You got whole ships for free in LoR. Now you paying out the butt for passive stats?
Isn't it pitiful, budget coding all across the board?
Is like you got ship passives in the rep systems for free for 2 years - okay so 10$ for ship passives, eh?
I might be totally overlooking the sublime point that completely changes how we look at everything but so far everything is lemon face
You got whole ships for free because they were rolling out a new race...it would be in bad form to roll out a new race, Romulan, and then make you pay for those ships.
What we are seeing here with DR is the exact same thing that happened when the cap was pushed up to 50 and again when fleet ships were added.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
i don't know what you think an animation is but most of the feddy ships don't have animations. most of the klink ships don't have animations, and most of the rommy ships don't have animations. that has nothing to do with lor, or delta rising, or fleet ships, or t5u ships. you weren't buying animations when you bought the lor pack and you're not buying animations when you buy the dr pack.
I feel fleet grinding is a chapter on its own with the headline "nothing else to do right now"
One point about fleet ships is getting an entire ship with skin and animations leading back to what I talked about with budget coding before.
All t5u upgrades are strictly budget coding with zero animations and zero skins.
It doesn't get more straight up discount than that.
I will agree fleet gear at least partially falls under that category but is a different comparison than I am making and has lots of things that can be said about it.
Delta Rising however will introduce several new NPC factions that come with their own ships and special abilities. And everyone will experience that, even if they can't use it as player ship.
LOR introduced only the Elachi. The ships you got there were also mostly lower tier ships that you grow out fast (and if you want to use them, retrofits cost money.)
And the LOR story content was mostly Romulan only.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
We do NOT have a complete list of everything we get in DR yet. There could be a free ship/BOff/DOff that has not been promoted yet. Have another drink and loosen up. Pass me a drink also please, kind sir:D
So you are saying the vaule of Dr will be in the amount of different NPCs there are?
That's interesting, I can't say some people won't enjoy the amount of npcs but does it make up for 8 free ships, free outfits etc.
Perhaps not the "value" but certainly the cost, which is what will determine how much gets added. It's certainly not going to be less than Legacy, but Rising may not appear to offer as much at first glance.
So you are saying the vaule of Dr will be in the amount of different NPCs there are?
That's interesting, I can't say some people won't enjoy the amount of npcs but does it make up for 8 free ships, free outfits etc.
as was pointed out many times above most players didn't get 8 free ships. only the rommys got 8 free ships. my andorian didn't get free ships.
what are rommy players, like 20% of the players in the game? how can you compare 20% getting some free stuff with 100% getting new content and all the rest?
isn't the 3rd expansion supposed to be another faction? the cardassians? if that's true then you're going to see more free ships, but they'll only be for a small percent of the players, not for everyone.
i'd rather have free stuff for everyone then free stuff for 1 in 5 players.
I didn't reply to that because I felt it was too weak to even consider.
The value of the work the developers did and what is given away for free isn't relative to you logging in or not.
The part about there might being more story, more lore and higher detailed npcs in exchange for free ships okay I think that's valid.
Probably a lot of people wanting content over ships and would love immersion and lore especially if they liked voyager as a tv-show.
Probably you could bring up voice acting under this category, that they simply put their efforts elsewhere I guess that's a completely valid point.
I didn't reply to that because I felt it was too weak to even consider.
The value of the work the developers did and what is given away for free isn't relative to you logging in or not.
what a stupid thing to say. of course it's relative. if your players aren't using the content then it's a wasted effort. thousands of hours went into making content for 1 in 5 players. how much more would the game have benefited if those thousands of hours had gone into making content for all the players instead? that's what dr is, thousands of hours of work for all the players.
5000 zen is 5000 zen, 60 hours of developer work is 60 hours of developer work.
Won't matter if you log in or not.
You can get a transgender operation, move to mars, join a relgious cult, uninstall the game or win the nobel prize, it makes zero difference what you do.
You can live and you can die those numbers are the same so yeah I chalked it up to "desperate"
and 100,000 players happy is the potential for more sales then 20,000 players happy. the more people you make happy the more money you make for the same amount of work you put into a project.
The comparison is the value or LoR vs the value of Dr...
Now you start talking about strategic intended consumer group or whatever is something completely different.
The amount of free ships, number of animations, number of hours of work, number of zen etc. that LoR was worth is not relative to you playing the game or anyone else playing the game.
The server could be empty and they still put in x number of animations, x number of man hours etc etc.
And I feel in comparison look at the 8 free ships with animations given away for free, vs paying 10$ for passives with no animations in Dr, the new expansion is looking weak.
Ship traits, no animations - copy-paste stats.
Ship upgrade, no animations - copy-paste stats.
Captain leveling abilities, no animations copy-paste stats.
But the guy saying they probably put a lot of work into NPCs, NPC ships and voice acting and what not instead has a point.
It's probably less about ships to an extent even though it's being launched under the parole of t6 ships...
The comparison is the value or LoR vs the value of Dr...
at the end of the day these things are made to make money. the value of the lor pack is that it benefitted 1 in 5 people. the value of dr is that it benefits 5 in 5. from a financial standpoint there's no comparison. no one cares about the free ships in the lor pack because you outlevels them every 3 hours; and you probably ended up buying a c-store version for t5 anyway.
I like this thread. I like to watch canon-looking ships battle other canon looking ships in pve and pvp. That is why I usually use canon looking ships. I think the Cryptic ship designers do an excellent job on the design/look of new ship models (I'm not an apoligist or being ubsequious, it's just an opinion) and I have often wondered why the Star Trek franchise hasn't taken some of the Cryptic designs for inclusion in some of their future movies, series, books ( I've always liked those "technical manual" style Star Trek books) etc. It seems to me that Cryptic designers might be doing some of the Star Trek franchise's work for them and I often wonder if the franchise will capitilize (plagarize/take intellectual property rights ) over some of STO's designs and ideas.
What matters most in STO is not so much the outward appearance of the ships but the INTERNAL workings of a ship; the BOFF, doff, weapons and console layouts. I would be much more likely to pay for an old design with a universal commander and lt. commander boff seating arrangment on the bridge than for a new sleek looking ship with a "stndard" boff and weapon layout. (As long as either layout isn't insane, like 20 console and 10 weapon slots, as an example)
The IP starships have all made it into the game (with a few minor exceptions)... aside from the Norway Class and the New Orleans Class, I can't think of any I'd miss.
I'm fine with all new ships going forward, just so long as they're not as poochie as these new Intel ships. The other original ships that Cryptic has designed have been fine.
Is anyone else concerned about the statement that Cryptic will not be using any further star trek I.P ships for the future expansion of the game?
I for one play star trek online for the I.P, and do not care one iota for cryptics 'efforts' at replicating the star trek classic ship designs.
If they are using the star trek name, logo, franchise and all that it entails, I would be very disapointed if they tried to shoehorn us into using the TRIBBLE aesthetics they have dreamed up as reinterpretations of classic trek ships for T6 and onwards.
And whilst I respect cryptic for creating the game and its contents, I feel it has to be said their ship design leaves ALOT to be desired - it is arrogance at its best, to think they have equaled (or superseded) the classic ship designs of Star Trek.
If you have to nickle and dime me, ok, do it, I will pay because I love star trek.
I draw the line at the imagination of a random cryptic/PWE artist who thinks they know better than the classically trained artist/sculptures who crafted many of the star trek ships.
I know I sound like a pompous TRIBBLE, and I accept it, I am not passionate about most things, but ship design, (particularly STAR TREK ship design, holds a big place in my heart).
Considering they've done the majority of the major ship classes (baring a few of the egregious 'kit bashes used for long shots on the TV screen here and there during DS9's dominion war seasons); what would you suggest they do for newer 25th century ships?
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Is there any particular reason they can't simply design new ships to fit other established silhouettes?
Take the Avenger for example. If the pylons had joined the hull in a different place, there could have been room for a New Orleans costume for it.
A lot of people seem to feel that it's an either/or thing; but it isn't. Cryptic could easily fit in remaining ships, while still making brand new ones. So what if one costume is an ugly kitbash? Some people will like it all the more; and it's not going to put anyone else off so long as there are alternatives. If there were a New Orleans skin for it, the Avenger wouldn't have sold any less; and might have sold a bit more.
I've seen several good looking fan made ships in the Freedom and Challenger configurations, and can easily imagine good looking Niagara variants; just because the original kitbashes themselves aren't great looking in most people's eyes, doesn't mean the configurations they represent are unworthy of inclusion.
am i the only one who saw the guardian cruiser? that ship looks star trek as ****. why isn't anyone talking about that ship.
Because it doesn't fit the 'Doooom everything is gonna be Tron-like...the game is failing the IP" talking points.
nor the comments from debs saying
The T6 Intell ships will have classic skins
more T6 ships are coming that resemble star trek designs (like the guardian)
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Question on that. Why not? I would be thrilled if a concept ship I came up with was rendered in STO and used. I would have a happy smile every time I saw it at ESD. And being unsolicited and given to them, not expect any fees or the like. So what is the issue?
because for every fan who would be thrilled there is someone else who would sue for copyright violation.
am i the only one who saw the guardian cruiser? that ship looks star trek as ****. why isn't anyone talking about that ship.
People are talking about the Guardian. There's a thread about it in the Shipyard section. Thing is though, right now we've just seen concept art; and we know from past experience that this only tells us so much. We really need to see the finished model before we can properly discuss how the Guardian looks.
because for every fan who would be thrilled there is someone else who would sue for copyright violation.
So get permission in writing from the creator. No biggie.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
So get permission in writing from the creator. No biggie.
like someone said back in the thread, just because someone says they created it doesn't mean they did. there was even a guy who tried to slip someone else's ship into the enterprise f content. they can't police everyone or be expected to know all the thousands of ships people have posted to the web. and you don't need to be in the wrong to get sued. if i think the ship you created looks too much like my ship i can sue you for infringement. you and cryptic can spend thousands on a lawyer proving your right, and that means you still lost.
Because it doesn't fit the 'Doooom everything is gonna be Tron-like...the game is failing the IP" talking points.
nor the comments from debs saying
The T6 Intell ships will have classic skins
more T6 ships are coming that resemble star trek designs (like the guardian)
You mean the ship that has nothing more then concept art right now? You mean the ship that at most is nothing more then a Ambassador Class Reskin?
Why would anyone talk about it. It doesnt prove or disprove anything. Its 1 of 4 Fed ships.
You mean the ship that has nothing more then concept art right now? You mean the ship that at most is nothing more then a Ambassador Class Reskin?
Why would anyone talk about it. It doesnt prove or disprove anything. Its 1 of 4 Fed ships.
his point seemed clear to me. the guardian looks like a trek ship, so the people who claim to hate how all the t6 ships look, just pretend it doesn't exist. same with the rommy and klink ships. they look trek too so no one talks about them either when complaining about how cryptic can't make ships.
it's easier to whine like a baby then accept that no one's supposed to like everything. how dare cryptic make a ship i don't like? don't they know i'm super special. my momma told me so. that means they should only make ships i like. TRIBBLE anyone else's opinion.
Someone offered free work and this was Taco's response.
Like it or not, it's how things are done within the society we live in. Payment is our way of making sure you are getting something out of the deal. And in this case, in the case of a job, payment is accompanied by the contract you sign saying you'll follow the rules. Sure, you could eliminate the payment portion of that, but you'd still have to sign the contract.
And the bottom line is, we, as a society, are so ingrained with monetary transactions, that we get suspicious of someone offering to do things for free. It's fine when it's solicited. When I ask someone to do something for free, and they do it, that's great. But when it's unsolicited, when someone we don't know, just pops up out of the woodwork and offers to do a bunch of work for free, we don't trust that person.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Someone offered free work and this was Taco's response.
Like it or not, it's how things are done within the society we live in. Payment is our way of making sure you are getting something out of the deal. And in this case, in the case of a job, payment is accompanied by the contract you sign saying you'll follow the rules. Sure, you could eliminate the payment portion of that, but you'd still have to sign the contract.
And the bottom line is, we, as a society, are so ingrained with monetary transactions, that we get suspicious of someone offering to do things for free. It's fine when it's solicited. When I ask someone to do something for free, and they do it, that's great. But when it's unsolicited, when someone we don't know, just pops up out of the woodwork and offers to do a bunch of work for free, we don't trust that person.
Comments
You got whole ships for free because they were rolling out a new race...it would be in bad form to roll out a new race, Romulan, and then make you pay for those ships.
What we are seeing here with DR is the exact same thing that happened when the cap was pushed up to 50 and again when fleet ships were added.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Ignore shadows, bloom, and weapon fx. at the very least there will always be warp trails so now you have something new to think about
/edit
ps.
point being swap numbers around in notepad txt. (Dr)
ShieldHealth_10
changed to _12, boom that's a year's worth of work hitting backspace twice and typing a few numbers, awesome
vs putting in real work (LoR)
Delta Rising however will introduce several new NPC factions that come with their own ships and special abilities. And everyone will experience that, even if they can't use it as player ship.
LOR introduced only the Elachi. The ships you got there were also mostly lower tier ships that you grow out fast (and if you want to use them, retrofits cost money.)
And the LOR story content was mostly Romulan only.
We do NOT have a complete list of everything we get in DR yet. There could be a free ship/BOff/DOff that has not been promoted yet. Have another drink and loosen up. Pass me a drink also please, kind sir:D
That's interesting, I can't say some people won't enjoy the amount of npcs but does it make up for 8 free ships, free outfits etc.
Perhaps not the "value" but certainly the cost, which is what will determine how much gets added. It's certainly not going to be less than Legacy, but Rising may not appear to offer as much at first glance.
If you really want an apple, an orange won't do, but if you're just hungry, either is good.
what are rommy players, like 20% of the players in the game? how can you compare 20% getting some free stuff with 100% getting new content and all the rest?
isn't the 3rd expansion supposed to be another faction? the cardassians? if that's true then you're going to see more free ships, but they'll only be for a small percent of the players, not for everyone.
i'd rather have free stuff for everyone then free stuff for 1 in 5 players.
The value of the work the developers did and what is given away for free isn't relative to you logging in or not.
The part about there might being more story, more lore and higher detailed npcs in exchange for free ships okay I think that's valid.
Probably a lot of people wanting content over ships and would love immersion and lore especially if they liked voyager as a tv-show.
Probably you could bring up voice acting under this category, that they simply put their efforts elsewhere I guess that's a completely valid point.
Won't matter if you log in or not.
You can get a transgender operation, move to mars, join a relgious cult, uninstall the game or win the nobel prize, it makes zero difference what you do.
You can live and you can die those numbers are the same so yeah I chalked it up to "desperate"
Now you start talking about strategic intended consumer group or whatever is something completely different.
The amount of free ships, number of animations, number of hours of work, number of zen etc. that LoR was worth is not relative to you playing the game or anyone else playing the game.
The server could be empty and they still put in x number of animations, x number of man hours etc etc.
And I feel in comparison look at the 8 free ships with animations given away for free, vs paying 10$ for passives with no animations in Dr, the new expansion is looking weak.
Ship traits, no animations - copy-paste stats.
Ship upgrade, no animations - copy-paste stats.
Captain leveling abilities, no animations copy-paste stats.
But the guy saying they probably put a lot of work into NPCs, NPC ships and voice acting and what not instead has a point.
It's probably less about ships to an extent even though it's being launched under the parole of t6 ships...
What matters most in STO is not so much the outward appearance of the ships but the INTERNAL workings of a ship; the BOFF, doff, weapons and console layouts. I would be much more likely to pay for an old design with a universal commander and lt. commander boff seating arrangment on the bridge than for a new sleek looking ship with a "stndard" boff and weapon layout. (As long as either layout isn't insane, like 20 console and 10 weapon slots, as an example)
I'm fine with all new ships going forward, just so long as they're not as poochie as these new Intel ships. The other original ships that Cryptic has designed have been fine.
Considering they've done the majority of the major ship classes (baring a few of the egregious 'kit bashes used for long shots on the TV screen here and there during DS9's dominion war seasons); what would you suggest they do for newer 25th century ships?
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Take the Avenger for example. If the pylons had joined the hull in a different place, there could have been room for a New Orleans costume for it.
A lot of people seem to feel that it's an either/or thing; but it isn't. Cryptic could easily fit in remaining ships, while still making brand new ones. So what if one costume is an ugly kitbash? Some people will like it all the more; and it's not going to put anyone else off so long as there are alternatives. If there were a New Orleans skin for it, the Avenger wouldn't have sold any less; and might have sold a bit more.
I've seen several good looking fan made ships in the Freedom and Challenger configurations, and can easily imagine good looking Niagara variants; just because the original kitbashes themselves aren't great looking in most people's eyes, doesn't mean the configurations they represent are unworthy of inclusion.
Because it doesn't fit the 'Doooom everything is gonna be Tron-like...the game is failing the IP" talking points.
nor the comments from debs saying
The T6 Intell ships will have classic skins
more T6 ships are coming that resemble star trek designs (like the guardian)
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
because for every fan who would be thrilled there is someone else who would sue for copyright violation.
The Baxial is one of my favourite ships! I wish we had seen more of her in VOY. I hope to see it added to the game, perhaps as a lobi shuttle.
People are talking about the Guardian. There's a thread about it in the Shipyard section. Thing is though, right now we've just seen concept art; and we know from past experience that this only tells us so much. We really need to see the finished model before we can properly discuss how the Guardian looks.
So get permission in writing from the creator. No biggie.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
You mean the ship that has nothing more then concept art right now? You mean the ship that at most is nothing more then a Ambassador Class Reskin?
Why would anyone talk about it. It doesnt prove or disprove anything. Its 1 of 4 Fed ships.
it's easier to whine like a baby then accept that no one's supposed to like everything. how dare cryptic make a ship i don't like? don't they know i'm super special. my momma told me so. that means they should only make ships i like. TRIBBLE anyone else's opinion.
Like it or not, it's how things are done within the society we live in. Payment is our way of making sure you are getting something out of the deal. And in this case, in the case of a job, payment is accompanied by the contract you sign saying you'll follow the rules. Sure, you could eliminate the payment portion of that, but you'd still have to sign the contract.
And the bottom line is, we, as a society, are so ingrained with monetary transactions, that we get suspicious of someone offering to do things for free. It's fine when it's solicited. When I ask someone to do something for free, and they do it, that's great. But when it's unsolicited, when someone we don't know, just pops up out of the woodwork and offers to do a bunch of work for free, we don't trust that person.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Probably because the last we accepted free work, THEY TRIED TO STEAL THE GORRAM ENTERPRISE!
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP