To repeat (slightly) my devil's advocacy from a few pages back....
Do we actually know that there are Federation developed cloaking devices in active use? (Aside from the Pegasus/Kelso situations I mean.) Because if I remember correctly, the Treaty of Algeron only said the Federation could not research and/or develop the technology. Which you would think would preclude using it, but it doesn't. Did the Treaty actually say the Federation can't use cloaking devices?
The original Defiant (Romulan) and replacement Defiant (Klingon) had cloaking devices that were not of Federation manufacture, but gifted or loaned from allied powers. It's possible that Starfleet did a piece by piece scan and copy of either of these and is now manufacturing based on those plans. We don't know the origin of the upgraded Enterprise-D (Galaxy-X)'s cloak, but it's possible that it also came from an outside source.
Also, considering the current political situation, it could also be possible that the cloaks provided to additional Federation ships (the player copies of Defiant, Galaxy-X, etc.) are being provided from a limited supply by the Romulan Republic. The limited nature of the supply might explain why it is only being made available to certain ship classes (or perhaps those ships were specifically designed to have connectors in place for it, etc. Note that in the case of the Defiant class, the cloak can only be used on the Zen-store and Fleet "retrofit" variants, not on the base and refit variants...).
So it's possible that the existing "Federation cloaks" are either Federation-built but not of Federation design... or not Federation-built at all. In either case, it would then be unnecessary to assume that the Federation had (illegally, at least until the legal discontinuity of the RSE, if that has in fact yet occured) researched cloaking technology beyond the date of the known prototype incidents.
The only Defiant class vessel to have ANY cloaking device was the original. The Sao Paulo, renamed Defiant, did NOT have one. No other Defiant class vessel was EVER discussed or seen using a cloaking device once the original with the Romulan loaned one was destroyed by the Breen.
I love how some people try to invent cannon to rationalize their desires as perfectly, though wrongly, legitimate.
The reason you can buy a Defiant in game that has a cloak, is because the original Defiant in the show had one. Same reason you can transfer that cloak to the Galaxy X, because in the alternate future timeline, it had one.
If you hadn't seen those on screen, no Fed ship would have one.
The Treaty of Algeron prohibits the use and development of cloaking technology by the Federation. The loaned Romulan one on the original Defiant was loaned with the specific caveat that it NOT be used in the Alpha quadrant, despite a few instances of it being so used.
While the Romulan Star Empire, a primary signatory to the Treaty of Algeron no longer exists, the Federation President in "The path to 2409" has stated that the Federation will continue to honor it's Treaty obligations and provisions.
This issue is now settled. Fed ships do not need cloaking devices. This coming from a Fed Captain, in a Defiant, that DOES NOT use it's cloak. Many more useful things to stick in a console slot.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Hardly settled. While It's true that in the show the Original Defiant was the only one to be fitted with a cloaking device (and not others, like the Valiant and Sao Paulo), It makes perfect sense within the context of the in-game lore.
While the president may have made a pledge to honor the treaty, the development of the cloaking device console and built-in compatibility with the Avenger class that also came out in 2409 years after said pledge to honor the treaty seems to indicate that the Federation has revised its position assuming the Federation president was being truthful in the first place (wouldn't be the first time the higher-ups in the Federation were less than paragons of virtue) Keep in mind the pledge was only made after The federation was caught using experimental cloaking technology.
The president even gave himself some wiggle room by saying that they might not have to follow the treaty going from a 'strictly legal view'.
Keep in mind that the treaty, and Okeg's later pledge were conciliatory restrictions designed to keep the Romulan Star Empire and the Federation from going at war. They are at war in STO, so the status of the treaty/pledge is very questionable.
The cloaking device might not be the most powerful console, but we already have it available for three ships at the moment, and none of them are Overpowered because of it-so I really don't see much problem with it.
Section 31 is canon and they are super sneaky, so...
So sneaky, in fact, that Starfleet members outside Section 31 try to work against it and consider it counter to the Federation and Starfleet ideals. It even seems going so far that they consider them illegal, after all, they wanted to arrest Sloane.
And as you said in another post - it's not easy being the good guys. That doesn't mean you should stop being good, and just start doing whatever seems convenient.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
So sneaky, in fact, that Starfleet members outside Section 31 try to work against it and consider it counter to the Federation and Starfleet ideals. It even seems going so far that they consider them illegal, after all, they wanted to arrest Sloane.
And as you said in another post - it's not easy being the good guys. That doesn't mean you should stop being good, and just start doing whatever seems convenient.
This here is true. A lot of people seem to confuse S31 and Starfleet Intelligence, and I suppose even STO does that. Starfleet Intelligence is the secret service and it is hinted at that they even work to counter S31 operations. S31 is not even starfleet - it's basically citizens, rogues and vigilantes gone crazy - (un)luckily enjoying protection to a certain degree from UFP and Starfleet officials since there are more than enough xenophobes in high positions as certain occasions throughout Trek show (a good portion of Admirals we see are clearly meant to be a minor villian).
I agree, but it shows how much the Romulans protected their technology, originally. It was sadly dumped, but considering the canon it is highly unlikely Starfleet got a chance to study and reverse engineer the technology. I personally assume that a Romulan operative must have been around in one form or the other, probably ready to destroy the technology when need arose.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Ummm... no hanging plot. Well, not one that is DS9s fault. See, she was recalled to Romulus to be surgically altered to appear as a Cardassian then surgically altered to appear as a Bajoran. She was then inserted into a Marquis cell. The ship she was on was lost in the Badlands. Don't blame DS9, blame Voyager....
Ummm... no hanging plot. Well, not one that is DS9s fault. See, she was recalled to Romulus to be surgically altered to appear as a Cardassian then surgically altered to appear as a Bajoran. She was then inserted into a Marquis cell. The ship she was on was lost in the Badlands. Don't blame DS9, blame Voyager....
But that doesn't explain why the RSE suddenly let the technology in Starfleet's hands, presumably unsupervised.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
This here is true. A lot of people seem to confuse S31 and Starfleet Intelligence, and I suppose even STO does that. Starfleet Intelligence is the secret service and it is hinted at that they even work to counter S31 operations. S31 is not even starfleet - it's basically citizens, rogues and vigilantes gone crazy - (un)luckily enjoying protection to a certain degree from UFP and Starfleet officials since there are more than enough xenophobes in high positions as certain occasions throughout Trek show (a good portion of Admirals we see are clearly meant to be a minor villian).
Very true.
Sadly superficial knowledge always seems to win nowadays...
I agree, but it shows how much the Romulans protected their technology, originally. It was sadly dumped, but considering the canon it is highly unlikely Starfleet got a chance to study and reverse engineer the technology. I personally assume that a Romulan operative must have been around in one form or the other, probably ready to destroy the technology when need arose.
Yeah, i found it strange they could keep the Cloak, after the Romulan officer disappeared.
I think those childish producers simply wanted to have their Mary sue ship even more "badas".
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
My thoughts are that the Federation almost certainly possesses cloaking technology - they developed the Pegasus cloak, and had the cloaking holoship in Insurrection. They were legally unable to use it due to the Treaty of Algeron, and according to The Path to 2409, have decided to adhere to the terms of the treaty now that the Romulan Star Empire is effectively dissolved.
We also don't know what terms the Federation may have come to with the Romulan Republic at Khitomer in the STO mission "Turning Point," nor do we know what the terms of the alliance with the Klingons were following "Surface Tension."
I would have to conclude that any current treaties allow at least limited use of a Federation cloaking device, as seen by the Defiant, Galaxy-X, and Avenger classes.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
No phased cloak please, Riker learned better, lets rely on our ALLIES for superior, more stable cloaks maybe as part of the "tier 6'ing" process? I mean for real, all parties involved with phase cloaking have been left with a not so yummy taste in their mouths.. A good romulan cloak from my needed allies is all I would want on my Oddy to go into the delta quad and kill ahem I mean explore strange new enemies....
I'd be willing to bet they gave the Defiant a older, obsolete cloak (remember that episode with the Romulan science ship disabled by its phase cloak, it needed a replacement computer core, so the Enterprise-D crew fabricated one from a 50-year-old design).
T'Rul wasn't there to protect an ancient cloak design, but to get all got all the intel she could on the Defiant, and then she was out of there.
And Martha Hackett was brilliant in the part, just as she was as Seska on Voyager.
I wish they'd followed up and made her recurring. But, I guess you can only have so much recurring awesome in one show. *COUGH-Combs-Hertzler-Alaimo-O'Reilly-Grodenchik-Eisenberg-Fletcher-COUGH*
No phased cloak please, Riker learned better, lets rely on our ALLIES for superior, more stable cloaks maybe as part of the "tier 6'ing" process? I mean for real, all parties involved with phase cloaking have been left with a not so yummy taste in their mouths.. A good romulan cloak from my needed allies is all I would want on my Oddy to go into the delta quad and kill ahem I mean explore strange new enemies....
the phase cloak was superior to the rommie cloak and it was stable. only the meddling of the Pegasus crew caused the accident.
Keep in mind the political turmoil of the remnants of the RSE and the reformation of the government into a Monarchy by Sela after a civil war, as well as the countless examples of hostilities towards the Romulan citizens that later formed the Republic, would be grounds for the Federation to withdraw from the treaty.
The existence of cloaking technology for established ships currently in STO shows that the FEDs chose to move on and develop cloaking technology for FED ships.
Not all get it obviously because you cannot simply slap a cloaking device on an existing ship with a great deal of success as the Defiant and the Pegasus demonstrate, but some new ships can be designed with a cloaking device phasing or not, as is evident by the Avenger.
At this point, 2410, I don't think the Federation has any advantage by equipping cloaking devices on their ships, when their two main rivals, the KDF and tthe Romulans have had them for as long as they have.
actually I don't think it be that difficult for all existing fed ships to have cloak. E-D manage a phase cloak with little difficultly. The TOS Enterprise the same. The Republic is a completely new government so the treaty is null and void since the Tal Shair are like the old Maquis force now. So unless it was renewed in the treaty with the Republic, doubtful considering the Republics position at the time. and another reason. Kerrat.
Lore aside, do we really want to remove yet another variable that delineates the factions? Do we really want more generic ships?
definitely not.
lets be honest the only reason the defiant class in game has one id because all the ds9 fans would cry like a 15 yr old girl who lost her twilight books if it didn't.
because only one ship had one and it was blown up. it was never shown that the replacement got one.
as for the gal-x same thing though one can say that they all had them because it that future romulans were conquered by klingons there was deff no treaty then(not this republic and fragmented empire we have in game.
lets be honest the only reason the defiant class in game has one id because all the ds9 fans would cry like a 15 yr old girl who lost her twilight books if it didn't.
because only one ship had one and it was blown up. it was never shown that the replacement got one.
as for the gal-x same thing though one can say that they all had them because it that future romulans were conquered by klingons there was deff no treaty then(not this republic and fragmented empire we have in game.
avenger simple= appeasing whiny feds and sales
Not all of us. I fly a Defiant and DON'T use the cloak. Some of us just want the ship. I do understand what you meant though. A lot of fans would cry like little b*tches.
And you're also right, the only Defiant that had a cloak was the original. No other Defiant class was ever shown or discussed to have one. Funny how often people forget that, or more likely ignore it.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
lets be honest the only reason the defiant class in game has one id because all the ds9 fans would cry like a 15 yr old girl who lost her twilight books if it didn't.
because only one ship had one and it was blown up. it was never shown that the replacement got one.
as for the gal-x same thing though one can say that they all had them because it that future romulans were conquered by klingons there was deff no treaty then(not this republic and fragmented empire we have in game.
avenger simple= appeasing whiny feds and sales
But the situation in STo is alot like that alternate future. We do not know the agreement between the feds and the Republic in regards to cloak and the RSE for all tense and purpose no longer exists. There is no logical reason for the feds not to have at least regular cloak.
...snip...
The cloaking device might not be the most powerful console, but we already have it available for three ships at the moment, and none of them are Overpowered because of it-so I really don't see much problem with it.
I have no issue with Fed's keeping the one they have, and even keeping it restricted to the ships that can use it. I am not and never have advocated taking what already exists from people. If anything I think the ships that allow cloaking should be built in, not console. Maybe even upgrade them to regular battle cloaks.
That being said, I do not feel the Federation should issue cloaks to everyone, and definitely not the Enhanced Battle version that allows firing while cloaked.
They don't need it with all of their other advantages and it is definitely not in keeping with the spirit of the Federation.
I am one of those that flies a ship that has the capability to cloak. I rarely if ever use it. The novelty wore off sometime ago. In fact, while my Klingon and Romulan ship both have an Enhanced Battle cloak, and I do use it on them, I do not use it enough to consider it an essential component. I could get by without it.
Then again I do not now, never have and never will be even remotely interested in PvP. Maybe their particular requirements would be different.
...snip...
We do not know the agreement between the feds and the Republic in regards to cloak and the RSE for all tense and purpose no longer exists. There is no logical reason for the feds not to have at least regular cloak.
But we do actually. The Federation President has said, publically that we will honor the treaty of Algeron, that is your "logical reason" for the Feds NOT to have widely available cloaking. Also the phrase is, "for all intents and purposes".
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
I have no issue with Fed's keeping the one they have, and even keeping it restricted to the ships that can use it. I am not and never have advocated taking what already exists from people. If anything I think the ships that allow cloaking should be built in, not console. Maybe even upgrade them to regular battle cloaks.
That being said, I do not feel the Federation should issue cloaks to everyone, and definitely not the Enhanced Battle version that allows firing while cloaked.
They don't need it with all of their other advantages and it is definitely not in keeping with the spirit of the Federation.
I am one of those that flies a ship that has the capability to cloak. I rarely if ever use it. The novelty wore off sometime ago. In fact, while my Klingon and Romulan ship both have an Enhanced Battle cloak, and I do use it on them, I do not use it enough to consider it an essential component. I could get by without it.
Then again I do not now, never have and never will be even remotely interested in PvP. Maybe their particular requirements would be different.
But we do actually. The Federation President has said, publically that we will honor the treaty of Algeron, that is your "logical reason" for the Feds NOT to have widely available cloaking. Also the phrase is, "for all intents and purposes".
By now that pres is out of office and the situation has drastically change since he did that. When he said that the RSE still had a government in Sela and no Republic. With Sela MIA their is no effective government in the RSE anymore. it literally doesn't exist anymore. The Tal Shair may have a few planets, shipyards and stations but no longer a recognized government. The Republic has taken that role and being a different gvernment and different needs will have a different treaty. Also the pres is not a dictator. the Federation Council can override him.
By now that pres is out of office and the situation has drastically change since he did that. When he said that the RSE still had a government in Sela and no Republic. With Sela MIA their is no effective government in the RSE anymore. it literally doesn't exist anymore. The Tal Shair may have a few planets, shipyards and stations but no longer a recognized government. The Republic has taken that role and being a different gvernment and different needs will have a different treaty. Also the pres is not a dictator. the Federation Council can override him.
Aennik Okeg is the current President of the United Federation of Planets.
He was elected in 2392 and succeeds Nan Bacco.
In 2398 he is reelected.
Okeg is reelected in 2405.
In 2409 he is in his third term as President.
The elected term seems to be 6 years so yes he is still President
THat doesn't nullify the other two points. the galaxy situation has changed since he said that which was early in his time in office. and again the council can override him or a judge says he can't do that. again a pres is not a dicator unless they become one.
By now that pres is out of office and the situation has drastically change since he did that.
Irrelevant. Laws, Executive orders, proclamations and pronouncements do not cease to exist just because the President to declared, signed or whatever, leaves office. Not now and not 400 years from now. The result if that happened, would be total and utter chaos and the incoming President could simply undo everything his predecessor did. There would be no continuity. Therefore no true Government in the way we understand them today.
When he said that the RSE still had a government in Sela and no Republic. With Sela MIA their is no effective government in the RSE anymore. it literally doesn't exist anymore. The Tal Shair may have a few planets, shipyards and stations but no longer a recognized government. The Republic has taken that role and being a different gvernment and different needs will have a different treaty. Also the pres is not a dictator. the Federation Council can override him.
Also irrelevant. The council has not overridden him and the treaty has not been re-negotiated. So the declaration that the Federation will continue to abide it's terms, stands. Until such time as the council votes otherwise or the treaty is re-negotiated. Which will take a significant add to the lore and story of STO to do. It would also have to make some sort of sense in the context of the story.
Continuing to argue points, that individually may be valid, that haven't happened and do not exist to justify something you want, doesn't mean they are in fact justified or true.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Irrelevant. Laws, Executive orders, proclamations and pronouncements do not cease to exist just because the President to declared, signed or whatever, leaves office. Not now and not 400 years from now. The result if that happened, would be total and utter chaos and the incoming President could simply undo everything his predecessor did. There would be no continuity. Therefore no true Government in the way we understand them today.
Also irrelevant. The council has not overridden him and the treaty has not been re-negotiated. So the declaration that the Federation will continue to abide it's terms, stands. Until such time as the council votes otherwise or the treaty is re-negotiated. Which will take a significant add to the lore and story of STO to do. It would also have to make some sort of sense in the context of the story.
Continuing to argue points, that individually may be valid, that haven't happened and do not exist to justify something you want, doesn't mean they are in fact justified or true.
Again we do not know that. RSE does not exist. THe galaxy situation has changed. Okeg could have recinded that order. or it could have been overidden by the council. At best this situation is in flux.
Comments
The only Defiant class vessel to have ANY cloaking device was the original. The Sao Paulo, renamed Defiant, did NOT have one. No other Defiant class vessel was EVER discussed or seen using a cloaking device once the original with the Romulan loaned one was destroyed by the Breen.
I love how some people try to invent cannon to rationalize their desires as perfectly, though wrongly, legitimate.
The reason you can buy a Defiant in game that has a cloak, is because the original Defiant in the show had one. Same reason you can transfer that cloak to the Galaxy X, because in the alternate future timeline, it had one.
If you hadn't seen those on screen, no Fed ship would have one.
The Treaty of Algeron prohibits the use and development of cloaking technology by the Federation. The loaned Romulan one on the original Defiant was loaned with the specific caveat that it NOT be used in the Alpha quadrant, despite a few instances of it being so used.
While the Romulan Star Empire, a primary signatory to the Treaty of Algeron no longer exists, the Federation President in "The path to 2409" has stated that the Federation will continue to honor it's Treaty obligations and provisions.
This issue is now settled. Fed ships do not need cloaking devices. This coming from a Fed Captain, in a Defiant, that DOES NOT use it's cloak. Many more useful things to stick in a console slot.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Hardly settled. While It's true that in the show the Original Defiant was the only one to be fitted with a cloaking device (and not others, like the Valiant and Sao Paulo), It makes perfect sense within the context of the in-game lore.
While the president may have made a pledge to honor the treaty, the development of the cloaking device console and built-in compatibility with the Avenger class that also came out in 2409 years after said pledge to honor the treaty seems to indicate that the Federation has revised its position assuming the Federation president was being truthful in the first place (wouldn't be the first time the higher-ups in the Federation were less than paragons of virtue) Keep in mind the pledge was only made after The federation was caught using experimental cloaking technology.
The president even gave himself some wiggle room by saying that they might not have to follow the treaty going from a 'strictly legal view'.
Keep in mind that the treaty, and Okeg's later pledge were conciliatory restrictions designed to keep the Romulan Star Empire and the Federation from going at war. They are at war in STO, so the status of the treaty/pledge is very questionable.
The cloaking device might not be the most powerful console, but we already have it available for three ships at the moment, and none of them are Overpowered because of it-so I really don't see much problem with it.
So sneaky, in fact, that Starfleet members outside Section 31 try to work against it and consider it counter to the Federation and Starfleet ideals. It even seems going so far that they consider them illegal, after all, they wanted to arrest Sloane.
And as you said in another post - it's not easy being the good guys. That doesn't mean you should stop being good, and just start doing whatever seems convenient.
The Defiant's original cloak also left a hanging plot point that I thought it was a shame that DS9 never followed up:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/T%27Rul
This here is true. A lot of people seem to confuse S31 and Starfleet Intelligence, and I suppose even STO does that. Starfleet Intelligence is the secret service and it is hinted at that they even work to counter S31 operations. S31 is not even starfleet - it's basically citizens, rogues and vigilantes gone crazy - (un)luckily enjoying protection to a certain degree from UFP and Starfleet officials since there are more than enough xenophobes in high positions as certain occasions throughout Trek show (a good portion of Admirals we see are clearly meant to be a minor villian).
I agree, but it shows how much the Romulans protected their technology, originally. It was sadly dumped, but considering the canon it is highly unlikely Starfleet got a chance to study and reverse engineer the technology. I personally assume that a Romulan operative must have been around in one form or the other, probably ready to destroy the technology when need arose.
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You know, after reading through what happened with this thread since your reply, I'm starting to believe this as well.
Now I can't shake the feeling that with Ex.2 they're about to give the last, biggest middle finger to what's left of Star Trek in this game.
Ummm... no hanging plot. Well, not one that is DS9s fault. See, she was recalled to Romulus to be surgically altered to appear as a Cardassian then surgically altered to appear as a Bajoran. She was then inserted into a Marquis cell. The ship she was on was lost in the Badlands. Don't blame DS9, blame Voyager....
But that doesn't explain why the RSE suddenly let the technology in Starfleet's hands, presumably unsupervised.
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Sadly superficial knowledge always seems to win nowadays...
Yeah, i found it strange they could keep the Cloak, after the Romulan officer disappeared.
I think those childish producers simply wanted to have their Mary sue ship even more "badas".
Chief O'Brien locked her in a closet in engineering, and forgot to let her out when the breen blew up the ship.
We also don't know what terms the Federation may have come to with the Romulan Republic at Khitomer in the STO mission "Turning Point," nor do we know what the terms of the alliance with the Klingons were following "Surface Tension."
I would have to conclude that any current treaties allow at least limited use of a Federation cloaking device, as seen by the Defiant, Galaxy-X, and Avenger classes.
I'd be willing to bet they gave the Defiant a older, obsolete cloak (remember that episode with the Romulan science ship disabled by its phase cloak, it needed a replacement computer core, so the Enterprise-D crew fabricated one from a 50-year-old design).
T'Rul wasn't there to protect an ancient cloak design, but to get all got all the intel she could on the Defiant, and then she was out of there.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Enterprise_Incident_%28episode%29
Agreed. There was room for some very interesting character development there, it's a shame they never did anything else with her.
I always wondered about her too.
And Martha Hackett was brilliant in the part, just as she was as Seska on Voyager.
I wish they'd followed up and made her recurring. But, I guess you can only have so much recurring awesome in one show. *COUGH-Combs-Hertzler-Alaimo-O'Reilly-Grodenchik-Eisenberg-Fletcher-COUGH*
the phase cloak was superior to the rommie cloak and it was stable. only the meddling of the Pegasus crew caused the accident.
actually I don't think it be that difficult for all existing fed ships to have cloak. E-D manage a phase cloak with little difficultly. The TOS Enterprise the same. The Republic is a completely new government so the treaty is null and void since the Tal Shair are like the old Maquis force now. So unless it was renewed in the treaty with the Republic, doubtful considering the Republics position at the time. and another reason. Kerrat.
definitely not.
lets be honest the only reason the defiant class in game has one id because all the ds9 fans would cry like a 15 yr old girl who lost her twilight books if it didn't.
because only one ship had one and it was blown up. it was never shown that the replacement got one.
as for the gal-x same thing though one can say that they all had them because it that future romulans were conquered by klingons there was deff no treaty then(not this republic and fragmented empire we have in game.
avenger simple= appeasing whiny feds and sales
Not all of us. I fly a Defiant and DON'T use the cloak. Some of us just want the ship. I do understand what you meant though. A lot of fans would cry like little b*tches.
And you're also right, the only Defiant that had a cloak was the original. No other Defiant class was ever shown or discussed to have one. Funny how often people forget that, or more likely ignore it.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
But the situation in STo is alot like that alternate future. We do not know the agreement between the feds and the Republic in regards to cloak and the RSE for all tense and purpose no longer exists. There is no logical reason for the feds not to have at least regular cloak.
I have no issue with Fed's keeping the one they have, and even keeping it restricted to the ships that can use it. I am not and never have advocated taking what already exists from people. If anything I think the ships that allow cloaking should be built in, not console. Maybe even upgrade them to regular battle cloaks.
That being said, I do not feel the Federation should issue cloaks to everyone, and definitely not the Enhanced Battle version that allows firing while cloaked.
They don't need it with all of their other advantages and it is definitely not in keeping with the spirit of the Federation.
I am one of those that flies a ship that has the capability to cloak. I rarely if ever use it. The novelty wore off sometime ago. In fact, while my Klingon and Romulan ship both have an Enhanced Battle cloak, and I do use it on them, I do not use it enough to consider it an essential component. I could get by without it.
Then again I do not now, never have and never will be even remotely interested in PvP. Maybe their particular requirements would be different.
But we do actually. The Federation President has said, publically that we will honor the treaty of Algeron, that is your "logical reason" for the Feds NOT to have widely available cloaking. Also the phrase is, "for all intents and purposes".
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
By now that pres is out of office and the situation has drastically change since he did that. When he said that the RSE still had a government in Sela and no Republic. With Sela MIA their is no effective government in the RSE anymore. it literally doesn't exist anymore. The Tal Shair may have a few planets, shipyards and stations but no longer a recognized government. The Republic has taken that role and being a different gvernment and different needs will have a different treaty. Also the pres is not a dictator. the Federation Council can override him.
Aennik Okeg
Aennik Okeg is the current President of the United Federation of Planets.
He was elected in 2392 and succeeds Nan Bacco.
In 2398 he is reelected.
Okeg is reelected in 2405.
In 2409 he is in his third term as President.
The elected term seems to be 6 years so yes he is still President
THat doesn't nullify the other two points. the galaxy situation has changed since he said that which was early in his time in office. and again the council can override him or a judge says he can't do that. again a pres is not a dicator unless they become one.
Irrelevant. Laws, Executive orders, proclamations and pronouncements do not cease to exist just because the President to declared, signed or whatever, leaves office. Not now and not 400 years from now. The result if that happened, would be total and utter chaos and the incoming President could simply undo everything his predecessor did. There would be no continuity. Therefore no true Government in the way we understand them today.
Also irrelevant. The council has not overridden him and the treaty has not been re-negotiated. So the declaration that the Federation will continue to abide it's terms, stands. Until such time as the council votes otherwise or the treaty is re-negotiated. Which will take a significant add to the lore and story of STO to do. It would also have to make some sort of sense in the context of the story.
Continuing to argue points, that individually may be valid, that haven't happened and do not exist to justify something you want, doesn't mean they are in fact justified or true.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Again we do not know that. RSE does not exist. THe galaxy situation has changed. Okeg could have recinded that order. or it could have been overidden by the council. At best this situation is in flux.