F**k Star Trek, s***w canon!!! Gene Roddenberry was stupid, Berman & Braga were stupid, CBS & Paramount are stupid. I know best how canon should be like and what's logical in a made up sci-fi franchise created and developed by people other than myself, which I never met in my life, because I'm the special little snowflake that knows best. And you all best listen to be and my arguments pulled out of thin air, for I'm the arbiter of all logic and canon in Trek, appointed to that position by yours truly.
WAAAH WAAAAH CRYPTIC, WAAAAAAAH!!!! I NEEDZ BATTLECLOAK!!!111one11!!!
WAAAH canon is stupid, the Federation is stupid, the lore sucks!! WAAAAAHHHH
WAAAAAH we need things that make us go WAAAAAH cloak *sob*
WAAAAHHH Cryptic, I'm gonna' WAAAAAAH, until you can't bare my WAAAAAH any longer and give me what I want! *sob;sob*
WAAAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAHHH
Think I made my point, now I need another few days break from stupid.
your point? I see Kumaris and Scimitards get popped or fail all the time, even while guys in Assault Cruisers, advanced (non MVAE) escorts, and Intrepid subtypes hold their own or do well, contributing to the team in STF or PvP.
Fact is, the bigger the reputation and stat load the ship has, on your side, the more often I've noticed it's run by someone who's minmaxed himself into a corner-max DPS, no survival, for instance, is really really common.
when my Hegh'ta has to toss heals on some tac in a bloat-boat just to keep him out of respawn and it's a consistent thing, it's noticeable.
as is the aggro I draw in Hive Space for healing some 'tard that sacrificed all to be part of the 50k DPS club, but can't handle a single spread of torps without dropping below 50%.
seniority does not equal skill OR understanding of the game's mechanics-it helps, but you have to do something besides Infected Space and farming.
This Thread i`ts not about this and i do not use this ship just for dmg if i`me dead i cant make dmg that is how i run my ship/
The Scimitar have something like Phasing Cloaking Device (Cloaked Barrage)
All of the Federations secret cloaking projects were illegal and when found out the officers involved have been court martialed, the exception being the rogue Section 31 that exists but in what official capacity has not really understood since they regularly break Starfleet laws and regulations to further their own agenda.
The Dominion war ended in 2375 the Klingon Empire was still allied mostly with the Federation until around 2400. It is more than likely that the Klingon intelligence service found out what they wanted to know about the Dominion during that time and from scans of Dominion vessels during the war. Romulans are just sneaky :P and likely have that information as well either through espionage or simply paying some willing Ferengi to take some scans of useful information on DS9.
The United Federation of Planets (abbreviated as UFP and commonly referred to as the Federation) was an interstellar federal republic, composed of planetary governments that agreed to exist semi-autonomously under a single central government based on the principles of universal liberty, rights, and equality, and to share their knowledge and resources in peaceful cooperation and space exploration. (TOS: "Arena", "A Taste of Armageddon"; DS9: "Battle Lines"; VOY: "Innocence"; Star Trek: First Contact)
One of the most powerful interstellar states in known space, it encompassed 8,000 light years and at least a thousand planets. (TOS: "Metamorphosis") The total number of formal members worlds was over one hundred and fifty. (Star Trek: First Contact)
Unlike its imperial rivals, who derived power from a single species subjugating other races, (TOS: "Errand of Mercy"; Star Trek Nemesis; ENT: "United") the Federation's various member worlds joined willingly (TNG: "Attached"; DS9: "Emissary", "Rapture") and were equals in the Federation's democratic society. (DS9: "Paradise Lost"; VOY: "Author, Author") The Federation Starfleet was incorporated to maintain exploratory, scientific, diplomatic, and defense functions. (TOS: "The Cage", "Where No Man Has Gone Before", "Journey to Babel")
At the start of the 24th century, the Federation began an unprecedented period of peaceful exploration of the galaxy, free of major conflicts, as its main adversary of the previous century, the Klingon Empire, was now at peace with it. However, relations with the Romulans remained hostile, albeit at a low, 'cold war' level. There was also a series of local conflicts in the late 2340s, as the Federation came into contact with other militant races such as the Cardassians, the Talarians, the Tholians and the Tzenkethi.
Cloaks are primarily used offensively to gain a tactical advantage and used by aggresive empires such as the Romulans and Klingons. What do peaceful explorers need with cloaks when your sensors/sensor probes can get the information for you from light years away?
*In 2267, the sensors of the USS Enterprise were able to scan out to one parsec (3.26 light years) and give a near instantaneous result. (TOS: "The Enterprise Incident")
*In 2368, the long range sensors aboard the Enterprise-D were able to detect a cubical Borg scout ship with a mass of 2.5 million metric tons, at a range that would take thirty-one hours and seven minutes to traverse at warp factor seven-point-six. (TNG: "I Borg")
PS.. The novel Section 31: Abyss, by David Weddle and Jeffrey Lang, establishes that the holoship was created by Section 31 for the Ba'ku incident, which the organization had engineered and had publicly blamed on Dougherty. The holoship was slated for destruction by Starfleet Command after the incident became public; however, Commander Elias Vaughn and his cabal of Starfleet officers covertly working against Section 31 stole the ship and faked destruction reports, later using it to help undermine various Section 31 operations.
None of that deals with Feds having cloak. Yes cloak can be used offensively. but it can work defensively as well. Note Sisko never had an issue using Defiiant's cloak AT ALL. Any captain that did have an issue with it was solely based on a treaty. They prefered keeping that treaty intac, then the advantage a cloak can give them. By 2410 the treaty no longer matters, the RSE no longer exists as a power and until we see the treaty that recognized the Republic then the feds now have the legal right to use cloaks. END OF STORY.
None of that deals with Feds having cloak. Yes cloak can be used offensively. but it can work defensively as well. Note Sisko never had an issue using Defiiant's cloak AT ALL. Any captain that did have an issue with it was solely based on a treaty. They prefered keeping that treaty intac, then the advantage a cloak can give them. By 2410 the treaty no longer matters, the RSE no longer exists as a power and until we see the treaty that recognized the Republic then the feds now have the legal right to use cloaks. END OF STORY.
Still dragging up debunked points as if they count?
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
it's amusing to read these threads.
FED: WAAAA I want a battle cloak
Klink: WAAAA If the feds get a battle cloak the game is RUINED!!
there is one hard reality: a federation battle cloak will have zero impact on 95% of the players, you know, those who don't PVP.
and to be brutally honest, if you are a rom / kilnk PVPer, maybe you should get better at flying your ship and not rely on the alpha strike surprise attack
it's amusing to read these threads.
FED: WAAAA I want a battle cloak
Klink: WAAAA If the feds get a battle cloak the game is RUINED!!
there is one hard reality: a federation battle cloak will have zero impact on 95% of the players, you know, those who don't PVP.
and to be brutally honest, if you are a rom / kilnk PVPer, maybe you should get better at flying your ship and not rely on the alpha strike surprise attack
it would be very interesting indeed to know the % of player that are still playing a "pure" federation toon... as their main.
it would be very interesting indeed to know the % of player that are still playing a "pure" federation toon... as their main.
Depends on what you consider "pure". I have a more or less "pure" Fed character. I fly a Defiant, use Phasers and Quantums and the only "non-Fed" weapon on it is the KCB. Aside from that, I have a Borg Assimilated Module, Plasmonic Leech console and a Zero Point Energy Conduit console from Romulan Rep. Everything else is Mk XII purple or fleet "Fed".
My Captain is Trill, my bridge crew is Bajoran. We all use Adapted MACO ground gear (armor and shields) and Fleet Phaser rifles.
So, what is your definition of "pure"?
I do not use the cloaking device on my Defiant and am against wholesale allowance of cloaks for Feds. In my opinion, the only ships that should have them, are the ones that already do. If they wanted to integrate them and lose the console fine, but not at the cost of a console slot.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
no I wasn't. I think the current devs could go either way. There's a logical path to having or not having cloaks.
I really doubt that the feds will get a cloak for every ship; as it would be bad gameplay which in STO trumps canon. If we do get a phase cloak it will probably be like the Kar'fi and romulan phased cloak consoles and only last a few seconds.
Well, with all this talk of the Treaty of Algernon and the status of the R.S.E., I wanted to remind all of you that the Devs and such keep better tabs on different aspects of the game than most regular players do. As such, especially pertaining to Roleplay, the Romulan Star Empire has been more-or-less reestablished (fortunately, just before the Undine invasion), albeit with limited recgonition from the Federation. Even then, would not the Romulan Republic, as the "succesor state" be the current "other" in the Treaty?
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace."
This right here in game lore stats the treaty is ended... and yet people argue still.
This also shows a incompetence of Okeg. He signs a executive order to keep the Federation at the disadvantage to maintain "peace" only end up dragging Federation later into war with Klingons. This is almost of repeat of Neville Chamberlain"there will be peace in our time" when all he did is show Brits as weak by appeasing the Germans.
The ability to hide, to camouflage one self is not a offensive ability its defensive. Even when on the offensive its a defensive ability. The whole point is to hide your self from being the target of incoming attacks and is the same for being offense and defense.
As soon as war broke out.. with no treaty the federation would of/should of been gearing its ships for war.. and that means cloaks. 50 years of war and Okeg with his narrow views cost Star Fleet thousands and thousands of lives and ships.
Even if for some idiotic reason feds didn't have the ability to create cloaks they would of by now been able to detect cloaks. They have had ample time to come up easy way to counter it by now. Such as the Dominions ability to track cloaked ships from 2 sectors away and the fact they had the ability to get there hands on Romulan and Klingon cloaks from all the destroyed ships.. The Federation would of been putting resources in to that. Countering the effect of cloaked ships. There for leveling the playing field.
Okeg should be out of office by now.. how many wars had he dragged the Federation in to? Worf and the Romulan ambassador in the shows stated the Federation appears weak and for that reason they are being challenged.
Even Janeway in Voyager talked about the old school captains like Kirk and Sulu were more likely to draw there weapons then current Star Fleet Captains. That eludes to old Star Fleet being more aggressive to keep the peace. That war with the Federation was to risky. Okeg has really destroyed that image.
By now any leader with half a brain would of realized that placating to races that are belligerent and war like just make them more aggressive to you. That the only way to maintain peace is to maintain a combat force that makes the threat of war so dangerous for the attacker that they won't risk it.
Over all the "story reasons" over this controversy is pretty weak. The destruction of the Romulan Empire may have been entertaining... but the effects such as the Federation Treaty about cloaks was not hammered out very well at all. The executive order was a lame copout on the whole cloak no cloak issue. It's a cheap and bad way to get around the cloak controversy.
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace."
This right here in game lore stats the treaty is ended... and yet people argue still.
This also shows a incompetence of Okeg. He signs a executive order to keep the Federation at the disadvantage to maintain "peace" only end up dragging Federation later into war with Klingons. This is almost of repeat of Neville Chamberlain"there will be peace in our time" when all he did is show Brits as weak by appeasing the Germans.
The ability to hide, to camouflage one self is not a offensive ability its defensive. Even when on the offensive its a defensive ability. The whole point is to hide your self from being the target of incoming attacks and is the same for being offense and defense.
As soon as war broke out.. with no treaty the federation would of/should of been gearing its ships for war.. and that means cloaks. 50 years of war and Okeg with his narrow views cost Star Fleet thousands and thousands of lives and ships.
Even if for some idiotic reason feds didn't have the ability to create cloaks they would of by now been able to detect cloaks. They have had ample time to come up easy way to counter it by now. Such as the Dominions ability to track cloaked ships from 2 sectors away and the fact they had the ability to get there hands on Romulan and Klingon cloaks from all the destroyed ships.. The Federation would of been putting resources in to that. Countering the effect of cloaked ships. There for leveling the playing field.
Okeg should be out of office by now.. how many wars had he dragged the Federation in to? Worf and the Romulan ambassador in the shows stated the Federation appears weak and for that reason they are being challenged.
Even Janeway in Voyager talked about the old school captains like Kirk and Sulu were more likely to draw there weapons then current Star Fleet Captains. That eludes to old Star Fleet being more aggressive to keep the peace. That war with the Federation was to risky. Okeg has really destroyed that image.
By now any leader with half a brain would of realized that placating to races that are belligerent and war like just make them more aggressive to you. That the only way to maintain peace is to maintain a combat force that makes the threat of war so dangerous for the attacker that they won't risk it.
Over all the "story reasons" over this controversy is pretty weak. The destruction of the Romulan Empire may have been entertaining... but the effects such as the Federation Treaty about cloaks was not hammered out very well at all. The executive order was a lame copout on the whole cloak no cloak issue. It's a cheap and bad way to get around the cloak controversy.
well said. Heck yes Okeg should be out by now. Even if there isn't a term limit in the fed the fact he led them to war would be enough for him to lose a reelection especially if it no cloak policy was revealed. And with RSE truly gone with only the tal shair left further proves the treaty is NUL and VOID. Thus feds can and should cloak. Even more so with the Romulan Republic around. what does the RR have to trade for assistance? TECHNOLOGY and among them CLOAKS. They can save the best for themselves but they are not in a position to demand the feds not use cloaks.
Wow. Latest argument: The games' own lore is outdated and doesn't apply anymore (rmy1081) and the game lore is just stupid (the others). Can't argue with that
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Okeg was elected a second time in 2398 and a third time in 2405 the Term is 7 years, so his term ends in 2412. At that time a new President may be elected. The Game is currently in 2410. Okeg has said no to the Federation having cloaks. The only cloaks you have are available because it's a game and your Hero ship needs the abilities it had on screen.
The only people who seem dissatisfied with Okeg are the people who want Cloaks.
The Klingons declared War on Starfleet because they didn't want to become weak due to a lack of fighting. I'm pretty sure everyone knows this, there is nothing that Okeg could have done to prevent it.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Okeg was elected a second time in 2398 and a third time in 2405 the Term is 7 years, so his term ends in 2412. At that time a new President may be elected. The Game is currently in 2410. Okeg has said no to the Federation having cloaks. The only cloaks you have are available because it's a game and your Hero ship needs the abilities it had on screen.
The only people who seem dissatisfied with Okeg are the people who want Cloaks.
The Klingons declared War on Starfleet because they didn't want to become weak due to a lack of fighting. I'm pretty sure everyone knows this, there is nothing that Okeg could have done to prevent it.
LoL.. you really think if the players were allowed to vote he would get reelected?
No the KDF declared war because they viewed the Federation as weak.. The Federation has been challenged by every major power in the past 50 years.. this is do to weakness in leadership. If you feel neighbor is strong and if you attacked you would lose your empire you wouldn't risk it. If you felt they were weak and you would have much to gain you would risk it.
If anything the people (the players) fighting would be the most vocal about Okegs lack of leader ship and being spineless when standing up to galactic bullies. Peace through weakness and appeasement never works.. peace through strength is only thing more belligerent factions would respect.
Worf had said this out right that the empire would of never risked attacking the Federation if it didn't view the them (federation) as weak.
As soon as the Dev's or whoever is responsible for that, puts something into the "story" of STO saying that the President of the Federation (whoever it may be at the time) has withdrawn the Federation from the Treaty of Algeron, then you're more than welcome to go all free for all herp-a-derp on cloaking devices for Feddies,... until then, I do believe the STO story, response from Dev's and response from players, even Fed ones, is a resounding NO.
Now that that is settled, can we move on to something more important? It's been like a whole 3 minutes since I read a DOOM comment proclaiming that DR is going to instantly turn all existing ships and gear into flashpaper uselessness,...
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
well said. Heck yes Okeg should be out by now. Even if there isn't a term limit in the fed the fact he led them to war would be enough for him to lose a reelection especially if it no cloak policy was revealed. And with RSE truly gone with only the tal shair left further proves the treaty is NUL and VOID. Thus feds can and should cloak. Even more so with the Romulan Republic around. what does the RR have to trade for assistance? TECHNOLOGY and among them CLOAKS. They can save the best for themselves but they are not in a position to demand the feds not use cloaks.
Still using debunked points. At least they are new for you I suppose.
He was re-elected into his third term during the war - it doesn't surprise me you got this wrong given your inability to deal in facts.
The RSE is not gone - despite how much you wish they were.
The Feds should not cloak - I would list why, but I and others already have done repeatedly.
Yet again, the RR still counts for the Federation's view of the still valid Treaty - so far, you have ignored it every time it is brought up.
They don't need to make demands, the Federation leadership itself forbids Fed-cloaks.
Fed whine. At least coherent, without spelling mistakes and grammatically correct Fed whine.
The Treaty is still valid, you cut the rest of that bit where he covers the Federation's decision to stick to it anyway. Also see USS Kelso and the fallout from it. And once again, another Fed/KDF war changes absolutely nothing.
The game lore only looks stupid to you and others because it means you cannot get Fed cloaks.
And Feds can see through cloaks just fine, as any well made snooping Nebula will attest to.
Still using debunked points. At least they are new for you I suppose.
He was re-elected into his third term during the war - it doesn't surprise me you got this wrong given your inability to deal in facts.
The RSE is not gone - despite how much you wish they were.
The Feds should not cloak - I would list why, but I and others already have done repeatedly.
Yet again, the RR still counts for the Federation's view of the still valid Treaty - so far, you have ignored it every time it is brought up.
They don't need to make demands, the Federation leadership itself forbids Fed-cloaks.
The Treaty is still valid, you cut the rest of that bit where he covers the Federation's decision to stick to it anyway. Also see USS Kelso and the fallout from it. And once again, another Fed/KDF war changes absolutely nothing.
The game lore only looks stupid to you and others because it means you cannot get Fed cloaks.
And Feds can see through cloaks just fine, as any well made snooping Nebula will attest to.
Ok the Treaty is still valid but there is no reason so we can have statement whit the Romulans like we have in the past (DS9 the agreement to place Clocking Deviceon on the Defiant in exchange for all Fed intelligence report on the Dominion).
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace."
this is in GAME lore... even Okeg said that the treaty was ended with Romulus was ended.. so for you "treaty is still valid" groupies the DEV's have already said that the treat has ended. That it's Okegs own views that keep feds from developing cloaks and has NOTHING to do with the Treaty of Algeron.
Okeg appeased the Klingons and to a lesser degree the Romulans.. and the KDF still went to war..
To the KDF he is a great leader.. they can threaten and cry about federation cloaks. They will appease us and so keep the Federation weaker so we can invade later.
No leader would remain in power with the amount of loss's that the Federation has taken, the diplomatic blunders leading to war after war. Then add the total disrespect for his own people when it comes to defense of the Federation by tying the hands of the forces charged with defending the Federation.
Okeg is the Neville Chamberlain of the 24 century.
You keep cutting off the quote, and misplacing emphasis.
The fact is, the Federation still considers the Treaty valid as part of their commitment to peace.
Okeg never appeased either power - the KDF went to war because the Federation refused to act in the face of Undine infiltration of Alpha Quadrant major powers, not over Fed-cloaks.
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace."
this is in GAME lore... even Okeg said that the treaty was ended with Romulus was ended.. so for you "treaty is still valid" groupies the DEV's have already said that the treat has ended. That it's Okegs own views that keep feds from developing cloaks and has NOTHING to do with the Treaty of Algeron.
Okeg appeased the Klingons and to a lesser degree the Romulans.. and the KDF still went to war..
To the KDF he is a great leader.. they can threaten and cry about federation cloaks. They will appease us and so keep the Federation weaker so we can invade later.
No leader would remain in power with the amount of loss's that the Federation has taken, the diplomatic blunders leading to war after war. Then add the total disrespect for his own people when it comes to defense of the Federation by tying the hands of the forces charged with defending the Federation.
Okeg is the Neville Chamberlain of the 24 century.
It took three months for Federation President Aennik Okeg to convince the Romulans and the Klingons to send representatives to a summit to discuss the situation. When the meeting finally began, Okeg made the Federation's position clear. He apologized for the experiments into cloaking technology, and said that he had signed an executive order banning all research into or creation of Federation cloaking technology.
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace."
convenient that you left out the part disputing your claim. :rolleyes:
Ok the Treaty is still valid but there is no reason so we can have statement whit the Romulans like we have in the past (DS9 the agreement to place Clocking Deviceon on the Defiant in exchange for all Fed intelligence report on the Dominion).
And that would be an entirely different issue - that agreement featured a Romulan Officer stationed on the Defiant (dropped very quickly) and that the cloak was for Gamma Quadrant use only, (Which Sisko just ignored) and was almost certainly (see its performance on DS9) a long out of date old model that the RSE saw as scrap.
You keep cutting off the quote, and misplacing emphasis.
The fact is, the Federation still considers the Treaty valid as part of their commitment to peace.
Okeg never appeased either power - the KDF went to war because the Federation refused to act in the face of Undine infiltration of Alpha Quadrant major powers, not over Fed-cloaks.
No it doesn't and you making it up...
If the Treaty was still valid then no executive order would be needed.. only Okeg is saying the federation will not use them. Was not done by a vote but by HIS executive order.
As far as the KDF war.. it was not about the excuse why they went to war. The US and Russia do things that both sides disagree with... but they do not go to war do to mutual destruction. If the Federation was not viewed as weak no war would of happened.
Think for a min. the KDF invades the Gorn do to undine influence all the Feds do is say shame on you.. they didn't send ships to defend the Gorn nor did the feds attack the KDF. The KDF attacks the Federation.. for what? Sending humanitarian aid to the Romulains or condemning there invasions? The Federations didn't send any combat add to anyone.. but the KDF attacks the Federation.. It's wag the dog situation.. set up a political slight so they have a excuse to invade what the Klingons view as a weak non honorable Federation. Why did the Federation look weak... its leadership.. Okeg.
Comments
F**k Star Trek, s***w canon!!! Gene Roddenberry was stupid, Berman & Braga were stupid, CBS & Paramount are stupid.
I know best how canon should be like and what's logical in a made up sci-fi franchise created and developed by people other than myself, which I never met in my life, because I'm the special little snowflake that knows best.
WAAAH WAAAAH CRYPTIC, WAAAAAAAH!!!! I NEEDZ BATTLECLOAK!!!111one11!!!
WAAAH canon is stupid, the Federation is stupid, the lore sucks!! WAAAAAHHHH
WAAAAAH we need things that make us go WAAAAAH cloak *sob*
WAAAAHHH Cryptic, I'm gonna' WAAAAAAH, until you can't bare my WAAAAAH any longer and give me what I want! *sob;sob*
WAAAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAHHH
Think I made my point, now I need another few days break from stupid.
Not enough spelling mistakes, grammar was too good, and you had a coherent point.
Actually, 4/10, you missed out dragging out already debunked ideas repeatedly.
This Thread i`ts not about this and i do not use this ship just for dmg if i`me dead i cant make dmg that is how i run my ship/
The Scimitar have something like Phasing Cloaking Device (Cloaked Barrage)
None of that deals with Feds having cloak. Yes cloak can be used offensively. but it can work defensively as well. Note Sisko never had an issue using Defiiant's cloak AT ALL. Any captain that did have an issue with it was solely based on a treaty. They prefered keeping that treaty intac, then the advantage a cloak can give them. By 2410 the treaty no longer matters, the RSE no longer exists as a power and until we see the treaty that recognized the Republic then the feds now have the legal right to use cloaks. END OF STORY.
Still dragging up debunked points as if they count?
they are not debunked at all
Actually, they are, you just can't accept it.
No They Haven't.
Well, so far you have offered zero evidence beyond your own conjecture.
since this is a game and no actual dev has chimed in either way, this whole thread is conjecture...
You're not counting the devs that wrote The Path to 2409, Volume 16, are you?
it's amusing to read these threads.
FED: WAAAA I want a battle cloak
Klink: WAAAA If the feds get a battle cloak the game is RUINED!!
there is one hard reality: a federation battle cloak will have zero impact on 95% of the players, you know, those who don't PVP.
and to be brutally honest, if you are a rom / kilnk PVPer, maybe you should get better at flying your ship and not rely on the alpha strike surprise attack
it would be very interesting indeed to know the % of player that are still playing a "pure" federation toon... as their main.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
Depends on what you consider "pure". I have a more or less "pure" Fed character. I fly a Defiant, use Phasers and Quantums and the only "non-Fed" weapon on it is the KCB. Aside from that, I have a Borg Assimilated Module, Plasmonic Leech console and a Zero Point Energy Conduit console from Romulan Rep. Everything else is Mk XII purple or fleet "Fed".
My Captain is Trill, my bridge crew is Bajoran. We all use Adapted MACO ground gear (armor and shields) and Fleet Phaser rifles.
So, what is your definition of "pure"?
I do not use the cloaking device on my Defiant and am against wholesale allowance of cloaks for Feds. In my opinion, the only ships that should have them, are the ones that already do. If they wanted to integrate them and lose the console fine, but not at the cost of a console slot.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
no I wasn't. I think the current devs could go either way. There's a logical path to having or not having cloaks.
I really doubt that the feds will get a cloak for every ship; as it would be bad gameplay which in STO trumps canon. If we do get a phase cloak it will probably be like the Kar'fi and romulan phased cloak consoles and only last a few seconds.
It's all my opinion, however.
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace."
This right here in game lore stats the treaty is ended... and yet people argue still.
This also shows a incompetence of Okeg. He signs a executive order to keep the Federation at the disadvantage to maintain "peace" only end up dragging Federation later into war with Klingons. This is almost of repeat of Neville Chamberlain"there will be peace in our time" when all he did is show Brits as weak by appeasing the Germans.
The ability to hide, to camouflage one self is not a offensive ability its defensive. Even when on the offensive its a defensive ability. The whole point is to hide your self from being the target of incoming attacks and is the same for being offense and defense.
As soon as war broke out.. with no treaty the federation would of/should of been gearing its ships for war.. and that means cloaks. 50 years of war and Okeg with his narrow views cost Star Fleet thousands and thousands of lives and ships.
Even if for some idiotic reason feds didn't have the ability to create cloaks they would of by now been able to detect cloaks. They have had ample time to come up easy way to counter it by now. Such as the Dominions ability to track cloaked ships from 2 sectors away and the fact they had the ability to get there hands on Romulan and Klingon cloaks from all the destroyed ships.. The Federation would of been putting resources in to that. Countering the effect of cloaked ships. There for leveling the playing field.
Okeg should be out of office by now.. how many wars had he dragged the Federation in to? Worf and the Romulan ambassador in the shows stated the Federation appears weak and for that reason they are being challenged.
Even Janeway in Voyager talked about the old school captains like Kirk and Sulu were more likely to draw there weapons then current Star Fleet Captains. That eludes to old Star Fleet being more aggressive to keep the peace. That war with the Federation was to risky. Okeg has really destroyed that image.
By now any leader with half a brain would of realized that placating to races that are belligerent and war like just make them more aggressive to you. That the only way to maintain peace is to maintain a combat force that makes the threat of war so dangerous for the attacker that they won't risk it.
Over all the "story reasons" over this controversy is pretty weak. The destruction of the Romulan Empire may have been entertaining... but the effects such as the Federation Treaty about cloaks was not hammered out very well at all. The executive order was a lame copout on the whole cloak no cloak issue. It's a cheap and bad way to get around the cloak controversy.
well said. Heck yes Okeg should be out by now. Even if there isn't a term limit in the fed the fact he led them to war would be enough for him to lose a reelection especially if it no cloak policy was revealed. And with RSE truly gone with only the tal shair left further proves the treaty is NUL and VOID. Thus feds can and should cloak. Even more so with the Romulan Republic around. what does the RR have to trade for assistance? TECHNOLOGY and among them CLOAKS. They can save the best for themselves but they are not in a position to demand the feds not use cloaks.
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The only people who seem dissatisfied with Okeg are the people who want Cloaks.
The Klingons declared War on Starfleet because they didn't want to become weak due to a lack of fighting. I'm pretty sure everyone knows this, there is nothing that Okeg could have done to prevent it.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
LoL.. you really think if the players were allowed to vote he would get reelected?
No the KDF declared war because they viewed the Federation as weak.. The Federation has been challenged by every major power in the past 50 years.. this is do to weakness in leadership. If you feel neighbor is strong and if you attacked you would lose your empire you wouldn't risk it. If you felt they were weak and you would have much to gain you would risk it.
If anything the people (the players) fighting would be the most vocal about Okegs lack of leader ship and being spineless when standing up to galactic bullies. Peace through weakness and appeasement never works.. peace through strength is only thing more belligerent factions would respect.
Worf had said this out right that the empire would of never risked attacking the Federation if it didn't view the them (federation) as weak.
Now that that is settled, can we move on to something more important? It's been like a whole 3 minutes since I read a DOOM comment proclaiming that DR is going to instantly turn all existing ships and gear into flashpaper uselessness,...
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Still using debunked points. At least they are new for you I suppose.
He was re-elected into his third term during the war - it doesn't surprise me you got this wrong given your inability to deal in facts.
The RSE is not gone - despite how much you wish they were.
The Feds should not cloak - I would list why, but I and others already have done repeatedly.
Yet again, the RR still counts for the Federation's view of the still valid Treaty - so far, you have ignored it every time it is brought up.
They don't need to make demands, the Federation leadership itself forbids Fed-cloaks.
The Treaty is still valid, you cut the rest of that bit where he covers the Federation's decision to stick to it anyway. Also see USS Kelso and the fallout from it. And once again, another Fed/KDF war changes absolutely nothing.
The game lore only looks stupid to you and others because it means you cannot get Fed cloaks.
And Feds can see through cloaks just fine, as any well made snooping Nebula will attest to.
Ok the Treaty is still valid but there is no reason so we can have statement whit the Romulans like we have in the past (DS9 the agreement to place Clocking Deviceon on the Defiant in exchange for all Fed intelligence report on the Dominion).
The Path to 2409: Volume 16, Chapter 2
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace."
this is in GAME lore... even Okeg said that the treaty was ended with Romulus was ended.. so for you "treaty is still valid" groupies the DEV's have already said that the treat has ended. That it's Okegs own views that keep feds from developing cloaks and has NOTHING to do with the Treaty of Algeron.
Okeg appeased the Klingons and to a lesser degree the Romulans.. and the KDF still went to war..
To the KDF he is a great leader.. they can threaten and cry about federation cloaks. They will appease us and so keep the Federation weaker so we can invade later.
No leader would remain in power with the amount of loss's that the Federation has taken, the diplomatic blunders leading to war after war. Then add the total disrespect for his own people when it comes to defense of the Federation by tying the hands of the forces charged with defending the Federation.
Okeg is the Neville Chamberlain of the 24 century.
The fact is, the Federation still considers the Treaty valid as part of their commitment to peace.
Okeg never appeased either power - the KDF went to war because the Federation refused to act in the face of Undine infiltration of Alpha Quadrant major powers, not over Fed-cloaks.
the entire quote from The Path to 2409: Volume 16, Chapter 2 is.....
convenient that you left out the part disputing your claim. :rolleyes:
And that would be an entirely different issue - that agreement featured a Romulan Officer stationed on the Defiant (dropped very quickly) and that the cloak was for Gamma Quadrant use only, (Which Sisko just ignored) and was almost certainly (see its performance on DS9) a long out of date old model that the RSE saw as scrap.
No it doesn't and you making it up...
If the Treaty was still valid then no executive order would be needed.. only Okeg is saying the federation will not use them. Was not done by a vote but by HIS executive order.
As far as the KDF war.. it was not about the excuse why they went to war. The US and Russia do things that both sides disagree with... but they do not go to war do to mutual destruction. If the Federation was not viewed as weak no war would of happened.
Think for a min. the KDF invades the Gorn do to undine influence all the Feds do is say shame on you.. they didn't send ships to defend the Gorn nor did the feds attack the KDF. The KDF attacks the Federation.. for what? Sending humanitarian aid to the Romulains or condemning there invasions? The Federations didn't send any combat add to anyone.. but the KDF attacks the Federation.. It's wag the dog situation.. set up a political slight so they have a excuse to invade what the Klingons view as a weak non honorable Federation. Why did the Federation look weak... its leadership.. Okeg.