough and look like they came from any other generic looking sci fi game, I will feel it and I will express it. And this is a forum where I can also express those opinions and I will.
I'm not unrealistic.
I accept certain things need to be played with to work in STO. But the IP is a strong one and the only thing really going for this game. It should be harnessed in as many aspects as possible. Visuals being the main one at least. If you didn't see these ships in STO, you would never guess "Star Trek!" which I think is an issue in their design.
That's your opinion, and again, does not actually carry any weight. You are not the creative consult of the IP. You are not one of the conceptual artists of the IP. You are not the creator of the IP. You are the fan. The fan's job in the relationship of fandom is to enjoy the IP. It is not your job to decide what is and is not allowed in it. That is CBS's job. And if they said the ship designs were okay, well tough Tribble ta-tas, looks like Tron lights and hard lines are the new looks of Star Trek. You are free to voice your opinion that you dislike the looks. You are free to say you will not buy the pack and proceed to not buy it. But you have no power to decide what is Star Trek and what is not. This franchise not a kingdom and you are certainly not the Gatekeeper.
If you have a problem with the direction of the franchise and where it's heading, as I stated, take it to Fanfiction. That's where you can pretend you're Gene Roddenberry and say that the Connie is just as powerful as the Oddy and the Iconians don't exist and the evolution of ships stopped at the Defiant to your heart's content. That's where that belongs. But here, on Cryptics forum, under CBS's umbrella, they make the rules. And the new rule is: Star Trek is now neon. That's their word for now.
Again, you hate the designs, tell them. You hate the Intelligence Boff, speak freely. You hate Neelix and the entire Talaxian race, no censorship here.
But if you think you get to decide what is and is not "Star Trek" or dare to decide that people who like the new ships are not "true trek fans" (That last bit is just to cover the other hot topic in this thread, has no personal bearing on you, Carl), you're as entitled and delusional in your position as the Romulan Star Empire.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
It carries enough weight for me. I'll state my opinion, I'll explain it and that's how its gonna be. Just like anyone else is free to do here.
I honestly don't see how they CAN integrate the K'vort, as its just a copy/paste scale up job and lock the wings in the up position.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
There is no such thing as a True Fan. Its an idiotic attempt to present ones self as being better then another for the sole purpose of disenfranchising the others arguments. There is no measuring stick for fandom regardless of what anyone believes.
As for the ships. People should be concerned with the ship designs since they reflect the IP. If someones never watched the shows or movies. They might not know who Picard or La Forge is. But if someone showed them the USS Enterprise or Voyager. Chances are theyll tell you 'Oh thats Star Wars errrrr Star Trek.'.
I dont think anyone here is going to say. Dont design new ships. Because everyone knows that over the course of time Starfleet obviously moved on from designs like the Constitution and Constellation Class ships in favor of newer ship designs.
But at the same time. There are ship designs that Cryptic went with that made you stop and think....Where did that come from? And granted not all of them were bad. I mean the Olympic Class (a canon ship) is one you can point at as being a bit out there comparatively to traditional designs. Sure it has Nacelles and a Secondary Hull. But in place of a saucer you have a globe.
And while theres plenty of people out there that enjoy the design. The DSSVs are oddities amongst its peers. With the Secondary Hull and Deflector Dishes being separated from the Primary Hull and the Nacelles attached to the Primary Hull..And while I dont think its too strange of a ship design. It is out of left field when it comes to the traditional choice of Saucer/SecondaryHull/Nacelle designs that are typical of Starfleet and Star Trek.
The problem with the Intel Ships and possibly future Starfleet Starships isnt the shape or configuration. Its the Tron Lines that have people really concerned. Because its the Tron Lines that indicate a shift in design choices. Because if the Developers are willing to take such liberty with something that drastically different from traditional Starship aesthetics. Whos to say what theyll do with the next batch of ships? If someone who has never watched Star Trek or played a Star Trek game was to see one of these Intel Ships...I doubt theyd be able to make the connection with Star Trek. So its very much something people should be concerned with. Not because they are a true or not so true fan. But because this game carries the Star Trek name. And the Developers should have a responsibility to honor whats come before them. Instead of going with flavor of the week ship designs that will segregate this games Endgame Ships from what is notoriously Traditional Starship designs.
The devs said the intell ship designs are one ofs...like the dyson ships and don't represent a shift in design aesthetics. They said the next batch will not have the torn lines and will be more in line with what we expect from star fleet.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Theyve said a lot of things and theyve gone back on a lot of them. If you want to take them at their word. By all means. But your blissful ignorance isnt enough to shrug off my comments.
Sorry but I play this game for entertainment purposes...I don't get worked up over it. Obviously you have anger towards the makers of this game. If you feel they lie all the time and are destroying the IP...then why do you play?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Why are the Intelligence ships designed like that? The intelligence ships were designed after the modern visual language of stealth jet fighters. Intelligence gathering has always been a gray zone in governments. Sometimes their hands get somewhat dirty to acquire it (intelligence) and for that reason Intel ships have that darker tone. Their plating hints of some alien tech exchange. It has always been strange to me that somehow tech doesnt seem to cross over species in ST. Even on Earth what one product brand does influences the others. Im not saying this will be a trend in STO design, but something to think about as an open minded fan.
When it comes to mechanics these ships were designed to have a minimum energy profile. Nacelles are narrow, yet longer proportionally. Bussard collectors are also minimized for the same purpose, stealth. Design wise the blue Tron lines were done to draw the ship against the darkness of space. Stealth jet fighters barely have windows. Theres simply no need for them. The same was decided for Intel ships, which is why we traded them with the tron lines. It was a gameplay related decision. As you can see one thing leads to another. Dark stealthy ships that need player visibility, but couldnt rely on windows for it.
Any chance for those of us that "arent a fan" of the new variants' Aesthetics- to be able to use the tailor and the old variant skins parts?
just asked my "ship guys" and they tell me that yes, classic variant skins are on their way.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
It also means they don't have to deal with 'Give us a T5 Connie!' threads any more, either. Which is to say, with their own designs, they get to keep full control (or as good as).
Also the T6 Fed cruiser is clearly based on the Galaxy.
My character Tsin'xing
If you're really that cynical about anything and everything Cryptic says about anything, then why post on the forums at all? Clearly nothing they say is to believed, according to you. If that's the case, why listen to anything they say at all?
Can you point me to the post or thread where they said they are stepping away from canon ships?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Also they pay CBS royalties simply because the game is about STAR TREK.
It's not just the ships CBS owns. It's the ENTIRE FRANCHISE. Aliens, ships, Federation, lore, the whole shebang.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
cbs owns the tv shows and other things, that means almost everything trek related. paramount owns the films as far as rights go. they dont own everything trek related
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Cryptic does force no one to buy anything. If you wanted, you could still fly your Tier 4 ship, for example. PvE content wouldn't really pose a problem.
But for some reason, you find most people play Tier 5 ships, often even ships that required grinding and/or Zen expenditure for them to get.
But you can probably do the count yourself, don't need a developer to do the math for you.
However there probably are some canon, none faction future lockbox ships in the expansion flown by npcs.
Personally I don't like it when they go "creative" and decide the romulans are now farmers and all that.
I'd trust the IP over their decisions 100 times out of 100
But here is a dumb question.
Cryptic created Tier 5 Retrofits of lower tier ships so there is a viable, competitive and not inherently weaker version of these ships available at Tier 5.
Why bother creating an upgrade system that doesn't do the same? What kind of benefit is there for us players? Is it really just so that they can sell ships for the "New Ship Price"?
I would also argue that T5U ships are equivalent to T6 ships, in regard to Content. The difference seems to be far more dependent upon play-style then mechanics. And yes, some ships like the Intel Class will have new mechanics, but that does not automatically make them X times better. It simply makes them different.
So this is really nothing more then a Want/Need issue compounded with the marketing psychology of 6 being higher then 5 so I must get it.