I really hope many instances of ESD come ... I am worried it will be to many people on one map and hence making it impossible to move around on my poor computer.
Aye. I figured since both UPS and SF Shipyards serve the same purpose, there's no reason they can't use the same station. . .
Now that people are more likely to actually fly around Earth, please tell us the planet is going to get a new texture, cuz' this is just below mediocre:
It is blocky and unrealistic. The colors look unnatural...
Newer ships will be featured prominently, but given the fact that players can fly whatever, I want to include SOME older ships as a nod to that.
Personally I love seeing the older designs, I fear that the new ones are used far too often. I was a bit saddened when my beloved Akira was replaced with an Armitage in the ESD dock
Personally I love seeing the older designs, I fear that the new ones are used far too often. I was a bit saddened when my beloved Akira was replaced with an Armitage in the ESD dock
A balanced compromise would be the best: Star Trek needs its recognizable, iconic "classic" canon ship designs, but STO should ALSO showcase its new models, thereby also transporting the 2409-feeling and pointing out that the game is set 30 years after ST: Nemesis.
So... 50% classic designs (Galaxy, Nebula, Akira, Excelsior etc etc etc) and 50% Cryptic 2409-designs (Avenger, Armitage, Venture, Regent etc etc etc). However, right now it is more like 20% classic, 80% Cryptic :-(
What bugs me most wrt to the new ESD/Sol System map, is that Earth still uses its grainy, unrealistic and plainly ugly old texture (as pointed out 2 post further up)!
But you aren't really responding to my supposition. I didn't ask if my map link indicated all canon shipyards. Of course it's incomplete to canon. That was not my point. Because if canon only were followed, all Starfleet shipyards are seen in the northern hemisphere only. Or related to Luna. I asked, based upon the Drydock offerings seen currently on STO's Earth system map, if shifting some of it to the southern hemisphere - away from the established stations - wouldn't go far to acknowledge other players. While also addressing clutter? Would this not be better for the game?
I wasn't disagreeing. It's plain that starship construction is an intercontinental activity.
There's no reason why there wouldn't be shipyards in the southern hemisphere there's a clear international precedent with shipyards in America, Asia, Europe, and even the Moon. Over Indonesia or Australia...India, they have a burgeoning space program today, a shipyard would be fine acknowledgment...though that is Northern hemisphere still. Johannesburg Shipyards or considering the name, Sao Paolo Shipyards would work nicely.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I really hope many instances of ESD come ... I am worried it will be to many people on one map and hence making it impossible to move around on my poor computer.
A suggestion from some us a few years ago was to acknowledge the international player base more. Since the space map is keeping the Earth model to fly around, it's time to place at least one set of drydocks at the other side of the planet and over the southern hemisphere.
Just northwest of Australia makes sense to me. This would serve to acknowledge Indonesia as well. Does anyone feel this is a bad idea?
You have to understand how orbits work, there would be no way for a station to remain over the southern hemisphere unless it was using some form of thrust to maintain that position.
ESD is supposed to be in a geostationary equatorial orbit, it looks like it's in a higher latitude because the station isn't parallel with the planets surface, the film and television portrayals usually have it oriented with the bottom pointing towards the planet and they give the station pride of place to determine the orientation of the scene.
The main problem with putting all of these other artifacts in the space map is we do not have the room to give it the proper sense of scale. Certainly there are more things in orbit around Earth in the future than just ESD but they would not be visible to each other to the naked eye at the distances involved, something that we can't emulate here. We might be able to afford a few using the planet itself to hide them but there is a limit before it would look ridiculous.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
You have to understand how orbits work, there would be no way for a station to remain over the southern hemisphere unless it was using some form of thrust to maintain that position.
(Side note: Kerbal Space Program has given me a better understanding of orbital mechanics than I've ever received before. There's a demo available for anyone who wants to see what it's like (or buy it and support its development for just $27). :cool:)
If ESD is supposed to by in geosynchronous orbit, then it will be at an altitude of 22,236 miles (35,786 km) above mean sea level so that the orbital period is the same as the rotational period of the earth (approximately 23 hours 56 minutes and 4 seconds). The earth would probably appear very tiny from that altitude (space is mind-bogglingly huge).
A geostationary orbit (an orbit in which the station is "stationary" over a point on the ground) has orbit with 0° inclination from the equator, but since ESD seems to be north of the equator, it may have a non-zero inclination. I don't know what the inclinational limit might be, but probably no higher than 45°, or it wouldn't have the same orbital period as the earth's rotational period.
(Note: I'm not refuting what you're saying, I'm adding to it. :P )
(Side note: Kerbal Space Program has given me a better understanding of orbital mechanics than I've ever received before. There's a demo available for anyone who wants to see what it's like (or buy it and support its development for just $27). :cool:)
If ESD is supposed to by in geosynchronous orbit, then it will be at an altitude of 22,236 miles (35,786 km) above mean sea level so that the orbital period is the same as the rotational period of the earth (approximately 23 hours 56 minutes and 4 seconds). The earth would probably appear very tiny from that altitude (space is mind-bogglingly huge).
A geostationary orbit (an orbit in which the station is "stationary" over a point on the ground) has orbit with 0° inclination from the equator, but since ESD seems to be north of the equator, it may have a non-zero inclination. I don't know what the inclinational limit might be, but probably no higher than 45°, or it wouldn't have the same orbital period as the earth's rotational period.
(Note: I'm not refuting what you're saying, I'm adding to it. :P )
maybe its in an orbit lower than geostationary to support orbital work in those box docks as well as its own needs. if its in motion relative to earth they could schedule transshipments of cargo as the station passes near the dirt side facility. would lower the power requirements if nothing else.
It is supposed to be in synchronous orbit, but this is science fiction we're talking about and one thing we should all know by now is that Star Trek is especially bad at portraying how things are supposed to behave in space. Even in the scenes in the franchise where the station is shown it's orientation never seems to be the same in any number of scenes, so is likely just rearranged for whatever looks most photographically dramatic.
In our case since we are stuck with ships always having to be on a horizontal plane, the Station and objects that we can interact with will need to be set in that same frame of reference, but it is more interesting if not everything is all laid out on one level plane, since the back of the planet is accessible there is no reason why there can't be something of interest placed there to give people a reward for exploring.
That said I will retract my previous remarks about placing objects in a sensible orbit since I just realized the absurdity of that remark considering the context.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Star Trek also has the benefit of advanced technology.
For all we know ESD generates a constant low level inverse warp field, which was effectively dropping an anchor, pinning it to a relative geosynchronous orbit. Or it generates a small amount of thrust to enable it to stay in a lower orbit while remaining geosynchronous. It seems wasteful to us, but when it comes to moving shipbuilding materials up to orbit the trade off could balance out.
Whoever originally envisioned Spacedock's Orbit probably used the ISS' much lower orbit as their basis allowing or Spacedock to be closer to the Earth for the shot. A geosynchronous orbit however is easier for the game's systems to display. As always Star Trek is at the mercy of the medium to display before the science :P
That's good though, if it weren't for that, we wouldn't have gotten the Transporter.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
We are getting off the track with a discussion that would probably be better suited in a different thread.
What might be relevant here is what kind of station or element could be placed over the Indian Ocean that exists in Star Trek canon?
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
We are getting off the track with a discussion that would probably be better suited in a different thread.
What might be relevant here is what kind of station or element could be placed over the Indian Ocean that exists in Star Trek canon?
The Fleet Drydock models - which seem the dominant model for the system map at present - are STO canon. Models which, IMO, are sufficient to the player need to dock larger starships. Per canon, there are offices attached to each individual drydock frame. Even if the STO models don't relate them. A single set of the five drydocks moved from the SF Fleetyards to a point over the Indian Ocean would suit the purpose. No need for additional space station models whatsoever.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
Drydocks still need local warehousing and pressurized workspace which would logically be a station of some sort, not necessarily large enough for an entire ship but large enough for major assemblies.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
The Fleet Drydock models - which seem the dominant model for the system map at present - are STO canon. Models which, IMO, are sufficient to the player need to dock larger starships. Per canon, there are offices attached to each individual drydock frame. Even if the STO models don't relate them. A single set of the five drydocks moved from the SF Fleetyards to a point over the Indian Ocean would suit the purpose. No need for additional space station models whatsoever.
I would rather they move the docks from ESD than from the SF yards,
I am very concerned that ESD will become cluttered, since the argument is to address the emptiness of the map may I suggest the following;
Have a larger dock construction over San Fransisco to the far right of ESD for the San Fransisico Fleet Yards, have a small dock collection in various size TMP docks on the far left of ESD with a SMALL orbital outpost. The TMP docks would hold the NX Enterprise, Ent-A, Ent-B, the stolen B'rel from ST3, a TOS Constitution, (constellation when available) and other classic ships, this would act as the Starfleet Museum. Add these while having a small selection of docks outside the ESD window only.
This would hold the dual purpose of de-cluttering around ESD but having more assets in the map as well as having canon consistency. These assets already exist, it would merely be a matter of placing them appropriately.
Have the old docks come back with some classic ships in them as the starfleet museum!
I'm blown away. Someone give that Taco another set of FANGS, because "Nailed It"! I hope to see more interiors in general redone to this level of detail and jaw dropping awesome. K-7 and in particular. yech.
Keep in mind that my time is skewed a bit, I was two when Star Trek III came out. :rolleyes:
What about Skylab? :cool:
And that's a Star Trek VI pic which was only 5 or so years before the ISS.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Keep in mind that my time is skewed a bit, I was two when Star Trek III came out. :rolleyes:
What about Skylab? :cool:
And that's a Star Trek VI pic which was only 5 or so years before the ISS.
Hahaha, that's no excuse!
I was born a year after Star Trek III came out and I still new the ISS didn't exist back then. :P
The first module of the ISS wasn't launched until 1998. I remember following everything about it on the news at the time, it was such an exciting time for science.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
I was born a year after Star Trek III came out and I still new the ISS didn't exist back then. :P
The first module of the ISS wasn't launched until 1998. I remember following everything about it on the news at the time, it was such an exciting time for science.
DON'T HELP!
I had a memory lapse alright sheesh.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I despise lens flare and disable the effect whenever it's an option. There is something though that looks very wrong with the view of the stars, it doesn't look like a view of the night sky, it's more like looking at a black mat with blobs of colored paint spilled on it, they don't look like stars, they're too big and too dim.
There should be a lot more to see up there than what we can see from the ground.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Ok, so 90% of all Starfleet NPCs have Odyssey Uniforms now, thats nice.
All of the ships from the Interior ESD hologram are now in the exterior space map, they're currently not moving, I'm guessing their flight paths have not been hooked up yet.
Would it be possible for the Ships to get labels, right now they're hard to miss.
Comments
I really hope many instances of ESD come ... I am worried it will be to many people on one map and hence making it impossible to move around on my poor computer.
It is blocky and unrealistic. The colors look unnatural...
Compare:
STOWiki admin.
Personally I love seeing the older designs, I fear that the new ones are used far too often. I was a bit saddened when my beloved Akira was replaced with an Armitage in the ESD dock
A balanced compromise would be the best: Star Trek needs its recognizable, iconic "classic" canon ship designs, but STO should ALSO showcase its new models, thereby also transporting the 2409-feeling and pointing out that the game is set 30 years after ST: Nemesis.
So... 50% classic designs (Galaxy, Nebula, Akira, Excelsior etc etc etc) and 50% Cryptic 2409-designs (Avenger, Armitage, Venture, Regent etc etc etc). However, right now it is more like 20% classic, 80% Cryptic :-(
What bugs me most wrt to the new ESD/Sol System map, is that Earth still uses its grainy, unrealistic and plainly ugly old texture (as pointed out 2 post further up)!
STOWiki admin.
I thought that the one from last year was orbiting Mars?
I thought all of the First Contact Day celebrations were at Utopia Planitia. It's perfectly logical.
I wasn't disagreeing. It's plain that starship construction is an intercontinental activity.
There's no reason why there wouldn't be shipyards in the southern hemisphere there's a clear international precedent with shipyards in America, Asia, Europe, and even the Moon. Over Indonesia or Australia...India, they have a burgeoning space program today, a shipyard would be fine acknowledgment...though that is Northern hemisphere still. Johannesburg Shipyards or considering the name, Sao Paolo Shipyards would work nicely.
I didn't meant that exact station, I meant the station design, my bad.
I think you really just wanted to use the model because we never got to see it from the outside at UPS
I'd like to see some sort of ESD adventure zone.
ESD is supposed to be in a geostationary equatorial orbit, it looks like it's in a higher latitude because the station isn't parallel with the planets surface, the film and television portrayals usually have it oriented with the bottom pointing towards the planet and they give the station pride of place to determine the orientation of the scene.
The main problem with putting all of these other artifacts in the space map is we do not have the room to give it the proper sense of scale. Certainly there are more things in orbit around Earth in the future than just ESD but they would not be visible to each other to the naked eye at the distances involved, something that we can't emulate here. We might be able to afford a few using the planet itself to hide them but there is a limit before it would look ridiculous.
(Side note: Kerbal Space Program has given me a better understanding of orbital mechanics than I've ever received before. There's a demo available for anyone who wants to see what it's like (or buy it and support its development for just $27). :cool:)
If ESD is supposed to by in geosynchronous orbit, then it will be at an altitude of 22,236 miles (35,786 km) above mean sea level so that the orbital period is the same as the rotational period of the earth (approximately 23 hours 56 minutes and 4 seconds). The earth would probably appear very tiny from that altitude (space is mind-bogglingly huge).
A geostationary orbit (an orbit in which the station is "stationary" over a point on the ground) has orbit with 0° inclination from the equator, but since ESD seems to be north of the equator, it may have a non-zero inclination. I don't know what the inclinational limit might be, but probably no higher than 45°, or it wouldn't have the same orbital period as the earth's rotational period.
(Note: I'm not refuting what you're saying, I'm adding to it. :P )
maybe its in an orbit lower than geostationary to support orbital work in those box docks as well as its own needs. if its in motion relative to earth they could schedule transshipments of cargo as the station passes near the dirt side facility. would lower the power requirements if nothing else.
In our case since we are stuck with ships always having to be on a horizontal plane, the Station and objects that we can interact with will need to be set in that same frame of reference, but it is more interesting if not everything is all laid out on one level plane, since the back of the planet is accessible there is no reason why there can't be something of interest placed there to give people a reward for exploring.
That said I will retract my previous remarks about placing objects in a sensible orbit since I just realized the absurdity of that remark considering the context.
For all we know ESD generates a constant low level inverse warp field, which was effectively dropping an anchor, pinning it to a relative geosynchronous orbit. Or it generates a small amount of thrust to enable it to stay in a lower orbit while remaining geosynchronous. It seems wasteful to us, but when it comes to moving shipbuilding materials up to orbit the trade off could balance out.
Whoever originally envisioned Spacedock's Orbit probably used the ISS' much lower orbit as their basis allowing or Spacedock to be closer to the Earth for the shot. A geosynchronous orbit however is easier for the game's systems to display. As always Star Trek is at the mercy of the medium to display before the science :P
That's good though, if it weren't for that, we wouldn't have gotten the Transporter.
What might be relevant here is what kind of station or element could be placed over the Indian Ocean that exists in Star Trek canon?
But how big is it? :P:P:P:P
The Fleet Drydock models - which seem the dominant model for the system map at present - are STO canon. Models which, IMO, are sufficient to the player need to dock larger starships. Per canon, there are offices attached to each individual drydock frame. Even if the STO models don't relate them. A single set of the five drydocks moved from the SF Fleetyards to a point over the Indian Ocean would suit the purpose. No need for additional space station models whatsoever.
I would rather they move the docks from ESD than from the SF yards,
But what they could do is;
Have the old docks come back with some classic ships in them as the starfleet museum!
no.
I'm blown away. Someone give that Taco another set of FANGS, because "Nailed It"! I hope to see more interiors in general redone to this level of detail and jaw dropping awesome. K-7 and in particular. yech.
Hahahaha oops.
Keep in mind that my time is skewed a bit, I was two when Star Trek III came out. :rolleyes:
What about Skylab?
And that's a Star Trek VI pic which was only 5 or so years before the ISS.
Hahaha, that's no excuse!
I was born a year after Star Trek III came out and I still new the ISS didn't exist back then. :P
The first module of the ISS wasn't launched until 1998. I remember following everything about it on the news at the time, it was such an exciting time for science.
DON'T HELP!
I had a memory lapse alright sheesh.
Hahaha, someone has been drinking too much of that Romulan Ale he has stashed away. :P
Feels kinda empty and a lot of lensflare when lensflare is on.
I just looked up to the sky and it looks quite different. Maybe some more stars for the Sol System, it looks dull without them.
There should be a lot more to see up there than what we can see from the ground.
Edit: I saw today's patch notes right after posting here http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=16360311#post16360311
LoL I must be psychic or something.
All of the ships from the Interior ESD hologram are now in the exterior space map, they're currently not moving, I'm guessing their flight paths have not been hooked up yet.
Would it be possible for the Ships to get labels, right now they're hard to miss.
TOS K-7 or go home.
(Complete with K-7 style waitresses? Based devs please!)