The RSE does still exist. It may be an in-fighting mess with a massive power vacuum, but it still exists. And even if it was gone, as far as the Federation is concerned, the Republic counts because the Feds want to abide by their treaties.
Aennik's last statement on the matter, or that of any level of Fed leadership, was no Fed Cloaks. If you want to say he has changed his mind, prove it. Until you can, no Fed cloaks.
Also, your point about the galaxy having changed - when hasn't it. Not a valid point.
The RSE does still exist. It may be an in-fighting mess with a massive power vacuum, but it still exists. And even if it was gone, as far as the Federation is concerned, the Republic counts because the Feds want to abide by their treaties.
Aennik's last statement on the matter, or that of any level of Fed leadership, was no Fed Cloaks. If you want to say he has changed his mind, prove it. Until you can, no Fed cloaks.
Also, your point about the galaxy having changed - when hasn't it. Not a valid point.
it has. their is no RSE government anymore. just the Tal Shiar, their situation is now more like the maquis. Also Okeg many that order BEFORE war with the KDF. The Republic is a completely new power, they rule from a new planet and with a different style of government. the only thing they share with the old RSE is tech and ships.
At miniium what should happen is this:
1: all fed ships that can cloak should have it integrated not console.
2: Defiant classes have battle cloak since the original had a rommie based cloak.
3: If phase cloak comes in it should be limited to a speciasl zen ship, Pegasus with was a variant of Oberth ment to test bed galaxy tech.
that's the minimum i like to see. maximum is all fed ships with standard cloak.
As I see it, there are three categories of arguments against Starfleet using cloaks.
1. Canon
As has been pointed out, Path to 2409 not only states that the President of the Federation decided to continue the policy, established in the Treaty of Algeron, of prohibiting the development and use of cloaking technology, but actually lays out a diplomatic crisis that led him to make that decision.
This is a weak argument, however, as we have an ongoing storyline. The STO devs could simply invent a reason why, in 2411, the Federation changes policy. Perhaps there's some common threat that the Klingons, Romulans, and Federation all face that can only be countered through the use of cloaking technology, leading the Romulans and Klingons to change their positions on the issue. It's really just a creative writing challenge.
2. Thematics
From the Voyager Technical Manual, on cloaking devices:
'As Gene Roddenberry said, "Our people are explorers -- they don't sneak around".'
On the one hand, this makes intuitive sense. The Kilingons can be sneaky, and the Romulans are all about stealth and subterfuge, but the Federation is all about being open and honest and accepting the risk of vulnerability in order to establish trust.
On the other hand, the quote from Roddenberry is demonstrably false, within ST:TOS and ST:TNG, where he was directly involved in the writing. Starfleet often sneaks around, including in the process of exploration. In many situations, the Prime Directive requires them to hide their presence, and our protagonists have run into problems when they gave away their presence -- as in many episodes when they were studying pre-warp cultures. (Of course, as a writer or a game designer you actually want the protagonists to have problems.)
3. Game Balance and Differentiation
From an STO perspective, I think this is the strongest argument against the Federation using cloaks. The Klingons have cloaks, and the Romulans have better cloaks, and this distinguishes them and encourages some variation in strategy and tactics. Why take that away, and reduce the variation, and the incentive for people to play as Romulans or Klingons?
If Starfleet really needed a cloaked ship for a specific mission, the easiest thing to do would be to ask for help from their Romulan allies. Similarly, if there was a mission for the Federation which hinged on having a cloaked ship, that would encourage a team to make sure there was a Romulan player on the team. That'd be a good thing.
So? Lot's of things change. World politics change all the time. Doesn't instantly invalidate treaties because some people/organizations in the world want to do something prohibited by one of them.
Want it for the Feds? Instead of ******** and moaning for Dev's to put something in game that already exists, lobby them to put it in a Lockbox and distribute to the Feds. They've done that with Plasmonic Leech and many other consoles, why not this one too.
In any case, Feds don't need universal cloaks. Not in their nature and, there is no story in cannon or STO lore to support it. Claiming there is, or should be is irrelevant since it doesn't exist.
Only ships that should have them, are the ones that do. I would of course be in favor of them being built in instead of console though,...
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
It is what happened in one alternate timeline, not what will happen in the prime timeline since every glimpse of the future every character in Star Trek ever got led to a conclusion of said timeline due to changes made in the past based on those experiences.
The prime timeline ends, st the moment, with the end of Star Trek Nemesis. Nothing beyond that is known.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I'm sure if we joined the federation - we'd have to move Starfleet and to Qo'nos.
In the game Star Trek Online, the Treaty of Algeron is no longer in effect as of 2409 due to the destruction of Romulus and the reformation of the Romulan Empire under Empress Sela. The Federation fields three ships with cloaking technology, the Galaxy-class Dreadnought as seen in "All Good Things..." and a retrofit of the Defiant-class, as well as the Avenger class battlecruiser, which is specifically designed to compete with comparable Klingon vessels. -Memory Alpha
I'm sure if we joined the federation - we'd have to move Starfleet and to Qo'nos.
The background information on MA is not correct or at least based on false assumptions.
First and foremost, like repeatedly pointed out in this thread, the treaty of Algeron is still in effect as stated in the "path to 2409" and as long as no character in-game states otherwise, this is the current situation. Second, the person on MA follows the misassumptions that ALL defiants, ALL dreadnaught cruisers and ALL avengers are equipped with cloaking devices, which is not the case. the NPC versions of those ships are not able to cloak, only the player version do and those are uniwue ships in terms of game lore, i.E. there is only one Defiant with a cloak, the one the player uses. If two playable Defiants with a cloak meet it has no impact on the game lore as it is a multiplayer "meta event" - the lore of STO however is tailored to be experienced as a single player game.
EDIT: fixed
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
^A short cloak and immune^ I dont think you want to use something like this for the fed side.
Did not know about that one. In any case, I don't use the cloak on my Defiant either, despite the fact that I have one. They would have to do something damn special with the cloak or build it in to get me to use it. The consoles I have slotted are way more useful than the bonuses provided by the existing cloak.
You know, after reading through what happened with this thread since your reply, I'm starting to believe this as well.
Now I can't shake the feeling that with Ex.2 they're about to give the last, biggest middle finger to what's left of Star Trek in this game.
well, since it seems every fed and their dog is trying to rp an excuse for cloak, the kdf should respond by cancelling the cease-fire. i cannot imagine the kdf would sit on the sidelines and watch feds do something like that and fail to respond.
feddies want their cloak and i have little doubt they are going to get it. let them pay for it with a war and open pvp in the neutral zone.
but of course not. instead i will have no option but to sit by helplessly in my paper-mache bop while feds glide by in a bubble of immunity in their 5/2 loadout, 5 tac console, cloaking 'exploration vessels'.
We DO know that. There has been no story addition to state that your proposed changes, happened. Therefore they haven't.
So? The Federation President has proclaimed the treaty outlawing Fed cloaks will be honored. Until the Dev's put story in to change that, it stands.
So? Lot's of things change. World politics change all the time. Doesn't instantly invalidate treaties because some people/organizations in the world want to do something prohibited by one of them.
Except that he hasn't and the council hasn't. How do I know? No story has been added to any part of STO saying so. Until that time, done deal.
Want it for the Feds? Instead of ******** and moaning for Dev's to put something in game that already exists, lobby them to put it in a Lockbox and distribute to the Feds. They've done that with Plasmonic Leech and many other consoles, why not this one too.
In any case, Feds don't need universal cloaks. Not in their nature and, there is no story in cannon or STO lore to support it. Claiming there is, or should be is irrelevant since it doesn't exist.
Only ships that should have them, are the ones that do. I would of course be in favor of them being built in instead of console though,...
Again Okeg said that BEFORE the war with the KDF and on the info for the fed cloak console says that Starfleet is disregarding the old treaty which by Logic is null and void at this point. When Okeg had said that there was still an offical government for the RSE. with Sela gone there isn't one anymore.
and for game play wise. One word Kerrat. and you forget the key phrase on path to 2409 that is TO 2409 not at 2409 or after.
I agree since in the show they could cloak under combat. but they wanted the rommies to have something special.
Again Okeg said that BEFORE the war with the KDF and on the info for the fed cloak console says that Starfleet is disregarding the old treaty which by Logic is null and void at this point. When Okeg had said that there was still an offical government for the RSE. with Sela gone there isn't one anymore.
and for game play wise. One word Kerrat. and you forget the key phrase on path to 2409 that is TO 2409 not at 2409 or after.
You and others continually repeating the same tired, incorrect mantra, is not a valid refutation of fact or STO cannon. It definitely does not MAKE it cannon.
Once again, there has been no story addition to change what the Federation President said, and no mention of such an addition being contemplated. With the new expansion, I wouldn't expect one either. It would be incongruous and out of place with the rest of the expansion storyline. End of discussion. Until THAT changes, no universal cloak for Feddies, let alone a phasing one.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
You and others continually repeating the same tired, incorrect mantra, is not a valid refutation of fact or STO cannon. It definitely does not MAKE it cannon.
Once again, there has been no story addition to change what the Federation President said, and no mention of such an addition being contemplated. With the new expansion, I wouldn't expect one either. It would be incongruous and out of place with the rest of the expansion storyline. End of discussion. Until THAT changes, no universal cloak for Feddies, let alone a phasing one.
Although he is right. The in-game description of the cloaking device console at least handwaves all lore-controversy away by simply adding the line "in 2409 Starfleet was authorized to develop cloak". To be fair, this is the latest statement within STO regarding the treaty of Algeron. I'm still against it and I do consider it nonsensical, but it's in-game. This information is of course extremely vague, but it's there.
It's a bit sad to see Cryptic tripping over their own lore so much in order to cater to the whining/short term sales :rolleyes:
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
it has. their is no RSE government anymore. just the Tal Shiar, their situation is now more like the maquis. Also Okeg many that order BEFORE war with the KDF. The Republic is a completely new power, they rule from a new planet and with a different style of government. the only thing they share with the old RSE is tech and ships.
At miniium what should happen is this:
1: all fed ships that can cloak should have it integrated not console.
2: Defiant classes have battle cloak since the original had a rommie based cloak.
3: If phase cloak comes in it should be limited to a speciasl zen ship, Pegasus with was a variant of Oberth ment to test bed galaxy tech.
that's the minimum i like to see. maximum is all fed ships with standard cloak.
The RSE still has a government - only Sela was taken by the Iconians. Another war with the Klingons changes nothing, just like it didn't every other time Fed/KDF wars have happened, and even if the RSE was gone, the RR still counts as a Romulan state as far as the Treaty goes, and even more importantly, the Federation agrees to remain bound by said Treaty.
The fact is the Federation should not have any cloaking ships, no matter how much you whine. Roll a KDF or Rom if you want cloaks.
The fact is you have no actual argument, you are just repeating the same old incorrect points.
Yeah about that I've got news for you. That timeline was negated
Hate to break it to you but it was not negated.. it was confirmed. Daniels never says the Sphere builders came do the spheres still being there.. in fact with the Xindi on Enterprise-J confirms the current time line. If the spheres built in Captain Archers time were still around then the Xindi would of been wiped out and couldn't of been in Star Fleet. So that battle in the future has to be from a different incursion so what Daniels says still hold true... So ya the Klingons will be in the future assimulated by the federation lol
Well it does make one think since she played Seska and played many other characters that she would be a prime person for voice overs and such. Since her romulan character T'Rul was never killed off in canon(not counting the part in that book mentioned where dominion killed that romulan lol). Technically if she did some VO's she could do it with some new story line of the romulan republic. If you guys/Cryptic were to say wanting to flesh out the differences in cloak and get the defiant/galaxy x into a battle cloak as well as klingon battle cruisers/raptors it would make an interesting story
Hate to break it to you but it was not negated.. it was confirmed. Daniels never says the Sphere builders came do the spheres still being there.. in fact with the Xindi on Enterprise-J confirms the current time line. If the spheres built in Captain Archers time were still around then the Xindi would of been wiped out and couldn't of been in Star Fleet. So that battle in the future has to be from a different incursion so what Daniels says still hold true... So ya the Klingons will be in the future assimulated by the federation lol
Ok, pretending for the moment that you are 100% right...
To start with, the Battle of Procyon V didn't happen until the 2550's. So going on a rough number, we are looking at about 140 years (going on the in-game 'year' of 2410) before the Klingons join the Federation.
My point from saying that is...
Even if you are right and the Klingons DO join the Federation, it doesn't mean that it is gonna happen in the game, and none of that entire argument justifies giving the Feds more cloaks, period.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Ok, pretending for the moment that you are 100% right...
To start with, the Battle of Procyon V didn't happen until the 2550's. So going on a rough number, we are looking at about 140 years (going on the in-game 'year' of 2410) before the Klingons join the Federation.
My point from saying that is...
Even if you are right and the Klingons DO join the Federation, it doesn't mean that it is gonna happen in the game, and none of that entire argument justifies giving the Feds more cloaks, period.
Well that assuming they just joined before that battle they could of been in the Federation for 120 years prior or more. But think of this way in game terms for Cryptic.
If they merge all 3 powers.. under 1 faction it stops the factions whining. The stupidity that is the NO cloaks do to a pretty much wiped out Romulan empire. The whole point of that treaty was to makes peace between Romulan empire and the Federation.
For a Factions that's about peace and saving lives.. the Feds not having cloak is extreme stupidity. How many times could food and medical supplies been gotten through and civilians pulled out do to cloaked convoys. Cloaked ships scouting hostile factions to keep tabs on threats and being able to confront hostile factions if they try something.
In game terms if just 10% to 25% of the Federation fleet had cloaks it would make sense. It high time they got off the "Starfleet is for exploration" It's not.. not any more. It's the military of the Federation and has been and constant war for the last 50 years. By now any government would be looking at ways to combat ship loss's. Making at least part of the fleet specialized for combat operations.
Personally if they went ahead and made the Klingons join the Federation they would be the primary combat arm of the Federation.
Who knows maybe with this "unknown enemy" in the expansion that can start leaning to the one mega faction. After all they just had there high counsel wiped out. They made peace again with the Federation. This is now the 3rd war with the Federation with no gain and only loss's the "so called" exploration fleet has stalemated them each time they may no longer look at Feds as weak. While the Federation tried of constant war could offer the Klingons a way to be "warriors" under the federation by becoming the primary combat fleet for Star Fleet.
Over all the no cloaks in Star Fleet is stupid and from a old view of Star Fleet and needs to be written out.
Well that assuming they just joined before that battle they could of been in the Federation for 120 years prior or more. But think of this way in game terms for Cryptic.
If they merge all 3 powers.. under 1 faction it stops the factions whining. The stupidity that is the NO cloaks do to a pretty much wiped out Romulan empire. The whole point of that treaty was to makes peace between Romulan empire and the Federation.
For a Factions that's about peace and saving lives.. the Feds not having cloak is extreme stupidity. How many times could food and medical supplies been gotten through and civilians pulled out do to cloaked convoys. Cloaked ships scouting hostile factions to keep tabs on threats and being able to confront hostile factions if they try something.
In game terms if just 10% to 25% of the Federation fleet had cloaks it would make sense. It high time they got off the "Starfleet is for exploration" It's not.. not any more. It's the military of the Federation and has been and constant war for the last 50 years. By now any government would be looking at ways to combat ship loss's. Making at least part of the fleet specialized for combat operations.
Personally if they went ahead and made the Klingons join the Federation they would be the primary combat arm of the Federation.
Who knows maybe with this "unknown enemy" in the expansion that can start leaning to the one mega faction. After all they just had there high counsel wiped out. They made peace again with the Federation. This is now the 3rd war with the Federation with no gain and only loss's the "so called" exploration fleet has stalemated them each time they may no longer look at Feds as weak. While the Federation tried of constant war could offer the Klingons a way to be "warriors" under the federation by becoming the primary combat fleet for Star Fleet.
Over all the no cloaks in Star Fleet is stupid and from a old view of Star Fleet and needs to be written out.
He may have been in the wrong at the time but the Pegasus captain had a point when he made the phase cloak. again the Treaty was there only to ensure peace between the federation and the RSE. The greatest proof of this is All good things. From what we know of the AGT timeline is not too dissimular from the STO timeline All of the okeg defender keep missing the fact that when he made that order there was no war with the KDF and there was still and RSE government. With war with the KDF and the RSE ceasing to be a power and with the Romulan Republic entering the stage the situation is clearly different then when he made that order. Heck the info on the cloak console conferims this. Face it the reason for feds not having cloaks is not there anymore.
None of that has any relevance at all - RSE still exists, and just another Fed/KDF war changes absolutely nothing.
AGT as a timeline does not exist, it was only one of many possible ones, and is no longer possible.
But as you are unable to read an opposing correct view, and keep ignoring the fact the Federation intends to stick to the Treaty, I CBFA to put up with you any more.
Hate to break it to you but it was not negated.. it was confirmed. Daniels never says the Sphere builders came do the spheres still being there.. in fact with the Xindi on Enterprise-J confirms the current time line. If the spheres built in Captain Archers time were still around then the Xindi would of been wiped out and couldn't of been in Star Fleet. So that battle in the future has to be from a different incursion so what Daniels says still hold true... So ya the Klingons will be in the future assimulated by the federation lol
*plugs ears*
I cant hear you! nananananana!
We still live!!!!! Hahahahahahahahaa! We live and we will conquer!!!!! Hahahahahaaha!
-Roach, when asked about Klingon extinction!
Comments
Aennik's last statement on the matter, or that of any level of Fed leadership, was no Fed Cloaks. If you want to say he has changed his mind, prove it. Until you can, no Fed cloaks.
Also, your point about the galaxy having changed - when hasn't it. Not a valid point.
it has. their is no RSE government anymore. just the Tal Shiar, their situation is now more like the maquis. Also Okeg many that order BEFORE war with the KDF. The Republic is a completely new power, they rule from a new planet and with a different style of government. the only thing they share with the old RSE is tech and ships.
At miniium what should happen is this:
1: all fed ships that can cloak should have it integrated not console.
2: Defiant classes have battle cloak since the original had a rommie based cloak.
3: If phase cloak comes in it should be limited to a speciasl zen ship, Pegasus with was a variant of Oberth ment to test bed galaxy tech.
that's the minimum i like to see. maximum is all fed ships with standard cloak.
1. Canon
As has been pointed out, Path to 2409 not only states that the President of the Federation decided to continue the policy, established in the Treaty of Algeron, of prohibiting the development and use of cloaking technology, but actually lays out a diplomatic crisis that led him to make that decision.
This is a weak argument, however, as we have an ongoing storyline. The STO devs could simply invent a reason why, in 2411, the Federation changes policy. Perhaps there's some common threat that the Klingons, Romulans, and Federation all face that can only be countered through the use of cloaking technology, leading the Romulans and Klingons to change their positions on the issue. It's really just a creative writing challenge.
2. Thematics
From the Voyager Technical Manual, on cloaking devices:
'As Gene Roddenberry said, "Our people are explorers -- they don't sneak around".'
On the one hand, this makes intuitive sense. The Kilingons can be sneaky, and the Romulans are all about stealth and subterfuge, but the Federation is all about being open and honest and accepting the risk of vulnerability in order to establish trust.
On the other hand, the quote from Roddenberry is demonstrably false, within ST:TOS and ST:TNG, where he was directly involved in the writing. Starfleet often sneaks around, including in the process of exploration. In many situations, the Prime Directive requires them to hide their presence, and our protagonists have run into problems when they gave away their presence -- as in many episodes when they were studying pre-warp cultures. (Of course, as a writer or a game designer you actually want the protagonists to have problems.)
3. Game Balance and Differentiation
From an STO perspective, I think this is the strongest argument against the Federation using cloaks. The Klingons have cloaks, and the Romulans have better cloaks, and this distinguishes them and encourages some variation in strategy and tactics. Why take that away, and reduce the variation, and the incentive for people to play as Romulans or Klingons?
If Starfleet really needed a cloaked ship for a specific mission, the easiest thing to do would be to ask for help from their Romulan allies. Similarly, if there was a mission for the Federation which hinged on having a cloaked ship, that would encourage a team to make sure there was a Romulan player on the team. That'd be a good thing.
And so should all KDF vessels honestly.
We still live!!!!! Hahahahahahahahaa! We live and we will conquer!!!!! Hahahahahaaha!
-Roach, when asked about Klingon extinction!
We DO know that. There has been no story addition to state that your proposed changes, happened. Therefore they haven't.
So? The Federation President has proclaimed the treaty outlawing Fed cloaks will be honored. Until the Dev's put story in to change that, it stands.
So? Lot's of things change. World politics change all the time. Doesn't instantly invalidate treaties because some people/organizations in the world want to do something prohibited by one of them.
Except that he hasn't and the council hasn't. How do I know? No story has been added to any part of STO saying so. Until that time, done deal.
As to the rest, there already is a "Phased Cloak" in game, http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Molecular_Phase_Inverter it is available from here, http://sto.gamepedia.com/D%27ridthau_Warbird_Battle_Cruiser
Want it for the Feds? Instead of ******** and moaning for Dev's to put something in game that already exists, lobby them to put it in a Lockbox and distribute to the Feds. They've done that with Plasmonic Leech and many other consoles, why not this one too.
In any case, Feds don't need universal cloaks. Not in their nature and, there is no story in cannon or STO lore to support it. Claiming there is, or should be is irrelevant since it doesn't exist.
Only ships that should have them, are the ones that do. I would of course be in favor of them being built in instead of console though,...
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Universal_-_Phase_Shift_Generator
^A short cloak and immune^ I dont think you want to use something like this for the fed side.
In the end the Klingons will surrender.. I mean join the Federations.. So Feds win in the end.
And yes its canon that the Klingons join the Federation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XflgRb2Dxwg time index 1:15
After that cloaks will be part of the federation.
It is what happened in one alternate timeline, not what will happen in the prime timeline since every glimpse of the future every character in Star Trek ever got led to a conclusion of said timeline due to changes made in the past based on those experiences.
The prime timeline ends, st the moment, with the end of Star Trek Nemesis. Nothing beyond that is known.
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I'm sure if we joined the federation - we'd have to move Starfleet and to Qo'nos.
The background information on MA is not correct or at least based on false assumptions.
First and foremost, like repeatedly pointed out in this thread, the treaty of Algeron is still in effect as stated in the "path to 2409" and as long as no character in-game states otherwise, this is the current situation. Second, the person on MA follows the misassumptions that ALL defiants, ALL dreadnaught cruisers and ALL avengers are equipped with cloaking devices, which is not the case. the NPC versions of those ships are not able to cloak, only the player version do and those are uniwue ships in terms of game lore, i.E. there is only one Defiant with a cloak, the one the player uses. If two playable Defiants with a cloak meet it has no impact on the game lore as it is a multiplayer "meta event" - the lore of STO however is tailored to be experienced as a single player game.
EDIT: fixed
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We still live!!!!! Hahahahahahahahaa! We live and we will conquer!!!!! Hahahahahaaha!
-Roach, when asked about Klingon extinction!
Did not know about that one. In any case, I don't use the cloak on my Defiant either, despite the fact that I have one. They would have to do something damn special with the cloak or build it in to get me to use it. The consoles I have slotted are way more useful than the bonuses provided by the existing cloak.
Umm,... Yeeaaah, let me know how that works out for you,... more like the Fed's will surrender to the empire.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Give this to the feds you may aswell shut down the kdf side and give all the feds the kdf ships because they said so
give them this and what reason would anyone join the kdf?
well, since it seems every fed and their dog is trying to rp an excuse for cloak, the kdf should respond by cancelling the cease-fire. i cannot imagine the kdf would sit on the sidelines and watch feds do something like that and fail to respond.
feddies want their cloak and i have little doubt they are going to get it. let them pay for it with a war and open pvp in the neutral zone.
but of course not. instead i will have no option but to sit by helplessly in my paper-mache bop while feds glide by in a bubble of immunity in their 5/2 loadout, 5 tac console, cloaking 'exploration vessels'.
(or i just finally give up and leave).
free jkname
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I agree since in the show they could cloak under combat. but they wanted the rommies to have something special.
Again Okeg said that BEFORE the war with the KDF and on the info for the fed cloak console says that Starfleet is disregarding the old treaty which by Logic is null and void at this point. When Okeg had said that there was still an offical government for the RSE. with Sela gone there isn't one anymore.
and for game play wise. One word Kerrat. and you forget the key phrase on path to 2409 that is TO 2409 not at 2409 or after.
you already got alot of our good consoles anyways would you also like our unique races?
Give it a rest with these wild ideas its no wonder the feds have the game so unbalanced
no way should you get a cloaking device like that.
You and others continually repeating the same tired, incorrect mantra, is not a valid refutation of fact or STO cannon. It definitely does not MAKE it cannon.
Once again, there has been no story addition to change what the Federation President said, and no mention of such an addition being contemplated. With the new expansion, I wouldn't expect one either. It would be incongruous and out of place with the rest of the expansion storyline. End of discussion. Until THAT changes, no universal cloak for Feddies, let alone a phasing one.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Although he is right. The in-game description of the cloaking device console at least handwaves all lore-controversy away by simply adding the line "in 2409 Starfleet was authorized to develop cloak". To be fair, this is the latest statement within STO regarding the treaty of Algeron. I'm still against it and I do consider it nonsensical, but it's in-game. This information is of course extremely vague, but it's there.
It's a bit sad to see Cryptic tripping over their own lore so much in order to cater to the whining/short term sales :rolleyes:
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Well....I am going to get my glass of milk and sit in the corner.
I maybe new.....But Dang...I can stir the pot...:P
The RSE still has a government - only Sela was taken by the Iconians. Another war with the Klingons changes nothing, just like it didn't every other time Fed/KDF wars have happened, and even if the RSE was gone, the RR still counts as a Romulan state as far as the Treaty goes, and even more importantly, the Federation agrees to remain bound by said Treaty.
The fact is the Federation should not have any cloaking ships, no matter how much you whine. Roll a KDF or Rom if you want cloaks.
The fact is you have no actual argument, you are just repeating the same old incorrect points.
Hate to break it to you but it was not negated.. it was confirmed. Daniels never says the Sphere builders came do the spheres still being there.. in fact with the Xindi on Enterprise-J confirms the current time line. If the spheres built in Captain Archers time were still around then the Xindi would of been wiped out and couldn't of been in Star Fleet. So that battle in the future has to be from a different incursion so what Daniels says still hold true... So ya the Klingons will be in the future assimulated by the federation lol
Although he did say that and we got the defiant afterwards I still loved all the defiant episodes
Well it does make one think since she played Seska and played many other characters that she would be a prime person for voice overs and such. Since her romulan character T'Rul was never killed off in canon(not counting the part in that book mentioned where dominion killed that romulan lol). Technically if she did some VO's she could do it with some new story line of the romulan republic. If you guys/Cryptic were to say wanting to flesh out the differences in cloak and get the defiant/galaxy x into a battle cloak as well as klingon battle cruisers/raptors it would make an interesting story
Ok, pretending for the moment that you are 100% right...
To start with, the Battle of Procyon V didn't happen until the 2550's. So going on a rough number, we are looking at about 140 years (going on the in-game 'year' of 2410) before the Klingons join the Federation.
My point from saying that is...
Even if you are right and the Klingons DO join the Federation, it doesn't mean that it is gonna happen in the game, and none of that entire argument justifies giving the Feds more cloaks, period.
Well that assuming they just joined before that battle they could of been in the Federation for 120 years prior or more. But think of this way in game terms for Cryptic.
If they merge all 3 powers.. under 1 faction it stops the factions whining. The stupidity that is the NO cloaks do to a pretty much wiped out Romulan empire. The whole point of that treaty was to makes peace between Romulan empire and the Federation.
For a Factions that's about peace and saving lives.. the Feds not having cloak is extreme stupidity. How many times could food and medical supplies been gotten through and civilians pulled out do to cloaked convoys. Cloaked ships scouting hostile factions to keep tabs on threats and being able to confront hostile factions if they try something.
In game terms if just 10% to 25% of the Federation fleet had cloaks it would make sense. It high time they got off the "Starfleet is for exploration" It's not.. not any more. It's the military of the Federation and has been and constant war for the last 50 years. By now any government would be looking at ways to combat ship loss's. Making at least part of the fleet specialized for combat operations.
Personally if they went ahead and made the Klingons join the Federation they would be the primary combat arm of the Federation.
Who knows maybe with this "unknown enemy" in the expansion that can start leaning to the one mega faction. After all they just had there high counsel wiped out. They made peace again with the Federation. This is now the 3rd war with the Federation with no gain and only loss's the "so called" exploration fleet has stalemated them each time they may no longer look at Feds as weak. While the Federation tried of constant war could offer the Klingons a way to be "warriors" under the federation by becoming the primary combat fleet for Star Fleet.
Over all the no cloaks in Star Fleet is stupid and from a old view of Star Fleet and needs to be written out.
He may have been in the wrong at the time but the Pegasus captain had a point when he made the phase cloak. again the Treaty was there only to ensure peace between the federation and the RSE. The greatest proof of this is All good things. From what we know of the AGT timeline is not too dissimular from the STO timeline All of the okeg defender keep missing the fact that when he made that order there was no war with the KDF and there was still and RSE government. With war with the KDF and the RSE ceasing to be a power and with the Romulan Republic entering the stage the situation is clearly different then when he made that order. Heck the info on the cloak console conferims this. Face it the reason for feds not having cloaks is not there anymore.
AGT as a timeline does not exist, it was only one of many possible ones, and is no longer possible.
But as you are unable to read an opposing correct view, and keep ignoring the fact the Federation intends to stick to the Treaty, I CBFA to put up with you any more.
*plugs ears*
I cant hear you! nananananana!
We still live!!!!! Hahahahahahahahaa! We live and we will conquer!!!!! Hahahahahaaha!
-Roach, when asked about Klingon extinction!